I personally think that is a very sliperry slope,like distros that preinstall
Skype and Steam because there's official clients for Linux. Doesn't make them
any less proprietary having a client for a free operating system. So wine
being free doesn't make the things that run on it less
All of the Doom source code by id Software was also released under the GNU
GPL. Odamex is derived from code under the GPL, and it's libre. The problem
with Zandronum is it's derived from ZDoom, which contains additional Doom
Source License code from other contributors (since that is the
the doom source license says we can not allow mods for shareware doom. So
using odamex will allow mods for shareware?
hi ADFENO mate, you seem to know a thing or two about Doom, so pardon me if I
OT this thread with my silly requests, but..
is there any way to play brutal doom in freedom?
http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Brutal_Doom
The game seems so edifying and gentlemenish I just want to play it for
hours.. :)
Brutal Doom contains several ACS scripts. Source code is included for these
scripts, but no license is given. The entirety of Brutal Doom, including its
scripts, is proprietary.
"but yeah i hope someday that crap changes towards better."
This seems unlikely to happen if people don't insist on it.
"Insistence isn't likely to work"
Imagine if the gamers of the world stood up in unison and demanded free
software, lest they stop purchasing their stuff. (For this to work they'd
need to be willing to carry out said threat.) Refusing to buy proprietary
games is better than sitting at home
> Imagine if the gamers of the world stood up in unison and demanded free
software, lest they stop purchasing their stuff.
Yes, but the important part of that thought experiment is if. It's not going
to happen. As far as I am aware, there has never, throughout history, been
any case of any
If the code is proprietary, then you can't run it with libre software,
because it's not libre software. If you consider a proprietary program to be
fine when it's a game as long as it's running on a libre system, that
justification would also apply just as well to running any proprietary
What we have here is a disagreement over strategy but both methods can be
tried. They are not mutually exclusive.
So this list only covers whether the code and scripts are libre not assets?
onpon4,
This is very nice. I however find the title a bit misleading. Something like
"Games licensing myths", "Game licensing misconceptions", "common mistakes
with games freedom" would suits more I think.
It would also be very nice to include references for all the claims in it.
Denis.
What i meant earlier by running propietary games with free software is stuff
like emulators such as in stuff like dosbox and wine, etc...
That is what i meant, maybe we misunderstood each other, maybe those games
don't use propietary code.
About copylefted game engines, I did ask the Atomic Game Engine developer
(who currently releases it under a proprietary license) to release it under
the GPL or LGPL. Many things are already free/libre in it (like the runtime),
but the editor is not. This was their answer.
I understood you just fine, personally. See the entry on emulators in the
topical page. Running proprietary software on top of libre software is still
running proprietary software.
> I however find the title a bit misleading. Something like "Games licensing
myths", "Game licensing misconceptions", "common mistakes with games freedom"
would suits more I think.
The title is a reference to "The JavaScript Trap", itself a reference to "The
Java Trap", because the usual
you may have a point but anyways read my later post, essentially i was
talking about emulation such as dosbox or wine. All that being said, I guess
propietary code isn't needed for such stuff. That is why I must have confused
myself and you. my bad.. xD
Okay then i misunderstood you I guess, but I thought that if you don't run
the proprietary code with libre software it is more secure and that it is
somehow different, my bad.
All that aside I still think as long as you don't run the propietary code it
is not a risk, and if god forbid you
I agree with you, mate.
If a good game's code is free and it's assets aren't, I'll still play it.
I always have a "good" cringe when I read the asset licenses, though.
They just make me quesy they're so illogical and immoral...
Yes, software only. The Libre Game Wiki already covers checking whether
anything at all in the game is non-libre.
All games listed on this page have proprietary software in them.
Nice! I have different views on assets but code and scripts should be Free.
I've decided to start a list of games, and groups of games, that people seem
to mistakenly believe are 100% libre software, when they actually contain (or
in some cases, are entirely) proprietary software:
https://onpon4.github.io/other/gaming-trap/
If you are aware of another example, or
Does the bit on id Tech 4 mean the Darkmods engine isn't libre?
tx for your answer Onpon. Nada Brutal, just Doom it is then.
Sorry for budging in, But if i run standard doom/doom II/final doom with
Zandronum, is that libre?
Zandronum contains code under the Doom Source License, so no. Change
Zandronum to Odamex, and you're fine.
Thanks for the thorough response! I suppose I'll poke around the DM forums
when I have spare time.
Hello there. Maybe you should start by reading the community guidelines first
for new time users.
It means that id Tech 4 games aren't necessarily libre, because you have to
consider the licenses of the scripts as well as id Tech 4 itself.
The Dark Mod's LICENSE.txt file states, "All software components of The Dark
Mod, either original or based
on the Doom 3 GPL Source Code as released
hi all, im from windows,, nice too meet u..
Thus the difference, and the preferably 'free software'?
Brutal doom is proprietary by itself because the creator didn't think about
putting it a license... Very bad.
I would like to add that brutal doom is perfectly compatible with GLOOME.
As I can see, most games in Libregamewiki, are free software, but, most of
games contain non-free art. And some free software games are only compatible
with non-free OS (Winbugs).
As for me, not everyone will agree with this, but as long as we can run the
game with ONLY free software, it should be fine to use even if not libre...
I know people might disagree with this, but that is my personal position.
We all have our opinions. ;/
In this list, I would also mention Quake 1/2 mods such as Team Fortress (Q1),
Rocket Arena (Q1), Action Quake 2 (Q2), OSP (Q2)… which use proprietary
(binary-only) game logic in the form of .dat/.dll/.so files.
Thanks, I've added that.
That game did originally have non-libre media, but it's been corrected by
Debian, as the opening paragraph of that article states. Debian's version is
completely libre.
All games on Libregamewiki are libre software and libre culture. If you find
one which isn't, this is a mistake that ought to be corrected.
You refering to code. Yes, all games are free software I think.
I could find some games with non-free art/media:
https://libregamewiki.org/Blob_Wars_Episode_2_:_Blob_And_Conquer
It makes me cringe somewhat too because of being "illogical and immoral" but
yeah its worth playing if you can run it with free software whether the game
code itself is free or not.
but yeah i hope someday that crap changes towards better.
Insistence isn't likely to work. What we ultimately need is competition. More
libre games, and more importantly, more powerful copylefted game engines.
I think abolition of copyright law would also mostly solve the problem. The
incentive to make the source code available for modders would
Onpon4 abit off topic
ReTux looks like a lovely game. I was not aware of it.
This is proof that "Open Source" does not necessarily mean "Free Software"
I would also like to point out, that "free culture" is different from our
culture[1] (which I like to name it as "free software culture", but it also
involves other things as well. If someone has a better name, please say so).
[1]
Unfortunately, I have never played Brutal Doom, mainly because it's
non-free/proprietary software, but I do have some friends who like to play
it.
Looking at the images, videos and descriptions of it around the Internet and
considering the description given by some of my friends, I find
Despite Odamex, we have Prboom[1], PrBoom+[2] ("prboom-plus" package) and
Doomsday Engine[3] as alternatives to the Doom source port.
Zandronum is proprietary/non-free software because it doesn't make any effort
to remove the proprietary/non-free functional data from the parent project:
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