I want to say some things about the ES100 development kits we offer in our
Universal-Solder online store.
First of all, please keep in mind that the entire development was done to
fix reception issues with the older AM standard. When the WWV stations were
installed, there wasn't a remarkable
In message , Club-Intern
et Clemgill writes:
>- One bit only is coded per second in each minute => 59 bits available
>because...
>- 59th second is silent (no phase modulation)
I belive this is wrong.
The timecode (substantially the same as DCF77) occupies only one
bit (the first) in
Hi,
The Allouis phase modulation is as follows :
- sawtooth phase shift of the 162kHz carrier with 40rad/sec slope => +/- 1 rad
shift => +/- 6,36Hz carrier frequency shift
- sequence of full sawtooth periods of length 100msec => frequency 10Hz
- one full period sawtooth codes a « 0 » bit
- two
I also ordered one of the EverSet Dev Boards.
Pricey for a one IC "glop-top" package, but I would like to see how it
performs.
But, I could not duplicate quantity one for the price, either.
I also note that they sold out about mid day yesterday, so Tom's
announcement cleaned them out.
As far as
Hi
The “good sound card” in this case is indeed not quite as easy to find
as one might think. Most people playing with audio rarely are concerned
once you get past 20KHz or so. Finding a card that stays quiet past
40 KHz can be tough. Even on a 192 KHz card, one can find anti-alias
filters
There is a problem with most pre-amplifiers and also particularly with
anything up font of the sampling; to get good data the amplitude of the
sampled signal has to have relative high levels, comparable to
microphone output level -- up to 50mV -- if one wanted to use the sound
cart input.
Hi,
On 12/5/18 5:41 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>
> In message <4cf174e2-47fa-1013-b617-c66fc188f...@rubidium.dyndns.org>, Magnus
> D
> anielson writes:
>
The Loran-C/Chayka plug-in does not calculate position, so already there
would be some fun little mini-project to
Hi,
On 12/5/18 4:27 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>
> In message , Magnus
> D
> anielson writes:
>
>> Looking at it using a Kiwi receiver just north of Stockholm, it comes in
>> nice and clean with 100 Hz sidebands from what looks like a PM whose 4th
>> sideband is nearly suppressed, so
In message , Magnus D
anielson writes:
>Looking at it using a Kiwi receiver just north of Stockholm, it comes in
>nice and clean with 100 Hz sidebands from what looks like a PM whose 4th
>sideband is nearly suppressed, so is 8th, 12/13, 21... so slightly more
>that 4th and multiples.
It
Hi,
On 12/5/18 3:47 PM, Attila Kinali wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Dec 2018 06:29:01 -0800
> "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" wrote:
>
>> Interesting: isn't 162 kHz within the European
>> Long Wave Broadcast Band? Wouldn't there be a
>> problem with QRM from these megawatt stations?
>> Excuse the naive
On Wed, 5 Dec 2018 06:29:01 -0800
"Richard (Rick) Karlquist" wrote:
> Interesting: isn't 162 kHz within the European
> Long Wave Broadcast Band? Wouldn't there be a
> problem with QRM from these megawatt stations?
> Excuse the naive questions; we don't have longwave
> in the states, so no
On 12/4/2018 6:29 PM, Gilles Clement wrote:
Hi,
In France the carrier frequency is 162khz (Allouis)
Phase modulated over one minute.
Gilles.
Interesting: isn't 162 kHz within the European
Long Wave Broadcast Band? Wouldn't there be a
problem with QRM from these megawatt stations?
Excuse the
Hey Poul-Henning!
On Tue, 04 Dec 2018 22:56:54 +
"Poul-Henning Kamp" wrote:
> And the BPSK does improve timing.
>
> If you have access to, and tracks the carrier, you can nail the
> timing all the way down to 1/your_sample_rate.
Yes, but the same is true for pure AM modulation. If you
On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 14:44:38 -0800
jimlux wrote:
> 17 passive components and 4 active components. plus the loopstick and
> tuning cap. I think you'd need pretty substantial volumes to get the
> "assembled and delivered" price below $20.
Oh. Sorry, I misunderstood. My design was never intended
Hi Bob,
On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 16:43:57 -0500
Bob kb8tq wrote:
> The one thing the Everest chips do indeed do is demonstrate that initial
> signal
> acquisition can be done under really awful conditions. Getting the same info
> off
> of WWVB with AM only …. not so much ….At least not so much
On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 21:42:41 +
Gregory Maxwell wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 9:22 PM Attila Kinali wrote:
> > known bits in the BPSK signal are the first 12 bits of each minute.
>
> This seems transparently incorrect to me. If your receiver has access
> to only a tiny chunk of signal and
measurement
; Bob kb8tq
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] new WWVB BPSK dev board
>We’ve been chatting about how drop dead simple it is to spend a couple
>minutes and come up with a SDR for the new modulation for …. ummm …..
>errr …. how many years now? :) So far not a lot has turned
Christmas sketching out some designs ...
Thanks - John
-Original Message-
From: Poul-Henning Kamp [mailto:p...@phk.freebsd.dk]
Sent: 4 December, 2018 11:03 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
; John Moran, Scawby Design
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] new WWVB BPSK
I feel guilty now:-)
Obviously MSF is strong up here but I was able to receive it from Rugby when I
first moved north using a directional LF antenna and was under the impression
coverage was still ok throughout the UK, although it seems I was wrong on that.
The French station is TDF transmitted
In message
,
"John Moran, Scawby Design"
writes:
>I think I will get distracted over Christmas sketching out some designs ...
Grab som I+Q samples from a kiwisdr somewhere and start playing with
signals instead.
If you like it, start making hardware.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp |
On 12/4/18 8:09 PM, David G. McGaw wrote:
Actually, an RTL-SDR can because there is direct access to the ADC
available by soldering to internal pads:
www.rtl-sdr.com/rtl-sdr-direct-sampling-mode/ That will give you 8-bit,
14.4Msps.
I'm not sure a 8bit ADC gives enough dynamic range, even
Maybe the link came through the list OK?
On 12/4/18 11:16 PM, David G. McGaw wrote:
> Sorry about that garbled link. Blame Dartmouth's over-zealous IT. Just
> look for "rtl-sdr direct sampling mode" at rtl-sdr dot com.
>
>
> On 12/4/18 11:09 PM, David G. McGaw wrote:
>> Actually, an RTL-SDR can
Sorry about that garbled link. Blame Dartmouth's over-zealous IT. Just
look for "rtl-sdr direct sampling mode" at rtl-sdr dot com.
On 12/4/18 11:09 PM, David G. McGaw wrote:
> Actually, an RTL-SDR can because there is direct access to the ADC
> available by soldering to internal pads:
>
Any of the RSPs from SDRPlay will cover it and they are great units,
starting at $109 US. I am literally using an RSP1A right now.
David N1AHC
On 12/4/18 9:08 PM, W7SLS wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Great discussion on this and other topics here.
>
> Just looked up the specs for the SDRPlay RSP2:
>
Actually, an RTL-SDR can because there is direct access to the ADC
available by soldering to internal pads:
www.rtl-sdr.com/rtl-sdr-direct-sampling-mode/ That will give you 8-bit,
14.4Msps.
But as has also been said, a good sound card sampling 24 bits at 192kHz
can be used.
David N1HAC
On
Hello,
Great discussion on this and other topics here.
Just looked up the specs for the SDRPlay RSP2:
1 kHz to 2 GHz.
Should be fine for 60 kHz.
Now to look closer at previous posts for 60 kHz antennas, how to get raw data
out of the RSP2 (other than pretty pictures), and see where it
t; -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] On Behalf Of
> gandalfg8--- via time-nuts
> Sent: 04 December 2018 12:12
> To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> Cc: gandal...@aol.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] new WWVB BPSK dev board
>
> Hi
between the 2
Also Looking for a rabid
Best regards Paul
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] On Behalf Of
gandalfg8--- via time-nuts
Sent: 04 December 2018 12:12
To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: gandal...@aol.com
Subject: [time-nuts] new WWVB
On 04/12/18 23:08, jimlux wrote:
On 12/4/18 2:52 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message <20181204224816.bfef2926d942b52db8061...@kinali.ch>, Attila
Kinali writes:
On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 13:12:48 -0800
jimlux wrote:
I maintain that it's the lack of a cheap RF front end that is the
On 12/4/18 2:52 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message <20181204224816.bfef2926d942b52db8061...@kinali.ch>, Attila Kinali
writes:
On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 13:12:48 -0800
jimlux wrote:
I maintain that it's the lack of a cheap RF front end that is the sticky point.
Then you have
On 12/4/18 2:28 PM, John Moran, Scawby Design wrote:
I'm a little puzzled as to why people keep calling 60kHz - 'RF'. Many Hi-Fi
audio amplifiers go higher than that.
As for an 'RF' front end, there are dozens of off-the-shelf op-amps that can
amplify the signal from a tuned ferrite rod
In message
,
"John Moran, Scawby Design"
writes:
>However, fast A-Ds are not particularly cheap and you would need
>circa 50MHz sample rate to resolve 1deg of the carrier, and TVB has
>already stated that there are no time benefits to BPSK, so this is
>all just an interesting
In message <20181204222100.293dc3259cf1d8683daec...@kinali.ch>, Attila Kinali
writes:
>BPSK by itself does not improve timing. At most it improves reception
>by having a constant power envelope. But in case of WWVB, where
>the AM modulation is still kept, this is not the case. The phase
In message <20181204224816.bfef2926d942b52db8061...@kinali.ch>, Attila Kinali
writes:
>On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 13:12:48 -0800
>jimlux wrote:
>
>> I maintain that it's the lack of a cheap RF front end that is the sticky
>> point.
Then you have misunderstood how little you actually need.
I'm a little puzzled as to why people keep calling 60kHz - 'RF'. Many Hi-Fi
audio amplifiers go higher than that.
As for an 'RF' front end, there are dozens of off-the-shelf op-amps that can
amplify the signal from a tuned ferrite rod aerial sufficiently to then feed
into a decent A-D and then
On 12/4/18 1:48 PM, Attila Kinali wrote:
On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 13:12:48 -0800
jimlux wrote:
I maintain that it's the lack of a cheap RF front end that is the sticky
point.
Doing a 2-3 stage transistor based amplifier should give the signal
enough gain to be sampled with the ADC of a uC. I have
Hi
Given the large “fade” of WWVB over a 24 hour period (it’s not always ground
wave ….) most decent receivers in the past have run a front end with AGC on it.
Indeed 24 bit ADC’s ( > 16 bit ENOB) are out there for not a massive amount of
money.
It is a bit unclear just how much fade you
On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 13:12:48 -0800
jimlux wrote:
> I maintain that it's the lack of a cheap RF front end that is the sticky
> point.
Doing a 2-3 stage transistor based amplifier should give the signal
enough gain to be sampled with the ADC of a uC. I have such a design
sitting around, that I
Hi
Again to re-go over what has been said in the past:
Unless they start filling the “extra” bits on the WWVB signal with something
(are they doing this ) the whole modulation pattern is predictable. Once
you know what time it is “now” what happens from then on can all be calculated.
I
On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 9:22 PM Attila Kinali wrote:
> known bits in the BPSK signal are the first 12 bits of each minute.
This seems transparently incorrect to me. If your receiver has access
to only a tiny chunk of signal and no idea of anything else then yes,
but that isn't a realistic
Hi
So, backing off a bit:
Assuming you are going to compare two data points a bit over 24 hours apart
(100,000 seconds):
Accuracy of reading pairResult pp Result
sci
100 ms 1 ppm 1x10^-6
10 ms
Moin,
On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 18:11:30 -0800
"Tom Van Baak" wrote:
> At long last, a complete WWVB 60 kHz BPSK dev board is available:
>
> https://universal-solder.ca/product/everset-es100-cob-wwvb-60khz-bpsk-receiver-kit-with-2-antennas/
>
> Note it includes the antenna(s). Also has links to
On 12/4/18 12:21 PM, Bob kb8tq wrote:
Hi
We’ve been chatting about how drop dead simple it is to spend a couple minutes
and come
up with a SDR for the new modulation for …. ummm ….. errr …. how many years
now? :)
So far not a lot has turned up.
if someone will digitize the signal at some
>We’ve been chatting about how drop dead simple it is to spend a couple minutes
>and come
>up with a SDR for the new modulation for …. ummm ….. errr …. how many years
>now? :)
>So far not a lot has turned up.
All I can say is that people dont know what they're missing ;-)
--
Hi
We’ve been chatting about how drop dead simple it is to spend a couple minutes
and come
up with a SDR for the new modulation for …. ummm ….. errr …. how many years
now? :)
So far not a lot has turned up.
Bob
> On Dec 4, 2018, at 3:14 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>
>
> In message
In message <63462681-f5d7-0282-ef5b-82e8332d0...@dartmouth.edu>, "David G.
McGaw" writes:
>BTW, I have been told it has also been successfully tested for lock in Brazil.
> Is there anyone in Australia want to give it a try? Perth is almost directly
>opposite Fort Collins. :-)
Write
That is the specified jitter. They have also said in communications that it
has about 50mS resolution. That is as close as they are willing to say a
system can be synchronized with it. Perhaps someone will discover a clever way
to enhance that.
BTW, I have been told it has also been
> As was said, IRQ delay is +/-100 mS from the second edge, hardly what a
> Time-Nut is looking for.
There is no problem with a delay as long as it is constant. If I know what it
is, then I can correct for it.
The problem is the noise/jitter on the delay. I'm sure somebody will have
data
As was said, IRQ delay is +/-100 mS from the second edge, hardly what a
Time-Nut is looking for.
David
On 12/4/18 1:07 PM, Hal Murray wrote:
>> The one thing I wish is that there were access to the synchronized analog
>> signal and/or a 1PPS. Even a top of the minute would be useful. It
> The one thing I wish is that there were access to the synchronized analog
> signal and/or a 1PPS. Even a top of the minute would be useful. It only
> has the I2C digital interface.
It also has an IRQ signal.
The data sheet said it's 100 ms after the second, but I didn't see any
On 12/4/18 9:00 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote:
Because of the Q of WWVB's transmit antenna (at least 300 by my back of the
envelope estimates), I don't think we could ever claim a WWVB PPS edge
sharper than 5 milliseconds and that might be optimistic.
Sure you can.. you do a matched filter to the
On 12/4/18 8:59 AM, Adrian Godwin wrote:
I understand why a low-volume shipment of what started as a board costing a
few pennies costs $50, but does that simply mean that low-cost parts aren't
the right answer for this sort of application ?
How would an SDR based on a raspberry pi zero, a
I ordered one, too. It looks like there's an IRQ line that goes low +/- 100 ms
of the second mark. It will be interesting to see how stable that is in real
life.
On Dec 4, 2018, 11:27 AM, at 11:27 AM, "Majdi S. Abbas" wrote:
>$69 CAD is roughly $50 USD.
>
>Expensive for what it is but easier
Because of the Q of WWVB's transmit antenna (at least 300 by my back of the
envelope estimates), I don't think we could ever claim a WWVB PPS edge
sharper than 5 milliseconds and that might be optimistic.
Tim N3QE
On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 11:49 AM Bob kb8tq wrote:
> Hi
>
> The I2C clock rate is
I understand why a low-volume shipment of what started as a board costing a
few pennies costs $50, but does that simply mean that low-cost parts aren't
the right answer for this sort of application ?
How would an SDR based on a raspberry pi zero, a suitable ADC and a tuned
rx circuit compare ?
It does a very good job of pulling the signal out of the noise. It
works in NH, traditionally a fringe region, in all but the most shielded
of rooms. I also had occasion to test it for Everset in Kangerlussuaq,
Greenland. I found it had no trouble acquiring at any time of the day.
If the
Hi
The I2C clock rate is going to matter a bit in terms of what you can achieve.
Since the device is targeted at low power, the max practical baud rate may
not be very high. I2C can have a lot of wait in it ... There are a lot of
registers
dumped after each “reception attempt”.
There also is
Thanks for the heads up Tom! I ordered one and if it comes before the end
of the year I may have some time over the holidays to do acquisition test
from Maryland and maybe some cross-comparison with GPS PPS.
Here in Maryland I have somewhat unreliable reception on commercial
non-BPSK WWVB clocks
Majdi good for you. You will have fun. OK precision thats a slippery slope.
The documentation will indicate the sequence time and length and as I
recall the chip produces a result every 90 seconds using the long phase.
There is a short phase after you have acquired that is something like 30
$69 CAD is roughly $50 USD.
Expensive for what it is but easier to work with than gutting a working clock
and no more expensive.
I ordered one. Curious to see what sort of precision we can get from an i2c
interface.
If nothing else I suppose I can toss a six digit i2c 7 segment module at it
I assume thats exactly the case. I also thought it was pretty high.
The actual clocks are about $50 or less I believe. So the board seems a bit
off.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 12:03 AM Eric Garner wrote:
> This seems relatively expensive for a little wirebonded board of this
Hi Paul,
It was shifted over 11 years ago, very obligingly timed to follow my move from
the South East to Scotland:-),
so I suspect any resulting propogational changes would have been well
documented by now.
Nigel GM8PZR
Hi thank you Bob for the mail
Do you realise the 60 Khz
riginal Message-
> > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] On Behalf Of
> Tom
> > Van Baak
> > Sent: 04 December 2018 02:12
> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> > Subject: [time-nuts] new WWVB BPSK dev board
>
...@lists.febo.com] On Behalf Of Tom
Van Baak
Sent: 04 December 2018 02:12
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] new WWVB BPSK dev board
At long last, a complete WWVB 60 kHz BPSK dev board is available:
https://universal-solder.ca/product/everset-es100-cob
:38
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] new WWVB BPSK dev board
Hi
The interference "front" turns out to be over the US rather than over the
UK. Power,
distance, and propagation all get into the "why". The answer is that you get
c
02:12
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: [time-nuts] new WWVB BPSK dev board
>
> At long last, a complete WWVB 60 kHz BPSK dev board is available:
>
> https://universal-solder.ca/product/everset-es100-cob-wwvb-60khz-bpsk-receiv
> er-kit-with-2-an
and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] new WWVB BPSK dev board
At long last, a complete WWVB 60 kHz BPSK dev board is available:
https://universal-solder.ca/product/everset-es100-cob-wwvb-60khz-bpsk-receiv
er-kit-with-2-antennas/
Note it includes the antenna(s). Also has links
At long last, a complete WWVB 60 kHz BPSK dev board is available:
https://universal-solder.ca/product/everset-es100-cob-wwvb-60khz-bpsk-receiver-kit-with-2-antennas/
Note it includes the antenna(s). Also has links to documentation.
It would be very nice if a bunch of time nuts around the
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