Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment **

2005-12-17 Thread Kevin Deegan
Thanks for the courtesy of a responseCharles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin, Blaine this is a banned thread...please move on.From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment **Date:

[TruthTalk] THE CROSS MISAPPREHENDED..NOW SMITH MOSES ON EQUAL FOOTING!?

2005-12-17 Thread Lance Muir
Dave Hansen said that he was on TT in order to understand the beliefs/practices of protestants. I've been on TT for a 'while'. Dave's been on for a 'while'. DAVE:WOULD YOU CONSIDER OFFERING FOR US A SUMMARY OF THE 'BELIEFS/PRACTICES' OF THOSE YOU'VE BEEN READING? BLAINE:IT WOULD BE

Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment **

2005-12-17 Thread Dean Moore
Kevin, Blain-while I am not the Moderator I would like to remind you guys that according to the Holy Spirit we are suppose to be subject to authority-Here Perry is that authority. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/16/2005 10:53:49 PM

Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud

2005-12-17 Thread Dean Moore
cd: If one would read and study John 1: 9-it would help the conclusion of this debate. The light is now giving to ALL men and Gods laws are written in the hearts of ALL men therefore they will have no excuse for rejection of Christ nor breaking the Law-That is knowledge of God but to have

Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment **

2005-12-17 Thread Terry Clifton
Amen. Terry Dean Moore wrote: Kevin, Blain-while I am not the Moderator I would like to remind you guys that according to the Holy Spirit we are suppose to be subject to authority-Here Perry is that authority. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan

Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud

2005-12-17 Thread Judy Taylor
Hi Dean: You write: cd: If one would read and study John 1: 9-it would help the conclusion of this debate. The light is now giving to ALL men and Gods laws are written in the hearts of ALL men therefore they will have no excuse for rejection of Christ nor breaking the Law- I don't think I

Re: [TruthTalk] Saturday Sabbath

2005-12-17 Thread Dean Moore
- Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/16/2005 9:30:38 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Saturday Sabbath Romans 14:4-6 Who are you to judge another man's servant? To his own master he stands or

[TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread Judy Taylor
Since ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God These should put to rest whether or not unregenerates have God's Law written on their hearts (in them) and whetherit is possible for them to do "by nature" the things that are written in God's Law as per Rom 2:14,15 Paul writes tothe

Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud

2005-12-17 Thread Dean Moore
- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/17/2005 9:19:17 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] thinking out loud Hi Dean: cd: Hi Sis:-) You write: cd: If one would read and study John 1: 9-it would help the

[TruthTalk] FYI Fresh Baked Bread (by Ken Mathews)

2005-12-17 Thread Judy Taylor
Fresh Baked Bread*Yes, he humbled you by letting you go hungry and then feeding youwith manna, a food previously unknown to you and your ancestors. Hedid it to teach you that people need more than bread for their life;real life comes by feeding on every word of the LORD.

Re: [TruthTalk] FYI Fresh Baked Bread (by Ken Mathews)

2005-12-17 Thread Lance Muir
Wonderful! Thanks for this. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 17, 2005 12:57 Subject: [TruthTalk] FYI "Fresh Baked Bread" (by Ken Mathews) Fresh Baked Bread*Yes, he humbled you by letting

Re: [TruthTalk] THE CROSS MISAPPREHENDED..NOW SMITH MOSES ON EQUAL FOOTING!?

2005-12-17 Thread knpraise
Good question. I would be interested to see your answers, as well. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dave Hansen said that he was on TT in order to understand the beliefs/practices of protestants. I've been on TT for a 'while'. Dave's

Re: [TruthTalk] FYI Fresh Baked Bread (by Ken Mathews)

2005-12-17 Thread Judy Taylor
I like it too ... Agreement!!! ... It must be Christmas :-) judyt On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:05:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wonderful! Thanks for this. Fresh Baked Bread*Yes, he humbled you by letting you go hungry and then feeding youwith manna,

Re: [TruthTalk] Saturday Sabbath

2005-12-17 Thread Terry Clifton
Dean Moore wrote: - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/16/2005 9:30:38 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Saturday Sabbath Romans 14:4-6 Who are you to judge another man's

Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment **

2005-12-17 Thread knpraise
Well, Dean, we are in full agreement on this one. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kevin, Blain-while I am not the Moderator I would like to remind you guys that according to the Holy Spirit we are suppose to be subject to authority-Here

Re: [TruthTalk] Saturday Sabbath

2005-12-17 Thread knpraise
Dean, the words of Romans 14 eliminates all holy days. To escape this conclusion, one must add some sort of contextual consideration.Such is perfectedly permissible ... the larger context of a passage is always an important consideration. But, your conclusions regarding the observance of the

RE: [TruthTalk] FYI Fresh Baked Bread (by Ken Mathews)

2005-12-17 Thread Dean Moore
cd: Thank you Judy. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/17/2005 1:00:22 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] FYI "Fresh Baked Bread" (by Ken Mathews) Fresh Baked Bread*Yes, he humbled you by letting you go hungry and then feeding

Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread ttxpress
here you prove you are given to radically manipulatingAuthority in more ways than one; here you clearlyenforceyour own dualisticdouble standard mouthingtruthgiven to biblical saintsas platitudes fromreligious republicanism which equatesthe reign ofChrist to enforcing therule of elitist

Re: [TruthTalk] Saturday Sabbath

2005-12-17 Thread Dean Moore
- Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/17/2005 1:19:38 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Saturday Sabbath Dean Moore wrote: - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/16/2005 9:30:38 PM

Re: [TruthTalk] Saturday Sabbath

2005-12-17 Thread Terry Clifton
Dean Moore wrote: - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/17/2005 1:19:38 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Saturday Sabbath Dean Moore wrote:

Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread Judy Taylor
Dualistic nothing and manipulating nothing Gary; I quoted scripture as written in the KJV Bible If you have a dispute about it - it is not with me. If you can not receive it - this is your problem not mine.. Not everyone is able to receive sound doctrine and Ephesians 4:17-20 as is - is

Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread ttxpress
you manipulate it too, as clearly proven On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:28:17 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || I quote..scripture as written in the KJV Bible

Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread Judy Taylor
Where and how? Evidence please? Your ongoing consistent accusations are a bit old Gary; you need to give a foundation for these accusations. So show me how this scripture is manipulated and evidence that this is clearly proven. On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 12:38:49 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross

2005-12-17 Thread Judy Taylor
Blaine, DaveH kicked himself off. The Moderator told him that it was his last warning - that's all... because they kept ignoring him and went on with a thread he told them to take offline. Who told you he was kicked off?? judyt On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 16:10:42 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross

2005-12-17 Thread Lance Muir
IFO have thought of DaveH as one of the more discrimitating contributors to TT.Should he be invited back with an accompanying apology and full complicity? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: December

Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Restoration - BAAL Worship/ Kevin projecting evil

2005-12-17 Thread Blainerb473
Blainerb: A true angel of light is just that--an angel of light.Not all angels of light are Satan masquerading as such. Most are real. Moroni was real, but when Satan appeared on the banks of the Susquehanna River masquerading as an angel of light, he was detected by Michael, the archangel

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross

2005-12-17 Thread Blainerb473
Blainerb: Yeah, Kevin, I repeat Dave's question--will Jesus be wearing a chain around his neck with a cross dangling on it when he comes? I always understood he would be dressed in red, symbol of the blood he spilt in the Garden of Gethsemene. And, if he is not wearing his cross, what

Re: [TruthTalk] Saturday Sabbath

2005-12-17 Thread knpraise
cd: You do realize that this is the Bible I am quoting that you are disagreeing with? Jd: the comments below are or should be of some value. It is safe to say, however, that Terry Cliffton is not disagreeing with scripture - only your understanding of scripture. I personally believe that Paul

Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread knpraise
Your view that Mattt 7:11 is talking about the reception of the baptism of the Holy spirit is the most recent case in point. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Where and how? Evidence please? Your ongoing consistent accusations are a bit old

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross

2005-12-17 Thread knpraise
He is certainly not nearly as disruptive as at least two others on this forum. I jwill tnot refer kto them by dname but they probably know who they are? jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] IFO have thought of DaveH as one of the more

Re: [TruthTalk] SO THEN it is safe to assume that NO MORMON RESPONSE TO THE ...

2005-12-17 Thread Blainerb473
In a message dated 12/16/2005 8:59:46 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So a Satanist is on vacation in Utah he decides to take a tour of the temple. What do you think his thoughts would be when he sees his symbol for his god on your buildings? Blainerb:

Re: [TruthTalk] SO THEN it is safe to assume that NO MORMON RESPONSE TO THE ...

2005-12-17 Thread Blainerb473
Blainerb: To "be perfect," it seems one would first have to become perfect--which may take more time for some than others.I do OK in following the admonitions of Jesus Christ, and I believe I do better each day--but I am after all a son of Adam and Eve, from whom I inherited imperfections.

[TruthTalk] We the People...of the United States

2005-12-17 Thread ShieldsFamily
We The People. Of The United States This is probably the best e-mail I've seen in a long, long time. The following has been attributed to State Representative Mitchell Aye from GA. This guy should run for President one day...

Re: [TruthTalk] Saturday Sabbath

2005-12-17 Thread Dean Moore
- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/17/2005 1:41:13 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Saturday Sabbath Dean, the words of Romans 14 eliminates all holy days. To escape this conclusion, one must add some sort of contextual

Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment **

2005-12-17 Thread Blainerb473
Oh, yeah, now I remember writing that. I should have just said I was holding my breath, huh? :) Blainerb In a message dated 12/16/2005 8:54:01 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Can you print the entire context, please? Blainerb From: [EMAIL

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross

2005-12-17 Thread Blainerb473
In a message dated 12/16/2005 8:59:42 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: discerning the difference . . . cd: And the sad part is you actually believe a man who said there were 6 ft quaker like people living on the moon-as a prophet of God-very sad indeed.

Re: [TruthTalk] sweat

2005-12-17 Thread Blainerb473
A good reason, but there had to be a more profound reason, huh? In a message dated 12/16/2005 8:59:46 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How about to fulfill prophecy? Is that a good reason? Blainer wrote I am not sure why dying

Re: [TruthTalk] Saturday Sabbath

2005-12-17 Thread knpraise
Christ's physical ministry was to the Jew, only. He lived under the law and was the fulfillment of that law. In Him is the end of the law. As to Paul, it is Paul who writes against holy days. Why did he continue to keep them (and I believe he kept ALL of them) : he became all things to all men

Re: [TruthTalk] sweat

2005-12-17 Thread Blainerb473
Then what do youthink Gethsemane was all about? He shed blood then, as well as on the cross, and was in such an agony as to almost die. Dying was not the only sacrifice he made. He suffered for sin in Gethsemane,he died on Calvary, in order to overcome death, and made it possible for us

Re: [TruthTalk] sweat

2005-12-17 Thread Blainerb473
BLOOD is the key word, I think--which he shed in large quantitiesin Gethsemane--apparently more than he actually shed on Calvary. When he returns he will be wearing red--right? This is a symbol of his blood drenching his entire body, which it did not do on the cross. In fact, other than

Re: [TruthTalk] sweat

2005-12-17 Thread ttxpress
 think with us about 'blood shed', Bro--the connotation of 'blood shed' makes it the key, not merely 'blood'--eh? 'blood shed', as you've already realized,accurately accounts for the NTcrucifixion violence, the literary emphasis of the Gospel accounts of 'the Cross' English

Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread Judy Taylor
Have no idea or frame of reference as to what you are talking about Best drift back off into Dylan land. Sorry to have disturbed you, if briefly On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 15:20:52 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: prop up your bi-focals, M'am--it's all there--recently, too and,

Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread Judy Taylor
Read what I said again JD and stop putting words in my mouth I was not interpreting Matt 7:11 to mean this; I merely said that ppl in churches that believe in the spiritual gifts use this verse to encourage people to seek the baptism in the Holy Spirit. This is not my view, it is theirs...

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross

2005-12-17 Thread Dean Moore
- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/17/2005 4:52:49 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross He is certainly not nearly as disruptive as at least two others on this forum. I jwill tnot refer kto them by dname but they

Re: [TruthTalk] Saturday Sabbath

2005-12-17 Thread Dean Moore
Terry cd: You do realize that this is the Bible I am quoting that you are disagreeing with? I realize that the commandments were for the children of Israel. I was never under the law and am not under the law now. I have no obligation to keep the Sabbath. I am free from the law. Terry

Re: [TruthTalk] SO THEN it is safe to assume that NO MORMON RESPONSE TO THE ...

2005-12-17 Thread Dean Moore
- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/17/2005 5:04:17 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] SO THEN it is safe to assume that NO MORMON RESPONSE TO THE "... Blainerb: To "be perfect," it seems one would first have to become perfect--which may take more time

Re: [TruthTalk] sweat

2005-12-17 Thread Terry Clifton
If Christ had not been nailed to the cross, His death would have meant nothing. Prophecy said He had to be lifted up. Terry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Then what do youthink Gethsemane was all about? He shed blood then, as well as on the cross, and was in such an agony as

Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread ttxpress
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:22:31 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dylan land..where 'the whip that's keeping you in line doesn't make him jump,Say he's hard-of-hearin', say that he's a chump, he's out of step with reality as you try to test his nerve because he doesn't

Re: [TruthTalk] Saturday Sabbath

2005-12-17 Thread Terry Clifton
Dean Moore wrote: As for the Commandments being only for the Jews you are wrong-dead wrong. The ceremonial law (ie. the Holy Feast days),the Priestly law ,and the dietary law are non- binding to Christians but this does not include the commandments.Terry you need to learn

Re: [TruthTalk] Mormonism: some important differences

2005-12-17 Thread knpraise
BLOOD is the key word, I think--which he shed in large quantitiesin Gethsemane--apparently more than he actually shed on Calvary Sweat AS IF drops of blood.Isn't this thewording of the biblical text? I don't know that there was any blood in Gethsemaneexcept by thehand ofPeter. But, if there was

Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread knpraise
You are not being honest, here. This is the specific exchange: You are reaching, here. What is the difference to Judy between good works and "normal christianity." Is the giving of good gifts something we do (ala Matt 7:11). jd Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek

Re: [TruthTalk] Cross

2005-12-17 Thread knpraise
Have you dealt with the puzzle correctly? I want to say "yes" except that I do not understand "c c". Perhaps you missed the point. -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: To:

Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread knpraise
moved to hard copy and saved to my journal. Excellent stuff. -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:22:31 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dylan land..where 'the whip that's keeping you in line doesn't make him jump,Say

Re: [TruthTalk] The law of Moses and other laws of God

2005-12-17 Thread knpraise
Dean, I would love to see you try to establish this from scripture: As for the Commandments being only for the Jews you are wrong-dead wrong. The ceremonial law (ie. the Holy Feast days),the Priestly law ,and the dietary law are non- binding to Christians but this does not include the

Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread Judy Taylor
I see it as a statement rather than an argument. In churches I have been in Matt 7:11 is used this way. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 01:42:54 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You are not being honest, here. This is the specific exchange: You are reaching, here. What is the difference

Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread Judy Taylor
Really JD?? So is your journal full of gibberish or is this the exception? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 01:50:16 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: moved to hard copy and saved to my journal. Excellent stuff. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:22:31

Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment **

2005-12-17 Thread Charles Perry Locke
Blaine, why do you cintinue to comment on a thread that has been banned? No more posts on this topic, please. Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator comment ** Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 17:12:50

Re: [TruthTalk] sweat

2005-12-17 Thread Charles Perry Locke
Blaine, I honestly believe you are baiting Christians on TT, or else you truly have not read the Bible. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] sweat Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 17:36:58 EST BLOOD is the key word, I

Re: [TruthTalk] sweat

2005-12-17 Thread ttxpress
CPL,what's your perspective on (just) this question? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 21:48:32 -0800 "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:..you are baiting Christians on TT..elseyoutruly have not read the [KJV?].||

Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread knpraise
Take a pill, Judy. Near as I can figure, you either don't like Dylan or you can't sing. My journal is acompilation of those things spoken or written that effected me, emotionally. They are statements that struck me as powerful. I have found that when I need a "pick me up," I can sit down and read

Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread knpraise
I wrote a post outlining several differences between Mormonism and Christianity - today. Did that post? it didn't come to me and comcast does not save what was written. Could someone please send it back to me. Thanks jd

Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread ttxpress
CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to

Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread ttxpress
..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets'

Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread ttxpress
..while they (we know they:) ain't Protestants, are they Christians? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread ttxpress
..if so, (we know they ain't classic Protestants, but :)are they Christians? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread ttxpress
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:16:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..while they (we know they:) ain't Protestants, are they Christians? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the

Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread ttxpress
..mercy me (the same question again,Bro--but did you ever wonder how much error actually qualifies Bible readers as trulyChristian? :) On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:25:36 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:16:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..while they

Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles

2005-12-17 Thread ttxpress
..jt says they go to church On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:36:23 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and