RE: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

2004-04-17 Thread Ross Ferris

Best answer: don't use sub-values.  They're evil, anyway.


I've been somewhat surprised over recent years by the number of software companies 
that not only use SVM, but go down a level or 2 from that !

If you are using the standard inbuilt facilities of ANY of the mv systems, they have 
never coped well with SVM - but I wouldn't necessarily say they are evil. Indeed 
some of the ways I've seemed them used to map real world problems simplify the issues 
at hand, and can help render better performance.

To NOT use multi-values in an MV database to a certain extent diminishes one of the 
major arguments for using mv in the first place, doesn't it ? You are already 
compromising your design (perhaps) because of your choice of tool.

Perhaps we should all capitulate  start to use flat CSV files ?

Ross Ferris
Stamina Software
Visage  an Evolution in Software Development


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Geoffrey Mitchell
Sent: Saturday, 17 April 2004 4:06 AM
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

To my knowledge, no.  Not in Universe anyway.  I *think* (from the docs,
I've never played with it) that UniData has a way to map sub-values to
ODBC/JDBC, but UniVerse does not.  Multivalues work fine, but it doesn't
go any lower than that.

Best answer: don't use sub-values.  They're evil, anyway.

On Fri, 2004-04-16 at 12:48, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thank you, but what is the exact method to do this?
 I have never seen a view of SVM level data that actually works.
 Using ODBC or any other tool
 And by works I mean that it understands the relationship of the SVM
data to the VM data and the relationship of that to the AM data and
properly processes table-in-a-table configurations for editing, etc.

 It's one thing to use BY-EXP to understand VM level tables, but can you
really use some tool to understand SVM embedded data at that second table
level?
 Will


 In a message dated 4/16/2004 1:03:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Will,
 
  I'm not sure if this is what you're asking but all it does is create a
  virtual view of the data into 1nf tables that Excel (in this case)
sees
  and understands.
 
  Note: I have only done this with UniData and D3 and I know UniVerse
does it
  a little differently.
 
  --
  Colin Alfke
  Calgary, Alberta Canada
 
  Just because something isn't broken doesn't mean that you can't fix
it
 
  Stu Pickles
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 9:26 AM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?
  
  
  In a message dated 4/15/2004 12:52:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
  
   You can use the UniVerse ODBC Driver to pull the data from
  UniVerse to
   Excel, using correct dictionaries UniVerse will normalise
  the data and sort
   out the VM and SVM for you.
  
  Jonathan can you give a exact method for sorting of
  SVM's
  within Universe
  using an ODBC (or really any tool).
  I am not aware of this
  Thank you
  Will
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Knights Direct


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Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

2004-04-17 Thread Results
Ross,

Perhaps we should all capitulate  start to use flat CSV files ?
You expect delimiters? When I started in computers, our binary only had zeros 
- and we were glad to have them!
The thing about MV or flat really comes down to a case-by-case to my way of 
thinking. I generally program Order Entry systems as 1NF, even on MV systems. Pricing, 
Inventory, and any number of other parts tend to lend themselves to MV. I like being 
able to choose the best form for each case.
--

Sincerely,
 Charles Barouch
 www.KeyAlly.com
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

2004-04-17 Thread Mark Johnson
Let's not forget the lower case L for 1 (one).

- Original Message -
From: Larry Hiscock [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: U2 Users Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 2:08 PM
Subject: RE: UV to Text Conversion Standard?


  You expect delimiters? When I started in computers, our binary
  only had zeros - and we were glad to have them!

 You had zeros?!?  We had to use the letter O   ;-

 Larry Hiscock
 Western Computer Services


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Behalf Of Results
 Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 10:54 AM
 To: U2 Users Discussion List
 Subject: Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?


 Ross,

 Perhaps we should all capitulate  start to use flat CSV files ?

 You expect delimiters? When I started in computers, our binary only had
 zeros - and we were glad to have them!
 The thing about MV or flat really comes down to a case-by-case to my way
of
 thinking. I generally program Order Entry systems as 1NF, even on MV
 systems. Pricing, Inventory, and any number of other parts tend to lend
 themselves to MV. I like being able to choose the best form for each case.

 --

  Sincerely,
   Charles Barouch
   www.KeyAlly.com
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

2004-04-17 Thread FFT2001
In a message dated 4/17/2004 6:14:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


 Perhaps we should all capitulate  start to use flat CSV files ?
 
 Ross Ferris
 Stamina Software
 Visage  an Evolution in Software Development

Having created a system on a MAC that does use flat CSV files to mimic mv, 
I feel able to say ... its a pain in the butt.  But a great learning 
experience.
   Doing this gave me a new understanding and appreciation for what the 
system programmers did when they created the mv system.
Will
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Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

2004-04-17 Thread FFT2001
In a message dated 4/17/2004 4:06:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


 Another standard is that used by the UNLOAD.FILE.B program and its 
 corresponding bulk loader utility loadfile.
 Here, a line beginning with other than a TAB character or one of /}, /] 
 or \{ contains a key value, a tab and the first element of the data dynamic 
 array.
 A line beginning with a tab contains the first element of the next field in 
 the data dynamic array.
 A line beginning with /} and a tab contains the next first element of the 
 next value in the currently-being-processed multi-valued field.
 And so on

Easy for you to say.
Will
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Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

2004-04-16 Thread FFT2001
In a message dated 4/15/2004 12:52:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


 You can use the UniVerse ODBC Driver to pull the data from UniVerse to
 Excel, using correct dictionaries UniVerse will normalise the data and sort
 out the VM and SVM for you.

Jonathan can you give a exact method for sorting of SVM's within Universe 
using an ODBC (or really any tool).
I am not aware of this
Thank you
Will
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Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

2004-04-16 Thread FFT2001
In a message dated 4/15/2004 6:12:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


 Will - your posting mentioned CONVERT(VM,|, mydata) - my version of UV
 does not seem to like that.

Jim, Excel CAN read comma delimited data.  Ask again why the requirement for 
fixed length?  Excel DOES NOT NEED fixed length :)

Ok now having said that.  Type HELP BASIC CONVERT to see what options you 
have and what the syntax is for your version.

Barring that, presumably you are using UV 8.0 or lower or something...
Then you can achieve the same result with a loop on
WhereVM = INDEX(MYSTRING,@VM,1)
mystring = mystring[1,wherevm-1]:,:mystring[wherevm+1,len(mystring)]
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RE: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

2004-04-16 Thread alfkec
I've done lots of tables in UniData with VM levels of data. We only have a
couple of files that have SVM level data - a co-worker of mine set at least
one up that was working with Crystal reports.

For the multi-values it simply keeps the information that it needs to access
it as part of the primary key. I would think that it simply does the same
with subvalues.

You just appear to have a lot more tables and some of them have some pretty
funky primary keys. 

hth
-- 
Colin Alfke
Calgary, Alberta Canada

Just because something isn't broken doesn't mean that you can't fix it

Stu Pickles


-Original Message-
From: Geoffrey Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 12:06 PM
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?


To my knowledge, no.  Not in Universe anyway.  I *think* (from 
the docs,
I've never played with it) that UniData has a way to map sub-values to
ODBC/JDBC, but UniVerse does not.  Multivalues work fine, but 
it doesn't
go any lower than that.

Best answer: don't use sub-values.  They're evil, anyway.

On Fri, 2004-04-16 at 12:48, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thank you, but what is the exact method to do this?
 I have never seen a view of SVM level data that actually works.
 Using ODBC or any other tool
 And by works I mean that it understands the relationship 
of the SVM data to the VM data and the relationship of that to 
the AM data and properly processes table-in-a-table 
configurations for editing, etc.
 
 It's one thing to use BY-EXP to understand VM level tables, 
but can you really use some tool to understand SVM embedded 
data at that second table level?
 Will
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re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

2004-04-15 Thread james . ronan
Thanks to all that replied to my posting. I read a few replies suggesting
that I use  XML and not fixed length. As I stated in my original note,
fixed length was a requirement. I guess I should have supplied more
information.

Part of my company was recently sold.  The buying company has asked that I
send them data associated with the business that they bought. Their
requirement is that the data sent to them be importable  into an Excel
Spreadsheet.  Personally I don't think it will ever be part of a
spreadsheet.  I think the approach they are taking is that if it can go
into a spread sheet, they can import it into almost anything.

As for the data, my source file is variable length.  I plan on parsing
through it, capturing the longest field lengths and letting the captured
length determine what the fixed length of the data items will be.  One row
in my output file will be the equivalent of a record in my source file.
The row will contain all of the source fields from one record, formatted
into a fixed length (left justified, space filled), concatenated together.
As long as I tell the recipients of the data , what the data lengths are,
they should not have a problem putting the data into column format.


I had though that the PC would choke on the UV delimiters but thanks to a
couple of posts, I tested it out and Excel can handle VMs SVMs and TMs, so
other than stripping out garbage characters, I think I am all set.


Will - your posting mentioned CONVERT(VM,|, mydata) - my version of UV
does not seem to like that.


Thanks to everyone that took the time to read my note.

To all the people that e-mailed me privately, offering to sell me products
to do this - thanks but I will only be doing this once.

Jim


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 8:34 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: UV to Text Conversion Standard?


I am hopeful someone can offer me some guidance.

I have to move data off of my Universe system and send it to a PC for
inclusion in a Excel Spreadsheet.

Some background:
Source data is alpha/ numeric and contains VM's, SVMs and TM
Source data fields are variable lengths

Requirements:
Output must be fixed length
Output must be importable into Excel (column definitions will
be based on a fixed length map)

My problem:
I think Excel will choke on VMs, SVMs and TM characters. Is there a
standard , ASCII character that I should use to represent them? To further
complicate things, sone of the fields represent data that was input with
little (or no restrictions), ie. any character on the keyboard was
considered valid.

Thanks

Jim


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RE: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

2004-04-15 Thread Rainer Gromansperg
In UV the CONVERT command is

CONVERT VM TO | IN mydata

Or to make it really usable for EXCEL

CONVERT VM TO CHAR(9) IN mydata

which changes VM to TAB and EXCEL can read it directly.

Rainer 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, 15 April 2004 23:11
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?


SNIP...


Will - your posting mentioned CONVERT(VM,|, mydata) - my version of UV
does not seem to like that.


SNIP...


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Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

2004-04-14 Thread David Beahm
First off, what are you planning to do with the data once you have it in 
Excel?  In most cases it won't be useful unless you explode/flatten the 
data out.  We have a few (UniData) solutions for turning LIST/SORT/CT 
output into symbolic link/html(with or without table view)/csv files, 
and use SBClient to handle passing the file to the client PC and opening 
the correct application.

Best,
David Beahm
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I am hopeful someone can offer me some guidance.

I have to move data off of my Universe system and send it to a PC for
inclusion in a Excel Spreadsheet.
Some background:
Source data is alpha/ numeric and contains VM's, SVMs and TM
Source data fields are variable lengths
Requirements:
Output must be fixed length
Output must be importable into Excel (column definitions will be based on a
fixed length map)
My problem:
I think Excel will choke on VMs, SVMs and TM characters. Is there a
standard , ASCII character that I should use to represent them? To further
complicate things, sone of the fields represent data that was input with
little (or no restrictions), ie. any character on the keyboard was
considered valid.
Thanks

Jim


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Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

2004-04-14 Thread FFT2001
Jim the short answer is you can't.
You can however strip all non printable characters by passing the data 
through OCONV(mydata, MCP)
This turns all non printables into the period character .
To seperate your fields, pass the data through a conversion like 
CONVERT(VM,|, mydata)
which will turns all VM's into the vertical bar character
and so on

Excel has no problem with variable length fields, it has a problem with how 
to determine where they end.
It can read standard comma-seperated data however, so pass your data through 
CONVERT(AM,,,mydata) to indicate where each field ends.

However Multi-value data is not first normal form, it has embedded tables 
whenever you have VM, SVM or TM characters within one field.  Excel will not 
understand what to do with this.  For that you would need a programmer.

Let me see if I know one around here

Will Johnson
Fast Forward Technologies  -- I put the ech in tech

In a message dated 4/14/2004 7:35:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


 I am hopeful someone can offer me some guidance.
 
 I have to move data off of my Universe system and send it to a PC for
 inclusion in a Excel Spreadsheet.
 
 Some background:
 Source data is alpha/ numeric and contains VM's, SVMs and TM
 Source data fields are variable lengths
 
 Requirements:
 Output must be fixed length
 Output must be importable into Excel (column definitions will be based on a
 fixed length map)
 
 My problem:
 I think Excel will choke on VMs, SVMs and TM characters. Is there a
 standard , ASCII character that I should use to represent them? To further
 complicate things, sone of the fields represent data that was input with
 little (or no restrictions), ie. any character on the keyboard was
 considered valid.
 
 Thanks
 
 Jim

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RE: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

2004-04-14 Thread Jeff Schasny
You might look at Cedarville Download (ftp.cedarville.edu). Its a free
utility written in UD/UV Basic that will output CSV, HTML, XML, and DIF
files (all of which are directly readable by Excel) from command line
queries.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 7:34 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: UV to Text Conversion Standard?


I am hopeful someone can offer me some guidance.

I have to move data off of my Universe system and send it to a PC for
inclusion in a Excel Spreadsheet.

Some background:
Source data is alpha/ numeric and contains VM's, SVMs and TM
Source data fields are variable lengths

Requirements:
Output must be fixed length
Output must be importable into Excel (column definitions will be based on a
fixed length map)

My problem:
I think Excel will choke on VMs, SVMs and TM characters. Is there a
standard , ASCII character that I should use to represent them? To further
complicate things, sone of the fields represent data that was input with
little (or no restrictions), ie. any character on the keyboard was
considered valid.

Thanks

Jim


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RE: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

2004-04-14 Thread Brian Leach
Jim,

I don't see why on earth you want to use fixed length data with Excel.

Do you need to normalize the data or are you intending to use multi-line
cells? 

The best way to importing multiline cells into Excel is to generate a HTML
file that represents the spreadsheet cells as an HTML table. You can then
import line breaks using the HTML br tag. It requires a few lines of code,
but it is pretty trivial.

If you are normalizing the data, you can dump the data into an XML format
using an exploded SORT with the TOXML keyword. You can then load that
directly, at least if you are running Excel 2003.

Or - blatant plug - if you are doing this repeatedly, you might want to take
a look at mvQuery.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 14 April 2004 15:34
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

I am hopeful someone can offer me some guidance.

I have to move data off of my Universe system and send it to a PC for
inclusion in a Excel Spreadsheet.

Some background:
Source data is alpha/ numeric and contains VM's, SVMs and TM Source data
fields are variable lengths

Requirements:
Output must be fixed length
Output must be importable into Excel (column definitions will be based on a
fixed length map)

My problem:
I think Excel will choke on VMs, SVMs and TM characters. Is there a standard
, ASCII character that I should use to represent them? To further complicate
things, sone of the fields represent data that was input with little (or no
restrictions), ie. any character on the keyboard was considered valid.

Thanks

Jim


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Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

2004-04-14 Thread FFT2001
In a message dated 4/14/2004 8:29:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


 If you are normalizing the data, you can dump the data into an XML format
 using an exploded SORT with the TOXML keyword. You can then load that
 directly, at least if you are running Excel 2003.
 

Brian, not every implementation supports TOXML keyword
Will
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RE: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

2004-04-14 Thread Chuck Mongiovi
 The best way to importing multiline cells into Excel is to generate a HTML
 file that represents the spreadsheet cells as an HTML table. You can then
 import line breaks using the HTML br tag. It requires a few lines of
code,
 but it is pretty trivial.

Has anyone ever tried using the SYLK format?

(FYI - if you've never heard of it, try www.wotsit.org and search for SYLK)

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Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

2004-04-14 Thread Richard A. Wilson
I use it all the time using our inhouse utilities and it works well. I 
do remember something strange in the totalling logic of sylk, something 
about being relative to the current row I believe.

Rich

Chuck Mongiovi wrote:

The best way to importing multiline cells into Excel is to generate a HTML
file that represents the spreadsheet cells as an HTML table. You can then
import line breaks using the HTML br tag. It requires a few lines of
code,

but it is pretty trivial.


Has anyone ever tried using the SYLK format?

(FYI - if you've never heard of it, try www.wotsit.org and search for SYLK)

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Voice 401-231-3959
Fax   401-231-3943
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RE: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

2004-04-14 Thread Brian Leach
True,

But Jim didn't specify his version of UniVerse.

if his version does support TOXML it may still be the simplest option, and
avoids having to do any coding.

If not, it is always available on the Personal Edition ...

Brian 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 14 April 2004 16:34
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

In a message dated 4/14/2004 8:29:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


 If you are normalizing the data, you can dump the data into an XML format
 using an exploded SORT with the TOXML keyword. You can then load that
 directly, at least if you are running Excel 2003.
 

Brian, not every implementation supports TOXML keyword
Will
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RE: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

2004-04-14 Thread Wendy Smoak

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Brian, not every implementation supports TOXML keyword
 Will

But they all support Cedarville DOWNLOAD, which works better than the
TOXML keyword anyway.  It will catch up, I'm sure, but for now, DOWNLOAD
is more flexible.  AFAIK neither of them lets you create XML in memory,
I always had to write a file.

I _was_ doing a nightly export to a third party, calling a web service
with CallHTTP and POSTing a bunch of XML to them.  Fun!  Too bad the
powers that be decided to discontinue using that vendor.

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Application Systems Analyst, Sr.
ASU IA Information Resources Management 
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RE: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

2004-04-14 Thread alfkec
Jim;

As you may have noticed from the replies: there are a number of ways to do
this. Depending on the number of files/fields and the frequency you want to
do this, and any connection options you currently have will affect your
final choice.

You may want something powerful like a data transformation tool (eg. zeus,
mvquery, etc).

You could setup an ODBC/oleDB/UniObjects links.

Custom programs to create normalized (or not) text delimited or fixed length
file(s) - these could even be in excel format.

Something like the download utility from ftp.cedarville.edu.

The later versions of UniData (I'm not sure about UniVerse) have some
extensions to the list statement to put the output to an OS file using the
TO and TOXML keywords.

Some things to consider:

Excel won't choke on the VM's etc they are ascii characters in the 250
range. It will however treat them as a text character and not as any type of
delimiter.

When converting to fixed length do you want to truncate fields or make sure
they are at least as large as the largest data value?

hth
-- 
Colin Alfke
Calgary, Alberta Canada

Just because something isn't broken doesn't mean that you can't fix it

Stu Pickles

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 8:34 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: UV to Text Conversion Standard?


I am hopeful someone can offer me some guidance.

I have to move data off of my Universe system and send it to a PC for
inclusion in a Excel Spreadsheet.

Some background:
Source data is alpha/ numeric and contains VM's, SVMs and TM
Source data fields are variable lengths

Requirements:
Output must be fixed length
Output must be importable into Excel (column definitions will 
be based on a
fixed length map)

My problem:
I think Excel will choke on VMs, SVMs and TM characters. Is there a
standard , ASCII character that I should use to represent 
them? To further
complicate things, sone of the fields represent data that was 
input with
little (or no restrictions), ie. any character on the keyboard was
considered valid.

Thanks

Jim


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RE: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

2004-04-14 Thread Morelli, David
I am no expert on DOWNLOAD.  However, today I loaded a new 7.10 version
for our development account (live and test will remain on 7.02 until
confirmation of functionality).  About 10 minutes after I ftp'd the zip
file from cedarville, I was up and running on 7.10.  The readme at
ftp.cedarville.edu gives the instructions.

Syntax is very similar to the LIST statement.  If you are curious the
manual is a pdf file at the same site.

David Morelli, UIS/Datatel Team 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 11:14 AM
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?


In a message dated 4/14/2004 12:08:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 But they all support Cedarville DOWNLOAD, which works better than the 
 TOXML keyword anyway.  It will catch up, I'm sure, but for now, 
 DOWNLOAD is more flexible.  AFAIK neither of them lets you create XML 
 in memory, I always had to write a file.
 
 I _was_ doing a nightly export to a third party, calling a web service

 with CallHTTP and POSTing a bunch of XML to them.  Fun!
 Too bad the
 powers that be decided to discontinue using that vendor.

I've never used DOWNLOAD but does it require you to do exploding sorts
in order to capture this embedded data the poster was originally talking
about?

And how exactly do you explode data that is SVM or TM delimited?  I mean
sure you could write a program, but then that's what I recommended. Will
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