Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
What a clear-headed gentleman. Jason Self for President! <>
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
On 09/18/2019 07:37 AM, d...@trudgian.net wrote: > I will also be leaving Trisquel at this point. This thread is playing > out in a similar way to the Purism ones, with it being inferred that > anyone not in the majority position on this forum hasn't read the source > material etc. If the goal is to get a fully-free distribution in the > hands of as many people as possible, which requires an inclusive > approach to community building, then these threads will certainly damage > that. I will continue using Trisquel. All my stuff works on it and continues to work. I don't feel like wrestling with another distribution. -- Caleb Herbert KE0VVT 816-892-9669 https://bluehome.net/csh <>
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
El 18/9/19 a les 11:35, Ignacio Agulló ha escrit: > > The way I see it, you are lost from the very moment you try to > defend someone's innocence - haters will inevitably profit from the > occasion to claim everybody is guilty, even you who did nothing more to > try to defend someone's innocence. That is a form of censorship, and > people defending freedom stand against it. > > Selam G. deliberately misquotes Stallman as saying that the girl > was "entirely willing" - and she's not the only one, I read more > articles stating the same lie. Stallman never said that. The critical > statement from Stallman was that "the most plausible scenario is that > she presented herself to him as entirely willing". There is an abyss > between that and stating that the girl was "entirely willing". On one > side, the truth. On another side, the lie. Selma's article is in the > side of the lie. > > Are you supporting this lie, Narcis? > Please, use a new "RMS trisquel" mailing list to continue this "full-of-sense" thread in current context. There you will have very interested people to chat about RMS, antarctic penguins and many other matters you want to develop.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
> What are you going to do, stop using Free Software altogether? Like "I > don't use it because RMS said mean things"? Makes no sense. But to > each his own. Although I supported the FSF moving forward with a new president this is not why I am leaving Trisquel, and I did not say that. I know that the distribution is not RMS. I am leaving because I feel the nature of community discussion here in general, across many topics, is having a huge impact on the viability of Trisquel as a friendly distribution for those who want to dip their toe into fully-free software. I have been struggling with this since I joined efforts here. > Agreed. There should be some sort of limit to disassociating oneself > from RMS; otherwise the logical conclusion seems to be to remove > oneself from anything he ever had anything to do with at all which > would seem to mean that one has to stop using any free software at all > and go use 100% proprietary software because the entire free software > movement itself came from RMS. That's absurd, of course, but it shows > that there should be some sort of limit on this disassociation. Not > agreeing with this positions that one doesn't agree with but agreeing > with other positions (like free software) seems a sufficient line to > draw to not have to go into absurdity. People can set whatever limit they are comfortable with - it will understandably be different depending on personal views. Again, see above. I have personally rejoined the FSF to support them as they move forward... which is certainly not disassociating myself to the extent of leaving free software. I hope Trisquel continues, and grows. I just won't be part of that at this time. All the best.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
Agreed. There should be some sort of limit to disassociating oneself from RMS; otherwise the logical conclusion seems to be to remove oneself from anything he ever had anything to do with at all which would seem to mean that one has to stop using any free software at all and go use 100% proprietary software because the entire free software movement itself came from RMS. That's absurd, of course, but it shows that there should be some sort of limit on this disassociation. Not agreeing with this positions that one doesn't agree with but agreeing with other positions (like free software) seems a sufficient line to draw to not have to go into absurdity.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
That makes no sense. RMS was not even involved in Trisquel, so any political opinions of his are in no way affecting the development of Trisquel, the choice of packages included in the distro, the themes (wallpapers, icons, etc). I see NO REASON that I should stop using an OS that has no direct connection to a person, because that person has some political view with which I disagree. I said it before, I disagree with RMS in many things. BUT his contribution for changing the technological world (and the society as a consequence of that) is far too big. The Internet exists relying on Free Software, Linux became the kernel of choice for most devices because it was made Free Software, projects like LibreOffice, Tor, Firefox, GIMP, and thousands of others are what they are BECAUSE they are free software and they rely on GNU-GPL and Copyleft to remain what they are... Smartphones, Android, the Internet itself, the way we use technology today was SHAPED by free software, and the Free Software Movement, and RMS himself. One cannot simply ignore that and put RMS in the corner as a bad person. He did more good than evil (lucky us, I guess). But Trisquel remains operating the same way as it always did. Tor and Icecat too. LibreOffice also. Everything is the same. Why do you feel the need to leave? That makes no sense. What are you going to do, stop using Free Software altogether? Like "I don't use it because RMS said mean things"? Makes no sense. But to each his own.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
Exactly, what is needed in these times is tolerance and willingness to work together even beyond differences. Politics, belief-based views may change like the wind, but with a steady heart we can all just focus on the prize of a particular goal. I don't agree with everything any one person or group or ideal believes, but I do know that we need eachother and should not choose to be fragmented instead of together. I'm sorry to see that you have chosen to leave as you were amoung one of the most dedicated of us, as well as among the most capable to help keep all this going. All the best to you going forward.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
> What the heck is going on here? What's going on here is that software does not exist in a vacuum. It is created by groups of people, it is used by groups of people. We are political, and software is political due to that. > WTF?? How does any RMS opinion affect the way a GNU/Linux distro works? Profoundly... Trisquel takes a stance on which pieces of software should and should not be included in the distribution. This forum has a code of conduct asking people not to do certain things, not to use certain terms. These stances that FSF endorsed distributions take are directly as a result of RMS opinions. Just like with FSF there is a strong association. This requires very careful navigation. I will also be leaving Trisquel at this point. This thread is playing out in a similar way to the Purism ones, with it being inferred that anyone not in the majority position on this forum hasn't read the source material etc. If the goal is to get a fully-free distribution in the hands of as many people as possible, which requires an inclusive approach to community building, then these threads will certainly damage that. Relatively few people here contribute to the development of the distribution, website, documentation. I have been fairly involved in development of etiona for a few months, and have found the people I have worked with there to be considerate, helpful and respectful, even if I disagree with them on political issues / specific free software positions. It is a shame that the worthwhile efforts to keep pushing out Trisquel are overshadowed by a prominent public forum which is often not considerate, helpful, respectful.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
What the heck is going on here? I actually read people suggesting that RMS thoughts on some non-technological matter are enough of a reason to abandon a GNU/Linux distro... WTF?? How does any RMS opinion affect the way a GNU/Linux distro works? It's software one is talking about here, not opinions. Tor and I2P are sometimes targeted the same way. People don't want to use it because "bad people also use it". What does that mean? Oh well, thanks for killing my hopes for humanity a little bit more today :P
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
The way I see it, you are lost from the very moment you try to defend someone's innocence - haters will inevitably profit from the occasion to claim everybody is guilty, even you who did nothing more to try to defend someone's innocence. That is a form of censorship, and people defending freedom stand against it. Selam G. deliberately misquotes Stallman as saying that the girl was "entirely willing" - and she's not the only one, I read more articles stating the same lie. Stallman never said that. The critical statement from Stallman was that "the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing". There is an abyss between that and stating that the girl was "entirely willing". On one side, the truth. On another side, the lie. Selma's article is in the side of the lie. Are you supporting this lie, Narcis? -- Ignacio Agulló · grafot...@grafotema.com
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
Well, he can't do that – he's now put into writing that he defends RMS, so they'll just go after him.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
El 18/9/19 a les 1:18, onp...@riseup.net ha escrit: > I just want to point out that this didn't come out of thin air: > > https://medium.com/@selamie/remove-richard-stallman-fec6ec210794 > > RMS has been saying things like this for years, and only now he's being > held accountable. It's about time. He's had so many chances to change > already over the course of decades, and he didn't. > > I see this as a good thing for the libre software community as I said here: > > https://trisquel.info/en/forum/goodbye-rms#comment-143348 Conclusion is clear: sex and trafficking subjects are a solid reason to abandon Trisquel. Ubuntu is more reasonable. And to be really far from these controversy, even better Windows or Mac OS. "Trisquel-users" mailing list is a solid help to get an opinion about this GNU/Linux distro and really helps to use it better.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
Hey Calm, I haven't used Trisquel in a little bit and when I saw this story, I wanted to see what y'all were up to.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
I would agree, but we do need someone to fill at least some of the void if not better. Someone who has much trustworthiness as Jxself or better if possible.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
This! I had thought about saying maybe six hours. And yes, its not only not a bad idea, he does seem to know quite a bit about how to handle the situation of free software. That being said, I only said nothing for so long, because Stallman's situation deserved I thought some time before we thought about replacement... But yeah, Jxself seems to be the only one here I would say has maybe almost as much authenticity as. He does after all check the distros that are free software friendly. I say go for it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
As sad as I am that it's come to this, I can't really say that I'm surprised. Even though I agree with RMS on many, if not most things, I've always found him to be pretty unconventional, and can easily see how others find him totally controversial. It was only a matter of time. However, despite how anyone may feel about him, RMS and the FSF, GNU project, GPL licenses, etc. are giants whose shoulders many people - some unknowingly - stand upon. I'll always respect and wish him well. With or without him, the fight for free software will continue!
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
I just want to point out that this didn't come out of thin air: https://medium.com/@selamie/remove-richard-stallman-fec6ec210794 RMS has been saying things like this for years, and only now he's being held accountable. It's about time. He's had so many chances to change already over the course of decades, and he didn't. I see this as a good thing for the libre software community as I said here: https://trisquel.info/en/forum/goodbye-rms#comment-143348
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
Hey, I wondered, where you have been t3g. I didn't expect you appear at this time. But yeah, careful with your links, it could be used to potential destroy the fsf. and that would be dangerous to freedom as a whole.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
> I nominate jxself for president of the FSF. I've always enjoyed his commentary and viewpoints on free software. me to
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
Yeah, the people jumping at the chance to throw RMS under the bus is worrying me. I dislike his stances on many things, and think that he is very anti-freedom on a lot of issues. But as for software, I look at him as kinda like a founding father. I'm worried that with statements like "RMS doesn't represent the free software movement", there are forces that will use it to move Free Software more in line with the Open Source ideals. We know that Microsoft and others are trying to usurp the Openthisandthat as we speak... (Linux Foundation, Github, etc.)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
On 09/17/2019 11:18 AM, superbyel...@yahoo.com wrote: > Just so the Free Software Foundation doesn't go the way of the Linux > Foundation. > > I nominate jxself for president of the FSF. I've always enjoyed his > commentary and viewpoints on free software. I never thought about jxself, but I think he would do a decent job if he had the time to do it. I would certainly trust him with the position. -- Caleb Herbert KE0VVT 816-892-9669 https://bluehome.net/csh <>
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
I just had a peek at SFConservancys page on Twitter about this. So many trolls... My eyes are bleeding.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
On 09/17/2019 08:13 AM, ja...@bluehome.net wrote: > The FSF is now less for having lost RMS. I will miss him greatly. I wish I could help. The man lost his job and everything. It's terrible. -- Caleb Herbert KE0VVT 816-892-9669 https://bluehome.net/csh <>
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
https://sfconservancy.org/news/2019/sep/16/rms-does-not-speak-for-us/
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
I second that. I think we need someone at least as dedicated and knowledgeable and jxself. My fear is that some bad actor will come in and take the reigns. I really hope that we are able to carry the ball going forward from here. publickey - davidpgil@protonmail.com - 0x01EB3346.asc Description: application/pgp-keys signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
Just so the Free Software Foundation doesn't go the way of the Linux Foundation. I nominate jxself for president of the FSF. I've always enjoyed his commentary and viewpoints on free software.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
Like Prometheus' gift of fire, RMS' gift of free software will now be carried on by mere mortals. I hope that the FSF will continue to do great work.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
My heart stopped for a moment. I thought he had passed... I hope there will be a new worthy successor if that is even possible. publickey - davidpgil@protonmail.com - 0x01EB3346.asc Description: application/pgp-keys signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
I am unhappy for this and I am agree with jxself.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
The FSF is now less for having lost RMS.
[Trisquel-users] Nobody lasts forever
The Free Software Foundation has announced that Richard Stallman has resigned as president, and also from its board of directors. There are many capable people on the FSF than can continue Richard's work, but for sure we will miss his enlightened steering. Richard M. Stallman resigns — Free Software Foundation — working together for free software https://www.fsf.org/news/richard-m-stallman-resigns -- Ignacio Agulló · grafot...@grafotema.com
