Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

Hi, I work on Chrome. I have to acknowledge that our implementation on UBA 6.3 is still not completed yet , nor the paired brackets either . We're working on improving it. It's not very clear to me whether this thread is discussing on paired

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

2016-11-27 15:09 GMT+01:00 Richard Wordingham < richard.wording...@ntlworld.com>: > > > They will be effectively "mirrored" by the keyboard, as I described. > > Except that a visual keyboard for an RTL writing system is highly unlikely > to > have U+300C and U+300D. > I spoke about multilingula

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 10:57:29 +0200 Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Philippe Verdy > > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2016 09:25:16 +0100 > > For Asian parentheses this is less a problem (you do not see the > > difference if the two parentheses are already symetric) than

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

> From: Philippe Verdy > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2016 09:25:16 +0100 > Cc: Richard Wordingham , > unicode Unicode Discussion > > No, I was speaking at the encoding level. Even if your Arabic keyboard > displays a ")",

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

No, I was speaking at the encoding level. Even if your Arabic keyboard displays a ")", and you type it, it will output/encode an open parenthesis "(", that will then be mirrored to display a ")" glyph, matching your key input. The Bidi algorithm will still render it RTL (i.e. it will reorder

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

> From: Philippe Verdy > Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2016 23:34:07 +0100 > Cc: unicode Unicode Discussion > > This also brings a question about Asian quotes, that are not mirrorable but > still swapped by Bidi ! If they are > not mirrorable, they should have a

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

Initially my thread was really about Japanese in Arabic documents (or Arabic paragraph), where Asian quotation marks were swapped (but not mirrored), and where other Arabic contents had their own quotation marks misplaced. The result was unreadable, including pairs of Arabic quotes with empty

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 02:47:10 +0100 Philippe Verdy wrote: > Look at where the Asian quotes are partially "moved" by the ASCII > quotes in Chrome. I presume this is referring to the attached file 0007.fhmbobjniphfamjk.png. There are two problems with using this example.

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

On 11/21/2016 5:47 PM, Philippe Verdy wrote: Look at where the Asian quotes are partially "moved" by the ASCII quotes in Chrome. How does Chrome enter into this? (What I posted is a screenshot from Thunderbird on Windows 7). It seems to fully match up the the example using the UPPER/lower

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

Look at where the Asian quotes are partially "moved" by the ASCII quotes in Chrome. May be the reason is that Chrome still does not use the new rules. You probably use another browser that implement other rules. 2016-11-21 23:58 GMT+01:00 Asmus Freytag : > On 11/21/2016

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

On 11/21/2016 2:02 PM, Philippe Verdy wrote: You don't need them, I just used lowercase letters for strong LTR characters and uppercase for RTL, just like in the existing Bidi test page. Use some random Arabic or Japanese words if you prefer. The difference is that I can cut/paste an actual

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

On 11/21/2016 2:17 PM, Philippe Verdy wrote: 2016-11-21 23:02 GMT+01:00 Philippe Verdy >: You don't need them, I just used lowercase letters for strong LTR characters and uppercase for RTL, just like in the existing Bidi test page.

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

2016-11-21 23:02 GMT+01:00 Philippe Verdy : > You don't need them, I just used lowercase letters for strong LTR > characters and uppercase for RTL, just like in the existing Bidi test page. > Use some random Arabic or Japanese words if you prefer. > > 2016-11-21 22:40

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

You don't need them, I just used lowercase letters for strong LTR characters and uppercase for RTL, just like in the existing Bidi test page. Use some random Arabic or Japanese words if you prefer. 2016-11-21 22:40 GMT+01:00 Asmus Freytag (c) : > On 11/21/2016 1:17 PM,

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

On 11/21/2016 1:17 PM, Philippe Verdy wrote: Examples were in the initial post I sent in this thread, or in other replies. In encoded order, it should be testing this: ARABIC-ONE "【japanese1】japanese2: “english1, « french1 », or「 japanese3」”。" ARABIC-TWO I don't see any actual Arabic or

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

Examples were in the initial post I sent in this thread, or in other replies. In encoded order, it should be testing this: ARABIC-ONE "【japanese1】japanese2: “english1, « french1 », or「 japanese3」”。 " ARABIC-TWO 2016-11-21 21:23 GMT+01:00 Asmus Freytag : > Can we get that

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

Can we get that example with actual code points, for testing? A./

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

2016-11-21 4:39 GMT+01:00 Eli Zaretskii : > > From: Philippe Verdy > > Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 21:19:40 +0100 > > Cc: Simon Cozens , > > unicode Unicode Discussion > > > > Note that if you get : > > > >

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

> From: Philippe Verdy > Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 21:19:40 +0100 > Cc: Simon Cozens , > unicode Unicode Discussion > > Note that if you get : > > OWT-CIBARA "Japanese2 【Japanese1】" ENO-CIBARA > > this means that the first

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

Note that if you get : OWT-CIBARA "Japanese2 【Japanese1】" ENO-CIBARA this means that the first quotation mark is "transparent" and preserves the RTL direction. And I don't see then how you can pair the final quotation mark, unless you consider it as "leading" the ARABIC-TWO part (meaning that

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

2016-11-20 19:19 GMT+01:00 Eli Zaretskii : > > From: Philippe Verdy > > Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 18:51:01 +0100 > > Cc: Simon Cozens , > > unicode Unicode Discussion > > > > Correction: I expect to see: > > > >

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

> From: Philippe Verdy > Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 18:51:01 +0100 > Cc: Simon Cozens , > unicode Unicode Discussion > > Correction: I expect to see: > > OWT-CIBARA Japanese2" 【Japanese1】" ENO-CIBARA I don't understand why.

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

>> I expect to see >> >> OWT-CIBARA Japanese2 【Japanese1】"" ENO-CIBARA >> >> aligned to the right margin >No, you should see this: > OWT-CIBARA "Japanese2 【Japanese1】" ENO-CIBARA Correction: I expect to see: OWT-CIBARA Japanese2" 【Japanese1】" ENO-CIBARA 2016-11-20 17:37 GMT+01:00 Eli

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

> Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 19:24:05 +0200 > From: Eli Zaretskii > Cc: si...@simon-cozens.org, unicode@unicode.org > > > From: Philippe Verdy > > Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 17:58:54 +0100 > > Cc: Simon Cozens , > > unicode Unicode

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

> From: Philippe Verdy > Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 17:58:54 +0100 > Cc: Simon Cozens , > unicode Unicode Discussion > > No, you should see this: > > OWT-CIBARA "Japanese2 【Japanese1】" ENO-CIBARA > > That's what Emacs

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

2016-11-20 17:37 GMT+01:00 Eli Zaretskii : > > From: Philippe Verdy > > Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 17:20:49 +0100 > > Cc: Simon Cozens , > > unicode Unicode Discussion > > > > The alignment of the paragraph to the

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

> From: Philippe Verdy > Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 17:20:49 +0100 > Cc: Simon Cozens , > unicode Unicode Discussion > > The alignment of the paragraph to the right is optional, it is less essential. It's essential for people

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

So it is an issue of Chrome, still not using the new rules. I thought it was already using them. The alignment of the paragraph to the right is optional, it is less essential. It would still be satisfactory to see: Japanese2 【Japanese1】 That alignment is prefered only when it is a separate

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

> From: Simon Cozens > Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 21:22:46 +1100 > > On 20/11/2016 19:46, Philippe Verdy wrote: > > Why don't the Japanese backets pair together to avoid having one > > mirrored and not the other one ? > > Isn't this the classic bidi brackets problem? The 【

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

> From: Philippe Verdy > Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 09:46:14 +0100 > > How should the following Japanese **paragraph** be displayed when inserted in > a RTL context > (Arabic/Farsi/...) ? > > 【Japanese1】Japanese2 > > What I see in browsers is: > > Japanese1】Japanese2 】 > >

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

Wasn't this corrected so that the direction of such 'bidi neutral" pairs should match, i.e. the leading character would adopt the direction of the trailing one in the same pair, rather than inheriting the direction from the outer context ? 2016-11-20 11:22 GMT+01:00 Simon Cozens

Re: Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

On 20/11/2016 19:46, Philippe Verdy wrote: > Why don't the Japanese backets pair together to avoid having one > mirrored and not the other one ? Isn't this the classic bidi brackets problem? The 【 is assumed to belong to the base level because it's bidi neutral, but the 】 is assumed to be part of

Bidi: inserting Japanese paragraphs in Arabic/Farsi document

How should the following Japanese **paragraph** be displayed when inserted in a RTL context (Arabic/Farsi/...) ? 【Japanese1】Japanese2 What I see in browsers is: Japanese1】Japanese2 】 Why don't the Japanese backets pair together to avoid having one mirrored and not the other one ?