Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Supply

2011-02-10 Thread Tim Tuck
Hi Larry, I use a linear supply for mine. My supply is actually a headphone amp supply kit from JayCar Electronics here in Australia. Its basically two LM317's and a 7805 for 5v. I changed the resistor that set the output voltage from 15v to 12v and also selected an appropriate toroid

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Supply

2011-02-10 Thread Bob Camp
dropout works with a +/- 12 volt +5 volt switcher. Bob -Original Message- From: Larry McDavid Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:46 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Supply Certainly, I'd prefer a linear 3-output supply

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Supply

2011-02-10 Thread k6rtm
Larry-- I use a +12 volt linear supply (an open-frame leftover) with a 7805 for the +5 rail. For -12, I use a 2 watt isolated dc-dc converter (leftover from another project). As others have stated, the +12 rail seems to be the noise sensitive one. 73 bob k6rtm in silicon valley

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Supply

2011-02-10 Thread EWKehren
I use a 16 Volt Laptop power supply followed by Low Noise LT1764A linear regulator for +12 and a 7805 for the logic. If you want to splurge use a LT1764A also for the +5.. To generate the -12V a Microchip TC962 followed by a 79L12 does a nice job. The +5 and -12 are not that critical. That

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Supply

2011-02-10 Thread J. L. Trantham
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Supply Certainly, I'd prefer a linear 3-output supply. But, I've not found a suitable one yet, in linear or switching. TAPR offered one in the past but has no more. So, I'm asking for recommendations and where to get one. Larry On 2/10/2011 3:32 PM, J. L

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Supply

2011-02-10 Thread Mike Naruta AA8K
That's odd. I just went to the TAPR.org web site and can still seem to order an LPU kit for around $43 US. I'm using a TAPR/OpenHPSDR LPU to run two Thunderbolts. The LPU is operating on 13.6 volts off the house battery. The -12 volts is switching, the other two voltages are linear. I

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt behaviour with long time constants.

2011-02-09 Thread WarrenS
Looks to be mostly a plot of the 5370B's noise floor at low taus. You may need something a couple of decades better if you want to measure the Tbolt at that tau setting. BTW, You should NOT set the TBolt's TC to 999 sec. I have found that the control can become somewhat unpredictable, AKA

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt behaviour with long time constants.

2011-02-09 Thread Mark Spencer
Thanks for the comments.I did a quick check of the noise floor of the 5370b while feeding the 10 mhz output of the tbolt to the start and stop inputs of the 5370b with a t connector. At a tau of 10 (approx 2.5 seconds) the Allan deviation is 1x10-11, at a tau of 100 (approx 25 seconds) it

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt cooling vs heating for stability

2011-01-18 Thread Bob Camp
Hi There's pretty much nothing in a TBolt that wears out. The heat rise on the parts on the pc board is modest and the only heated part is the OCXO. Cooling down the OCXO actually increases the stress on it (more heater power pulled = more stress on the heater). Obviously you can get it to hot.

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt cooling vs heating for stability

2011-01-18 Thread Chris Albertson
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Pete Lancashire p...@petelancashire.com wrote: Been getting ready to build a box for the t'bolt and instead of it all getting hotter to maintain a stable temp is the idea of cooling with a Peltier cooler, or a mix of a Peltier I've used Peltier cooling. It

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt cooling vs heating for stability

2011-01-18 Thread Pete Lancashire
sound like not worth it. My idea of 'cooling' was say keeping the insides at something like 25C. Just having a 2nd TBolt as a spare would be easier -pete On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi There's pretty much nothing in a TBolt that wears out. The heat rise on

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt cooling vs heating for stability

2011-01-18 Thread Pete Lancashire
I've done a couple projects/contracts with them, still have a few dozen units, power supplies, heat pipes etc. but I've ditched the idea. Spare T'Bolt or two should exceed my life. -pete On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt cooling vs heating for stability

2011-01-18 Thread EWKehren
Peltier takes to much power and generates more heat. A fan will work nicely. Bert Kehren In a message dated 1/18/2011 12:17:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, p...@petelancashire.com writes: Been getting ready to build a box for the t'bolt and instead of it all getting hotter to maintain a

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey

2010-11-27 Thread Rob Kimberley
Comes down to the simple fact that it needs to know its position accurately in order to give you good timing. I found this one out the hard way many (many) years ago with an old single channel Trimble unit, where we had to manually enter a known position in order to speed up acquisition. We were

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey

2010-11-27 Thread Rob Kimberley
...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Robert Darlington Sent: 26 November 2010 9:23 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey I'm running another test now and it's significantly improved

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey

2010-11-27 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 11/27/2010 11:33 AM, Rob Kimberley wrote: Comes down to the simple fact that it needs to know its position accurately in order to give you good timing. I found this one out the hard way many (many) years ago with an old single channel Trimble unit, where we had to manually enter a known

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey

2010-11-27 Thread Bob Camp
Hi Of course you *do* have the excuse that you had to stop and think for a second as to weather it *was* east or west of Greenwich ... Bob On Nov 27, 2010, at 5:33 AM, Rob Kimberley wrote: Comes down to the simple fact that it needs to know its position accurately in order to give you good

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey

2010-11-27 Thread jimlux
Bob Camp wrote: Hi Of course you *do* have the excuse that you had to stop and think for a second as to weather it *was* east or west of Greenwich ... Bob Is it not both? It was a few degrees west, but a mere 359.5 degrees east. ___ time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey

2010-11-27 Thread Rob Kimberley
...@febo.com] On Behalf Of jimlux Sent: 27 November 2010 3:31 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey Bob Camp wrote: Hi Of course you *do* have the excuse that you had to stop and think for a second

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey

2010-11-27 Thread WarrenS
- From: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of Robert Darlington Sent: 26 November 2010 9:23 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey I'm running another test

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey

2010-11-27 Thread Jim Lux
...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of jimlux Sent: 27 November 2010 3:31 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey Bob Camp wrote: Hi Of course you *do* have the excuse

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey

2010-11-27 Thread EB4APL
-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of jimlux Sent: 27 November 2010 3:31 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey Bob Camp wrote: Hi Of course you *do* have the excuse that you

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey

2010-11-27 Thread J. L. Trantham
:15 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey Right, For best performance, in fix mode operation, for a Tbolt, you don't want to run at zero (or 5) degrees. This is just one test in a series of necessary

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey

2010-11-27 Thread WarrenS
.? Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of WarrenS Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 11:15 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey

2010-11-27 Thread William H. Fite
Sent: 26 November 2010 9:23 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey I'm running another test now and it's significantly improved after the 48 hour survey. Before I'd see several degree swings over

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey

2010-11-27 Thread Rob Kimberley
: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of William H. Fite Sent: 27 November 2010 6:07 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey Interesting. I had my tbolt mask set at 10

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey

2010-11-26 Thread Dave hartzell
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 6:41 AM, Robert Darlington rdarling...@gmail.comwrote: I keep it in a styrofoam beer cooler surrounded with bottled water in a draft free area and it's been all over the map. Robert- Are you doing this for temperature stability? How stable is it? Dave

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Lady Heather 48 hour precision survey

2010-11-26 Thread Robert Darlington
I'm running another test now and it's significantly improved after the 48 hour survey. Before I'd see several degree swings over the course of an hour, now it's more like 1.1 degrees in the last 8 hours. The problem here is I didn't do anything to the styrofoam box, but the idea was to keep

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt 10MHz

2010-11-06 Thread Ziggy
There is an EEPROM that can be used to store parameter such as the initial DAC voltage, position, etc. but it's not automatic. Have you explicitly saved the position (or auto stored it) after the survey is complete? If you don't do this then it will have to do a survey on every startup and

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt repair

2010-11-01 Thread bjones0
I had the same problem with my Thunderbolt shortly after I got it and the problem turned out to be the power supply had gone bad and the voltages supplied to the tbolt were way off (but close enough to give a ~10Mhz 1pps signal). I would suggest checking each pin on the plug and make sure the

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt repair - serial port

2010-11-01 Thread Mike Naruta AA8K
I bought two TAPR ThunderBolts and on one of them the serial port would quit communicating after a while. There was no response to any command, only removing the power and then restoring power would get it talking again. My power supply was okay. I opened the T-Bolt and inspected the solder

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt repair - serial port

2010-11-01 Thread Joseph Gray
NOTE:  If you boot Windows with your ThunderBolt connected to the Com port, Windows will think it is a serial mouse and grab the port.  It can lead to some interesting Windows behavior as the T-Bolt outputs data. Mike - AA8K Easy fix. Add the following to your Boot.ini file. Obviously,

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Anomalous Behavior

2010-09-28 Thread Bob Camp
Hi Temperature moved about 8 C. That's enough to get a bad solder joint going. Bob On Sep 27, 2010, at 11:19 PM, Peter Putnam pico.2...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Greetings, I have posted two plots graciously provided for me by Lady Heather, showing strange behavior in my recently acquired

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt PPS Modification

2010-09-26 Thread shalimr9
See http;//www.ko4bb.com/Test_Equipment/Thunderbolt/PulseStreching/ Didier KO4BB Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Arthur Dent golgarfrinc...@yahoo.com Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 05:07:50 To: time-nuts@febo.com Reply-To:

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt PPS Modification

2010-09-25 Thread Hal Murray
I was thinking of modifying my Tbolt to put the 1 PPS on one of the unused RS-232 leads. It just seems like it would be really convenient to have that signal available to import into a computer. NTP expects the PPS signal on pin 1, DCD. It looks like it's not going to be quite as simple

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt PPS Modification

2010-09-25 Thread Ed Palmer
Hal Murray wrote: I was thinking of modifying my Tbolt to put the 1 PPS on one of the unused RS-232 leads. It just seems like it would be really convenient to have that signal available to import into a computer. NTP expects the PPS signal on pin 1, DCD. It looks like it's not

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt PPS Modification

2010-09-25 Thread Hal Murray
Problem 2: Because you connected the TTL-level 1 PPS to the RS-232, you may find that not all computers will recognize it. A computer that actually followed the RS-232 rules wouldn't see it at all. I don't know if any modern computer actually follows those rules. I've never had any

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt initial check out?

2010-09-20 Thread d . seiter
Between Tboltmon and Ladyheather, you'll see that your unit either works or it doesn't. My bet is that it will work just fine, even if the antenna is indoors- and then you won't be able to stop watching it (esp. with lady heather) for at least a few hours... Have fun! Dave - Original

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt initial check out?

2010-09-20 Thread francesco messineo
Hello, On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 12:21 PM, d.sei...@comcast.net wrote: Between Tboltmon and Ladyheather, you'll see that your unit either works or it doesn't. My bet is that it will work just fine, even if the antenna is indoors- and then you won't be able to stop watching it (esp. with lady

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt initial check out?

2010-09-20 Thread k6rtm
, 20 Sep 2010 12:31:09 +0200 From: francesco messineo francesco.messi...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt initial check out? To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Message-ID: aanlktimqjxpyhxrref3xsx03rhg_b35b9qop_efdy...@mail.gmail.com

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt initial check out?

2010-09-19 Thread J. L. Trantham
Russell, Load TBoltMon on your computer, connect the TBolt to the Serial Port, connect the antenna, connect the power supply (make sure of the correct connections), fire up your computer, then turn on the TBolt, double click the TBoltMon icon, select the appropriate port, and just watch what

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt initial check out?

2010-09-19 Thread Bob Camp
Hi The unit you get may be set up for some strange location. It's possible you will need to reset it to factory defaults before it will do it's thing. Lady Heather is a good program to dig into a TBolt with. It's free... Bob On Sep 19, 2010, at 6:47 PM, russell wrote: This is my first

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt initial check out?

2010-09-19 Thread Mark J. Blair
On Sep 19, 2010, at 4:38 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Lady Heather is a good program to dig into a TBolt with. It's free... It also plots oscillator and PPS error (the oscillator error plot may be off by default). If the error plots look good and both signals can be seen at the BNC outputs with an

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt initial check out?

2010-09-19 Thread Neville Michie
Your biggest problem may be to find the COM port that your TBolt is connected to. You may have to configure the port to the baud rate etc of the Tbolt (or visa versa) A Tbolt will work OK with a USB-to-Serial port converter but you have to find the port allocation and baud rate. I once

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt power supply hookup

2010-09-11 Thread Hal Murray
mspencer12...@yahoo.ca said: Would any one be able to point me towards a web site that shows the power supply pinout for the bare thunderbolt board (without the power supply board.) http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/tbolt/power.htm -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt power supply hookup

2010-09-11 Thread Mark Spencer
Thanks that is very helpfull. - Original Message From: Roberto Barrios rbarri...@msn.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Fri, September 10, 2010 10:50:51 PM Subject: [time-nuts] RE: Thunderbolt power supply hookup Hi Mark, You will find that and lots of other very interesting info at

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt power supply hookup

2010-09-11 Thread Mark Spencer
Thanks that all makes sense and power up went ok. - Original Message From: Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Fri, September 10, 2010 11:04:21 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt power supply hookup

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt power supply hookup

2010-09-11 Thread Neville Michie
From: Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time- n...@febo.com Sent: Fri, September 10, 2010 11:04:21 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt power supply hookup mspencer12...@yahoo.ca said: Would any one be able to point me towards a web

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt test results

2010-06-16 Thread John Green
The default parameters are a compromise. The thunderbolt was originally used to provide time and frequency, though I understand not always frequency, for cellsites. Though heated and air conditioned, I suspect they had pretty good temperature swings. Also, the sky view was not always optimum. It

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt test results

2010-06-16 Thread Bob Camp
think that was the wrong decision, but that's what they went with. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Green Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:32 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt test

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt test results

2010-06-13 Thread Brian Kirby
One time did 0.8 , 1.0 and 1.2 at 100 seconds and did not see much change. Its in the works one day to play with it some more, when I have more TIME Brian Peter Vince wrote: Have you played with the damping factor Brian? Peter ___

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt test results

2010-06-12 Thread Peter Vince
Have you played with the damping factor Brian? Peter ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt not seeing satellites

2010-06-11 Thread Bob Camp
Hi The monitor programs should let you know where the DAC voltage is on your unit. If it's 1.9 Hz high and in the center of DAC range, that's fine. Since you have no alarms popping up, I'd guess that the problem has to be pretty close to the GPS front end. The previously mentioned RF amp is a

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt test results

2010-06-11 Thread Bob Camp
Hi The vertical axis on the plot is pretty tough to read. What is the scale? Bob On Jun 11, 2010, at 8:43 AM, Donal G wrote: Hi Guys, I bought a Thunderbolt device recently. I have done some 10Mhz frequency tests in comparison to a Cesium reference. Attached is MTIE plot. Have any of

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt test results

2010-06-11 Thread Peter Vince
HI Bob, 10 nanoseconds at the bottom, up to 10 microseconds at the top, in three logarithmic sections. Donal: Is the time-constant at its default of 100 seconds, and was the above plot taken shortly after turning it on? There has been lots of talk on here about tweaking the performance.

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt test results

2010-06-11 Thread Bob Camp
Hi Ok, then the TBolt is running 100 to 200 ns for a tau of 12 seconds to 280K seconds. Without looking at the raw data it's tough to see what's going on. The numbers are 5 to 10X worse than I would have expected them to be. One of the monitor programs (like Lady Heather) might be useful

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt test results

2010-06-11 Thread Brian Kirby
I changed the disciplining time constant on my Thunderbolts and you can improve it (over the 100 second default). I changed it to 200 sec, then ran a day, the 300 sec, ran another day, etc. One unit was best at 400 seconds, the other unit at 600 seconds. What you should see is less movement

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt not seeing satellites

2010-06-10 Thread GandalfG8
In a message dated 10/06/2010 23:34:05 GMT Daylight Time, hol...@hotmail.com writes: I'm not sure of the required power spec, but 28V may be too low. These were meant to run off a telco power bus (nominal 48V). I run mine at 40V (from a Tek PS503A mounted in a TM501 mainframe, unit

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt not seeing satellites

2010-06-10 Thread d . seiter
Hi Steve, I don't know what the issue is, but my experience was very similar.  My Tbolt is the same (or very similar) to yours and worked fine for a few years off and on.  When Lady Heather became available, I took it out again.  It worked great with the antenna indoors in my lab for

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt not seeing satellites

2010-06-10 Thread Bob Camp
Hi I would certainly check the solder connections to the RF and power connectors on the PC board. Some of them apparently didn't get a real good solder job when they were new. Bob On Jun 10, 2010, at 3:09 PM, Steve wrote: Hi all, I have used a Trimble Thunderbolt for several years as a

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt not seeing satellites

2010-06-10 Thread GandalfG8
In a message dated 10/06/2010 20:14:40 GMT Daylight Time, stev...@suddenlink.net writes: Input voltage to the poor performing unit is about 28VDC. I did the tboltmon.exe Factory Reset with no discernible difference in performance. It is the Thunderbolt model in the aluminum housing with

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt not seeing satellites

2010-06-10 Thread Didier Juges
My understanding is that you have the older red box. Manual for the red box is there: http://www.ko4bb.com/Manuals/05%29_GPS_Timing/Trimble/Trimble_-_Thunderbolt/ ThunderBolt_Datasheet_%28red_box%29.pdf The power spec is 24V nominal, 18V min to 36V max Mine has been running off a small open

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt not seeing satellites

2010-06-10 Thread Didier Juges
The TB has an error flag if there is no antenna connected (open) or if it is shorted. The tboltmon PC software reports these flags, and so does my GPSMon firmware in the fluke.l monitor. It is possible but unlikely that there would be something wrong with the bias circuit that would not be

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt not seeing satellites

2010-06-10 Thread Steve
The voltages I measure are 11.8, -12.3 and 4.9VDC. Those measurements are with the unit operating and the power supplies under normal load. There is 4.7VDC on the feed to the antenna, that is with the coax attached to the Thunderbolt. Arthur's suggestion that something is amiss in the RF

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt not seeing satellites

2010-06-10 Thread Bob Camp
Hi I suspect that the unit puts out an ok 10 MHz signal. That would suggest that the +12 and likely the +5 supplies are ok. If the monitor software can talk to it, that's another indication that the +/-12 and +5 are fairly close to working. I think that a problem with the GPS front end /

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt not seeing satellites

2010-06-10 Thread Steve
Hi Bob, I took a look at the 10MHz output. The unit had been unpowered on my bench for an hour or so. It took about 10 minutes to stabilize at 1.9Hz on the high side of 10MHz as measured on a GPS-referenced counter. Oscilloscope indicates a level of about +12dBm and a clean looking sine

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt, Rb, Scopes at SF Bay Maker Faire this weekend

2010-05-24 Thread Robert Benward
and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:10 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt, Rb, Scopes at SF Bay Maker Faire this weekend I received some messages asking how the demo went, so I'll summarize here. If you weren't originally interested in this demo

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt, Rb,

2010-05-20 Thread WarrenS
I hope it is a LONG show with a lot of patent people. This is way above the typical WWV stuff. Any good adjusted RB with a correctly set up Tbolt will take 2.5 hrs to do the 360. Delta 1e-11 = 10,000 sec for 100 ns change. I understand it is not what your desired goal is, But would be much

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt, Rb,

2010-05-20 Thread Bob Camp
Hi The rubidium should tune over a +/- 1x10^-9 range. A nanosecond per second isn't all that hard to spot. At 10 MHz you'll do a full 360 in 100 seconds. Bob On May 20, 2010, at 5:57 PM, WarrenS wrote: I hope it is a LONG show with a lot of patent people. This is way above the typical

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt, Rb,

2010-05-20 Thread WarrenS
True, I did not consider they may want to Mis-Tune something to its limit Why not use a good OXCO, with a pot connected to its EFC? Now that would make a good demo and show some practical use, and only need to wait around a sec or so. and it would be much more fun than watching the RB drift

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt, Rb,

2010-05-20 Thread Bob Camp
Hi You can tune it from easy to impossible and still know where it is for judging purposes. Sounds like a pretty good way to do it. Bob On May 20, 2010, at 6:18 PM, WarrenS wrote: True, I did not consider they may want to Mis-Tune something to its limit Why not use a good OXCO, with

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt, Rb,

2010-05-20 Thread Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU
Thanks for thinking about and commenting on my project. The goal is to show how you can use a scope in interesting ways. One of the ways is to show that you can measure fraction PPB in stable, periodic signals, and you don't need a $5000 LeCroy, just a stopwatch and a few minutes. The

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt, Rb,

2010-05-20 Thread Hal Murray
Tomorrow, the school demo will be a paper scope made out of a yard stick, a marker, and wall-chart paper: one student holds the oscillating yard stick, a second pulls the paper steadily, and a third times it. Afterward, they count peaks and divide by time. Neat. Scopes are fun. The

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question

2010-04-27 Thread Bob Camp
Hi The point is that you can indeed get into trouble before the internal regulator drops out. How much trouble depends on the design of the heater. Bob On Apr 26, 2010, at 8:26 PM, Arthur Dent wrote: Bob Camp-In addition to the influence of the voltage on the oscillator, the voltage

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question

2010-04-26 Thread paul
On 26/04/2010 09:02, Ed Palmer wrote: In the Thunderbolt the +12 runs the oscillator. Won't an unregulated, but relatively steady, +12 supply degrade the performance of the oscillator or does the Tbolt have a built-in regulator to deal with this? There is some interesting reading on this

Re: [time-nuts] - Thunderbolt quits

2010-04-26 Thread Mike Naruta AA8K
Please excuse the individual message. Tom Van Baak, I sent you a direct reply about my Thunderbolt quitting and I suspect that e-mail is being filtered somewhere. I have been using your tvb LeapSecond address. Please reply to my a...@comcast.net and aa8k.arrl.net addresses, in case Comcast

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question

2010-04-26 Thread Bob Camp
Hi The simple answer is that there is no regulator in the TBolt between the OCXO and the +12 supply. A well regulated supply is a good idea. The common suggestion is to run a ~ +15 supply and regulate it to +12 at the TBolt. Depending on the regulator you use, You might be able to get away

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question

2010-04-26 Thread Ed Palmer
Hi Paul, Yes, I've read that page a couple of times, but it doesn't say whether the Ault, Meanwell, or Acopian power supplies have a 'regulated' or a 'close enough' +12 supply. I think that the two variable power supplies would be well regulated. I can pretty well guarantee that the ATX

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question

2010-04-26 Thread Bob Camp
Hi I'd say those are all pretty safe guesses with any modern OCXO. The drop out on the internal regulator is likely to be well below anything we would put on the +12 supply. The Trimble spec on the TBolt shows a +/- 10% tolerance on the +12V supply. From that I'd assume you could run the unit

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question

2010-04-26 Thread Ed Palmer
Hi Bob, Where did you find that 10% spec? I looked in the Tbolt book and the data sheet but didn't see it. Ed Bob Camp wrote: Hi I'd say those are all pretty safe guesses with any modern OCXO. The drop out on the internal regulator is likely to be well below anything we would put on the

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question

2010-04-26 Thread Bob Camp
Hi That's where I found it. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Dent Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 4:01 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question Ed Palmer-Where did you

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question

2010-04-26 Thread Ed Palmer
Arthur Dent wrote: The +12VDC supply (internal to the sealed oscillator) supplies both the oven and the oscillator circuits. I think you'll find that internally this +12VDC goes to the heater circuit as well as through a regulator to the oscillator which is running on something like +7VDC.

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question

2010-04-26 Thread Ed Palmer
Hi Robert, Robert Atkinson wrote: Hi Ed,The better quality industral power supplies normally have a regulator for each rail. Some specifications will put a minimum load requirement on the primary supply though. You're right that better quality power supplies have regulation on all outputs. I

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question

2010-04-26 Thread Ed Palmer
Hi Arthur Bob: Okay, it's official. I'm blind. I don't know how I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out. Ed Bob Camp wrote: Hi That's where I found it. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Dent Sent:

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question

2010-04-26 Thread Bob Camp
Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Ed Palmer Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 5:25 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question Hi Robert, Robert Atkinson wrote: Hi Ed

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question

2010-04-26 Thread Ed Palmer
measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question Hi Robert, Robert Atkinson wrote: Hi Ed,The better quality industral power supplies normally have a regulator for each rail. Some specifications will put a minimum load requirement on the primary supply though. You're right

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question

2010-04-26 Thread Bob Camp
Hi In addition to the influence of the voltage on the oscillator, the voltage change also impacts the temperature control circuit. Most OCXO's control current through the heater rather than power in the heater. As you drop voltage, the power being controlled drops. The net effect is a change

Re: [time-nuts] - Thunderbolt quits

2010-04-15 Thread Mike Naruta AA8K
Please excuse the individual message. Tom, I sent you a direct reply over 24 hours ago, and I suspect that e-mail from me to you is being filtered, as I also sent you a direct e-mail on 6/April about my Thunderbolt problem. I have been using your tvb leapsecond address. Yes, I'd appreciate

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Group Buy, part 3 - Thunderbolt quits

2010-04-14 Thread Mike Naruta AA8K
Do anyone have a troubleshooting suggestion? I've been having a chronic problem with one of the TAPR Thunderbolts that I bought; it just stops communicating. I have to power it down and back on to talk to it. I originally attributed it to my PC's RS-232 interface, but since I have gotten the

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Group Buy, part 3 - Thunderbolt quits

2010-04-14 Thread Stanley Reynolds
Do anyone have a troubleshooting suggestion? Cold solder joint on RS232 connector. Stanley ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt temperature anomaly

2010-03-30 Thread Stan, W1LE
Hello Maury, A Lady Heather screen grab would be helpful in understanding the issue. How is the power supply doing ? I once had a flakey power supply that gave me abnormal readings. Stan, W1LE Cape Cod msproul wrote: I have a Tbolt (labeled Rev. E, 5/31/05) that seems to be working

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt temperature anomaly

2010-03-30 Thread Hal Murray
It sounds like you have a Tbolt with the newer rev E (or greater) temp sensor chip...  which is not totally compatible with the tbolt firmware.   Dallas Semiconductor changed the DS1620 chip design and made it so the Tbolt cannot do high resolution temperature readings.

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt antenna?

2010-03-13 Thread Peter Vince
That's a dramatic and impressive difference Mark! Were the other choke-rings similarly better than the ordinary conical, or was this one heads and shoulders better than the rest? I was just wondering if it was the choke-ring concept that gave the major improvement, with this one just being

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt antenna?

2010-03-13 Thread WarrenS
Good information to know, if one is doing survey work. But some NON-Nut needs to ask, SO WHAT? A 3 foot error may cause + - 3ns of additional phase time error, which is well below the short term GPS noise level. If that is averaged over the 500 or so second TC loop or the 48 hrs supper survey

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt antenna?

2010-03-12 Thread J. L. Trantham
I use one like eBay item 290369619357. I have it attached to the corner of my workshop roof which is under a canopy of trees. It is connected through about 25 feet of Belden 9913F7 and it works like a champ. Relatively inexpensive if it gets taken out by a storm. Joe -Original

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt antenna?

2010-03-12 Thread Bob Camp
Hi That's quite an antenna. 10 lbs and 14 diameter Bob On Mar 11, 2010, at 11:29 PM, Mark Sims wrote: It doesn't get any better than Ebay item 270262189976... I've tested a couple dozen antennas and nothing comes close to what it does... It's big. It's pricey (but FAR less than

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt antenna?

2010-03-12 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Looks like a standard choke ring antenna. Bruce Bob Camp wrote: Hi That's quite an antenna. 10 lbs and 14 diameter Bob On Mar 11, 2010, at 11:29 PM, Mark Sims wrote: It doesn't get any better than Ebay item 270262189976... I've tested a couple dozen antennas and nothing comes

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt antenna?

2010-03-12 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Mark wrote: It doesn't get any better than Ebay item 270262189976... I've tested a couple dozen antennas and nothing comes close to what it does... It's big. It's pricey (but FAR less than the $2000+ original cost). It's good. On Mark's advice, I got one of these a few months ago. It

Re: [time-nuts] thunderbolt fault

2010-02-27 Thread Bob Camp
Hi What I'm talking about here is a common mode choke on the +12 volt supply. They are pretty common items. Just about every TV or commercial switcher has one on the power line. Some switchers have them on the outputs as well. Two independent windings are put on the same core. The DC current

Re: [time-nuts] thunderbolt fault

2010-02-27 Thread WarrenS
Simplified summery of all the past N.S. in this thread The Tbolt needs a very clean and stable +12 volt supply to get the best possible performance. The -12 +5 supplies are not very critical. For the +12 volt supply, use one as good as you can, For the -12V (-8 to -13) +5V (+-5%) power,

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