[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2015-04-07 Thread Bug Watch Updater
** Changed in: firefox
   Status: Unknown = Invalid

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Title:
  Should make downloaded files-read only

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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2010-03-16 Thread pmaxx
I agree, there should be a config file.  Here's my usecase:  We use an
online doc storage app.  The permanent storage is in the cloud.  We want
to be able to download a doc, edit it, and store the edits back in the
cloud.  We still have to do save as at the end,  but we are using OO
and it's just plain awkward to have to click the edit button before we
can save.  The read only status looks like a bug to the end user.

Tools should not force the user to change their work habits to fit the
tool.

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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2010-03-16 Thread pmaxx
Typo:

it's just plain awkward to have to click the edit button before we can save
should be 
it's just plain awkward to have to click the edit button before we can edit

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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2010-02-18 Thread jzacsh
I think it would be awesome if there would be a config file I could set
somewhere to change this behaviour. I _hate_ having to save as... for
a file i _don't_ want to save

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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2009-03-05 Thread John Vivirito
You want save and openwith to work the same? save to somewhere other than /tmp? 
same permissions?
From what i gather from your comments this is not really a firefox issue. Open 
with should save to /tmp since you are not intending to keep it Until you save 
it in the doc viewer. When saving to disk using save as is saving the doc. 
with the intention of reading/editing later.

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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2009-03-03 Thread bettlebrox
How does one disable ths behaviour in Firefox?

I often have Firefox save and open files in /tmp, and I find it a real
pain to have to chmod the files so I can edit them. And I find it quite
useful to save files in /tmp that I want to edit but I don't want to
save long term as I know they'll be deleted upon reboot (instead of
having them cluttering up my Desktop or ~/Documents directory).

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Re: [Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2009-03-03 Thread Nikolaus Rath
bettlebrox mick.timony+ubu...@gmail.com writes:
 I often have Firefox save and open files in /tmp, and I find it a real
 pain to have to chmod the files so I can edit them.

This is a bug in the application that you're using to edit the files.
It'd be great if you could report it there.

 And I find it quite useful to save files in /tmp that I want to edit
 but I don't want to save long term as I know they'll be deleted upon
 reboot

Relying on this is probably a bad idea. At least my version of Firefox
deletes these files as soon as it terminates. On the other hand, files
in /tmp are also not guaranteed to be deleted upon reboot.


Best,


   -Nikolaus

-- 
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  PGP fingerprint: 5B93 61F8 4EA2 E279 ABF6  02CF A9AD B7F8 AE4E 425C

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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2009-03-03 Thread bettlebrox
This is a bug in the application that you're using to edit the files.
No I don't think it is a bug in the application that I'm using to edit the 
files, it's the behaviour of the application I'm using to download the files, 
in this case Firefox. 

For example, if I download a word document, Firefox saves it with 644
permissions to my default download location. If instead I choose to
open the file (using FF's Open With dialog window) it saves the file
to /tmp with 400 permissions and the file is unwriteable. This is not
the same behaviour that (I remember) with Hardy, and to me it's not a
feature enhancement as it reduces my productivity. However, I do see
where this could be beneficial new Linux  Ubuntu users who might be
aware that the file is in /tmp and may be removed upon reboot.

I would like to have the option to change this behaviour, or at least
know where this is set so I can determine how to change the behaviour
myself.

Relying on this is probably a bad idea.
It's worked OK for me for the past 10 years! ;)

/tmp normally is cleaned automatically upon reboot. The length of time
files are retained in /tmp can be configured via the /etc/default/rcS
configuration file. By default this is set to zero which means that no
files will be retained in /tmp upon restart.

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Re: [Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-06-19 Thread Nikolaus Rath
bjakeway [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 A possible alternative solution is that when the *user* saves a
 downloaded file for the first time, the Save As dialog appears, even
 though the file already has a temporary name.

Which is exactly what is supposed to happen if the user changes a
read-only file.

Best,

   -Nikolaus

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 Class of 2008 - Physics | Jacobs University Bremen

 »My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.«

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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-06-19 Thread bjakeway
The problem I have with this solution is not one where I am saving to
the file system.  I am trying to save to a database and I get a Save-As
dialog.

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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-06-18 Thread jsandeo
Yes, and uTorrent should fix their app too...
http://support.mozilla.com/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?comments_parentId=65735forumId=1

(to be continued...)

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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-06-18 Thread bjakeway
I have an application in which I users download a document, open the
document, make changes to it, and upload it to a database.  I would like
the temporary file removed, so don't need users to save this file.  The
change to Firefox 3.0 prevents users from saving the file to the
database once they have downloaded the file, opened it, and made their
changes.  Instead, the file must be saved to the file system before it
can be uploaded to the database.

Thus, I disagree with the decision that temporary files should be marked
as read-only.

A possible alternative solution is that when the *user* saves a
downloaded file for the first time, the Save As dialog appears, even
though the file already has a temporary name.

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Re: [Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-06-09 Thread Alexander Sack
On Fri, Jun 06, 2008 at 12:42:00PM -, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
 
 He files a bug for the respective application, it gets fixed at some
 point, and he lives happily ever after.
 

Right, fix the editor applications to have a sane read-only editing
behaviour. So complain there, they might be more open about fixing
this than you might  expect :) ...

 - Alexander

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Re: [Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-06-09 Thread Alexander Sack
On Fri, Jun 06, 2008 at 06:08:37AM -, Eric wrote:
 Since Openoffice does not allow you to change anything about a file when
 its read only, not even change the sort order, I have to open the file,
 save it (in /tmp), just to change the sort order.  I am okay with the
 default functionality the way it is for the Linux newbies, but I need an
 option in both Firefox and Thunderbird that allows me to use the
 applications like I have for years.
 
 Does anyone know of a way to do this?
 

This is an openoffice issue - they should reconsider how they deal
with read-only files and should offer the user to breach any kind of
read-only mode easily.


 - Alexander

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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-06-06 Thread Eric
I also find this change highly annoying.  I guess I understand why
people who are new to Linux would not understand that saving their
important files in /tmp is bad.  But to people who have used Linux for a
long time and are accustom to the old functionality this is really
intrusive.  For myself I have lots of reports that are downloaded from
the web or email.  I open these reports in open office, change the
sorting or formatting to take a look at the data, then close the file.
I don't care about the changes that I have made, I just wanted to look
at the data a different way for the moment.  So it works out really well
that these files are saved to /tmp and eventually automatically deleted.
Since Openoffice does not allow you to change anything about a file when
its read only, not even change the sort order, I have to open the file,
save it (in /tmp), just to change the sort order.  I am okay with the
default functionality the way it is for the Linux newbies, but I need an
option in both Firefox and Thunderbird that allows me to use the
applications like I have for years.

Does anyone know of a way to do this?

Thanks

Eric

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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-06-06 Thread jsandeo
IMHO OpenOffice is just an example of application that illustrates a use-case 
scenario where this feature proves to be flawn.
If we decide that all downloads are to be opened on read-only mode by the 
target application, then we have to change the behavior of all the possible 
target applications for a download, if we want to be able to edit the file no 
matter its permissions:
- OpenOffice
- Koffice
- Video-editing Sw
- Audio-editing Sw
- Plaintext editors
...
you name it

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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-06-06 Thread Nikolaus Rath
What about changing the OpenOffice behaviour instead? It seems to me
that editing a read-only file should be possible, as long as the changes
end up under a new name.

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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-06-06 Thread Nikolaus Rath
I think you're missing the point. Firefox behaves correctly, OpenOffice
probably doesn't. The fact that other applications might behave wrongly
as well doesn't make it less wrong.

But apart from that: have you actually checked how other applications
behave? Gedit for example already allows to edit a read-only file just
fine. It correctly warns that changes cannot be saved and offers to save
the file under a new name.

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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-06-06 Thread jsandeo
Well, I guess it all depends on how we look at the problem...

I can understand why you say that Firefox behaves correctly by saving
downloads as read-only, but then would that mean that wget behaves
wrongly by saving downloads with user-set permissions? I don't think so.
It all depends on the use-case scenario, ie. it all depends on what the
user wants to actually do with the file, but this is of course, we don't
know.

On certain use-case scenarios, saving read-only is annoying because the
target application may behave unexpectedly because of the file's
permissions (the OpenOffice case, for example). Let's name this the
JohnnyBrowser's use-case scenario. On other use-case scenarios, saving
with write permissions can mislead the user to believe that he has saved
a file that will be swept away. Say this is JohnnyKeeper's use-case
scenario.

The problem here is that you must take a decision. Our goal here should
be to try annoying users the least possible.

Say we save with write permissions: user JohnnyKeeper will eventually learn 
that if he does not save as his downloads to a well-known directory, he ends 
up loosing them. It will cost him a few data losses, but he will eventually 
learn and live happily ever after. User JohhnyBrowser leaves happily.
On a daily basis, here is what these 2 guys end up doing:
JohnnyKeeper opens a document, edits it, then does a save as, chooses a new 
file name, saves, then closes application.
JohhnyBrowser opens a document, edits it, then closes application.

Say we save with read-only permissions: user JohnnyKeeper will eventually learn 
that he can't save directly, but must first do a save as if he wants to 
keep/edit the downloaded file. He will never loose data, and live happily ever 
after. User JohnnyBrowser will eventually learn that with certain downloads he 
can't edit directly, but must first do a save as. He will never live happily, 
wondering why he must save and name a file he does not want to keep anyway.
On a daily basis, here is what these 2 guys end up doing:
JohnnyKeeper opens a document, then does a save as, chooses a new file name, 
saves, edits the file, then saves, then closes application.
JohhnyBrowser opens a document, then does a save as, chooses a new file name, 
saves, edits the file, then closes application.

If we save read-only, both users end up doing more tasks (on certain
apps, of course), and in some cases they end up doing tasks that have
nothing to do with their goals.

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Re: [Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-06-06 Thread Nikolaus Rath
jsandeo [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 I can understand why you say that Firefox behaves correctly by saving
 downloads as read-only, but then would that mean that wget behaves
 wrongly by saving downloads with user-set permissions? I don't think
 so. It all depends on the use-case scenario, ie. it all depends on
 what the user wants to actually do with the file, but this is of
 course, we don't know.

No, this isn't a proper comparison. If you *download* a file, firefox
behaves exactly like wget. What we are talking about is the case where
you tell firefox to *open* the file, i.e. act as a viewer.

 Say we save with write permissions: user JohnnyKeeper will
 eventually learn that if he does not save as his downloads to a
 well-known directory, he ends up loosing them. It will cost him a
 few data losses, but he will eventually learn and live happily ever
 after. User JohhnyBrowser leaves happily. On a daily basis, here is
 what these 2 guys end up doing: JohnnyKeeper opens a document, edits
 it, then does a save as, chooses a new file name, saves, then
 closes application. JohhnyBrowser opens a document, edits it, then
 closes application.

I am sorry, but I can not agree with this. If something costs a few
data losses it can never be a viable option, no matter how happy it
may make how many people.


 Say we save with read-only permissions: user JohnnyKeeper will
 eventually learn that he can't save directly, but must first do a
 save as if he wants to keep/edit the downloaded file. He will
 never loose data, and live happily ever after. User JohnnyBrowser
 will eventually learn that with certain downloads he can't edit
 directly, but must first do a save as.

He files a bug for the respective application, it gets fixed at some
point, and he lives happily ever after.

Best,

   -Nikolaus

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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-06-06 Thread jsandeo
You are right that the wget comparison was not proper, but actually my
point was: there is no such thing as right/wrong behaviour, because it
all depends on what the user wants to do with the file, which we don't
know. So I am not talking about bugs here, just about features.

An OpenOffice developer could reasonably argue that OpenOffice documents
that have only read permissions should not be editable by default. We
could probably find a use-case scenario where that makes sense and would
save someone from wasting time editing a file he would never be able to
modify. I would not say such a behaviour is a bug, it is just a design
decision.

The key question here is which decision is less annoying for your users.

You decide that you rather go for the read-only option. That is fine, it
sure makes sense. But the fact is that the consequences for your users
are unavoidable. Users don't file bugs nor try to change developers'
minds, they just switch applications. They won't care whether FFox3 is
doing the right thing or not, they will just switch to FFox2, Opera,
Safari or whatever if that makes their life easier.

I would not say Opera or Safari are buggy if they save temporary files
with write permissions. They just made a different design decision.

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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-06-06 Thread Nikolaus Rath
Yes, I see your point.

Nevertheless, I think there is a difference between a feature being an
annoyance for some use cases and a feature causing dataloss. If I
understood you correctly, then we both agree that not making the files
read-only (or taking one of the other measures described in the initial
bug description) will result in dataloss when a (non-technical) user
follows his intuitive expectations. I think that is an entirely
different category than loosing a couple of seconds when the file is
read-only and needs to be saved under a new name. For that reason I very
much plead for the default behaviour to be read-only.

Making this configurable is something I'm not opposed to either, but I
fear that the developers may be reluctant to add too many optional
features.

It seems to me that we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

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Re: [Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-06-05 Thread Alexander Sack
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 10:48:12AM -, jsandeo wrote:
 I agree with Randall that this behaviour is quite annoying.
 We also run a web application that allows us to download on-the-fly-generated 
 OpenOffice documents, for instance packing-list documents.
 A user downloads a packing-list just for printing, not for keeping the 
 document. But sometimes, before printing, it is useful to edit the document 
 to add some manual data. So what happens now with hardy is, the user needs to 
 save the document, then edit, then print.
 Is there any way for me to set the permissions with which firefox saves 
 downloaded files?
 

its fixed in hardy (ffox 3 and tbird 2)

 - Alexander

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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-06-05 Thread jsandeo
I must be missing something, because I actually started experiencing the
problem (both in ffox3  tbird) since I upgraded to hardy.

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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-05-30 Thread jsandeo
I agree with Randall that this behaviour is quite annoying.
We also run a web application that allows us to download on-the-fly-generated 
OpenOffice documents, for instance packing-list documents.
A user downloads a packing-list just for printing, not for keeping the 
document. But sometimes, before printing, it is useful to edit the document to 
add some manual data. So what happens now with hardy is, the user needs to save 
the document, then edit, then print.
Is there any way for me to set the permissions with which firefox saves 
downloaded files?

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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-05-13 Thread Randall
i find this highly annoying and disruptive  behavior, i have 70 users
depending on  firefox and a web application that makes contracts,
invoices, custom documents etc opening in openoffice.org

1 they don' t understand why their document is read-only all of  a sudden
2 using the edit button gives two confusing messages that look like error 
messages
3 after they used the edit button and went through the two errors, the file 
itself is still not saved. 
4 the web application gives files an understandable name, e.g 
contract-number-5642 (where this number is the actual contract number) and it 
should be saved this way, after the edit button it is untitled25455454545

maybe this works for others but for me it doesn 't

am i the only one?, will file a bug to find out.
in the meanwhile is there a way to change this behavior back to the way it was?

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Re: [Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-05-13 Thread Alexander Sack
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 01:19:48PM -, Randall wrote:
 i find this highly annoying and disruptive  behavior, i have 70 users
 depending on  firefox and a web application that makes contracts,
 invoices, custom documents etc opening in openoffice.org
 
 1 they don' t understand why their document is read-only all of  a sudden
 2 using the edit button gives two confusing messages that look like error 
 messages
 3 after they used the edit button and went through the two errors, the file 
 itself is still not saved. 
 4 the web application gives files an understandable name, e.g 
 contract-number-5642 (where this number is the actual contract number) and it 
 should be saved this way, after the edit button it is untitled25455454545
 
 maybe this works for others but for me it doesn 't
 
 am i the only one?, will file a bug to find out.
 in the meanwhile is there a way to change this behavior back to the way it 
 was?
 

This is a deficiency of the editing application that opens the
files. That application should pop up save as ... when you hit save
for a read-only file.

Without this change users regularaly loose their edited documents
...

 - Alexander

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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-04-28 Thread Bug Watch Updater
** Changed in: firefox
   Status: New = Invalid

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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-04-27 Thread Nikolaus Rath
** Bug watch added: Mozilla Bugzilla #431021
   https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=431021

** Also affects: firefox via
   https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=431021
   Importance: Unknown
   Status: Unknown

** Changed in: firefox (Ubuntu)
   Status: Incomplete = New

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Should make downloaded files-read only
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/90378
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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-04-27 Thread Bug Watch Updater
** Changed in: firefox
   Status: Unknown = New

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Should make downloaded files-read only
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/90378
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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2008-04-27 Thread Nikolaus Rath
Fixed upstream and included in hardy.

** Changed in: firefox (Ubuntu)
   Status: New = Fix Released

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Should make downloaded files-read only
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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2007-04-28 Thread Hilario J. Montoliu \(hjmf\)
** Tags added: mt-confirm

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Should make downloaded files-read only
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/90378
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[Bug 90378] Re: Should make downloaded files-read only

2007-03-24 Thread John Vivirito
** Changed in: firefox (Ubuntu)
   Importance: Undecided = Wishlist
 Assignee: (unassigned) = Mozilla Bugs
   Status: Unconfirmed = Needs Info

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Should make downloaded files-read only
https://launchpad.net/bugs/90378

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