Re: [time-nuts] Looking for WWVB digital wall clock with digital 24 hour UTC display
On 2/19/2014 8:47 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote: Thanks for the suggestions, but the MFJ121 does not display the date and the Lacrosse 8055 and 8016 do not display seconds. I need hour minutes seconds day and date. You wouldn't think that would be so hard. It looks like my only choice is this smallish wall clock (more like a desk clock): How about a cheap Android tablet and a clock application? I assume you're planning on AC power, since LEDs won't run long on battery. Sellout.woot.com has a $60 tablet, and it's not hard to find them under $100. According to the manual, If Sero 7 connected with a Wi-Fi, you can also select use network-provided time. While not strictly WWVB, if you only need 1 second resolution, NTP should be fine. This also assumes you have WiFi available. You can probably find a 10 one for $100. If you stretch, I've seen refurb 1st gen iPads for $150 (pretty sure these can do NTP, too). The real cheap tablets tend to have poor digitizers, but that really doesn't matter for use as a wall clock. http://sellout.woot.com http://hisense-usa.com/tablets/sero7lt https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gadgetjuice.dockclock ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for WWVB digital wall clock with digital 24 hour UTC display
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 7:02 AM, Paul tic-...@bodosom.net wrote: On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 6:18 AM, Mike S mi...@flatsurface.com wrote: However if an iPad is within financial reach and NTP meets the 5071 requirement then Emerald Time may an answer. Emerald Sequoia is invested in horology if not metrology so they may be of some interest to a time nut. That works well. But as of a few years ago all Apple IOS devices already have NTP built-in. But to conserve battery power NTP is not run very often, just enough to keep the seconds digit read correctly. Today any mobile device you have is likely to be as good or better then a WWWV sync'd atomic clock.There is not much reason to buy one of those any more. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for WWVB digital wall clock with digital 24 hour UTC display
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 12:23 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: But as of a few years ago all Apple IOS devices already have NTP built-in. But to conserve battery power NTP is not run very often, just enough to keep the seconds digit read correctly. Seconds! But seriously my iPad2 is behind by two seconds, although the newer ones track a bit better. My Android experience is not as good. Of course the products I referred to don't actually run ntpd and they're not disciplining the clock. Much like the titular WWVB Atomic clock they periodically run the equivalent of ntpdate. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for WWVB digital wall clock with digital 24 hour UTC display
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 10:37 AM, Paul tic-...@bodosom.net wrote: Of course the products I referred to don't actually run ntpd and they're not disciplining the clock. Much like the titular WWVB Atomic clock they periodically run the equivalent of ntpdate. The problem is that WiFi uses a lot of power The OP is not looking for a practical solution. He is going to have to build it. Maybe even use real seven segment LEDS and a wood cabinet for a 1970's retro look. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for WWVB digital wall clock with digital 24 hour UTC display
What about converting an 'atomic clock' for this purpose? Bob On Friday, February 21, 2014 4:22 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 10:37 AM, Paul tic-...@bodosom.net wrote: Of course the products I referred to don't actually run ntpd and they're not disciplining the clock. Much like the titular WWVB Atomic clock they periodically run the equivalent of ntpdate. The problem is that WiFi uses a lot of power The OP is not looking for a practical solution. He is going to have to build it. Maybe even use real seven segment LEDS and a wood cabinet for a 1970's retro look. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for WWVB digital wall clock with digital 24 hour UTC display
rich...@karlquist.com said: I want to use WWVB because I want to be able to mention to visitors that the clock links to an ensemble of 5071A cesium standards, and I was one of the designers of the 5071A, the actual atomic clock. ... Neat. What does the Air Force use as a reference for GPS? Maybe you need two clocks. :) -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for WWVB digital wall clock with digital 24 hour UTC display
Other than WWVB-based frequency references/clocks that lock onto the 60 kHz carrier itself, I'm not aware of any WWVB-based clocks that were the slightest-bit affected by format change (e.g. the addition of the low-rate BPSK): Please point me to any references to the contrary if you find them. Co-incident with the WWVB format change there were a number of WWVB clocks that quit working - namely, a few of the older SkyScan models, but this had nothing at all to do with the format change, but rather an error in the silicon that caused them to fail to automatically set themselves (after initially doing so when first powered-up). For WWVB, the timing of the manifestation of this bug was most unfortunate and there is/was quite a bit of information on the net that continues to propel this myth. Being a bit of a nerd and Time Nut I went out of my way to determine the actual cause of this problem. There is this: http://ka7oei.blogspot.com/2013/02/did-nist-break-bunch-of-radio.html In this, I determined that at least with this receiver, its detection bandwidth was far too wide to be adversely affected by the phase reversal which - in theory - could skew the timing of the recovered amplitude waveform of the time code modulation. From this I concluded that the TRF receivers used by these inexpensive clocks weren't likely to be affected in the least by the BPSK. And secondly, there is this: http://ka7oei.blogspot.com/2013/03/yes-nist-did-break-bunch-of-radio.html In short, I created my own, local WWVB signal and demonstrated to my satisfaction that the real problem with these particular clocks was that they couldn't tolerate dates beyond a certain range. A shame, too, since these same clocks will happily display UTC with no DST - although they would sync at Midnight and early morning for their set time zone which means that they would sync during daylight hours: Not a problem here in Utah where we have mV/m signal levels, but it could be disastrous for stations farther east where usable signals are available only in the wee hours of the morning! (These clocks also had a bug that would cause them to delay a day during the spring change onto DST - disconcerting on the morning of the time change if it was set to local time with DST!) 73, Clint KA7OEI Wouldn't that be nice! They implement a new format which destroys much of the installed infrastructure, then don't actually produce the 'better replacement'. How very LORAN! -John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Looking for WWVB digital wall clock with digital 24 hour UTC display
Can anyone recommend a atomic wall clock that displays in digital 24 hour UTC? Looking for largest possible digits and LED preferred over LCD, under $100. Any brands to avoid? Rick ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for WWVB digital wall clock with digital 24 hour UTC display
Most of the atomic WWVB clocks cannot be set to zero time zone offset. After considerable looking, I found one that can be set to GMT with DST disabled. Look for this one: Lacrosse Technology Model WS-8016U It also has local and RF remote temperature. I got mine at Fry's Electronics, several years ago. Larry On 2/19/2014 3:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote: Can anyone recommend a atomic wall clock that displays in digital 24 hour UTC? Looking for largest possible digits and LED preferred over LCD, under $100. Any brands to avoid? Rick ... -- Best wishes, Larry McDavid W6FUB Anaheim, California (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for WWVB digital wall clock with digital 24 hour UTC display
LaCrosse 8055 is one of the few wall clocks I know that allows UTC time zone to be selected. BTW, I have a Casio Waveceptor watch (the cheap $30 one) and it works excellently, always acquiring WWVB signal at midnight to 2 AM here on East Coast. On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist rich...@karlquist.com wrote: Can anyone recommend a atomic wall clock that displays in digital 24 hour UTC? Looking for largest possible digits and LED preferred over LCD, under $100. Any brands to avoid? Rick ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for WWVB digital wall clock with digital 24 hour UTC display
I bought the MFJ 121-B. Not LED, but I wasn't looking for that option. 73, Dick, W1KSZ On 2/19/2014 4:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote: Can anyone recommend a atomic wall clock that displays in digital 24 hour UTC? Looking for largest possible digits and LED preferred over LCD, under $100. Any brands to avoid? Rick ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for WWVB digital wall clock with digital 24 hour UTC display
Radio Shack used to have one, they may still have it, I have one, it works fine it has cca 2 tall numbers for the time, and 0.75 tall for the datum and temperature, Fries Electronics is selling one for USD35.-- also 73 KJ6UJH Alex On 2/19/2014 4:10 PM, Tim Shoppa wrote: LaCrosse 8055 is one of the few wall clocks I know that allows UTC time zone to be selected. BTW, I have a Casio Waveceptor watch (the cheap $30 one) and it works excellently, always acquiring WWVB signal at midnight to 2 AM here on East Coast. On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist rich...@karlquist.com wrote: Can anyone recommend a atomic wall clock that displays in digital 24 hour UTC? Looking for largest possible digits and LED preferred over LCD, under $100. Any brands to avoid? Rick ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for WWVB digital wall clock with digital 24 hour UTC display
Thanks for the suggestions, but the MFJ121 does not display the date and the Lacrosse 8055 and 8016 do not display seconds. I need hour minutes seconds day and date. You wouldn't think that would be so hard. It looks like my only choice is this smallish wall clock (more like a desk clock): LaCrosse WS-8005U-W The seconds are in rather small type. I also do not need temperature, but I'm stuck with it apparently. All the really large clocks I have seen do not do GMT. You know this right away when they have a time zone map on the display. Rick ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for WWVB digital wall clock with digital 24 hour UTC display
Definitely avoid BRG clocks. They are reasonably priced and look really nice on the outside but look like a high school science project inside. Plus, with both versions I purchased (while at 2 different companies), the IRIG-B option just didn't work reliably. It worked some of the time, just enough to make you think it was working. Finally, the menu system is confusing at best. Just say no... -Bob On 02/19/2014 05:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote: Can anyone recommend a atomic wall clock that displays in digital 24 hour UTC? Looking for largest possible digits and LED preferred over LCD, under $100. Any brands to avoid? Rick ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for WWVB digital wall clock with digital 24 hour UTC display
I recently bought a La Crosse, See at ebay item 360752857574, that quickly synced up to WWVB and, at least to my ability to mark a time tick, been within the second of WWV. Total cost was $43. Michael / K7HIL On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 4:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist rich...@karlquist.com wrote: Can anyone recommend a atomic wall clock that displays in digital 24 hour UTC? Looking for largest possible digits and LED preferred over LCD, under $100. Any brands to avoid? Rick ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for WWVB digital wall clock with digital 24 hour UTC display
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist rich...@karlquist.com wrote: Can anyone recommend a atomic wall clock that displays in digital 24 hour UTC? Any reason why it was to by WWVB? What if it used some other means of saying accurate? The larger professional quality clocks generally don't use WWVB. If you can relax your requirements more options are open. Someone asked for this a while back and I think the simplest solution was to use a cell phone app. You can buy a way-cheap android tablet, even a used one and run a clock app on it. Some of them even simulate the red LEDs you are looking for. It will remain accurate to better than your eyes can detect. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for WWVB digital wall clock with digital 24 hour UTC display
On 2/19/2014 6:35 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist rich...@karlquist.com wrote: Can anyone recommend a atomic wall clock that displays in digital 24 hour UTC? Any reason why it was to by WWVB? What if it used some other means of saying accurate? The larger professional quality clocks generally don't Non technical reason. I want to use WWVB because I want to be able to mention to visitors that the clock links to an ensemble of 5071A cesium standards, and I was one of the designers of the 5071A, the actual atomic clock. I do also want to use the clock for my ham station. Rick ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for WWVB digital wall clock with digital 24 hour UTC display
CORRECTION: The 8005 series (with indoor temperature) does not support GMT Only the 8115 and 8119 series (with indoor and outdoor temperature) support GMT. On 2/19/2014 5:47 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote: so hard. It looks like my only choice is this smallish wall clock (more like a desk clock): LaCrosse WS-8005U-W ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for WWVB digital wall clock with digital 24 hour UTC display
Rick wrote: Thanks for the suggestions, but the MFJ121 does not display the date The MFJ-121 might not include the date, but some of their other large WWVB clocks do. Go to http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Categories.php?sec=226(clock products) and click on the ones that say ATOMIC. I am not sure if they all can be set to UTC but some of them say they can. MFJ products are made for radio amateurs, many of whom use UTC for 'talking around the world'. Be aware that MFJ has mixed reviews ... some of their products that they themselves assemble in Mississippi can have QC issues. Cold solder joints is the one I hear most often. Some people love 'em; others hate 'em. They are a successful business for 40+ years so I'd have to guess the lovers outweigh the haters. Andy ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
