Re: Pasting tabs into Excel

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

I got the same results as Matthias on 6, 7, and 9 (Mac Sierra)
On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 8:56 AM hh via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Possibly this is not LC but an Excel update that changed
> Excel's default delimiter from tab to comma.
> Does comma as delimiter work?
>
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Re: Pasting tabs into Excel

[dunbarx via use-livecode]

I have no access to Excel at the moment, but I cannot believe that the
default field delimiter could possibly have changed from tab. May just as
well change the record delimiter from return

 It would break just about everything.

Craig



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Re: Pasting tabs into Excel

[hh via use-livecode]

Possibly this is not LC but an Excel update that changed
Excel's default delimiter from tab to comma.
Does comma as delimiter work?

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RE: FormattedHeight of a field and its contents

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

David,

Nice I've been wrestling with this. I am going to see how your observations 
translate into mobile. I'm going to apply your of findings to my app and see if 
I get better results than I get now. There have been a few threads in the past 
few years addressing vertically centering text in a field. None of them seem to 
address all font size cases. This 6px thingy might explain a lot! 

Thanks again for all your work.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
David Epstein via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2018 9:38 PM
To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Cc: David Epstein
Subject: Re: FormattedHeight of a field and its contents

Thanks for the responses on this.  I used Bernd’s tool and did some more tests, 
and found some things that may be helpful to others.

While the left and right margins of a field are meant literally (a 5 pixel left 
margin leaves 5 white pixels to the left of the text), the top margin is more 
complicated, no doubt owing to the variety of textHeights that need to be 
accommodated.  For example, a margin of "0" will often clip the top of the 
text--as if "0" meant a "negative margin".

6 seems to be a magic default value for a field's top margin, which avoids 
clipping the content.  With horizontal gridlines visible, a 6 pixel buffer 
makes the top row the same height as the other rows.  And with a 6 pixel buffer 
the formattedHeight of the field will exactly match the formattedHeight of the 
field's content (although a non-zero borderwidth or a horizontal scrollbar 
changes this).

Thus--what I wondered about in my original post--with a margin less than 6 the 
formattedHeight of the field is less than the formattedHeight of the content; 
the content is in effect clipped.  At smaller textHeights this will be visible, 
while at larger textHeights only white space above the characters is clipped.

I was trying to answer two questions, and I think I'm pretty close.

1. How do I make sure that the field's contents are all visible if I set the 
field's height to the formattedHeight?  Answer: Set the top and bottom margins 
to 6. For the left and right margins, even 1 pixel should be enough to keep 
everything visible.

2. What margins will provide a symmetrical look for a text box?
A top margin of 6 doesn’t look like a 6 pixel margin; how it looks depends on 
the textHeight.  I estimate that its apparent height is one fourth of the 
effective textHeight, and I use this to size the other margins in the 
“tightMargins” handler below.
While the top margin of 6 looks good with horizontal gridlines, without them 
(and especially if you show a text baseline) it looks too small compared to the 
space between subsequent lines.  To match that larger space, in effect doubling 
the apparent top margin, add one third of the effective textHeight.  See 
“niceMargins” handler below.

Example of usage:
set the margins of fld 1 to the niceMargins of fld 1 set the height of fld 1 to 
the formattedHeight of fld 1

getProp niceMargins
   put the effective textHeight of the target into t
   put round(t*7/12) into m1
   put round(t/3) into m2
   return m1,6+m2,m1,m1
end niceMargins

getProp tightMargins
   put round(.25*the effective textHeight of the target) into m
   return m,6,m,max(6,m)
end tightMargins

Improvements to these are welcomed.

David Epstein


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Re: Pasting tabs into Excel

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

Like Mike, I found that the text to columns tool, using space as 
delimiter, will separate the entry into columns. That seems to imply that 
somewhere the tabs are changed to spaces. Also, pasting into a text editor 
does show the tabs, and copying from there preserves them when pasting into 
Excel, and they act normally and span columns.


I also tried fullclipboardData and rawclipboardData with no luck. There 
seems to be something different about in LC's implementation. I found two 
bugs that might be related:


http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19206
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20336

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



On February 3, 2018 10:42:02 AM dunbarx via use-livecode 
 wrote:



I have no access to Excel at the moment, but I cannot believe that the
default field delimiter could possibly have changed from tab. May just as
well change the record delimiter from return

 It would break just about everything.

Craig



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Re: any tricks to make SHELL non blocking?

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 02/03/2018 02:31 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

If everyone would just get over themselves and start using Linux we 
could all enjoy named pipes. :)


After working on our kitchen plumbing for the last few days, I've got a 
few choice names for pipes.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Pasting tabs into Excel

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

I don’t think it changed. But Excel currently supports tab and return
characters within cells. If you paste text with tabs/returns into the
formula bar area it will all go into that cell.  I'm using Excel 16.9
(180116)

Try this function (LC 8/9):

*on* stripClipboard
   *local* tData
   *lock* the clipboard
   *put* the rawClipboardData["public.utf8-plain-text"] into tData
   *set* the rawClipboardData to empty
   *set* the rawClipboardData["public.utf8-plain-text"] to tData
   *unlock* the clipboard
*end* stripClipboard

This will ensure the only thing on the clipboard is the text format (no RTF
and no HTML).  Even when I use this function after putting the text on the
clipboard, I get the same results.  And I get the same in LC 6 & 7 too.

You mentioned raw clipboard, what did you try there?

Oddly, when I use the text to columns tool, it recognizes the tabs (when I
pasted the text into a single cell).


More info on those 2 bugs:

The first bug is about LC placing too much on the system clipboard.  Prior
to 8, LC only put text+RTF on the clipboard.  With 8, HTML was added - LC
ran everything through its internal conversion to LC styled text and put LC
HTMLtext on the system clipboard as HTML.  The bug fix on the first on
stops that conversion so that when plain text is placed on the clipboard,
only plain text is put on the system clipboard (and it no longer puts
anything styled).

The second bug is tightly related.  It is actually the same process that is
causing the problem, but the solution will be slightly different.  There
isn't a PR on this one yet.  It would be easy to disable LC HTMLtext going
to the clipboard unless specifically requested (which would be more like
pre LC-8), but fixing the actual HTMLtext is a little more complicated.
I've written some LCS code that can convert HTMLtext into a format that
works (mostly) with copy/paste to other apps, but have not figured out how
to put that into the message path to work seamlessly (would need to be
called from the engine copy code).  Ideally, something like:
set the fullclipboarddata["htmltext"] to the htmltext of field "test"
would put something on the clipboard that would not render with all of the
extra lines and missing spaces when pasted to other apps.

Thanks,
Brian
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Re: Anyone using a third-party update tool for LC-originated desktop apps?

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

Just reporting in, having had a closer look, I see that what Trevor has done is 
frankly beyond me. There seems too much to learn, starting with GitHub, and the 
number of days I could dedicate to the task in the near future is quite 
limited. 

For that reason I’m tempted to try to grow my own, using just LC scripting: of 
course this may not work. I absolutely agree with Trevor’s policy of replacing 
the entire application (although IMO the user should be offered preservation of 
any data kept in the application support area on either platform). 

However, this is tricky, since one would want to invoke a standard installer 
without the user having to take any of the classic actions (e.g. on the Mac, 
moving the app icon the Applications folder, which is what DMG installers 
propose). 

I suppose the ultimate simplification is to detect that an update is available 
(easy, via a little file on a server) and then tell the user how to delete the 
old version and install the new one ‘by hand’, so to speak. Sounds terrible, 
but it may be the only possible economic method for me. Or am I being 
particularly stupid?

I have still not fully explored third-party solutions, but they would have to 
avoid coding - well, certainly in any language other then classic LC - to work 
for me.

Anyone else got any thoughts on this?

Graham

> On 22 Jan 2018, at 15:06, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 5:04 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Nowadays it’s customary for quite modest apps after launching to notify
>> the user of an update being available, with the possibility of carrying out
>> the update there and then, or refusing. A succession of dialog boxes guides
>> the user through the updating process and shows progress. The update
>> somehow bypasses the normal installation process, accepts existing license
>> data, and simply replaces the app. If the app has a document open, then the
>> new copy of the app re-opens it.
> 
> 
> Graham,
> 
> There are a lot of different approaches to this in the community. Here is
> my take on it. Currently I'm using the code in the following repository for
> automated updates. It is a Helper that I use with the Levure framework and
> I haven't documented it at all.
> 
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-app_updater
> 
> It is a combination of Sparkle for macOS (Monte wrapped this up in an
> external for me) and LCS for Windows that I've been using over the years.
> Both macOS and Windows download an entirely new application. On macOS the
> app is zipped up and Sparkle downloads the zip archive, unzips it, and
> installs it. If the update requires authentication that is handled. On
> Windows the updater just downloads the Windows installer executable that is
> used for installing the app for the first time. This is an installer built
> using Inno Setup which will prompt the user for administrative permissions
> if need be.
> 
> I prefer to replace the entire application when I do updates. My apps are
> installed in a number of different environments. I would often get reports
> of problems when trying to update the app in pieces inside of corporations.
> Plus if you don't update the exe on Windows then the version number of your
> app won't be reported properly in the File Properties dialog. When I
> switched to downloading and running a full installer on Windows the reports
> of issues after running the updater dropped to 0.
> 
> In my ideal world the Windows side would use WinSparkle as it would be nice
> to leverage the work of a 3rd party. I like using code that is being tested
> by a lot of other people and which is entirely focused on automatic
> updates. I didn't want to create an external around it, however, so I've
> been waiting for the LCB to DLL interface in the engine to mature. I
> imagine WinSparkle could probably be wrapped using LCB now.
> 
> https://winsparkle.org
> 
> I would like to see the LC community have a standard automatic update
> solution available that is easy to use and is very reliable in all
> environments. To me it makes the most sense to leverage the work done by
> others who are focused on automatic update.
> 
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
> www.screensteps.com
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Re: Navigator update: better conversion to behaviors, better property editing, better version control, and send to private commands

[Geoff Canyon via use-livecode]

The update is now available here
. I haven't
updated the documentation yet. The main changes are:

1. The whole convert-to-behaviors and restore-from-behaviors bit has been
moved to its own custom palette, opened from Navigator. This makes the
whole process much clearer, and setting the options is easier and more
forgiving.
2. There's a preview for the naming template process -- again, easier and
more foolproof, and a dropdown offers some pre-made options.
3. The dialog's working list is derived from the selection in Navigator
when the command is issued, but it's text -- anything can be modified,
deleted, or added before processing.
4. There is a button to add enclosed objects. So it's possible to select a
group, card, or stack in Navigator, select the command, and then add
enclosed objects to include all the controls in that container -- or
containers, it processes everything in the list.
5. There is a button to add behavior chains, so it's possible to select one
control that has a chain of fifty behaviors, and click the button to add
them all to the list to be processed.
6. Both Convert and Restore have a preview option -- use it and the
resulting log will show exactly what will be done, without actually doing
any of it.

gc
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Re: Pasting tabs into Excel

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Brian Milby wrote:

> More info on those 2 bugs:
>
> The first bug is about LC placing too much on the system clipboard.
>  Prior to 8, LC only put text+RTF on the clipboard.  With 8, HTML was
> added - LC ran everything through its internal conversion to LC styled
> text and put LC HTMLtext on the system clipboard as HTML.  The bug fix
> on the first on stops that conversion so that when plain text is
> placed on the clipboard, only plain text is put on the system
> clipboard (and it no longer puts anything styled).
>
> The second bug is tightly related.  It is actually the same process
> that is causing the problem, but the solution will be slightly
> different.  There isn't a PR on this one yet.  It would be easy to
> disable LC HTMLtext going to the clipboard unless specifically
> requested (which would be more like pre LC-8), but fixing the actual
> HTMLtext is a little more complicated.

I think I missed something earlier in this thread:  what are those two 
bug report IDs?


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Pasting tabs into Excel

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19206
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20336
On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 4:28 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Brian Milby wrote:
>
>  > More info on those 2 bugs:
>  >
>  > The first bug is about LC placing too much on the system clipboard.
>  >  Prior to 8, LC only put text+RTF on the clipboard.  With 8, HTML was
>  > added - LC ran everything through its internal conversion to LC styled
>  > text and put LC HTMLtext on the system clipboard as HTML.  The bug fix
>  > on the first on stops that conversion so that when plain text is
>  > placed on the clipboard, only plain text is put on the system
>  > clipboard (and it no longer puts anything styled).
>  >
>  > The second bug is tightly related.  It is actually the same process
>  > that is causing the problem, but the solution will be slightly
>  > different.  There isn't a PR on this one yet.  It would be easy to
>  > disable LC HTMLtext going to the clipboard unless specifically
>  > requested (which would be more like pre LC-8), but fixing the actual
>  > HTMLtext is a little more complicated.
>
> I think I missed something earlier in this thread:  what are those two
> bug report IDs?
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   
>   ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
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Re: any tricks to make SHELL non blocking?

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Paul Dupuis wrote:

> FYI we found that interapp communication via sockets is more reliable
> cross-platform that via interprocess communication, but at some real
> world customer sites, security setting can prohibit socket
> communication even to the same computer where as IPC still works, so
> an app that need to be really really robust for real world installs
> may wish to include code for both and swap from one to the other if
> one means of communication fails.

If everyone would just get over themselves and start using Linux we 
could all enjoy named pipes. :)


But seriously, do you have a list of circumstances that prevent sockets 
on loopback?


Personally, I'm inclined to consider it a bug if any software prevents 
IPC via loopback sockets, but there may be a good reason worth learning. 
 And even if the reasoning turns out not to be good, it's useful to 
know about limitations imposed on otherwise-reliable mechanisms.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: any tricks to make SHELL non blocking?

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

The Husband loves plumbing, it gives him the inspiration to learn all kinds 
of new colorful words. He puts it off as long as possible to savor the 
anticipation.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



On February 3, 2018 5:35:00 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
 wrote:



On 02/03/2018 02:31 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:


If everyone would just get over themselves and start using Linux we
could all enjoy named pipes. :)


After working on our kitchen plumbing for the last few days, I've got a
few choice names for pipes.

--
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Pasting tabs into Excel

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 2/3/18 12:23 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:

Try this function (LC 8/9):

*on*  stripClipboard
*local*  tData
*lock*  the clipboard
*put*  the rawClipboardData["public.utf8-plain-text"] into tData
*set*  the rawClipboardData to empty
*set*  the rawClipboardData["public.utf8-plain-text"] to tData
*unlock*  the clipboard
*end*  stripClipboard

This will ensure the only thing on the clipboard is the text format (no RTF
and no HTML).  Even when I use this function after putting the text on the
clipboard, I get the same results.  And I get the same in LC 6 & 7 too.

You mentioned raw clipboard, what did you try there?


Your handler works. :) I haven't used rawClipboardData much and I don't 
have that particular experiment any more, but I think I just used the 
example verbatim from the dictionary.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Pasting tabs into Excel

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 2/3/18 1:52 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote:

But what i noticed is the following:
When i just click on a cell, so that it is selected without showing the 
blinking write cursor in the cell, then pasting is working w/o problems.

When i double click a cell, so that it is selected and the blinking write 
cursor is shown, then i cannot paste it correctly.


Interesting. I don't have Excel so I've been testing in Google Sheets. 
This trick doesn't work there. :(


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Pasting tabs into Excel

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

PR 6293 should correct this issue (19206). When plain text is copied to the
clipboard, styled text will not be added.
On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 4:32 PM Brian Milby  wrote:

> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19206
> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20336
> On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 4:28 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Brian Milby wrote:
>>
>>  > More info on those 2 bugs:
>>  >
>>  > The first bug is about LC placing too much on the system clipboard.
>>  >  Prior to 8, LC only put text+RTF on the clipboard.  With 8, HTML was
>>  > added - LC ran everything through its internal conversion to LC styled
>>  > text and put LC HTMLtext on the system clipboard as HTML.  The bug fix
>>  > on the first on stops that conversion so that when plain text is
>>  > placed on the clipboard, only plain text is put on the system
>>  > clipboard (and it no longer puts anything styled).
>>  >
>>  > The second bug is tightly related.  It is actually the same process
>>  > that is causing the problem, but the solution will be slightly
>>  > different.  There isn't a PR on this one yet.  It would be easy to
>>  > disable LC HTMLtext going to the clipboard unless specifically
>>  > requested (which would be more like pre LC-8), but fixing the actual
>>  > HTMLtext is a little more complicated.
>>
>> I think I missed something earlier in this thread:  what are those two
>> bug report IDs?
>>
>> --
>>   Richard Gaskin
>>   Fourth World Systems
>>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>>   
>>   ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>>
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