Le 11/11/12 23:25, Frédéric Grosshans a écrit :
Le 11/11/2012 23:08, Doug Ewell a écrit :
Personal opinions follow.
It looks like the only actual use case we have, exemplified by the
xkcd strip, is for a star with the left half black and the right half
white. There *might* also be a case for
On Saturday 10 November 2012, John Knightley john.knight...@gmail.com wrote:
Whilst using the PUA is far from perfect at the end of the day it is better
than the alternative of not using the PUA.
Yes. The Private Use Area is a very useful facility in that it allows
characters of one's own
Kent Karlsson:
Den 2012-11-11 23:08, skrev Doug Ewell d...@ewellic.org:
or turning Unicode into a standard for rating systems in general,
Using digits, it already covers that.
Here I agree. (Not sure why that branch of this tread is still ongoing...)
Perhaps because today people usually
Jean-François Colson jf at colson dot eu wrote:
I wonder whether similar half-filled stars would be required for
vertically written text.
Would a star black above, white below, be required for vertically
written Japanese, Mongolian, Sutton, Tangut, Phags-pa, etc.?
Would a star white above,
Christoph Päper christoph dot paeper at crissov dot de wrote:
Here I agree. (Not sure why that branch of this tread is still
ongoing...)
Perhaps because today people usually write, in inline HTML[1],
something like
img alt=2½ out of 5 stars src=2.5_stars.png
instead of
img alt=1
2012/11/12 Asmus Freytag asm...@ix.netcom.com
On 11/11/2012 9:26 PM, Philippe Verdy wrote:
2012/11/12 Asmus Freytag asm...@ix.netcom.com
However, the half-filled, five pointed stars are garden-variety type
symbols, and, as I keep pointing out, they absolutely fall within the scope
of
It is a good question when many of these pictograms (including basic
geometric shapes) are coming from former CJK encodings, where vertical
layout is common, AND the ideaphic composition square facilitates a lot
their insertion (and it is the major reason why many emojis were highly
developed
On 11/12/2012 10:13 AM, Philippe Verdy wrote:
2012/11/12 Asmus Freytag asm...@ix.netcom.com
mailto:asm...@ix.netcom.com
On 11/11/2012 9:26 PM, Philippe Verdy wrote:
2012/11/12 Asmus Freytag asm...@ix.netcom.com
mailto:asm...@ix.netcom.com
However, the half-filled, five
William, I think you have a unreasonable idea of what a standard actually is.
You have already made a standard and published it - I've seen all the posts at
the FCP forum. All you have to do is let people use it. If a user community is
going to exchange data, they will do so, and it just plain
2012/11/12 Asmus Freytag asm...@ix.netcom.com
On 11/12/2012 10:13 AM, Philippe Verdy wrote:
2012/11/12 Asmus Freytag asm...@ix.netcom.com
On 11/11/2012 9:26 PM, Philippe Verdy wrote:
2012/11/12 Asmus Freytag asm...@ix.netcom.com
However, the half-filled, five pointed stars are
In the business of character encoding, it's not helpful to try to
construct algorithmic rules that lead from one set of conditions to the
state of encoded. It just doesn't work that way.
What does work is to think of factors, or criteria, that you can use in
weighing a question. Certain
Stephan Stiller (2012-11-07 21:35):
HIGHEST RATING *
HIGHER RATING+
HIGH RATING
MID-HIGH RATING ***+
MEDIUM RATING***
MID-LOW RATING **+
LOW RATING **
LOWER RATING *+
LOWEST RATING*
NO RATING
This way font designers could choose
Jean-François Colson (2012-11-09 10:26):
Le 09/11/12 00:40, Philippe Verdy a écrit :
For this one, would it be a greyed star (meaning no info, N/A) or the
existing WHITE STAR for the minimum rating (the maximum rating being
the BLACK STAR) ?
Simply a black and white star.
I intended NO
Personal opinions follow.
It looks like the only actual use case we have, exemplified by the xkcd
strip, is for a star with the left half black and the right half white.
There *might* also be a case for the left-white, right-black star.
Everything else, including one-quarter and
Le 11/11/2012 23:08, Doug Ewell a écrit :
Personal opinions follow.
It looks like the only actual use case we have, exemplified by the
xkcd strip, is for a star with the left half black and the right half
white. There *might* also be a case for the left-white, right-black star.
What is
Frédéric Grosshans wrote:
There *might* also be a case for the left-white, right-black star.
What is missing in the attachment of Simon Montagu's email
http://www.unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-ml/y2012-m11/0024.html to
make it a convincing case for the left-white, right-black star ?
Sorry,
On 11/11/2012 2:08 PM, Doug Ewell wrote:
Personal opinions follow.
It looks like the only actual use case we have, exemplified by the
xkcd strip, is for a star with the left half black and the right half
white. There *might* also be a case for the left-white, right-black star.
Precedent is
On 11/11/2012 3:01 PM, Asmus Freytag wrote:
On 11/11/2012 2:08 PM, Doug Ewell wrote:
Personal opinions follow.
It looks like the only actual use case we have, exemplified by the
xkcd strip, is for a star with the left half black and the right half
white. There *might* also be a case for the
Den 2012-11-11 23:08, skrev Doug Ewell d...@ewellic.org:
Personal opinions follow.
It looks like the only actual use case we have, exemplified by the xkcd
strip, is for a star with the left half black and the right half white.
There *might* also be a case for the left-white, right-black
2012/11/12 Kent Karlsson kent.karlsso...@telia.com
rendering tomatoes or doughnuts or film reels as glyph variants of
stars,
They should certainly **NOT** be treated as glyph variants of stars! Ever!
Who said that ? NOT me.
If you think so, this is a misinterpretation in what I said that
On 11/11/2012 4:50 PM, Philippe Verdy wrote:
2012/11/12 Kent Karlsson kent.karlsso...@telia.com
mailto:kent.karlsso...@telia.com
rendering tomatoes or doughnuts or film reels as glyph variants of
stars,
They should certainly **NOT** be treated as glyph variants of
stars!
No, I was clear throughout, using the same arguments, that encoding things
for the purpose of representing empty, full, half filled like if it
was a nuemric gauge was a bad idea.
When I spoke about the various represetnations of gauges (including with
photos) it was just to demonstrate that this
On 11/11/2012 8:47 PM, Philippe Verdy wrote:
No, I was clear throughout, using the same arguments, that encoding
things for the purpose of representing empty, full, half filled
like if it was a nuemric gauge was a bad idea.
Trying to encode a gauge is indeed a losing proposition.
When I
2012/11/12 Asmus Freytag asm...@ix.netcom.com
However, the half-filled, five pointed stars are garden-variety type
symbols, and, as I keep pointing out, they absolutely fall within the scope
of geometrical symbols for which there is ample precedent supporting both
plain text usage as well as
On the opposite, there's a consistant definition of some abstract
characters that are still not encoded : the metal of medals in sports.
These are reliably defined and well known since long thoughout the world.
Why don't we have a GOLD MEDAL, SILVER MEDAL, and BRONZE MEDAL (some events
are adding
On 11/11/2012 9:26 PM, Philippe Verdy wrote:
2012/11/12 Asmus Freytag asm...@ix.netcom.com
mailto:asm...@ix.netcom.com
However, the half-filled, five pointed stars are garden-variety
type symbols, and, as I keep pointing out, they absolutely fall
within the scope of
On Thursday 8 November 2012, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr wrote:
2012/11/8 William_J_G Overington wjgo_10...@btinternet.com:
However, an encoding using a Private Use Area encoding has great problems
in being implemented as a widespread system.
Wrong, this is what has been made
Whilst using the PUA is far from perfect at the end of the day it is
better than the alternative of not using the PUA.
Regards
John
On 10 Nov 2012 17:37, William_J_G Overington wjgo_10...@btinternet.com
wrote:
On Thursday 8 November 2012, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr wrote:
2012/11/8
2012/11/10 john knightley john.knight...@gmail.com:
Whilst using the PUA is far from perfect at the end of the day it is
better than the alternative of not using the PUA.
Regards
John
On 10 Nov 2012 17:37, William_J_G Overington wjgo_10...@btinternet.com
wrote:
On Thursday 8 November
2012/11/10 Asmus Freytag asm...@ix.netcom.com:
Even today, using the existing Unicode for the WHITE STAR character
allows performing styling on it to render an empty, full, or partially
filled star.
There's clear precedent that Unicode views white/black/partially filled as a
distinction on
Le 09/11/12 00:40, Philippe Verdy a écrit :
2012/11/7 Jean-François Colson j...@colson.eu:
You missed
NEGLECTABLE RATING +
NO RATING
For this one, would it be a greyed star (meaning no info, N/A) or the
existing WHITE STAR for the minimum rating (the maximum rating being
the BLACK STAR)
Should the original NO RATING be split into two different items, such as ZERO
RATING and EMPTY RATING?
Then 0/10 would be ZERO RATING, expressed as five white stars and EMPTY RATING
could be expressed, if so desired, by something like five white circles, using
five uses of a character such as
On 11/9/2012 1:26 AM, Jean-François Colson wrote:
For a five level rating, ○ ◔ ◑ ◕ ● could do the job.
Yes it's possible to use other sets of symbols to indicate rating, but
when it comes to such use of symbols Unicode would not encode the
semantic of rating but that of star. The deeper
From:William_J_G Overington
wjgo_10...@btinternet.com
To: unicode@unicode.org
Cc: wjgo_10...@btinternet.com
Sent: Friday, 9 November 2012, 11:29
Subject: Re: Missing geometric shapes
Should the original NO RATING be split into two different items
Why then stars ? Any symbol, even any Unicode letter could be repeated
and half-filled. Even logos (I've seen Apple logos used this way) or
pictograms (I've seen film rolls for cinema rating, or trumpets for
rating music, or beds for rating hotels, or forks/spoons/knives for
rating restaurants, or
2012/11/9 Asmus Freytag asm...@ix.netcom.com:
Actually, there are certain instances where characters are encoded based on
expected usage.
Currency symbols are a well known case for that, but there have been
instances of phonetic characters encoded in order to facilitate creation and
On 11/9/2012 5:53 PM, Philippe Verdy wrote:
Why then stars ? Any symbol, even any Unicode letter could be repeated
and half-filled.
There's nothing magical about limiting the half-filled geometrical
shapes to the current (haphazard) set. If half-filled stars can be
documented, they are
On 11/9/2012 7:14 PM, Philippe Verdy wrote:
2012/11/9 Asmus Freytag asm...@ix.netcom.com:
Actually, there are certain instances where characters are encoded based on
expected usage. Currency symbols are a well known case for that, but there have
been instances of phonetic characters encoded
On 8 Nov 2012, at 03:10, Mark E. Shoulson m...@kli.org wrote:
We encode *characters*, glyphs that people use (yes, I know I conflated
glyphs and characters there.) There are many rating systems out there, yes,
but we also don't have to please everyone. I think half-stars see enough
2012/11/8 William_J_G Overington wjgo_10...@btinternet.com:
However, an encoding using a Private Use Area encoding has great problems in
being implemented as a widespread system.
Wrong, this is what has been made during centuries if not millenium !
Initially a private use definition, which was
On 8 Nov 2012, at 09:59, Simon Montagu smont...@smontagu.org wrote:
Please take into account that the half-stars should be symmetric-swapped in
RTL text. I attach an example from an advertisment for a movie published in
Haaretz 2 November 2012
I don't think Geometric Shapes have the mirror
don't think Geometric Shapes have the mirror property.
2605;BLACK STAR;So;0;ON;N;
2606;WHITE STAR;So;0;ON;N;
Well, those are usually symmetric, so adding a mirror property wouldn't
change much.
In a Hebrew context you'd just choose the star you wanted (black-white vs
white
Also the asymmetric geometric shapes dont have the mirror-property (it is restricted to parentheses and mathematical operators). Thats the reason why I have proposed two characters instead of only one. Adding the mirror property to the bicolor staronly would violate the minimum surprise principle
One key criteris for inclusion in Unicode is that a character or symbol be
in circulation. Whether these are hand written, printed or electronic. If
one creates a new a new character then one first must get others to use it,
this takes time.
John
On 8 Nov 2012 14:57, William_J_G Overington
Le 08/11/2012 09:47, Michael Everson a écrit :
I agree, and will write a proposal if anyone cares to send me examples of
in-print usage. (XKCD's handwritten chart kind of doesn't count…)
Except that the simple fact that a well known satirical comics like XKCD
includes these half-stars in this
I'm not sure I follow this analysis.
A./
On 11/8/2012 1:30 AM, Philippe Verdy wrote:
2012/11/8 William_J_G Overington wjgo_10...@btinternet.com:
However, an encoding using a Private Use Area encoding has great problems in
being implemented as a widespread system.
Wrong, this is what has
for a movie published in Haaretz 2 November 2012
I don't think Geometric Shapes have the mirror property.
2605;BLACK STAR;So;0;ON;N;
2606;WHITE STAR;So;0;ON;N;
Well, those are usually symmetric, so adding a mirror property
wouldn't change much.
In a Hebrew context you'd just choose
-swapped in RTL text. I attach an example from an
advertisment for a movie published in Haaretz 2 November 2012
I don't think Geometric Shapes have the mirror property.
2605;BLACK STAR;So;0;ON;N;
2606;WHITE STAR;So;0;ON;N;
The *chart* glyphs for these aren't same-sized (outer
On 8 Nov 2012, at 22:54, Kent Karlsson kent.karlsso...@telia.com wrote:
2605;BLACK STAR;So;0;ON;N;
2606;WHITE STAR;So;0;ON;N;
The *chart* glyphs for these aren't same-sized (outer outline)…
So?
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
2012/11/7 Jean-François Colson j...@colson.eu:
You missed
NEGLECTABLE RATING +
NO RATING
For this one, would it be a greyed star (meaning no info, N/A) or the
existing WHITE STAR for the minimum rating (the maximum rating being
the BLACK STAR) ?
Usually, we see the high ratings displayed
Den 2012-11-09 00:09, skrev Michael Everson ever...@evertype.com:
On 8 Nov 2012, at 22:54, Kent Karlsson kent.karlsso...@telia.com wrote:
2605;BLACK STAR;So;0;ON;N;
2606;WHITE STAR;So;0;ON;N;
The *chart* glyphs for these aren't same-sized (outer outline)
So?
It is
On 11/8/2012 3:40 PM, Philippe Verdy wrote:
Usually, we see the high ratings displayed as multiple stars, that are
either present or absent, but rarely half filled.
Half filled stars are relatively common, whenever there are fractional
star ratings possible.
Stars are among the most common
On 11/08/2012 01:48 AM, William_J_G Overington wrote:
Michael Everson ever...@evertype.com wrote:
... collect examples of these in print ...
Mark E. Shoulson m...@kli.org wrote:
We don't encode it would be nice/useful. We encode *characters*, glyphs that
people use (yes, I know I
On 11/08/2012 05:54 PM, Kent Karlsson wrote:
Well, define 3 (4?) brand new characters of g.c. Sm, and the half one(s)
(and quarter ones, if those are included too) have the bidi mirrored
property... There are plenty of g.c. Sm chars that are bidi mirrored.
(E.g. 27E2-27E3, ⟢ ⟣ , which are
Den 2012-11-09 01:22, skrev Asmus Freytag asm...@ix.netcom.com:
On 11/8/2012 3:40 PM, Philippe Verdy wrote:
Usually, we see the high ratings displayed as multiple stars, that are
either present or absent, but rarely half filled.
Half filled stars are relatively common, whenever there are
Mark E. Shoulson m...@kli.org wrote: Mirroring tends to be done for glyphs
that are used in *pairs*,
open/close things and such.
Not invariably; consider the integral and summation. They don't have mirrored
counterparts and many other mathematical symbols don't either.
Murray
Mirroring tends to be done for glyphs that are used in *pairs*,
open/close things and such.
Not invariably; consider the integral and summation. They don't have mirrored
counterparts and many other mathematical symbols don't either.
The summation and integral signs are not used in pairs,
On 11/8/2012 4:42 PM, Kent Karlsson wrote:
Den 2012-11-09 01:22, skrev Asmus Freytag asm...@ix.netcom.com:
On 11/8/2012 3:40 PM, Philippe Verdy wrote:
Usually, we see the high ratings displayed as multiple stars, that are
either present or absent, but rarely half filled.
Half filled stars
On 11/8/2012 4:53 PM, Murray Sargent wrote:
Mark E. Shoulson m...@kli.org wrote: Mirroring tends to be done for glyphs
that are used in *pairs*,
open/close things and such.
Not invariably; consider the integral and summation. They don't have mirrored
counterparts and many other mathematical
On 11/8/2012 4:39 PM, Mark E. Shoulson wrote:
On 11/08/2012 01:48 AM, William_J_G Overington wrote:
Michael Everson ever...@evertype.com wrote:
... collect examples of these in print ...
Mark E. Shoulson m...@kli.org wrote:
We don't encode it would be nice/useful. We encode *characters*,
On 11/08/2012 09:00 PM, Asmus Freytag wrote:
On 11/8/2012 4:39 PM, Mark E. Shoulson wrote:
I stand by it: we don't encode what would be cool to have. We encode
what people *use*.
Actually, there are certain instances where characters are encoded
based on expected usage.
...
What these
I have made a font with glyphs for the four stars.
The font is available from the following forum thread.
http://forum.high-logic.com/viewtopic.php?f=10t=4028
I found two of the desired stars in regular Unicode.
U+2605 BLACK STAR
U+2606 WHITE STAR
I added the other two glyphs into the plane 0
Jörg Knappen:
The reason is that I just was trying to show the rating on a webpage
using the popular of 1 to 5 starts including half-coloured starts just using
UNicode characters.
BLACK AND WHITE STAR
WHITE AND BLACK STAR
In Dingbats, characters are mostly coded for their appearance,
In Dingbats, characters are mostly coded for their appearance, i.e. like you
suggest. Would it be more useful to have some or all of the following, in a
more semantic block?
HIGHEST RATING *
HIGHER RATING+
HIGH RATING
MID-HIGH RATING ***+
MEDIUM RATING
In Dingbats, characters are mostly coded for their appearance, i.e. like
you suggest. Would it be more useful to have some or all of the following,
in a more semantic block?
HIGHEST RATING *
HIGHER RATING+
HIGH RATING
MID-HIGH RATING ***+
MEDIUM RATING
Le 07/11/12 20:08, Christoph Päper a écrit :
Jörg Knappen:
The reason is that I just was trying to show the rating on a webpage
using the popular of 1 to 5 starts including half-coloured starts
just using
UNicode characters.
BLACK AND WHITE STAR
WHITE AND BLACK STAR
In Dingbats, characters
On 11/07/2012 02:08 PM, Christoph Päper wrote:
Jörg Knappen:
The reason is that I just was trying to show the rating on a webpage
using the popular of 1 to 5 starts including half-coloured starts just using
UNicode characters.
BLACK AND WHITE STAR
WHITE AND BLACK STAR
In Dingbats, characters
On 11/7/2012 7:10 PM, Mark E. Shoulson wrote:
[Unicode is] a system for encoding what people write and print.
Hear, hear!
A./
On 2012-11-06 4:11 PM, Mark E. Shoulson wrote:
That said, I do think it would be reasonable and appropriate to encode
the half-stars. There's no such thing as plain text on paper
(everything in print is formatted somehow), but star ratings are
really common in tables that contain nothing else
Michael Everson ever...@evertype.com wrote:
... collect examples of these in print ...
Mark E. Shoulson m...@kli.org wrote:
We don't encode it would be nice/useful. We encode *characters*, glyphs
that people use (yes, I know I conflated glyphs and characters there.)
...
Unicode isn't a
two characters be added to the Geometric shapes block:BLACK AND WHITE STARWHITE AND BLACK STAR?For the purpose I have in mind, it is not really crucial whether the stars(five pointed, of course) are divided vertically or diagonally, I suggest verticaldivision as the standard representation.For
Some web sites also use finer distinctions, with 1/4 and 3/4 stars etc.
I suggest you use icons as usual.
markus
On 6 Nov 2012, at 19:27, Markus Scherer markus@gmail.com wrote:
Some web sites also use finer distinctions, with 1/4 and 3/4 stars etc.
Where have you seen those?
I suggest you use icons as usual.
I'd expect you to make such a suggestion, but I'd encourage Jörg to collect
examples of
On 11/06/2012 03:55 PM, Michael Everson wrote:
It would be convenient to be able to exchange such stars in plain text
Convenience isn't what we base these decisions on, as we often find
ourselves explaining to people with yet another Wouldn't It Be Nice If
proposal.
That said, I do think
Pim Blokland asked:
I've got a few questions about the use of geometric shapes, like
squares and such.
Some of these look very similar to one another, and I don't know
which ones to use in which circumstances!
Are their any guidelines on their use?
Just as an example, let's look
Michael Everson wrote as follows.
quote
Having said that, you could probably commission someone like me to provide
such a list.
end quote
I read that late last night and I realized that that had not occurred to me.
I had a long, quiet, late night think. Yes, I had been thinking that I
needed
Markus Scherer wrote as follows.
quote
It has been suggested many times to build a database (list, document, XML,
...) where each designated/assigned code point and each character gets its
story: Comments on the glyphs, from what codepage it was inherited, usage
comments and examples, alternate
At 08:08 AM 3/14/2003, William Overington wrote:
I find it strange that the
Unicode Standard does not codify the ligatures which can be produced with
the languages of the Indian subcontinent at display time using specific
sequences of regular Unicode characters so that someone skilled in the art
I've got a few questions about the use of geometric shapes, like
squares and such.
Some of these look very similar to one another, and I don't know
which ones to use in which circumstances!
Are their any guidelines on their use?
Just as an example, let's look at the squares. These come in four
I've got a few questions about the use of geometric shapes, like
squares and such.
Some of these look very similar to one another, and I don't know
which ones to use in which circumstances!
Are their any guidelines on their use?
Just as an example, let's look at the squares. These come
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 08:53
Subject: Re: geometric shapes
I've got a few questions about the use of geometric shapes, like
squares and such.
Some of these look very similar to one another, and I don't know
which ones to use in which circumstances
Frank da Cruz schreef
(e.g. VT220) or PC code page (e.g. CP437) can reveal such things.
I really was speaking about the geometric shape range (U+25A0
through U+25FF), not about the box drawing characters
(U+2500..U+257F) and block elements (U+2580..U+259F), which I do
understand better.
Your
do
understand better.
It's the same problem. The many and varied shapes in the Unicode
standard do not come with specs. Many of the boxes and other geometric
shapes are also terminal and/or code page glyphs. Some of them should
extend to the edges and/or corners of the cell (in a monospace
83 matches
Mail list logo
