At 19:30 -0800 2001-03-14, John Jenkins wrote:
A bigger consideration than the ones I've mentioned was that having
to rework Extension B to divide it into a BMP portion and a non-BMP
portion would have delayed part 2 of 10646, and that was not
acceptable. Moreover, the Japanese National Body
Lars,
I have programmed is 40-50 different programming languages and have even
built my own compilers with lex yacc. I learned programming by first
learning machine language from the circuit diagrams of an IBM 1401. Then I
learned assembler (AUTOCODER). It has given me a fundamental training
In hunting around for negative opinions about Unicode, I've found that
the majority of complaints relate to CJK character sets. Would listers
agree that this is the largest area of unrest? Or is it just that people
involved with CJK are vocal?
I've read periodic questions or comments from
Lars Marius Garshol [EMAIL PROTECTED] said about teaching LISP first:
Many universities do, using Scheme. It seems to work very well. Perhaps
in part because they get to use what many call the best book on
progrmaming ever written.
URL: http://www-mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/sicp.html
Lars mentions:
In hunting around for negative opinions about Unicode, I've found that
the majority of complaints relate to CJK character sets. Would listers
agree that this is the largest area of unrest? Or is it just that people
involved with CJK are vocal?
Maybe it's just that since Han ideographs now
On 15/03/2001 17:19:14 Kenneth Whistler wrote:
Maybe it's just that since Han ideographs now constitute slightly more
than 75% of the standard by count (and probably 90% of the standard
by weight), they have more to complain about.
How do you compute their weight? By pixel? By semantics?
At 09:58 -0800 2001-03-15, Suzanne M. Topping wrote:
In the spirit of appeasement, we could at least -weigh- them by radical.
How much does a radical weigh?
--
Michael Everson ** Everson Gunn Teoranta ** http://www.egt.ie
15 Port Chaeimhghein ochtarach; Baile tha Cliath 2; ire/Ireland
Mob
On Thursday, March 15, 2001, at 09:40 AM, Roozbeh Pournader wrote:
I don't know enough about CJK, but I believe CJK experts have mush more
experience in computerizing their scripts than bidi experts do. So their
nagging should have much more meaning than ours.
The nagging in CJK, however,
-Original Message-
From: Michael Everson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
How much does a radical weigh?
That depends on the radical of course!
Geez, and I thought you people were character specialists.
From: Michael Everson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
How much does a radical weigh?
I check in at about 200lb.
/|/|ike
On Thursday, March 15, 2001, at 10:33 AM, Suzanne M. Topping wrote:
-Original Message-
From: Michael Everson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
How much does a radical weigh?
That depends on the radical of course!
Actually, I think the correct answer is that a radical weighs as much
Suzanne M. Topping wrote:
How much does a radical weigh?
That depends on the radical of course!
Geez, and I thought you people were character specialists.
Obviously.
Abbie was a lightweight, Mao a heavyweight.
The hydroxyl radical weighs 17 kg per mole.
--
There is / one art
From: Michael Everson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
How much does a radical weigh?
I check in at about 200lb.
Well, somewhere between 1200lb and less I would have said ... leaving the
dragon aside, the horse radical would be the 'heaviest' of the bunch - of
course, if someone comes up
Apparently one of those 2-bite characters...
I am more of a 3-biter myself.
Trying to avoid the supplementary planes these days.
"Ayers, Mike" wrote:
How much does a radical weigh?
I check in at about 200lb.
--
According to Murphy, nothing goes according to Hoyle.
There is a certain amount of dissatisfaction with Unicode bidi among Hebrew
users in Israel. Fortunately for Unicode, the general public calls the Unicode
bidi algorithm "Microsoft Hebrew" and blame them.
Jony
-Original Message-
From: Roozbeh Pournader [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: from [EMAIL PROTECTED]
by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id s.de.119ce18c (26116)
for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:50:56
-0500 (EST)
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:50:55 EST
I was wondering if there was a
On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Jonathan Rosenne wrote:
There is a certain amount of dissatisfaction with Unicode bidi among Hebrew
users in Israel. Fortunately for Unicode, the general public calls the Unicode
bidi algorithm "Microsoft Hebrew" and blame them.
The problem you mention, is because the
REF. :
http://www.harper.cc.il.us/mhealy/g101ilec/namer/nac/nacnine/na9intro/nacninfr.htm
Deux critiques intéressantes et faites indépendamment
l'une de l'autre (une faite de Berlkeley, californie, l'autre de
Winnipeg, Manitoba) sur la thèse des 9 nations...
Two interesting comments made
And your suggestion for characters that sort *differently* in different
locales? You would want to add them multiple times?
michka
- Original Message -
From: "Markus Scherer" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "Unicode List" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 11:47 AM
Subject: Re:
Alain LaBont quoted:
Cependant l'auteur de cette classification dmontre un degr
d'ignorance du Canada.
"There are two kinds of Yanks, those who know nothing about Canada,
and those who don't care, either."
--me
Joel Garreau, though of Qubecois origin, is certainly a Usonian.
1.
On 03/15/2001 03:14:10 PM "Michael \(michka\) Kaplan" wrote:
And your suggestion for characters that sort *differently* in different
locales? You would want to add them multiple times?
What's the connection here with Markus' comment about Thai unfortunately
not being encoded in logical order?
On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The problem you mention, is because the Unicode bidi is used for data
entry,
Could you please explain a bit more of what that means. I'm not sure what
this is referring to, and I'm curious.
My previous post should have explained things a bit.
"Michael (michka) Kaplan" wrote:
And your suggestion for characters that sort *differently* in different
locales? You would want to add them multiple times?
Obviously not. Locale-sensitive collation is an independent issue, and, of course, we
provide it - now based on the UCA.
For collation
On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Michael (michka) Kaplan wrote:
There is no one single, intuitive algorithm that could
be used, which everyone would like.
I highly agree. This input method, or what you may call it, should be
locale-dependent. European numerals, which are just normal numerals in a
Hebrew
The connection would be that there are *many* cases where the ordering could
be (or rather could have been) different to make a particular subset of
implementers happier.
But if you make one group happy, someone else will be unhappy, I was just
pointing out an issue that affects a *lot* more
I think this would fall into the camp of "make one user happy, confuse the
heck out of another." There is no one single, intuitive algorithm that could
be used, which everyone would like.
With that said, I am sure that there are improvements that could be made
here. But they would have to be
From: Marco Cimarosti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Well, one wonders: could that president's madness possibly hide some
ingenuity?
/SNIP
Not really, I suspect. Unlike the situations you describe, American
foreign language training seems by and large to have the focus that
On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Do you think that split cursors that visually indicate where you are in the
text (e.g. you're entering between the last number and the following space
vs. you're entering between the first number and the preceding space --
these two perhaps
On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Michael (michka) Kaplan wrote:
There are enough people used to the current system that you will have a
fairly painful experience trying to update it, too. This is not just a
cross-locale issue, it is an intra-locale issue as well.
I know. Perhaps it's somehow like East
Suzanne M Topping wrote,
In hunting around for negative opinions about Unicode, ...
Markus Scherer wrote,
Let me add one complaint to your list:
Thai is not stored/used in logical order in Unicode.
and Michael Kaplan wrote,
And your suggestion for characters that sort
Yes, yes, I understood *that*.
I was kind of referring to the fact that if we coddle one implementer's
wish, then another (more common!) wish then rears its ugly head.
And of course now that the code points are encoded and its all considered
normative, they both share the same answer to anyone
In a message dated 2001-03-15 11:57:11 Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
A broad summary of the CJK issues that I gathered:
...
--Limited number of code points
If anyone is complaining that the number of code points in Unicode is too
limited (whether for CJK reasons or
There are a huge number of problems in the analysis of text that occur with
visual ordering; these are avoided with logical ordering, which is why we
ended up using that for Unicode.
Even with logical ordering, one can make the editing process work as you
describe. For example, for character
Markus complained:
Thai is not stored/used in logical order in Unicode.
Here's my contribution to the FAQ about Thai:
Q. Why isn't Thai stored/used in logical order in Unicode?
A. Once upon a time, the Unicode fore-parents inherited the Thai
industrial standard, which is an 8-bit standard
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