Re: U2UG Contract
Martin Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: snip I guess that most of us are looking to move to the U2UG site. I started off down that path this morning but, being a careful sort of person, I read the terms and conditions. Clause 7a worries me. I have discussed this briefly with our legal advisors who said that we shouldn't agree to it without clarification. I've been focused on other things the last 24 hours, and haven't been watching the list too closely, so I have a lot of catching up to do. I've read all the mail in the thread, and will respond where appropriate. I apologize for responding to an email that is this old... So what is clause 7a?... snip Clause 7 is part of a boiler plate TOS that is included with PostNuke. Nothing more, and nothing less. There have been *zero* discussions as to what our TOS should be other than to make sure that we indemnify U2UG from copywrite issues. If you are concerned about the wording of any part of the TOS suggest an alternative wording. As has been stated elsewhere this is an effort by and of your fellow U2 users; we aren't out to take your work or inflict any harm on you. My non-legal mind looks at this and reads into it that once I have submitted a posting to the site, I give away all rights to everything I have done and all my future work that may have any connection with what I have posted. I'm not even certain that the connection is necessary! I am also NAL, but I don't read it the same way. IMHO the clause says that if you post a comment or submit a story that U2UG.org has the right to publish that text. Having said that, I it is important that we recognize that the meaning of the current text is not important. Propose an alternative and lets spend whatever time is important talking about that text instead. ~ kevin zollinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: U2UG Contract
Lee Bacall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Cliff, I would like to thank you for being a selfless and non-partisan moderator as well as an apparent workaholic all these years, supporting the needs of the Universe/Unidata user base as well as the incredibly diverse whimsey found within the ranks of your loosely coupled band of angels. I too am grateful for all of the many hours that Cliff has invested in his effort. I think that it is time for some of the rest of us to step up to the plate and offer to help forward the cause of U2/MV. In its existing format there is no easy way for any of us to do that. I think that U2UG is a tool that we can use to allow others to help carry the load. I am truly saddened to see the transition of this forum from one of folk-art to a structured forum where the genius of those offering their wisdom and well thought out (or sometimes merely inspired) solutions, will thereafter become the intellectual properties of IBM. I don't know what folk-art means, and am unsure how adding structure to a discussion group is a bad thing, but as has been said elsewhere IBM does not own, operate or control U2UG. I do know that employees within IBM are very excited to contribute their time and efforts to U2UG, but this is in no way an indication that IBM owns the group. As is stated on every page of the website, your IP remains your IP. snip I am saddened to see that the 60's are over and that 1984 is indeed upon us. And here I thought that a group of like minded individuals getting together to better communicate with (impose its will upon??) a large multinational corporation was a very 60's thing to do. :) Maybe I'm just too young big grin. snip I for one am certainly in favor of a large, united front for all of us involved with a non-normalized first firm, nested, post-relational database and all of it's 19 +/- variants. I think that U2UG can provide that. We have the advantage of *already* having IBM supporting the effort. It would be tragic if we left IBM sitting alone at the conference table because the user community couldn't reach agreement. -- ~ kevin zollinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: U2UG Contract
In a message dated 3/30/2004 11:24:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There have been *zero* discussions as to what our TOS should be other than to make sure that we indemnify U2UG from copywrite issues. If you are concerned about the wording of any part of the TOS suggest an alternative wording. All postings to this forum remain the sole property of the poster. Postings however can be copied, observing US copyright law, for non-profit purposes. U2ug does not take any responsbility for any postings to this forum. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: U2UG Contract
US copyright law doesn't help me in Australia. Maybe applicable copyright law is a better term. Then, Unless explicitly forbidden postings can be copied... is my preferred wording on that issue. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:50:00 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (U2 Users Discussion List) Subject: Re: U2UG Contract All postings to this forum remain the sole property of the poster. Postings however can be copied, observing US copyright law, for non-profit purposes. U2ug does not take any responsbility for any postings to this forum. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: U2UG Contract
My other, !!!MAJOR!!! concern with this is the loss of the medium of mail. This is actually probably quite a serious loss for non-USians :-( (Plus it's the only practical medium at work :-( Forum software assumes easy access to a fast, cheap internet pipe. None of the fora I have seen is conducive (to my mind) to a good, in-depth conversation. And, to put it bluntly, I PREFER to work off-line. I know I'm often sloppy :-) but working in fora means I'm also rushed. And I get put off by pages that grow and start to crawl (or get chopped up so I can't find what I'm looking for...). Plus, there's the time difference. How do I help someone stateside or down-under if our access times only overlap by an hour? With the list, it just happens that we notice the other person is around. With a forum, it's chance that mostly never happens :-( Obviously, as part of the u2ug board :-) I look at the fora, but I think it's a pretty safe bet that losing the oliver lists means I will migrate back to cdp for the most part, not to u2ug.org. Not that I think that would be a bad thing - consolidating the MV world back to cdp is something I'm very pro. I don't mean to sound ungrateful, Clif has done us a wonderful service, and this is really meant as a back-handed compliment :-) the lists WILL be sorely missed. Cheers, Wol -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin Phillips Sent: 29 March 2004 10:01 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: U2UG Contract Hi all, Firstly, thanks to Cliff for all his work over the years. I guess that most of us are looking to move to the U2UG site. I started off down that path this morning but, being a careful sort of person, I read the terms and conditions. Clause 7a worries me. I have discussed this briefly with our legal advisors who said that we shouldn't agree to it without clarification. So what is clause 7a?... 7. Submission of Content on this Web Site. By providing any Content to our web site: (a) you agree to grant to us a worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, non-exclusive right and license (including any moral rights or other necessary rights) to use, display, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, distribute, perform, promote, archive, translate, and to create derivative works and compilations, in whole or in part. Such license will apply with respect to any form, media, technology known or later developed; My non-legal mind looks at this and reads into it that once I have submitted a posting to the site, I give away all rights to everything I have done and all my future work that may have any connection with what I have posted. I'm not even certain that the connection is necessary! Any views out there before we all (possibly) donate our life's work to IBM? Martin Phillips Ladybridge Systems 17b Coldstream Lane, Hardingstone, Northampton NN4 6DB +44-(0)1604-709200 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users *** This transmission is intended for the named recipient only. It may contain private and confidential information. If this has come to you in error you must not act on anything disclosed in it, nor must you copy it, modify it, disseminate it in any way, or show it to anyone. Please e-mail the sender to inform us of the transmission error or telephone ECA International immediately and delete the e-mail from your information system. Telephone numbers for ECA International offices are: Sydney +61 (0)2 9911 7799, Hong Kong + 852 2121 2388, London +44 (0)20 7351 5000 and New York +1 212 582 2333. *** -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: U2UG Contract
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Youngman Sent: Monday, 29 March 2004 19:16 To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: U2UG Contract SNIP - consolidating the MV world back to cdp is something I'm very pro. SNIP As a relative new list-user could you please let us know what 'cdp' is? Thanks Rainer -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: U2UG Contract
news:comp.databases.pick Cheers, Wol -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rainer Gromansperg Sent: 29 March 2004 10:38 To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: U2UG Contract -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Youngman Sent: Monday, 29 March 2004 19:16 To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: U2UG Contract SNIP - consolidating the MV world back to cdp is something I'm very pro. SNIP As a relative new list-user could you please let us know what 'cdp' is? Thanks Rainer -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users *** This transmission is intended for the named recipient only. It may contain private and confidential information. If this has come to you in error you must not act on anything disclosed in it, nor must you copy it, modify it, disseminate it in any way, or show it to anyone. Please e-mail the sender to inform us of the transmission error or telephone ECA International immediately and delete the e-mail from your information system. Telephone numbers for ECA International offices are: Sydney +61 (0)2 9911 7799, Hong Kong + 852 2121 2388, London +44 (0)20 7351 5000 and New York +1 212 582 2333. *** -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: U2UG Contract
I suggest we take over comp.databases.pick or fire up something new on usenet -- I agree that web-based discussion groups tend to suck majorly. Matti -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony Youngman Sent: 29 March 2004 10:16 To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: U2UG Contract My other, !!!MAJOR!!! concern with this is the loss of the medium of mail. This is actually probably quite a serious loss for non-USians :-( (Plus it's the only practical medium at work :-( -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: U2UG Contract
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 19:38:07 +1000, Rainer Gromansperg wrote: snip As a relative new list-user could you please let us know what 'cdp' is? Newsgroup: Comp.Databases.Pick -- Allen Egerton [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: U2UG Contract
Hey, Wol, wot's cdp? -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: U2UG Contract
Yeah I agree, forums are a pain - A new mailing list would be my prefered choice.. If I had the bandwidth I would set it up.. Raymond de Bourbon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dennis Bartlett Sent: 29 March 2004 13:06 To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: U2UG Contract What chances of oliver.com (or IBM paying Clif to continue?) continuing to host said wonderful list? Email-style works for me - we're not allowed to sit on the net at work, and besides off-line allows one to think, to collate all the replies, to build mini-databases of worthy posts. Forum? Hmmm... No high speed connection, no time, just not going to get there. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: U2UG Contract
What are the bandwidth requirements to service the lists? -Original Message- From: Raymond de Bourbon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 March 2004 13:20 To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: U2UG Contract Yeah I agree, forums are a pain - A new mailing list would be my prefered choice.. If I had the bandwidth I would set it up.. Raymond de Bourbon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dennis Bartlett Sent: 29 March 2004 13:06 To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: U2UG Contract What chances of oliver.com (or IBM paying Clif to continue?) continuing to host said wonderful list? Email-style works for me - we're not allowed to sit on the net at work, and besides off-line allows one to think, to collate all the replies, to build mini-databases of worthy posts. Forum? Hmmm... No high speed connection, no time, just not going to get there. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended only for the named recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute, or take any action or reliance on it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender. Any unauthorised disclosure of the information contained in this e-mail is strictly prohibited. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: U2UG Contract
sbsolutions rbsolutions are on yahoo groups.. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sbsolutions you can select individual emails, digests or no email, and read on the website.. maybe a u2solutions? -Original Message- From: Raymond de Bourbon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 March 2004 13:20 To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: U2UG Contract Yeah I agree, forums are a pain - A new mailing list would be my prefered choice.. If I had the bandwidth I would set it up.. Raymond de Bourbon -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: U2UG Contract
Cliff, I would like to thank you for being a selfless and non-partisan moderator as well as an apparent workaholic all these years, supporting the needs of the Universe/Unidata user base as well as the incredibly diverse whimsey found within the ranks of your loosely coupled band of angels. I am truly saddened to see the transition of this forum from one of folk-art to a structured forum where the genius of those offering their wisdom and well thought out (or sometimes merely inspired) solutions, will thereafter become the intellectual properties of IBM. I heartily agree with Martin Phillips, that I would think twice and consult our legal advisors before posting anything (perhaps even a link to another site) to the IBM forum. It appears that the legal language would allow IBM to: use, display, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, distribute, perform, promote, archive, translate, and to create derivative works and compilations, in whole or in part. Such license will apply with respect to any form, media, technology known or later developed ... perhaps even in cases where a link to another site was provided. I am saddened to see that the 60's are over and that 1984 is indeed upon us. comp.databases.pick would certainly welcome anyone willing to post. There is certainly a large group of active posters with a diverse set of skills and experience that would be happy to interact with the Universe/Unidata population. I for one am certainly in favor of a large, united front for all of us involved with a non-normalized first firm, nested, post-relational database and all of it's 19 +/- variants. Lee Bacall, President Binary Star Development Corporation http://www.binarystar.com Phone: +1 (954) 791-8575 Cell: +1 (954) 937-8989 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: U2UG Contract
Cliff, THANK YOU for all your years of service for the list. It's been great. Now, a question for everyone. Is the U2UG an IBM sponsored web forum that retains all the info? If so, I'm not going to be there very long... Thanks for any info on this. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: U2UG Contract
U2UG.org is a not sponsored by IBM, it's an independent non-profit organization. Donald Verhagen 1690 S Congress Avenue, Suite 210 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delray Beach, FL 33445 USA Tandem Staffing Solutions, Inc. Voice Phone: 561.454.3592 Senior Programmer Fax Phone: 561.454.3640 --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9:12:39 AM 03/29/2004 Cliff, THANK YOU for all your years of service for the list. It's been great. Now, a question for everyone. Is the U2UG an IBM sponsored web forum that retains all the info? If so, I'm not going to be there very long... Thanks for any info on this. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: U2UG Contract
It would give the U2UG.org organization rights *not* IBM, they are seperate from each other. Don Verhagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8:58:04 AM 03/29/2004 [snipped..] I heartily agree with Martin Phillips, that I would think twice and consult our legal advisors before posting anything (perhaps even a link to another site) to the IBM forum. It appears that the legal language would allow IBM to: use, display, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, distribute, perform, promote, archive, translate, and to create derivative works and compilations, in whole or in part. Such license will apply with respect to any form, media, technology known or later developed [snipped] Lee Bacall, President Binary Star Development Corporation http://www.binarystar.com Phone: +1 (954) 791-8575 Cell: +1 (954) 937-8989 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: U2UG Contract
While Yahoo groups hasn't been the best or most consistent host in the world, there is no plan at the time to move our sbsolutions folks over to u2ug. Not to be a stick in the mud, but things are working really well over there and there's no compelling reason to move at this point in time. Besides, the moderation is simple, every user can elect either a web or email experience, and it's just easy. And the ads haven't gotten too heinous (yet). --Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PrecisOnline.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Lee, Andy Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 5:22 AM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: U2UG Contract sbsolutions rbsolutions are on yahoo groups.. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sbsolutions you can select individual emails, digests or no email, and read on the website.. maybe a u2solutions? -Original Message- From: Raymond de Bourbon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 March 2004 13:20 To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: U2UG Contract Yeah I agree, forums are a pain - A new mailing list would be my prefered choice.. If I had the bandwidth I would set it up.. Raymond de Bourbon -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
