Jeremy, I understand the value in making GG read only however we have not done this with the GG Dev forum and it has not caused too many issues, yes the users are more involved and limited compared to the greater group.
However, I would like to suggest *only making it read only in the long run if necessary*, because in part; I discovered the other day, some sites, editions or macro plugin developers use URLs that reference a GG Discussion as the way to contact them, if there is a bug or issue with their published content. If we make the forum read only people will no longer be able to contact them, perhaps unless we provide guidance so they can message the author of the post or a replier on the read only forum. Of course authors could add a reply now advising users of a new discussion location in discourse but may not have the opportunity to do so before it goes read only. Regards Tones On Thursday, 26 August 2021 at 02:51:43 UTC+10 Jeremy Ruston wrote: > > Hi Ed > > Apologies, I'm taking a short holiday break, but wanted to jump in to > reassure you (and others) of a few points: > > a) talk.tiddlywiki.org is an experiment for the moment, but my hope is > that we will migrate all of our Google Groups to the new service (and set > the old groups to "read-only" so that they will continue to be available as > an archive) > > b) the idea of migrating from Google Groups has been floating around for > many years, but I've always been very cautious about. A great friend of > TiddlyWiki called Boris Mann kindly offered to help get us set up on the > new platform, an offer which was meaningful because he already runs several > other instances of Discourse > > c) It has to be an experiment because we want to bring everyone with us to > the new platform. There's been a lot of great feedback about what people > like about the new forum, and what they struggle with. The volunteers are > working hard to tweak the system to suit everyone > > d) My own experience is that Discourse is superior to Google Groups in > almost every way, but I don't underestimate the friction of making the > change > > Lastly, thank you for sharing your situation with us. Your perspective is > inspiring, and there's a lot for us to learn about inclusivity. In the > software development industry a certain amount of lip service is paid to > accommodating users with visual, auditory or motor difficulties, but very > little to cognitive impairment. I suffered from some of it when my long > COVID was at its worst, which certainly left me thinking that these > considerations would only increase in importance. > > Best wishes > > Jeremy > > > > On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 12:18:33 PM UTC+1 barro...@gmail.com > wrote: > >> Someone say herding cats? Let me testify, just like with walking into >> Mordor, you don't just herd cats. You lead them. And if they don't feel >> like following, it probably won't be happening... >> >> Yes, I know I'm no help... >> >> Will Discourse threads be indexed by Google in general? I'm sure a few >> people (myself included) depend on the ease of being able to find TW info >> from this group (as well as TW official static pages) on normal Google web >> search results (I believe TW Reddit content also will come up in web >> searches) >> On Tuesday, August 24, 2021 at 11:14:09 PM UTC-4 eddi...@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> [image: My Brain.jpg] >>> >>> Thank You! I do have trouble communicating my thoughts clearly and keep >>> this photo on my phone when I run into situations where I think I may need >>> to explain why (they do this yearly and there has been no change in the 3/4 >>> inch diameter hole in a very big head LOL). I am not looking for pity but >>> hoping to help make your point. We are all using TiddlyWiki with our own >>> understanding and skills. You are also absolutely right, the condensed >>> updates are as much or more than I can handle personally as is (you guys >>> are way too busy!) LOL. I keep up with these just to make sure what few >>> plugins I use are not known or expected to break as TW evolves. Also, I >>> think it is important that Jeremy has a say in which he wants to use. >>> Realizing of course the real discussion is happening in GIT but all of that >>> is way over my head now anyway. Still his announcements about new features >>> and explanations on how to use those when questions come up here as well as >>> the base TiddlyWiki without addons or plugins (or at least as minimal a set >>> as possible) have been extremely helpful to me. So where he goes I need to >>> go because he knows when he adds new features he needs to make the >>> explanations and use of them as intuitive and user friendly (there's an old >>> term!) as possible and most likely with those explanations in mind. >>> TiddlyWiki itself is the best example that I can think of due to its >>> simplicity in a way. It has amazing capabilities but an ease of use >>> unparalleled by programs that have almost none of the customization >>> capabilities allowing it to be used as needed. I have seen efforts to write >>> books and manuals fail not due to a lack of effort, knowledge, or ability >>> but a lack of being able to keep up with the pace TW5 evolves which is an >>> amazing example of how much work Jeremy and those who help him have >>> put into this over the years! To me this group does represent a record of >>> all that effort and progress he might prefer continues here? >>> >>> But not trying to argue for or against with anyone. LOL I know longer >>> have those skills either (happily). I am Just trying to keep up, which is >>> probably a fool's errand anyway but, also offer a reminder that unless >>> there is a fork planned I personally feel no one should just take the >>> community he has built here and put it over there without him at least >>> being a part of that decision. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 10:20 PM strikke...@gmail.com < >>> strikke...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Tony, >>>> Ed did not complain. He would not like to miss totally out on the group >>>> and is afraid that will happen! Explained that his need was to receive >>>> email summary as that is the only way it would be possible for him to >>>> enjoy >>>> the part possible for him to use. The question was not about the reasoning >>>> for some to want the move - but: "Will I be able to receive email summary >>>> from this new group - and if so, can someone help me get it set up?" >>>> >>>> Just as when you asked for a couple of days, why you were not able to >>>> login and get writing in the new group - and asked repeatedly to get help >>>> from moderators to be able to write to the group. (Sure easy to sign up - >>>> you now write). Other people have other problems, and not everyone has all >>>> of your expertise in using all sorts of groups at a professional level. >>>> >>>> As a promoter for the move and now a leader in the new group prepare >>>> for questions like this - and be happy when they are asked. This group is >>>> large and lots of users have used it for years - but have special needs to >>>> be able to do so. If questions like this is not met with answers - those >>>> users will just be sorry and give up without telling you - and have lost >>>> yet another thing in life. Please remember that someone's gain is often >>>> happening while others loose out. >>>> >>>> We know that quite some users of this group -found ways to keep using >>>> Tiddlywiki and this group. And at. some point explained their special >>>> needs >>>> and why they needed a solution. Poor eyesight or blindness has been one of >>>> them. >>>> >>>> I would think that promoting the discourse group - why not make it >>>> clear - can you use the group directly from receiving emails - emails >>>> summary. Can you use the group fully if your only way of being able is >>>> using a screen reader? >>>> >>>> Others have written earlier about having difficulty with busy screens, >>>> moving parts - and lot of colour - lots of changing screens with shifting >>>> layouts - and even more I cannot remember now. Explain how to use it for >>>> those - if possible. >>>> >>>> If people with special needs are not in the target group for the the >>>> new group - save time and explain why. >>>> >>>> Please think about it - and ask people to explain their problems - and >>>> try to find solutions. Use those points in the promotion. Plenty of >>>> telling it is beautiful, easy, what some wants etc. I think most have read >>>> that by now. >>>> >>>> And the questions have to be asked before your wished making this group >>>> read only - because afterwards - you will never know. >>>> >>>> Who *IS* in the Target group for the new group? And then list the >>>> promoting points - ALL of them. Show that list clearly in both groups. >>>> >>>> Please - I did not in anyway want to offend anyone - but we are not all >>>> the same. >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, August 24, 2021 at 1:46:44 AM UTC+2 TW Tones wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ed, >>>>> >>>>> Many of us who are deeply imbedded and active in Google Groups have >>>>> good reasons and arguments to move. Apart from the fact you can't even >>>>> reply on a mobile, mark code in a forum post and more Discourse solves a >>>>> range of problems and issues that I expect you do not experience every >>>>> day. >>>>> >>>>> We can't rely on Google any more and moving to talk.tiddlywiki.org >>>>> puts control into the communities hands. In many ways "a move" if not >>>>> "this >>>>> move" has being on the cards for years, however getting consensus from >>>>> the >>>>> community is like herding cats. To put this decision on Jeremy alone is >>>>> also asking too much. >>>>> >>>>> I know change can be difficult but as always the community is here to >>>>> help, and from what I have seen Discourse offers everything and more than >>>>> GG. So I am confident we can restore the functionality you want. >>>>> >>>>> Please continue to raise issues but also let the community help you >>>>> transition or solve the problems you experience, or even ultimately >>>>> change >>>>> our minds because of your experience. >>>>> >>>>> If you did not see yet, signing up at talk.tiddlywiki.org with your >>>>> google login is possibly the easiest entry to the new system. >>>>> >>>>> Yours sincerely >>>>> Tony >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, 24 August 2021 at 01:15:03 UTC+10 eddi...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>> >>>>>> Unless Jeremy plans to do the same sorry but no thanks and even then >>>>>> probably not. Other than it being a perhaps more feature rich, and newer >>>>>> platform is there really a burning need to make this switch now? I know >>>>>> its >>>>>> been debated here for a long time and have read the arguments both for >>>>>> and >>>>>> against but this sounds as though it is being forced upon us regardless >>>>>> of >>>>>> Jeremys reluctance to do so for some reason. Maybe google has announced >>>>>> it >>>>>> is killing off groups, Jeremy has decided it is for the best, or >>>>>> something >>>>>> else I am unaware of? (very possible I suffer from brain damage and am >>>>>> no >>>>>> longer really in the know anymore, but do rely on getting these emails >>>>>> to >>>>>> try and stay up on developments with TiddlyWiki and the plugin work >>>>>> being >>>>>> done). I can still use TiddlyWiki to great advantage but no longer have >>>>>> the >>>>>> ability to write plugins or do many things I used to do before. Anything >>>>>> new is pretty much impossible for me to learn. Will discourse offer >>>>>> these >>>>>> email updates like the one I am responding to here and will those of us >>>>>> who >>>>>> choose not to join discourse (my mind is unable to learn new things) be >>>>>> registered to receive those if this is done or will I need to register >>>>>> my >>>>>> email address in their site in order to keep these condensed emails >>>>>> coming >>>>>> to me? I also feel there is a wealth of historical information in this >>>>>> group that would be a shame if not transferred over (perhaps it has?) >>>>>> Anyway, I hope replying to "all" is the proper way to ask. If not I do >>>>>> apologize. Also, I am not being critical of this change just explaining >>>>>> my >>>>>> inability to do this and feel it is pointless unless Jeremy wants to >>>>>> make >>>>>> this change as well. If so I guess this group can still stand as an >>>>>> archive >>>>>> of all the history and work that has been done to get us here and if it >>>>>> offers that condensed email capability then maybe. I DO NOT want an >>>>>> email >>>>>> for every post being made thats is an absolute! >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 9:21:36 AM UTC-5 TW Tones wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> JW Are you on the specific instance of discourse? >>>>>>> https://talk.tiddlywiki.org/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> Tones >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sunday, 22 August 2021 at 20:55:10 UTC+10 JWHoneycutt wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Signed up for Discourse - can't find any hits when searching >>>>>>>> "TiddlyWiki" - did I just lose access to the community? >>>>>>>> JWH >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 10:23:29 PM UTC-4 >>>>>>>> joshua....@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Definitely moving over to the Discourse community. See you all >>>>>>>>> there! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>> Joshua Fontany >>>>>>>>> On Saturday, August 21, 2021 at 3:42:18 PM UTC-7 Scott Simmons >>>>>>>>> (Secret-HQ) wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I've created a profile on Talk.TiddlyWiki.org and am delighted >>>>>>>>>> with the interface there. I'll try to ask questions and create new >>>>>>>>>> threads >>>>>>>>>> there rather than here, though I guess I'll be drawn back to Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups >>>>>>>>>> is that's where the conversation flows. (For my part, I'm hoping it >>>>>>>>>> moves >>>>>>>>>> to Talk.TW) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://talk.tiddlywiki.org/u/secret-hq/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>>> Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/rnnDIl1_b_Q/unsubscribe. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>> tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/45dede02-d163-4f3f-a927-15f7e3a2b80en%40googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/45dede02-d163-4f3f-a927-15f7e3a2b80en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. 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