Re: [time-nuts] Industrial control systems and IEEE 1588v2 time sync

2013-07-31 Thread Peter Bell
Pretty much any industrial Ethernet vendor makes switches that support 1588 - we were using ones from Siemens. On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 1:29 PM, Scott McGrath scmcgr...@gmail.com wrote: The only switch I know that supports IEEE 1588 is the Cisco CGS 2520 and it was about 10 k before discount.

Re: [time-nuts] Industrial control systems and IEEE 1588v2 time sync

2013-07-31 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message 2072AA3475FF47539716716917CDBA99@system071, Bill Hawkins writes: Has anyone used IEEE 1588 to synchronize clocks on an Ethernet network? Yes. I've just seen an ad for a switch that can do 1588, and looked up what it does. Microsecond accuracy is impressive, but what does it cost?

Re: [time-nuts] Industrial control systems and IEEE 1588v2 time sync

2013-07-31 Thread Javier Serrano
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 6:19 AM, Bill Hawkins b...@iaxs.net wrote: Microsecond accuracy is impressive, but what does it cost? A colleague of mine had a non-exhaustive look at the market 1.5 years ago [1]. The cheapest PTP switch she could find was the Hirschmann MACH1000, selling for 5.7

Re: [time-nuts] Story in the Economist about GPS jamming

2013-07-31 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 30/07/13 16:03, J. Forster wrote: I think the largest concern about jamming is for civilian uses, rather than military, mainly because military receivers are designed and built to be more immune. Also, military systems are far more likely to have good grade INS. Furthermore, there are

Re: [time-nuts] Story in the Economist about GPS jamming

2013-07-31 Thread Magnus Danielson
The MEO/GEO distance difference isn't all that great, and comparable signal strength is seen from the WAAS/EGNOS (SBAS in general) without too much difficulty in design. Cheers, Magnus On 30/07/13 16:51, bg wrote: Satnav are not LEO but MEO. Which is good - less sv to cover the earth. Less

Re: [time-nuts] 10811 Outer oven controller schematic

2013-07-31 Thread Magnus Danielson
Paul, gas? What gas? what soft plastic paint remover? A little more specifics would help if someone is in the need. Cheers, Magnus On 20/07/13 23:22, paul swed wrote: Hello to the group. As the various posts mention pulling the outer oven and taped wire off is a job. But thats done. The Osc

Re: [time-nuts] Interesting (meaningless?) measurement.

2013-07-31 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 23/07/13 17:44, Brian Alsop wrote: The standard deviation using the 5335 internal oscillator is 0.39 nS. Recall that the 5335A has a hardware resolution in their interpolator of 500 ps, but effectively reports 1 ns resolution as both the start and stop contribute error. Averaging will

Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update

2013-07-31 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 26/07/13 22:16, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Well if you get desperate to try it, I have CO2 and a chamber sitting in the garage. The biggest issue is that if we use too much CO2 for the chamber, the beer may go flat… Can't have that in the name of science, we need good beer after the

Re: [time-nuts] Industrial control systems and IEEE 1588v2 time sync

2013-07-31 Thread Peter Bell
I was involved in some work on industrial controls that used 1588 for timing. We only needed microsecond accuracy, and it did that easily - the basic hardware is simple, we were using STM32 microcontrollers with the DP83640 PHY. Since the MCU required a PHY anyway, the additional cost for the

Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811 update

2013-07-31 Thread Bob Camp
Hi On Jul 31, 2013, at 5:23 AM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 26/07/13 22:16, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Well if you get desperate to try it, I have CO2 and a chamber sitting in the garage. The biggest issue is that if we use too much CO2 for the chamber, the beer may

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Spoofing

2013-07-31 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 27/07/13 13:19, Brian Alsop wrote: If you know your LORAN has a 1/4 mile accuracy then you stay 1/2 mile away from bad things. The trouble with GPS is that it is so good, people don't use common sense and give obstacles a wide berth. The published civilian precision of GPS isn't much

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Spoofing

2013-07-31 Thread Bob Camp
Hi On Jul 31, 2013, at 6:47 AM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 27/07/13 13:19, Brian Alsop wrote: If you know your LORAN has a 1/4 mile accuracy then you stay 1/2 mile away from bad things. The trouble with GPS is that it is so good, people don't use common sense

Re: [time-nuts] Industrial control systems and IEEE 1588v2 time sync

2013-07-31 Thread Bob Camp
Hi A number of the chip guys will sell you micro's that have one or more 1588 ethernet ports on them. Some of them are in the sub $10 range. With a bit of Time Nut attention, they seem to be capable of well under 1 us performance. If you have a daisy chain network they will do what you need

Re: [time-nuts] 10811 Outer oven controller schematic

2013-07-31 Thread Arnold Tibus
Magnus, I am sure he does mean gasoline, petrol, benzine. I apply it quite often when other alcohols dont work e.g. spiritus (ethanol). But beware to apply only the clean issue which is specially sold for this purpose or that one sold in small metal cans for the good old cigarette lighters. It is

Re: [time-nuts] 10811 Outer oven controller schematic

2013-07-31 Thread Rex
I suspect by gas he meant gasoline. I don't know about what paint remover he meant but I have another suggestion that might have worked. For cleaning label gunk off of used test equipment I have used automotive bug and tar remover. Seems to loosen up lots of gunk but not so strong it hurts

Re: [time-nuts] Rb standard questions

2013-07-31 Thread Mike M
Mon Jul 29 15:04:40 EDT 2013 Life is variable. 10 years and the lamp voltage is the best clue. New 9-12V, mid life 3-9, late 3 and below. That doesn't mean it won't work but gives you a hint and the voltages are approx. Use a Hz meter to measure it. [...] Regards

Re: [time-nuts] Story in the Economist about GPS jamming

2013-07-31 Thread Jim Lux
Yes.. You put a gain antenna on the space craft, so for the same tx power, you get the same flux density on the ground. The gps height was chosen for a variety of reasons. It is out of the debris band, for one. There's also a tradeoffs on launch costs, etc. GPS world magazine had a great

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Spoofing

2013-07-31 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 28/07/13 19:16, Bob Camp wrote: Hi If we are now down to a truck sized / house sized area, I'd claim that Loran-C is dead simple to jam. That's what the truck stop gizmos are aimed at. There where truck-sized spare transmitters to be utilized in failure/war as I recall it. The main

Re: [time-nuts] 10811 Outer oven controller schematic

2013-07-31 Thread paul swed
Paint remover turpentine Gas = gasoline Ovens all clean now of the goo. But its still off frequency Regards Paul WB8TSL On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 7:15 AM, Rex r...@sonic.net wrote: I suspect by gas he meant gasoline. I don't know about what paint remover he meant but I have another suggestion

Re: [time-nuts] Story in the Economist about GPS jamming

2013-07-31 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 31/07/13 13:54, Jim Lux wrote: Yes.. You put a gain antenna on the space craft, so for the same tx power, you get the same flux density on the ground. The gps height was chosen for a variety of reasons. It is out of the debris band, for one. There's also a tradeoffs on launch costs,

Re: [time-nuts] RS 232

2013-07-31 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 26/07/13 15:06, Jim Lux wrote: And, in some cases, moving the timing critical operations off to a separate device is going to be the wisest plan. The Roland MPU401 Midi box was one of the first to do this, back in the DOS days. It was a pretty crappy CPU, but sufficient to do the task.

Re: [time-nuts] Rb standard questions

2013-07-31 Thread paul swed
Thats it pin 5 in your case. Most RBs bring the lamp voltage out. In reality its simply brightness from the photocell after amplification and some filtering. Regards On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 7:36 AM, Mike M timen...@binsamp.e4ward.com wrote: Mon Jul 29 15:04:40 EDT 2013 Life is

Re: [time-nuts] Typical NTP performance? Monitoring multiple NTP servers?

2013-07-31 Thread Magnus Danielson
Hej Anders, On 26/07/13 09:21, Anders Wallin wrote: Hi all, I have two NTP-related questions: 1. We are setting up a White-Rabbit[1] network for time-distribution. We 'seed' the WR-network with 10MHz and PPS signals form atomic clocks. This means on each computer in the network there's a very

Re: [time-nuts] Typical NTP performance? Monitoring multiple NTP servers?

2013-07-31 Thread Chris Albertson
Your time logging method likely introduces a large error. Larger then any problems in the things you are trying to measure. A good NTP system generally works at the few microseconds level. As for running multiple NTP Clients, First off there is not such distintion between a client and a

Re: [time-nuts] 10811 Outer oven controller schematic

2013-07-31 Thread Magnus Danielson
Hi Paul (and others), On 31/07/13 15:37, paul swed wrote: Paint remover turpentine Gas = gasoline Thanks! Ovens all clean now of the goo. But its still off frequency Bummer. Hope it can resolve itself with some more debugging and test of ideas with the good folks here. Have a few more

Re: [time-nuts] testing L1 antenna

2013-07-31 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 25/07/13 09:21, Hal Murray wrote: Has anyone got a proven method to check a GPS timing antenna for reliable operation? Plug it into a known-good GPS receiver. A while ago, I thought one of my antennas had died. Then the other died, or something like that. Both antennas started working

Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801 melted rubber feet. Heads up

2013-07-31 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 27/07/13 00:58, paul swed wrote: Beginning the process of installing a hp 10544 in what had held the Hp 10811 temporarily by adding some wires for power to the 10544. Pulled the main board out and what a mess I discovered. HP installed some rubber feet to support the main boards and they have

[time-nuts] Removing goop was: =Re: 10811 Outer oven controller schematic

2013-07-31 Thread Graham
This has been an interesting discussion on how to remove goop from stuff. I find that one or the other of the common methyl or ethyl alcohols is sufficient in many cases to remove goop and has proven to be quite safe on almost all surfaces. When one of the common alcohols doesn't work I

[time-nuts] Trimble Nortel GPSTM Boards

2013-07-31 Thread GandalfG8
Having stuck a late bid on a recent auction for what I'd assumed was a Trimble Nortel NTGS50AA I then realised I'd just bought the single board version, part number 4500-00-CH with the Trimble 49422-CR OCXO. That in itself wasn't a problem, except perhaps the doubts cast over my

Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Nortel GPSTM Boards

2013-07-31 Thread Bob Camp
Hi From looking at a picture of one, it seems to have all the same stuff on it as the NTGS50 era gizmos. It should behave the same way. Bob On Jul 31, 2013, at 5:42 PM, gandal...@aol.com wrote: Having stuck a late bid on a recent auction for what I'd assumed was a Trimble Nortel NTGS50AA

[time-nuts] How quartz crystals are (were) fabricated

2013-07-31 Thread Alberto di Bene
A really fascinating story in pictures of the preparation and manufacture of quartz crystals for radio communication. Dating back to 1943... how times have changed... Copied from another list. http://archive.org/details/6101_Crystals_Go_to_War_01_20_16_21 73 Alberto I2PHD

Re: [time-nuts] How quartz crystals are (were) fabricated

2013-07-31 Thread Bob Camp
Hi Some things change, some things don't. A few interesting things: 1) The film was made after they figured out that final etch was a key step. Earlier in the war - not so much etch. 2) I'll *guarantee* that the workers in the pictures didn't show up for work on a normal work day dressed like

Re: [time-nuts] Removing goop was: =Re: 10811 Outer oven controller schematic

2013-07-31 Thread Don Latham
Xylene is availble as goof-off in paint departments. Graham This has been an interesting discussion on how to remove goop from stuff. I find that one or the other of the common methyl or ethyl alcohols is sufficient in many cases to remove goop and has proven to be quite safe on almost all

Re: [time-nuts] Removing goop was: =Re: 10811 Outer oven controller schematic

2013-07-31 Thread Dr. Edward H. Currie
DW-40 is a good label goop remover ... - Original Message - From: Don Latham d...@montana.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 8:42 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Removing goop was: =Re: 10811 Outer oven

Re: [time-nuts] Removing goop was: =Re: 10811 Outer oven controller schematic

2013-07-31 Thread Don Latham
I haven't found anything that really removes sticker glue without scarring the paint. Of course, if you want provenance and history, leave 'em on :-) I'm only buying usb new and pre-1930 GR. Howareya? Heading for shooting tomorrow and on to see Argus, then to gun show. Just returned from

Re: [time-nuts] Removing goop was: =Re: 10811 Outer oven controller schematic

2013-07-31 Thread Don Latham
Sorry, all, got a personal mixed in! pls ignore! Don Dr. Edward H. Currie DW-40 is a good label goop remover ... - Original Message - From: Don Latham d...@montana.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 8:42