Re: Websockets ... again.
One thing to bear in mind is that Livecode does not support secure sockets (despite what the Dictionary might say). On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 12:31 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > - How hard would it be to script it using LC's good socket support? > > Richard Gaskin > FourthWorld.com > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
OT: htmx and hyperscript
As I was looking into htmx (which is basically going in the opposite direction to that which Livecode is taking with WASM), I discovered the author of htmx has also implemented a kind of hypertalk in the browser (the point being to more simply hook into DOM events). It looks rather ugly IMO (unlike htmx). But I know people on this list are often interested in descendants/hat-tips to Hypercard. https://hyperscript.org/ Regards, Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Charts widget.
Hi Alex I've started using this, quite pleased with what it can do in terms of presentation. But it seems to me (going off the Dictionary and my own tests) that it doesn't receive any mouse messages. So clicking on any of the displayed chart components has no effect. I haven't yet investigated setting jsonoptions (as the designated way to invoke more of the chartsjs functionality). Regards Bernard On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 9:55 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Anyone using this widget ? > > Is there some documentation (other than the obvious dictionary entries) > about how to do different kinds of chart ? > > In the last 4-6 months, I've done 3 or 4 little personal projects where > I wanted to create a chart, but I've not been able to figure out how to > use the charts widget to do time-based charts. > > What I mean is, e.g., create a chart for the following data > > 2022-02-01100 > 2022-02-04500 > 2022-02-05525 > 2022-02-17900 > > > Obviously, the dates along the X-axis should be spaced properly > according to their data value, not equally spaced and simply labelled. > > Looking at the charts.js documentation, it tells me (or rather, fails to > tell me, since I can't understand it) that I need to define an 'adapter' > and shows some sample javascript. I don't really understand how to do it > simply in javascript - far less how I could use that in the widget. > > Can anyone give me a clue or a pointer ? > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: If you're using the github version of Navigator, please update
Thanks for reminding me to re-install a copy, Geoff. I've been away from LC development for a year or so, started again using a new machine, and had forgotten how much I like using your tool. I just downloaded v 7.5 RC2 from your Wordpress site, which looks like it's at the cutting edge along with the Github version. I would suggest you put the URL to the documentation in your signature. Probably most LC users have no idea what they are missing! https://gcanyon.wordpress.com/navigator-documentation/ Regards Bernard On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 8:23 AM Geoff Canyon via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Turns out I had a glitch I didn't notice with my github client, and no > updates were making it to main for some time now. So if you happen to have > installed Navigator by cloning the repo, now would be a good time to > update. Some improvements that have happened: > > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
html5 - javascriptHandlers
With the Browser widget javascript can send messages to the parent app, triggering some Livecodescript in the parent. Is there an equivalent in a html5 deployment? It seems that in html5 deployment Livecodescript can call to the Javascript of the parent browser by "do somestuff() as Javascript". I am sure the equivalent of javascriptHandlers must exist but I can't find out how to make the call. Regards, Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: 10.0.0-dp-2 html5 and liburlLastRHHeaders()
Hi Mark It turns out it is an anomaly due to CORS. There were so many steps involved in trying to isolate what was going on (juggling different deployments, different servers). Eventually I got there. https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23633 I wonder if there are a whole host of CORS issues which Javascript developers already know to look out for. Regards, Bernard On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 11:25 AM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > As I said, LC is not stripping anything - we are returning what JS > returns. > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: debugging javascript in html5
Here's a peculiarity I haven't seen mentioned before. I am trying to test the viability of the idea of a function to call back to LC and provide debugging info. Assume you create a LC function lclog(pmsg,pval) and you put a breakpoint in the IDE inside that function body. Set the htmltext of a browser widget to the code below, set the javascriptHandlers of the browser to contain the word: lclog . Your browser widget will have a button 'clickme'. 1) On clicking that button the JS alerts ALL trigger first. 2) After they have fired the first call to lclog() runs, and the second call to lclog() never runs. function lcxhr(method, url) { alert('lcxhr called'); var json = JSON.stringify({ name: "John", surname: "Smith"}); liveCode.lclog('json created', json); alert('you see this alert before the above call to lclog()'); liveCode.lclog('exit js function',''); } http://192.168.0.34:8080/tabs/echo');" /> In case that html gets mangled by the uselist software, here's the above html base64encoded: PGh0bWw+PGhlYWQ+PHNjcmlwdD5mdW5jdGlvbiBsY3hocihtZXRob2QsIHVybCkgewphbGVy dCgnbGN4aHIgY2FsbGVkJyk7IAp2YXIganNvbiA9IEpTT04uc3RyaW5naWZ5KHsgIG5hbWU6 ICJKb2huIiwgIHN1cm5hbWU6ICJTbWl0aCJ9KTsKbGl2ZUNvZGUubGNsb2coJ2pzb24gY3Jl YXRlZCcsIGpzb24pOwphbGVydCgneW91IHNlZSB0aGlzIGFsZXJ0IGJlZm9yZSB0aGUgYWJv dmUgY2FsbCB0byBsY2xvZygpJyk7CmxpdmVDb2RlLmxjbG9nKCdleGl0IGpzIGZ1bmN0aW9u JywnJyk7Cn08L3NjcmlwdD48L2hlYWQ+PGJvZHk+PGlucHV0IGlkPSJjbGlja01lIiB0eXBl PSJidXR0b24iIHZhbHVlPSJjbGlja21lIiBvbmNsaWNrPSJsY3hocignJywnaHR0cDovLzE5 Mi4xNjguMC4zNDo4MDgwL3RhYnMvZWNoby50Y2wnKTsiIC8+PC9ib2R5PjwvaHRtbD4= So we can't rely on the timing of anything returned to a javascripHandler. Moreover, once a javascriptHandler has fired there can't be anything else that runs. Quite a limitation IMO. Regards Bernard > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
debugging javascript in html5
Considering the html5 enhancements might well be the biggest thing in LC 10, I can foresee a whole world of pain when it comes to us debugging Javascript interactions. Without access to all the development tools that come in modern browsers how is any interaction of any complexity between LC and JS going to be debugged? I think at the bare minimum there needs to be JS code loaded on the default page of the html5 app launched from the IDE through which JS code users would easily/transparently be able to feed logging/debugging information in _their_ JS code back to the LC app running as html5. I'm running into these problems already in trying to work out why libUrlLastRHHeaders() is not returning all headers. I don't think I'm doing anything particularly complex - yet debugging normal JS in a browser is easy, debugging in LC is easy, but the LC/JS/LC interactions are a black box. IMO this lack of insight to what is going on is going to be an impediment to LC users taking advantage of the new html5 platform. I feel like I'm working with browsers from circa 1999, before the time of the Venkman debugger that came from Mozilla. Even a default JS function liveCode.log('variable =' + variable) which was set up to send its parameter to the LC html5 app running in the browser would be helpful. But TBH I suspect more detailed consideration needs to be given to this area. I think it was 2015 when the html5 deployment was first released. Seven years later and this is finally getting to something that could be useful, and which certainly would mark out Livecode from almost all other development tools. Maybe others have already worked out how to get insight into what the JS is doing in the context of a html5 app. If so, I'd be interested to know how they are debugging these interactions. Regards Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: 10.0.0-dp-2 html5 and liburlLastRHHeaders()
Hi Mark Thank you for your response. However, I just tried in the Javascript console of Safari, Chrome and Firefox and the local test server to which I am POSTing is returning the headers (as LC does when running not as HTML5). Here's the JS I used. As you can see, it's a simple POST rather than anything multipart. var json = JSON.stringify({ name: "John", surname: "Smith"}); var http = new XMLHttpRequest(); var url = 'http://192.168.0.34:8080/tabs/echo'; http.open('POST', url, true); http.setRequestHeader('Content-type', 'application/json; charset=utf-8'); var result = 'comm with server failed'; http.onreadystatechange = function() { if (http.readyState == 4 && http.status == 200) { result=http.responseText; console.log(result); console.log( http.getAllResponseHeaders() ); } } http.send(json); >> access-control-allow-origin: * connection: keep-alive content-length: 56 content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 date: Thu, 17 Mar 2022 12:53:21 GMT server: NaviServer/4.99.20 << So there is something else going on between LC's libUrlLastRHHeaders() and LC's interaction with the JS XMLHttpRequest(). This something is stripping out most of the headers. My next step is to turn that JS into a function that I can call from LC within the context of the browser to see whether the full headers are returned to LC from that JS call. Regards Bernard On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 9:58 AM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > We already use that JS API to implement lastRHHeaders - we just return > the value it returns verbatim. > > Therefore, I'm guessing this is something the API is doing. The only > thing which may give a hint is (in that doc): > >'For multipart requests, this returns the headers from the current > part of the request, not from the original channel.' > > Not sure whether that applies in this case or not (except that POST is > generally used in multipart requests I think...) > > Anyway, file a bug with an example if you can and we'll take a look. > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: 10.0.0-dp-2 html5 and liburlLastRHHeaders()
If one could get hold in Livecodescript of the Javascript Request object that was sent to the server, then one might be able to get hold of the Response headers. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/XMLHttpRequest/getAllResponseHeaders My guess is that the shim is getting hold of this information but for some strange reason it is stripping out most of the headers. > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: 10.0.0-dp-2 html5 and liburlLastRHHeaders()
With some servers the cache-control header is returned too. It looks to me that there is some mysterious shim that exists between libUrl calls and Javascript, and this shim is the (likely) reason why only some headers are being returned to the app. Does anyone know what is going on here? I am trying to find the "HTML5 Deployment" guide, which supposedly lists the limitations. I can't find this HTML5 Deployment guide from a Google search nor within the IDE (where it supposedly lives) nor on livecode.com. Here's what the Release Notes say: For more information, please see the "HTML5 Deployment" guide in the LiveCode IDE. Anyone else able to locate this document? Maybe they mean the general Deployment section in the Livecode Guides (which does have a HTML5 subsection). Considering that the subsection within that Deployment guide mentions Emscripten, I have my doubts that it is the place where we are to find accurate information about how HTML5 deployment works with the 10.x version. I'm at a loss as to how we are to provide feedback on these great new features coming in version 10 if there is scant documentation on what they are supposed to do or not do. I've already experienced a situation (on Windows and Mac) where using the Test button fails to launch the app in a browser (my guess is something wrong with LC's httpd service). That doesn't look good. After several repeated attempts with the Test button the app eventually launches in the browser. Regards Bernard On Tue, Mar 15, 2022 at 8:08 PM Bernard Devlin wrote: > The only headers returned from a POST command are > content-length > content-type > (in the IDE all the headers sent by the server are returned by this > function). > > Seems a bit strange to me, as there may well be other important > meta-information carried in headers (for example, Date:, at the very least > could be an important header). I can't understand the logic behind these > other headers being stripped out. > > This oddity is not documented in the Dictionary nor the Release Notes. > Should this be submitted as a bug? > > Regards > Bernard > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
10.0.0-dp-2 html5 and liburlLastRHHeaders()
The only headers returned from a POST command are content-length content-type (in the IDE all the headers sent by the server are returned by this function). Seems a bit strange to me, as there may well be other important meta-information carried in headers (for example, Date:, at the very least could be an important header). I can't understand the logic behind these other headers being stripped out. This oddity is not documented in the Dictionary nor the Release Notes. Should this be submitted as a bug? Regards Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [ANN] Release 10.0.0 DP-1
Thanks Panos. That kind of works. It always opens in the default browser i.e. trying to select another browser as the test target has no effect. Is this a known bug? >From test/save with browser closed (compile to standalone, then let IDE launch browser): Load time LC 10 - 5 secs Load time LC 9.6.1 - 7 secs Loading same saved stack with browser already open (re-using URL): Load time LC 10 - 2 secs Load time LC 9.6.1 - 5 secs I tested with both Brave and Edge, but couldn't detect any difference in load speed between them. These tests were just wall clock time. On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 3:48 PM panagiotis m via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hello Bernard, > > Trying to open the local html file will fail due to CORS - Firefox may or > may not work - I think it needs some tweaks, and not sure if this is still > possible in the latest versions. We probably need to update this lesson. > > The correct way to test is to use the Development -> Test Target -> your browser> and then Development -> Test > > Hope this helps. > > Panos > -- > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [ANN] Release 10.0.0 DP-1
I'm not sure this merits a bug report (just yet). I suspect I'm doing something wrong. I installed LC 10 on Windows 10 and wanted to see how much difference webassembly made to the loading speed. However, after trying on 3 browsers (Firefox, Chrome, Edge), it fails to load. On each browser the error in the JS console is the same. >> both async and sync fetching of the wasm failed failed to asynchronously prepare wasm: RuntimeError: abort(both async and sync fetching of the wasm failed). Build with -s ASSERTIONS=1 for more info. << Has anyone got it working? I just tried opening the local html file created by the Standalone Builder. I even followed the Firefox tip in the last comments on this lesson. https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/800867-how-do-i-put-my-first-app-on-the-web Regards, Bernard. On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 2:30 PM panagiotis m via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hello Mike, > > I believe you should be able to use Xcode 12.5 with LiveCode on MacOS 12.x. > > LC does not actually use Xcode, it just needs the iOS SDKs and some command > line tools. So the following should work: > > 1. Download Xcode 12.5.xip from Apple's downloads area > 2. Expand the .xip file > 3. Run in the Terminal: sudo xcode-select -s /path/to/Xcode12.5.app, e.g. > sudo xcode-select -s /Users/mike/Xcodes/Xcode12.5.app > 4. Run in the Terminal: sudo xcode-select --install > 5. In the LC Prefs, add the path to Xcode12.5. Remove other paths to > Xcode13, if any. > 6. Try to build an iOS standalone > > >Any chance we'll get XCode 13.1 in DP2? > Yes, it is quite likely. We plan to add support for Xcode13.1 in LC 9.6.6 > RC-1, and then merge this to LC 10.0 DP-2. > > Kind regards, > Panos > > > On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 at 23:02, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > FYI, XC 12.5.x is being a bugger with MacOS 12.x for new hardware. Any > > chance we'll get XCode 13.1 in DP2? > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)
I was having problems with SE on Windows randomly causing crashes just by clicking in the text are of SE. When I switched off all the bling, I never had another crash like that. I plan to slowly re-introduce the bling to see if I can identify which part causes the crashes. Regards, Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] M1 Mac Mini USB problems
I use a USB KVM to switch keyboard, mouse, monitor between M1 Mac Mini and a PC (the KVM is powered by USB even though it comes with an optional separate power source). If there was a general defectiveness in the Mac's USB support, I'd expect it to appear in this kind of scenario (as I switch dozens of times each day). In more than 6 months of usage, I haven't seen a single problem. Admittedly I haven't (yet) tried mounting an external USB hard drive. A far more frequent problem for me is that the PC network adapter loses its connection, even though the machine is connected by cable. Regards, Bernard On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 4:46 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I am having problems with my new 2020 Mac Mini's USB ports. The new time > machine disk will only backup a gig or two before erroring out. Then the > disk is then is not mountable. All sorts of errors when trying first aid or > trying to mount it via first aid. Sent the disk back and the new one did > the same thing. I can init it on the win 10 system and then the Mac Mini > sees it again. I thought it was an unpowered USB-A hub issue. I then got > the power supply for the hub and same thing. I bought an USB-C hub and > again same thing. Plugged the Drive directly into the Mac Mini and same > problems. My USB keyboard/mouse will not work reliably using either the > USB-A or C hub. It seems that the Mac Mini's USB HW/SW is flakey. > > Has anyone else seen/heard anything like this? > > This is very annoying after dropping over a yard and a half on this thing > to replace my perfectly running Mac Book Pro so I could upgrade to Big Sur. > > > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdim...@evergreeninfo.net > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Mudslinging and consequences - a change to our policy
Thank heavens this policy change has finally come. Baseless accusations can end up affecting perception. Surrounded by negative criticism one can actually blame LC for defects that exist in oneself. It has happened to me, where I've tracked down the defect in my own work just before I was going to write to the list and complain about a defect in LC. IMO the Forum is even worse for this behaviour. I think it's a product of the way Forum software works. People can search for something (not necessarily intending any malice), and in their search uncover some past series of complaints, and resurrect past complaints which again become the focus of the people using the Forum. That's not to say there are no defects. There's no software on the planet that has no defects. I have had problems where I have been unable to provide a recipe for a bug report. I simply couldn't detect a reproducible pattern (and sometimes it appears no-one else has seen a particular defect). But I understand the absolute necessity for a bug report to have a reproducible recipe. In these cases I have to patient, committed and cast my net of investigation further until I can find a reproducible pattern and it might take weeks or months before a pattern emerges. The one thing I've never doubted is the integrity of the people who work for LC Ltd. On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 1:00 PM Heather Laine via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Dear List Folks, > > This list is intended for users to help each other in the use of LiveCode. > Sometimes LC staff get involved and help out here also. It can be a great > place to constructively discuss improvements. It is not a place to take > potshots at each other, at LiveCode or at LiveCode staff. In the future, if > a list member is perceived to be doing this by myself or by a reasonable > set of other list members, they will be banned. > > For the avoidance of doubt, by taking potshots I mean: > > Accusations of untruths, lying or lack of integrity > Persistently pointing out flaws in LiveCode without any positive > suggestions on resolution > Namecalling of any kind > General rudeness - please re-read your post before sending and check it > for tone > > Everyone is entitled to their opinion. What everyone is not entitled to do > is express unfounded negative opinions about LiveCode and its staff on this > list, which is run by LiveCode, for LiveCode, and for the benefit of > LiveCode's users. > > I trust I make myself clear. This warning will not be repeated. > > Warmest Regards, > > Heather > > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager > LiveCode Ltd > www.livecode.com > > > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OT: Priorities (was: Re: Stack with the same name loop)
I don't see much benefit in coulda, woulda, shoulda. Tcl was so prominent it was actually listed in the HTML 4 reference spec as one of three possible languages which could be used to write dynamic HTML (VBScript, Tcl, Javascript). https://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/scripts.html Tcl being widely-deployed, cross-platform and free didn't lead to it being used within web browsers. Despite all the apparent conditions necessary for success it sank into obscurity. It doesn't mean it's not the best thing for job X, Y, Z, it just means few people are exploiting the benefits it offers. Same for Livecode, IMO. "Men make history, just not on grounds of their own choosing". Regards, Bernard On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 10:36 PM Paul McClernan via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > What seems to come out of your interesting historical observations is > > that HyperCard went "wrong" when people had to start paying for it. > > > > I think it was a series of things that went wrong with HyperCard. > > Interestingly enough WINE (open source) and CodeWeavers (prop.) seem to > > manage to co-exist and help each other successfully. > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: IDE crashing on Windows 10
Hi Curry Thanks. It had occurred to me that it could be the SE bling that was causing the crashes. So I had switched off almost all of the bling. The crashes on clicking within the text field stopped after that - only a day or so now, but I haven't seen that kind of crash since I switched off most of the bling. However, yesterday I went to click "File/Save" on the IDE's main menu, and the IDE crashed (wiping out the work I was just trying to save). So I'm not sure if this is the same problem or a different one. If it had been the File menu of the SE itself, I might be inclined to think it was the same bug. But given it was the main File menu, I'm less inclined. I am wondering what is unique about my situation that LC is so flaky on Windows. No other app I run crashes like this. I honestly don't believe anyone who was new to LC would continue to use the tool if it crashed the way it crashes on me. If I don't get any more random crashes for a few days I plan to re-enable the bling and see if they return. I've switched off Geoff's Navigator too. So now I'm running with just a standard install. If the random crashes return then I'll create a new user and install a later version under that username. I've checked and it's not an out-of-memory situation (the machine has 8gb and only 75% of that is in use). Regards, Bernard On Mon, Oct 18, 2021 at 5:59 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Bernard: > > > I can be in the Script Editor typing away. > > I move the mouse to click on another line > > of the script. Blammo. LC crashes. > > Any idea how this can be pinned down? > > I believe I've seen this particular crash only twice, > each time an isolated incident with no obvious pattern. > > > Yesterday I had the IDE crash five or six times > > in the middle of editing a script. > > With that kind of recurrence, a recipe should be doable! > After you finish some work, I would disable any workaround > and try to keep triggering it to find the problem. > > BTW, what SE "bling" options do you have enabled? > (I call them "bling": flashy and performance-expensive.) > I only use Control Structure Completion and Autoformat. > Colorization is also enabled, it seems OK. > > > LC 9.6.1 > > Have you tried a more recent LC version? > A few crashes have been fixed lately. > Probably not this one, but worth a try. > > (And several more are still with us, > despite the amusing skepticism > of a few "crash deniers" who later > casually admit they have crashes too!) :D > > I still need to report another crash/hang pair, > but they show up on one particular project > so I'll have to do it when I'm back on that work. > Hope it happens enough to recipe. (Or not at all.) > > Custom Software Development > "Biblical Methods, Better Results" > Christian LiveCode Training and Consulting > http://livecodeconsulting.com/ > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: IDE crashing on Windows 10
Here's what I decided to do. I've put an intercept handler in a frontscript that doesn't allow mouseDown or mouseDoubleDown to pass if the target is the scriptEditor field. Those msgs are only sent when mousebutton 3 is used, so I'm disciplining myself to only click with that button in the script editor. If the crashes stop, then it's one of these being handled somewhere in the message path. Or it's some general defect with clicking in that field (with the normal buttons) - that will be harder for me to workaround. Yesterday I had the IDE crash five or six times in the middle of editing a script. I'm pretty sure the crashes have all been when the click happens with button 1 (that's how I'd normally click in the script editor). Using button 3 might at least stop the crashes. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
IDE crashing on Windows 10
LC 9.6.1 I can be in the Script Editor typing away. I move the mouse to click on another line of the script. Blammo. LC crashes. Any idea how this can be pinned down? I can't see any pattern. The only plugin open is Geoff's Navigator. There's only a few tabs open in the SE. The total size of all scripts in the stack is probably 1000 lines. I'm not doing anything fancy with fields or images. The portion I'm working on is just posting to a URL, then calling jsonToArray on the results. It's baffling me. And it doesn't look good for a professional tool. I've seen this kind of thing before with red bullet breakpoints (just clicking on one of those to set/unset it) could cause the IDE to crash. Regards, Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Android SDK install without Android Studio (LC 9.6.5 App Bundles)
I'm glad to hear that. I don't think my instructions were easy to follow. AFAIK Klaus was the only person able to benefit from them unaided. Others I had to walk through a debugging process as they either couldn't follow the instructions or they had a new problem which I hadn't yet encountered. TBH I dreaded offering to help anyone else because it could be a multi-day process. On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 9:20 AM panagiotis m via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > So, we can update the lesson to offer the simpler option as outlined by > Ralph. > > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Android SDK install without Android Studio (LC 9.6.5 App Bundles)
One has to wonder why, if that is so simple, LC Ltd recommend that people install the full Android Studio. That is the only advice they provide on setting things up for Android development. You only have to look at the Lesson to see the problems people have with the existing procedure. There are 86 comments on that Lesson. I've spent days on the Forum helping people out with Android Studio/LC config problems. https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/985962-livecode-and-android-studio Regards, Bernard > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Webview scrolling
Are you using mobileSetKeyboardDisplay "pan"? I found a bug with that too though. https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23245 On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 2:21 AM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I told a web designer I'd ask here to see if anyone has ideas. I'm > displaying a web page with a > form in a browser widget. On Android, when I tap into one of the lower > form fields, the browser > content does not scroll up and the keyboard covers the field you're trying > to type into. There > are two or three entry fields at the bottom that do that. > > On iOS it scrolls up automatically so there's no problem. Android doesn't > move at all. You can > manually scroll to the bottom but not beyond it, so the lower fields are > obscured. > > Anyone here know how to fix that? The designer has tinkered with margins > and padding but that > isn't working. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OT: Priorities (was: Re: Stack with the same name loop)
At least the new licensing model should allow LC to prioritise based on what customers use. IMO the open source initiative was the single biggest mistake LC Ltd made. With that drain on resources over hopefully they can get to work on fixing some of the outstanding deficiencies. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Stack with the same name loop
I guess it comes down to what different people are doing with LC. I get the erroneous "this script has been altered externally" message about 3 times a year. I never get the "A stack with the same name as the one you are trying to load" unless I really am opening two stacks with the same name. In my own work I always try to work with the long ID of every control. It's the least ambiguous thing one can do. The IDE should do the same. On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 12:45 AM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On the bright side, it isn't as confusing as the one that tells you the > script has been changed in an external editor, even if it wasn't, and then > you don't know whether to keep what you're looking at or take a chance and > reload. You can lose work by choosing the wrong button. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Starter Plan offer - China users
Somehow I doubt that the process will be so crude that (e.g. Livecode.com DNS resolution fails) all standalones built with the Starter Plan would stop working. I'd imagine that the check for validity would happen for several days/weeks before an app stopped working. It surely isn't in LC Ltd's interest to implement this in a crude fashion. My experience in Asia 20 years ago was that no-one paid for software. There were huge computing shopping malls where DVDs of pirated products from Microsoft, Adobe, etc. could be bought for $3 per DVD (often the same DVD would contain multiple applications that we'd be paying $1000s for). On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 12:41 PM Andre Garzia via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > To be honest, if “always being able to launch standalone” is a concern for > the developer, then they shouldn’t be using the Starter Plan. > > In my understanding the Starter Plan is a personal experience, it is > available so that one can learn programming and use it to build their own > tools. If someone wants to ship software, they should be using Standard > Plan or above. > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Android SDK lesson
My advice to LC Ltd was: since Android Studio incorporates its own JDK and LC Ltd's official advice is to install Android Studio, then the simplest path is to have the IDE rely on the paths of that bundled JDK to setup and configure the LC/Android interactions. On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 12:43 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Bernard, > > I did and it says not a valid Android SDK path - and yet B4A accepts it > without any protestations. > > I have posted to the thread you were helping people at omn the forum. > > We have to get a definitive "no pain" way of installation as it seems there > are different problems on different platforms. > > Lagi > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Android SDK lesson
Hi Lagi I'd suggest following the Lesson as the most straightforward route. Let us know if that doesn't work. Regards, Bernard On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 8:17 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > I will look for a thread by you and expect that it should be the latest > unless you say otherwise - you didn't say if it works on the latest yet > though - which version of indy should I use? > > Regards Lagi > > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Android SDK lesson
Good luck with that. For the last two people I helped on the Forum with that issue, it turned out that Google had provided a version of Android Studio where key build tools were missing. I discovered this after days of investigation in trying to help people get their setup working and after I uploaded a 300mb zip file to the cloud which the user used to replace the relevant folder in his Android Studio installation. Google broke AS on both Linux and OSX (and possibly Windows too). You can see the big yellow warning callouts in the Lesson to which you link. There's probably more replies to that Livecode Lesson than any other. I've advised LC Ltd on what I think they should do to simply the install/setup for Android development. Considering that Google broke the later versions of their tool and Google hide the unbroken versions (not to mention the lunacy of Google's naming-numbering), you are not going to find a one button solution from LC that works around all those issues. Regards, Bernard On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 5:01 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi > > I have not compiled for Android for nearly 3 years now and Ive had new > machines. I want to install the SDK and I remember the > problems I had originally - so to save my mental health > > Can someone (Panos?) point me to the LATEST lessons for the latest version > that will install with 1 press of a button please (sarcasm). > > I have the lesson here > > https://lessons.livecode.com/m/2571/l/625198-livecode-and-android-studio > > But it mentions Java 8 and to uninstall 9 and 10 (I have none installed on > this machine) > > Thanks in advance > > Regards Lagi > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: M1 Mac possible problem
No problems that I could see. On Wed, Sep 15, 2021 at 6:18 AM Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi to all those that did a test of my Music In the Air program some days > ago on your Mac. > > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: M1 Mac possible problem
I tried it on M1. After selecting "English" the next screen is in Chinese. However, going beyond that it is in English. I couldn't detect any problems. I went through half a dozen screens. The only one that didn't load was the Glossary, but a dialogue came up saying that wasn't available in this version. On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 6:57 AM Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Would someone who has an M1 try running it and letting me know what > happens? > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: AW: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)
Hi Lagi I just went back and repeated my steps from a couple of days ago. New start for IDE, new stack, pasted in the same 8,000 lines as a comment. And this time there was no slow down. So it does look like any such problems are less predictable than my initial test suggested. I toggled on then off all the options in the Script Editor related to autocomplete, etc. And no matter what state they were in made no difference. In the light of this unreproduceability - how can LC be expected to identify/fix this problem? It may not even be within their control and certainly they can't start to spend resources investigating it if the professional programmers using LC on Win10 can't identify a predicable pattern. I took my 8,000 lines of text and re-started the IDE multiple times. And then I added 50% more to the comment. It does seem that the longer the script is the more likely that your treacle problem is going to appear. Perhaps if you tried this you could come up with a more definite pattern and if so, then LC could look at why it is that a 8000, 12000, 18000 line script causes a slow down. With 12,000 lines even switching off all the Edit/Options made no improvement: adding a return to a line took 3 seconds for the screen to update. What happens if you have a 24,000 line script? Do you get a predictable pattern? Is it always slow? Once you get a predictable recipe then LC Ltd have something they can work on. Personally I'd find a 12,000 line script really hard to navigate. But until LC Ltd specify that there's a length to how long a script can be, there's no reason why you shouldn't have 12,000 line scripts. Yesterday my Win10 laptop totally froze. I had open only two programmes: MS OneNote and Chrome. Even ctrl-alt-delete did nothing. I couldn't even bring up task manager to see what could possibly be using all the resources. After minutes of waiting for it to respond, I went to remove battery and power cable (normal power button is set to hibernate not power off), and suddenly it started to respond again. When I worked in tech support I was the star problem solver. And now I've over 20 years more experience with computing, but these days Windows 10 leaves me scratching my head. MS have done some great things (WSL is one of them). In my experience the weird behaviour I experience with Win10 is much, much rarer on a Mac (I can't remember an incident in 20 years of using a variety of Macs). On a different Win10 machine I have a well-know SQL editor. Whenever it asks if I want to apply an update to it and I click "no", it crashes. It's never been updated since I installed it. But this behaviour only started a few months ago. To me that's really weird. When something works I don't upgrade because it works as is. Regards, Bernard On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 11:59 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Bernard, > > > I didn't make myself clear - it can work for hours with no slowdown at > 13,000 lines on an older computer there is just no pattern. > > Lagi > > On Wed, 8 Sept 2021 at 18:54, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I pasted 8000 lines of text into Script Editor on Windows (just 1 large > > block comment). On typing chars take a couple of seconds to appear once > > there is that much text. Cut it down to 800 lines and it's fine. > > > > With 8000 lines switch off "live errors" and the slow typing issue is > gone. > > > > I've asked Erik to try with 8000 line comment on his 32GB rig, since he > has > > no problems. He might have to increase the size of the text in that field > > to 12000 or 16000, but I suspect eventually he too will get your treacle. > > > > On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 4:52 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode < > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > When it works it works - I cut the main stack to 7000 lines and still > get > > > the slowdown. > > > > > > When it slows down its the same treacle/quicksand/molasses whether the > > > machine is a 10th gen with 16g or an 8gig pentium - when its fast its > > fast > > > on both - no consistency > > > > > > Lagi > > > > > > > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > KIndest Regards Lagi > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: SE Show Globals inverted
Yes. I've also seen crashes on non-conditional breakpoints. I literally save before any test run. Then at suitable junctures I intercept savestack (+ controlKey down) to write the stack out as Json + script only stack and commit it all to my VCS. But again I haven't (yet) noticed a pattern with these things. I did notice that the remote debugger prevents all IDE stack breakpoints from working until the app is closed on a test device. For a long time I couldn't understand why breakpoints had stopped working and why no-one else was having this problem. Then finally it struck me that there may only be a small group of us using remote debugger (+ Android). On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 8:50 PM Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > And while we're confessing laziness, my more shameful confession is about > a > crashing bug when using conditional breakpoints. I've become used to being > very wary as soon as I start using these, and saving very often. Have > others > seen this issue? > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: SE Show Globals inverted
I've seen it for years too. I never worked out what caused it. But I'm an inveterate user of the message box when debugging. I will look out for a pattern to it now. On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 6:32 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > This has been going on for years but I never reported it because... lazy. > For me, it happens when I'm stepping through a handler and I change or > query something in the message box. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 8, 2021 11:25:24 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > wrote: > > > Here's a new one. I've noticed this before, that globals were appearing > > when show globals checkbox was not hilited. I just noticed that during > this > > condition, checking the show globals checkbox hides the globals! LOL! > I'll > > toss up a bug report later. > > > > Bob S > > > > > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: AW: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)
I pasted 8000 lines of text into Script Editor on Windows (just 1 large block comment). On typing chars take a couple of seconds to appear once there is that much text. Cut it down to 800 lines and it's fine. With 8000 lines switch off "live errors" and the slow typing issue is gone. I've asked Erik to try with 8000 line comment on his 32GB rig, since he has no problems. He might have to increase the size of the text in that field to 12000 or 16000, but I suspect eventually he too will get your treacle. On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 4:52 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > When it works it works - I cut the main stack to 7000 lines and still get > the slowdown. > > When it slows down its the same treacle/quicksand/molasses whether the > machine is a 10th gen with 16g or an 8gig pentium - when its fast its fast > on both - no consistency > > Lagi > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: LiveCode 10 - what are your thoughts on the new features?
Hi Martin I'm interested in the web assembly for HTML5. I had actually written two different apps which I would have done as HTML5 but the loading time alone was just to slow. The increased loading speed alone should now make these possible as HTML5. There are still a lot of other things that are difficult to do with the current HTML5 deployment to make it anything like a fat-client deployment. Still, for my purposes it can't even get off the ground without the initial load speed improvement. I am expecting the M1 build to bring about increased performance, but I have no complaints with the current Rosetta speed on M1 (but the 10x faster startup time of M1 Macs over Intel Macs could give us some idea of how much of a speed increase we might see). I like the array literals idea. That's something I've wanted for so, so long. And the constants built from expressions is a nice thing to have. Having named rather than merely positional parameters for handlers would also be something I'd like (Python does a few things right). But these things are basically syntactic sugar. With Switch statements I always try to put the options in order of greatest likelihood first, but that can't always make a difference if conditions follow a more even distribution. Still, it's one less thing to have to think about. But I would hope there are even bigger things coming with version 10 than these. Regards, Bernard On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 11:03 PM Martin Koob via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi all. > > There has been lots of discussion on the list and forums about the one > part of Kevin’s announcement regarding the changes in licensing but nothing > that I see on the other major part of the announcement — the new features > coming in LiveCode 10. > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Standard Plan Pricing Confusion
I haven't looked into it as I have nothing to do with education. But doesn't the University plan give you all 7 platforms + additional features for about $950? https://livecode.com/education-plans/ On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 9:50 PM Timothy Bleiler via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > The pricing for the standard plan looks confusing and inconsistent when > first encountered. It’s also further complicated by the "add on" options. > > There are 2 add ons: > email support > Pro Package (Device Debugging, code optimization tool, the network layer > (tsNet library), iOS accessory access, pdf library). The info box on this > still references the Community and Indy licenses which supposedly don’t > exist. > > Hopefully I have this figured out right. If I’m wrong it could reflect > poorly on me or the plans ;-) > Here’s the rounded-off pricing if you just buy deployment options. After > the first platform you can substitute 1 of the 2 add on options for > platform in each of these tiers. > > 1 platform = $300 > 2 platforms = $500 ($200 more) > 3 platforms = $900 ($400 more) > 4 platforms = $1000 ($100 more) > 5 platforms = $1500 ($500 more) > 6 platforms = $1800 ($300 more) > All 7 platforms = $2000 ($200 more) > > Here’s the rounded off per platform/options pricing for each tier. > This looks like it makes slightly more sense than when it’s listed the > other way. > 1 platform = $300 > 2 platforms = $250 > 3 platforms = $300 > 4 platforms = $250 > 5 platforms = $300 > 6 platforms = $300 > All 7 platforms + the 2 add ons = $222 > > This issue was brought up previously by Sean Cole. Jacqueline Landman Gay > suggested that it might be tied to the popularity of specific platforms. > Here’s how she explained it. "The way I figure it, each platform is $300. > But since many of us build for the two major ones (Mac and Windows) you get > a $100 discount for that bundle. After that it's $300 each except for > 4 and 7 platforms, where there's also a discount.” Yes, apparently, but > why? The popular desktops/ mobile bundle? Why then are the add ons priced > the same? Is there really equivalent value there? Number 7 is obviously > discounted for a buy everything tier. That’s OK, I guess. > > The problem with Jacqueline’s explanation is that it doesn’t matter which > platforms or add ons you select, the same pricing pattern persists. I can > justify different prices for different platform deployments and different > options, but this inconsistent pattern could be hard to explain to > prospective users and business accountants to whom we have to justify > purchases. Jacqueline may be right about the reasons but these are “hidden” > bundle options based on an assumption of what the user is likely to want. > It also can make some combinations that are probably much harder to > justify/explain than others. > > While I can come up with some other explanations for this and a case could > be made that it has a lot of flexibility, I wonder if a more transparent > pricing/bundling/discount structure might be better. > > Any chance we can get some clarification on the rationale behind the > pricing to help us with our purchasing requests? > > > Tim Bleiler, Ph.D. > Instructional Designer, HSIT > University at Buffalo > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)
Without knowing anything other than "the IDE is like treacle" I loaded various stacks in Windows to see what the complaint could possibly be about. 8 seconds for IDE to start - no treacle on opening stacks 8 seconds to open Dictionary - no treacle on searching Dictionary (given it's loading 1000 pages of lightning-fast searchable text, I think 8 seconds isn't too bad). I generally open it once and don't shut it until I close LC. So I created a new stack and pasted 8000 lines of text into the Script Editor. Typing in the Editor then became treacley (but not on OS X). Switching off Edit/Options/live errors removed any speed degradation on typing. Assuming I've correctly identified where the issue is, the issue is not the IDE, the issue is doing something specific with large scripts inside the Script Editor. That may well be the issue that Mark Waddingham was discussing about sorting text. The Script editor doesn't slow down with 100s of lines. As for general weirdness with Windows. When Windows "anti-virus" scam kicks in every day, my laptop stops working (even trying to switch between apps is treacley). This is something MS have made almost impossible to disable (I haven't found a way), and I can't set the priority low. I just have to leave the laptop for an hour and go to do something else. Someone trying to save a file during this scan is likely to experience slow file saves. I've also seen Windows Update taking large amounts of RAM. These things are less noticeable on my Windows desktop. Regards, Bernard On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 5:15 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > It's worse than the unicode text issue. Saving stacks is from my setup 7 > to 8 times slower in Windows than on a Mac, and I have tried numerous > Windows configurations from bare metal to VMWare servers running on a > robust host. In discussions in the past, it seems there isn't a lot > Livecode can do about it. The issues are with Windows itself. At least that > was the upshot of the discussions. > > Bob S > > > > On Sep 3, 2021, at 06:56 , Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I was wondering this too: when Lagi mentioned 'fix the IDE' I thought > this might be a reference to some of a number of usabiity snags - it didn't > occur to me that it was just speed. > > > > I develop on a nine-year old MacBook and have never noticed a speed > issue with the IDE. I wonder if it's possible that the Windows IDE has been > affected by the same issue to do with manipulating quantities of text that > I've been talking about on the list, which Mark W has suggested might be > fixed in a release very shortly? (Seems unlikely!) But definitely seems to > be something platform specific. > > > > Lagi, if you're still able to access a 6.7 installer, could you confirm > whether the IDE under 6.7 has the same problem on your set up? The problems > with speed on Windows that I'm seeing came in after 6.7. > > > > Ben > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 12:13 AM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Another company's software I used for visual Foxpro and Delphi over the > years was > > https://www.chilkatsoft.com/ > > Look at all the languages they support and livecode isn't on there [...] > VB.NET, VB6, VBScript, Xbase++, xHarbour, Xojo > > The question is why Livecode isn't there? > > Lagi > The question is: have YOU lobbied chilkat to build an interface for Livecode? I did. I got no reply. But when I bought my chilkat license (some years before I lobbied them) something went wrong with the payment (my bank cancelled the payment as "suspicious"). I got the vilest email from a company I've ever had, accusing me of fraud and telling me how the developer would get his own back. His response is seared into my memory (I excused his awful behaviour by telling myself "hmm he must have had a significant number of people ripping him off with this software"). Despite his vile email, I arranged for payment with a different credit card. But when I didn't get a response from him re Livecode I decided I'd been too nice in excusing his bad behaviour. By contrast, every email I've ever sent to LC Ltd has resulted in a prompt and courteous reply. Perhaps if you spent as much time lobbying Chilkat as you spend denigrating LC Ltd you might find LC among the software supported by Chilkat? I doubt the developer of Chilkat would allow you on his forum to repeatedly denigrate him and his software, criticising his company for supporting Filemaker than implementing something you want. Once again, if "the opensource community", supposedly "the largest demographic", are not at least using their time to lobby e.g. Chilkat to provide a Livecode interface, then are they beneficial or are they just a drain? To date the only Livecode user we know who spent time to lobby Chilkat is also one of those who is not a free-loader but one who has been a license-payer for decades. What are the scores/hundreds of freeloaders doing with their time? Regards, Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
Actually I wasn't particularly addressing you. For one thing, I'll wager you've got hundreds of posts on the Forum. On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 7:09 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > My biggest "whine" is not the ending of the open source initiative - it's > the fact that OUR biggest competitors (XOJO and B4X) have non expiring > licences and at least a non time limited "trial" version. > > Xojo and B4X are not my competitors. I am not LC Ltd. If you think these technologies are so interchangeable I don't know why you're persisting with the one that runs "like treacle". I don't have a license for either of those Basics. And if you see them as "our competitors", why fund the competition. Very strange IMO. LC fits into my philosophy of software design at a specific location (I have never even tried to run it inside a webserver, there are better technologies for that). Your biggest whine is that the IDE "runs like treacle", even on beefy hardware. I asked for evidence of this, because in 20 years on non-beefy hardware I've never seen it. I'm still waiting to see what problem you've got. No-one else appears to recognize your complaint. > Calling people parasites because they want the open source to continue (but > with better differentiation) is not constructive. > People who wanted open source to continue had 8 years of opportunities. I used to muse every time Panos sent out an email with "easy fixes to the documentation" hmm, how many of those who contribute nothing financial to this project can even be bothered to spend some time fixing some documentation. Clearly most people wanted open source so they could spend their time and money on other things than supporting the technology with either finance or money. Within a couple of months of InterBase opening their source code and entirely new database project was born. Not so with Livecode. What word do you use for people who take and take for 8 years then have a hissy fit when they are told they aren't getting any more freebies because their freebies have just been a drain on resources. The starter system is easy (very easy). > LC is the business of LC Ltd. It's not your business. It's not my business. Please feel free to look back over my posts in the last 20 years to see where I've told them how to run their business. The one time I did contact Heather, was to draw her attention to one of the whining threads on the Forum, and to pull from it a trio of suggestions for improvement. But I did this in private rather than create lots of public whining with which to put off potential/actual users. > The future is the kids and the only way of capturing them is to make it > easy for them to send out a link to a program they wrote to friends and > family to show off what they did. > I very much doubt this. There are dozens of less impressive technologies than LC for kids to learn. "Worse is better", and all that. IMO the idea that we need to "think of the children" is a myth. I've seen this topic of Livecode and Education discussed for 20 years. As there are some on this list who have been around even longer than I, it seems like we should have an answer to this question: how many people have you encountered here or on the Forum who learned about LC through formal schooling (school or university) and are using it in later life? In my case it is zero. I cannot recollect anyone on this mailing list or on the Forum who has stated that this was their introduction to Livecode. If it turns out that there is no such person, then there's little point in LC Ltd worrying about the idea that this is a channel that brings in new long-term users (as those on the Forum claim). The only reason for providing any version aimed at those in education should be the money such a thing would bring in as an end in itself. > The biggest error livecode has made all these years is not creating a > "working" storefront that doesn't look like it has been totally given up > on. > *De gustibus non est disputandum. *I think there's very, very little wrong with Livecode.com. What is it that you have tried to do with their website that you couldn't do? Maybe you don't like the font, or the text, or the graphics, or whatever. But such generic criticism is of no help and is just barking at the moon. IMO the most important thing for them to add to the website is a few short (hi-res) videos showing some apps being developed in LC. That was one of the few *specific and constructive points* I made (in private) to Heather. Regards, Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 3:08 PM Kevin Miller via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > We have dabbled with a number of low cost /entry level offerings in the > past. There used to be a starter kit that allowed only a certain number of > lines of code per object. We had non-standalone building products e.g. > DreamCard/revMedia. None of these models have worked well for a long list > of reasons - indeed they caused huge issues for us. This problem is much > harder to solve than you might think. Will we continue to refine our entry > level offering? Yes definitely. Specific suggestions in this area are > welcome, particularly directly to me rather than on here. > Those of us who've been around since the days of Metacard knew this. It was precisely why I haven't chimed in with "what LC should do", because I know they've been prepared to evaluate so many different approaches. Many years ago the Ambassador from Fourthworld said: "it's their company to run, I concentrate on running my business". I tried weeks ago saying that to whiners on the forum, but it made no difference. Even after Kevin posted the remarks below days ago, they are still playing CEO (as Andre so pithily puts it). To those who were repeatedly whining I pointed out: we don't have the data that LC Ltd has, they know what has worked/failed, they know what marketing has worked/failed; and they have more interest in the success of LC than any of us customers have, so we should respect that and support them in it. Some of the whiners won't listen to reason. I got to the point where I gave up trying to debate these issues, for no sooner had I reasoned why some claim they'd made was wrong and a week later they were back making the same claim. It is annoying to see people who've never sold so much as a piece of fruit constantly running down the company whose products they use. LC is a very unusual development tool, virtually in a class of its own. Communicating this uniqueness (and why the unique properties are so important) to novices and even very experienced developers is a challenge. With Xojo or B4X you can say "this is a cross-platform relative of Visual Basic", and people who've had even a little programming experience in the past 30 years will understand what they are dealing with. These days I'd guess that 95% of Apple users don't even know the meaning of "Hypercard" or "Applescript". There's simply no frame of reference. Twenty years ago I gave a programming colleague a copy of The Hypercard Book and the Metacard starter kit. With book in hand she said she couldn't get her head around Metacard and gave up (and she'd been using RAD tools for a decade). I got her to try Revolution a year or two later, and she still couldn't understand it. She ended up becoming a Filemaker developer. I've come to the conclusion that the only option is videos that demonstrate apps being constructed, this might at least appeal at a superficial level. I can't think of another way to start to indicate what the tool is like. I think this might be worth some investment. In fact, in a discussion recently I cited the idea of a high quality video showing Andre's calculator example. I think I wrote to Heather about this some weeks ago. Regards, Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
Over on the Forum I've seen several of the whiners criticising the lifetime licenses - people who have paid a tiny fraction of what we've paid (if they've paid anything at all)! I suspect their baseless criticisms have cost more than any of the whiners have paid in license fees. If I ran the Forum the baseless whiners would be told to "stop whining or leave". I know of dozens of people banned from social media for things far less offensive than are said about LC Ltd on their own forum. I rarely delete emails and just went back through mine. I'd been a license payer for more than a decade before I got a lifetime offer. But I couldn't afford it until I got the offer again, some 5 years later. Even then the lifetime license cost me more than I'd paid in the previous 18 years combined, so I had to think hard about it (not sure if I will be around in 18 years). And though there were some years of future license banked in my LC account, I didn't quibble and say "can I have a discount for the years I've already paid in advance". I think if I had done that LC Ltd would have taken that into account, because that's how they roll. But to me it felt mean-spirited to ask for a discount. Which is why I think LC Ltd have been very magnanimous to those who say they can't afford a license. My self-respect wouldn't let me be one of those people. I have no expectation of LC Ltd listening to Dan's suggestion, as the one thing that stands out from watching Kevin for 20 years is that he does his utmost to be honourable. If the majority of those free-loaders had any honour, we wouldn't be having any of this discussion. I hoped that the open source initiative would have seen positive contributions, but that didn't happen. I'll come back in a year and see if they've even managed to compile the existing code. Regards, Bernard On Sun, Sep 5, 2021 at 5:16 PM Rick Harrison via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Dan, > > So you want the company to break more promises, even to the lifetimers? > > A lot of the lifetimers have spent a lot of money on licenses before > deciding to invest in lifetime licenses. I don’t think you want to be > ticking off what is probably the company's most loyal base. > It’s a recipe for disaster! > > Just my 2 cents for the day. > > Rick > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
I'm sure Kevin etc. doesn't share my view on this. But here it is. Get your popcorn. On Sun, Sep 5, 2021 at 2:56 PM Dan Brown via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > It can't be any more harmful than abruptly pulling the rug from under the > feet of your largest user demographic. If revenue is the root of livecodes > problems then I don't see why a small demographic of lifetimers is exempt > from an update in policy that seeks to increase the paying subscription > count Largest user demographic? Free-loaders who contributed no money but plenty of baseless whining? So many protest poverty but I'm 100% certain they spend more every year than the cost of an annual license fee on plenty of other things. Some of us paid for a license for years in order to fund something we believed in and wanted to see thrive, even though that meant having to forego stuff that the free-loaders would instead be spending their money on. FWIW my health problems have made it difficult for me to do any work that required keeping regular hours or even being able to keep appointments. Yet I'd bought licenses for 18 years before I bought a lifetime license (I still have unused licenses in my account, at one point in the last few years I had three concurrent licenses). When I hear "can't afford" I translate it into "I prioritise my spending differently". "If I don't make any financial contribution to LC Ltd I can get a new iPhone" - that kind of thing. I just sacrificed other things in order to keep supporting LC. When they had their free toys taken away the rampant hostility from the free-loaders shows what little value they brought. Some of those whining free-loaders have barely made 80 posts on the Forum in the past 8 years. Despite being a continuous license payer, despite my health problems, I freely gave hundreds of hours of help to people on the Forum. Some of them are saying "if LC Ltd had had a donate button, I'd have sent them some money". Yeah, right - contacting LC Ltd and asking how they could contribute financially was beyond their abilities. In 25 years on the internet, I've never before seen such a collection of valueless people as these whiners (they wouldn't be tolerated in any other business or open source community). Most of the users of the Community edition are of so little value that they can't even be bothered to take part in the Forum and provide support to other users! When I look at the whiners compared to how few posts they even made on the Forum, I'm filled with disgust. Have they no shame? They contribute neither time nor money. It's simple. Those who aren't parasites will decide to start contributing financially. Those who are parasites will go away, and live off some other community - and the absence of parasites will be beneficial. If just one of those who isn't a parasite takes out a standard license it will take him nearly 20 years to contribute as much financially as I have _since_ the "community" edition was launched. People like me could have simply stopped paying and used "the free edition" too, and this situation would have come about much sooner. If it turns out all of those who used the Community edition were parasites, what has LC Ltd lost if they vanish? Parasite might sound like a strong word, but what word do you use for someone who takes, takes, takes but never gives back, contributing nothing else than to make an organism weaker? ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>> But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running on a 16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7 processor and it STILL runs like treacle. << As I don't recognize this experience can you put a video of your experience on the cloud? I don't run on hardware anything like as beefy as you have. The only machine I've got where LC is slow is one where Windows itself is really slow (a 4yo laptop). On my two Apple machines (M1 and Intel, the latter is 5yo) it is not "like treacle", neither is it slow on my i5 Windows machine. It's a bit hard for LC Ltd to identify and fix something if it's only found in some odd cases. Regards, Bernard On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 10:34 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Trials of 14 days or even 30 days are a waste of time. I can install > something and use it for a couple of days - then life / work gets in the > way > so It sits on the computer for 31 days and then times out. > > You then have to waste your time and the companies to get an extension, > and by the time they answer > you get cheesed off and remove the program. > > The BEST trial is the one that lasts for 30 actual executions or 6 months > (whichever comes first). > > This stops the clever SOD who decides to keep it running without exiting > for 6 months but it times out anyway. > Even better if he keeps it on for 2 days it counts as "executing" twice so > it will last 30 days. > > This means I have 30 days over a 6 month period to really test it without > rushing. > > The people who would game the system are the people who won't be loyal > customer anyway, so not giving a worthwhile trial period handicaps those > who want to give it a good try. > > You can also put a nag screen at the start of any executable with an OK > button link to a special discounted price - free marketing (what a > brilliant Idea, why didn't I think of it?). > > But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running on a > 16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7 processor and it STILL runs like > treacle. > > If I downloaded it today as a new person it would be off my machine in less > than 30 minutes. > > You could also use this as your "marketing" system by "giving it away" to > schools for nothing and without the trial period but the nag screen. > > It can then be used by the students to learn programming at no cost - and > some of the students parent might pony up for a paid for version at a > student price (with no expiring standalones of cours - the most stupid idea > of the lot so far) > > > Anyway Kevin, have I/we wastedour time again putting out these cranky, > stupid and not workable suggestions?. > > Lagi > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2 Sept 2021 at 15:55, Kevin Miller via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > We *are* considering the length of the trial actively, we may well give a > > longer trial a shot at some point. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Kevin > > > > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > > LiveCode: Develop Yourself > > > > On 02/09/2021, 15:51, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via > > use-livecode" > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > True, true. > > > > There could be a small group of programmers that pass a stack around > > but you would not be able to convince/teach a civilian to install a > > programming IDE and explain how to run the stack along with any other > > supporting files, SW or plug-ins... Mobile would be a non-starter. I > would > > not dismiss this out-of-hand. A 90 day free IDE could also be an option. > > > > Ralph DiMola > > IT Director > > Evergreen Information Services > > rdim...@evergreeninfo.net > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On > > Behalf Of Kevin Miller via use-livecode > > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 10:31 AM > > To: How to use LiveCode > > Cc: Kevin Miller; Michael Kristensen > > Subject: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition > > > > Thanks for the constructive suggestion. Unfortunately with a free > > non-app building version, everyone who needs to run an app can just > > download that. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Kevin > > > > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > > LiveCode: Develop Yourself > > > > On 02/09/2021, 14:49, "use-livecode on behalf of Michael Kristensen > > via use-livecode" > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Hi there > > > > I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition > > > > That would be for personal use, and to learn coding. > > > > Michael > > > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >
Re: Sorting text is *VERY* slow in LC9 on Windows (Re: Accumulating text is *VERY* slow in LC9 on Windows)
Whilst waiting for a fix, would a temporary solution be to use sqlite to create an in-memory database and let sqlite do the sorting for you? Regards, Bernard. On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 8:23 PM Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Thanks to Mark Waddingham's advice about using a buffer var when > accumulating > a large text variabel in stages, I've now got a script that took 8 hours > under > LC9, and (8 minutes under LC6) down by stages to just under 1 hour under > LC9. > > However I have some remaining issues not amenable to this approach; of > which > the most significant relates to the sort command. > > In all cases it seems to take much longer under LC9 than it did under LC6; > although the factor is quite variable. The most dramatic is one instance, > in > which this statement: > > sort lines of tNewTable by item iSortCol of each > > takes 35 minutes to execute. `tNewTable` is a variable consisting of some > 223,000 lines of text; approx 70MB. The exact same statement with the same > data on the same computer in LC6 takes just 1 second. > > Has anyone else noticed something of this sort? As I said, the effect > varies: > e.g. 54 seconds versus 1 second; 22 seconds versus 1 second. So it may not > be > so noticeable in all cases. > > TIA, > > Ben > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: LiveCode community edition is gone
>> I can understand why there are users who feel betrayed by the company especially with the new pricing structure, and the discontinuance of support for the Community version which was even paid for in a marketing campaign in advance of it’s release. << The vast majority of the money contributed to the Kickstarter received a commercial license in the days after the Kickstarter closed. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28379192 I've contributed to other very high profile projects, where within a year or so of completion the vendors lost interest in the project and discontinued it and my _installed_ copy stopped working. No answer from customer support, the company had the money and just moved on. No-one who contributed to the Kickstarter received that kind of treatment from LC Ltd. >> It can seem that the company keeps increasing it’s prices while taking away functionality by forcing users to select which specific platforms to be able to deploy to. That seems to go against the idea of coding once and being able to deploy to all platforms in one affordable package. << LC deploying to 3 platforms is still cheaper now than Revolution Enterprise was 15 years ago. >> Access to the Community version is still very important as that is how many users were first introduced to LiveCode who then became paying customers. I believe the try it before buying model is still very important for helping users to make the purchase decision. << "... who then became paying customers..." If that was true I don't think LC Ltd would have felt the need to terminate the free offering. There are lots of people who have admitted that they didn't see the point in paying for a license when the free version could do 99% of what the licensed version could do. The tragedy is that many people are too selfish to see the bigger picture. I know dozens of parents who spend far more on the mobile phone contracts for their children than the LC starter license costs. Those parents know they can't get a free phone for their kids so they pay up. On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 5:14 PM Rick Harrison via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > On Sep 1, 2021, at 11:44 AM, Dan Brown via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > That's a bit harsh, are you forgetting the amount of money that was > > contributed by users to the fund raisers over the years? > $600k > > > > > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Licensing model change
I see that some of "the community" have now uploaded dozens of the installers from the old Livecode page to archive.org. https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22LiveCode%2C+Inc.%22 I don't know what LC Ltd's thinking was in deleting the old pages, but clearly some of "the community" are doing all they can to thwart LC Ltd. The tragedy of the commons. On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 11:49 PM doc hawk via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Kevin kayaked, > >Look what happened to Open Office. It died because no one wanted to work > on it. > > ??? > > The bulk of the developers bolted and formed LibreOffice from the OO > codebase. It’s alive and well--I just downloaded a new version this > morning. > > It isn’t that OO faded or died, but that no-one liked the new overlords > when Oracle acquired Sun. The project itself is thriving under the new > name. > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bye, and thanks for the fish
Hi Kevin I've read your various interactions with people here and on the forum and I think you're handling this superbly In the last 5 years my house insurance has doubled in price (the house has remained the same size and the insurance offers no more features). At no point has my insurance company said "contact us if you can't afford this and we'll work something out". Regards, On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 10:34 AM Kevin Miller via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > What she said. Get in touch and I'm sure we can work something out. > > Kind regards, > > Kevin > > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Develop Yourself > > On 02/09/2021, 04:36, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via > use-livecode" use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > This situation is the kind of thing that Kevin encourages you to > contact > support about. He's said he doesn't want to lose anyone. > > It's true that open source has made things difficult for the company, > but > they also value the folks who have stood by them all this time. Please > do > write to Heather. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 1, 2021 7:54:16 PM Neville Smythe via use-livecode > wrote: > > >> On 1 Sep 2021, at 11:36 pm, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com > wrote: > >> > >> i am not sure, if everyone is aware of it, but standalones that > were > >> created with the Starter Plan license will expire as soon as the > Startert > >> Plan subscription expires. > > > > Not even Apple is that rapacious. > > > > I used to have a commercial licence back when I was selling stuff > (although > > the economics of software never made sense). Since retiring I have > been > > “freeloading" with the Community edition as a hobbyist, my only LC > uses > > being for personal use, and maintaining admin and operating software > I > > wrote for a not-for-profit sporting organisation, and occasionally > > contributing bug reports. I can well understand the need for LC to > move to > > a profitable basis, and I would be happy buy a plan if it made sense > for > > our use, but there is no way my NFP association can afford US$1000 > every > > year - or even one year (we would use 3 platforms, and not even the > Server > > is thrown in with the desktop platforms). And a Starter Kit that > means the > > app would stop working when I pass on (I have been around since > Hypercard > > day 1) is an insult. Seems to me the hobbyist use of LC has come to > an end. > > A great pity, but I guess times move on. > > > > I have greatly enjoyed being part of this (mostly) friendly and > generous > > community for many years. > > > > Neville Smythe > > > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Bye, and thanks for the fish
Over on the forum Kevin has been encouraging people to contact support with any issues. Some are refusing to do so, making ridiculous demands in response. Yesterday I had a look at the historical prices to see if LC was significantly more expensive than Metacard: 2001 - Metacard ($995) [$288] 2005 - Revolution Enterprise (£899) [£243] 2021 - Livecode (3x distro platforms £720) [£1316] In square brackets behind each is [the price of an ounce of gold] (if someone's got a better comparator, they can post it e.g. crude oil, pork bellies, cost of an entry level Mac, etc). So Metacard cost 3 ounces of gold, Rev Enterprise cost 3.7 oz of gold, today's Livecode equivalent costs 0.54 oz of gold. Even if one adds all 7 of the distro platforms (3 of which certainly didn't exist in 2005), a full Livecode license costs just over 1oz of gold, so between 1/3rd of the price of 15 years ago (or as little as 1/6th the price of Metacard). Objectively speaking, the customer today gets so much more for so much less. Apart from those who have been used to getting something for free. It was only this time last year I stated how amazing it was that Livecode manages all the complexity of producing software that runs on so many divergent platforms (I was navigating the version compatibilities of Xcode, Android Studio, MacOS, iOS, AndroidOS, Windows OS, and Livecode), not to mention producing two different versions of Livecode (free and commercial). Something had to give. Regards, Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: LiveCode community edition is gone
The vast majority of those who contributed to the Kickstarter were rewarded with something other than the free product. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28379192 I suggest you go read the comments on the Forum and see who is being harsh. LC Ltd made a change that is within their rights to keep LC going - some of the same people complaining about the new licensing costs are also people who repeatedly allege "LC Ltd is financially on the ropes". Others are on the Forum repeatedly telling people to jump ship to alternative tools, and were doing this for months before this licensing change was made. I'm pretty sure most people have more money lost on unused minutes on their mobile phone contract than it would cost to buy a license to fund LC development. On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 4:47 PM Dan Brown via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > "I can only assume > many of them used LC simply because it was free of charge, disliking that > doing so in future will entail them making some contribution to the cost of > progress." > > That's a bit harsh, are you forgetting the amount of money that was > contributed by users to the fund raisers over the years? > $600k > > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: LiveCode community edition is gone
FWIW over on the forums the sentiment seems to be mostly hostile to these changes. Many are talking of collecting and hosting past "community" installers to get around these changes by LC Ltd, others talking of jumping ship. Over there the attitude is "the sky is falling". I can only assume many of them used LC simply because it was free of charge, disliking that doing so in future will entail them making some contribution to the cost of progress. Regards, Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: LiveCode Community - anyone up for maintaining the community edition?
I'll refer again to the Firebird project. One of the ways they were able to build on this opensource project was that as a community they employed and funded programmers (mostly in Russia, if memory serves) to add the features the community wanted. So one way or another FOSS projects end up requiring payment. There are other FOSS projects where the developers of the project end up getting fame because of it, leading to them being head-hunted as a team, leaving the project languishing as the developers all go off to be employees of Twitter, etc. In other projects the developers get employed as consultants in implementations of the project in corporate environments. I look on payment to Livecode Ltd as payment to protect me from low-level languages. With that mentality the idea of contributing to the C source code is the opposite of what I want. I suspect most LC users have this mentality. Regards Bernard. On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 1:28 PM Andre Garzia via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > People had eight years to contribute to the community edition, and they > didn't. I don't think people would now start caring for and devoting the > necessary energy to maintain the community edition. It is because people > didn't organise and contribute that this recent change happened. > > On Wed, 1 Sept 2021 at 12:56, David Bovill via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Here are my thoughts on this - and a request. > > > > Yes - it’s not a surprising move by Livecode Ltd - they were clearly > > struggling supporting the community aspect and taking the language to the > > next level and they need more revenue to do that. > > > > The question is (for my part at least) - what to do about this. > Personally > > I have never seen a future for a closed source language, and the > projects I > > work on will not fund. Projects developed in closed source - especially > by > > a small company. So I have a choice, switch language, or look to continue > > with developing with the community edition and help build an open source > > community around that. The former (switching languages) is relatively > easy, > > the latter a lot of work. > > > > I’m happy to have a company like Livecode Ltd create closed source > > products that I can use, so how to have both an open source language, > and > > the ability to work with closed source products developed by Livecode > Ltd? > > As I see it the only option is for those interested in the community to > > take control and responsibility for the core language. > > > > There are a number of options with regard to future language development, > > that would put the language on an even par with other open source > > languages, and there are also new ways to finance such initiatives. It > > would be valuable to get together as a community and discuss those. > > > > How about having a community conference to look at what is possible? We > > can do this online and showcase new and existing open source projects and > > discuss the opportunities this new environment presents? > > > > > > 📆Schedule a call with me > > On 1 Sep 2021, 12:18 +0100, David V Glasgow via use-livecode < > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>, wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On 1 Sep 2021, at 11:26 am, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode < > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > There you had a group of programmers who supposedly loved what > > > > HyperCard could do, but they only loved that concept as a historical > > > > artefact, not as a tool available to people now. > > > > > > Abso-frogging-lutely. > > > > > > The really interesting questions are “why?" and “Is there anything we > > could do about it?” > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes, > > > > > > David Glasgow > > > Consultant Forensic & Clinical Psychologist > > > Carlton Glasgow Partnership > > > Director, Child & Family Training, York > > > Honorary Professor > > > Sexual Offences, Crime and Misconduct Research Unit > > > Nottingham Trent University > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > ___ > > use-livecode ma
Re: LiveCode community edition is gone
I can't say this surprises me. I didn't expect the open source offering to do anything but cut into the bottom line. But certainty isn't achieved until something is tried and actual results obtained. One of the good things about having the code source was that there have been times when I've wanted to suggest an enhancement and could look through the code myself to see what would be required to bring it about. If it required only a small change I could make that suggestion and the enhancement was easy to make. Over the years I've watched on general programming forums as whenever HyperCard was brought up there was gushing praise for what it was. Whenever someone then posted about LiveCode in this context, the gushing praise turned to irrational hostility. Pointing out that LC was cross-platform beyond their wildest dreams, massively more capable than HyperCard, and free to use made no difference to their irrational hostility -- better was worse. There you had a group of programmers who supposedly loved what HyperCard could do, but they only loved that concept as a historical artefact, not as a tool available to people now. No wonder none of them got interested in the open source code. Ironically the LC source can remain up on Github and as the past 8 years have shown it's exceedingly unlikely that the advocates of open source will take it and run with it. This can be contrasted with, for example, what happened with the InterBase database - in the rage for open source some 20 years ago Borland put up the code for InterBase, but within a couple of days changed their mind and took down the source code. But by then the source had been downloaded and became the Firebird database. The closed source InterBase is still for sale, even though Firebird ended up being completely re-written based on the code released 20 years ago. Someone posted this announcement by LC to news.ycombinator.com. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28370865 LC got less hostility from this announcement than from when LC would be mentioned in the past as an open source version of HyperCard. At the end of the day, if not enough funds go into LC Ltd then both the closed source and open source products would disappear - the past 8 years have shown us there is very little interest in people contributing to the source. It's chalk and cheese when compared with InterBase/Firebird. After 8 years there simply aren't enough low-level programmers who have any interest in a version of HyperCard for the 21st century. I could have switched to using the open source version of LC 8 years ago, but I continued to pay for a license because I understood that bills have to be paid or Livecode disappears. Regards, Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: forum login playing up
On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 6:49 PM Klaus major-k via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > I check EVERY mail I receive! :-) > > But this is nothing I could fix, Heather needs to address this, so write > to: > supp...@livecode.com > > > Regards, Bernard > > Best > > Klaus > > Thanks, Klaus. I'll contact Heather. I assumed my emails were going to spam as I sent you an email a few weeks ago but got no reply. Maybe you just thought the suggestions were bad ideas :)) Regards, Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
forum login playing up
For days I've been having trouble logging in. Even if I choose "I forgot my password" and paste in the new long password the Forum emails to me, I can't log in with it. I was able to login the first time it did this, but as soon as I changed my password I was logged out and couldn't login again. Twice more I got it to send me a new password. It wouldn't let me login with it. Then I got a message on the login page saying "... you now also have to solve the CAPTCHA below" and there's no CAPTCHA. I've tried this cycle on two different browsers (Firefox and Safari), and no CAPTCHA is displayed on either browser. Even worse, there's no indication on the Forum of how to contact the Forum admins to tell them about such problems. Does anyone know who to contact? I'd email Klaus, but I think my emails to him go to spam. Regards, Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: httpd library
Hi Andre It was probably 15 years ago when you said "I want to build a http daemon in Revolution". You were a young man :) BTW I've started using your dblibrary recently. If I pay for a license, will you get the money? Can you provide a link for where to make the payment? Regards, Bernard > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: httpd library
Hi Rick Normally I'd agree with you (ever since Andre piped-up as a young man saying he was building a webserver in Livecode, I've thought "just use one of the many available webservers..") However this user wants this running on a mobile device. So he either gives up that idea or he starts going down the path of httpd.mc or Andre's webserver. I was just trying to save him all the work that other's have done before. Regards, Bernard On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 4:42 PM Rick Harrison via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Bernard, > > The user should set up an LC Web Server with a database connected to it. > > The LC Apps should all then send information to the LC Server, and the > Server > will send information back to the LC Apps. > > I think any other way is going to be a huge waste of time and energy. > > Good luck, > > Rick > > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
httpd library
Hi all Over on the forum someone has run into what appear to be limitations of LC's included httpd library. I remember over the years seeing that various people implemented something like this (Andre comes to mind). The forum user wants to be able to run a LC app on a mobile device within a LAN and have others POST binary data to the LC app via HTTP. Rather then tell him "you can build your own" I thought I'd ask if anyone knew the whereabouts of any of the other httpd implementations. Regards Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Java FFI on Windows
In the Extending Livecode part of the Dictionary it says: *"Java bindings are currently supported on Android, Mac and Linux."* I am at a loss to understand why Java extensions are supported on Mac and Linux but *not* on Windows. I've seen no explanation for this anywhere. Can someone enlighten me? I'd understand why Objective C extensions would not work on Windows, but Java? Can extensions on Windows *only* be written in C? Regards Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: open secure socket... using certificate
Hi Richard The idea of client certificates was why I was looking for this feature for the past 15 years. I know that PKI is complex but it is important (which is why browsers implemented it decades ago). Even tsNet behaves very differently on Windows and OS X when it comes to server certificates (looks to me that Microsoft is mis-implementing their libcurl/schannel interface, but I guess it stung them 20 years ago when they hadn't implemented Certificate Revocation Lists). Without LC having client certificates the only option I face is moving to another tool. Even the idea of implementing real secure sockets in a FFI external would be a huge amount of work for any of us users (as there is not even a single lower level language which we could rely on in each platform, so we'd be implementing a complex security layer and learning how to do it in several different languages). I'm going to look at moving to Xojo. Their docs say they implemented secure sockets with certificates in 2006. Their Android deployment platform is close to completion. It really would have been better for LC to have removed those claims from the Dictionary back in 2014, as then I'd have seen in recent years it still hadn't been implemented and would have looked at another tool months ago rather than get to this point and realise I'd wasted a lot of time. I've spent an entire week now just pondering on the options on how I can move forward. Regards, Bernard On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 4:12 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Thank you, Bernard. In bringing myself up to speed on this, once I > stumbled across the phrase "two-way SSL" I was able to find much good > reading about it. > > I just added Comment #11 to the bug report on this: > > The range of services requiring two-way SSL is increasing, > and with IoT the scope of use cases is multiplying. > > Where required, I don't see an opportunity for a scripted > workaround, so in those cases the only alternative is to > leave LC for a tool that supports two-way SSL. > > This would seem a good time to bite the bullet on this > implementation. What would be required to make it happen? > > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13410#c11 > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: open secure socket... using certificate
Hi Richard, it's client side. The project is a messaging app, principally for mobile. SSL/TLS certificates issued with client software enable servers to know that the connection is allowed at a network level before any user authentication. In the early stages of development it was simple enough for a LC messaging server to dismiss connections which didn't come from an accepted client and didn't meet the specification. Once I moved to an industry standard server then the connections have to be encrypted with certificates at both ends. Regards, Bernard On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 4:44 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Bernard Devlin wrote: > > > I feel like a sucker. I started on this project a few months ago on > > the assumption that socket certificates now worked as they'd been > > included in the Dictionary for years. I was away from development for > > a few years and hadn't noticed the complaints that the Dictionary was > > misrepresenting the situation. > > Is this specific to the server "accept" not supporting SSL, or something > client-side? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: open secure socket... using certificate
Hi Tom You shouldn't get any hopes up. I'd commented in the bug report in 2014 that this was something that we'd been told was coming back in the days of LC version 2. I think when a development environment has failed to deliver a feature from version 2 to version 10 that thing is never going to appear. On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 9:22 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > super happy to see this, hopefully it will when i need it. > Going to look this up. > Wondering if it will be super hard to create certificate and make it work > on localhost sockets. > > > On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 2:26 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > “Using tCertificate and tKey” compiles but I don’t know how to test. It > > does seem like the parser doesn’t recognize those keywords. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On Jan 26, 2021, at 2:13 PM, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode < > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for the suggestion Erik, but I don't see from that how one > > specifies > > > the certificate. > > > > > > Regards, Bernard > > > > > >> On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 6:03 PM Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode < > > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > >> > > >> Maybe this: > > >> > > >> secure socket "livecode.com:443" > > >> > > >> Examples: > > >> > > >> https://livecode.fandom.com/wiki/Secure_socket > > >> > > >> -Original Message- > > >> From: use-livecode On Behalf > Of > > >> Bernard Devlin via use-livecode > > >> Sent: dinsdag 26 januari 2021 16:40 > > >> To: How to use LiveCode > > >> Cc: Bernard Devlin > > >> Subject: Re: open secure socket... using certificate > > >> > > >> I did. I tried these too: > > >> > > >> *open* *secure* socket to "localhost:443" using certificate tc and > key > > tk > > >> > > >> *open* *secure* socket to "localhost:443" without verification using > > >> certificate tc and key tk > > >> > > >> When the above lines are entered in the script editor they are flagged > > as > > >> being syntax errors. In both cases it is what comes after > "certificate" > > >> that is flagged as a syntax error (flagged as: missing "," near "tc"). > > >> There seems to be no combination of command options that works with > > >> certificates. > > >> > > >> The fact that the Dictionary has zero information about what is > expected > > >> for certificate/key was not a good sign, which is why I searched the > > >> archive. I just went to have a look at the code on Github and I can > > seen > > >> nothing to suggest that "using certificate and key" is implemented. > > >> > > >> The server and client certificate are working in a browser, so the > > problem > > >> is definitely on the LC side. > > >> > > >> On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 2:34 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Did you try with “and key tKey”... it does not look like that part is > > >>> optional. > > >>> > > >>> Sent from my iPhone > > >>> > > >>>> On Jan 26, 2021, at 9:07 AM, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode < > > >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> According to the Dictionary in LC 9.5.1 there is this command: > > >>>> > > >>>> open secure socket [from [localHostName][:localPort]] [to] socketID > > >>>> [with message callbackMessage] [without verification] *[using > > >>>> certificate certificate and key key]* > > >>>> > > >>>> However I can't get it to work. > > >>>> > > >>>> open secure socket to "localhost:443" using certificate > > >>>> > > >>>> throws a runtime error "no handler: using" > > >>>> > > >>>> If I use > > >>>> > > >>>> open secure socket to "localhost:443" > > >>>> > > >>>&g
Re: open secure socket... using certificate
Thanks for confirming it Mark. I feel like a sucker. I started on this project a few months ago on the assumption that socket certificates now worked as they'd been included in the Dictionary for years. I was away from development for a few years and hadn't noticed the complaints that the Dictionary was misrepresenting the situation. Depressing to see my own name in that bug report from 7 years ago, pointing out that secure sockets with certificates was something that we'd been told was on the horizon in LC version 2, which must have been around 2004. https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13410 Regards, Bernard On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 12:57 AM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 1/26/21 6:05 AM, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode wrote: > > > Is it really the case that for the past 6 years LC documentation has been > > misleading people concerning the implementation of certificates for > secure > > socket connections? > > Sadly, yes. > > > > > I notice in the Dictionary the entry for "open socket" in the table of > > options for this command has entries for "certificate" and "key", but > these > > are both empty. As if these features were meant to be implemented but > were > > never implemented and the Dictionary was never updated to remove this > > misleading information. > > > > I just find that hard to believe. > > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13410 > > although the earliest bug report seems to be from 2006: > > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3737 > > -- > Mark Wieder > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: open secure socket... using certificate
Thanks for the suggestion Erik, but I don't see from that how one specifies the certificate. Regards, Bernard On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 6:03 PM Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Maybe this: > > secure socket "livecode.com:443" > > Examples: > > https://livecode.fandom.com/wiki/Secure_socket > > -Original Message----- > From: use-livecode On Behalf Of > Bernard Devlin via use-livecode > Sent: dinsdag 26 januari 2021 16:40 > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Bernard Devlin > Subject: Re: open secure socket... using certificate > > I did. I tried these too: > > *open* *secure* socket to "localhost:443" using certificate tc and key tk > > *open* *secure* socket to "localhost:443" without verification using > certificate tc and key tk > > When the above lines are entered in the script editor they are flagged as > being syntax errors. In both cases it is what comes after "certificate" > that is flagged as a syntax error (flagged as: missing "," near "tc"). > There seems to be no combination of command options that works with > certificates. > > The fact that the Dictionary has zero information about what is expected > for certificate/key was not a good sign, which is why I searched the > archive. I just went to have a look at the code on Github and I can seen > nothing to suggest that "using certificate and key" is implemented. > > The server and client certificate are working in a browser, so the problem > is definitely on the LC side. > > On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 2:34 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Did you try with “and key tKey”... it does not look like that part is > > optional. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On Jan 26, 2021, at 9:07 AM, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode < > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > According to the Dictionary in LC 9.5.1 there is this command: > > > > > > open secure socket [from [localHostName][:localPort]] [to] socketID > > > [with message callbackMessage] [without verification] *[using > > > certificate certificate and key key]* > > > > > > However I can't get it to work. > > > > > > open secure socket to "localhost:443" using certificate > > > > > > throws a runtime error "no handler: using" > > > > > > If I use > > > > > > open secure socket to "localhost:443" > > > > > > I get a socket connection, but all the security of a client > > > certificate does not work > > > > > > > > > This causes a syntax error in the IDE: > > > > > > open secure socket to "localhost:443" using certificate tName > > > > > > Looking through the archives I see that a couple of discussions > > > where people were asking about this variant of the "open socket" > > > command 5 to 6 years ago, *saying that the "certificate" part has > > > not been implemented*, regardless of what the Dictionary says. > > > > > > Is it really the case that for the past 6 years LC documentation has > > > been misleading people concerning the implementation of certificates > > > for > > secure > > > socket connections? > > > > > > I notice in the Dictionary the entry for "open socket" in the table > > > of options for this command has entries for "certificate" and "key", > > > but > > these > > > are both empty. As if these features were meant to be implemented > > > but > > were > > > never implemented and the Dictionary was never updated to remove > > > this misleading information. > > > > > > I just find that hard to believe. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Bernard > > > ___ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: open secure socket... using certificate
I did. I tried these too: *open* *secure* socket to "localhost:443" using certificate tc and key tk *open* *secure* socket to "localhost:443" without verification using certificate tc and key tk When the above lines are entered in the script editor they are flagged as being syntax errors. In both cases it is what comes after "certificate" that is flagged as a syntax error (flagged as: missing "," near "tc"). There seems to be no combination of command options that works with certificates. The fact that the Dictionary has zero information about what is expected for certificate/key was not a good sign, which is why I searched the archive. I just went to have a look at the code on Github and I can seen nothing to suggest that "using certificate and key" is implemented. The server and client certificate are working in a browser, so the problem is definitely on the LC side. On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 2:34 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Did you try with “and key tKey”... it does not look like that part is > optional. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jan 26, 2021, at 9:07 AM, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > According to the Dictionary in LC 9.5.1 there is this command: > > > > open secure socket [from [localHostName][:localPort]] [to] socketID [with > > message callbackMessage] [without verification] *[using certificate > > certificate and key key]* > > > > However I can't get it to work. > > > > open secure socket to "localhost:443" using certificate > > > > throws a runtime error "no handler: using" > > > > If I use > > > > open secure socket to "localhost:443" > > > > I get a socket connection, but all the security of a client certificate > > does not work > > > > > > This causes a syntax error in the IDE: > > > > open secure socket to "localhost:443" using certificate tName > > > > Looking through the archives I see that a couple of discussions where > > people were asking about this variant of the "open socket" command 5 to 6 > > years ago, *saying that the "certificate" part has not been implemented*, > > regardless of what the Dictionary says. > > > > Is it really the case that for the past 6 years LC documentation has been > > misleading people concerning the implementation of certificates for > secure > > socket connections? > > > > I notice in the Dictionary the entry for "open socket" in the table of > > options for this command has entries for "certificate" and "key", but > these > > are both empty. As if these features were meant to be implemented but > were > > never implemented and the Dictionary was never updated to remove this > > misleading information. > > > > I just find that hard to believe. > > > > Regards > > > > Bernard > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
open secure socket... using certificate
According to the Dictionary in LC 9.5.1 there is this command: open secure socket [from [localHostName][:localPort]] [to] socketID [with message callbackMessage] [without verification] *[using certificate certificate and key key]* However I can't get it to work. open secure socket to "localhost:443" using certificate throws a runtime error "no handler: using" If I use open secure socket to "localhost:443" I get a socket connection, but all the security of a client certificate does not work This causes a syntax error in the IDE: open secure socket to "localhost:443" using certificate tName Looking through the archives I see that a couple of discussions where people were asking about this variant of the "open socket" command 5 to 6 years ago, *saying that the "certificate" part has not been implemented*, regardless of what the Dictionary says. Is it really the case that for the past 6 years LC documentation has been misleading people concerning the implementation of certificates for secure socket connections? I notice in the Dictionary the entry for "open socket" in the table of options for this command has entries for "certificate" and "key", but these are both empty. As if these features were meant to be implemented but were never implemented and the Dictionary was never updated to remove this misleading information. I just find that hard to believe. Regards Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: opened socket in IDE prevents script changes
Hi Bernd Thanks for the suggestion. But I think the evidence points away from this. One thing I've done is - change the script (could be just addition of a comment) - copy entire script - apply & close - re-open script editor --> *change is missing* - close IDE - re-open LC - open stack script in editor - delete entire script - paste script from clipboard - apply & close - re-open script editor --> *change is now there* As soon as I open a socket, back to the situation that where script changed, apply etc. does not take. And closing all sockets does not work (although there is always one socket left open, which I believe is a socket the IDE creates in the background). I'm working on the assumption that it's something to do with the way I'm reading/writing to the socket. It's definitely strange. But if I can get to the bottom of this it will help others. The weird thing is that everything is working with the socket communications, no script or runtime errors thrown by LC, yet this working app breaks the IDE in the sense that LC is no longer a dynamic scripting environment (for me anyway). It's important to get to the bottom of this as it makes LC look bad, especially the numerous crashes, which all seem to be related to setting breakpoints in the script editor to try and get to the bottom of what was not working. At least on OSX I'm getting crash logs in the console. Strangely the crash errors are not all the same. Regards Bernard On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 5:28 PM Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Bernard, > > I have seen similar behavior of the apply button indicating "clean" when > the script was "dirty"/had compile errors. That was without sockets. > > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22555 > > maybe your problem is related > > Kind regards > Bernd > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: opened socket in IDE prevents script changes
Hi Alex - no plugins using sockets - Business 9.6.1 - no other debuggers/editors in use or used (I have crashed/restarted LC a few dozen times today) - no remote debugging This is just a plain old stack, only a mouseup in a button, everything else in the stack script. I'm going to have to look back at my previous socket project to see what I was doing there that was different. It seems to me that this is what is going on: LC loads the script & the socket interaaction makes it impossible for any script change to be applied. Feels like the engine is simply not "letting go" in order to reload the script. Very peculiar, as I would expect that closing each of the open sockets would release whatever was bound and stopping the script changes from being applied. Thanks for testing & showing that it's something idiosyncratic to me. Regards, Bernard On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 4:59 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > On 15/01/2021 15:30, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode wrote: > > I'm seeing exactly the same range of behaviours I described earlier for > > 9.5.1 on Win 10 but with 9.6.1 on OS X. > > > > It's very strange that Alex is also editing scripts with sockets > > opened/closed but not losing changes made in the script editor. I also > had > > 3 crashes on OS X within 30 minutes of working on this stack. > > > > Alex, are you using the IDE's script editor or some external editor? If > > you are using that script editor, once you've opened a socket could you > add > > a comment to your stack script, apply, close the script editor, then edit > > the script again to see if the comment has persisted? I have to quit LC > to > > make any changes to a stack once I've opened a socket. > > Yes, I'm using standard IDE script editor. > > The added comment persists, both through "apply - close - reopen" and > "apply - save stack - close editor - reopen", and to stack and card > scripts. > > > It seems to me that once a socket has been opened that the IDE is no > longer > > persisting changes. I'm pretty sure I didn't see this behaviour on my > > previous project using sockets. > > Have to ask > > - do you have any plugins that might use sockets ? > > - I'm using Indy version - let me know if you're on Community / > Business and I can try that too >I think :-) > > - do you, or have you, used other editors / debuggers that might > affect this ? > > - do you, or have you, used remote debugging ? > > That's all the straws I can think of for now. > > Alex. > > > Regards > > Bernard > > > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 12:21 PM Bernard Devlin > wrote: > > > >> Thanks Alex for your quick response. > >> > >> I'll try with 9.6.1 on Mac. The only other difference between us is > that > >> my sockets are interacting with a process outside of LC. But I can't see > >> why that would make a difference (particularly once I've closed all > >> sockets, I wouldn't expect sockets to interfere with scripts being > >> changed). > >> > >> Regards, > >> Bernard > >> > >> On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 12:07 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I've not seen any such problems - though with 9.6.1 / Mac. > >>> > >>> I've spent most of the last week in the IDE, with two or more stacks > >>> open (one server, one client - occasionally multiple client stacks) so > I > >>> have multiple open sockets (both 'accept'ing and 'open'ed) almost all > >>> the time, and had no problems with IDE or script editor. > >>> > >>> (I know - that's no consolation, but I thought I'd mention it in case > >>> 9.6.1 was an option for you and might just help:-) > >>> > >>> > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: opened socket in IDE prevents script changes
I'm seeing exactly the same range of behaviours I described earlier for 9.5.1 on Win 10 but with 9.6.1 on OS X. It's very strange that Alex is also editing scripts with sockets opened/closed but not losing changes made in the script editor. I also had 3 crashes on OS X within 30 minutes of working on this stack. Alex, are you using the IDE's script editor or some external editor? If you are using that script editor, once you've opened a socket could you add a comment to your stack script, apply, close the script editor, then edit the script again to see if the comment has persisted? I have to quit LC to make any changes to a stack once I've opened a socket. It seems to me that once a socket has been opened that the IDE is no longer persisting changes. I'm pretty sure I didn't see this behaviour on my previous project using sockets. Regards Bernard On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 12:21 PM Bernard Devlin wrote: > Thanks Alex for your quick response. > > I'll try with 9.6.1 on Mac. The only other difference between us is that > my sockets are interacting with a process outside of LC. But I can't see > why that would make a difference (particularly once I've closed all > sockets, I wouldn't expect sockets to interfere with scripts being > changed). > > Regards, > Bernard > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 12:07 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I've not seen any such problems - though with 9.6.1 / Mac. >> >> I've spent most of the last week in the IDE, with two or more stacks >> open (one server, one client - occasionally multiple client stacks) so I >> have multiple open sockets (both 'accept'ing and 'open'ed) almost all >> the time, and had no problems with IDE or script editor. >> >> (I know - that's no consolation, but I thought I'd mention it in case >> 9.6.1 was an option for you and might just help:-) >> >> ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: opened socket in IDE prevents script changes
"do i understand it correctly that both, server and client stack, can communicate with each other using sockets in one instance of the LC IDE" Your understanding is correct. On the other project (where I didn't have this current problem) I had half a dozen clients and 1 "server" running in the IDE. On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 2:47 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Alex, > for a new project which should include socket communication i have to > prototype a short "demo" and i was already wondering if i need to have > running 2 instances of the LC IDE for development. > > But now you wrote that you had one server and even multiple client stacks > opened in LC. > So do i understand it correctly that both, server and client stack, can > communicate with each other using sockets in one instance of the LC IDE? > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: opened socket in IDE prevents script changes
Thanks Alex for your quick response. I'll try with 9.6.1 on Mac. The only other difference between us is that my sockets are interacting with a process outside of LC. But I can't see why that would make a difference (particularly once I've closed all sockets, I wouldn't expect sockets to interfere with scripts being changed). Regards, Bernard On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 12:07 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I've not seen any such problems - though with 9.6.1 / Mac. > > I've spent most of the last week in the IDE, with two or more stacks > open (one server, one client - occasionally multiple client stacks) so I > have multiple open sockets (both 'accept'ing and 'open'ed) almost all > the time, and had no problems with IDE or script editor. > > (I know - that's no consolation, but I thought I'd mention it in case > 9.6.1 was an option for you and might just help:-) > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
opened socket in IDE prevents script changes
This is a strange phenomenon.I wonder if anyone else has seen this. Livecode 9.5.1 Windows 10. If a socket is opened then changes to scripts in the IDE are not applied/saved. There's no error message. It *appears* from the IDE that the changes are applied (i.e. the changes are visible in the script editor, the "apply" button indicates the script is no longer dirty). *Even if the socket is then closed and changes made this problem occurs.* There are also many crashes of the IDE in working on scripts involving sockets. It's because of these crashes that I realised changes are not applied. Once a socket has been opened/closed then in the IDE the stack cannot be closed/reopened without closing/reopening the entire IDE. Saving the stack from the message box also results in the (not really applied) changes being saved. Regards Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Some sad news
That's very sad news. I'd noticed he had been quiet on the forum. HH made some truly extraordinary contributions. Just a few days ago I was just looking at his Jigsaw HTML5 app, and was astonished at what he had achieved. He might not have been happy with the limitations in the HTML5 standalone, but he pushed what could be done to the max, inspiring many of us to look at what was possible rather than on what was not possible. I've never been part of an online community for so long that I've seen half a dozen great contributors pass away. HH always went the extra mile with any problem in our community where he got involved. He will be missed :( On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 12:07 PM Heather Laine via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Dear List Folks, > > I have today received some sad news. I am told that Hermann Hoch passed > away in April this year, from a stroke. I know many of you knew him either > remotely or having met him in person at a conference. He will be missed. I > met him myself and found him to be a wonderfully warm and kind person. He > could be volatile, but I always felt it was because he cared passionately > about things. > > I will take what steps I can to preserve his legacy of HTML5 examples. As > these are hosted on an on-rev account we should be able to maintain it in > perpetuity for the benefit of the LiveCode Community. > > LiveCode HTML5 didn't always meet his expectations or progress as fast as > he wanted it to and I do wish he could have seen our next planned release, > where HTML5 support will be a focus. He was of great benefit to this > community and shared his expertise freely. > > I'm not sure what else I can say. Rest in peace hh, you will be missed :( > > Heather > > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager > LiveCode Ltd > www.livecode.com > > > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Naive XML questions
In his reply to you I think Alex is suggesting you use the handlers that come with the Datagrid. These can convert xml to a LC array. You might find it easier just to deal with a familair data structure rather than learn XML. I found them here: http://revonline2.runrev.com/stack/571/XMLAndArrays But the handlers are also to be found inside the datagrid library in the IDE (I suspect they are more up to date). On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 5:22 PM Graham Samuel via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I feel stupid, but even with Sarah Reichelt’s help, there are very very > simple things I can’t do with the LC XML functions. My current problem is > this: > > I have a series of XML files which are in fact .gpx files - a collection > of GPS coordinates representing a route on the Earth’s surface. There are > thousands of files around which I can use as test data, so I don’t have to > roll my own. Taking just one of these examples, I can do the following in LC > > 1. Get the user to find the file and download it > > 2. Check it’s a .gpx file > > 3. Turn it into an LC XML data structure with an integer ID > > 4. Find out how many child nodes there are. > > Then it all goes wrong, because I don’t seem to be able to address the > individual nodes. This is obviously needed for further progress, in > functions like revXMLFirstChild and revXMLNodeContents. > > I just don’t know what format to use. Sarah’s tutorial doesn’t help > because her data structure is too simplified. > > If you’re still with me, this is what the beginning of a typical file > looks like: > > > > > http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1"; creator="Digital Crow" > version="1.0" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"; > xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1 > http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1/gpx.xsd";> > > > > > > > > > > > 169.623637 > > > > > 169.744722 > > > > > 169.744722 > > > > > 169.266626 > > > etc - there may sometimes be thousands of these “trkpt” elements. > > So, suppose I want to get the first instance of the “lon” attribute into a > local variable. How do I address the first node etc in order to do > it? I have attempted various common-sense methods, but none work. > > This must be child’s play to a lot of people, just not me. > > Hoping for some guidance. > > Graham > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Script Editor freezes in Windows 10 (was Can't edit scripts in DataGrid group in Windows 10)
Hi Martin In the Script Editor try unchecking the various entries under Edit/Options e.g. variable checking, live errors, etc. I've recently moved to using LC on OS X and was surprised how snappy the editor was i.e. I didn't need to switch off most of those things as I did on Windows 10. I don't have any advice about Proj Browser, as I almost never used it. Regards, Bernard On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 1:31 AM Martin Koob via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Another bit of info regarding the length of script where this happens. > > I have been going through the project browser trying to open small scripts > then opening those with more and more lines. I found that a script with > 53 lines opens, a script with 62 lines freezes. > > anyway. Down with this for tonight. Hope someone has some ideas as to > what might be going on and how to solve it. > > Martin > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: LC iOS Command 'mergPopActivity'
Hi Graham I wondered if this information is of use. URL calls are not limited to "http://";. Having a LC app respond to a URL call: http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/58672-using-custom-url-schemes Apps and their URL schemas: https://ios.gadgethacks.com/news/always-updated-list-ios-app-url-scheme-names-0184033/ Regards Bernard On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 4:33 PM Graham Samuel via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: So far I have not found out how to invoke another app directly from inside > an iOS app, although I think I can invoke a browser using a URL. Perhaps > this is easier than I thought. Will report. > > Graham > > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).
Which is why my sentence finishes with "... to be in a situation to take on this level of complexity." :-) Apple first bought the domain iphone.org in 1999. That the iPhone was under development was even being discussed by mainstream media such as the New York Times in 2002. The public availability of the iPhone was announced by Apple at the start of January 2007. Those with an ear to the ground would have been considering their future options between 2002 and 2007. I'm glad they had the foresight I didn't have. Kind regards, Bernard On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 7:45 PM Richmond via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > That sounds super if it were true, but I don't think it is as RunRev (as > they then were) dropped support for SPARC, UNIX and so > forth a long time before they began work on mobile platforms. > > Richmond. > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).
Hi Heriberto Back in the day (20 years ago) the engine/IDE ran on FreeBSD and various proprietary unixes. The Linux server version has been seen to work on FreeBSD back in 2011 (after installing Linux compatibility layer). http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Yay-Victory-RevServer-runs-on-FreeBSD-with-Linux-Compat-installed-td3445454.html You _might_ be able to get that to work now. I doubt it would be supported by Livecode. What amazes me nowadays is just how much more complex things are than they were 20 years ago - looking at the compatibility matrix for Livecode dependencies on OS version, XCode version, device version -- all just to produce apps that run on iOS: https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/ If someone had said 20 years ago that a small company in Scotland could manage that kind of complexity people would have laughed in disbelief. But rightly LC saw where the future was headed with mobile computing and they obviously had to make sacrifices along the way (e.g. FreeBSD, etc) to be in a situation to take on this level of complexity. HTH Bernard On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 5:08 PM Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Dear all, > > I have a question. It's not a very important question and I don’t want > to bother you y 'all, so if you think is off-topic, feel free to not to > respond, I'm just curious. > > I've been working with Livecode for almost five years, and I never saw a > LiveCode server "UNIX" version. > > The LiveCode Wikipedia’s article says this: LiveCode runs on iOS, Android, > OS X, Windows 95 through Windows 10, Raspberry Pi and "several variations > of Unix (I think is just means Linux)". > > I'm thinking about tinkering with a FreeBSD server and LiveCode server, > but I didn't see a "UNIX" version, so I suppose that I have to compile it. > Have any of you installed LiveCode server on FreeBSD (or Solaris)? > > I'm just thinking, but maybe there's a small niche working with LiveCode > server on BSD or Solaris (still many companies use them and not many people > develop software for this platforms nowadays). > We have a few companies in Spain (my country) still using Solaris or BSD > servers (mainly in the Graphic arts business). > > PS, I currently work with LiveCode Server on Centos, but it could be > interesting to test it in FreeBSD. > > Best regards/ Saludos cordiales/ Cordialement > > Heriberto Torrado > Chief Technology Officer (CTO) > Director de informática > Directeur informatique > > https://networkdreams.net > > > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Fun with the templateimage
This works: export snapshot from rect tRect of window tWinID at size tDim1,tDim2 to file tFile as GIF I saw a report in the forum saying that this scaled incorrectly if the snapshot was of a text field, but in my tests this was not a problem. On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 11:34 AM Bernard Devlin wrote: > Richard, just FYI > > The dictionary (LC 9.5.1) does say that "export snapshot ... at size > x,x..." is supported since version 6.0, but I can't get it to change the > size of the exported image. I'll add a note here if I get it to work. > > On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 4:38 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> The "import snapshot" command had an "at size" option added several >> versions ago to facilitate some scaling tasks: >> >> import snapshot from the selectedObject at size 100,100 >> >> But oddly, no such option has been added to the "export snapshot" command. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> >> >> ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Fun with the templateimage
Richard, just FYI The dictionary (LC 9.5.1) does say that "export snapshot ... at size x,x..." is supported since version 6.0, but I can't get it to change the size of the exported image. I'll add a note here if I get it to work. On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 4:38 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > The "import snapshot" command had an "at size" option added several > versions ago to facilitate some scaling tasks: > > import snapshot from the selectedObject at size 100,100 > > But oddly, no such option has been added to the "export snapshot" command. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Getting URL to Work in specialFolderDocuments
Hi I get a headache looking at concatenations like this. I don't use them unless I'm constructing a simple string. put URL (tHttpsServerRoot & sStoryTitle & "/" & sStoryTitle & ".livecode") into tLocalDocumentsStories & sStoryTitle & "/" & sStoryTitle & ".livecode" It will be a cold day in hell when I don't use Merge() to construct non-simple strings. *put* "blurb1" into sStoryTitle *put* "https://dev.himalayanacademy.com/media/stories/"; into tHttpsServerRoot *put* specialFolderPath("Documents") & "/SivaSivaApp/media/stories/" into tLocalDocumentsStories *if* char -1 of tHttpsServerRoot is "/" *then* *delete* char -1 of tHttpsServerRoot ## deleting "/" to make merge() template clearer *if* char -1 of tLocalDocumentsStories is "/" *then* *delete* char -1 of tLocalDocumentsStories *put* merge( "[[tHttpsServerRoot ]]/[[sStoryTitle]]/[[sStoryTitle]].livecode" ) into tSourceURL *put* merge( "binfile:[[tLocalDocumentsStories]]/[[ sStoryTitle]]/[[sStoryTitle]].livecode" ) into tDestURL put URL tSourceURL into URL tDestURL On each of the above lines one can use breakpoints to check the values of the variables and at the last line check that the URLs to use are correct. Merge() will ignore spaces within [[]] and outside of the quotes around the template string, so one can line up placeholders to check that all the template parts match visually. HTH Bernard On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 11:00 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > on dataServerStack >local tHttpsServerRoot,tLocalDocumentsStories >put "https://dev.himalayanacademy.com/media/stories/"; --into > tHttpsServerRoot >put specialFolderPath("Documents") & "/SivaSivaApp/media/stories/" into > tLocalDocumentsStories >put URL (tHttpsServerRoot & sStoryTitle & "/" & sStoryTitle & > ".livecode") into tLocalDocumentsStories & sStoryTitle & "/" & sStoryTitle > & ".livecode" > end dataServerStack > > it goes badly to documents folder, > > on dataServerStack >local tHttpsServerRoot,tLocalDocumentsStories >put "https://dev.himalayanacademy.com/media/stories/"; into > tHttpsServerRoot >put specialFolderPath("Documents") & "/SivaSivaApp/media/stories/" into > tLocalDocumentsStories >put URL (tHttpsServerRoot & sStoryTitle & "/" & sStoryTitle & > ".livecode") into tLocalDocumentsStories & sStoryTitle & "/" & sStoryTitle > & ".livecode" > end dataServerStack > > it goes badly to documents folder, > > ? > put URL (tHttpsServerRoot & sStoryTitle & "/" & sStoryTitle & ".livecode") > into tLocalDocumentsStories & sStoryTitle & "/" & sStoryTitle & ".livecode" > > Compile error line 119 (Handler: bad command) near "&", char 84 > > > BR > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Accessing files on a local network file server - BEST PRACTICE?
>> So that in case (1) , we regenerate the file and in case (2) we present a warning that the server is disconnected or down? << For (2) you could save an empty file (as a flag of availability) and set it's attribute to hidden. If the file is not there when you get the files, then the folder is unavailable. Because it's a hidden file, users won't see it if they open the folder using (most) other applications (Explorer only shows such files if the 'show hidden' checkbox is ticked). This file can then be filtered out based on file name when you get the files of that folder to present to the user. It's just your internal check for folder availability. I guess there are some "net use" commands that would show which shares are available/unavailable, but it's a long time since I did that kind of system admin. To programmatically set a file attribute to hidden on Windows use the shell command to issue this "attrib +h _ServerAvailable.txt" Hope that helps. On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 9:54 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > This question may have an obvious answer, but I am brain dead today, so > here goes: > > I have a app installed with some customers in a Windows network > environment. They have all their laptops set so that their Home > directories are on a local network server. > > So, where as on a local laptop, specialFolderPath("documents") might > return "C:/Users//Documents" as the path, for them > specialFolderPath("documents") returns something like > "//s1.somedomain.com/mountPoint//Documents" > > We save a number of folders and files in the user's Documents folder. In > some cases, if the file is not present (i.e. if there is a file tFile is > false) we regenerate the file from a default. > > Sometime, the server is offline or the user is disconnected from the > network. > > What is a good way to differentiate between: > > 1) one of these files is not present so must be regenerated, i.e > > if there is not a file (specialFolderPath("documents")&slash&tFilename) > then >-- regenerate the file tFile at location specialFolderPath("documents") > > Versus > > 2) The Server (//s1.somedomain.com/ is disconnected to down? > > So that in case (1) , we regenerate the file and in case (2) we present > a warning that the server is disconnected or down? > > Mu gut says this should be simple, but I just can not wrap my brain > around it today. > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Adding items to a group
Whilst Mark provided what Phil needed, I too cannot believe how easy and reliable Geoff's Navigator is. I use it for everything. When I need an Inspector a double-click on a line in Navigator brings it up. I love it. On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 7:14 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Also, Geoff Canyon wrote a GREAT utility called Navigator, which among > other things, allows you to drag objects around in a hierarchical list. If > you drag an object in a group to somewhere outside that group, into another > group let’s say, it does all the relaying for you. > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Cross Platform Font Layout - current workarounds
I wondered how Java dealt with the issue of rendering fonts across platforms. It seems they have (had) the same problems you are experiencing. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12202758/how-to-make-java-swing-application-has-a-consistent-font-in-windows-and-linux https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11994407/using-java-to-develop-cross-platform-fonts-scaling-differently-on-different-pla Those posts are 8 years old (that they've been viewed 1000s of times suggests this is pain that was felt by many). Maybe things have changed for the better in Javaland. But it's more likely that Java is less used for desktop apps than it was 8 years ago. I know that I only use one Java app across my computers. Regards Bernard On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 5:03 AM Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Yet again, everyone happy to make excuses in accepting their fate to have > to do all the work twice. I might as well code it in Java, C# and Swift for > all the hassle I get in LC. It's laughable how excuses are made for them. > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: breakpoint causes 3 second delay then exit to top
Here's another data point for this oddity. Once the IDE starts tripping out from breakpoints and I restart Livecode to fix the problem, the behavior in which the breakpoints stop working has "detached" from the object pointing to it. I say "detached", as the object still shows in the Inspector that it is pointing to the behavior-containing control and choosing to edit the behavior script from the object's Inspector opens up the relevant behavior in the Script Editor. Breakpoints work once again when I once more point the object's Inspector at the object it knows contains the behavior script Somewhere inside LC this connection is being lost. At the moment the only variable I've been able to isolate as a cause is: how many hours I've had LC open working on this project. On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 7:35 PM Bernard Devlin wrote: > I found later that the same thing was happening away from this code block, > and with just a red breakpoint. > > As I don't restart my PC for weeks on end, I quit LC and restarted. Both > of these strange error situations disappeared. Which suggests that it is > some complex condition (either within my app or within the IDE) that leads > to this situation. > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: breakpoint causes 3 second delay then exit to top
I found later that the same thing was happening away from this code block, and with just a red breakpoint. As I don't restart my PC for weeks on end, I quit LC and restarted. Both of these strange error situations disappeared. Which suggests that it is some complex condition (either within my app or within the IDE) that leads to this situation. On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 5:09 PM Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Le 17 juil. 2020 à 13:52, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> a écrit : > > > > This is mystifying in so many ways. I've seen this a few times and I'm > at > > a loss to explain it. It's LC 9.5.1 on Windows 10. > > > > *When the code gets to the above breakpoint, the debugger exits to top. > It > > takes about 3 seconds with the debugger sitting at the breakpoint before > > the engine exits to top.* > > > > Hello, > > I've already had the same behavior but I noticed that it happens when > there is an error in the executed code (but an error that doesn't block the > execution of the script !). By fixing the script, the breakpoint then works > as it should. > > Maybe there is an error in your script (before the code you displayed > here). > > Ludovic > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
breakpoint causes 3 second delay then exit to top
This is mystifying in so many ways. I've seen this a few times and I'm at a loss to explain it. It's LC 9.5.1 on Windows 10. I have a simple conditional, where I want to stop execution and debug some following actions. Here's the code: *try* *if* "15474" is in tControlLongId *then* *put* the long time && tControlLongId *breakpoint* *end* *if* *catch* tErr *put* "error:" && tErr *end* *try* *When the code gets to the above breakpoint, the debugger exits to top. It takes about 3 seconds with the debugger sitting at the breakpoint before the engine exits to top.* * A long id containing "15474" is put into the message box. * *If I comment out that condition, then the code runs to completion. * *The Catch clause never catches any error.* * If I try to use a red breakpoint in the gutter, the debugger exits to top (again, after the IDE has sat at the breakpoint for about 3 seconds). * *So the condition triggers. The variable has the tested value. The value of that variable can be expressed. But it looks like the very act of invoking the debugger causes the code to fail, and in a way where even a try/catch block cannot intercept.* *Mystifying. And a significant bug IMO, rendering interactive debugging impossible.* *Kind regards, Bernard * ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: DataGrid question...
Hi Bernd Your modTableField is very impressive. Reminds me of the work of the late, great Eric Chatonet (author of many works on Hypercard). I see only one slight problem: after I click into a cell a trace of the I beam is left behind on leaving the cell (this becomes visible on selecting another row). I guess this is a LC bug. If I click away (e.g. on the "examples" tabbed button) the trace vanishes. If I click on the column header to sort and re-sort, the I beam trace is still there in the field in which I clicked. If I click in the output field that also does not remove the I beam vestige. But apart from that visual vestige, in 20 minutes of playing with mTF I was very impressed. BTW, in case you have not seen this yourself, this vestige was visible for me with LC 9.5.1 on Windows 10. Regards, Bernard On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 10:44 PM Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > >Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > > >Does anyone have a link to obtain Bernd's modTableField ? > > Here is a link to the latest version of modifiedTableField > > berndniggemann.on-rev.com/mtf/modTableField.zip< > http://berndniggemann.on-rev.com/mtf/modTableField.zip> > > there is a zip of a demo stack with a helper stack and a .rtf document > with the API > > Use the demo stack to explore modTableField. Have a little patience to > explore. It shows many options. Please have a look at the API document to > get a feeling how to address and query modTableField. > > If you want to use modTableField in a project copy the group > "modTableField 1" from the demo stack to your stack and use the API to work > with it. > > This version is HTML5 safe. There was a superfluous wait in former > versions. Hermann used tinyDict with his HTML5 demo of an IDE. > > tinyDictionary uses modTableField > > There are a couple of users that seem quite content with modTableField > (thanks Jerry for mentioning it) > > I would be happy to know if anybody uses modTableField in a project. > (aside from the people that mailed me before). > > If you have questions please feel free to email me. > > Kind regards > Bernd > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: The Roadmap
On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 7:00 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > If it were up to me I'd ditch it altogether. > Whatever frustrations I have with Livecode they are vastly outweighed by the things that it can do and the things it can do now that it couldn't do a decade ago. I don't think people appreciate what an incredible achievement it is. As I used to be a Lotus Notes developer, I can see the contrast. IBM recently sold their Lotus technologies to an Indian company for $1.8bn. Over the last ten years a company the size of IBM could not successfully manage the development of a cross-platform application development environment. For an entire decade IBM only added the v.9 release and fixpacks (and Notes 9.0 was actually Notes 8.5.4 but re-branded). Notes used to exist in native clients for OS/2, Windows, MacOS. IBM jettisoned the native clients and moved to running the entire thing inside the JVM. It took IBM about 15 years to move from Notes 7 to Notes 10. When I recently downloaded Notes 10 to do some programming on thousands of emails (the very thing where Notes should shine) the client crashed repeatedly on trying to import the emails. Bear in mind that Notes even has a menu action to import emails from a folder, so importing emails to process the text is not even something that requires any programming, it's that basic to the product. Having moved from programming in C with all the possible problems with pointers and memory allocation, Notes was moved to a language with garbage collection and memory management and still the client crashes doing basic things it could do 15 years ago. By comparison in the last 10 to 15 years Livecode has added app delivery for iOS, Android, Linux, Windows64 and HTML5 to Windows32 and OSX. That's more than IBM ever managed to do and a movement in the opposite direction to that taken by IBM. And as well as doing this Livecode re-architected the engine. IBM's major new feature over the last decade (XPages) looks like it is now almost certainly going to be thrown away. By moving to the JVM for the development environment IBM was banking on delivering most Notes apps as web apps. Obviously the Notes servers do a whole range of things that Livecode doesn't do. But these server-side technologies were mostly in the Notes product 15 years ago. Going back 15 years ago and Livecode was at v2.5. Remember back then? The clipboarddata was a new thing. We didn't have a built-in web browser, nor multi-dimensional arrays, nor unicode, nor the datagrid, nor behaviors, nor widgets, nor xslt, nor the enhanced liburl. That's just off the top of my head. IBM with all their resources and access to capital markets couldn't hold themselves to their own limited roadmap. Livecode has successfully moved forward with a cross-platform solution when IBM couldn't do so. And without having $billions to play with. They shouldn't attempt to hold to a roadmap when the elephant in the room can't do it. And IBM never allowed businesses to use Notes for free nor did they open the source code. Livecode did that and has a free edition which contains probably 99% of the functionality of the most expensive license. I think many of us lose sight of this small company's achievements. Regards, Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Thank you for the 9.0.5 update
>> I created a play/test stack yesterday - 1 button 2 functions and a mousup of a couple of lines no more than 30 lines of code. Did some debugging and got a crash in less than 15 minutes. << I was getting multiple random crashes with a test stack in 9.5 that were apparently totally unrelated to debugging. Having not seen such crashes for years, I assumed that it was the introduction of the 64bit build for Windows. So I switched to using the 32bit build for Windows and the random crashes continued. I haven't got anywhere with finding a reproducible pattern. Regards, Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: livecode connect framework
Does anyone know if LiveCode Connect ever come out of beta? I have a project coming up which uses OpenAPI and it would save me a lot of work if Connect is available. Regards, Bernard On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 9:03 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > if the only hint is that its available to all attendees of the conference, > we can't be sure i guess we will find out...what a great feature for LC > and its bright future. In a way i am indifferent, since I can build my own > handlers to talk to any api i want and i do want livecode inc to > prosper ALOT, so if they decide its a non-community feature thats ok with > me. > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Enhancement: transparently persist/retrieve large amounts of array data as JSON
As far as I can see, providing this enhancement is (in essence) no more than the addition of one line to Livecode's compilation process. Details here: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21821 Seems to me to be a huge gain for virtually no effort. Array data could be stored and indexed outside of a stack. Regards Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
HTML5 severely undocumented
As I'm trying to work out why it is that the datagrid does not work in HTML5, I've realised that there are many really basic features of Livecode that do not work in HTML5. For instance, in a field the backspace key does not work. Moreover, it appears that the rawKeyDown message is not implemented, so I can't implement my own backspacekey handler. Surely the Dictionary should at least indicate which features are not implemented? When I start to go through the Dictionary, I can'd even discover if something is implemented without building an HTML5 app and then seeing if that command works. We can't even rely on the Dictionary NOT mentioning HTML5 in the Platform/OS category of the Dictionary entry as being indicative of whether or not something is supported. For example, the Dictionary entry for "Create [button]" does not say that this is implemented in HTML5 but it works (I found out through trial and error). So a command that's been in xCard for some decades is not indicated as being implemented for HTML5. But rawKeyDown has probably been in Livecode/Metacard for 20 years, but that too is not listed as being implemented in the HTML5 engine. This vagueness about what should work and what doesn't is woefully inadequate. It is over 4 years since the HTML5 standalone was first funded, and I think 3 years since it was first working (for some definition of working). Surely it should by now at least be documented what works and what does not? Considering that Runrev expects most customers to pay an additional license for HTML5 deployment this is very disappointing. Here's what Kevin said in 2014. "Anywhere you can run an HTML5 capable browser, you will be able to run your app." Now I'm sure that there are limitations imposed by the emscripten engine that Livecode over which Livecode have no control. But at the very least, there should have been a list of Livecode features that don't work in HMTL5. I'm not expecting any reply to this until after christmas. But I need to get it off my chest. After being away from Livecode for some years, I am disappointed to find I can't even work out if I can use HTML5 except through trial and error. Regards Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Datagrids in HTML5
Hi folks Am I mistaken in thinking datagrids are now supposed to work in HTML5? My datagrid and its contents display, but clicking on column headers has no effect. I ensured that the datagrid library was being included in the standalone settings. The datagrid template substack of the mainstack is listed in the HTML5 app as a substack. However, when a pertinent "do" command e.g. set the dgProps["show header"] of grp "datagrid 1" to false is issued in the HTML5 app, it has no effect. I built the same stack for Windows and HTML5, and the datagrid works as expected in the Windows executable. If datagrids don't work for HTML5, then I'm surprised they display at all. Is there a list somewhere of what is supposed to work in HTML5 and what does not work? Regards Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: WordReport Registration
Thanks Matthias. I did try variations of what I thought were a likely names for the registration handler (but that wasn't one of my guesses for the likely handler name). The file "WordReport Registered Uses.pdf" is not included in the zip file that is downloaded from within our user area on livecode.com. I saw it mentioned somewhere in the stacks/pdfs. If you could email me a copy of that file to bdrunrev at gmail, that might help too. The beauty of the WordReport concept is that it puts report-writing in the hands of the user. Regards Bernard On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 9:17 AM Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Bernard, > > this is done with registerWordReport. > > The following is an excerpt from the file "WordReport Registered Uses.pdf" > which was included in the download file, at least when i downloaded it. > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
WordReport Registration
Hi all I've got a copy of this as part of one of my previous Livecode purchases. How does one go about using the registration code? The "Try WordReport" stack says either to buy a registration code *or* to simply use the code if one has it. Neither of the PDF files which come with the stack explains how to use the registration code. I'd contact the provider of the software but I've seen numerous messages saying he doesn't respond to emails that I thought I'd ask an existing user. Regards Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: LiveCoders from London, lets meet!
I live outside London, but easy enough to get in to meet up. On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 2:14 PM Keith Martin via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Andre, > > I'm based in London – I live in Mitcham/Tooting and I work in Elephant > & Castle. I'm game! > > k > > > On 9 Nov 2018, at 17:04, Andre Alves Garzia via use-livecode wrote: > > > Hey Friends, > > > > Who here is from London or nearby and would be interested in regular > > meetups? We could meet once a month or so in a pub or quieter setting. > > I am thinking of informal meet & drink, chatting. > > > > Cheers > > > > andre > > > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: LC 9.0 Windows - tooltip broken for new datagrid?
Thanks. If it's not supposed to work then best to remove it from the property inspector so the product doesn't appear buggy to new users. I have Livecode 5.5 on another machine. I'll see if the tooltip works there. I see no reason why a datagrid (even if it is a fancy group) shouldn't have a tooltip the way other UI controls have one. I guess these features are not even used on mobile interfaces, so maybe they are "legacy". Either way I'll enter this as a bug for the 9.x series. Bernard On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:18 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Actually, everything in a datagrid is an object of some sort with it's own > tooltip (empty by default). There would have to be special code to display > the tooltip for a datagrid instead of the tooltip for the object you are > pointing at. > > I tested in a new stack and the tooltip for a datagrid NEVER displays. Not > even sure why it's there. > > Bob S > > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
LC 9.0 Windows - tooltip broken for new datagrid?
Am I right that this is broken? A new stack with a single button will show the button's tooltip when the pointer hovers over it. Add a datagrid, and set the tooltip for the datagrid through the inspector. The tooltip does not display no matter where the pointer is in the datagrid. Regards Bernard ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode