[tor-dev] Proposal: Padding for netflow record resolution reduction

2015-08-20 Thread Mike Perry
Filename: xxx-netflow-padding.txt Title: Padding for netflow record resolution reduction Authors: Mike Perry Created: 20 August 2015 Status: Draft 0. Motivation It is common practice by many ISPs to record data about the activity of endpoints that use their uplink, if nothing else for billing

Re: [tor-dev] Hash Visualizations to Protect Against Onion Phishing

2015-08-20 Thread Jeff Burdges
A per browser salt is a wonderful idea. It's basically impossible to fake even small key poems or whatever if you cannot guess their salt. Just some thoughts : - The salt should be a text field users can interact with easily. It could be displayed prominently in the extensions config, or eve

[tor-dev] 6th status report for OnioNS

2015-08-20 Thread Jesse V
This status report covers three main points of progress for the Onion Name System (OnioNS) project. 1) Since my last report, I opened up this project for beta testing. The server logs show that a number of people opened and ran servers for some time, and a number of individuals claimed names f

Re: [tor-dev] moved from [Tor-censorship-events] Improving the censorship event detector.

2015-08-20 Thread George Danezis
Hi all, For all my sins I wrote parts of the algorithm that is at fault here. I also echo, and confirm all the problems mentioned. One thing that would greatly help tune such systems is a database of known censored periods from different jurisdictions. The issue is that "anomalies" occur all the

Re: [tor-dev] [RFC] On new guard algorithms and data structures

2015-08-20 Thread isis
George Kadianakis transcribed 5.2K bytes: > > - This new design focuses on protecting against path bias attacks, by slightly > damaging our reachability. > > Specifically, the old design is better at recovering in filtered networks, > because it will keep on adding new nodes till one succeed

Re: [tor-dev] Hash Visualizations to Protect Against Onion Phishing

2015-08-20 Thread Yawning Angel
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 04:39:14 +1000 teor wrote: [snip] > Visual schemes are only helpful to users who have the appropriate > level of visual ability or processing: > * as has already been mentioned, colouring schemes are not as useful > to the colourblind; > * facial recognition schemes are useles

Re: [tor-dev] Proposal: Merging Hidden Service Directories and Introduction Points

2015-08-20 Thread teor
> On 21 Aug 2015, at 04:36, s7r wrote: > > If we merge introduction points with HSDirs, we have no option but to > use the same introduction points, regardless how many INTRODUCE2 cells > we get through them, until the new shared-RNG consensus value (24 > hours normally, in case nothing bad happ

Re: [tor-dev] Hash Visualizations to Protect Against Onion Phishing

2015-08-20 Thread teor
> On 21 Aug 2015, at 02:56, Jesse V wrote: > > >> Jacek Wielemborek writes: >> >>> George Kadianakis pisze: Some real UX research needs to be done here, before we decide something terrible. >>> >>> Just curious, has anybody seen any cognitive studies on the SSH >>> randomart visua

Re: [tor-dev] Proposal: Merging Hidden Service Directories and Introduction Points

2015-08-20 Thread s7r
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi, Worth mentioning, after #15745 we rotate the introduction points after between 16384 and 32768 (random) introductions and/or a lifetime of 18 to 24 hours (random). If we merge introduction points with HSDirs, we have no option but to use the sa

Re: [tor-dev] moved from [Tor-censorship-events] Improving the censorship event detector.

2015-08-20 Thread l.m
Hi Joss, Thank you for the fine paper. I look forward to reading it. Karsten would be keen on it too (and maybe also your offer) if you haven't already forwarded it to them. My interest in fixing it is (mostly) recreational. I have some thoughts on how to proceed, but I'm not a representative of t

Re: [tor-dev] [RFC] On new guard algorithms and data structures

2015-08-20 Thread teor
> On 21 Aug 2015, at 00:07, s7r wrote: > > Can you suggest a retry amount and time interval? I think 10 times > once every 20 minutes for the Guards we selected but never connected > to and double or even triple that for the Guards we remember we were > once able to connect to is reasonable. Th

Re: [tor-dev] Proposal: Merging Hidden Service Directories and Introduction Points

2015-08-20 Thread George Kadianakis
Michael Rogers writes: > On 12/07/15 22:48, John Brooks wrote: >> 1.3. Other effects on proposal 224 >> >>An adversarial introduction point is not significantly more capable than a >>hidden service directory under proposal 224. The differences are: >> >> 1. The introduction point m

Re: [tor-dev] Hash Visualizations to Protect Against Onion Phishing

2015-08-20 Thread Jesse V
> Jacek Wielemborek writes: > >> George Kadianakis pisze: >>> Some real UX research needs to be done here, before we decide something >>> terrible. >> >> Just curious, has anybody seen any cognitive studies on the SSH >> randomart visualisation? I always found them impossible to remember. >> Per

Re: [tor-dev] [RFC] On new guard algorithms and data structures

2015-08-20 Thread l.m
> Thanks for the input! Hey, no problem. Thank you for working on this too. > Can you suggest a retry amount and time interval? If the adversary is at the gateway and can do filtering, they pretty much want some rotation. Whatever that reason may be (choose a guard you've already chosen, or choo

Re: [tor-dev] moved from [Tor-censorship-events] Improving the censorship event detector.

2015-08-20 Thread Joss Wright
On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 09:09:23AM -0400, l.m wrote: > Hi, > > As some of you may be aware, the mailing list for censorship events > was recently put on hold indefinitely. This appears to be due to the > detector providing too much false positive in it's current > implementation. It also raises th

Re: [tor-dev] Hash Visualizations to Protect Against Onion Phishing

2015-08-20 Thread Yawning Angel
On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 11:00:51 -0400 Ian Goldberg wrote: > On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 02:41:51PM +, Yawning Angel wrote: > > What would be useful here is the number of onion addresses an > > average user visits. If it's small, something like this would > > probably be sufficient: > > > > 0. Bro

Re: [tor-dev] Hash Visualizations to Protect Against Onion Phishing

2015-08-20 Thread Adam Shostack
On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 11:00:51AM -0400, Ian Goldberg wrote: | I'd caution about the poker hand, though. One year when I taught | first-year undergraduate CS, we included an assignment that had to do | with decks of cards and card games. A surprising number of people had | never seen decks of ca

Re: [tor-dev] Hash Visualizations to Protect Against Onion Phishing

2015-08-20 Thread Ian Goldberg
On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 02:41:51PM +, Yawning Angel wrote: > What would be useful here is the number of onion addresses an average > user visits. If it's small, something like this would probably be > sufficient: > > 0. Browser generates/stores a long term salt. > > 1. On onion access, cal

Re: [tor-dev] Hash Visualizations to Protect Against Onion Phishing

2015-08-20 Thread Yawning Angel
On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 17:02:24 +0300 George Kadianakis wrote: > Jacek Wielemborek writes: > > > W dniu 20.08.2015 o 15:49, George Kadianakis pisze: > >> Some real UX research needs to be done here, before we decide > >> something terrible. > > > > Just curious, has anybody seen any cognitive st

Re: [tor-dev] Hash Visualizations to Protect Against Onion Phishing

2015-08-20 Thread Jeff Burdges
I first learned about key poems here : https://moderncrypto.org/mail-archive/messaging/2014/000125.html If one wanted a more language agnostic system, then one could use a sequence of icons, but that's probably larger than doing a handful of languages. I once encountered an article claiming that

Re: [tor-dev] [RFC] On new guard algorithms and data structures

2015-08-20 Thread s7r
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi, Thanks for the input! On 8/20/2015 4:59 PM, l.m wrote: > >> "b) ..." > > Retrying guards is the crux of the problem. If you blindly retry > guards, even to prevent rotation, you eventually come to a hard > place where this will backfire badly

Re: [tor-dev] Hash Visualizations to Protect Against Onion Phishing

2015-08-20 Thread George Kadianakis
Jacek Wielemborek writes: > W dniu 20.08.2015 o 15:49, George Kadianakis pisze: >> Some real UX research needs to be done here, before we decide something >> terrible. > > Just curious, has anybody seen any cognitive studies on the SSH > randomart visualisation? I always found them impossible

Re: [tor-dev] [RFC] On new guard algorithms and data structures

2015-08-20 Thread l.m
> "a) The network is not hostile and allows access just fine, but..." This came up before didn't it. Nick mentioned that the question `network down` isn't the easiest question to answer portably. Supposing such a network could have it's properties (like route) enumerated this might provide anothe

Re: [tor-dev] Hash Visualizations to Protect Against Onion Phishing

2015-08-20 Thread Jacek Wielemborek
W dniu 20.08.2015 o 15:49, George Kadianakis pisze: > Some real UX research needs to be done here, before we decide something > terrible. Just curious, has anybody seen any cognitive studies on the SSH randomart visualisation? I always found them impossible to remember. Perhaps adding a bit mor

[tor-dev] Hash Visualizations to Protect Against Onion Phishing

2015-08-20 Thread George Kadianakis
Hello, this mail lays down an idea for a TBB UI feature that will make it slightly harder to launch phishing attacks against hidden services. The idea is based on hash visualizations like randomart [0] and key poems: --- | o=. |

Re: [tor-dev] [RFC] On new guard algorithms and data structures

2015-08-20 Thread s7r
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Also, we should choose a reasonable amount of retry attempts at reasonable time periods for the Guards in primary_guard_set, for the following reasons: a) The network is not hostile and allows access just fine, but: - - the user walked out the signa

[tor-dev] moved from [Tor-censorship-events] Improving the censorship event detector.

2015-08-20 Thread l.m
Hi, As some of you may be aware, the mailing list for censorship events was recently put on hold indefinitely. This appears to be due to the detector providing too much false positive in it's current implementation. It also raises the question of the purpose for such a mailing list. Who are the st

Re: [tor-dev] [RFC] On new guard algorithms and data structures

2015-08-20 Thread s7r
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Hi, On 8/20/2015 2:28 PM, George Kadianakis wrote: > Hello there, > > recently we've been busy specifying various important improvements > to entry guard security. For instance see proposals 250, 241 and > ticket #16861. > > Unfortunately, the c

Re: [tor-dev] [RFC] On new guard algorithms and data structures

2015-08-20 Thread l.m
Hello, > "To improve our algorithm and make it more robust we need to understand further what kind of path bias attacks are relevant here...What nasty attacks can this adversary do?" An gateway adversary which can filter the network can use guards to fingerprint you. This requires connecting to t

[tor-dev] [RFC] On new guard algorithms and data structures

2015-08-20 Thread George Kadianakis
Hello there, recently we've been busy specifying various important improvements to entry guard security. For instance see proposals 250, 241 and ticket #16861. Unfortunately, the current guard codebase is dusty and full of problems (see #12466, #12450). We believe that refactoring and cleaning up