Re: [TV orNotTV] Invasion Coverage

[PGage]

So, I am uncomfortable in the role of defending TV news, as I agree with
the sorry state it is in. I have not been watching cable news continuously
since the invasion, but every 3-4 hours I watch for about 30 min. I have
not seen even one minute of discussion of how it will effect midterm or
presidential elections, or even Biden’s poll numbers. I wouldn’t be
surprised if they have had segments like this, but not often enough that my
sampling has hit it. The closest I have seen is a segment on Trump at CPAC,
and his comments on Putin and Biden.

In the early days the story was about the resolve of the Ukrainian people,
and of their President. I thought TV News got this right, got it right
early, and before it was conventional wisdom. Another story they have
covered well is the refugees, and how they have been helped at all of the
European borders. The last couple of days a key story has been how the EU
countries have changed what appeared to be deeply entrenched positions on
limiting sanctions on Russia and military aid to Ukraine. TV News has done
a good job of reporting the outcomes, but newspapers have done the real
work of reporting the process, see for example great WaPo story on  how
Zelensky personally convinced the German Chancellor to change his mind in a
video call to the EU meeting from the front lines:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/02/27/russia-ukraine-sanctions-swift-central-bank/

Where I think TV has surprisingly not done a very good job is actually
tracking the real time progress of the various Russian lines of advance.
All three of the outlets I have been monitoring seem to mostly have
reporters in fixed positions observing street intersections or buildings.
They get excited when they get audio of missals  hitting, or air raid
alarms, or fires, but otherwise they mostly say things like “reports are
that the Russians are moving up from XXX”, or “the Russian advance is
slower than expected”, or “The Capital is still under the control of
Ukrainians”.

Online you can find more specific reports (locals destroying bridges,
heated battles at specific locations), but this is where you also get a lot
of conflicting reports.

I suspect both traditional and non traditional reports are getting carried
away with the romanticism of David standing up to Goliath, and creating an
expectation that somehow Ukraine is going to win this war in some kind of
movie ending. Sadly that still seems unlikely.


On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 at 6:31 PM  wrote:

> I’m with Kevin on the state of US TV news. If I think about how the news
> stations are going to cover the invasion I know they are going to talk
> about how it’s going to affect the upcoming US elections. I lived in Israel
> for years and I remember cable TV came with CNN International. If something
> big happened locally and I turned on CNN to see their coverage, it was
> about how the event would affect Americans or US foreign policy.
>
> I followed the Afghanistan and Iraq invasions closely in both the
> newspapers and on TV. From day to day there wasn’t a whole lot new to cover
> and in retrospect they missed the story in a big way. I don’t trust them to
> get this story right.
>
> On Feb 27, 2022, at 9:10 PM, Kevin M.  wrote:
>
> 
>
> You make my point for me. Experts are now available online without a
> network filter. Survivor and victim accounts are also available.  If I’m
> going to try to stomach Don Lemon or Rachel Maddow, they need to offer
> something I can’t get elsewhere.
>
> Like you, I’ve turned to TV during Breaking News throughout my life, too.
> But now I not only don’t miss it, but feel I’m better informed by virtue of
> not watching it.
>
> On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 6:04 PM PGage  wrote:
>
>> While there is something to your critique, I think it is overly harsh. I
>> have seen several recognized experts on both Russia and Ukraine interviewed
>> many times, providing both general context but also targeted context and
>> analysis if minute by minute events. They have interviewed Ukrainians
>> getting out, and those staying. They have video, and interviews, with
>> officials from surrounding nations, NATO, and the EU. Yes, I have seen much
>> of this online as well, but television news has, during my lifetime, been
>> an import supplement to print journalism, and institutional, legacy media
>> are an essential counterweight to much of the freelance reporting one sees
>> on Social Media, which has less concern with its reputation and
>> credibility.
>>
>> I’m not saying we would be blind without linear television news, but
>> there would be a hole.
>>
>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 at 5:54 PM Kevin M.  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 1:47 PM PGage  wrote
>>> .
>>>
 .

 What would happen if there were no more “linear” television outlets on
 stories like these? I read the papers often during the day, and the AP, and
 Twitter, but there would be a huge hole without television news
 organizations with ongoing 

Re: [TV orNotTV] Hutton Sues Too [Was Norman Lear package to Amazon]

[PGage]

Matt Belloni Is reporting in Puck News that Timothy Hutton was all set to
Star in the Leverage re-boot, with an oral (but not signed written
contract) in place, when he was written out after he was accused of having
raped an actress when she was 14, and he 22, in 1983. The accusation was
investigated by Canadian police, who eventually found no grounds to
proceed. Hutton feels both vindicated and screwed, and is suing producer
Dean Devlin.

This at least explains why Hutton is not in the show (a significant loss
IMO), but Belloni doesn’t care much about that.

The facts of the matter are one thing, but the law controlling this is
complex and in flux. Hutton is arguing the producer had the right to fire
him, but that the oral contract gave him “pay or play” status, meaning even
 if they don’t use him, they still have to pay him $135K X the 13
guaranteed episodes $1.75M.

Twitter may have decided to always believe the accuser, but is that
sufficient cover for employers in these situations? Hutton may lose simply
if he can’t convince the court he had a valid oral contract (I’m no lawyer,
but it sounds like he did), but if he clears that bar the case may help
clarify things going forward.

https://puck.news/a-new-front-in-the-metoo-war/





On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 at 9:50 PM 'David Bruggeman' via TVorNotTV <
tvornottv@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Errr, I meant to say Timothy Hutton...apologies to both Tims.
>
> D
>
> On Thursday, July 15, 2021, 9:30:10 PM PDT, David Bruggeman <
> bru...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> IMDBtv is also home to the new episodes of Leverage (Timothy Bottoms the
> only original lead not involved here, Noah Wyle plays a new character on
> the team).
>
>
> --
Sent from Gmail Mobile

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Invasion Coverage

[twolper]

I’m with Kevin on the state of US TV news. If I think about how the news 
stations are going to cover the invasion I know they are going to talk about 
how it’s going to affect the upcoming US elections. I lived in Israel for years 
and I remember cable TV came with CNN International. If something big happened 
locally and I turned on CNN to see their coverage, it was about how the event 
would affect Americans or US foreign policy.

I followed the Afghanistan and Iraq invasions closely in both the newspapers 
and on TV. From day to day there wasn’t a whole lot new to cover and in 
retrospect they missed the story in a big way. I don’t trust them to get this 
story right.

> On Feb 27, 2022, at 9:10 PM, Kevin M.  wrote:
> 
> 
> You make my point for me. Experts are now available online without a network 
> filter. Survivor and victim accounts are also available.  If I’m going to try 
> to stomach Don Lemon or Rachel Maddow, they need to offer something I can’t 
> get elsewhere.
> 
> Like you, I’ve turned to TV during Breaking News throughout my life, too. But 
> now I not only don’t miss it, but feel I’m better informed by virtue of not 
> watching it.
> 
>> On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 6:04 PM PGage  wrote:
>> While there is something to your critique, I think it is overly harsh. I 
>> have seen several recognized experts on both Russia and Ukraine interviewed 
>> many times, providing both general context but also targeted context and 
>> analysis if minute by minute events. They have interviewed Ukrainians 
>> getting out, and those staying. They have video, and interviews, with 
>> officials from surrounding nations, NATO, and the EU. Yes, I have seen much 
>> of this online as well, but television news has, during my lifetime, been an 
>> import supplement to print journalism, and institutional, legacy media are 
>> an essential counterweight to much of the freelance reporting one sees on 
>> Social Media, which has less concern with its reputation and credibility. 
>> 
>> I’m not saying we would be blind without linear television news, but there 
>> would be a hole.
>> 
>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 at 5:54 PM Kevin M.  wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 1:47 PM PGage  wrote
>>> . 
 .
 
 What would happen if there were no more “linear” television outlets on 
 stories like these? I read the papers often during the day, and the AP, 
 and Twitter, but there would be a huge hole without television news 
 organizations with ongoing assets in the field. Will Amazon or Hulu be 
 doing that down the road? I guess I will have to get CNN+
>>> 
>>> Really? A huge hole? What context are TV news providing? What, other than 
>>> the instantaneous visuals of explosions, are they contributing to the 
>>> story? I’m unaware of any experts on Ukraine employed by CNN or MSNBC… they 
>>> might exist, but I can’t imagine they prepared for this eventuality, even 
>>> though Putin has been preparing for this for more than a decade so they had 
>>> plenty of time to develop sources and establish solid connections to the 
>>> region. 
>>> 
>>> I haven’t watched any TV coverage, and I don’t feel I’m missing out. I have 
>>> friends in the area, so I can see any immediate events on social media. For 
>>> context there are stories from AP and BBC. Both NPR and MarketPlace have 
>>> done a decent job explaining the impact of war in the region on US economy 
>>> and life. I fail to see any advantage in whatever CNN or MSNBC might be 
>>> bloviating about. 
>>> 
>>> I’m taking this war personally. I was in Kazakhstan 20 years ago when Putin 
>>> murdered a school full of men, women, and children in Beslan. And I watched 
>>> when he attacked Crimea. And Georgia. He’s patient and methodical, and the 
>>> so called international community has let him get away with this crap over 
>>> and over again. The US isn’t a moral leader anymore, and we’re on the cusp 
>>> of ceasing to be a superpower, but we could still be acting against Putin 
>>> with more than economic sanctions. As could a dozen other nations. 
>>> 
>>> Putin won’t stop until he’s forcibly removed from office or assassinated. 
>>> That’s the reality. Even if he’s convinced to stop attacking Ukraine, he 
>>> will shift targets or wait until we are distracted and strike again. The TV 
>>> news media is too dumbed down and too political to cover this situation 
>>> with any degree of quality or depth.  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 -- 
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 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "TVorNotTV" group.
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 email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> -- 
>>> Kevin M. (RPCV)
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are 

Re: [TV orNotTV] Invasion Coverage

[Kevin M.]

On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 6:25 PM PGage  wrote:

> If it helps, I have not seen Don Lemon or Rachel Maddow once since the
> invasion started.
>

I’m sure that helps you


> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 at 6:10 PM Kevin M.  wrote:
>
>> You make my point for me. Experts are now available online without a
>> network filter. Survivor and victim accounts are also available.  If I’m
>> going to try to stomach Don Lemon or Rachel Maddow, they need to offer
>> something I can’t get elsewhere.
>>
>> Like you, I’ve turned to TV during Breaking News throughout my life, too.
>> But now I not only don’t miss it, but feel I’m better informed by virtue of
>> not watching it.
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 6:04 PM PGage  wrote:
>>
>>> While there is something to your critique, I think it is overly harsh. I
>>> have seen several recognized experts on both Russia and Ukraine interviewed
>>> many times, providing both general context but also targeted context and
>>> analysis if minute by minute events. They have interviewed Ukrainians
>>> getting out, and those staying. They have video, and interviews, with
>>> officials from surrounding nations, NATO, and the EU. Yes, I have seen much
>>> of this online as well, but television news has, during my lifetime, been
>>> an import supplement to print journalism, and institutional, legacy media
>>> are an essential counterweight to much of the freelance reporting one sees
>>> on Social Media, which has less concern with its reputation and
>>> credibility.
>>>
>>> I’m not saying we would be blind without linear television news, but
>>> there would be a hole.
>>>
>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 at 5:54 PM Kevin M. 
>>> wrote:
>>>


 On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 1:47 PM PGage  wrote
 .

> .
>
> What would happen if there were no more “linear” television outlets on
> stories like these? I read the papers often during the day, and the AP, 
> and
> Twitter, but there would be a huge hole without television news
> organizations with ongoing assets in the field. Will Amazon or Hulu be
> doing that down the road? I guess I will have to get CNN+
>

 Really? A huge hole? What context are TV news providing? What, other
 than the instantaneous visuals of explosions, are they contributing to the
 story? I’m unaware of any experts on Ukraine employed by CNN or MSNBC… they
 might exist, but I can’t imagine they prepared for this eventuality, even
 though Putin has been preparing for this for more than a decade so they had
 plenty of time to develop sources and establish solid connections to the
 region.

 I haven’t watched any TV coverage, and I don’t feel I’m missing out. I
 have friends in the area, so I can see any immediate events on social
 media. For context there are stories from AP and BBC. Both NPR and
 MarketPlace have done a decent job explaining the impact of war in the
 region on US economy and life. I fail to see any advantage in whatever CNN
 or MSNBC might be bloviating about.

 I’m taking this war personally. I was in Kazakhstan 20 years ago when
 Putin murdered a school full of men, women, and children in Beslan. And I
 watched when he attacked Crimea. And Georgia. He’s patient and methodical,
 and the so called international community has let him get away with this
 crap over and over again. The US isn’t a moral leader anymore, and we’re on
 the cusp of ceasing to be a superpower, but we could still be acting
 against Putin with more than economic sanctions. As could a dozen other
 nations.

 Putin won’t stop until he’s forcibly removed from office or
 assassinated. That’s the reality. Even if he’s convinced to stop attacking
 Ukraine, he will shift targets or wait until we are distracted and strike
 again. The TV news media is too dumbed down and too political to cover this
 situation with any degree of quality or depth.



 --
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>
> --
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> Groups "TVorNotTV" group.
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> 
> .
>
 --
 Kevin M. (RPCV)

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 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
 

Re: [TV orNotTV] Invasion Coverage

[PGage]

If it helps, I have not seen Don Lemon or Rachel Maddow once since the
invasion started.

On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 at 6:10 PM Kevin M.  wrote:

> You make my point for me. Experts are now available online without a
> network filter. Survivor and victim accounts are also available.  If I’m
> going to try to stomach Don Lemon or Rachel Maddow, they need to offer
> something I can’t get elsewhere.
>
> Like you, I’ve turned to TV during Breaking News throughout my life, too.
> But now I not only don’t miss it, but feel I’m better informed by virtue of
> not watching it.
>
> On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 6:04 PM PGage  wrote:
>
>> While there is something to your critique, I think it is overly harsh. I
>> have seen several recognized experts on both Russia and Ukraine interviewed
>> many times, providing both general context but also targeted context and
>> analysis if minute by minute events. They have interviewed Ukrainians
>> getting out, and those staying. They have video, and interviews, with
>> officials from surrounding nations, NATO, and the EU. Yes, I have seen much
>> of this online as well, but television news has, during my lifetime, been
>> an import supplement to print journalism, and institutional, legacy media
>> are an essential counterweight to much of the freelance reporting one sees
>> on Social Media, which has less concern with its reputation and
>> credibility.
>>
>> I’m not saying we would be blind without linear television news, but
>> there would be a hole.
>>
>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 at 5:54 PM Kevin M.  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 1:47 PM PGage  wrote
>>> .
>>>
 .

 What would happen if there were no more “linear” television outlets on
 stories like these? I read the papers often during the day, and the AP, and
 Twitter, but there would be a huge hole without television news
 organizations with ongoing assets in the field. Will Amazon or Hulu be
 doing that down the road? I guess I will have to get CNN+

>>>
>>> Really? A huge hole? What context are TV news providing? What, other
>>> than the instantaneous visuals of explosions, are they contributing to the
>>> story? I’m unaware of any experts on Ukraine employed by CNN or MSNBC… they
>>> might exist, but I can’t imagine they prepared for this eventuality, even
>>> though Putin has been preparing for this for more than a decade so they had
>>> plenty of time to develop sources and establish solid connections to the
>>> region.
>>>
>>> I haven’t watched any TV coverage, and I don’t feel I’m missing out. I
>>> have friends in the area, so I can see any immediate events on social
>>> media. For context there are stories from AP and BBC. Both NPR and
>>> MarketPlace have done a decent job explaining the impact of war in the
>>> region on US economy and life. I fail to see any advantage in whatever CNN
>>> or MSNBC might be bloviating about.
>>>
>>> I’m taking this war personally. I was in Kazakhstan 20 years ago when
>>> Putin murdered a school full of men, women, and children in Beslan. And I
>>> watched when he attacked Crimea. And Georgia. He’s patient and methodical,
>>> and the so called international community has let him get away with this
>>> crap over and over again. The US isn’t a moral leader anymore, and we’re on
>>> the cusp of ceasing to be a superpower, but we could still be acting
>>> against Putin with more than economic sanctions. As could a dozen other
>>> nations.
>>>
>>> Putin won’t stop until he’s forcibly removed from office or
>>> assassinated. That’s the reality. Even if he’s convinced to stop attacking
>>> Ukraine, he will shift targets or wait until we are distracted and strike
>>> again. The TV news media is too dumbed down and too political to cover this
>>> situation with any degree of quality or depth.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
 Sent from Gmail Mobile

 --
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 Groups "TVorNotTV" group.
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 .

>>> --
>>> Kevin M. (RPCV)
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4BWhG%2BRHxKsoPxmuUw1hcKG99hVBDy-S0hcUres_z9V%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com
>>> 

Re: [TV orNotTV] Invasion Coverage

[Kevin M.]

You make my point for me. Experts are now available online without a
network filter. Survivor and victim accounts are also available.  If I’m
going to try to stomach Don Lemon or Rachel Maddow, they need to offer
something I can’t get elsewhere.

Like you, I’ve turned to TV during Breaking News throughout my life, too.
But now I not only don’t miss it, but feel I’m better informed by virtue of
not watching it.

On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 6:04 PM PGage  wrote:

> While there is something to your critique, I think it is overly harsh. I
> have seen several recognized experts on both Russia and Ukraine interviewed
> many times, providing both general context but also targeted context and
> analysis if minute by minute events. They have interviewed Ukrainians
> getting out, and those staying. They have video, and interviews, with
> officials from surrounding nations, NATO, and the EU. Yes, I have seen much
> of this online as well, but television news has, during my lifetime, been
> an import supplement to print journalism, and institutional, legacy media
> are an essential counterweight to much of the freelance reporting one sees
> on Social Media, which has less concern with its reputation and
> credibility.
>
> I’m not saying we would be blind without linear television news, but there
> would be a hole.
>
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 at 5:54 PM Kevin M.  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 1:47 PM PGage  wrote
>> .
>>
>>> .
>>>
>>> What would happen if there were no more “linear” television outlets on
>>> stories like these? I read the papers often during the day, and the AP, and
>>> Twitter, but there would be a huge hole without television news
>>> organizations with ongoing assets in the field. Will Amazon or Hulu be
>>> doing that down the road? I guess I will have to get CNN+
>>>
>>
>> Really? A huge hole? What context are TV news providing? What, other than
>> the instantaneous visuals of explosions, are they contributing to the
>> story? I’m unaware of any experts on Ukraine employed by CNN or MSNBC… they
>> might exist, but I can’t imagine they prepared for this eventuality, even
>> though Putin has been preparing for this for more than a decade so they had
>> plenty of time to develop sources and establish solid connections to the
>> region.
>>
>> I haven’t watched any TV coverage, and I don’t feel I’m missing out. I
>> have friends in the area, so I can see any immediate events on social
>> media. For context there are stories from AP and BBC. Both NPR and
>> MarketPlace have done a decent job explaining the impact of war in the
>> region on US economy and life. I fail to see any advantage in whatever CNN
>> or MSNBC might be bloviating about.
>>
>> I’m taking this war personally. I was in Kazakhstan 20 years ago when
>> Putin murdered a school full of men, women, and children in Beslan. And I
>> watched when he attacked Crimea. And Georgia. He’s patient and methodical,
>> and the so called international community has let him get away with this
>> crap over and over again. The US isn’t a moral leader anymore, and we’re on
>> the cusp of ceasing to be a superpower, but we could still be acting
>> against Putin with more than economic sanctions. As could a dozen other
>> nations.
>>
>> Putin won’t stop until he’s forcibly removed from office or assassinated.
>> That’s the reality. Even if he’s convinced to stop attacking Ukraine, he
>> will shift targets or wait until we are distracted and strike again. The TV
>> news media is too dumbed down and too political to cover this situation
>> with any degree of quality or depth.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYK7D6hT7SF-BOS%3DS233RxsL1BNG4OfO75UA1YqqpXS7dQ%40mail.gmail.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
>> Kevin M. (RPCV)
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "TVorNotTV" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4BWhG%2BRHxKsoPxmuUw1hcKG99hVBDy-S0hcUres_z9V%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com
>> 
>> .
>>
> --
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>
> --
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> "TVorNotTV" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 

Re: [TV orNotTV] Invasion Coverage

[PGage]

While there is something to your critique, I think it is overly harsh. I
have seen several recognized experts on both Russia and Ukraine interviewed
many times, providing both general context but also targeted context and
analysis if minute by minute events. They have interviewed Ukrainians
getting out, and those staying. They have video, and interviews, with
officials from surrounding nations, NATO, and the EU. Yes, I have seen much
of this online as well, but television news has, during my lifetime, been
an import supplement to print journalism, and institutional, legacy media
are an essential counterweight to much of the freelance reporting one sees
on Social Media, which has less concern with its reputation and
credibility.

I’m not saying we would be blind without linear television news, but there
would be a hole.

On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 at 5:54 PM Kevin M.  wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 1:47 PM PGage  wrote
> .
>
>> .
>>
>> What would happen if there were no more “linear” television outlets on
>> stories like these? I read the papers often during the day, and the AP, and
>> Twitter, but there would be a huge hole without television news
>> organizations with ongoing assets in the field. Will Amazon or Hulu be
>> doing that down the road? I guess I will have to get CNN+
>>
>
> Really? A huge hole? What context are TV news providing? What, other than
> the instantaneous visuals of explosions, are they contributing to the
> story? I’m unaware of any experts on Ukraine employed by CNN or MSNBC… they
> might exist, but I can’t imagine they prepared for this eventuality, even
> though Putin has been preparing for this for more than a decade so they had
> plenty of time to develop sources and establish solid connections to the
> region.
>
> I haven’t watched any TV coverage, and I don’t feel I’m missing out. I
> have friends in the area, so I can see any immediate events on social
> media. For context there are stories from AP and BBC. Both NPR and
> MarketPlace have done a decent job explaining the impact of war in the
> region on US economy and life. I fail to see any advantage in whatever CNN
> or MSNBC might be bloviating about.
>
> I’m taking this war personally. I was in Kazakhstan 20 years ago when
> Putin murdered a school full of men, women, and children in Beslan. And I
> watched when he attacked Crimea. And Georgia. He’s patient and methodical,
> and the so called international community has let him get away with this
> crap over and over again. The US isn’t a moral leader anymore, and we’re on
> the cusp of ceasing to be a superpower, but we could still be acting
> against Putin with more than economic sanctions. As could a dozen other
> nations.
>
> Putin won’t stop until he’s forcibly removed from office or assassinated.
> That’s the reality. Even if he’s convinced to stop attacking Ukraine, he
> will shift targets or wait until we are distracted and strike again. The TV
> news media is too dumbed down and too political to cover this situation
> with any degree of quality or depth.
>
>
>
> --
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>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Oscar Nominations for Streamers

[Diner]

For a second there I thought you were talking about the new Channing Tatum 
comedy "Dog."

Not nominated for any Oscars. Although that's because it won't be eligible 
until next year's awards.

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 8:08:42 PM UTC-5 PGage wrote:

> I have now seen the Dog. I don’t hate Campion, and I find Dave’s judgement 
> far too harsh. There is something of an irritating challenge in much of her 
> work though, as if she is pacing the action as slowly as possible and 
> daring the audience to complain. 
>
> I enjoyed the four main performances a lot in Dog (not enough for The 
> Batch to overtake Denzel in my judgement for Best Actor). I wonder if the 
> book comes across in the same way; the film’s only camouflage for its 
> ending is sparse dialogue and cryptic direction, rather than plot 
> complication. That is not necessarily bad, but it does not seem substantial 
> enough in this case to me to justify itself.
>
> I have now seen 6 of the nominated Best Films, and would rate Dune, 
> Macbeth, Belfast and Licorice Pizza (not in that order) ahead of Power of 
> the Dog (that’s not a knock on Dog, because I liked those 4 all very much). 
> I have to take Dave’s comment as hyperbole, as Dog is far more satisfying 
> than the Ricardo’s.
>
> On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 at 1:29 AM 'Dave Sikula' via TVorNotTV <
> tvor...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Suffice it to say, Mr. Cumberbatch's performance is as interesting as his 
>> 'Murcan accent sounds authentic, which is to say, not at all.
>>
>> Campion is now the first woman to be nominated for Best Director twice, 
>> apparently for bamboozling studios into allowing her to make two of the 
>> dullest pictures in film history.
>>
>> I'd rather watch the Ricardos again ...
>>
>> --Dave Sikula
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 4:16:54 PM UTC-8 PGage wrote:
>>
>>> Hottest Take: I have not yet seen “Dog”, but Cumberbatch will have to 
>>> deliver the performance of a lifetime to out due Denzel as Macbeth. I am no 
>>> expert, but I have seen the play, filmed and live, many many times, and he 
>>> made me feel like I was seeing it for the first time. A month after seeing 
>>> it I find myself thinking about it again and again.
>>>
>>> -- 
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>> email to tvornottv+...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/b4d22e54-84aa-4d97-a8c9-dbd7039ebba6n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
> -- 
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>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Invasion Coverage

[Kevin M.]

On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 1:47 PM PGage  wrote
.

> .
>
> What would happen if there were no more “linear” television outlets on
> stories like these? I read the papers often during the day, and the AP, and
> Twitter, but there would be a huge hole without television news
> organizations with ongoing assets in the field. Will Amazon or Hulu be
> doing that down the road? I guess I will have to get CNN+
>

Really? A huge hole? What context are TV news providing? What, other than
the instantaneous visuals of explosions, are they contributing to the
story? I’m unaware of any experts on Ukraine employed by CNN or MSNBC… they
might exist, but I can’t imagine they prepared for this eventuality, even
though Putin has been preparing for this for more than a decade so they had
plenty of time to develop sources and establish solid connections to the
region.

I haven’t watched any TV coverage, and I don’t feel I’m missing out. I have
friends in the area, so I can see any immediate events on social media. For
context there are stories from AP and BBC. Both NPR and MarketPlace have
done a decent job explaining the impact of war in the region on US economy
and life. I fail to see any advantage in whatever CNN or MSNBC might be
bloviating about.

I’m taking this war personally. I was in Kazakhstan 20 years ago when Putin
murdered a school full of men, women, and children in Beslan. And I watched
when he attacked Crimea. And Georgia. He’s patient and methodical, and the
so called international community has let him get away with this crap over
and over again. The US isn’t a moral leader anymore, and we’re on the cusp
of ceasing to be a superpower, but we could still be acting against Putin
with more than economic sanctions. As could a dozen other nations.

Putin won’t stop until he’s forcibly removed from office or assassinated.
That’s the reality. Even if he’s convinced to stop attacking Ukraine, he
will shift targets or wait until we are distracted and strike again. The TV
news media is too dumbed down and too political to cover this situation
with any degree of quality or depth.



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> 
> .
>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Invasion Coverage

[PGage]

I have seen the “World News” banner much (if not all of the time), and it
does not feel like it is being targeted for American consumption, so I
assume it is what most of the world gets. BBCA is not all Ukraine 24/7
(just now they have an hour show on about cinema, focused on Berlin Film
Festival). MSNBC, at least when I checked late last night/early this am,
made what much have been a tough decision for them to preempt their true
crime shows for live coverage.

On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 at 5:40 PM Adam Bowie  wrote:

> Well I may be biased because I work for them, but it's almost entirely the
> BBC for me.
>
> The international TV news channel is BBC World News. Are they simulcasting
> that on BBC America? I know BBC World News doesn't have the same footprint
> as other news channels on US cable packages. But then I know that BBC
> America just launched their big finale season of Killing Eve this evening,
> so I suspect that they're not doing news all the time. Anyway, BBC World
> News and the domestic BBC News Channel are probably simulcasting to a large
> extent right now, which they tend to do in times of crisis. Both are 24
> hour services. While the anchors are live around the clock on that channel,
> reports in US primetime probably won't be live because of the time
> difference.
>
> The main 6pm and 10pm UK BBC news bulletins have been live from Kyiv for
> the last couple of days with Clive Myrie anchoring from there. I'm not sure
> how long they'll be able to continue that. In tonight's bulletin, they
> referenced a big explosion close by while they were on the air (it happened
> during a pre-recorded report). ]]
>
> The BBC has multiple people on the ground spread across the country as
> well as in nearby countries. There are also reporters covering it for
> radio. It's also worth knowing that BBC World Service has a Ukrainian
> service with local journalists permanently in place in Ukraine. The
> service's editor has written about leaving the capital to protect her
> family: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60525725
>
> I don't know how many staff the BBC has in total in the country, and I
> suspect that for security reasons they wouldn't say, but it's a substantial
> presence when you factor everyone in.
>
> Otherwise, ITV News and Sky News also both have significant numbers of
> journalists in the country. Sky journalists may be showing up in NBC
> coverage.
>
>
> Adam
>
> On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 9:47 PM PGage  wrote:
>
>> I am wondering how the list thinks TV News has been covering the
>> Invasion, and if any outlets have shown themselves to be particularly
>> strong or weak.
>>
>> I have been following on TV mostly with CNN and BBC, with some MSNBC and
>> ABC. Online I have been using Twitter, which has a lot more information,
>> but a higher ratio of it is unreliable.
>>
>> It seems to me CNN still rules when it comes to stories like this (and I
>> almost never watch them for regular news). I suppose their foreign bureaus
>> are not as well staffed as the past, but it seems they still have more
>> people on the ground than the other outlets. I still mostly switch them off
>> when it comes to panels.
>>
>> MSNBC has Richard Engles, who is great, but they seem to mostly be
>> repeating reportage from others. I do still like their approach to panels -
>> gathering print journalists to discuss their work, though that is less
>> valuable on an actual breaking story 5000 miles away.
>>
>> The BBC (it seems like we are getting their world feed or whatever they
>> call it via BBCA) is lower key, but also seems to have boots on the ground.
>> It’s harder for me to tell what is live and what is delayed, which is
>> irritating.
>>
>> What would happen if there were no more “linear” television outlets on
>> stories like these? I read the papers often during the day, and the AP, and
>> Twitter, but there would be a huge hole without television news
>> organizations with ongoing assets in the field. Will Amazon or Hulu be
>> doing that down the road? I guess I will have to get CNN+
>> --
>> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>>
>> --
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>> "TVorNotTV" group.
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>> email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Invasion Coverage

[Adam Bowie]

Well I may be biased because I work for them, but it's almost entirely the
BBC for me.

The international TV news channel is BBC World News. Are they simulcasting
that on BBC America? I know BBC World News doesn't have the same footprint
as other news channels on US cable packages. But then I know that BBC
America just launched their big finale season of Killing Eve this evening,
so I suspect that they're not doing news all the time. Anyway, BBC World
News and the domestic BBC News Channel are probably simulcasting to a large
extent right now, which they tend to do in times of crisis. Both are 24
hour services. While the anchors are live around the clock on that channel,
reports in US primetime probably won't be live because of the time
difference.

The main 6pm and 10pm UK BBC news bulletins have been live from Kyiv for
the last couple of days with Clive Myrie anchoring from there. I'm not sure
how long they'll be able to continue that. In tonight's bulletin, they
referenced a big explosion close by while they were on the air (it happened
during a pre-recorded report). ]]

The BBC has multiple people on the ground spread across the country as well
as in nearby countries. There are also reporters covering it for radio.
It's also worth knowing that BBC World Service has a Ukrainian service with
local journalists permanently in place in Ukraine. The service's editor has
written about leaving the capital to protect her family:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60525725

I don't know how many staff the BBC has in total in the country, and I
suspect that for security reasons they wouldn't say, but it's a substantial
presence when you factor everyone in.

Otherwise, ITV News and Sky News also both have significant numbers of
journalists in the country. Sky journalists may be showing up in NBC
coverage.


Adam

On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 9:47 PM PGage  wrote:

> I am wondering how the list thinks TV News has been covering the Invasion,
> and if any outlets have shown themselves to be particularly strong or weak.
>
> I have been following on TV mostly with CNN and BBC, with some MSNBC and
> ABC. Online I have been using Twitter, which has a lot more information,
> but a higher ratio of it is unreliable.
>
> It seems to me CNN still rules when it comes to stories like this (and I
> almost never watch them for regular news). I suppose their foreign bureaus
> are not as well staffed as the past, but it seems they still have more
> people on the ground than the other outlets. I still mostly switch them off
> when it comes to panels.
>
> MSNBC has Richard Engles, who is great, but they seem to mostly be
> repeating reportage from others. I do still like their approach to panels -
> gathering print journalists to discuss their work, though that is less
> valuable on an actual breaking story 5000 miles away.
>
> The BBC (it seems like we are getting their world feed or whatever they
> call it via BBCA) is lower key, but also seems to have boots on the ground.
> It’s harder for me to tell what is live and what is delayed, which is
> irritating.
>
> What would happen if there were no more “linear” television outlets on
> stories like these? I read the papers often during the day, and the AP, and
> Twitter, but there would be a huge hole without television news
> organizations with ongoing assets in the field. Will Amazon or Hulu be
> doing that down the road? I guess I will have to get CNN+
> --
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Oscar Nominations for Streamers

[davesik...@gmail.com]

 I have to admit I find myself shocked that anyone would find my being adamant 
as hyperbole :)
I was as bored stiff by "Power of the Dog" as I was by "The Piano," so I assume 
it has to do my with not being on the same wavelength as Campion (though my 
wife, who's much more forgiving -- I mean, she married me ... - felt the same 
way).
As for the "Ricardos," as bad as it was (not "Don't Look Up"-bad, but knocking 
on the door), it at least kept me involved as I kept rolling my eyes and 
yelling at it. "Dog" just stupefied me.
--Dave Sikua

On Sunday, February 27, 2022, 05:08:44 PM PST, PGage  
wrote:  
 
 I have now seen the Dog. I don’t hate Campion, and I find Dave’s judgement far 
too harsh. There is something of an irritating challenge in much of her work 
though, as if she is pacing the action as slowly as possible and daring the 
audience to complain. 
I enjoyed the four main performances a lot in Dog (not enough for The Batch to 
overtake Denzel in my judgement for Best Actor). I wonder if the book comes 
across in the same way; the film’s only camouflage for its ending is sparse 
dialogue and cryptic direction, rather than plot complication. That is not 
necessarily bad, but it does not seem substantial enough in this case to me to 
justify itself.
I have now seen 6 of the nominated Best Films, and would rate Dune, Macbeth, 
Belfast and Licorice Pizza (not in that order) ahead of Power of the Dog 
(that’s not a knock on Dog, because I liked those 4 all very much). I have to 
take Dave’s comment as hyperbole, as Dog is far more satisfying than the 
Ricardo’s.
On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 at 1:29 AM 'Dave Sikula' via TVorNotTV 
 wrote:

Suffice it to say, Mr. Cumberbatch's performance is as interesting as his 
'Murcan accent sounds authentic, which is to say, not at all.
Campion is now the first woman to be nominated for Best Director twice, 
apparently for bamboozling studios into allowing her to make two of the dullest 
pictures in film history.
I'd rather watch the Ricardos again ...
--Dave Sikula

On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 4:16:54 PM UTC-8 PGage wrote:

Hottest Take: I have not yet seen “Dog”, but Cumberbatch will have to deliver 
the performance of a lifetime to out due Denzel as Macbeth. I am no expert, but 
I have seen the play, filmed and live, many many times, and he made me feel 
like I was seeing it for the first time. A month after seeing it I find myself 
thinking about it again and again.




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Re: [TV orNotTV] Oscar Nominations for Streamers

[PGage]

I have now seen the Dog. I don’t hate Campion, and I find Dave’s judgement
far too harsh. There is something of an irritating challenge in much of her
work though, as if she is pacing the action as slowly as possible and
daring the audience to complain.

I enjoyed the four main performances a lot in Dog (not enough for The Batch
to overtake Denzel in my judgement for Best Actor). I wonder if the book
comes across in the same way; the film’s only camouflage for its ending is
sparse dialogue and cryptic direction, rather than plot complication. That
is not necessarily bad, but it does not seem substantial enough in this
case to me to justify itself.

I have now seen 6 of the nominated Best Films, and would rate Dune,
Macbeth, Belfast and Licorice Pizza (not in that order) ahead of Power of
the Dog (that’s not a knock on Dog, because I liked those 4 all very much).
I have to take Dave’s comment as hyperbole, as Dog is far more satisfying
than the Ricardo’s.

On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 at 1:29 AM 'Dave Sikula' via TVorNotTV <
tvornottv@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Suffice it to say, Mr. Cumberbatch's performance is as interesting as his
> 'Murcan accent sounds authentic, which is to say, not at all.
>
> Campion is now the first woman to be nominated for Best Director twice,
> apparently for bamboozling studios into allowing her to make two of the
> dullest pictures in film history.
>
> I'd rather watch the Ricardos again ...
>
> --Dave Sikula
>
> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 4:16:54 PM UTC-8 PGage wrote:
>
>> Hottest Take: I have not yet seen “Dog”, but Cumberbatch will have to
>> deliver the performance of a lifetime to out due Denzel as Macbeth. I am no
>> expert, but I have seen the play, filmed and live, many many times, and he
>> made me feel like I was seeing it for the first time. A month after seeing
>> it I find myself thinking about it again and again.
>>
>> --
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> 
> .
>
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RE: [TV orNotTV] Colbert showrunner off to CNN

[Brad Beam]

From: tvornottv@googlegroups.com [mailto:tvornottv@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
Of Mark Jeffries


>And I'm really wondering if Jon is becoming restless--the steady paycheck is 
>greatly appreciated, but sooner or later he has to decide whether he really 
>wants to spend another five years being the butt-kissing sidekick to Stephen 
>Colbert at the expense of his own music.

The Roots have been tied to East Coast Jimmy Inc for almost 13 years now. 
Surely they’re given outs every so often….
 
_   _
|_>|_>  Brad Beam- Belle WV
|_>|_>  http://www.facebook.com/74bmw

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Colbert showrunner off to CNN

['David Bruggeman' via TVorNotTV]

 Batiste has been, even without whatever responsibilities he has on the show, 
ridiculously productive in other musical projects.  He's released *10* albums 
since being involved with the show, only one of them a project connected to the 
show.

Now, he could be getting tired of his sidekick duties.  But I don't think he 
believes the show stifles his musical creativity.
It's also worth considering what lingering impact remains from the pandemic 
with respect to live musicians.  Yes, shows are back, but I doubt live gigs are 
back to where they were in March 2020.  

Besides, if The Roots can put up with Jimmy Fallon for the last 13 years, Jon 
Batiste can deal with Stephen for a bit longer.
David

On Sunday, February 27, 2022, 12:42:03 PM PST, Mark Jeffries 
 wrote:  
And I'm really wondering if Jon is becoming restless--the steady paycheck is 
greatly appreciated, but sooner or later he has to decide whether he really 
wants to spend another five years being the butt-kissing sidekick to Stephen 
Colbert at the expense of his own music.
Mark Jeffries
spotligh...@gmail.com

  

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[TV orNotTV] Invasion Coverage

[PGage]

I am wondering how the list thinks TV News has been covering the Invasion,
and if any outlets have shown themselves to be particularly strong or weak.

I have been following on TV mostly with CNN and BBC, with some MSNBC and
ABC. Online I have been using Twitter, which has a lot more information,
but a higher ratio of it is unreliable.

It seems to me CNN still rules when it comes to stories like this (and I
almost never watch them for regular news). I suppose their foreign bureaus
are not as well staffed as the past, but it seems they still have more
people on the ground than the other outlets. I still mostly switch them off
when it comes to panels.

MSNBC has Richard Engles, who is great, but they seem to mostly be
repeating reportage from others. I do still like their approach to panels -
gathering print journalists to discuss their work, though that is less
valuable on an actual breaking story 5000 miles away.

The BBC (it seems like we are getting their world feed or whatever they
call it via BBCA) is lower key, but also seems to have boots on the ground.
It’s harder for me to tell what is live and what is delayed, which is
irritating.

What would happen if there were no more “linear” television outlets on
stories like these? I read the papers often during the day, and the AP, and
Twitter, but there would be a huge hole without television news
organizations with ongoing assets in the field. Will Amazon or Hulu be
doing that down the road? I guess I will have to get CNN+
-- 
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Colbert showrunner off to CNN

[Jon Delfin]

On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 3:42 PM Mark Jeffries  wrote:

> [snip]
>
> And I'm really wondering if Jon is becoming restless--the steady paycheck
> is greatly appreciated, but sooner or later he has to decide whether he
> really wants to spend another five years being the butt-kissing sidekick to
> Stephen Colbert at the expense of his own music.
>

presumably he's got a contract, and that contract has an end date, and
perhaps that end date is seven years from when they started, so ending in
September 2022?

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Colbert showrunner off to CNN

[Mark Jeffries]

The news-related guests to me are what gives Colbert the difference from
the other shows against him on OTA television.  Otherwise, I would really
like to see them rethink the show (although they won't because they're
still on top).

Even with the news-related guests, I would like to see them treated
differently, with the guests already out when we come out of the break,
with Colbert doing a "joining us now" intro.  No applause, no walkout, no
Jon Batiste playing the same music he played 30 seconds ago over the
standing ovation coming out of the break (damn you, Arsenio Hall).  If
there's a second or third segment, the fade-in out of the break has no
applause, music or logo, but "we're talking to..."

With musical guests, they've got to stop making their bookings based on
playlist adds at WFUV.  And one main rule--THEY MUST BE LIVE IN-STUDIO.  NO
MORE VIDEOS.  It would be even better if they reinstated the Letterman rule
that unless they're rock and roll bands, they must have the house band
accompany them.  Why doesn't Batiste have any say over musical guests, like
I assume Paul did?  Are they afraid they'd have nothing but jazz players?
(Of course, if it was Colbert's choice, it would be nothing but musical
theater performers--not that I would be complaining, but...)

And I'm really wondering if Jon is becoming restless--the steady paycheck
is greatly appreciated, but sooner or later he has to decide whether he
really wants to spend another five years being the butt-kissing sidekick to
Stephen Colbert at the expense of his own music.

Mark Jeffries
spotligh...@gmail.com


On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 8:40 AM PGage  wrote:

> I love Colbert, and in the past this is where I would try to defend him
> and his show, but the truth is that, after taking a complete break during
> then end of the Trump administration, I tried to get back into regular
> watching in January of 2021, and finally gave up. For the last year I watch
> occasional segments, either online or from my YouTubeTV DVR, but never a
> complete show.
>
> From this perspective I most appreciate his current events interviews (his
> three segments recently with Julia Ioffe we’re marvelous; he softened the
> hard edge she has on news shows, and helped her five a simple but not
> dumbed down analysis of what is going on with Putin and Ukraine) and he
> still has moments of gold in his monologues.
>
> Colbert’s intrusive interviewing style with entertainers is most
> disappointing and puzzling to me. On TCR it fit in with his persona, and
> was often hilarious. But in his genuine voice it often just seems rude or
> tin eared. This last is what is puzzling for a guy who so famously comes
> from Improv, with their emphasis on graciously making room for scene
> partners and following their lead.
>
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 at 1:38 AM 'Dave Sikula' via TVorNotTV <
> tvornottv@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> I generally either mute or FF through the cold opens (depends on if I'm
>> watching live or delayed). They wouldn't be so egregious if a) they were
>> funny (which they never will be while Stack is there) or b) they didn't
>> repeat material in the monologue.
>>
>> There are myriad problems with TLS, from the cold opening to the cutesy
>> titles in the intro to the pre-tapes (both the bands and the Friday shows;
>> I assume they tape those on Thursdays, but the monologue is occasionally
>> timely enough to make me wonder just when it was done). The biggest ones,
>> though, are the writing generally (I can't stand the minutes-long intros to
>> the "Meanwhile" segment, though Colbert seems to love them) and Colbert's
>> weakness as an interviewer: he constantly interrupts, steps on the guest's
>> lines, and gets in the way. On Friday's show, Sam Waterston may have the
>> best stories in the world, but he came off as an absolute stiff because
>> Colbert had no idea of how to deal with him.
>>
>> I don't mind the current events panels, since he generally defers to the
>> guests, but the others are generally a mess. The show isn't as much of the
>> train wreck Noah has turned TDS into, but it's not that much better.
>>
>> --Dave Sikula
>>
>> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:56:13 AM UTC-8 Mark Jeffries wrote:
>>
>>> This would be the opportunity for Colbert to make changes that aren't
>>> working--or do they really think those cold opens are working?  For the
>>> most part, the audience response to them is not huge (and I'm assuming
>>> they're not sweetening, especially since I think I'm pretty good at telling
>>> what's real and what's canned, even if they aren't using Charley Douglass'
>>> loops anymore).
>>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "TVorNotTV" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> 

[TV orNotTV] A great remembrance of "Ryan's Hope" and its head writer

[Diner]

Mary Ryan - the character originally played by Kate Mulgrew on the daytime 
drama "Ryan's Hope" (ABC, 1975-1989) - was named after Mary Ryan Munisteri. 
Ms. Munisteri, who died last month at 82, eventually became the show's head 
writer, and played a crucial role in the factors that set RH apart from 
other soaps: grounding the show in reality, and making it speak to women's 
lives. 

A wonderful reminiscence by New York Times columnist Ginia Bellafante:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/25/nyregion/ryans-hope-soap-opera.html

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Re: [TV orNotTV] KTLA was there!

[Kevin M.]

Fritz “retired” a couple years ago. The only local news veterans remaining
agreed to take massive pay cuts. Colleen is still at KNBC, ersatz NBC 4.
Moyer is longtime gone. Even Harold Greene is gone. Chuck “Eye on LA” Henry
is still there… working for scale, which is more than he deserves.

On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 1:43 AM 'Dave Sikula' via TVorNotTV <
tvornottv@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> We were a KNXT family got a long time, but eventually moved over the KNBC
> for the duration. (My mother -loved- Snyder.)
>
> The things that struck me for the longest time was that anchors and
> reporters tended to stay in Los Angeles, but moved from station to station
> (with some exceptions: Colleen Williams was still plugging away at KNBC the
> last time I was there [I think Paul Moyer was, too] and the talentless and
> humorless Fred Roggin and Fritz Coleman must have had blackmail material on
> someone, given their baffling ability to keep their seats).
>
> --Dave Sikula
>
> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 11:10:54 AM UTC-8 PGage wrote:
>
>> I forgot about Elvira on KHJ, we watched that too (I older than you, and
>> watching for more prurient interests no doubt). I know Dunphy moved around
>> too, but for me he is always associated with KNXT (“from the mountains to
>> the sea…” did he say that at KABC too?)
>>
>> My go to local newscasters were Tom Brokaw and Jess Marlow, and then of
>> course Tom Snyder.
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "TVorNotTV" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/e6bf7338-b3dd-4ea9-a773-80fdc56b1824n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>
-- 
Kevin M. (RPCV)

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Colbert showrunner off to CNN

[PGage]

I love Colbert, and in the past this is where I would try to defend him and
his show, but the truth is that, after taking a complete break during then
end of the Trump administration, I tried to get back into regular watching
in January of 2021, and finally gave up. For the last year I watch
occasional segments, either online or from my YouTubeTV DVR, but never a
complete show.

>From this perspective I most appreciate his current events interviews (his
three segments recently with Julia Ioffe we’re marvelous; he softened the
hard edge she has on news shows, and helped her five a simple but not
dumbed down analysis of what is going on with Putin and Ukraine) and he
still has moments of gold in his monologues.

Colbert’s intrusive interviewing style with entertainers is most
disappointing and puzzling to me. On TCR it fit in with his persona, and
was often hilarious. But in his genuine voice it often just seems rude or
tin eared. This last is what is puzzling for a guy who so famously comes
from Improv, with their emphasis on graciously making room for scene
partners and following their lead.

On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 at 1:38 AM 'Dave Sikula' via TVorNotTV <
tvornottv@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I generally either mute or FF through the cold opens (depends on if I'm
> watching live or delayed). They wouldn't be so egregious if a) they were
> funny (which they never will be while Stack is there) or b) they didn't
> repeat material in the monologue.
>
> There are myriad problems with TLS, from the cold opening to the cutesy
> titles in the intro to the pre-tapes (both the bands and the Friday shows;
> I assume they tape those on Thursdays, but the monologue is occasionally
> timely enough to make me wonder just when it was done). The biggest ones,
> though, are the writing generally (I can't stand the minutes-long intros to
> the "Meanwhile" segment, though Colbert seems to love them) and Colbert's
> weakness as an interviewer: he constantly interrupts, steps on the guest's
> lines, and gets in the way. On Friday's show, Sam Waterston may have the
> best stories in the world, but he came off as an absolute stiff because
> Colbert had no idea of how to deal with him.
>
> I don't mind the current events panels, since he generally defers to the
> guests, but the others are generally a mess. The show isn't as much of the
> train wreck Noah has turned TDS into, but it's not that much better.
>
> --Dave Sikula
>
> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:56:13 AM UTC-8 Mark Jeffries wrote:
>
>> This would be the opportunity for Colbert to make changes that aren't
>> working--or do they really think those cold opens are working?  For the
>> most part, the audience response to them is not huge (and I'm assuming
>> they're not sweetening, especially since I think I'm pretty good at telling
>> what's real and what's canned, even if they aren't using Charley Douglass'
>> loops anymore).
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "TVorNotTV" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/3bfe7918-603b-4d0f-a95b-120225ec9378n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>
-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile

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Re: [TV orNotTV] KTLA was there!

['Dave Sikula' via TVorNotTV]

We were a KNXT family got a long time, but eventually moved over the KNBC 
for the duration. (My mother -loved- Snyder.)

The things that struck me for the longest time was that anchors and 
reporters tended to stay in Los Angeles, but moved from station to station 
(with some exceptions: Colleen Williams was still plugging away at KNBC the 
last time I was there [I think Paul Moyer was, too] and the talentless and 
humorless Fred Roggin and Fritz Coleman must have had blackmail material on 
someone, given their baffling ability to keep their seats).

--Dave Sikula

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 11:10:54 AM UTC-8 PGage wrote: 

> I forgot about Elvira on KHJ, we watched that too (I older than you, and 
> watching for more prurient interests no doubt). I know Dunphy moved around 
> too, but for me he is always associated with KNXT (“from the mountains to 
> the sea…” did he say that at KABC too?)
>
> My go to local newscasters were Tom Brokaw and Jess Marlow, and then of 
> course Tom Snyder.
>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Colbert showrunner off to CNN

['Dave Sikula' via TVorNotTV]

I generally either mute or FF through the cold opens (depends on if I'm 
watching live or delayed). They wouldn't be so egregious if a) they were 
funny (which they never will be while Stack is there) or b) they didn't 
repeat material in the monologue.

There are myriad problems with TLS, from the cold opening to the cutesy 
titles in the intro to the pre-tapes (both the bands and the Friday shows; 
I assume they tape those on Thursdays, but the monologue is occasionally 
timely enough to make me wonder just when it was done). The biggest ones, 
though, are the writing generally (I can't stand the minutes-long intros to 
the "Meanwhile" segment, though Colbert seems to love them) and Colbert's 
weakness as an interviewer: he constantly interrupts, steps on the guest's 
lines, and gets in the way. On Friday's show, Sam Waterston may have the 
best stories in the world, but he came off as an absolute stiff because 
Colbert had no idea of how to deal with him.

I don't mind the current events panels, since he generally defers to the 
guests, but the others are generally a mess. The show isn't as much of the 
train wreck Noah has turned TDS into, but it's not that much better.

--Dave Sikula

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:56:13 AM UTC-8 Mark Jeffries wrote:

> This would be the opportunity for Colbert to make changes that aren't 
> working--or do they really think those cold opens are working?  For the 
> most part, the audience response to them is not huge (and I'm assuming 
> they're not sweetening, especially since I think I'm pretty good at telling 
> what's real and what's canned, even if they aren't using Charley Douglass' 
> loops anymore).
>

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