Debbie wrote:
... it's transformed that our bodies will be, not
discarded.
Good point, but doesn't transformation of this sort truly imply a discarding
of our bodies? The caterpillar that transforms into a butterfly might be
said to be discarding his previous body. Think about it. The
Am I to understand you to be saying that Paul believed and taught what we
have come to define as 'classic dualism'?
- Original Message -
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: April 28, 2005 06:26
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance
Debbie
Lance wrote:
Am I to understand you to be saying that Paul
believed and taught what we have come to define
as 'classic dualism'?
Of course. Are you just now hearing this from me?
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
No, I am not.
- Original Message -
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: April 28, 2005 10:27
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance
Lance wrote:
Am I to understand you to be saying that Paul
believed and taught what we have
Debbie wrote: ... it's transformed
that our bodies will be, not "discarded". Good
point, but doesn't transformation of this sort truly imply a discarding
of our bodies?
DS: No. Except in a somewhat strained
sense of discarding "the way our bodies were". It is quite hard to equate the
Debbie, yet again, I stand corrected. Thanks for helping me think out my
word choices a little better.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6)
An honour, sir.
Debbie
- Original Message -
From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Torrance
Debbie, yet again, I stand corrected. Thanks for helping me
think out my wo
Lance,
I would like to be able to agree with you and Jonathan
about this man's teaching but from where I sit it is downright dangerous. His Good Newsis all God and none
of us. So is this in line with the clear teaching of God's Word? I
understand he is a super smart theologian but I can not
Debbie wrote:
I think some of us conservative-type believers on TT
dwell on God's love for the disobedient because we've
experienced a severe neglect of this in our own conservative
circles. Perhaps the other conservative-type believers have
seen a terrible neglect of teaching about how
David wrote:
But this is ultimately what we all should be
looking forward to, the day when our bodies are discarded for new ones,
built in the image of Christ, according to his new resurrected
glory.
Absolutely anticipating that Day
(read on below), although it's transformed that our
@mail.innglory.org
Sent: April 27, 2005 14:29
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Torrance
David wrote:
But this is ultimately what we all should be
looking forward to, the day when our bodies are discarded for new
ones, built in the image of Christ, according to his new resurrected
Judy and I thank you. J Izzy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005
1:30 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re:
[TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance
Why is it, someone asks, that the two best
- Original Message -
From: Jonathan Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: April 25, 2005 19:38
Subject: Torrance
I know I sent this to you a few weeks ago but it is so good I am sending
it again.
JBH
The covenant between God and Israel was not a covenant
indeed! J Izzy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 4:05 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance
- Original Message -
From: Jonathan Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED
amily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 9:06
AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Torrance
Why is it that liberal-type believers
only dwell on God's love for the disobedient, whereas the conservative-type
believers dwell upon God's deliverance fr
PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Debbie Sawczak
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 9:37
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance
Your question, Izzy, recalls one that was asked a while ago,
namely, Why are we so polarized on TT? It's because we are always
reacting.I think
Bill wrote:
I wonder how many legalists over the
centuries have known they were such?
Bill, aren't we all on TruthTalk legalists in one way or another? It seems
to me that we are all just legalists toward different objects. Some are
legalists in regards to following Scripture. Others are
]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: April 02, 2005 08:36
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance and Sin - Holy People?
Bill wrote:
I wonder how many legalists over the
centuries have known they were such?
Bill, aren't we all on TruthTalk legalists in one way or another? It
seems
to me that we
What about Izzy, Lance?
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 11:59 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance and Sin - Holy People?
Some others are legalists
That was loud enough for me to have heard you,
John. Amen, brother.
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: April 01, 2005 02:37
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance and
Sin - Holy People?
In a message dated 3/31
Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 31, 2005 20:13
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance and
Sin - Holy People?
No, Im afraid I
dont understand a Christian school that teaches about Bahai, but not
critically
In a message dated 4/1/2005 1:14:37 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
An acquaintance teaches at a local seminary on, among other subjects, world religions and cults.After briefing his students on the various religions and religious groups, he either takes them to their
]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: April 01, 2005 04:32
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance and
Sin - Holy People?
In a message dated 4/1/2005 1:14:37 AM Pacific
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
An acquaintance teaches at a local seminary on, among other
Sorry you are so tempted. Izzy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Debbie Sawczak
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005
10:39 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance and Sin - Holy
People?
Exactly the passage I
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 3/31/2005 6:52:33 PM
Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I will stubbornly believe the best of you! :-)
Intellectually, I understand and give credence to this opinion, of late
expressed by Lance and Bill.
Man, that is the truth! :)
bill
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 3:17
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance and
Sin - Holy People?
When one equates one's statement(s) of the truth
I wonder how many legalists over the centuries have
know they were such? Not many I suppose.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 12:37
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance
JD, Until you choose to stop projecting the
demons from your past upon others, you will have to risk being one sick
puppy. How long will you choose to carry around a sack full of dead
bones? Let it go. Izzy
Just thinking out loud.
John
What are you saying? That we can't know
truth? That we are all in the same shape as Pontius Pilate
whose
famous words are "What is truth?" That Jesus
didn't really mean it when he told his disciples "You shall
KNOW the truth and the truth will make you
free?"
So now everyone who believes
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 7:32
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance and Sin - Holy
People?
I wonder how many legalists over the centuries have know
they were such? Not many I suppose.
Bill
The passing of the Pope - and it is just that, I suppose, offers me the occasion to speak of my deeply felt respect for this leader. In simple terms, he has been a stud !!
I include him in my prayers -- knowing that God has included him in the reconciliation of all unto Himself. God bless John
A hearty Amen!
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: April 01, 2005 11:34
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance and
Sin - Holy People?
The passing of the Pope -
and it is just that, I suppose, offers me
6:51
AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance and
Sin - Holy People?
I wonder
how many intellectuals take comfort in labeling people who cherish Gods
Word legalists? Maybe the Popes were right to burn them at the stake
for so many centuries? Darnwe still wont go away
- Original Message -
From: Jonathan Hughes
To: Lance Muir
Sent: March 30, 2005 20:53
Subject: Torrance and Sin - Holy People?
TF Torrance quote to follow. Keep in mind the short
discussion we had today regarding whether the real problem we face is sin.
Torrance does a beautiful
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 04:34:01 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
From: Jonathan Hughes
TF Torrance quote to follow. Keep in mind the short discussion we
had today regarding whether the real problem we face is sin. Torrance
does a beautiful 180 here and states that
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 31, 2005 06:51
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance and
Sin - Holy People?
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 04:34:01 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
From: Jonathan Hughes
TF Torr
How can we get beyond 'camps'? Kevin cited a verse
from John with theunderstanding that no correct interpretation of it
could be other than the one that he and, I assumeyou, Linda David hold to
also. IFF the understanding that you, collectively, hold on this and, on other
matters is
In a message dated 3/31/2005 5:58:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
IFF no amount of Scriptural support for another understanding will EVER see any one of you alter your position then, how are we to engage one another?
Lance, this is a very strange comment coming from
IFF no amount of
Scriptural support for another understanding will EVER see any one of you alter
your position then, how
are we to engage one another?
Lance, this is a very strange comment coming from the only one in your camp
who refused to even discuss the meaning of that scripture.
In a message dated 3/31/2005 6:38:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Lance, this is a very strange comment coming from the only one in your camp who refused to even discuss the meaning of that scripture. All of us have explained our understanding of it. We are still waiting
In a message dated 3/31/2005 3:55:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Torrance writes;
The covenant between God and Israel was not a covenant between God and a holy people, but precisely the reverse. It was a covenant established out of pure grace between God and Israel in its
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005
8:47 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance and Sin - Holy
People?
In a message dated 3/31/2005 6:38:55 AM Pacific Standard
31, 2005 7:54
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance and
Sin - Holy People?
Yesterday Bill found one of David's posts helpful
in clarifying David's use of the word 'perfect'. Bill exhibiteda
heart/mind prepared to change. There are other examples of this on
Bill's part
Lance wrote:
IFF no amount of Scriptural support for another
understanding will EVER see any one of you alter
your position then, how are we to engage one another?
John wrote:
I would be interested in Linda Shields answer to Lance's question
above as well as Terry's, Millers, Deegan's
. Yet, have you misapprehended it.
- Original Message -
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 31, 2005 14:51
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance and Sin - Holy People?
Lance wrote:
IFF no amount of Scriptural support for another
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Debbie Sawczak
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005
1:25 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance and Sin - Holy
People?
On the heels of the whole discussion about
misrepresenting one
trumpery lest I
die.
Debbie
- Original Message -
From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance and Sin -
Holy People?
Lance wrote: Bill Taylor has done that which I've
not.
al Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:07
PM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance and
Sin - Holy People?
I am wondering if
your sons Christian school encouraged the children to examine why they do not
] On
Behalf Of Debbie Sawczak
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005
5:34 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance and Sin - Holy
People?
The presentation itself was just
about Bahai. It had no other purpose. Sort of along the lines of, OK,
after all this, this is what we hear
@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:13
PM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance and
Sin - Holy People?
No, Im afraid I
dont understand a Christian school that teaches about Bahai, but not
critically; or a Christian school teacher who does not prescribe
Izzy in blue:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Debbie Sawczak
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005
8:50 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Torrance and Sin - Holy
People?
Oh for pity's sake, Izzy, my dear
elder sister
Exactly the
passage I was thinking of.The stubbornness is requiredin order
tostand againstthe temptation todo otherwise.
'Night.
Debbie
I will
stubbornly believe the best of you! :-) Stubbornness
not required. You have Gods permission to assume the best of others in I Cor
In a message dated 3/31/2005 6:52:33 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I will stubbornly believe the best of you! :-)
Intellectually, I understand and give credence to this opinion, of late expressed by Lance and Bill. Emotionally, I am not there. A confession of sorts. I
It is this kind of thing that puts us [or, at least, me] in my place. Well worth the reading. I do not include such lengthy quotes, as a rule, but this is great and I wanted to share with those who can receive the message (not an insult to those who care not for Torrence, by the way). It is funny.
Title: Torrance quote
What distinction do you see being made here? Are
you aware that it 'raises the bar'?
- Original Message -
From: Hughes Jonathan
To: Lance Muir
Sent: November 30, 2004 17:03
Subject: Torrance quote
Found this in my travels:
But even within contemporary
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