25 years ago Brooks Shera developed a GPSDO that had a Frequency accuracy of 1
E-11. A year later in 1998 he published his work in July 11998 in QST. The
total package included circuits, PC board and in depth analysis of every part
of his design including his filter.. I was one of the first
There is a lot of talk of Rb's and OCXO's and using an OCXO for clean up. Very
little about the clean up loop. It is key for overall performance. We are
working on it for quite some time and are not happy with the results. On list
off list would greatly be appreciated.
My 132 Power Module failed. Not made by HP. removed the white silicone one
Diode was not soldered in sometimes touched, solder it in no more problems.
Bert Kehren
Two HP 5065A on ebay in Germany Bert Kehren
https://www.ebay.com/itm/353785283417?hash=item525f3f0359:g:~GkAAOSwNgZhoODS
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If you are in Germany the Zugspitze at 2962 meter and Garmisch 700 meter would
be perfect. Good amenities at both locations.
I see the SRS FS 740 and Morion Rb's and super low Av OCXO's in al my
Microwave publications. That seems the market the are after.
Bert Kehren
___
I remember in the early 90's I used a HP receiver and a Tracor M 100 with no
problem in Miami. Junghans came to Miami to test their clocks and watches using
a R handheld device for accurate signal evaluation. They had determined that
Miami was the most distance from the 60 KHz transmitter in
As time nuts we all know about NIST Time and Frequency work. NIST is involved
in the investigation of what happened in the tragic collapse of a High Rise in
Miami Surf Side.
Bert Kehren
If some one has a bad one how about opening it and take some pictures. Would be
very informative.
Bert Kehren
Attached is a plot of EFC versus Frequency of a Vectron pulled from a Tbolt.
EFC is + and -. I suspect that the units are shipped with the EFC set at 0
Volt. Notice 0 Volt Again I suspect the extra pin is there for that purpose.
Bob could tell us but may not want to comment to stay out of
One more comment on the Vectron OCXO. My Tbolt shows a tuning voltage of +0.4
Volt and has 3.6 Hz per Volt. Assuming the OCXO was sold to Trimble with 0 V
and my unit has at least 12 years on it (4380 days) aging is 3.29 E-11 per day.
Not bad for an OCXO.
Have to go to page 2 half way down direct ling will not give you any info
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There is an OSA 8600 in France for sale. Euro 1800. I bought my 8607 from the
seller. Most likely never used came from an Army program like mine.
Bert
Kehren
A couple of years back, we started to explore using Laser Diode with a FRK.
Started by looking at shorter time constant for the loop and found that 0.055
seconds gave best AV. Longer time constant for Laser control. Also using
external reference for tuning. Using HP 70 000 Optical Plug in to
During my days at UTC I was among other things responsible for our Industrial
Laser Group. We sold some 50 KW CW CO2 lasers! We had the only aero dynamic
window that allowed a vacuum on one side. When not in use you put a pencil
through it. Patented.
GOOD Morning Tom
Thank you for the super information Read it over and over. To me no joy,
sadness for Astronomy, Science, Puerto Rico and the US.
One more comment thank you Juerg for all the data analysis.
Bert Kehren In a message dated 1/27/2021 7:33:09 AM Eastern
Standard Time, time-nuts@lists.febo.com writes:
Over the last couple of years I have looked at the LEA M8F, it is a GPSDO with
1 pps. not
In the past removed more than 10 5T's with no problems using a Propane Torch,
tapping the board and the devices did slide off. No problem.
Noticed Bluegirls changing her listing based on Nigel's false information. For
the record pin 18 of the LEA devices is a very nice feature
We use the board but my boards are presently in Connecticut so I can not check.
Pin 18 of the Ublox is used to feed power to an active antenna that is why the
Rf pin does not have a capacitor. I have fed 5V in to pin 18 on ny Saw Tooth
boards. Some one check if pin 8 in question is connected
In the 90's Junghans came to Miami to test reception because it was the
farthest from Colorado and I coordinated their visit because I knew the then
owners. They subsequently shipped me 2 analog, 2 digital clocks and 2 watches.
The metal watches had an antenna in the leather watch band. The
shopping for existing breakout boards:
>
> The ebay listing is for the *LEA-M8T*. It is mechanically and electrically
> different from the *NEO-M8T*.
>
> BR,
> Matthias
>
> On Montag, 7. Dezember 2020 14:25:35 CET ew via time-nuts wrote:
>> With not much happening on Ublox
Be careful NEO and LEA packages are not even close
Let me clarify I will not make boards. I am willing to work with some one off
list and design a board and make a Gerber file. Since I have done an Ublox
board before {attached} I have the Ublox part on file it is the tricky part.
That board works. Should also be willing to review 8T datasheet
If some one wants to make a breakout board or Saw tooth get with me off list
Bert Kehren
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price. They appear to be on a cut out circuit board.How
are you connecting to them please? RegardsPaul.WB8TSL
On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 9:14 AM ew via time-nuts
wrote:
With not much happening on Ublox 9T I went back looking at 8T in support for
Jim Harnan's next generation GPSDO.. Shopping on ebay
board.How
are you connecting to them please? RegardsPaul.WB8TSL
On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 9:14 AM ew via time-nuts
wrote:
With not much happening on Ublox 9T I went back looking at 8T in support for
Jim Harnan's next generation GPSDO.. Shopping on ebay I ran across this super
deal. No financial interest
With not much happening on Ublox 9T I went back looking at 8T in support for
Jim Harnan's next generation GPSDO.. Shopping on ebay I ran across this super
deal. No financial interest but we have bought from him repeatedly no problem.
There is a reason he has 100%.. We have offered $ 15 for
Trimble is working with SIRIUS XM to send Trimble RTX GNSS correction data to
vehicle satellite receivers for Autonomous Vehicles
Bert Kehren
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On 11/13/2020 2:21 PM, ew via time-nuts wrote:
Having contacted several time nuts off list to cut down traffic but no response
will some one tell me the battery number covered and number of cells so I am
properly prepared to exchange.
Bert
The backup battery really has nothing to do
Having contacted several time nuts off list to cut down traffic but no response
will some one tell me the battery number covered and number of cells so I am
properly prepared to exchange. Thanks
Bert Kehren In a message dated 11/13/2020 4:37:29
It looks like the L1/L2 antenna that was widely discussed a couple of years
ago. I bought one and it is TNC like in the picture. Bought cable with TNC
Bert Kehren. In a message
Most Rb's have a filter prior to the multiplier forcing you to make major
modifications to the cell.
Look at the SRS FS740 and you get an idea how "good" the PRS10 Rb is! Bert
Kehren In a message dated 9/29/2020 2:22:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
m...@alignedsolutions.com writes:
I would be curious to hear from those who have a GPS disciplined PRS 10 in
their home time labs. I was never
You want a substantial UPS go to Victron Energy and get a charger Inverter
Multi Plus and add a battery I have done it. Bert KehrenIn a message dated
9/26/2020 12:16:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, m...@alignedsolutions.com writes:
A few decades ago I worked with some quite large Telecom
Sonnenschein has a nice application note on AGM Learned a lot talking with
their experts 15 years ago, now retired
http://www.sonnenschein.org/PDF%20files/GelHandbookPart1.pdf some trivia
before Unification Berlin had a huge Sonnenschein Battery Bank to prevent power
We have done exactly that not a week at a time because we have enough high
resolution and did it in 1 Volt steps down to 20 V no change. Current stays the
same. Bert Kehren In a message dated 9/25/2020 8:44:02 PM Eastern Standard
Time, p...@phk.freebsd.dk writes:
Mark Spencer writes:
Victron Energy has a nice application book on their web site the have super
products, I used them on my 64 foot GOFAST. Besides products they also discuss
battery technologies and applications. My hard copy is 15 years old. Here is
the link in English
We use a LTC 1013 see LTC Application Note 3 page 6 at least 0.05 C. Good
enough for us. May still have a board would have to find it, Contact me off
list. Bert Kehren. In a message dated 9/25/2020 10:46:34 PM Eastern Standard
Time, hmur...@megapathdsl.net writes:
I've got a collection of
Does any one have information on the two thermistors in the 8600 and 8607.
Thanks Bert Kehren
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I used special order PVC Pipe with end caps, used the drilling mud to encase it
in the ground. The top cap had a U made up of PVC L's and was removable.
Initial tests where without any filling. Once convinced it worked I filled the
pipe with coin bags my local banker got me. Very strong canvas.
As backup I installed LH 5.0 on a laptop with Windows 7 Pro but no RS232. I
inserted an USB to Rs232 adapter and it recognizes it as com Port 6. LH shows
no com port. How can I switch it to com port 6? Thanks Bert Kehren
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Allow me to clarify my GPS involvement. In 1973 TI moved me from Houston to
Dallas to be part of the start up of calculators. This was followed by Marine
projects since our chairman was an avid sailor. While working on Loran C my
boss walked in one day and told me that at a staff meeting he had
there early.
Bob
> On Aug 10, 2020, at 5:09 AM, ew via time-nuts
> wrote:
>
> Attached are two pictures from my TI days as program Manager of the first
> GPS. There was no discussions of consumer use or timing application. Focus
> was on military application being ab
10 years ago I started a project to try to improve on the 5065A by buying an
Optical Unit in Europe and only use the temperature control boards. Temperature
control with a fan and aging with a DAC based on 20 year experience with my
FRK. Age, move and Macular hole in the left eye ended that
Having one of the best HP5065A Rb's that Corby has seen right at 4 E-14 at 200
and 400 sec. I have been hands off. My age and macular hole on my right eye has
impacted my hardware work. A recent test also shows very low aging over a 9
month period. But last September my environmental monitor
It is taken
In a message dated 7/13/2020 4:56:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
time-nuts@lists.febo.com writes:
I was given a working with new capacitors EEG TS RFS. Have no use for it but if
some one wants it for the cost of shipping be glad to send it . Off list please.
I opened it up, impressed
I was given a working with new capacitors EEG TS RFS. Have no use for it but if
some one wants it for the cost of shipping be glad to send it . Off list please.
I opened it up, impressed with the optical unit, has any one analysed it,
with EEG space history is it more than what we find in
161 and 163 are candidates. Back in the early 70's my favorite for my counter
work was the 74S112 dual JK. So I went to DigiKey to check on CD74AC112 they
have in stock so with two of those along with an AND gate you can make as many
divide as 5 as you need. Just like the S112 it clocks over
Once I get my OSA 8607 back I plan on mounting it along with a FRK/M100 RB in a
HP chassis. Attached a picture of a vibration mount for the OSA. Very soft.
Can not be used for the Rb because of weight but also vibration mounted. The Rb
is fan cooled with a Sunon MagLev 80X80x15 30db(A)
Two 74HC393N and one 74HC86N Dip all for less than $ 2 will do the job
Bert Kehren
In a message dated 6/21/2020 3:57:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
k8yumdoo...@gmail.com writes:
Can you stand a few 10's of nano-Hz error in the 162 kHz signal? If so, a
48-bit
DDS can get you that close to 162
On the 15 MHz FE 405 we use an XOR and two Flip Flops to divide by 3 with a
symmetrical output. Four of these will give you symmetry and divide by 81
Bert Kehren
In a message dated 6/19/2020 8:14:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, kb...@n1k.org
writes:
Hi
The biggest issue is that there are so
This is a must read. Could not put it down, JPL, NASA, Eisenhowe,r did learn a
lot at the same time fascinating
Bert Kehren
In a message dated 5/22/2020 10:36:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jim...@earthlink.net writes:
Apparently, they used moonbounce between DSN stations to synchronize to 5
Thanks Mark for reminding me, spend 3 hours this morning reviewing designs to
be released. Found a couple of problems. Also went back to look at the OCXO
boards I released in 2018, found a problem on the board with no Amp, the SMA is
not grounded. Easy to fix, but if some one wants new Gerber
You give away your age, was there did a lot of it and off to the repro shop and
than the board manufacturer. All local in Houston.
Bert Kehren
In a message dated 5/13/2020 10:39:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,
w...@triconet.org writes:
Thank you to all who have written, on and off list, with
All three seam to be Chinese customer specific devices with focus on time. I
bought three of the Trimble units we call them Tbolt 2 because of design
similarities. On LH you will notice one thing like the original Tbolt it shows
frequency jumps of 1 E -10 but also once every hour it does a
If you have an extra 10811 use it as an offset all mine tune 20 Hz + and I have
used it as offset at 5 MHz , 10 Hz at 10 MHz all will do.
Bert Kehren
In a message dated 4/13/2020 5:07:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, tplu...@ieee.org
writes:
Hi Bob
awesome, thanks! of course it is 1e6, not 1e7, I
A couple of years ago Time Tech was selling a OSA 8607 GPSDO with an AV of 8
E-14. AXTAL has one. Takes a lot of characterization, fully understand and
constantly compensate the OCXO and continous GPS monitoring for more than 24
hours. W. Schaefer has the smarts. Does not have the aging of a
It is very simple to do. Warren did it I think seven years ago and we have done
it repeatedly in the last 4 years. Take the EFC that goes to the OCXO to the C
field control and Tbolt can determine and automatically adjust to frequency per
Volt. You can also adjust the time constant. Tbolt is
Please contact me direct off list
In a message dated 2/27/2020 4:46:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
time-n...@welwarsky.de writes:
On Donnerstag, 27. Februar 2020 19:16:22 CET ew via time-nuts wrote:
> Matthias where are you located. I am in the US but I have some partners in
> crime th
Matthias where are you located. I am in the US but I have some partners in
crime that may be able to help you with AV testing ewkeh...@aol.com
Bert Kehren
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The first HP10544 I held in my hand was 10.23 MHz part of the GPS project.
Bert Kehren
In a message dated 2/26/2020 4:26:42 AM Eastern Standard Time,
time-nuts@lists.febo.com writes:
For a DIY project I'd like a 5.115 MHz OCXO. That weird-looking number is half
the basic 10.23 MHz GPS chip
You missed my favorite HP5345A only direct 500 MHz and internal 500 MHz, only
recently replaced it with 53132A still use it for 40 GHz work
Bert Kehren
In a message dated 2/21/2020 7:27:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mag...@rubidium.se writes:
Hi Taka,
On 2020-02-21 04:45, Taka Kamiya via
Juerg and I have a few FRK and M100 along with spare bulbs to cover our
remaining life. We have done extensive testing and learned a lot. We for
instance have experimented with loop time constant 0.1 to 20 seconds and have
found out that the best AV is with 1 second. We also did consider
I think a member has been working on it with a couple of 5065's. I think it
would be easier with FRK and M100, many around with bad or weak lamps. Easy
access to lamp and optics. We have some ideas but booked for the next 9
months.Bert Kehren
In a message dated 2/17/2020 7:17:00 PM Eastern
,
megaflu...@gmail.com writes:
Hi Bert,
Make sure to measure the noise on the Traco (on both input and output)
We had some issue with noise from a couple of Traco models at work. We
changed to Mean Well, and much less noise
Br,
Askild
On Sat, Feb 8, 2020 at 8:10 PM ew via time-nuts
wrote
Just got this in the mail I am sure they have related items.
We use with very good results Mean Well SD DC/DC products, for my Rb 8607
project I plan on using Traco Power
The easiest way to do it is with an ICS 512 or ICS 570. We use the 570 all the
time
Bert Kehren
In a message dated 1/18/2020 7:34:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, m...@hau.nz
writes:
Hi time nuts,
I'm looking for a 5x frequency multiplication scheme to let me use a16-MHz
square-wave OCXO for an
There is a HP5065A with date code 28 on ebay looks like new 12 hours to go
Bert Kehren
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Looking through piles of manuals I found proceedings of frequency and time and
frequency meetings I attended as part of my job, between 75 and 79. Each at
least an inch thick. Is some one archiving the proceedings. Like them to find a
home. Contact me off list
Bert Kehren
In a message dated
We are spending most of our time to find the best clean up loop, work includes
EFOS 3 and 4. If would be nice if some one can share info on the 1050A we would
duplicate and test
Thanks Bert Kehren
In a message dated 11/25/2019 9:39:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
act...@hotmail.com writes:
I would look at ionizer and Ionizer circuit. In the past I would see ion
current increase when ionizer turned on.
Bert Kehren
In a message dated 11/3/2019 11:40:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
paulsw...@gmail.com writes:
Jim
Is there any hope. I would believe so. CS tubes are pretty tough. As
How does
https://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/Serial-Cards-Adapters/micro-usb-serial-adapter-android~ICUSBANDR232
do it? Once every thing else works I may buy one.
Bert Kehren
In a message dated 10/22/2019 9:06:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
shali...@gmail.com writes:
The tablet will
Thank you Didier.
Some of us are serious time nuts that means our measurements exceed 24 hours.
When GPS is involved 48 hours is a minimum. Unless you have a Cs fountain
sooner or later you go back to GPS. Between Juerg and me we have at any time 4
PC based computers running. Some tests go
Thanks to Didier and his endless pations I have FA2 working on my $ 25 7 inch
RCA tablet . If unlike me you know what you are doing it takes less than a
minute
Bert Kehren
http://www.ko4bb.com/Android/USBLogger_v002.apk
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ing.
What are you interested in displaying?
Didier KO4BB
On Sun, Sep 29, 2019 at 2:12 PM ew via time-nuts
wrote:
> Didier FA2 is USBBert
> In a message dated 9/29/2019 12:02:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> shali...@gmail.com writes:
>
> Android tablets support serial com via USB.
to capture the
data in some format.
Didier KO4BB
On Sun, Sep 29, 2019, 6:25 AM ew via time-nuts
wrote:
>
>
> We use Serial com to interface with a PC It would be nice if some one
> could find a way to transfer the data to a tablet.
>
> T
a
year or two ago) so you would need more hardware to get the data into an
IOs device.
What do you want to do with the data in a tablet?
I write Android apps so I may be able to help if you need to capture the
data in some format.
Didier KO4BB
On Sun, Sep 29, 2019, 6:25 AM ew via time-nuts
We use Serial com to interface with a PC It would be nice if some one could
find a way to transfer the data to a tablet.
Thanks Bert Kehren
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Did receive FA2 counter today. Everything as promised, like the 10 second mode
best.Use a Datum 2000 as source 10 MHz in the back 5 MHz in the front reliable
+- 1 on the last 12th digit.
Bert Kehren
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One dual D with an XOR gives you a 50% duty cycle
Bert Kehren
In a message dated 9/18/2019 10:09:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,
bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz writes:
Dual JK flipflop configured as divide by 3 producing a 33% duty cycle 5MHz
output which is filtered to extract the 10MHz second
PaulThe easiest way is one or two ICS512 or ICS570B we use the 570
extensively. Digi Key and ebay have both
Bert Kehren
In a message dated 9/8/2019 10:49:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,
p...@bicknells.f2s.com writes:
Dear all
Can any one point me in the direction of a circuit that can convert
5
across one
Am I correct that Tracor 527 & ADRAT 4110 are the only Frequency difference
units available ?
PS there is one of each available on Ebay
Regards Paul
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] On Behalf Of ew
via time-nuts
Sent: 06 Septe
ever
come across one
Am I correct that Tracor 527 & ADRAT 4110 are the only Frequency difference
units available ?
PS there is one of each available on Ebay
Regards Paul
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] On Behalf Of ew
via time-nuts
Sent
Juerg has two I have one love it also have Tracor 527 each. Same performance
Tracor also works at 10 MHz and has a meter, comes in handy.
Bert Kehren
In a message dated 9/6/2019 2:12:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
p...@bicknells.f2s.com writes:
Dear all
Could any one let me have there
2019 14:22:22 + (UTC)
ew via time-nuts wrote:
> Are wee missing something. Reading Bill Slade post and old NASA
> attachments the attached plot to me was an eye opener. Our work
> has always been focused on Rb pressure compensation. Are we
> overlooking something. Has any one do
Are wee missing something. Reading Bill Slade post and old NASA attachments the
attached plot to me was an eye opener. Our work has always been focused on Rb
pressure compensation. Are we overlooking something. Has any one done some work
on this subject
Thanks Bert Kehren
517.pdf
In all our critical work we use the LTC6957,we call it the Bruce circuit, only
problem at 78 and 80 difficult to solder
Bert Kehren
In a message dated 7/27/2019 4:04:50 AM Eastern Standard Time,
bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz writes:
The LTC6957 is a better choice for squaring up sinewaves:
offended by your post.
respectfully,
Robert LaJeunesse
> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2019 at 6:26 AM
> From: "ew via time-nuts"
> To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> Cc: ew
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Advantages of GNSS ???
>
> Dana
> This was in response to Mark Sins " I
near the upper right corner.
And why does it look like several of the components have been resoldered
or replaced or something?
Dana
On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 8:00 PM ew via time-nuts
wrote:
> Well now you can see one
> Bert Kehren
>
>
> In a message dated 7/8/2019 7:02:07 PM Eastern
Well now you can see one
Bert Kehren
In a message dated 7/8/2019 7:02:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
hol...@hotmail.com writes:
A big issue with using the sawtooth correction message from a GPS receivers is
the issue of just what that sawtooth value is related to and how to apply it to
the
Just received 50 PCB's in 36 hours via DHL from Hong Kong and in the last 18
Month two HP 5065A in less than 48 hours from Israel. How ever shipping
from the US USPS is the best.
Bert Kehren
In a message dated 7/4/2019 4:05:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
time-nuts@lists.febo.com writes:
USE DHLBert Kehren
In a message dated 7/4/2019 3:00:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
james.schatz...@ac0xu.com writes:
Anyone have suggestions about how to buy equipment from out of the country
without getting US Customs delays? I have the impression that precision timing
devices are on some kind
There is a Trimbo GPSDO on ebay. We have a couple. 252162780444 look to me
a later version of the Tbolt, has an additional board with Power and
amplifiers. One 10 MHz is TTL and the other sine wave. Use the TTL for the
counter.There is an other one on Auction, looks identical has two
I originally did it for Lars but the results are an eye opener and fits nicely
in our GPSDO evaluations. A 24 hour test starts at 6 AM all my tests start at
the same time. Hope to have a plot by 8 to morrow.Bert
In a message dated 4/4/2019 8:03:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
j99har...@gmail.com
...@gmail.com writes:
Bert
Have to say I like the construction method. Guessing you shifted it to the
middle picture.
Can you please tell me what the middle box with the -12 counter is?
Regards
Paul
On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 4:00 PM ew via time-nuts
wrote:
> Recently Lars GPSDO came up on time nuts
David
We have a couple of your boards and repeatedly go back using them One thing for
us all the music is at 5 MHz, result we have to multiply adding one more source
for variance.5 and 1 MHz output are not important.
Is there a relative easy way to convert to 5 MHz.Thank youBert Kehren
A123 7Ah "brick" LiFePO4 who is the vendor?Bert Kehrren
In a message dated 3/8/2019 4:03:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jim...@earthlink.net writes:
On 3/8/19 5:38 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote:
> Hi
>
> If you are headed into a “cost is no object” sort of battery backup bank for
> the lab / shelter
of a Lithium Ion battery?
Hope all is well.
Joe
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] On Behalf Of ew via
time-nuts
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2019 3:37 PM
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: ew
Subject: [time-nuts] Li Ion Battery for HP 5065A
Having
Having recently acquired a HP 5065A with clock I decided to put a battery in
it. My choice is 5000 mA Lithium Ion. Having in the past very good experience
with a Florida vendor, was first choice. Sadly he is going out of business.
90+% out there is junk, have 26650s with 1800 mA. Last week
Had in North Miami Beach that problems at some friends Condos. Used several
times the sewer vent pipe every home seems to have. In one critical case
(unfriendly neighbors) with flat roof cut the pipe off three inches from the
roof used a coupling to the old cut off top pipe but drilled holes in
1 - 100 of 119 matches
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