Re: [tw5] Taking Node Server to the next level

[TonyM]

All,

WordPress permits OAuth and the standard login process logs the browser in 
so I believe login once and at least that browser will have access until 
logout, or time out.

Open ID allows you to login with a WordPress, WordPress.com account, 
Google, Facebook etc... It is WordPRess that has the database credentials 
and the API's access it on your behalf, although you could write methods to 
access the database directly but the database credentials will have to be 
out there.

WordPress has a sophisticated authentication model including different 
access levels and more but most importantly self serve accounts, reset 
password features, email invitations  possibly even 2FA options. There are 
Rest API's but I do not understand them. 

The advantage of leveraging the WordPress model is its pervasive, mostly 
free, hosted all over, extensible, responding to threats, and much much 
more.

I think in time tiddlywiki plugins may be built to provide what services 
wordpress can already provide with mature technology. 

Custom posts (=pages) types is the way to go because ease of integration 
with tiddlywiki becomes possible, like editing a tiddler in WordPress as 
well and from a tiddlywiki. A whole range of integrations with wordpress 
then become possible to enable on TiddlyWiki including email sending, 
social sharing, linking to data feeds, rss, and much more.

Regards
Tony

On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 12:58:58 AM UTC+11, Arlen Beiler wrote:
>
> All three of those sites have an OAuth flow setup for that. Basically you 
> get redirected to the login page and then the login page returns a code 
> back to the client page. Wordpress might just involve using the browser 
> session, though, I’m not sure. 
>
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 07:58 bimlas > 
> wrote:
>
>> Arlen,
>>
>> WordPress (that's an interesting but very feasible suggestion), Google, 
>>> and Github all support multi-user editing natively, so each user would have 
>>> their own login credentials. 
>>>
>>
>> True, but we want to access the API with the saver, so we need a Personal 
>> Access Token. Or is it possible to use the API with native user 
>> credentials? 
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [tw5] Taking Node Server to the next level

[Arlen Beiler]

All three of those sites have an OAuth flow setup for that. Basically you
get redirected to the login page and then the login page returns a code
back to the client page. Wordpress might just involve using the browser
session, though, I’m not sure.

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 07:58 bimlas  wrote:

> Arlen,
>
> WordPress (that's an interesting but very feasible suggestion), Google,
>> and Github all support multi-user editing natively, so each user would have
>> their own login credentials.
>>
>
> True, but we want to access the API with the saver, so we need a Personal
> Access Token. Or is it possible to use the API with native user
> credentials?
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [tw5] Taking Node Server to the next level

[bimlas]

Arlen,

WordPress (that's an interesting but very feasible suggestion), Google, and 
> Github all support multi-user editing natively, so each user would have 
> their own login credentials. 
>

True, but we want to access the API with the saver, so we need a Personal 
Access Token. Or is it possible to use the API with native user 
credentials? 

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Re: [tw5] Taking Node Server to the next level

[Arlen Beiler]

WordPress (that's an interesting but very feasible suggestion), Google, and
Github all support multi-user editing natively, so each user would have
their own login credentials.

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 6:54 AM bimlas  wrote:

> Jeremy, TonyM,
>
> Another interesting sync adaptor would be one that *retrieved *and stored
>> tiddlers via the Wordpress API.
>
>
> I think the main problem with "database backends" (Google Sheets,
> Wordpress, PouchDB) is that by default they are not accessible as a web
> page, but everyone has to set up credentials to read and edit the wiki.
> Sorry if I misunderstood it but haven't used Tiddly in this way. If I
> understand it, something like a database backend would look like this:
>
> * You open an empty Tiddly
> * Configure credentials for the saver
> * Saver synchronizes (downloads) tiddlers
> * When you make changes, the changes are saved to the database
>
> If it doesn't work that way, I apologize and please someone write down the
> workflow.
>
> The problem is you don't always want to give credentials - for example,
> you want to make tw.com visible without logging in. The easiest way to
> make your wiki public is to recreate the HTML (which anyone can read) after
> each change, and if you have credentials, you can also edit the tiddlers
> via this generated HTML. I find GitHub / GitLab best suited for this
> workflow, thanks to continous deployment.
>
> I would love to enable contributions to tiddler content via got hub a bit
>> like when you edit tiddlywiki.com but have the changes appear online.
>
>
> A workaround is to add new Personal Access Tokens to the repository, one
> for each user, so they will have their own "TiddlyWiki password".
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [tw5] Taking Node Server to the next level

[bimlas]

TiddlyTweeter,

I think for wider apps the widely used system to login using existing 
> credentials (Google, Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook etc) for authorisation is 
> easiest.
>

I don't see the whole process yet, but it might be feasible that when 
logging in with GitHub, the saver would create a Personal Access Token 
(valid for a day, for example), so the user would only see is that they 
need to login as GitHub user.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/41879286/get-a-token-by-github-api

GitLab offers login by Google, GitHub, Twittwer accounts, and continous 
integration is much easier to use (you don't need Travis-CI because there 
is a builtin GitLab-CI), so that platform might be more ideal . The user 
only registers once with one of his accounts (so no need to memorize a new 
password) and the saver takes care of the rest.

I still have to think about it, but I think it's a viable way.

https://gitlab.com/users/sign_in

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Re: [tw5] Taking Node Server to the next level

[TiddlyTweeter]

 bimlas wrote:
>
> I think the main problem with "database backends" (Google Sheets, 
> Wordpress, PouchDB) is that by default they are not accessible as a web 
> page, but everyone has to set up credentials to read and edit the wiki. 
>
 

> A workaround is to add new Personal Access Tokens to the repository, one 
> for each user, so they will have their own "TiddlyWiki password". 
>

I think the use of "Tokens" is a good way.

The issue I'm looking at as a non-tech user is simply: what would my 
potential users want?

Personally when I hit a new site that has, say, a dedicated (i.e. its own, 
not a disqus etc.) commenting system, the barrier to entry is "yet another 
login credentials set" you have to maintain.

I think for wider apps the widely used system to login using existing 
credentials (Google, Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook etc) for authorisation is 
easiest.

Not entirely irrelevant.

Best wishes
TT  

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Re: [tw5] Taking Node Server to the next level

[bimlas]

Jeremy, TonyM,

Another interesting sync adaptor would be one that *retrieved *and stored 
> tiddlers via the Wordpress API.


I think the main problem with "database backends" (Google Sheets, 
Wordpress, PouchDB) is that by default they are not accessible as a web 
page, but everyone has to set up credentials to read and edit the wiki. 
Sorry if I misunderstood it but haven't used Tiddly in this way. If I 
understand it, something like a database backend would look like this:

* You open an empty Tiddly
* Configure credentials for the saver
* Saver synchronizes (downloads) tiddlers
* When you make changes, the changes are saved to the database

If it doesn't work that way, I apologize and please someone write down the 
workflow.

The problem is you don't always want to give credentials - for example, you 
want to make tw.com visible without logging in. The easiest way to make 
your wiki public is to recreate the HTML (which anyone can read) after each 
change, and if you have credentials, you can also edit the tiddlers via 
this generated HTML. I find GitHub / GitLab best suited for this workflow, 
thanks to continous deployment.

I would love to enable contributions to tiddler content via got hub a bit 
> like when you edit tiddlywiki.com but have the changes appear online.


A workaround is to add new Personal Access Tokens to the repository, one 
for each user, so they will have their own "TiddlyWiki password". 

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Re: [tw5] Taking Node Server to the next level

[PMario]

Hi, 

There has been an idea to use e-mail accounts to store tiddlers using the 
IMAP format. e-mail hosting providers are reliable and cheep. You may even 
have an account combined with your smart phone contract, but probably not 
used. 

just a thought
mario

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Re: [tw5] Taking Node Server to the next level

[TonyM]

Jeremy,

we could make use of the sql database that is build to support word press. 
However as you say using the api would be more sophisticated.

I have played with building custom post types and would be interested in 
creating a tiddler post type. We could also support plugins as JSON packages.

Tiddlers as a custom post type would make them full word press citizens and 
enable a meta site. We could store macros doco and more. Perhaps even click and 
create wiki editions.

See my initial investigation and ideas in the choice of menus. 
http://www.colabteam.net/tiddlywiki/ I own the domain and hosting. Bit I have 
not put cloudflare can on yet.

I am all for drinking our own Champaign but until we get multiuser sites worked 
out I see value in an open id community site. I can install almost anything on 
my host including node but the security on internet facing node is unknowen to 
me.

Regards
Tony

Tony

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Re: [tw5] Taking Node Server to the next level

[Jeremy Ruston]

Another interesting sync adaptor would be one that retrieved and stored 
tiddlers via the Wordpress API. The attraction is that WordPress hosting is 
highly commoditised, being readily available and cheap. It should be possible 
to store tiddlers as “Pages”, and to inherit WordPress’s very smooth handling 
for media and attachments.

https://developer.wordpress.org/rest-api/ 


Best wishes

Jeremy.

> On 6 Dec 2019, at 07:24, bimlas  wrote:
> 
> There are two things that I think can be used for online storage:
> 
> On the one hand, the GitHub saver could be upgraded to save the tiddlers one 
> at a time using the datafolder format instead of a large HTML (so you 
> wouldn't have to wait minutes to save, just wait for one tiddler to save, 
> like the Node server) work). This way, the wiki would be completely online, 
> because when we save the changes, there would always be a commit that 
> triggers the HTML wiki generation, so we could open it and modify it on 
> GitHub without ever having to store it on our own machine.
> 
> My other idea is that Disqus, or a similar messaging system, can be used to 
> store the tiddlers that we could access through the API.
> 
> For the time being, these are just ideas, but I will write them down to 
> remember them and to give others ideas to complement.
> 
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Re: [tw5] Taking Node Server to the next level

[Dave]

I'm just a TW user (not in the computing profession), but if y'all are open to 
requests at this early stage here are my 2 cents:

Yay for increased stability (I assume that's what this is about)

1 vote for making this thing a snap or app image or flat pak that an amateur 
like me could install in an old computer or pi on the home network and see from 
another network safely.

1 vote for at least being able to act as if tiddlers were still text files you 
can modify outside the browser (e.g. an API that allows you to modify or create 
tiddlers from the command line)

P.s. I love the "save snapshot for offline use later" idea. I've more than once 
lost work because I didn't notice the big red banner that I was not connected 
to the server, ha ha

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Re: [tw5] Taking Node Server to the next level

[ILYA]

Nice idea. Another option is git instead of a database.

On 28 November 2019 15:59:24 GMT-08:00, Arlen Beiler  wrote:
>I have a radical proposal which would take data folders to the next
>level.
>What if instead of the file system adapter we would write a new adapter
>to
>use a database. We could use PouchDB, but I would vote for something
>much
>more widespread like SQLite. We could also write it in a generic way
>that
>makes it easy to use with the regular SQL databases. It would be easy
>to
>build but I would want to make it robust enough to use in a wide array
>of
>platforms.
>
>I have already worked with the tiddler loading code enough to be
>certain it
>is self contained and can easily be made asynchronous to accommodate
>this
>feature. Or the preload tiddlers feature can be used, but I think it’s
>better to separate out the loaders as Jeremy has mentioned.
>
>Any thoughts on this or things I should keep in mind as I brainstorm?
>
>Arlen
>
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[tw5] Taking Node Server to the next level

[Arlen Beiler]

I have a radical proposal which would take data folders to the next level.
What if instead of the file system adapter we would write a new adapter to
use a database. We could use PouchDB, but I would vote for something much
more widespread like SQLite. We could also write it in a generic way that
makes it easy to use with the regular SQL databases. It would be easy to
build but I would want to make it robust enough to use in a wide array of
platforms.

I have already worked with the tiddler loading code enough to be certain it
is self contained and can easily be made asynchronous to accommodate this
feature. Or the preload tiddlers feature can be used, but I think it’s
better to separate out the loaders as Jeremy has mentioned.

Any thoughts on this or things I should keep in mind as I brainstorm?

Arlen

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