Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
I would say Parabola is very easy to break though even if you are doing all the updates upgrades, etc... Hyperbola though doesn't have a graphical install yet... so that is also complicated. Devuan however is childs play for me. :) Still, I prefer Hyperbola any day of the week.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
If Patrick is ok to a rolling system Parabola/OpenRC is also recommended to him that’s rolling and nosystemd, otherwise please stick to Devuan and Hyperbola those are LTS and nosystemd. I use both of Parabola/OpenRC, Devuan, Hyperbola which I’m easy going alongside rolling and LTS systems. :) Read more for OpenRC: https://wiki.parabola.nu/OpenRC
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
I need to here remind Patrick once if you dnt want systemd you need to instead install Parabola, Devuan, Hyperbola, which I need to admit that systemd is quite complicated to config, with Parabola, Devuan, Hyperbola you will have a simple and modern init system named OpenRC under FreeBSD license from nonfree Gentoo. If you’ve decided to stay at PureOS and Trisquel just ask systemd people for your difficulities within systemd. Fedora people are quite friendly to this.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
My concern is that Uruk may not get cirtified, it's Trisquel with a slightly different ui.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
Jodiendo la bandera la puso ahí porque me gustó la calavera. No del PIP son unos cobardes vendidos. Nacionalista sangre o libertad
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
Freenix applied back in March 1, 2016 but were denied because the first name was similar to Slackware. The first name was FreeSlack. So they changed the name and they are waiting for the approval. They are still under the review process. That information was posted on their forum.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
Off-topic, but I notice there are now a number of libre distros that aren't in the FSF list, including FreeNix and ConnochaetOS mentioned here, as well as Uruk, Hyperbola, and Heads: https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html Is this because they don't meet the criteria, or because the process for updating the page is very slow? I'm guessing it's the latter because at least 3 of the distros currently listed are either dormant (Musix), discontinued (Dyne:Bolic), or strictly for masochists (BLAG).
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
GNU-BORICUA QUE ES ESO? LA CABEZA CALABERA DE TU ICONO! PREFIERO la banderita pipiola! LOL\ nO LO SUENES TAN ALTO EL DISPARATE PIPIOLO! lol que viva la estadidad 51!!
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
There is also ConnochaetOS which is supposed to be a liberated Slackware/Salix https://connochaetos.org/wiki/home
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
> Devuan actually booted faster on a 20 year old > libreboot laptop. for me also. (X200) The X200 is 10 years old, not 20. The X60 is 12 years old, and it has worked fine for me both with Upstart on Trisquel 7 and systemd on Trisquel 8. I haven't tried any other init systems, although I'm thinking of installing Parabola alongside Trisquel and may try the OpenRC version. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
No, FreeNix is a good idea.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
I am mixed up. What is biased? FreeNix? It seems like a good idea...
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
I have too, Devuan actually booted faster on a 20 year old libreboot laptop. for me also. (X200) I am hesitant to say more given the furher has many servants here at this point. I would prefer not to start another thread war over this, but yeah, I highly doubt its worth it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
This feels too biased for me. Sometimes people do after all, try to save face by showing faultly information. I could be wrong of course, but yeah... don't trust it myself.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
You can try Freenix (used to be FreeSlack) if you want a libre-sytem and systemd free. However, you have to comfortable dealing with a package manager that do not resolve dependencies.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
I suppose they might have made improvements since I learned of that tidbit, The only thing is, people should be able to switch init systems if they want on debian. And, some people want to do that and others are willing to do the work. Though I have witnessed first hand how hard it is, to switch to sysvinit on debian. Let's just say, I tried once and everything went black... I think other options should be available if people are willing to maintain them and want them.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
BTW for anyone interested, this forum has already discussed the systemd wars in some details here: https://trisquel.info/en/comment/reply/23010/120736
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
even do systemd IS PART AND APROVE BY fsf is not that popular as systenini is at the same time part of FSF IS ALL ABOUT DEVELOPERS PREFER USAGE. mE, iM STILL USE SYSTEINI BECAUSE ITS MORE SIMPLE AND IT TAKES LESS HARD DRIVE SPACE. CALL ME OLD FASHION, BUT LOOK AT THE CODE OF WRITING USING Systemd is bigger and occuoies more space, In systeninin still smaall lines to write,
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/systemd#Why_Debian_should_default_to_systemd https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/ "Embedded systems benefit from speed improvements, shell-less design, ability to remove optional components, and lower memory footprint."
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
>Yes, that is also my thought. I don't really understand why >debian switched to it, given that it isn't as good for older >hardware. meh... what can you do I suppose... I've used systemd on a 10 year old librebooted laptop and never had a problem. What is old hardware for you and what do you mean it "isn't as good for older hardware"?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
> I don't really understand why debian switched to it, given that it isn't as good for older hardware. What init system you use has nothing to do with hardware support. That is the kernel (Linux) and the kernel alone. As for not understanding why Debian switched to it, perhaps that should be an indication to you that you are not qualified to judge better than them what init system to use. It is a hallmark of stubbornness to reject an expert's decision without even understanding why said decision was made.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
Not everyone "Rejects systemd" as you say, some just don't want it while others are just frustrated that they have trouble escaping it. Yes there are people who are harsh on it, but the reverse is also true. Systemd people sometimes cannot stand people critcizing it. whether they support it, or are developing it. Things aren't always black and white man.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
This I agree with 100% Hyperbola is although a bit strange, the best way forward if you want to recieve updates regularly without systemd being in the way. ps, they do have systemd dummy packages but no, they are not real. its only so you can use gnome 3 and other stuff. ;)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
"I see systemd as solving a problem I don't have." Yes, that is also my thought. I don't really understand why debian switched to it, given that it isn't as good for older hardware. meh... what can you do I suppose...
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
Going by your forum picture, you don't look a day over 30 ;P
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
Linked from the second of those links (and probably also the first), rebuttals to most of the major anti-systemd talking points, written by members of the systemd team: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html I strongly recommend reading this in full, after reading a few anti-systemd articles.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
Hi Stypey WHy did I bring up lilo? That was dumb! Heee hee, I am 42 -Patrick
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
There is a saying that any new technology that comes out before you turn 30 is the greatest thing ever, and any that comes out after you turn 30 is a pointless disruption and probably the end of civilization. Most of your post gives me the impression you are over 30 (as am I) ;-P >> Just to add to the content of these, I see systemd as solving a problem I don't have. > I am just a regular guy The Canadian Government also screwed up our pay roll system for Government employees, I don't remember hearing anything that went wrong with the old one. > What's wrong with lilo ? Are the problems so terminal that they can't be fixed? > Why not stick to the unix principal of doing one thing and doing it well. > BTW I am also a Gnome Shell refugee, I liked Linux more in the GTK 2 era. Trisquel did a nice job with gnome back when the classic fallback still seemed to suck on Debian.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
Hi, thanks for responding to my post. The other Trisquel member sent some good links. Just to add to the content of these, I see systemd as solving a problem I don't have. I am just a regular guy, I am open minded with most things and I don't think anyone would consider my social or political views to be far from main stream, it's not like I think we should over turn women's right to vote or something but my views on computer science are ultra conservative. We keep talking about the Chinese Government hacking into various Government bodies/companies but we don't look at ourselves and ask why this is possible. I am in Canada and our version of the IRS, Canada Revenue had a small data breach with the Heart Bleed bug. I started my business in 2006 and Canada Revenues website was still static content. Things still worked. It seems that everything has to be online these days and newer is always better than older. The Canadian Government also screwed up our pay roll system for Government employees, I don't remember hearing anything that went wrong with the old one. What's wrong with lilo ? Are the problems so terminal that they can't be fixed? Why not stick to the unix principal of doing one thing and doing it well. systemd looks buggy and to be an unnecessary extension of the core job it is designed to replace. BTW I am also a Gnome Shell refugee, I liked Linux more in the GTK 2 era. Trisquel did a nice job with gnome back when the classic fallback still seemed to suck on Debian. -Patrick
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#Criticism http://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-and-others-on-linuxs-systemd/
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
Patrick, I've read some commentary from both sides of the Systemd wars and its all seems like a storm in a teacup to me. The anti-Systemd rants often remind me of the the anti-GNU/ anti-FSF fanatics I find on sites like this: https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/making-haiku-free-software/3084 Can you point me at some article that put forward sound technical reasons for rejecting Systemd? Ideally, articles that engage constructively with the rebuttals put forward by the pro-Systemd articles, rather than just accusing their authors of conspiracy or incompetence.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
>I want to stay as pure unix as possible, or as possible as >this can be with Linux which is not pure unix either. GNU/Linux AMOF, GNU's Not Unix.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
Hyperbola is the closest you will find to updated Trisquel without systemd - it is based on Arch (with Debian patches) without being a rolling release, so packages will usually only receive security updates and long term versions are preferred (e.g. a libre version of Iceweasel ESR as opposed to Abrowser).
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
Maybe, rather than rejecting systemd, you should ask systemd users for help on how to do the things you haven't figured out. To my knowledge, systemd includes the most advanced and efficient init system out there, and that's why the vast majority of distros have chosen to use it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
Hi Mason This is very helpful. I feel silly now but I thought that Trisquel has already made the switch to systemd. If I can buy myself another year to think this over, why not. I will re-install Trisquel and remain at 7 for as long as I can. In a years time there might also be an easy path to patch distros to remove systemd. Thanks very much
Re: [Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
It seems that Trisquel does not generally remove or replace anything from Ubuntu unless it is proprietary or facilitates installing proprietary software. Since systemd is free software, it will probably be present in Trisquel as long as it is present in Ubuntu, starting with Trisquel 8. If that's a deal-breaker for you, you can either stick with Trisquel 7 for the duration it is supported (until March 2019, I think) or switch to a different freedom-respecting distro that does not use systemd. Some options include Hyperbola, Parabola (offers both systemd and OpenRC ISOs), GuixSD (still in beta), and Devuan (optionally free like Debian). It sounds like Salix is not a freedom-respecting distro. I'd avoid it. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[Trisquel-users] Any plans to dump systemd ?
Hi Everyone I have been using Trisquel since version 5. I have been very-very happy with the project. However I moved to Salix recently. The Slackware universe has not and will not adopt systemd. The FSF is not upset about systemd because it's free software. There might not be moral reasons to hate it but there are many technical ones. Does anyone know if Trisquel 8 will have systemd? The Salix folks are nice too but there are some things about Salix that are starting to worry me. They have flash in the repo and it's not marked notn-free. There is no warning for novice users and there really should be. The full XFCE install comes with flash already installed. It's the XFCE people doing this not the Salix people but they are including it without warning too. I wish I could find a distro that had the attention to detail and polish that Trisquel has while also maintaining a very conservative approach. I want to stay as pure unix as possible, or as possible as this can be with Linux which is not pure unix either. However I also want to use a distro that I can send to customers without concerns about non-free software. The Trisquel developers are highly trustworthy and have done a really good job of protecting us. I am torn. Please advise. -Patrick
