Re: Guessing game

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

cREVGeneral is an example of where recursion would be a problem.  In the
common library there are getProp and setProp handlers that depend on lock
messages.  The handlers intercept the message and in some cases need to
lock messages to get the system property before continuing (so a pass would
not work).

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 5:19 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Yes, for the purposes it was designed for (stopping the triggering of
> system messages) the "lock messages" command is very useful.
>
> The problem with getProp and setProp is that those triggers occur in
> response to *custom* properties, not system properties.
>
> As originally implemented (and as remains since) if you use libraries or
> other components which may lock messages, the effects on getProp and
> setProp can be unknowable in advance, and difficult to pin down when
> issues occur from scripts that depend on those messages but sometimes
> they're not sent.
>
> Mark Waddingham reviewed this a while back and offered the view that
> custom property triggers should follow the convention of custom handlers
> being immune to "lock messages".
>
> But there's apparently a challenge there with avoiding recursion which
> makes it unlikely getProp and setProp will be revised any time soon to
> be immune to lockMessages.
>
> If you work in teams sufficiently disciplined and communicative that any
> use of "lock messages" is well accounted for with regard to property
> triggers, and restrict use of any third-party components to those with
> open code that's been carefully scanned for "lock messages" and
> "lockMessages", I suppose this anomaly isn't much of an issue.
>
> It wasn't for me:  I got bit only once, moved back to getter/setter
> accessors, and moved on; problem solved. :)
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>
>
> David Bovill wrote:
> > Yes - thanks for pointing that out. So far I've found the behaviour of
> > lockmessages to be actually useful rather than an issue with
> > getprop/setprop - seems well designed to me.
> >
> > The place where the syntax really shines is with functions calls rather
> > than commands - dispatch is quite natural for that. Say you want the
> model
> > data of a stack "My Project" - the syntax:
> >
> > put the project_Data of stack "My Project" into pData
> >
> >
> > is much more elegant and comprehensible than any way to call a function.
> > this is also nice:
> >
> > put the project_Data ["pretty colour"] of stack "My Project" into
> >> defaultColour
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3 April 2018 at 18:05, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> David Bovill wrote:
> >>
> >> > The use-case I had was to replace send syntax with the more elegant
> >> > set the ... of object to syntax.
> >>
> >> While the getProp and setProp handlers would seem to lend themselves to
> a
> >> lot of useful object binding opportunities, they require caution:
> they're
> >> treated by the engine as system messages, and as such are not immune to
> the
> >> effects of lockMessages the way custom handlers are.
> >>
> >> Systems depending on getProp and setProp will need to monitor
> lockMessages
> >> carefully to insure critical triggers are received as expected.
> >>
> >> Using getter and setter accessor handlers avoids that concern, with a
> >> stylistic difference that isn't much more verbose:
> >>
> >>   set the BeautifulColor of cd 1 to "light-grey"
> >>
> >> -vs-
> >>
> >>   dispatch SetBeautifulColor to cd 1 with "light-grey"
> >>
> >> It doesn't read as nicely, but given that the trade-off can be
> >> unpredictability I'll take what I can get. :)
> >>
> >> And depending on usage context, in many cases the UI event that
> initiates
> >> a calling chain may be on the card in question, not requiring
> >> out-of-message-path dispatching, making the call simpler than a property
> >> setting:
> >>
> >>SetBeautifulColor "light-grey"
> >>
> >> For virtual objects like models, accessors can simplify things by not
> >> requiring that they be bound to a physical object which need not
> otherwise
> >> exist.  The name-value-pair programming we enjoy with custom props
> applies
> >> equally well with any array.  But with arrays we can have deeper levels,
> >> and are more easily savable/transportable than an object bound to a
> stack
> >> file.
> >>
> >> --
> >>  Richard Gaskin
> >>  Fourth World Systems
> >>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> >>  
> >>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com
> http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
> ___
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: [OT, maybe] - configuring a Windows Installer for a Standalone

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 4:21 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> I’ve got a standalone which is cross-platform and works well on Mac and
> PC. Unfortunately I’m having a lot of trouble with making a viable Windows
> Installer, using the Inno system. All goes well with the installation
> process until the user checks “launch” for the app at the end of the
> installation process. He/she then gets and error message (this is on both
> Windows 7 and Windows 10):
>
> > C:/Program Files\Myprogram\Myprogram.exe
> >
> > CreateProcess failed: code 740
> > The requested operation requires elevation
>

Have you tried adding the following configuration option to your .iss file?

PrivilegesRequired=admin

If not then give it a try.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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Re: Guessing game

[David Bovill via use-livecode]

I guess I see your perspective. For me it’s totally the right and natural
thing.

It’s automatically reset at the end if the handler. Personally I’d go the
other way and say that if the lock messages were set command calls trapped
by anything above in the hierarchy should also not get executed.

I mean if you lock messages you lock the messages right :)

On Thu, 5 Apr 2018 at 22:19, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Yes, for the purposes it was designed for (stopping the triggering of
> system messages) the "lock messages" command is very useful.
>
> The problem with getProp and setProp is that those triggers occur in
> response to *custom* properties, not system properties.
>
> As originally implemented (and as remains since) if you use libraries or
> other components which may lock messages, the effects on getProp and
> setProp can be unknowable in advance, and difficult to pin down when
> issues occur from scripts that depend on those messages but sometimes
> they're not sent.
>
> Mark Waddingham reviewed this a while back and offered the view that
> custom property triggers should follow the convention of custom handlers
> being immune to "lock messages".
>
> But there's apparently a challenge there with avoiding recursion which
> makes it unlikely getProp and setProp will be revised any time soon to
> be immune to lockMessages.
>
> If you work in teams sufficiently disciplined and communicative that any
> use of "lock messages" is well accounted for with regard to property
> triggers, and restrict use of any third-party components to those with
> open code that's been carefully scanned for "lock messages" and
> "lockMessages", I suppose this anomaly isn't much of an issue.
>
> It wasn't for me:  I got bit only once, moved back to getter/setter
> accessors, and moved on; problem solved. :)
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>
>
> David Bovill wrote:
> > Yes - thanks for pointing that out. So far I've found the behaviour of
> > lockmessages to be actually useful rather than an issue with
> > getprop/setprop - seems well designed to me.
> >
> > The place where the syntax really shines is with functions calls rather
> > than commands - dispatch is quite natural for that. Say you want the
> model
> > data of a stack "My Project" - the syntax:
> >
> > put the project_Data of stack "My Project" into pData
> >
> >
> > is much more elegant and comprehensible than any way to call a function.
> > this is also nice:
> >
> > put the project_Data ["pretty colour"] of stack "My Project" into
> >> defaultColour
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3 April 2018 at 18:05, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> David Bovill wrote:
> >>
> >> > The use-case I had was to replace send syntax with the more elegant
> >> > set the ... of object to syntax.
> >>
> >> While the getProp and setProp handlers would seem to lend themselves to
> a
> >> lot of useful object binding opportunities, they require caution:
> they're
> >> treated by the engine as system messages, and as such are not immune to
> the
> >> effects of lockMessages the way custom handlers are.
> >>
> >> Systems depending on getProp and setProp will need to monitor
> lockMessages
> >> carefully to insure critical triggers are received as expected.
> >>
> >> Using getter and setter accessor handlers avoids that concern, with a
> >> stylistic difference that isn't much more verbose:
> >>
> >>   set the BeautifulColor of cd 1 to "light-grey"
> >>
> >> -vs-
> >>
> >>   dispatch SetBeautifulColor to cd 1 with "light-grey"
> >>
> >> It doesn't read as nicely, but given that the trade-off can be
> >> unpredictability I'll take what I can get. :)
> >>
> >> And depending on usage context, in many cases the UI event that
> initiates
> >> a calling chain may be on the card in question, not requiring
> >> out-of-message-path dispatching, making the call simpler than a property
> >> setting:
> >>
> >>SetBeautifulColor "light-grey"
> >>
> >> For virtual objects like models, accessors can simplify things by not
> >> requiring that they be bound to a physical object which need not
> otherwise
> >> exist.  The name-value-pair programming we enjoy with custom props
> applies
> >> equally well with any array.  But with arrays we can have deeper levels,
> >> and are more easily savable/transportable than an object bound to a
> stack
> >> file.
> >>
> >> --
> >>  Richard Gaskin
> >>  Fourth World Systems
> >>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> >>  
> >>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com
> http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

Re: Guessing game

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Yes, for the purposes it was designed for (stopping the triggering of 
system messages) the "lock messages" command is very useful.


The problem with getProp and setProp is that those triggers occur in 
response to *custom* properties, not system properties.


As originally implemented (and as remains since) if you use libraries or 
other components which may lock messages, the effects on getProp and 
setProp can be unknowable in advance, and difficult to pin down when 
issues occur from scripts that depend on those messages but sometimes 
they're not sent.


Mark Waddingham reviewed this a while back and offered the view that 
custom property triggers should follow the convention of custom handlers 
being immune to "lock messages".


But there's apparently a challenge there with avoiding recursion which 
makes it unlikely getProp and setProp will be revised any time soon to 
be immune to lockMessages.


If you work in teams sufficiently disciplined and communicative that any 
use of "lock messages" is well accounted for with regard to property 
triggers, and restrict use of any third-party components to those with 
open code that's been carefully scanned for "lock messages" and 
"lockMessages", I suppose this anomaly isn't much of an issue.


It wasn't for me:  I got bit only once, moved back to getter/setter 
accessors, and moved on; problem solved. :)


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems


David Bovill wrote:

Yes - thanks for pointing that out. So far I've found the behaviour of
lockmessages to be actually useful rather than an issue with
getprop/setprop - seems well designed to me.

The place where the syntax really shines is with functions calls rather
than commands - dispatch is quite natural for that. Say you want the model
data of a stack "My Project" - the syntax:

put the project_Data of stack "My Project" into pData


is much more elegant and comprehensible than any way to call a function.
this is also nice:

put the project_Data ["pretty colour"] of stack "My Project" into

defaultColour




On 3 April 2018 at 18:05, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:


David Bovill wrote:

> The use-case I had was to replace send syntax with the more elegant
> set the ... of object to syntax.

While the getProp and setProp handlers would seem to lend themselves to a
lot of useful object binding opportunities, they require caution: they're
treated by the engine as system messages, and as such are not immune to the
effects of lockMessages the way custom handlers are.

Systems depending on getProp and setProp will need to monitor lockMessages
carefully to insure critical triggers are received as expected.

Using getter and setter accessor handlers avoids that concern, with a
stylistic difference that isn't much more verbose:

  set the BeautifulColor of cd 1 to "light-grey"

-vs-

  dispatch SetBeautifulColor to cd 1 with "light-grey"

It doesn't read as nicely, but given that the trade-off can be
unpredictability I'll take what I can get. :)

And depending on usage context, in many cases the UI event that initiates
a calling chain may be on the card in question, not requiring
out-of-message-path dispatching, making the call simpler than a property
setting:

   SetBeautifulColor "light-grey"

For virtual objects like models, accessors can simplify things by not
requiring that they be bound to a physical object which need not otherwise
exist.  The name-value-pair programming we enjoy with custom props applies
equally well with any array.  But with arrays we can have deeper levels,
and are more easily savable/transportable than an object bound to a stack
file.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 Ambassador at FourthWorld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com



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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Over 'here' in "naughty" Bulgaria where I have the cheapest internet 
package available
I found that LC 9.0 for Linux took 3 minutes to download . . . and that 
was absolutely fine.


Ookla says that my download rate is 10.78 Mbps and my upload rate is 
6.28 Mbps,

which is super because I don't understand what those magic numbers mean.

Richmond.

On 5/4/2018 7:09 pm, Mark Talluto via use-livecode wrote:

It is true that you paid for a 190Mbit connection. Not all servers will be able 
to saturate that size of a pipe. The amount a service can pump out will be 
based on many factors like level of network activity at that moment, health of 
the hops between you and the server, general network traffic load at the time, 
….

Most ISPs sell faster connections so that more people can consume more at the 
same time on your end of the network. Thus, you could have probably downloaded 
3 LiveCode installers at the same time with 40Mbit speeds.

Best regards,

Mark Talluto
livecloud.io 
nursenotes.net 
canelasoftware.com 



On Apr 5, 2018, at 8:09 AM, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Hi

I downloaded it in about 2 minutes - at 40MBits/s download .

Which prompted me to check the speed. When I upgraded and paid extra it
was  190MBits/s,  so they are cheating me - need to find time to phone the
~@"£$  up and listen to some Chamber Musaq

Lagi

On 3 April 2018 at 14:01, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


Dear list members,

LiveCode 9.0.0 is out, read all about it here:

https://us7.campaign-archive.com/?u=8404b344b09103bf489dd8a9
a=c574bcb9b3

Have fun!
The LiveCode Team
--
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Re: commandine standalone using 100% of core on doing what?

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

great news for me thank you.  on top of that I can run 1 of these
services on each core listening to a different port.

thanks for the links to the benchmarks.

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 3:12 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Tom Glod wrote:
>
> > What are the chances I will get similar performance using a stack and
> > httpd to process http requests . as i would using lc server ..
> > if the performance is similar, i feel more confident building using
> > this form . i'm not producing HTML code . just passing
> > encrypted arrays back and forth . as well as sending & receiving
> > small small files.
> >
> > that way i don't have to even run apache . just nginx and the
> > services
>
> Quite good, I'd say:
>
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-March/225068.html
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-March/225081.html
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-March/225141.html
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-March/225147.html
>
> Replacing Apache with NginX will boost performance in many areas, and
> hooking in any persistent process behind it will always beat a CGI, such as
> LiveCode Server, which launches, runs, and dies with each request.
>
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  
>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> ___
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: commandine standalone using 100% of core on doing what?

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Tom Glod wrote:

> What are the chances I will get similar performance using a stack and
> httpd to process http requests . as i would using lc server ..
> if the performance is similar, i feel more confident building using
> this form . i'm not producing HTML code . just passing
> encrypted arrays back and forth . as well as sending & receiving
> small small files.
>
> that way i don't have to even run apache . just nginx and the
> services

Quite good, I'd say:

http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-March/225068.html
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-March/225081.html
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-March/225141.html
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-March/225147.html

Replacing Apache with NginX will boost performance in many areas, and 
hooking in any persistent process behind it will always beat a CGI, such 
as LiveCode Server, which launches, runs, and dies with each request.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: commandine standalone using 100% of core on doing what?

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Mark Wieder wrote:

> On 04/05/2018 08:46 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> You may try running the standalone with strace to see the system
>> calls it's making:
>>
>>strace ./mystandalone
>
> I don't think strace is on Windows. I'd recommend Process Lasso for
> seeing what's going on.
> https://bitsum.com/
>
> But if you need deep system tracing, you probably want Dr. Memory.
>
> http://drmemory.org/docs/page_drstrace.html
> http://drmemory.org/


How do people get a day's work done with taking advantage of the Ubuntu 
shell Microsoft now provides for Win10 users?


:)

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: commandine standalone using 100% of core on doing what?

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

What are the chances I will get similar performance using a stack and httpd
to process http requests . as i would using lc server .. if the
performance is similar, i feel more confident building using this form
. i'm not producing HTML code . just passing encrypted arrays back
and forth . as well as sending & receiving small small files.

that way i don't have to even run apache . just nginx and the services,

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 1:43 PM, Tom Glod  wrote:

> it was my goal to benchmark httpd ..but didn't get that far since it maxed
> out the cpu and didn't let up...then i took out httpd..still did
> that...and thats how i got to testing an entirely blank new stack.
>
> must be a windows thing.  i will be running it on digital ocean
> ubuntu...so i',m not that concerned about a windows problem...but i would
> still like to get to the bottom of itwill have to look into the tracing
> tools. haven't had time today.
>
> On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 1:27 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Tom Glod wrote:
>>
>> > hi richard... the standalone opens fine when i don't use the -UI
>> > parameter. it opens up the blank stack and does nothingas its
>> > supposed to since there is no code anywhere doing anything. no library
>> > was modified...or even used.
>>
>> If you're not using any libraries how is the httpd invoked?
>>
>>
>> > its a blank stack.
>> >
>> > the -ui flag puts it into the loop.  I guess I don't have to use it.
>>
>> Depends what you're doing. If this will be a server it can be helpful to
>> save CPU and RAM by not loading UI stuff that'll never be used.
>>
>> Well crafted server OSes don't even have a GUI at all, so on those not
>> running a standalone without -ui will likely trigger an error as it looks
>> for graphics libs not present.
>>
>>
>> > but still wondering what its doing.
>>
>> I just build a standalone here in v9 under Ubuntu 14.04 and ran with -ui;
>> not even enough CPU consumption to show up in top.
>>
>> strace showed the usual things (more than half of it loading fonts that
>> are almost never used in faceless apps and CGIs), but there was one oddity
>> I don't recall seeing before, toward the very end:
>>
>> ...
>> lstat64("/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk-i386/bin/javac",
>> {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=38604, ...}) = 0
>> stat64("/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk-i386/bin/javac",
>> {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=38604, ...}) = 0
>> lstat64("/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk-i386", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755,
>> st_size=4096, ...}) = 0
>> lstat64("/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk-i386", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755,
>> st_size=4096, ...}) = 0
>> stat64("/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk-i386", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755,
>> st_size=4096, ...}) = 0
>> gettimeofday({1522948176, 179743}, {420, 0}) = 0
>> ...
>>
>> Why would a standalone bother trying to stat JVM?
>>
>> I don't think that's related to your CPU issue, but odd just the same.
>>
>>
>> --
>>  Richard Gaskin
>>  Fourth World Systems
>>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>>  
>>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>>
>> ___
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>
>
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Re: commandine standalone using 100% of core on doing what?

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

it was my goal to benchmark httpd ..but didn't get that far since it maxed
out the cpu and didn't let up...then i took out httpd..still did
that...and thats how i got to testing an entirely blank new stack.

must be a windows thing.  i will be running it on digital ocean
ubuntu...so i',m not that concerned about a windows problem...but i would
still like to get to the bottom of itwill have to look into the tracing
tools. haven't had time today.

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 1:27 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Tom Glod wrote:
>
> > hi richard... the standalone opens fine when i don't use the -UI
> > parameter. it opens up the blank stack and does nothingas its
> > supposed to since there is no code anywhere doing anything. no library
> > was modified...or even used.
>
> If you're not using any libraries how is the httpd invoked?
>
>
> > its a blank stack.
> >
> > the -ui flag puts it into the loop.  I guess I don't have to use it.
>
> Depends what you're doing. If this will be a server it can be helpful to
> save CPU and RAM by not loading UI stuff that'll never be used.
>
> Well crafted server OSes don't even have a GUI at all, so on those not
> running a standalone without -ui will likely trigger an error as it looks
> for graphics libs not present.
>
>
> > but still wondering what its doing.
>
> I just build a standalone here in v9 under Ubuntu 14.04 and ran with -ui;
> not even enough CPU consumption to show up in top.
>
> strace showed the usual things (more than half of it loading fonts that
> are almost never used in faceless apps and CGIs), but there was one oddity
> I don't recall seeing before, toward the very end:
>
> ...
> lstat64("/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk-i386/bin/javac",
> {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=38604, ...}) = 0
> stat64("/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk-i386/bin/javac",
> {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=38604, ...}) = 0
> lstat64("/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk-i386", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755,
> st_size=4096, ...}) = 0
> lstat64("/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk-i386", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755,
> st_size=4096, ...}) = 0
> stat64("/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk-i386", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755,
> st_size=4096, ...}) = 0
> gettimeofday({1522948176, 179743}, {420, 0}) = 0
> ...
>
> Why would a standalone bother trying to stat JVM?
>
> I don't think that's related to your CPU issue, but odd just the same.
>
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  
>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
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Re: commandine standalone using 100% of core on doing what?

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Tom Glod wrote:

> hi richard... the standalone opens fine when i don't use the -UI
> parameter. it opens up the blank stack and does nothingas its
> supposed to since there is no code anywhere doing anything. no library
> was modified...or even used.

If you're not using any libraries how is the httpd invoked?


> its a blank stack.
>
> the -ui flag puts it into the loop.  I guess I don't have to use it.

Depends what you're doing. If this will be a server it can be helpful to 
save CPU and RAM by not loading UI stuff that'll never be used.


Well crafted server OSes don't even have a GUI at all, so on those not 
running a standalone without -ui will likely trigger an error as it 
looks for graphics libs not present.



> but still wondering what its doing.

I just build a standalone here in v9 under Ubuntu 14.04 and ran with 
-ui; not even enough CPU consumption to show up in top.


strace showed the usual things (more than half of it loading fonts that 
are almost never used in faceless apps and CGIs), but there was one 
oddity I don't recall seeing before, toward the very end:


...
lstat64("/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk-i386/bin/javac", 
{st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=38604, ...}) = 0
stat64("/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk-i386/bin/javac", 
{st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=38604, ...}) = 0
lstat64("/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk-i386", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, 
st_size=4096, ...}) = 0
lstat64("/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk-i386", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, 
st_size=4096, ...}) = 0
stat64("/usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk-i386", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, 
st_size=4096, ...}) = 0

gettimeofday({1522948176, 179743}, {420, 0}) = 0
...

Why would a standalone bother trying to stat JVM?

I don't think that's related to your CPU issue, but odd just the same.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

An internet speed test is the only reliable way to determine your actual ISP 
bandwidth at any given moment, and that only after making sure your local area 
network is not actively downloading or uploading anything, or at least anything 
significant. Throughput from a source can only tell you how fast you can get 
data from that particular site at that particular time, which you aready know. 

Bob S


> On Apr 5, 2018, at 09:21 , Lagi Pittas via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> I didn't think I was going to get it coming down in 20 seconds - only that
> what I have paid for and was getting for at least 3 months has gone down by
> from 190 to 40 MBits.
> 
> It does mean though I can download from multiple sites at the same time
> without slowing down at the higher speed - and dropbox will work faster on
> big files.
> 
> Regards lagi


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Re: commandine standalone using 100% of core on doing what?

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

thanks for those tools Mark. I just tested it again on a plain blank
stack . make standalone .run with -ui flag .and its using going
full tiltmaybe you can reproduce it?

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 12:16 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 04/05/2018 08:46 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>
> You may try running the standalone with strace to see the system calls
>> it's making:
>>
>>strace ./mystandalone
>>
>>
> I don't think strace is on Windows. I'd recommend Process Lasso for seeing
> what's going on.
> https://bitsum.com/
>
> But if you need deep system tracing, you probably want Dr. Memory.
>
> http://drmemory.org/docs/page_drstrace.html
> http://drmemory.org/
>
> --
>  Mark Wieder
>  ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
>
> ___
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0

[Lagi Pittas via use-livecode]

Hi Mark,

I didn't think I was going to get it coming down in 20 seconds - only that
what I have paid for and was getting for at least 3 months has gone down by
from 190 to 40 MBits.

It does mean though I can download from multiple sites at the same time
without slowing down at the higher speed - and dropbox will work faster on
big files.

Regards lagi

On 5 April 2018 at 17:09, Mark Talluto via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> It is true that you paid for a 190Mbit connection. Not all servers will be
> able to saturate that size of a pipe. The amount a service can pump out
> will be based on many factors like level of network activity at that
> moment, health of the hops between you and the server, general network
> traffic load at the time, ….
>
> Most ISPs sell faster connections so that more people can consume more at
> the same time on your end of the network. Thus, you could have probably
> downloaded 3 LiveCode installers at the same time with 40Mbit speeds.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Talluto
> livecloud.io 
> nursenotes.net 
> canelasoftware.com 
>
>
> > On Apr 5, 2018, at 8:09 AM, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > I downloaded it in about 2 minutes - at 40MBits/s download .
> >
> > Which prompted me to check the speed. When I upgraded and paid extra it
> > was  190MBits/s,  so they are cheating me - need to find time to phone
> the
> > ~@"£$  up and listen to some Chamber Musaq
> >
> > Lagi
> >
> > On 3 April 2018 at 14:01, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Dear list members,
> >>
> >> LiveCode 9.0.0 is out, read all about it here:
> >>
> >> https://us7.campaign-archive.com/?u=8404b344b09103bf489dd8a9
> >> a=c574bcb9b3
> >>
> >> Have fun!
> >> The LiveCode Team
> >> --
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: commandine standalone using 100% of core on doing what?

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 04/05/2018 08:46 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

You may try running the standalone with strace to see the system calls 
it's making:


   strace ./mystandalone



I don't think strace is on Windows. I'd recommend Process Lasso for 
seeing what's going on.

https://bitsum.com/

But if you need deep system tracing, you probably want Dr. Memory.

http://drmemory.org/docs/page_drstrace.html
http://drmemory.org/

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0

[Mark Talluto via use-livecode]

It is true that you paid for a 190Mbit connection. Not all servers will be able 
to saturate that size of a pipe. The amount a service can pump out will be 
based on many factors like level of network activity at that moment, health of 
the hops between you and the server, general network traffic load at the time, 
….

Most ISPs sell faster connections so that more people can consume more at the 
same time on your end of the network. Thus, you could have probably downloaded 
3 LiveCode installers at the same time with 40Mbit speeds.

Best regards,

Mark Talluto
livecloud.io 
nursenotes.net 
canelasoftware.com 


> On Apr 5, 2018, at 8:09 AM, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> I downloaded it in about 2 minutes - at 40MBits/s download .
> 
> Which prompted me to check the speed. When I upgraded and paid extra it
> was  190MBits/s,  so they are cheating me - need to find time to phone the
> ~@"£$  up and listen to some Chamber Musaq
> 
> Lagi
> 
> On 3 April 2018 at 14:01, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Dear list members,
>> 
>> LiveCode 9.0.0 is out, read all about it here:
>> 
>> https://us7.campaign-archive.com/?u=8404b344b09103bf489dd8a9
>> a=c574bcb9b3
>> 
>> Have fun!
>> The LiveCode Team
>> --
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
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Re: commandine standalone using 100% of core on doing what?

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

hi richard... the standalone opens fine when i don't use the -UI
parameter. it opens up the blank stack and does nothingas its
supposed to since there is no code anywhere doing anything. no library was
modified...or even used.

its a blank stack.

the -ui flag puts it into the loop.  I guess I don't have to use it.

but still wondering what its doing.


On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Tom Glod wrote:
>
> > Hi folks, I wanted to benchmark the httpd library and decided to
> > create a command line server application.
> >
> > I run it using "-ui" command ...
> >
> > and I use the "on Startup" message to print out a welcome message"
> >
> > thats all I have so far.
> >
> > But my executable process is using up 100% of the core .
> > continuously.
> >
> > what is it doing ? what am I doing wrong?
> >
> > v9 .0 on windows 7.
>
> I don't know what that library is doing, but I use standalones in nearly
> every server system I make so I know it's not the standalone itself eating
> up CPU.
>
> If the lib hasn't been altered, you should see the same behavior no matter
> where it's running, even on the desktop.  If you don't perhaps something
> else is in play
>
> You may try running the standalone with strace to see the system calls
> it's making:
>
>   strace ./mystandalone
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  
>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
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Re: commandine standalone using 100% of core on doing what?

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Tom Glod wrote:

> Hi folks, I wanted to benchmark the httpd library and decided to
> create a command line server application.
>
> I run it using "-ui" command ...
>
> and I use the "on Startup" message to print out a welcome message"
>
> thats all I have so far.
>
> But my executable process is using up 100% of the core .
> continuously.
>
> what is it doing ? what am I doing wrong?
>
> v9 .0 on windows 7.

I don't know what that library is doing, but I use standalones in nearly 
every server system I make so I know it's not the standalone itself 
eating up CPU.


If the lib hasn't been altered, you should see the same behavior no 
matter where it's running, even on the desktop.  If you don't perhaps 
something else is in play


You may try running the standalone with strace to see the system calls 
it's making:


  strace ./mystandalone

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0

[Lagi Pittas via use-livecode]

Hi

I downloaded it in about 2 minutes - at 40MBits/s download .

Which prompted me to check the speed. When I upgraded and paid extra it
was  190MBits/s,  so they are cheating me - need to find time to phone the
~@"£$  up and listen to some Chamber Musaq

Lagi

On 3 April 2018 at 14:01, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Dear list members,
>
> LiveCode 9.0.0 is out, read all about it here:
>
> https://us7.campaign-archive.com/?u=8404b344b09103bf489dd8a9
> a=c574bcb9b3
>
> Have fun!
> The LiveCode Team
> --
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
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Re: [OT, maybe] - configuring a Windows Installer for a Standalone

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

Woo! That looks promising! Will try it - have to go babysitting now, but soon 
enough…

Thanks

Graham

> On 5 Apr 2018, at 15:46, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Just poking around, a manifest is like a config file for the app. As I 
> mentioned, your installer maker solution may have a way to configure one. If 
> not, apparently there are solutions that allow you to post process your 
> executable to include one. 
> 
> Also worth considering, in the Windows tab of the Standalone Application 
> Settings, at the bottom of the window is a popup menu for UAC settings. 
> Unless your app will require Administrative Access to the file system, I 
> would set this to Same as Invoker. Apparently this wil create some kind of 
> manifest. Also, the app will run with the same permissions as the caller. 
> This should prevent Windows from thinking the app must be run as an 
> administrator. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 06:58 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hmm, thanks for the discussion. I see that it is not a straightforward 
>> issue, and I am probably forced to get my hands dirty in the world of 
>> Windows. I am aching for a very simple set of step-by-step instructions, but 
>> of course that is not the job of anyone on this list! BTW, I am also asking 
>> in the Inno Setup forum, and have had some replies, but despite my 
>> references to LiveCode, it appears that nobody there can believe I’m not 
>> using Visual Basic or C++. There is dark talk of manifests, about which I 
>> know nothing, but maybe I can piece together an idiot’s solution.
> 
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Re: [OT, maybe] - configuring a Windows Installer for a Standalone

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Just poking around, a manifest is like a config file for the app. As I 
mentioned, your installer maker solution may have a way to configure one. If 
not, apparently there are solutions that allow you to post process your 
executable to include one. 

Also worth considering, in the Windows tab of the Standalone Application 
Settings, at the bottom of the window is a popup menu for UAC settings. Unless 
your app will require Administrative Access to the file system, I would set 
this to Same as Invoker. Apparently this wil create some kind of manifest. 
Also, the app will run with the same permissions as the caller. This should 
prevent Windows from thinking the app must be run as an administrator. 

Bob S


> On Apr 5, 2018, at 06:58 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hmm, thanks for the discussion. I see that it is not a straightforward issue, 
> and I am probably forced to get my hands dirty in the world of Windows. I am 
> aching for a very simple set of step-by-step instructions, but of course that 
> is not the job of anyone on this list! BTW, I am also asking in the Inno 
> Setup forum, and have had some replies, but despite my references to 
> LiveCode, it appears that nobody there can believe I’m not using Visual Basic 
> or C++. There is dark talk of manifests, about which I know nothing, but 
> maybe I can piece together an idiot’s solution.

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Re: tsnet on Mac doesn't follows htaccess rewrite rule

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

oic user agent means something other than what I was thinking. For me an agent 
is a local listening process. 

Bob S


> On Apr 5, 2018, at 02:16 , Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> FYI: As far, as a short test showed, LiveCode is sending two different user 
> agents (if you don't overwrite the http headers). User agent: "LiveCode 
> (Win32)" and "LiveCode (MacOS)". So probably I will be at least able to 
> redirect my Windows requests to another host.
> Tiemo


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Re: [OT, maybe] - configuring a Windows Installer for a Standalone

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

Hmm, thanks for the discussion. I see that it is not a straightforward issue, 
and I am probably forced to get my hands dirty in the world of Windows. I am 
aching for a very simple set of step-by-step instructions, but of course that 
is not the job of anyone on this list! BTW, I am also asking in the Inno Setup 
forum, and have had some replies, but despite my references to LiveCode, it 
appears that nobody there can believe I’m not using Visual Basic or C++. There 
is dark talk of manifests, about which I know nothing, but maybe I can piece 
together an idiot’s solution.

I must say I am astonished that I am the only person seeing this (apparently). 
I was seeking almost the simplest possible installer for an LC Windows 
standalone. The only thing that isn’t simple is that as it’s a splashstack 
design, there has to be a folder with the other components (stacks and the 
like) rather than one simple .exe file in the \Programs folder. Probably not 
relevant.

I feel I am still bumping around in the dark. When I die, you will find 
“LiveCode deployment” written on my heart.

Graham

> On 4 Apr 2018, at 23:51, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Elevation is a security feature of Windows since Vista I believe. Even though 
> you log in with what you might think is an administrator account, the actual 
> session user does NOT have Administrative rights. Anything that user does 
> only has standard user rights. UAC (user access control) must be invoked to 
> elevate the current process rights. For a non-administrator a dialog will 
> popup asking for a name and password. For an administrator, it will simply 
> present a Yes/No dialog. 
> 
> If you get the properties of the Windows executable, there is a Compatibility 
> tab. You may be able to uncheck Run this program as an administrator (but 
> then you won't be able to do anything requiring administrator access) or you 
> can try running in Windows XP Compatibility mode (if Windows 10 even supports 
> that anymore.) You will have to do this before building the installer, or 
> else there may be a feature in the Inno packager which allows you to set 
> this. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Apr 4, 2018, at 14:21 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Another deployment PITA.
>> 
>> I’ve got a standalone which is cross-platform and works well on Mac and PC. 
>> Unfortunately I’m having a lot of trouble with making a viable Windows 
>> Installer, using the Inno system. All goes well with the installation 
>> process until the user checks “launch” for the app at the end of the 
>> installation process. He/she then gets and error message (this is on both 
>> Windows 7 and Windows 10):
>> 
>>> C:/Program Files\Myprogram\Myprogram.exe
>>> 
>>> CreateProcess failed: code 740
>>> The requested operation requires elevation
>> 
>> I have no idea even conceptually of what elevation means, and I have no idea 
>> how to correct this situation. 
> 
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Re: eBook Academy error

[panagiotis merakos via use-livecode]

Hi Andrew,

You might find that useful:

https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/CONTRIBUTING.md

Best,
Panos
--

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 2:33 PM, Andrew Bell via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Well I took this as a chance to dip my toes in the GitHub waters. I
> created an account, signed my contributor agreement with LiveCode, and
> linked my GitHub to LiveCode.
>
> I made a commit (but no pull request) on 
> docs/dictionary/object/videoClip.lcdoc
> and it was pretty painless ;)
> Can anyone familiar with the process check me work?
>
> --Andrew Bell
>
>
>
>> Hi Andrew,
>>
>> I suggest filing a bug report to quality.livecode.com. This report would
>> be
>> a good candidate for a community pull request, as it requires changes in
>> the Dictionary.
>>
>> Best,
>> Panos
>> --
>>
>>
>
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Re: eBook Academy error

[Andrew Bell via use-livecode]

Well I took this as a chance to dip my toes in the GitHub waters. I  
created an account, signed my contributor agreement with LiveCode, and  
linked my GitHub to LiveCode.


I made a commit (but no pull request) on  
docs/dictionary/object/videoClip.lcdoc and it was pretty painless ;)

Can anyone familiar with the process check me work?

--Andrew Bell




Hi Andrew,

I suggest filing a bug report to quality.livecode.com. This report would be
a good candidate for a community pull request, as it requires changes in
the Dictionary.

Best,
Panos
--




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commandine standalone using 100% of core on doing what?

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

Hi folks, I wanted to benchmark the httpd library and decided to create a
command line server application.

I run it using "-ui" command ...

and I use the "on Startup" message to print out a welcome message"

thats all I have so far.

But my executable process is using up 100% of the core . continuously.

what is it doing ? what am I doing wrong?

v9 .0 on windows 7.

Thanks,

Tom
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Re: Zygodact queries

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

Sorry, I think it ended up on the list because I used the email address Jacque 
uses just for this list, as I copied it direct from a contribution by her. 
Still don’t quite understand though! As you say, it’s good info anyway.

Graham

> On 4 Apr 2018, at 23:54, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm not quite sure how this ended up on the list, but it's info for anyone 
> who might be interested. ;)
> 
> On 4/4/18 5:00 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi Graham, nice to hear from you.
>> The first issue with the malformed text is related to a thread on the 
>> mailing list where a bug was discussed; plain text copied to the clipboard 
>> would generate styled versions all by itself, and that's what gets pasted. 
>> Brian Milby wrote a bug fix for that which appears in LC 9.0 so if you 
>> recompile with that engine it might solve the problem. It does rely on the 
>> copied text being plain text only, so your idea to distribute serial keys as 
>> plain-text mail is probably a good one.
>> The inactive Register button is a known issue. The activation of the button 
>> depends on a keydown message so if the user pastes the key, no message is 
>> sent. Hitting any key -- arrow keys, space key, etc. -- is the workaround 
>> for now. I haven't quite figured out why it sometimes works on my Mac and 
>> not on some other machines; it may be a Windows issue but I haven't nailed 
>> it down yet. It doesn't happen to everyone.
>> Hope that sheds some light,
>> Jacque
>> On 4/4/18 4:37 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi Jacque
>>> 
>>> It’s a long time since I wrote to you about Zygodact, but I’m using it 
>>> quite happily to support Art DiVito’s PointPlots app, which I know you 
>>> contributed to some time ago.
>>> 
>>> Zygodact works well, but there are a couple of small issues. I realise this 
>>> is all ancient history to you, but I wonder if you have any comments:
>>> 
>>> 1. When the user pastes in the user name (their email address) and the 
>>> licence code generated by Zygodact, the paste isn’t “plain text” - I 
>>> suppose it’s whatever size and style the email which we sent to the user 
>>> generates. The result is that often, especially on Windows for some reason, 
>>> the code looks large and lumpy and somewhat overflows the frame of the 
>>> dialog box one pastes into.
>>> 
>>> 2. On the Mac version, when one pastes in the code, sometimes the 
>>> “register” button doesn’t activate (sometimes it does, but I can’t 
>>> understand the difference between the two cases). If one presses for 
>>> example the right-arrow key, then it does. Of course it’s trivial to 
>>> explain this to users, but can you think why this happens?
>>> 
>>> I suppose I can solve (1) by making sure our emails - which come via 
>>> FastSpring - are actually plain text. Would you recommend this?
>>> 
>>> Be assured that there are no show-stoppers here, but I’d like to see your 
>>> comments, if any.
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance
>>> 
>>> Graham
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> 
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AW: tsnet on Mac doesn't follows htaccess rewrite rule

[Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode]

FYI: As far, as a short test showed, LiveCode is sending two different user 
agents (if you don't overwrite the http headers). User agent: "LiveCode 
(Win32)" and "LiveCode (MacOS)". So probably I will be at least able to 
redirect my Windows requests to another host.
Tiemo


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von 
Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 4. April 2018 16:53
An: How to use LiveCode 
Cc: Bob Sneidar 
Betreff: Re: tsnet on Mac doesn't follows htaccess rewrite rule

A user agent is being sent??

Bob S


> On Apr 4, 2018, at 06:51 , Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Additional question:
> Does anybody knows, what user-agent is being sent by "load url" and 
> does it differs from Win to Mac, so that I could create a rewrite 
> condition in my htaccess?
> 
> Thanks
> Tiemo
> 
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-

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