Re: I give up! Mac App Installer Hell

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

I’m totally with you, Dan, but even though I’ve done it before as well. I have 
no idea what I did. I’ve given up trying to develop apps for iOS and stopped my 
Apple Developer subscription out of this frustration.

Good luck! Somebody save us all!! Why can’t LC do this for us? Maybe ChatGPT??

Roger

> On Oct 6, 2023, at 3:44 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> If you have a very, very, VERY good understanding of creating Mac installer 
> files to be posted to a website for user install, and to submit to the Mac 
> App Store, I would like to pay you to walk me through all this - step by 
> step.  I can’t take any of more this crap!  Certificates, Identifiers, 
> Profiles, p12 Files, Keys (public and private), Provisioning, Installer keys… 
> G!!!  I have an app that is tested, built and ready to go.  Just need to 
> get it signed and uploaded to Apple.   If you understand all this, I would 
> think a 20 minute Skype call should get it done.
> 
> FYI… This is an update to an existing app that is already in the app store.  
> (Don’t ask me how I got it done last time?!).  I don’t know why my brain 
> can’t grasp this…. I have read Apple’s documentation, tried the (out of date) 
> LC Lesions, watched videos, and gone through article after article.   At this 
> point, I am not really interested in learning how to do this… I just want to 
> get it done.
> 
> Save me!
> -Dan
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

If you mean unsigned standalones, I just checked one of mine developed probably 
in 9.6 or 9.7 and it worked.

Roger

> On Sep 29, 2023, at 4:22 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hmmm… I wonder if we can expect ALL unsigned apps to crash under Sonoma?
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> On Sep 29, 2023, at 3:44 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> While checking the different binaries of the app bundles of 9.6.9, 9.6.10, 
> 10dp4 and 10.dp6 i noticed
> that only 9.6.10 and 10DP6 app bundles have all their binaries completely 
> code signed.
> 
> I just checked the content of the macOS folder of the app bundles, but there 
> for example the livecode executables of 9.6.10 and 10DP6 have valid 
> signature, but the livecode executables of  9.6.9 and 10DP4 haven't.
> So maybe  this is the reason why the older releases do not work in Sonoma.
> 
> If you have a current Apple Developer  subscription you could try to code 
> sign and notarize the complete app bundle of 9.6.9 for example. Maybe this 
> will allow to run these versions under Sonoma.
> I did this some time ago, if i remember right then with 10DP2  and an 
> "enhanced" plist to get an other problem fixed.
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23576
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Am 29.09.2023 um 23:03 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma
> 
> Roger
> 
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma

Roger

> On Sep 29, 2023, at 1:26 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Nope, removing the plugins is not the answer to making LiveCode work in 
> Sonoma. To be clear, I have found that LC 9.6.10 is the only version that 
> works in Sonoma. I’m not sure if there is a subsequent version of 10.0.0 (DP 
> 4) that might work?
> 
> Oh and Firewall is inactive
> 
> 
> Roger
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2023, at 9:33 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks, Bob, I’ll give that a try later today. At least I am up and running 
>> with LC 9.6.10.
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Sep 29, 2023, at 8:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing 
>>> but do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch 
>>> (correct me if I am wrong). 
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me 
>>>> the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 
>>>> on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> Roger
>>>> 
>>>> 
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Nope, removing the plugins is not the answer to making LiveCode work in Sonoma. 
To be clear, I have found that LC 9.6.10 is the only version that works in 
Sonoma. I’m not sure if there is a subsequent version of 10.0.0 (DP 4) that 
might work?

Oh and Firewall is inactive


Roger

> On Sep 29, 2023, at 9:33 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Bob, I’ll give that a try later today. At least I am up and running 
> with LC 9.6.10.
> 
> Roger
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2023, at 8:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing but 
>> do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch 
>> (correct me if I am wrong). 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me 
>>> the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 
>>> on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Thanks, Bob, I’ll give that a try later today. At least I am up and running 
with LC 9.6.10.

Roger

> On Sep 29, 2023, at 8:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing but 
> do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch (correct 
> me if I am wrong). 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the 
>> “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my 
>> Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>> 
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Ok, I guess I’ve been out to Lunch. A review of the list revealed that V9.6.10 
works. Downloaded it and indeed it does work. Is that the whole story? Will the 
older Community versions not work in Sonoma forevermore?

Roger


> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the 
> “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my 
> Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
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All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the 
“LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my 
Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help.

Thanks,

Roger


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Re: Your scripts as a flowchart

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Very cool! Thank you for sharing it, Andreas.

Roger


> On Sep 15, 2023, at 7:30 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> Those frequenting the forums may have seen this already, but I thought I'd 
> share it here too now:
> 
> If you want to see a graphic map of the inter-relations of all the handlers 
> in the scripts of your LiveCode projects, my tool ScriptDependencies now 
> features an extremely cool flowchart output (using the Mermaid javascript 
> lib).
> 
> Here’s an example of how a script flowchart can look:
> https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/WIS_ScriptDependencies_example.png
> 
> A few easy steps to test it on your own scripts:
> 
> 1) Download ScriptDependencies here:
> https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_ScriptDepedencies/releases/latest
> 
> 2) Open the stack, click the top left cog wheel and add at least one stack 
> (that has at least some handlers calling other handlers) to a project.
> 3) Close the project pane and click "Start mapping and analysis”.
> 4) Click ”Create flowchart”. Boom! :)
> 
> On Mac, the browser widget can display the flowchart in-stack, enabling some 
> interactivity (click a node to highlight the arrows to and from it).
> On Windows and Linux, where the browser widget has, er... room for 
> improvement…, the flowchart is instead displayed in an external browser 
> window (minus interactivity).
> 
> My intention with ScriptDependencies is to provide a code analysis and live 
> documentation tool (of some kind) for LiveCode projects. I need it myself for 
> some big LC projects, and thought it might be useful also for other LC devs.
> 
> The tool has been thoroughly tested by LC veterans like bn (Bernd), jacque 
> (Jacqueline) and mwieder (Mike), who have all provided invaluable feedback 
> and improvement suggestions, bringing the tool up to quite a professional 
> level.
> 
> I hope you’ll find use for it - or at least enjoy seeing your scripts 
> presented as a bouquet of flowers, a piece of art! :)
> 
> Any feedback is very welcome!
> 
> /Andreas
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Re: Training the AI to write better LiveCode

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

I forgot . . . can’t send attachments. Here is the dialogue:

Me:
A-A-A=25 AND B-B-B=20 AND C-C-C=15, WHAT IS A+B+C?

GPT:
A + B + C = (A-A-A + B-B-B + C-C-C)/3 + (A + B + C) = (25 + 20 + 15)/3 + (A + B 
+ C) = 60/3 + (A + B + C) = 20 + (A + B + C) = 20 + A + B + C

Therefore, A + B + C = 20 + A + B + C, and (A + B + C) = 20.


Me:
try again. Given that A-A-A=25 and B-B-B=20 and  C-C-C=15, what is A+B+C?


GPT:
If A-A-A=25, then A = (25 + 3A)/3, so 3A = 25 + 3A, and 2A = 25, and A = 12.5.

Similarly, B = (20 + 3B)/3, so B = 10, and C = (15 + 3C)/3, so C = 5.

So, A + B + C = 12.5 + 10 + 5 = 27.5.


Me:
Solve each given equation individually and try again


GPT:
Sure, let's solve each equation individually:

A-A-A = 25

A = (25 + 3A)/3

3A = 25 + 3A

2A = 25

A = 12.5

B-B-B = 20

B = (20 + 3B)/3

3B = 20 + 3B

2B = 20

B = 10

C-C-C = 15

C = (15 + 3C)/3

3C = 15 + 3C

2C = 15

C = 7.5

So, A + B + C = 12.5 + 10 + 7.5 = 30.



Me:
what is A - A -A?


GPT:
A - A - A is an algebraic expression that represents subtracting the same 
quantity, A, three times. If A is a number, then A - A - A would equal -2A.

However, in the context of a specific problem, the value of A - A - A may be 
something else, such as 25 in the equation A - A - A = 25.


Me:
I disagree. A - A - A = A -2A = -A


GPT:
Yes, you are correct. I apologize for the mistake in my previous answer. A - A 
- A = A - 2A = -A. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.


Me:
Now go back to the original question and solve it


GPT:
Given the equations A-A-A = 25 and B-B-B = 20 and C-C-C = 15, we can find the 
values of A, B, and C and then calculate the sum A + B + C.

Starting with A-A-A = 25, we can simplify this expression:

A - A - A = A - 2A = -A = 25

Therefore, A = -25.

Similarly, we can find B and C:

B-B-B = 20

B = -20

C-C-C = 15

C = -15

Finally, we can calculate A + B + C:

A + B + C = -25 + -20 + -15 = -60.

So, the answer to A + B + C given that A-A-A = 25, B-B-B = 20, and C-C-C = 15 
is -60.



Me:
Yes! can you remember this?

GPT:
As an AI language model, I don't have the capacity to remember specific 
information in the sense that humans do, but I have been trained on a vast 
corpus of text, so I can use that knowledge to answer questions like this one. 
So, I can assist you with similar questions in the future.




> On Feb 6, 2023, at 12:44 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Forgive me for jumping in, but decided to try this myself. Here is the 
> dialogue attempting to correct ChatGPT :
> 
> 
> What fun!
> 
> Roger
> 
>> On Feb 6, 2023, at 8:04 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> that's not what chatgpt came up with.
>> but that's the point - it's still early.
>> 
>> On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 9:57 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> A = -25
>>> B = -20
>>> C = -15
>>> 
>>> So, -60.
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
> 
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Re: Training the AI to write better LiveCode

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Forgive me for jumping in, but decided to try this myself. Here is the dialogue 
attempting to correct ChatGPT :


What fun!

Roger

> On Feb 6, 2023, at 8:04 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> that's not what chatgpt came up with.
> but that's the point - it's still early.
> 
> On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 9:57 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> A = -25
>> B = -20
>> C = -15
>> 
>> So, -60.
>> 
>> Craig
>> 

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Re: Move in Reverse

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

From what I’ve see, that is a very rare occurrence.

> On Jan 17, 2023, at 8:06 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 1/17/23 18:35, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> Sorry for not being clear. I want to first move a grc “X” to the points of a 
>> polygon and then reverse direction. I thought there might be some esoteric 
>> code for the reverse direction like
>>  move grc “X” to the inverse points of grc Poly1
>> … but no cigar?
> 
> No worries. You were clear, I was being dense.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
> 
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Re: Move in Reverse

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Sorry for not being clear. I want to first move a grc “X” to the points of a 
polygon and then reverse direction. I thought there might be some esoteric code 
for the reverse direction like 

move grc “X” to the inverse points of grc Poly1

… but no cigar?

Roger


> On Jan 17, 2023, at 5:56 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 1/17/23 16:34, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:
>> He's moving the graphic object "to" the points of a polygon - i.e. to each 
>> in turn.
>> So the movement would be reversed.
> 
> Doh! Got it.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
> 
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Move in Reverse

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Hi all,

is there a simple way to move a grc to the points of a polygon in reverse? Or, 
does one have to manipulate the points list to its inverse?

Thanks,

Roger
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Re: Return of Hilited text of Popup Menu items

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Thanks for corecting me, I shall never forgit it!

Roger

> On Nov 11, 2022, at 8:11 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> A Curser is what I was as a sailor. A Cursor is the icon on your monitor that 
> indicates where the mouse is located. ;-)
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> On Nov 10, 2022, at 18:28 , Roger Guay via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
> Is there a way to return the hilited menu items of a popup menu button as the 
> curser is scrolled through the menu items?
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> 
> Roger
> 
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Re: Return of Hilited text of Popup Menu items

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Thanks very much Craig. Pretty much what I expected. Fortunately, I’ve 
discovered I don’t need it, so I’m good!

Roger

> On Nov 11, 2022, at 5:57 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Roger.
> 
> No messages are sent while a menu is open. Further, a “mouseMove” handler in, 
> say, the card script stops receiving messages while that menu is open.
> 
> Such a gadget, likely drawn by the underlying OS, seems to be blocking. So, I 
> think, no.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On Nov 10, 2022, at 9:28 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Is there a way to return the hilited menu items of a popup menu button as 
>> the curser is scrolled through the menu items?
>> 
>> Thanks for your help!
>> 
>> Roger
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Return of Hilited text of Popup Menu items

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Is there a way to return the hilited menu items of a popup menu button as the 
curser is scrolled through the menu items?

Thanks for your help!

Roger
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Re: Anyone any experience with Livecode under Ventura?

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

I just opened LC 10 on Ventura with no problem

Cheers
Roger

> On Oct 25, 2022, at 10:28 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> the topic says it all
> 
> Does anyone have already experience with Livecode under Ventura?
> Are there any known problems/bugs or so?
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias
> 
> 
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Re: Property Sheet for LC (was Re: Right click in field for menu)

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

This is very cool, Richard! I truly appreciate all you do for us.

Thanks and cheers,
Roger

> On Jun 3, 2022, at 7:18 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Inspectors are great in consumer tools because they provide a convenient way 
> for less technical types to access the relatively small number of properties 
> needed for the narrow range of tasks most consumer apps provide.
> 
> Property Sheets are the go-to for most professional development tools because 
> they provide a complete list of all properties supported GUI objects can 
> support. Sooner or later you'll need even the most obscure properties, and by 
> listing them all you can anticipate what's there to help solve problems like 
> the focus issue in this thread.
> 
> LiveCode doesn't yet have a Property Sheet, so many devs aren't aware of the 
> full rich scope of LC's object properties. And when they are, it means 
> opening the Message Box and typing the setting statement by hand.
> 
> So I made a Property Sheet for LC some time ago, accessible right from your 
> IDE: in the Development menu see Plugins -> GoLiveNet, and you'll find "4W 
> Props" in the Stacks section.
> 
> It updates to show the full list of properties for the current selected 
> object, and even provides a custom property editor as well.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> 
> 
> 
> Klaus wrote:
> > unfortunately the "traversalon" property of popup menu buttons is set
> > to TRUE by default.
> > This will "steal" the focus! :-/
> >
> > Use the message box (prop is also missing in the inspector) to set it
> > to FALSE and it will work as advertised.
> 
> 
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Re: Splash Method of Saving Data

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Never mind, I think I found my mistake.

Roger

> On Apr 20, 2022, at 3:46 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am so sorry for bring this up again, but I just can’t find relevant 
> information. In the good ol days one could build Mac, Windows and Unix 
> standalones apps using the splash screen method to open substacks thereby 
> saving data in the substacks. This Doesn’t seem to work anymore! I see there 
> is a lesson for saving Custom Properties using this method but I need to save 
> other data like new graphics in the substack. Help please…
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Roger
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Splash Method of Saving Data

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

I am so sorry for bring this up again, but I just can’t find relevant 
information. In the good ol days one could build Mac, Windows and Unix 
standalones apps using the splash screen method to open substacks thereby 
saving data in the substacks. This Doesn’t seem to work anymore! I see there is 
a lesson for saving Custom Properties using this method but I need to save 
other data like new graphics in the substack. Help please…

Thanks,

Roger
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Re: Thank you

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

And I, even though a long time user, have proven Jacqueline wrong on this point 
and they all still treat me well.

Roger

> On Mar 30, 2022, at 12:16 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> No question is too silly.

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Re: Speaking of Filter and Match...

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Hi Dick

Thank you so much for your time in sending me this solution. I’ve already 
learned a lot and I have yet to actually play with it!

Cheers,
Roger

> On Mar 14, 2022, at 5:08 PM, Dick Kriesel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 13, 2022, at 1:05 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> On 3/12/22 8:54 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>>> I have a field with about a thousand lines with many duplicate lines, and I 
>>> want to delete the duplicates. Seems like this should be simple but I am 
>>> running around in circles. Can anyone help me with this?
>> 
>> Making the list into an array is the easiest way but as mentioned, it will 
>> destroy the original order. If the order is important then you can restore 
>> it with a custom sort function...
>> 
> 
> 
> Since order must be maintained, it’s probably faster not to split and sort, 
> and faster not to scan the list repeatedly using lineOffset or contains.
> You could do it like this:
> 
> command removeDuplicates pDelimitedList, pDelimiter
>   local tArray, tList
>   set the lineDelimiter to pDelimiter
>   repeat for each line tLine in pDelimitedList
>  if not tArray[tLine] then -- i.e., if this line hasn't appeared already, 
> then ...
> put true into tArray[tLine]
> put tLine & pDelimiter after tList
>  end if
>   end repeat
>   delete last char of tList
>   return tList for value
> end removeDuplicates
> 
> — Dick
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Re: Speaking of Filter and Match...

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Ah, I see. Thank you again, Bob.

Roger

> On Mar 14, 2022, at 2:37 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> The UNIQUE clause is the UNIQUE combination of ALL the columns put together. 
> If I used: 
> 
> SELECT city,state UNIQUE FROM zip codes where state = 'CA' 
> 
> I would get every unique city/state combination in CA, whereas if I used: 
> 
> SELECT state UNIQUE from zip codes where state = 'CA'
> 
> I would get the first record matching 'CA', that is one record. 
> 
> There is a way to get the city and state for the one record (why anyone would 
> want to I don't know) by creating a join to the same table and using the 
> UNIQUE clause in the join. I am not that good at join syntax, so I won't 
> attempt it here and embarrass myself. :-)
> 
> BTW you can get the last matching record by doing an ascending sort and using 
> LIMIT 1, but I think MS SQL suffers from not having a limit clause. Not sure 
> why. Instead you use the TOP clause. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Mar 14, 2022, at 12:14 , Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> Actually I must correct myself. That will not work because the unique value 
>>> column (typically an autoincrementing integer) will not be unique for each 
>>> record. Instead, assuming your lines of text are in a column called 
>>> "textdata" 
>>> 
>>> SELECT textdata UNIQUE FROM...
>>> 
>>> Bob S
> 
> 
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Re: Speaking of Filter and Match...

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Thanks ver much for your clarifications, Bob although I’m not sure I understand 
your correction.

Roger

> On Mar 14, 2022, at 8:48 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Actually I must correct myself. That will not work because the unique value 
> column (typically an autoincrementing integer) will not be unique for each 
> record. Instead, assuming your lines of text are in a column called 
> "textdata" 
> 
> SELECT textdata UNIQUE FROM...
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Mar 14, 2022, at 08:29 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> They depend on the fact that arrays cannot have duplicate keys. Dumping the 
>> data into an SQL database and querying using the UNIQUE statement would do 
>> it too. 
>> 
>> SELECT * UNIQUE from ...
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 13, 2022, at 13:16 , Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thank you Jacqueline, Alex and Terry. Very interesting new (for me) methods 
>>> that I would never have come up with on my own. 
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 13, 2022, at 1:05 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On 3/12/22 8:54 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> I have a field with about a thousand lines with many duplicate lines, and 
>>>>> I want to delete the duplicates. Seems like this should be simple but I 
>>>>> am running around in circles. Can anyone help me with this?
>>>> 
>>>> Making the list into an array is the easiest way but as mentioned, it will 
>>>> destroy the original order. If the order is important then you can restore 
>>>> it with a custom sort function. Here's my test handlers:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> on mouseUp
>>>> put fld 1 into tData -- we keep this as a reference to the original order
>>>> put tData into tTrimmedData -- this one will change
>>>> split tTrimmedData by cr as set -- removes duplicates
>>>> put keys(tTrimmedData) into tTrimmedData -- convert to a text list
>>>> sort tTrimmedData numeric by origOrder(each,tData)
>>>> put tTrimmedData into fld 1
>>>> end mouseUp
>>>> 
>>>> function origOrder pWord, @pData
>>>> set wholematches to true -- may not matter, depends on the data
>>>> return lineoffset(pWord, pData)
>>>> end origOrder
>>>> 
>>>> Field 1 contains lines in random order with duplicates.
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>>>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
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Re: Speaking of Filter and Match...

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Thank you Jacqueline, Alex and Terry. Very interesting new (for me) methods 
that I would never have come up with on my own. 

Roger

> On Mar 13, 2022, at 1:05 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 3/12/22 8:54 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> I have a field with about a thousand lines with many duplicate lines, and I 
>> want to delete the duplicates. Seems like this should be simple but I am 
>> running around in circles. Can anyone help me with this?
> 
> Making the list into an array is the easiest way but as mentioned, it will 
> destroy the original order. If the order is important then you can restore it 
> with a custom sort function. Here's my test handlers:
> 
> 
> on mouseUp
>  put fld 1 into tData -- we keep this as a reference to the original order
>  put tData into tTrimmedData -- this one will change
>  split tTrimmedData by cr as set -- removes duplicates
>  put keys(tTrimmedData) into tTrimmedData -- convert to a text list
>  sort tTrimmedData numeric by origOrder(each,tData)
>  put tTrimmedData into fld 1
> end mouseUp
> 
> function origOrder pWord, @pData
>  set wholematches to true -- may not matter, depends on the data
>  return lineoffset(pWord, pData)
> end origOrder
> 
> Field 1 contains lines in random order with duplicates.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
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Speaking of Filter and Match...

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

I have a field with about a thousand lines with many duplicate lines, and I 
want to delete the duplicates. Seems like this should be simple but I am 
running around in circles. Can anyone help me with this?

Thanks,
Roger
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Re: Into the future

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Hi Bob,

I just now created a mac standalone in Monterey and LC 9.9.6 without a hitch. I 
do have xCode installed but I don’t know if that makes the difference.

Roger

> On Feb 28, 2022, at 10:52 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Klaus. 
> 
> Actually the new LC versions do not create the standalone without those 
> certificates. That is the error dialog I get. If there is a way to disable 
> that feature that would be great! 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Feb 28, 2022, at 10:18 , Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Bob,
>> 
>>> Am 28.02.2022 um 18:18 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>> :
>>> 
>>> Okay, so I am at the point that I cannot build apps without codesigning and 
>>> notarizing. Livecode will throw an error now if I try and don't have these 
>>> certificates installed. Great. 
>>> 
>>> So I have been going through the tutorial, and I see I have to be an Apple 
>>> Developer, which means I have to shell out yet another $100 per year. Fine, 
>>> I did that, even though my app is for internal consumption only. 
>>> 
>>> Now It appears that for me to get the certificates needed to create a Mac 
>>> standalone, I need xCode! Okay, I go to download xCode, and it will not 
>>> install because my MacOS is too old! 10.15.1 is apparently ancient! So I am 
>>> at the point now where I am asking myself, is this really worth it? After 
>>> all the back and forth on the list where people's certificates expire, or 
>>> the version of xCode they are forced to use isn't compatible with one thing 
>>> or another, is building Mac standalones really worth it? 
>>> 
>>> So my question is, do I really have to go through all this just to create a 
>>> Mac standalone from livecode? Or do these other utilities, 
>>> mrSignNotarizeHelperV3 for example, eliminate the need for all of that? 
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>> 
>> you can still create a standalone with LC without any certificate etc.!
>> 
>>> ...even though my app is for internal consumption only. 
>> 
>> 
>> But your user(s) need to check -> Allow downloads from: Appstore and trusted 
>> developers
>> In the macOS system settings -> Security
>> 
>> And after the they need to right-click your app and select "Open..." from 
>> the context menu
>> and confirm once or twice that they really want to open that app.
>> 
>> After that they can doubleclick the app furthermore like the used to.
>> 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus
>> 
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> kl...@major-k.de
> 
> 
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Re: [ANN] Circling Balls Illusion

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Galileo: "Mathematics is the language with which God wrote the universe.”

Roger

> On Feb 3, 2022, at 10:43 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Ahh, the power of math!

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Re: [ANN] Circling Balls Illusion

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

You're absolutely right, Colin and I am ashamed that I forgot about it!

Roger

> On Feb 3, 2022, at 11:22 AM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> If you make these changes the animation becomes a lot smoother:
> 
> if the mouse is down then exit repeat
> 
> lock screen
> 
> add Pi/180 to theta
> 
> (Many more lines)…
> unlock screen
> 
> wait 5 milliseconds
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 3, 2022, at 9:59 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes:
>> 
>>> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9=36724 
>>> <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9=36724>
>> Later today I will also upload a copy to Sample Stacks.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Feb 3, 2022, at 9:37 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Roger,
>>> 
>>> Can you please provide a link to it?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Rick
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 2, 2022, at 4:10 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi List,
>>>> 
>>>> Over on the forums I introduced my LC version of a well know dynamic 
>>>> optical illusion wherein a number of balls appear to be circling inside of 
>>>> a bigger circle.
>>>> Check it out there if interested.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Roger
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>>> 
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Re: [ANN] Circling Balls Illusion

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Yes:

> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9=36724 
> <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9=36724>
Later today I will also upload a copy to Sample Stacks.

Thanks,
Roger

> On Feb 3, 2022, at 9:37 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Roger,
> 
> Can you please provide a link to it?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On Feb 2, 2022, at 4:10 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi List,
>> 
>> Over on the forums I introduced my LC version of a well know dynamic optical 
>> illusion wherein a number of balls appear to be circling inside of a bigger 
>> circle.
>> Check it out there if interested.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Roger
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[ANN] Circling Balls Illusion

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Hi List,

Over on the forums I introduced my LC version of a well know dynamic optical 
illusion wherein a number of balls appear to be circling inside of a bigger 
circle.
Check it out there if interested.

Cheers,
Roger
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Re: LC 9.6.6 oddities when showing/hiding text

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Works just fine here! And has always been the way I do it.

Roger

> On Jan 28, 2022, at 7:17 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> show fld 1 with visual effect dissolve

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Re: For the Mathematicians.

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Thanks again for all the information. You've had a very impressive as well as a 
varied career!  I shall be poking around your dissertation as it sounds quite 
interesting.

Roger

> On Jan 23, 2022, at 7:25 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Roger rumbled,
> 
>> Thank you very much for your reply.
> 
> You’re quite welcome.
> 
> Accumulated knowledge is wasted if not shared!
> 
> I used to find it online quite easily.  But not any more.
> 
>> Again I thank you for taking the time to respond. Is your dissertation 
>> readable to a LiveCoder that has no experience in any other programming 
>> language?
> 
> The code  Fortran, so  it should be readable.
> 
> The descriptions are probably largely accessible, with 2d and I think 3d 
> graphics to illustrate.
> 
> But the math for the underlying problem. . . I looked at it two or three 
> years later, and . . . I was quite impressed with the math, could see *why* 
> it was right, but generally had *no* idea why I ever would have thought to 
> make those steps!
> 
> It would go on for two or three pages of matrix calculus at times.  And 
> within those were multinomial factors 
> 
> You don’t need the underlying math of the genetic problem to make sense of 
> the algorithm, though.  
> 
> I just found that it can now be downloaded.  Chapter 3 seems to be the guts 
> of the algorithm.  It certainly came from googling the full title below.
> 
> Btw, my undergrad was in physics, then law school and practicing, before 
> returning for the Ph.D. jointly in Econo9mics & Statistics, a few years at a 
> university, and returning to law to pay tuition for my own kids . . .
> 
> I think I got to it for download from 
> http://dissertation.com/abstracts/1701716 
> .
> 
> And some info at:
> 
> https://www.econ.iastate.edu/RePEc/isu/genstf/genstf_4657.rdf 
> 
> 
> 
> Template-Type: ReDIF-Paper 1.0
> Title: Numerical optimization of recursive systems of equations with an 
> application to optimal swine genetic selection
> Author-Name: Hawkins, Richard Edmund
> Abstract: A new dynamic programming method is developed for numerical 
> optimization of recursive systems of equations, in which continuous choice 
> variables determine the allowed choices in subsequent stages of the problem. 
> The method works by dynamically creating bubbles, or subspaces, of the total 
> search space, allowing the indexing of states visited for later use, and 
> taking advantage of the fact that states adjacent to a visited state are 
> likely to be visited. The method thereby allows search of spaces far larger 
> than would traditionally be permitted by memory limitations. The search 
> allows an infinite planning horizon, and tests at each stage to determine 
> whether further optimization is worth the costs, reverting to a default 
> choice when no longer profitable. The method is applied to the quantitative 
> genetics problem of finding the optimal selection choices for quantitative 
> traits using an identified locus, using the present discounted value of all 
> generations. The method is then applied to the Estrogen Receptor Gene (ESR) 
> to find the economic value of testing for this particular gene.
> Creation-Date: 1999-01-01
> File-URL: 
> https://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=13457=rtd
> Number: 199901010813457
> Handle: RePEc:isu:genstf:199901010813457
> 
> 
> 
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Re: For the Mathematicians.

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Thank you very much for your reply. It looks like I did indeed bite off more 
than I can chew. But I really appreciate that you’ve given me some avenues to 
explore. I’m a retired Physicist that loves math, and particularly how to use 
computers to model the real world. 

Again I thank you for taking the time to respond. Is your dissertation readable 
to a LiveCoder that has no experience in any other programming language?

Roger


> On Jan 23, 2022, at 5:11 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> roger reasoned,
> 
>> Yet, as I mentioned in the beginning, Graphing tools like Good Grapher on 
>> the Mac can do it. And, I wonder how?
> 
> My guess would be using either differentials or differences, and drawing from 
> the current point for a small distance, with some watching for branch points.
> 
> There are any number of numeric methods to approximate the derivative.   
> 
> You could even iterate after each point until “close enough”.
> 
> E.g., if your calculated x,y(x) is 4.2, 7.4, you would plug these into the 
> original function and see if it indeed is zero.  
> 
> If so, good, go to the next point.  If not, try a smaller move, or plug in 
> adjacent values of 7.3 and 7.5 for y, and see if either gets you closer to 
> zero.
> 
> For my dissertation, I developed a third branch of dynamic programming, which 
> built spaces around trial solutions, and then collapsing to successively 
> finer grds.
> 
> In the process, I unwittingly reinvented cache memory . . . the search space 
> was *far* to large to keep all potential moves, so they were dropped from the 
> cache and recalculated when needed.
> 
> We never did calculate the dimensionality of the baseline problem we were 
> working on—we know that it was *at least* sixty dimensional, but almost 
> certainly past that, as the choice spaces were very much not compact . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: For the Mathematicians.

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Yet, as I mentioned in the beginning, Graphing tools like Good Grapher on the 
Mac can do it. And, I wonder how?

Thanks,

Roger

> On Jan 23, 2022, at 4:51 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Implicit functions are not, in general, directly plowable, as there is no 
> general y(x) explicit function available.
> 
> You *could*use differentials and derivates to take small steps, if you’re 
> careful and watch for points with multiple solutions (in the example 
> function, when it crosses either axis)
> 
> I think the best you’re going to be able to do is find broad classes of 
> functions that you can have solutions prepared to handle.
> 
> Either that, or a brute-forced grid drawing, in which you solve for all 
> values of y for each value of x.  Even then, you’d need a way to connect them.
> 
> 
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Re: For the Mathematicians.

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Hi François, 

My aim is to find a way to plot any and all implicit functions, not to plot 
only the lemniscate. But, that is a very interesting Wikipedia entry. Sorry I 
wasn’t clear!

Thanks,

Roger

> On Jan 22, 2022, at 4:37 PM, francois.chaplais via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> In
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemniscate_of_Bernoulli 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemniscate_of_Bernoulli>
> use the formulation in polar coordinates.
> You sample theta, compute the corresponding radius r, convert the polar 
> coordinates to usual cartesian coordinates, and draw a line between each 
> point for successive angles theta.
> 
> This is an explicit formulation (up to the sign or r, but the figure is 
> obviously symmetric with respect to the origin).
> 
> HTH
> François
> 
>> Le 22 janv. 2022 à 21:04, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  a écrit :
>> 
>> Thanks, Thomas. I’ve done some of that but you suggest some better keywords 
>> to search with. I will give it another go.
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Jan 22, 2022, at 12:34 PM, Thomas von Fintel via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I am not a mathematician, but this kind of equation is called implicit 
>>> function, implicit equation or implicit curve. If you search for that 
>>> combined with draw or plot, you might find explanations. But it seems to be 
>>> complicated.
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps.
>>> Thomas
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Am 22.01.2022 um 17:56 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>> :
>>>> 
>>>> This equation for the lemniscate, (x^2+y^2)^2 = 100*(x^2-y^2) is an 
>>>> example of a 2 variable function f(x,y). I am trying to figure how to plot 
>>>> such functions in LC. I can do simple functions like y = f(x) and x = 
>>>> f(t), y = f(t). Calculators such Good Grapher on the Mac do these f(x,y) 
>>>> functions with apparent ease. How? 
>>>> 
>>>> The only thing I’ve come up with so far is to imbed a y-repeat loop within 
>>>> an x-repeat loop where for each value of x (within a certain range), every 
>>>> value of y (within a certain range) is tested for the equation being true. 
>>>> If true, a point is generated in a point list of a polygon. I think, in 
>>>> principle, this should work and with persistence, I might be able make it 
>>>> work, but so far, no cigar. 
>>>> 
>>>> Is there a better way?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> Roger
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Re: For the Mathematicians.

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Thanks, Thomas. I’ve done some of that but you suggest some better keywords to 
search with. I will give it another go.

Roger

> On Jan 22, 2022, at 12:34 PM, Thomas von Fintel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am not a mathematician, but this kind of equation is called implicit 
> function, implicit equation or implicit curve. If you search for that 
> combined with draw or plot, you might find explanations. But it seems to be 
> complicated.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> Thomas
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 22.01.2022 um 17:56 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> This equation for the lemniscate, (x^2+y^2)^2 = 100*(x^2-y^2) is an example 
>> of a 2 variable function f(x,y). I am trying to figure how to plot such 
>> functions in LC. I can do simple functions like y = f(x) and x = f(t), y = 
>> f(t). Calculators such Good Grapher on the Mac do these f(x,y) functions 
>> with apparent ease. How? 
>> 
>> The only thing I’ve come up with so far is to imbed a y-repeat loop within 
>> an x-repeat loop where for each value of x (within a certain range), every 
>> value of y (within a certain range) is tested for the equation being true. 
>> If true, a point is generated in a point list of a polygon. I think, in 
>> principle, this should work and with persistence, I might be able make it 
>> work, but so far, no cigar. 
>> 
>> Is there a better way?
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Roger
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For the Mathematicians.

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

This equation for the lemniscate, (x^2+y^2)^2 = 100*(x^2-y^2) is an example of 
a 2 variable function f(x,y). I am trying to figure how to plot such functions 
in LC. I can do simple functions like y = f(x) and x = f(t), y = f(t). 
Calculators such Good Grapher on the Mac do these f(x,y) functions with 
apparent ease. How? 

The only thing I’ve come up with so far is to imbed a y-repeat loop within an 
x-repeat loop where for each value of x (within a certain range), every value 
of y (within a certain range) is tested for the equation being true. If true, a 
point is generated in a point list of a polygon. I think, in principle, this 
should work and with persistence, I might be able make it work, but so far, no 
cigar. 

Is there a better way?


Thanks,

Roger
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Re: OT: Wordle

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Very nice! Thank you Ali

Roger

> On Jan 7, 2022, at 2:53 AM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Many of you will no doubt already be addicted to the game 'Wordle' (if not,
> prepare to be: https://www.powerlanguage.co.uk/wordle/) - the only problem
> with it is that you only get one per day to solve. So I have taken the
> liberty of making an unlimited version (in LC of course)
> https://alilloyd.livecodehosting.com/wordle/wordle.html
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Re: Infection Simulation

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Thanks for the many great ideas, Alex. They will keep me busy for a while.

Roger

> On Dec 29, 2021, at 6:23 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> That's really cool - thanks.
> 
> Improvements ?   How much time do you have :-)
> 
> 1. Visual display of contagion zone while running.
> 
> 2. Recovery. After being infected for some length of time, an individual 
> stops being infectious; either it dies, and becomes a static black dot, or 
> recovers and becomes a white dot again. Probably different times for each of 
> those to happen.  And obviously a control for the likelihood of recovery vs 
> death.
> 
> 3.  Probabilistic infection. Rather than always infect another which comes 
> within reach, make that a probability of infection.
> 
> 4. Viral load. Make the probability as above follow a bell curve over time, 
> as the individual becomes more infected, then recovers.
> 
> 5. Simulate superspreader events. Maybe introduce short-term "gravity" that 
> attracts individuals within a range together - and hence if one is already 
> infected they infects lots of others.
> 
> And I could go on almost forever :-)
> Thinking of features is orders of magnitude easier and quicker than 
> implementing them :-)
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Alex.
> 
> 
> On 29/12/2021 03:37, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> I just uploaded a stack called “Infection" to Sample Stacks which might be a 
>> little fun (in a scary way) for some of you. It’s a Monte Carlo simulation 
>> wherein a number of individuals randomly moving about in an enclosed space, 
>> are infected by a single randomly infected individual. I welcome any 
>> feedback that might lead to more accuracy in or improvement to this model.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Roger
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Infection Simulation

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

I just uploaded a stack called “Infection" to Sample Stacks which might be a 
little fun (in a scary way) for some of you. It’s a Monte Carlo simulation 
wherein a number of individuals randomly moving about in an enclosed space, are 
infected by a single randomly infected individual. I welcome any feedback that 
might lead to more accuracy in or improvement to this model.

Cheers,
Roger
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Re: Reading LC List Digests

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Yup, I read that those infected by Omicron tend to misspell it!!

Roger

> On Dec 2, 2021, at 9:13 AM, Robert Earp via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sorry about the bad header on my last post, but maybe that is yet another 
> indication of the requirement for a decent list digests reader, at least for 
> old dudes, or do I blame it on Omricon !!
> 
> 
> ~
> Sorry Jacqueline and Curry, I should have sent an acknowledgement of your 
> previous speedy response to my question.
> 
> Jacqueline and Bob, in Apple Mail I can only find an option for plain text 
> when composing mail, not receiving mail, but you can choose the font used to 
> display a message.  I normally use Lucida Sans as its cross platform (from 
> what I understand), but I have tried many others such as Courier to no avail. 
>  Regardless, I don’t think mail clients are designed to handle mail lists in 
> an intuitive manner, which is why I asked my original question looking for a 
> “great” GUI hopefully in LC ;-)
> 
> Thanks again and kind regards, Bob...
> 
> Robert (Bob) Earp
> White Rock
> British Columbia
> Canada
> 
> 
>> On Dec 1, 2021, at 09:00, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> From: Bob Sneidar > >
>> To: How to use LiveCode > >
>> Subject: Re: Reading LC List Digests
>> Message-ID: > >
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> Yes it does. I use Apple Mail in this way and it works fine.
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 19, 2021, at 8:36 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> > > >> wrote:
>> 
>> I'm not sure why you're getting garbage in the posts. I have Thunderbird set 
>> to show posts as text-only and I don't see the problem. I've never much 
>> liked Apple Mail so I'm not familiar with its features but maybe it has 
>> something similar to the above.
>> 
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com 
>> > >
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Control of Text Fields.

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Alex and Richmond,

This discussion has been very helpful. Thank you! Please see my latest post on 
the forums where I offer my Formulator stack that seems to work, partly I think 
because I don’t lock the text of the multiple fields in my stack. Who woulda 
thunk?

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7=36444 


Cheers,

Roger


> On Nov 7, 2021, at 5:51 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 07/11/2021 11:36, Richmond via use-livecode wrote:
>> No hard feelings.
>> 
>> See what I have got up to over on the Forums, and
>> 
>> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7=36444
>> 
>> PLEASE, feel free to pull the thing to bits.
>> 
> I don't want to "pull the thing to bits". Like you, I enjoy seeing 
> "competing" multitude of ways to do things - I can learn from them all.
> 
> But I did have a quick look, so I'll just point out a small number of 
> nitpicks.
> 
> 1. the whole 'locktext' thing is weird, and causes various anomalies.
> When I first open the stack, and click in the field, I can type digits and 
> have them appear in the field, as you'd expect. But once I've clicked on an 
> 'arrow-emulator' the field becomes locked and one can no longer type in 
> characters.  Clicking *outside* the field will then free it up again, so 
> typing becomes possible.
> 
> 2. disappearing iBeam.
> 
> If I position the ibeam in the middle of the text in the field, and use one 
> of the arrow emulator buttons, the iBeam  moves properly - but then 
> disappears (perhaps when the 'locktext' is set true).
> 
> 3. incorrect entry position.
> 
> As in 2 above, although the ibeam was last seen in the correct place after 
> using the ">" button to move it to the right, if I then click on a digit 
> button, that digit appears at the end of the field, not where it should have 
> gone
> 
> 4. Incorrect arrow key emulation (same problem as I mentioned in the previous 
> email).
> 
> If you select a chunk of text in the field, then use the left-arrow emulator 
> button, the ibeam is positioned before the *last* character of the selection, 
> instead of before the first.
> 
> 
> There were a couple of others, omitted for brevity. I've created a modified 
> version your stack with my suggested handlers, and will attempt to upload it 
> to the forum later.
> 
> Then there was another issue which I haven't tackled - it would mean changing 
> lots of very similar tiny scripts, and is too tedious.
> 
> 5. character input should replace any selection
> 
> Just like in a regular field, if there is an active selection, typing a 
> character (or clicking a digit button, should *replace* it, not simply add 
> the newly typed (or clicked) digit.
> 
> 
> I've taken my earlier handler suggestion, and broken the bits of code out 
> into individual button scripts, which removes the apparent complexity that 
> you disliked earlier. As far as I know, no problems have yet been found with 
> that approach. As one example, the code for left-arrow emulator would be
> 
>>  on mouseUp
>>focus on field "fWORK"
>>put word 2 of the selectedchunk into tFirst
>>put word 4 of the selectedchunk into tLast
>>select before char (min(tFirst, tLast)) of fld "fWORK"
>> end mouseUp
> I've uploaded this revised version on the forum thread.
> 
> Best wishes,  Alex
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Control of Text Fields.

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Thank you so much, Alex. This indeed does the trick. And thanks also to 
Richmond and Klaus for spending time on this.

Roger





> On Nov 5, 2021, at 2:08 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 05/11/2021 20:18, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> Alex, I did not see that and it is not in my mailbox. Would you please send 
>> it again?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Roger
> 
> Here it is again, below.
> 
> Or download the sample stack at 
> https://tweedly.org/downloads/calcbuttons.livecode
> 
>  - not as pretty as Richmond's, doesn't even have all the digits ...)
> 
> Previously I said:
> 
> Here's an expanded snippet. The input is in a field called "fInput", the 
> buttons are all in a group, and handled by the group script (saves having 
> many tiny almost identical scripts).
> 
> The script  uses the name of the target - but since I would never, ever have 
> a control named as a number, the digit buttons use their label instead.
> 
> If the user cannot select a chunk of text then some of this could be 
> shortened.
> 
> 
>> on mouseup
>>if the target = me then
>>   -- click in the background in the group
>>   exit mouseup
>>end if
>>local tChunk
>>focus on fld "fInput"
>>put the selectedchunk into tChunk
>>if the label of the target is a number then
>>   put the label of the target into the selectedchunk
>>   exit mouseUp
>>end if
>>local tFirst, tLast
>>put word 2 of tChunk into tFirst
>>put word 4 of tChunk into tLast
>>switch the short name of the target
>>   case "go left"
>>  select before char (min(tFirst, tLast)) of fld "fInput"
>>  break
>>   case  "go right"
>>  select after char (max(tFirst, tLast)) of fld "fInput"
>>  break
>>   case "Del"
>>  -- remove the selection, or the char *after* the ibeam
>>  if tFirst <= tLast then
>> put empty into char tFirst to tLast of fld "fInput"
>>  else
>> put empty into char (tFirst) of fld "fInput"
>>  end if
>>  break
>>   case "BS"
>>  -- remove the selection, or the char *before* the ibeam
>>  if tFirst <= tLast then
>> put empty into char tFirst to tLast of fld "fInput"
>>  else
>> put empty into char (tFirst-1) of fld "fInput"
>>  end if
>>  break
>>  -- all the other keys !!
>>   default
>>end switch
>> end mouseup
> 
> Alex.
> 
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Re: Control of Text Fields.

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Is that unicode? If so how do I use it? Never done that before.

Roger

> On Nov 5, 2021, at 12:02 PM, Richmond via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Then, surely you want to implement the FORWARD delete key: 65535

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Re: Control of Text Fields.

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Alex, I did not see that and it is not in my mailbox. Would you please send it 
again?

Thanks,
Roger

> On Nov 5, 2021, at 12:49 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Roger. Don't know if you've seen the script I posted around 6 hour ago 
> ("expanded snippet").
> 
> It does the correct forward / backward key movements, and also implements 
> both "backspace" (delete the char to the left of the iBeam) and "delete" 
> (remove the char to the right of the ibeam) as well as properly handling the 
> case where there is a text selection rather than just an ibeam (i.e. both 
> delete the selection, but not any characters outside that selection).
> 
> Alex..
> 
> 
> On 05/11/2021 18:37, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> Very good, Richmond. It’s impressive how quickly you piss around! And, it’s 
>> close but no cigar . The arrow keys on the keyboard move the ibeam in a 
>> field w/o highlighting any text. And, the Delete key deletes the char in 
>> front of the iBeam. I thought this would be easy to duplicate in LC, but 
>> maybe not??.
>> 
>> Why do I want to emulate these keys? Well at this point, It has become a 
>> challenge and I like challenges. BTW, the calculator that I am inspired to 
>> replicate is found in Mac Good Grapher which is bundled with the Mac. The 
>> Good Grapher Calculator has back and forward buttons and a Delete button 
>> that operate exactly as the keyboard ones
>> 
>> Thanks for playing with this,
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Nov 5, 2021, at 10:15 AM, Richmond via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Pissed around a bit:
>>> 
>>> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7=36444
>>> 
>>> Love, Richmond.
>>> 
>>> On 5.11.21 15:59, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> I want them to do exactly the same thing that the keyboard keys do!! IOW, 
>>>> I want to emulate the delete key and the back and forward keys.
>>>> 
>>>> Roger
>>>> 
>>>>> On Nov 5, 2021, at 12:33 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Surely the script depends on what you want those buttons to do.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, 5 Nov 2021 03:41 Roger Guay via use-livecode, <
>>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks, Alex. Sorry I didn’t make myself clear. I’m building a calculator
>>>>>> stack with forward and back arrow buttons and a Delete button. What's the
>>>>>> script for these buttons?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Roger
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Nov 4, 2021, at 5:53 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <
>>>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Roger,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'm not sure I properly understand your question.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> here's a code snippet the moves the insertion point (in this sample,
>>>>>> typing an 'f' moves it forward, 'b' moves it back). (Note this also works
>>>>>> if there is some text selected - it moves the insertion to just after the
>>>>>> selection, just like the arrow key does).
>>>>>>>> on keydown p
>>>>>>>>   local t
>>>>>>>>   switch p
>>>>>>>>  case  "f"
>>>>>>>> put word 4 of the selectedchunk into t
>>>>>>>> select after char (t+1) of me
>>>>>>>> break
>>>>>>>>  case "b"
>>>>>>>> put word 2 of the selectedchunk into t
>>>>>>>> select before char (t-1) of me
>>>>>>>> break
>>>>>>>>   end  switch
>>>>>>>> end keydown
>>>>>>> To then delete the char in front of it, you'd do something like
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>   put empty into char (t+1) of me
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hope that's close enough to what you were asking, or at least gives you
>>>>>> a starting place  :-),
>>>>>>> Alex.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 04/11/2021 20:49, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>>>> I simply want to be able to move the inserti

Re: Control of Text Fields.

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Very good, Richmond. It’s impressive how quickly you piss around! And, it’s 
close but no cigar . The arrow keys on the keyboard move the ibeam in a field 
w/o highlighting any text. And, the Delete key deletes the char in front of the 
iBeam. I thought this would be easy to duplicate in LC, but maybe not??.

Why do I want to emulate these keys? Well at this point, It has become a 
challenge and I like challenges. BTW, the calculator that I am inspired to 
replicate is found in Mac Good Grapher which is bundled with the Mac. The Good 
Grapher Calculator has back and forward buttons and a Delete button that 
operate exactly as the keyboard ones

Thanks for playing with this,

Roger

> On Nov 5, 2021, at 10:15 AM, Richmond via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Pissed around a bit:
> 
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7=36444
> 
> Love, Richmond.
> 
> On 5.11.21 15:59, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> I want them to do exactly the same thing that the keyboard keys do!! IOW, I 
>> want to emulate the delete key and the back and forward keys.
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Nov 5, 2021, at 12:33 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Surely the script depends on what you want those buttons to do.
>>> 
>>> On Fri, 5 Nov 2021 03:41 Roger Guay via use-livecode, <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Thanks, Alex. Sorry I didn’t make myself clear. I’m building a calculator
>>>> stack with forward and back arrow buttons and a Delete button. What's the
>>>> script for these buttons?
>>>> 
>>>> Roger
>>>> 
>>>>> On Nov 4, 2021, at 5:53 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Roger,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm not sure I properly understand your question.
>>>>> 
>>>>> here's a code snippet the moves the insertion point (in this sample,
>>>> typing an 'f' moves it forward, 'b' moves it back). (Note this also works
>>>> if there is some text selected - it moves the insertion to just after the
>>>> selection, just like the arrow key does).
>>>>>> on keydown p
>>>>>>   local t
>>>>>>   switch p
>>>>>>  case  "f"
>>>>>> put word 4 of the selectedchunk into t
>>>>>> select after char (t+1) of me
>>>>>>     break
>>>>>>  case "b"
>>>>>> put word 2 of the selectedchunk into t
>>>>>> select before char (t-1) of me
>>>>>> break
>>>>>>   end  switch
>>>>>> end keydown
>>>>> To then delete the char in front of it, you'd do something like
>>>>> 
>>>>>   put empty into char (t+1) of me
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hope that's close enough to what you were asking, or at least gives you
>>>> a starting place  :-),
>>>>> Alex.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 04/11/2021 20:49, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>> I simply want to be able to move the insertion iBeam in a focused field
>>>> left and right, one char at a time (just like the left and right arrows
>>>> keys), and then to delete the char in front of it (just like the Delete
>>>> key). The dictionary was again of no use to me. Can someone please provide
>>>> sample scripts?
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Roger
>>>>>> ___
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
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>>>>> ___
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>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
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>>>> 
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>>>> subscription preferences:
>>&g

Re: Control of Text Fields.

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

I want them to do exactly the same thing that the keyboard keys do!! IOW, I 
want to emulate the delete key and the back and forward keys.

Roger

> On Nov 5, 2021, at 12:33 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Surely the script depends on what you want those buttons to do.
> 
> On Fri, 5 Nov 2021 03:41 Roger Guay via use-livecode, <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks, Alex. Sorry I didn’t make myself clear. I’m building a calculator
>> stack with forward and back arrow buttons and a Delete button. What's the
>> script for these buttons?
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Nov 4, 2021, at 5:53 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Roger,
>>> 
>>> I'm not sure I properly understand your question.
>>> 
>>> here's a code snippet the moves the insertion point (in this sample,
>> typing an 'f' moves it forward, 'b' moves it back). (Note this also works
>> if there is some text selected - it moves the insertion to just after the
>> selection, just like the arrow key does).
>>> 
>>>> on keydown p
>>>>   local t
>>>>   switch p
>>>>  case  "f"
>>>> put word 4 of the selectedchunk into t
>>>> select after char (t+1) of me
>>>> break
>>>>  case "b"
>>>> put word 2 of the selectedchunk into t
>>>> select before char (t-1) of me
>>>>     break
>>>>   end  switch
>>>> end keydown
>>> To then delete the char in front of it, you'd do something like
>>> 
>>>   put empty into char (t+1) of me
>>> 
>>> Hope that's close enough to what you were asking, or at least gives you
>> a starting place  :-),
>>> 
>>> Alex.
>>> 
>>> On 04/11/2021 20:49, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> I simply want to be able to move the insertion iBeam in a focused field
>> left and right, one char at a time (just like the left and right arrows
>> keys), and then to delete the char in front of it (just like the Delete
>> key). The dictionary was again of no use to me. Can someone please provide
>> sample scripts?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Roger
>>>> ___
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
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>> subscription preferences:
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Re: Control of Text Fields.

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Thanks, Alex. Sorry I didn’t make myself clear. I’m building a calculator stack 
with forward and back arrow buttons and a Delete button. What's the script for 
these buttons?

Roger

> On Nov 4, 2021, at 5:53 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Roger,
> 
> I'm not sure I properly understand your question.
> 
> here's a code snippet the moves the insertion point (in this sample, typing 
> an 'f' moves it forward, 'b' moves it back). (Note this also works if there 
> is some text selected - it moves the insertion to just after the selection, 
> just like the arrow key does).
> 
>> on keydown p
>>local t
>>switch p
>>   case  "f"
>>  put word 4 of the selectedchunk into t
>>  select after char (t+1) of me
>>  break
>>   case "b"
>>  put word 2 of the selectedchunk into t
>>  select before char (t-1) of me
>>  break
>>end  switch
>> end keydown
> To then delete the char in front of it, you'd do something like
> 
>put empty into char (t+1) of me
> 
> Hope that's close enough to what you were asking, or at least gives you a 
> starting place  :-),
> 
> Alex.
> 
> On 04/11/2021 20:49, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> I simply want to be able to move the insertion iBeam in a focused field left 
>> and right, one char at a time (just like the left and right arrows keys), 
>> and then to delete the char in front of it (just like the Delete key). The 
>> dictionary was again of no use to me. Can someone please provide sample 
>> scripts?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Roger
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
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> preferences:
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Re: Control of Text Fields.

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

I think you guys have accidentally hijacked my thread.

Roger

> On Nov 4, 2021, at 3:53 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Possibly memory corruption, but unlikely.  More likely a plugin or IDE 
> element with test code hanging around.
> 
> If only there was a way to trace message handlers so you could see where the 
> culprit lies...
> 
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2021-October/266125.html
> 
> :)
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systemsaccidentally
> 
> 
> Bob Sneidar wrote:
> 
>> I just searched for Carol in ANYTHING in ALL OBJECTS in my stack. The word 
>> Carol is in nothing. Memory corruption anyone???
>> Bob S
>>> On Nov 4, 2021, at 15:22 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode >> lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> OK I tried sending put the selectedChunk in one second in an openField 
>>> handler in a field. What I get... (you may want to sit down for this...) 
>>> is: Bob
>>> Carol
>>> That exists precicely NO WHERE IN MY APPLICATION! Bob S
> 
> 
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Control of Text Fields.

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

I simply want to be able to move the insertion iBeam in a focused field left 
and right, one char at a time (just like the left and right arrows keys), and 
then to delete the char in front of it (just like the Delete key). The 
dictionary was again of no use to me. Can someone please provide sample scripts?

Thanks,
Roger
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Re: Lemniscate Polygon

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

And thank you, Richmond for implementing what for me was overnight. Very nice 
clean and simple code too!!

Roger

> On Nov 3, 2021, at 1:39 AM, Richmond via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7=36429
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> On 3.11.21 9:29, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi Roger,
>> 
>> On 2021-11-02 22:27, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Dear List,
>>> 
>>> Bernd has produced an absolutely beautiful animation using a
>>> Lemniskate polygon that was previously provided by Hermann Hoch. Can
>>> anyone provide some help on how to create this polygon mathematically?
>>> Since the equation for a Lemniskate involves the SqRt of negative
>>> numbers, which is not allowed in LC, I am stumped.
>>> 
>>> You can find Bernd’s animation here:
>>> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=10=36412
>>> <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=10=36412>
>> 
>> In general lemniscates are defined as the roots of a specific kind of 
>> quartic (power four) polynomials of the pattern:
>> 
>> (x^2 + y^2)^2 - cx^2 - dy^2 = 0
>> 
>> So the algorithms for solving them you are probably finding are more general 
>> 'quartic polynomial' solvers - just like solving quadratic equations, the 
>> full set of solutions can only be computed if you flip into the complex 
>> plane (i.e. where sqrt(-1) exists) rather than the real plane.
>> 
>> However, there is at least one type of Lemniscate for which there is a nice 
>> parametric form - Bernoulli's lemniscate, which is a slightly simpler 
>> equation:
>> 
>> (x^2 + y^2)^2 - 2a^2(x^2 - y^2) = 0
>> 
>> According to https://mathworld.wolfram.com/Lemniscate.html, this can be 
>> parameterized as:
>> 
>> x = (a * cos(t)) / (1 + sin(t)^2)
>> 
>> y = (a * sin(t) * cos(t)) / (1 + sin(t)^2)
>> 
>> Its not clear what the range of t is from the article, but I suspect it will 
>> be -pi <= t <= pi (or any 2*pi length range).
>> 
>> So a simple repeat loop where N is the number of steps you want to take, and 
>> A is the 'scale' of the lemniscate should give you the points you want:
>> 
>> repeat with t = -pi to pi step (2*pi / N)
>>put A * cos(t) / (1 + sin(t)^2) into X
>>put A * sin(t) * cos(t) / (1 + sin(t)^2) into Y
>>put X, Y & return after POINTS
>> end repeat
>> 
>> Warmest Regards,
>> 
>> Mark.
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: Lemniscate Polygon

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Thank you, Mark. That was exactly the answer I was looking for!

Roger

> On Nov 3, 2021, at 12:29 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Roger,
> 
> On 2021-11-02 22:27, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> Dear List,
>> Bernd has produced an absolutely beautiful animation using a
>> Lemniskate polygon that was previously provided by Hermann Hoch. Can
>> anyone provide some help on how to create this polygon mathematically?
>> Since the equation for a Lemniskate involves the SqRt of negative
>> numbers, which is not allowed in LC, I am stumped.
>> You can find Bernd’s animation here:
>> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=10=36412
>> <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=10=36412>
> 
> In general lemniscates are defined as the roots of a specific kind of quartic 
> (power four) polynomials of the pattern:
> 
>(x^2 + y^2)^2 - cx^2 - dy^2 = 0
> 
> So the algorithms for solving them you are probably finding are more general 
> 'quartic polynomial' solvers - just like solving quadratic equations, the 
> full set of solutions can only be computed if you flip into the complex plane 
> (i.e. where sqrt(-1) exists) rather than the real plane.
> 
> However, there is at least one type of Lemniscate for which there is a nice 
> parametric form - Bernoulli's lemniscate, which is a slightly simpler 
> equation:
> 
>(x^2 + y^2)^2 - 2a^2(x^2 - y^2) = 0
> 
> According to https://mathworld.wolfram.com/Lemniscate.html, this can be 
> parameterized as:
> 
>x = (a * cos(t)) / (1 + sin(t)^2)
> 
>y = (a * sin(t) * cos(t)) / (1 + sin(t)^2)
> 
> Its not clear what the range of t is from the article, but I suspect it will 
> be -pi <= t <= pi (or any 2*pi length range).
> 
> So a simple repeat loop where N is the number of steps you want to take, and 
> A is the 'scale' of the lemniscate should give you the points you want:
> 
>repeat with t = -pi to pi step (2*pi / N)
>   put A * cos(t) / (1 + sin(t)^2) into X
>   put A * sin(t) * cos(t) / (1 + sin(t)^2) into Y
>   put X, Y & return after POINTS
>end repeat
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
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Re: Lemniscate Polygon

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Yes, I suppose so. Even easier would be to modify the points of a polygon 
generated from R = 10*sin(theta)*cos(theta) in polar coordinates (a four leaf 
clover type), but I’m hoping to avoid that.
Thanks,
Roger

> On Nov 2, 2021, at 3:43 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> For the infinity symbol polygon, wouldn't a possible way to do this is by 
> modeling a tear drop (see http://paulbourke.net/geometry/teardrop/ which does 
> not require imaginary numbers) and duplicating the points with opposite signs 
> for the other half?
> 
> On 11/2/2021 6:27 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> Dear List,
>> 
>> Bernd has produced an absolutely beautiful animation using a Lemniskate 
>> polygon that was previously provided by Hermann Hoch. Can anyone provide 
>> some help on how to create this polygon mathematically? Since the equation 
>> for a Lemniskate involves the SqRt of negative numbers, which is not allowed 
>> in LC, I am stumped.
>> 
>> You can find Bernd’s animation here: 
>> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=10=36412 
>> <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=10=36412>
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Roger
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Lemniscate Polygon

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Dear List,

Bernd has produced an absolutely beautiful animation using a Lemniskate polygon 
that was previously provided by Hermann Hoch. Can anyone provide some help on 
how to create this polygon mathematically? Since the equation for a Lemniskate 
involves the SqRt of negative numbers, which is not allowed in LC, I am 
stumped. 

You can find Bernd’s animation here: 
https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=10=36412 


Thanks,
Roger
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Re: widget store

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

tmAlign still works in LC 9.6.4 and Mac OS 12. I love it and use it all the 
time.

Roger

> On Nov 1, 2021, at 1:57 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> TM Align is a really handy tool for aligning/spacing objects on your card. It 
> has a few things the property inspector alignment tab does not do, and you 
> don't have to keep re-selecting the alignment tab in the property editor 
> every time you close and re-open it. 
> 
> Scott sent me the latest one he has (or told me where to get it) so mine so 
> far as I know still works. I haven't done any design work in quite a while. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Nov 1, 2021, at 12:06 , Tom Glod via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I think thats it Mike.  I would be shocked to find out there is another one
>> widget store.
>> What does tmc2 do ?
> 
> 
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Re: The release notes mean what they say

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Love this! Thank you, Jacqueline.



> On Oct 16, 2021, at 2:24 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Then shalt thou count to 12.5, no more, no less. 12.5 shall be the number 
> thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be 12.5. 12.5.1 shalt 
> thou not count, neither count thou 11.3, excepting that thou then proceed to 
> 12.5. 12.6 is right out.

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Re: [ANN] bnGuides has been updated

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

bnGuides is unobtrusive and efficient, cute even. I like it a lot!

I added a script to alternately collapse and expand it making it even more 
unobtrusive.

When it comes to UI design, you never get a second chance to make to make a 
first impression!

Thank you, Bernd

Roger



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Re: Sample stacks / revOnline [was: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition]

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

This is really nice and fast, Alex. Thanks again for doing this as I’ve always 
felt that LC’s Sample Stacks is a great and often overlooked resource save for 
it’s interface. I note that "Log In" and "Sign Up" do not work. Is there any 
value in those items?

Roger

> On Sep 30, 2021, at 10:05 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hmmm ... not sure why.
> 
> Easy way : https://www.tweedly.org/Downloads/samplestacks.livecode
> 
> Or: start the IDE, and  in the toolbar (4th or so from the right) is "Sample 
> Stacks".
> 
> Then
> 
>  - select "View as: List"
> 
>  - select "All" on left hand side
> 
>  - select "Sort by: Date"
> 
>  - then reverse order the sort - and it's the most recent one !!
> 
> 
> Or - select "Plugin" in the tags column (5th one down), then type "sample" in 
> the search box and hit "Go"
> 
> Alex.
> 
> 
> On 30/09/2021 16:17, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> This sounds absolutely wonderful, Alex, except I can’t find it as you 
>> described.
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Sep 30, 2021, at 7:27 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 30/09/2021 15:02, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> On 06/09/2021 15:14, Kevin Miller via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Upgrading this could be a very useful project. There is a lot of content 
>>>>> in there but it has the issues you list.
>>> So I had a look at what could be done just within the IDE for revonline. 
>>> There's an old joke about a tourist in Ireland who realizes she(*) is lost, 
>>> and ask for directions from an old farmer at the side of the road. "Well", 
>>> says he, "if I wanted to go there, I wouldn't start from here."
>>> 
>>> I found the revonline scripts rather complex, and I couldn't easily see how 
>>> to solve the issues mentioned previously, in that context. And the bottom 
>>> line is that it's not a complex problem that needs to be solved. The login 
>>> / register / upload features all work just fine - the problems are with the 
>>> searching / browsing / filtering, and are generally related to either 
>>> (very) poor performance or unclear UI.
>>> 
>>> In the end, I just couldn't produce worthwhile improvements, so instead I 
>>> wrote a plugin that handles the searching / filtering / browsing / 
>>> downloading parts, and which omits the login/upload parts entirely.
>>> 
>>> It can be downloaded from "Sample Stacks" in the IDE toolbar (it's called 
>>> "Sample Stacks" and is tagged as IDE and Plugin). Install as a plugin in 
>>> the usual way.
>>> 
>>> UI is very similar to the existing IDE version - simplified a bit.
>>> 
>>>  - search box automatically (and immediately) updates as you type, so the 
>>> "Go" button was removed
>>> 
>>> - everything happens in < 1 second, so the progress bar was removed.
>>> 
>>>  - the grid/list choice was removed (the old 'list' stye was hard to use or 
>>> understand)
>>> 
>>>  -  tags in the left-hand box are alphabetized
>>> 
>>>  - the grid is a single long scrolling group, rather than being paged and 
>>> scrolled
>>> 
>>> There is one issue I haven;t tracked down yet - sometimes the scrolling 
>>> using mousepad doesn't work initially; scrolling with the scrollbar seems 
>>> to be enough to "revive" it.
>>> 
>>> Let me know if you try it and have any problems or suggestions.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>>> Alex.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> (*) "she" is not sexist - had it been a man he would never have admitted to 
>>> being lost and so would never have asked the question :-)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
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>> 
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Re: Sample stacks / revOnline [was: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition]

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Ah, it worked this time. I thought one might need your plugin to find your 
plugin….

Thanks,

Roger

> On Sep 30, 2021, at 10:05 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hmmm ... not sure why.
> 
> Easy way : https://www.tweedly.org/Downloads/samplestacks.livecode
> 
> Or: start the IDE, and  in the toolbar (4th or so from the right) is "Sample 
> Stacks".
> 
> Then
> 
>  - select "View as: List"
> 
>  - select "All" on left hand side
> 
>  - select "Sort by: Date"
> 
>  - then reverse order the sort - and it's the most recent one !!
> 
> 
> Or - select "Plugin" in the tags column (5th one down), then type "sample" in 
> the search box and hit "Go"
> 
> Alex.
> 
> 
> On 30/09/2021 16:17, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> This sounds absolutely wonderful, Alex, except I can’t find it as you 
>> described.
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Sep 30, 2021, at 7:27 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 30/09/2021 15:02, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> On 06/09/2021 15:14, Kevin Miller via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Upgrading this could be a very useful project. There is a lot of content 
>>>>> in there but it has the issues you list.
>>> So I had a look at what could be done just within the IDE for revonline. 
>>> There's an old joke about a tourist in Ireland who realizes she(*) is lost, 
>>> and ask for directions from an old farmer at the side of the road. "Well", 
>>> says he, "if I wanted to go there, I wouldn't start from here."
>>> 
>>> I found the revonline scripts rather complex, and I couldn't easily see how 
>>> to solve the issues mentioned previously, in that context. And the bottom 
>>> line is that it's not a complex problem that needs to be solved. The login 
>>> / register / upload features all work just fine - the problems are with the 
>>> searching / browsing / filtering, and are generally related to either 
>>> (very) poor performance or unclear UI.
>>> 
>>> In the end, I just couldn't produce worthwhile improvements, so instead I 
>>> wrote a plugin that handles the searching / filtering / browsing / 
>>> downloading parts, and which omits the login/upload parts entirely.
>>> 
>>> It can be downloaded from "Sample Stacks" in the IDE toolbar (it's called 
>>> "Sample Stacks" and is tagged as IDE and Plugin). Install as a plugin in 
>>> the usual way.
>>> 
>>> UI is very similar to the existing IDE version - simplified a bit.
>>> 
>>>  - search box automatically (and immediately) updates as you type, so the 
>>> "Go" button was removed
>>> 
>>> - everything happens in < 1 second, so the progress bar was removed.
>>> 
>>>  - the grid/list choice was removed (the old 'list' stye was hard to use or 
>>> understand)
>>> 
>>>  -  tags in the left-hand box are alphabetized
>>> 
>>>  - the grid is a single long scrolling group, rather than being paged and 
>>> scrolled
>>> 
>>> There is one issue I haven;t tracked down yet - sometimes the scrolling 
>>> using mousepad doesn't work initially; scrolling with the scrollbar seems 
>>> to be enough to "revive" it.
>>> 
>>> Let me know if you try it and have any problems or suggestions.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>>> Alex.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> (*) "she" is not sexist - had it been a man he would never have admitted to 
>>> being lost and so would never have asked the question :-)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
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Re: Sample stacks / revOnline [was: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition]

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

There’s an old joke about a tourist in Maine asking a local for directions and 
an old farmer says “You can’t get theya from hereya”.

Roger

> On Sep 30, 2021, at 8:17 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> This sounds absolutely wonderful, Alex, except I can’t find it as you 
> described. 
> 
> Roger
> 
>> On Sep 30, 2021, at 7:27 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On 30/09/2021 15:02, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:
>>> On 06/09/2021 15:14, Kevin Miller via use-livecode wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Upgrading this could be a very useful project. There is a lot of content 
>>>> in there but it has the issues you list.
>> 
>> So I had a look at what could be done just within the IDE for revonline. 
>> There's an old joke about a tourist in Ireland who realizes she(*) is lost, 
>> and ask for directions from an old farmer at the side of the road. "Well", 
>> says he, "if I wanted to go there, I wouldn't start from here."
>> 
>> I found the revonline scripts rather complex, and I couldn't easily see how 
>> to solve the issues mentioned previously, in that context. And the bottom 
>> line is that it's not a complex problem that needs to be solved. The login / 
>> register / upload features all work just fine - the problems are with the 
>> searching / browsing / filtering, and are generally related to either (very) 
>> poor performance or unclear UI.
>> 
>> In the end, I just couldn't produce worthwhile improvements, so instead I 
>> wrote a plugin that handles the searching / filtering / browsing / 
>> downloading parts, and which omits the login/upload parts entirely.
>> 
>> It can be downloaded from "Sample Stacks" in the IDE toolbar (it's called 
>> "Sample Stacks" and is tagged as IDE and Plugin). Install as a plugin in the 
>> usual way.
>> 
>> UI is very similar to the existing IDE version - simplified a bit.
>> 
>> - search box automatically (and immediately) updates as you type, so the 
>> "Go" button was removed
>> 
>> - everything happens in < 1 second, so the progress bar was removed.
>> 
>> - the grid/list choice was removed (the old 'list' stye was hard to use or 
>> understand)
>> 
>> -  tags in the left-hand box are alphabetized
>> 
>> - the grid is a single long scrolling group, rather than being paged and 
>> scrolled
>> 
>> There is one issue I haven;t tracked down yet - sometimes the scrolling 
>> using mousepad doesn't work initially; scrolling with the scrollbar seems to 
>> be enough to "revive" it.
>> 
>> Let me know if you try it and have any problems or suggestions.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Alex.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> (*) "she" is not sexist - had it been a man he would never have admitted to 
>> being lost and so would never have asked the question :-)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
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Re: Sample stacks / revOnline [was: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition]

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

This sounds absolutely wonderful, Alex, except I can’t find it as you 
described. 

Roger

> On Sep 30, 2021, at 7:27 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 30/09/2021 15:02, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:
>> On 06/09/2021 15:14, Kevin Miller via use-livecode wrote:
>> 
>>> Upgrading this could be a very useful project. There is a lot of content in 
>>> there but it has the issues you list.
> 
> So I had a look at what could be done just within the IDE for revonline. 
> There's an old joke about a tourist in Ireland who realizes she(*) is lost, 
> and ask for directions from an old farmer at the side of the road. "Well", 
> says he, "if I wanted to go there, I wouldn't start from here."
> 
> I found the revonline scripts rather complex, and I couldn't easily see how 
> to solve the issues mentioned previously, in that context. And the bottom 
> line is that it's not a complex problem that needs to be solved. The login / 
> register / upload features all work just fine - the problems are with the 
> searching / browsing / filtering, and are generally related to either (very) 
> poor performance or unclear UI.
> 
> In the end, I just couldn't produce worthwhile improvements, so instead I 
> wrote a plugin that handles the searching / filtering / browsing / 
> downloading parts, and which omits the login/upload parts entirely.
> 
> It can be downloaded from "Sample Stacks" in the IDE toolbar (it's called 
> "Sample Stacks" and is tagged as IDE and Plugin). Install as a plugin in the 
> usual way.
> 
> UI is very similar to the existing IDE version - simplified a bit.
> 
>  - search box automatically (and immediately) updates as you type, so the 
> "Go" button was removed
> 
> - everything happens in < 1 second, so the progress bar was removed.
> 
>  - the grid/list choice was removed (the old 'list' stye was hard to use or 
> understand)
> 
>  -  tags in the left-hand box are alphabetized
> 
>  - the grid is a single long scrolling group, rather than being paged and 
> scrolled
> 
> There is one issue I haven;t tracked down yet - sometimes the scrolling using 
> mousepad doesn't work initially; scrolling with the scrollbar seems to be 
> enough to "revive" it.
> 
> Let me know if you try it and have any problems or suggestions.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Alex.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (*) "she" is not sexist - had it been a man he would never have admitted to 
> being lost and so would never have asked the question :-)
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Sounds like a very cool idea to me, but I’m sure it’s complicated! I trust LC 
to do what’s best for its future.

Roger


> On Sep 2, 2021, at 7:34 AM, Keith Martin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think this is (potentially) an excellent idea. Running stacks is more 
> important in education use than building standalones, and the knowledge that 
> a standalone CAN be made by simply ’trading up’ to a paid-for version of LC 
> might be an interesting sell. But I would be surprised if this sort of thing 
> hasn’t already been considered.
> 
> k
> 
> 
>> On 2 Sep 2021, at 15:20, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> This is a good idea. I sometimes use the IDE to do a quickie text
>> manipulation task. A couple of buttons and some text file/db processing and
>> BOOM! It's done in the fraction of the time of other languages. I have now
>> done some text chunk coding that highlights many of LCs features. I can now
>> buy a platform or two If I want to expand the IDE to building distributable
>> apps.
>> 
>> Ralph DiMola
>> IT Director
>> Evergreen Information Services
>> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
>> Of Michael Kristensen via use-livecode
>> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 9:50 AM
>> To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Cc: Michael Kristensen
>> Subject: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>> 
>> Hi there
>> 
>> I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>> 
>> That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.
>> 
>> Michael
>> 
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Re: Annoying double parens, brackets and quotes

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

I can well imagine. Thank you, Mark!

Roger

> On Aug 3, 2021, at 3:19 AM, Richmond via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> That feature is a real pain-in-the-bum when teaching.
> 
> On 3.08.21 г. 4:13, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> Could someone please tell me how to turn off the double parens, brackets and 
>> quotes in the script editor? IOW when I type ( , I don’t want ( ).
>> 
>> Thanks very much!!
>> 
>> Roger
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Annoying double parens, brackets and quotes

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Could someone please tell me how to turn off the double parens, brackets and 
quotes in the script editor? IOW when I type ( , I don’t want ( ).

Thanks very much!!

Roger
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Re: 3-way slider control

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Nice! I like the idea of this because it gets the readout away from the cursor 
so that you can read it.

Roger

> On May 25, 2021, at 11:18 AM, Richmond via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sorry: went a bit bonkers:
> 
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7=35903
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> On 25.05.21 20:23, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> Ah yes, I knew that but had forgotten it. Thank you, Klaus!
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On May 25, 2021, at 10:11 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi freinds,
>>> 
>>> this - ≥
>>> is a MAC-only character and will throw an error on Windows!
>>> Use/replace with:
>>> <=
>>>> =
>>> <>
>>> for full platform comatibilty!
>>> 
>>>> Am 25.05.2021 um 19:06 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>> :
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Paul, I’m not able to duplicate the error here. Can you tell what 
>>>> control you were adjusting?
>>>> 
>>>> You should be able to achieve what you want by changing the ‘backBar” grc 
>>>> style from roundrect to oval. You might have to play with the code a bit, 
>>>> but it should work.
>>>> 
>>>> Roger
>>>>> Thank you. ScrollbarOmatic looks like I could adjust setting to get 
>>>>> something closer to a "circle inside an oval" 3-position switch. FYI as I 
>>>>> was adjusting the controls to get the style I am seeking the following 
>>>>> error popped up:
>>>>> 
>>>>> *compiling at 11:34:54 AM*
>>>>> 
>>>>> Type Expression: bad factor
>>>>> 
>>>>> Object backBar
>>>>> 
>>>>> Line if tx ≥ tIndEndPos then
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hint ≥
>>>>> 
>>>>> I did not seem to actually impact continue to refine the appearance.
>>> Best
>>> 
>>> Klaus
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Klaus Major
>>> https://www.major-k.de
>>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>>> kl...@major-k.de
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> subscription preferences:
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Re: 3-way slider control

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Ah yes, I knew that but had forgotten it. Thank you, Klaus!

Roger

> On May 25, 2021, at 10:11 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi freinds,
> 
> this - ≥
> is a MAC-only character and will throw an error on Windows!
> Use/replace with:
> <=
>> =
> <>
> for full platform comatibilty!
> 
>> Am 25.05.2021 um 19:06 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> Hi Paul, I’m not able to duplicate the error here. Can you tell what control 
>> you were adjusting?
>> 
>> You should be able to achieve what you want by changing the ‘backBar” grc 
>> style from roundrect to oval. You might have to play with the code a bit, 
>> but it should work.
>> 
>> Roger
>>> 
>>> Thank you. ScrollbarOmatic looks like I could adjust setting to get 
>>> something closer to a "circle inside an oval" 3-position switch. FYI as I 
>>> was adjusting the controls to get the style I am seeking the following 
>>> error popped up:
>>> 
>>> *compiling at 11:34:54 AM*
>>> 
>>> Type Expression: bad factor
>>> 
>>> Object backBar
>>> 
>>> Line if tx ≥ tIndEndPos then
>>> 
>>> Hint ≥
>>> 
>>> I did not seem to actually impact continue to refine the appearance.
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> kl...@major-k.de
> 
> 
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Re: 3-way slider control

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Hi Paul, I’m not able to duplicate the error here. Can you tell what control 
you were adjusting?

You should be able to achieve what you want by changing the ‘backBar” grc style 
from roundrect to oval. You might have to play with the code a bit, but it 
should work.

Roger
> 
> Thank you. ScrollbarOmatic looks like I could adjust setting to get something 
> closer to a "circle inside an oval" 3-position switch. FYI as I was adjusting 
> the controls to get the style I am seeking the following error popped up:
> 
> *compiling at 11:34:54 AM*
> 
> Type Expression: bad factor
> 
> Object backBar
> 
> Line if tx ≥ tIndEndPos then
> 
> Hint ≥
> 
> I did not seem to actually impact continue to refine the appearance.
> 
> ___

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Re: 3-way slider control

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

And if you need color and stuff, you can download my ScrollbarOmatic under 
Roger Guay from Sample Stacks.

Roger

> On May 24, 2021, at 3:28 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 5/24/21 3:18 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I am looking to see if anyone has a 3-positions slider control they might be 
>> willing to share. I need a control that has a "left, middle, and Right" 
>> positions (whatever they are called). Prefer horizontal orientation and 
>> resizable so I can adjust the size to the screen area where it needs to go, 
>> but I can resize graphics if needed.
> 
> You can do this with LC's built-in horizontal scrollbar. Drag a Slider 
> control to the card. Set the start value to 1 and the end value to 3. By 
> default there will be numbers displayed but you can turn those off and use 
> labels underneath instead.
> 
> Put this script into the slider. It should make the slider snap to one of the 
> three positions:
> 
> 
> on scrollBarDrag
>  set the thumbPos of me to the thumbpos of me mod(4)
> end scrollBarDrag
> 
> If you want to change the color, use an effects overlay. None of the built-in 
> color properties apply.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
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Re: Problems with Multiple Monitors

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Good catch, Gabe. my menubar is set to the bottom MBP display, and didn’t think 
to mess with the menubar in the top display.

Thanks,
Roger

> On May 6, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Gabe J via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Oh, I think I see what the difference is: The screenRects will be in a
> different order depending on which screen the menubar is set to. So, when
> the menubar is set to the top screen, your script sends stack "revMenubar"
> to the bottom screen. I was running with the menubar set to be on the top
> screen. The solution would be to cycle through the working screenRects
> looking for the highest top.
> 
> Gabe
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 2:01 PM Gabe J  wrote:
> 
>> Yeah, "Displays have separate Spaces" is unchecked. Yes, your script is
>> moving stack "revMenubar" to near the top of the bottom screen when the top
>> and bottom screen are left-aligned, but since it is on the bottom screen
>> (below stacks on the top screen) the stacks above it on the top screen do
>> not work properly when manually moved. (LC 9.6.1 and macOS Catalina). The
>> solution is to just always move stack "revMenubar" to near the top of the
>> top screen.
>> 
>> Gabe
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 1:52 PM Roger Guay via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Huh . . . this is hard to understand since the script toggles revMenubar
>>> precisely to the top of one monitor or the other based on returned
>>> screenRects.
>>> 
>>> And, you unchecked the “Displays have separate Spaces” in the Mission
>>> Control System Prefs?
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>>> On May 6, 2021, at 11:39 AM, Gabe J via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> However, I just tried your script and it looks like it isn't working. I
>>>> have an external screen positioned above my laptop and it ran into the
>>> same
>>>> problem: Since stack "revMenubar" is positioned lower than some of the
>>>> stacks (when those stacks are on the top screen), the stacks will
>>> report as
>>>> being below their visual position (when manually moved), or they just
>>> jump
>>>> down to the bottom screen to be under stack "revMenubar" when I try to
>>>> position them on the top screen. I'm using LC 9.6.1.
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: Problems with Multiple Monitors

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Huh . . . this is hard to understand since the script toggles revMenubar 
precisely to the top of one monitor or the other based on returned screenRects.

And, you unchecked the “Displays have separate Spaces” in the Mission Control 
System Prefs?

Roger

> On May 6, 2021, at 11:39 AM, Gabe J via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> However, I just tried your script and it looks like it isn't working. I
> have an external screen positioned above my laptop and it ran into the same
> problem: Since stack "revMenubar" is positioned lower than some of the
> stacks (when those stacks are on the top screen), the stacks will report as
> being below their visual position (when manually moved), or they just jump
> down to the bottom screen to be under stack "revMenubar" when I try to
> position them on the top screen. I'm using LC 9.6.1.

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Re: Problems with Multiple Monitors

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Gabe, before delving deeply into your message, are you saying that my script 
does not work for you?

Roger

> On May 6, 2021, at 9:56 AM, Gabe J via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Also, the point of my previous email is that stack "revMenubar" seems to
> move around sometimes when you change multi-monitor configurations on Mac,
> which sets up the conditions for this issue.
> 
> Gabe
> 
> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 11:52 AM Gabe J  wrote:
> 
>> I've discovered that LiveCode (at least LC 9.6.1) seems to force the
>> reported top of a manually-moved stack to be the bottom of stack
>> "revMenubar" + 20, if the stack is overlapping revMenubar (even if
>> revMenubar is not visible), even if the visual top of the stack is higher
>> than that. All mouse clicks will be vertically off by whatever offset there
>> is between the bottom of stack "revMenubar" + 20 and the visual top of the
>> overlapping, manually-moved stack.
>> 
>> For example, if you were to run this:
>> 
>>set the bottom of stack "revMenubar" to 200
>> 
>> And then move a stack so that it overlaps revMenubar (manually moving the
>> stack seems to possibly be a necessary step), if you run "put the top of
>> ..." for that overlapping stack, it will be 220, even if it is visually
>> above 220, and mouse clicks in the stack will also be vertically off.
>> 
>> If I set the position of stack "revMenubar" so that its bottom is above
>> the highest working screenRect's top + 20 (or whatever the height of the
>> window's title bars are?), this issue can be avoided. I have made a handler
>> which does this when the screenRects change.
>> 
>> I ran into another potential bug where the bottom of a stack couldn't be
>> positioned in a certain area without it also reporting the top/mouseclicks
>> incorrectly on a second screen above my laptop's screen, but I haven't
>> figured out why that is, yet.
>> 
>> Gabe
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 9:58 AM Roger Guay via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Fred et al,
>>> 
>>> I use the following script to switch the monitor I wish to use for the
>>> revmenubar and revTools and then position pallets like my own rTools and
>>> tmAlign3. It is working quite nicely for me with my external monitor
>>> positioned above my MBP and “Displays have separate spaces” unchecked.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> on mouseUp
>>> 
>>> put the screenrects into tsr
>>> 
>>>if the number of lines of tsr = 2 then
>>> 
>>>if the left of stack revmenubar = item 1 of tsr then
>>> 
>>>set the left of stack revmenubar to item 1 of
>>> line 2 of tsr
>>> 
>>>set the top of stack revmenubar to item 2 of line
>>> 2 of tsr + 25
>>> 
>>>else
>>> 
>>>set the left of stack revmenubar to item 1 of tsr
>>> 
>>>set the top of stack revmenubar to item 2 of tsr
>>> + 25
>>> 
>>>end if
>>> 
>>>end if
>>> 
>>>positionPalletes
>>> 
>>>pass mouseUp
>>> 
>>> end mouseUp
>>> 
>>> 
>>> on positionPalletes
>>> 
>>>set the top of stack revtools to the bottom of stack revMenuBar +
>>> 20
>>> 
>>>set the left of stack revTools to the left of stack revmenubar
>>> 
>>>set the top of stack rtools to the bottom of stack revMenuBar + 20
>>> 
>>>set the left of stack rTools to the right of stack revtools
>>> 
>>>set the left of stack tmAlign3 to the right of stack revMenubar
>>> 
>>>set the top of stack tmAlign3 to the top of stack revMenubar
>>> 
>>> end positionPalletes
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> HTH,
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On May 6, 2021, at 1:41 AM, Fred Moyer via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 4, 2021, at 5:32 PM, Fred Moyer  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anyone having problems with multiple monitors and LC? I’m running
>>> 9.6.1 - Mac. I have a feeling LC is confused because I like to connect and
>>> disconne

Re: Problems with Multiple Monitors

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Hi Fred et al,

I use the following script to switch the monitor I wish to use for the 
revmenubar and revTools and then position pallets like my own rTools and 
tmAlign3. It is working quite nicely for me with my external monitor positioned 
above my MBP and “Displays have separate spaces” unchecked.


on mouseUp

put the screenrects into tsr

if the number of lines of tsr = 2 then

if the left of stack revmenubar = item 1 of tsr then

set the left of stack revmenubar to item 1 of line 2 of 
tsr

set the top of stack revmenubar to item 2 of line 2 of 
tsr + 25

else

set the left of stack revmenubar to item 1 of tsr

set the top of stack revmenubar to item 2 of tsr + 25

end if

end if

positionPalletes

pass mouseUp

end mouseUp


on positionPalletes

set the top of stack revtools to the bottom of stack revMenuBar + 20

set the left of stack revTools to the left of stack revmenubar

set the top of stack rtools to the bottom of stack revMenuBar + 20

set the left of stack rTools to the right of stack revtools

set the left of stack tmAlign3 to the right of stack revMenubar

set the top of stack tmAlign3 to the top of stack revMenubar

end positionPalletes



HTH,
Roger



> On May 6, 2021, at 1:41 AM, Fred Moyer via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 4, 2021, at 5:32 PM, Fred Moyer  wrote:
>> 
>> Anyone having problems with multiple monitors and LC? I’m running 9.6.1 - 
>> Mac. I have a feeling LC is confused because I like to connect and 
>> disconnect monitors from my MacBook Pro. (Even the MacOS sometimes gets 
>> confused.) But now LC is doing crazy things — even when no external monitors 
>> are connected. I’ll move the mouse to the top of a stack window, and ask for 
>> the Mouseloc and it will return something like "100,-60”. If I click a 
>> button in the middle of the stack, the click will register in an object the 
>> 60 pixels above that. It’s not always 60 — the wrongness changed as I move 
>> the stack around. Other times it works fine. I can’t find a pattern to set 
>> it off.
>> 
>> Any suggestions?
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Fred
>> 
>> 
> 
> Thanks everyone for the interesting replies. I learned a lot 
> (“desktopChanged", "the working screenrects,” difference between "the 
> screenrect" and "the screenrects," etc.) I have a hunch, though, my problem 
> may relate to stack RevMenubar and some accommodation the IDE makes for “the 
> mouseV” depending on whether RevMenubar is showing or whether you have your 
> own menubar or whether that screen has a menubar in it  —  I dunno. I’ve 
> never understood how this works. I notice sometimes, though, when I turn on 
> Toolbar Text, it shows up about 100 or 200 pixels down.
> 
> Fred
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Re: Problems with Multiple Monitors

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

I hear ya, but with this list we Illegitimi non carborundum!

Roger

> On May 5, 2021, at 4:36 AM, Martin Koob via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I will have to deal with reprogramming the wetware and the muscle memory 
> which at my age may be a much more difficult process. The ole wetware ain’t 
> as moist and flexible as it once was ;-)

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Re: Problems with Multiple Monitors

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Use the plural of Screenrect … Screenrects. This returns a Screenrect for each 
monitor connected. 

Roger


> On May 4, 2021, at 5:20 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Paul Dupuis wrote:
> 
> > With multiple monitor, zero vertical is the top of the top most
> > monitor  - regardless of whether it is the primary monitor or not.
> 
> If the screenRect is no longer based on the main monitor, what is the 
> screenloc?
> 
> In a multi-monitor setup, with metrics like that how can one be expected to 
> center a window?
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: Problems with Multiple Monitors

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Hi Martin,

I have the same setup . . . second monitor on top of my MBP. I solved the 
problem by unchecking “Displays have separate Spaces” in the Mission Control 
System Preferences.


Roger

> On May 4, 2021, at 3:17 PM, Martin Koob via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> I have found that when I arrange monitors on my MacBook Pro I can’t position 
> the second monitor above the main monitor(the one with the menu bar).  If I 
> do odd things happen.  Just so happens I that is the space that I have for a 
> second monitor  is on a stand above the screen of my MacBook Pro.  So I had 
> to position my second monitor to the left of my main monitor.  I am then able 
> to work on LiveCode in either monitor.  The only thing I had to do was 
> re-train my brain that moving my mouse left was actually moving it up to my 
> second monitor. Now it is second nature.
> 
> It is a really odd workaround and if the bug ever got fixed and I did in fact 
> go back to to having the monitor arrangement with the second monitor above 
> the main monitor I would probably develop carpal tunnel syndrome or maybe 
> tennis elbow or some other musculoskeletal disorder  from my mouse hand  
> skidding off the mouse pad and hitting the laptop every time I want to go to 
> the second monitor sitting above my laptop.
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
>> On May 4, 2021, at 5:46 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> On 5/4/2021 5:32 PM, Fred Moyer via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Anyone having problems with multiple monitors and LC? I’m running 9.6.1 - 
>>> Mac. I have a feeling LC is confused because I like to connect and 
>>> disconnect monitors from my MacBook Pro. (Even the MacOS sometimes gets 
>>> confused.) But now LC is doing crazy things — even when no external 
>>> monitors are connected. I’ll move the mouse to the top of a stack window, 
>>> and ask for the Mouseloc and it will return something like "100,-60”. If I 
>>> click a button in the middle of the stack, the click will register in an 
>>> object the 60 pixels above that. It’s not always 60 — the wrongness changed 
>>> as I move the stack around. Other times it works fine. I can’t find a 
>>> pattern to set it off.
>>> 
>>> Any suggestions?
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Fred
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> With multiple monitor, zero vertical is the top of the top most monitor - 
>> regardless of whether it is the primary monitor or not. The on 
>> desktopChanged message may also be helpful as it is sent when the 
>> displays/monitors change
>> 
>> 
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Re: Lock/Unlock Screen of another stack

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Hi Klaus,

> On Apr 4, 2021, at 4:50 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Roger,
> 
>> Am 05.04.2021 um 00:56 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I have a button on one stack that hides and shows controls of another stack. 
>> Is it possible to add Lock screen for effect and Unlock screen with effect 
>> in that button? Can’t seem to make it work….
> 
> a shot in the dark, but does setting the defaultstack first help?
> But maybe you already tried that.

I did try that but to no avail. However, I solved my problem by putting the 
guts of the script inside a handler in the stack I want to control. I then just 
call that handler from the stack that is controlling. Works great . . . 
probably a better way to go anyway.

Thanks for your help

Roger
> 
>> Thx,
>> 
>> Roger 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> kl...@major-k.de
> 
> 
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Lock/Unlock Screen of another stack

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Hi all,

I have a button on one stack that hides and shows controls of another stack. Is 
it possible to add Lock screen for effect and Unlock screen with effect in that 
button? Can’t seem to make it work….

Thx,

Roger 
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Re: autohilite FUBAR?

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Not so for me on Mac OS Big Sur and LC 9.6

Roger

> On Apr 2, 2021, at 2:52 PM, chipsm themartinz.com via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I tested this and it is true. As you move the Mouse across the button (in the 
> mouse-Down) it does flash.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Clarence Martin
> Email: chi...@themartinz.com
> Phone: 626 6965561
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode  On Behalf Of 
> Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2021 2:26 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode 
> Cc: Richard Gaskin 
> Subject: autohilite FUBAR?
> 
> I recently noticed that if you hold the mouse down on a button and move it, 
> the button doesn't stay highlighted, but instead the highlight  flashes.
> 
> Anyone else seeing this?  Anyone have a clue as to when it first went south?
> 
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  
>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

My apologies to everyone! The LC Lesson that Heather referred us to does indeed 
work in Big Sur as well. My mistake was thinking that the “Open Anyway” in the 
System Prefs never appears in Big Sur. But it certainly does . . . after 
clicking “OK” on the first dialog box. 

Thanks to Bob Earp for pointing that out to me.

Roger



> On Mar 31, 2021, at 8:49 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Many thanks Heather and Scott for these lessons. Unfortunately they don’t 
> apply to OS Big Sur. In fact, it was because I initially thought that apple 
> closed this door to opening standalones (SA) in Big Sur that I raised the 
> alarm here.

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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Here is the Forums entry:
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=19=35653 
> <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=19=35653>
Thanks,

Roger

> On Mar 31, 2021, at 8:49 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Many thanks Heather and Scott for these lessons. Unfortunately they don’t 
> apply to OS Big Sur. In fact, it was because I initially thought that apple 
> closed this door to opening standalones (SA) in Big Sur that I raised the 
> alarm here.
> 
> Turns out the process in Big Sur is even easier, involving just a few 
> “opening” clicks to actually open a SA which I discovered with the help of 
> Scott and others here. The easiest way to describe it is to Right or Control 
> click on the unzipped SA twice. The second time will add an “Open” button to 
> the dialog box that will indeed open it.
> 
> There may be some variations of this that might work as well, but the second 
> mouseClick on the SA must be a Right or Control click that brings up the 
> context menu.
> 
> I will try to get a short lesson with screen captures to the Forum soon.
> 
> 
> HTH and thanks to everyone who participated in this thread.
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
>> On Mar 31, 2021, at 3:59 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I thought at this point, I could make a useful contribution to this thread:
>> 
>> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1386097-i-get-a-warning-about-malicious-software-when-opening-a-livecode-standalone-on-mac
>>  
>> <https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1386097-i-get-a-warning-about-malicious-software-when-opening-a-livecode-standalone-on-mac>
>> 
>> My thanks to Scott for the handy test app, I hope you do not mind me using 
>> it to create this lesson...
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 30 Mar 2021, at 00:53, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your kind offer, Alex, but I think the process of opening an 
>>> unblessed standalone for OS 11 has been solved. See my previous post in 
>>> response to Scott. Turns out to be fairly simple . . . at least for this 
>>> iteration of OS. In short, just right-click 2 times. It may also be 
>>> important to do this from the Downloads folder. Not sure about that tho
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 29, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 29/03/2021 22:11, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> Thanks, Alex. Unfortunately it comes up with the “No Entry” sign on this 
>>>>> machine.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Roger
>>>> 
>>>> I'm not exactly sure what message this is, or when it happens. But this 
>>>> sounds like "Fortunately, ..." because I think it means you have an app 
>>>> that hits a brickwall of permission on your own machine - so we can look 
>>>> at it in more detail without bothering your wife's many multiple windows.
>>>> 
>>>> It's hard to describe these things in words - hence my suggestion of a 
>>>> Zoom call where you can screen-share and let others watch (and suggest) 
>>>> while you try it. If you want to try that with just me, please do (I'm 
>>>> unavailable for the next hour, but free from approx 00:30 - 01:30 UK 
>>>> time), or tomorrow almost any time, given some notice).
>>>> Or contact me off-list and we'll find a time.
>>>> Or suggest a time and someone else might be able to join in and help.
>>>> 
>>>> There are lots of motivated people wanting to help - or to find out what 
>>>> they're going to need to tell their own users when those users upgrade to 
>>>> a later MacOS. :-)
>>>> 
>>>> Alex.
>>>> 
>>>> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Many thanks Heather and Scott for these lessons. Unfortunately they don’t apply 
to OS Big Sur. In fact, it was because I initially thought that apple closed 
this door to opening standalones (SA) in Big Sur that I raised the alarm here.

Turns out the process in Big Sur is even easier, involving just a few “opening” 
clicks to actually open a SA which I discovered with the help of Scott and 
others here. The easiest way to describe it is to Right or Control click on the 
unzipped SA twice. The second time will add an “Open” button to the dialog box 
that will indeed open it.

There may be some variations of this that might work as well, but the second 
mouseClick on the SA must be a Right or Control click that brings up the 
context menu.

I will try to get a short lesson with screen captures to the Forum soon.


HTH and thanks to everyone who participated in this thread.

Roger


> On Mar 31, 2021, at 3:59 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I thought at this point, I could make a useful contribution to this thread:
> 
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1386097-i-get-a-warning-about-malicious-software-when-opening-a-livecode-standalone-on-mac
>  
> <https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1386097-i-get-a-warning-about-malicious-software-when-opening-a-livecode-standalone-on-mac>
> 
> My thanks to Scott for the handy test app, I hope you do not mind me using it 
> to create this lesson...
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 30 Mar 2021, at 00:53, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks for your kind offer, Alex, but I think the process of opening an 
>> unblessed standalone for OS 11 has been solved. See my previous post in 
>> response to Scott. Turns out to be fairly simple . . . at least for this 
>> iteration of OS. In short, just right-click 2 times. It may also be 
>> important to do this from the Downloads folder. Not sure about that tho
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Mar 29, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 29/03/2021 22:11, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Thanks, Alex. Unfortunately it comes up with the “No Entry” sign on this 
>>>> machine.
>>>> 
>>>> Roger
>>> 
>>> I'm not exactly sure what message this is, or when it happens. But this 
>>> sounds like "Fortunately, ..." because I think it means you have an app 
>>> that hits a brickwall of permission on your own machine - so we can look at 
>>> it in more detail without bothering your wife's many multiple windows.
>>> 
>>> It's hard to describe these things in words - hence my suggestion of a Zoom 
>>> call where you can screen-share and let others watch (and suggest) while 
>>> you try it. If you want to try that with just me, please do (I'm 
>>> unavailable for the next hour, but free from approx 00:30 - 01:30 UK time), 
>>> or tomorrow almost any time, given some notice).
>>> Or contact me off-list and we'll find a time.
>>> Or suggest a time and someone else might be able to join in and help.
>>> 
>>> There are lots of motivated people wanting to help - or to find out what 
>>> they're going to need to tell their own users when those users upgrade to a 
>>> later MacOS. :-)
>>> 
>>> Alex.
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Hi James,

I downloaded MKVtoolsNix and it opens on the second right-click.

As for my wife’s admin privileges, I will have to check later

Thanks very much

Roger


> On Mar 29, 2021, at 4:43 PM, james--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Roger,
> 
> Below is a link to the download page for MkvToolnix, an app for 
> packaging/modifying mkv files. It is not notarised and requires the steps we 
> have been suggesting to open (after copying it to your local machine from the 
> distribution disk image.)
> 
> https://www.fosshub.com/MKVToolNix.html
> 
> Also, the message you say you get on your wife’s machine is unfamiliar to me 
> and so I was wondering if her account is an admin privileged account. I 
> assume most of us on the list run admin accounts (if on a Mac) as we assume 
> we are savvy enough not to get caught out by malicious apps. If that is the 
> case, does trying to open your stack when logged in via an admin privileged 
> account bring up a different error dlog?
> 
> James
> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Well, the thought plickins. I just also tried to open another standalone from 
Bob Earp and it failed to open. I am back to my usual state of befuddlement!

Roger


> On Mar 29, 2021, at 6:02 PM, Dev via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> No Roger, the folder has nothing to do with it. The two right click process 
> will work wherever you unzip the new arrival. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 29, 2021, at 5:54 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks for your kind offer, Alex, but I think the process of opening an 
>> unblessed standalone for OS 11 has been solved. See my previous post in 
>> response to Scott. Turns out to be fairly simple . . . at least for this 
>> iteration of OS. In short, just right-click 2 times. It may also be 
>> important to do this from the Downloads folder. Not sure about that tho
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Mar 29, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 29/03/2021 22:11, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Thanks, Alex. Unfortunately it comes up with the “No Entry” sign on this 
>>>> machine.
>>>> 
>>>> Roger
>>> 
>>> I'm not exactly sure what message this is, or when it happens. But this 
>>> sounds like "Fortunately, ..." because I think it means you have an app 
>>> that hits a brickwall of permission on your own machine - so we can look at 
>>> it in more detail without bothering your wife's many multiple windows.
>>> 
>>> It's hard to describe these things in words - hence my suggestion of a Zoom 
>>> call where you can screen-share and let others watch (and suggest) while 
>>> you try it. If you want to try that with just me, please do (I'm 
>>> unavailable for the next hour, but free from approx 00:30 - 01:30 UK time), 
>>> or tomorrow almost any time, given some notice).
>>> Or contact me off-list and we'll find a time.
>>> Or suggest a time and someone else might be able to join in and help.
>>> 
>>> There are lots of motivated people wanting to help - or to find out what 
>>> they're going to need to tell their own users when those users upgrade to a 
>>> later MacOS. :-)
>>> 
>>> Alex.
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Thanks for your kind offer, Alex, but I think the process of opening an 
unblessed standalone for OS 11 has been solved. See my previous post in 
response to Scott. Turns out to be fairly simple . . . at least for this 
iteration of OS. In short, just right-click 2 times. It may also be important 
to do this from the Downloads folder. Not sure about that tho

Roger

> On Mar 29, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 29/03/2021 22:11, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> Thanks, Alex. Unfortunately it comes up with the “No Entry” sign on this 
>> machine.
>> 
>> Roger
> 
> I'm not exactly sure what message this is, or when it happens. But this 
> sounds like "Fortunately, ..." because I think it means you have an app that 
> hits a brickwall of permission on your own machine - so we can look at it in 
> more detail without bothering your wife's many multiple windows.
> 
> It's hard to describe these things in words - hence my suggestion of a Zoom 
> call where you can screen-share and let others watch (and suggest) while you 
> try it. If you want to try that with just me, please do (I'm unavailable for 
> the next hour, but free from approx 00:30 - 01:30 UK time), or tomorrow 
> almost any time, given some notice).
> Or contact me off-list and we'll find a time.
> Or suggest a time and someone else might be able to join in and help.
> 
> There are lots of motivated people wanting to help - or to find out what 
> they're going to need to tell their own users when those users upgrade to a 
> later MacOS. :-)
> 
> Alex.
> 
> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Great Scott! (How often do you hear that?)

This works on second attempt but not the first. I verified this by trashing the 
first unzipped app and unzipping a second as you suggest. Here are the details:

On first right-click - Open, I got “"Testeroni” can’t be opened because Apple 
cannot check it for malicious software”. “This software needs to be updated. 
Contact the developer for more information.” Safari downloaded this file today 
at 3:54 PM from”& (you.com ) with 2 buttons: "Show in Finder" 
and “OK"

On second attempt, I got the same message with 3 buttons: “Open", "Show in 
Finder" and “Cancel” And “Open” works

Alleluia and Go figure!!

Thanks, Scott!

Roger

> On Mar 29, 2021, at 3:33 PM, scott--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello Roger,
> 
> I made a standalone from an empty stack (and one button that does nothing.)  
> It is 64 bit Mac. It is zipped. It isn’t in a DMG or any sort of installer. 
> It is NOT code signed. I have been using this app to test how opening 
> non-signed Mac Apps work. After (finally) opening the app I can throw it away 
> and double click the zipped original to get another app that hasn’t been 
> approved  if I want to try the process again.
> 
> You can find this app here:
> 
> http://traditionaltaekwondo.org/test/Testeroni.app.zip
> 
> 
> --
> Scott Morrow
> 
> Elementary Software
> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
> web   https://elementarysoftware.com/
> email sc...@elementarysoftware.com
> booth1-360-734-4701
> mobile   360-920-0715
> --
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Thanks, Alex. Unfortunately it comes up with the “No Entry” sign on this 
machine.

Roger

> On Mar 29, 2021, at 1:36 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 29/03/2021 21:23, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> I have to admit I haven’t had a lot of time to experiment yet on my wife’s 
>> computer as I've been busy here trying to communicate my problem. Also, my 
>> wife’s computer is busy helping her work from home, not to mention, her 
>> style is to have numerous windows open all the time. Drives me nuts!
>> 
>> I wish I could think of an unapproved Mac app I could download to my own 
>> machine to play with.
> 
> https://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/downloads/StackRunner.htm 
> <https://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/downloads/StackRunner.htm> and 
> download something suitable.
> 
> This  is the old (and I think no longer functioning) stackRunner - but 
> although it doesn't appear to work properly (it is *very* old) it did come up 
> and ask me to approve it.

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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

I have to admit I haven’t had a lot of time to experiment yet on my wife’s 
computer as I've been busy here trying to communicate my problem. Also, my 
wife’s computer is busy helping her work from home, not to mention, her style 
is to have numerous windows open all the time. Drives me nuts!

I wish I could think of an unapproved Mac app I could download to my own 
machine to play with.

:-)

Roger



> On Mar 29, 2021, at 1:00 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Roger,
> 
> this is frustrating, isn't it !!
> 
> If I were you, I'd send an email to the list saying (something along the 
> lines of )
> 
>> I want to get to the bottom of this. I'm going to host a Zoom call on my 
>> wife's Mac at  where I will share my screen so 
>> you can all see what I'm doing, and I'll then accept suggestions of what to 
>> do/try.  Here's the key/invite ...
>> All welcome !!
>> 
> I'll do my best to attend - but since I don't own a Mac that can run anything 
> later than 10.13 I suspect I'll be a spectator, not a contributor.
> 
> Alex.

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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

I’m sure you’re right about this. And, If this be the case, I would ask for the 
work-around approach . . . a LiveCodeLight App downloadable from RunRev (or 
other approved source) that runs stacks but hides or strips the IDE.


Roger

> On Mar 29, 2021, at 12:54 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think your assumption that you will be able - even via some horribly 
> convoluted series of steps - to run unsigned and unnotarized apps on FUTURE 
> versions of macOS is probably in error. From Apple's actions and statements, 
> they very much are moving to a similar sandboxed, highly vetted, approved by 
> Apple model for macOS as exists for iOS apps.

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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Craig.

You and I are very much in the same boat as far as how we use LiveCode.

The problem is not constructing the standalones. LiveCode is superb in this 
regard. The problem is distributing Apple unapproved standalones. It seems I 
can no longer do that anymore as I used to. The problem is that opening an 
unapproved standalone on an other computer other than one’s own is difficult if 
not impossible for OS 11.2. Other’s in this thread have offered that it still 
can be done albeit with a more convoluted process, and I am still trying to 
figure this out. e.g if I send a standalone to my wife (called StackOmatic) to 
share, we inevitably end up with the  "You do not have permission to open the 
application “StackOmatic”. “Contact your computer or network administrator for 
assistance” with a simple “OK” button. I can’t seem to replicate the process 
that others have suggested to get to the “Open Anyway” button.

Roger

> On Mar 29, 2021, at 11:20 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> For about eight users in my business I distribute standalones for desktop 
> only, both Mac and Windows versions. These are developed on a Mac. Simple to 
> update and make, simple to give away, simple to use.
> 
> That is the aspect of this thread that I do not understand, perhaps 
> misreading that it is somehow problematic to do what I do without issue. I am 
> certain I simply have this wrong.
> 
> I do all this in the Community version. I do not sell apps at all, though I 
> own an Indy license just as a way to help LC a little. So I wonder if I am a 
> scofflaw. If everyone was on a Mac, I might have simply distributed updated 
> stacks, and have LC resident on all the other machines. But of course, the 
> fact that most use Windows makes that impossible, and I will not use a 
> Windows machine unless I have to. Anyway, leaving the IDE open is risky.

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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Beautifully said, Rick! Especially your point about it being a PITA.

Thanks!


> On Mar 29, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> Perhaps improving standalone building should be put at
> the top of the priority of things to improve for LiveCode.
> 
> I think people are very frustrated that they are having
> great difficulties in building a standalone. A process that
> used to be relatively simple is now way too complex.
> 
> Many LC users want to be able to create their application,
> and deploy it quickly to their own computers, or to give
> away to their family members.  They are not interested
> in inserting Apple or other corporations into their personal
> programming loop, and a lot of us feel the same way.
> 
> No one wants to deal with having to create bundle ids
> or other corporate nonsense.  (Option for a unique random
> bundle id generator here?)
> 
> I believe users want LC to step up it’s game in dealing
> with these issues so the deployment experience is an
> enjoyable one, and not a PITA.
> 
> Successfully addressing this problem helps everyone!
> 
> Just my 2 cents for the day.  ;-)
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
>> 
>> In terms of the general thrust behind this thread - I completely agree that 
>> standalone building has become tortuous over the last few years as all 
>> platforms add more and more hoops you have to jump through. However, this is 
>> probably best done by improving the standalone building process (i.e. making 
>> it as easy as possible) rather than anything else.
>> 
>> Warmest Regards,
>> 
>> Mark.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
> 
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Re: We don't need a Player (was Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones)

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

YES . . . What he said!

> On Mar 29, 2021, at 8:55 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> TL/DR:
> 
> We don't need a generic player.
> 
> What we need is an updated Standalone Builder, to provide more complete 
> tooling and better guidance for building a modern standalone.
> 
> 
> 
> - more complete version 
> 
> 
> Background
> --
> 
> This thread, and many others like it, didn't start with a desire for a 
> player.  That was merely a response to the challenges of building standalones.
> 
> Building standalones is the point of LiveCode, the culmination of everything 
> in LC's user experience.
> 
> And it's become a pain point for most, early-prohibitive for some.
> 
> OS changes are of course not LC's fault.  But they are LC's opportunity, if 
> the company wants to maintain its place as the easiest solution for making 
> apps.
> 
> 
> 
> The Last Great Deployment Change
> 
> 
> Back in the early days, the IDE's Standalone Builder didn't provide any 
> support for document associations, creator codes, or other essentials we now 
> take for granted.  It was expected we'd open some dev tool from Apple 
> (ResEdit) to set those up.
> 
> LC Ltd recognized those steps were cumbersome, and often error-prone where 
> they were being done at all.
> 
> So they took the time to completely redesign the Standalone Builder to 
> include support for nearly every detail apps need for solid deployment.
> 
> 
> 
> The Next Great Deployment Change
> 
> 
> Many if not most deployment tooling required by OSes are command-line apps, 
> lending themselves well to being called from another program, such as LC's 
> Standalone Builder.
> 
> Automate everything possible.
> 
> And where a step can't be automated, guidance and be provided, such as a 
> direct link right in the SB's UI to the necessary steps for completing the 
> process, laid out with sufficient clarity and detail to allow the user to 
> complete the build with confidence.
> 
> If a standalone building step is essential, it needs to be handled in the 
> Standalone Builder.
> 
> Use direct automation where possible, or a direct link in the UI to 
> step-by-step instructions needed to complete the task.
> 
> 
> 
> The Business Case
> -
> As we've seen here and many other threads like it from time to time, as long 
> as building a standalone in LC is characterized by confusion and dread, 
> people will seek alternatives.
> 
> Any alternative either compromises LC's revenue model (based as it is around 
> standalone licensing), or eliminates it (if LC is just as hard to use as 
> anything else, why not use anything else?).
> 
> No option provides as much return on investment as focusing on updating the 
> Standalone Builder to be as simple and graceful as it can possibly be.
> 
> LC has a strong advantage with its language, made a nearly unbeatable with 
> its integrated GUI object model.
> 
> Bring deployment up to par with the rest of the experience, and LC has a 
> chance for a good life ahead, slowing attrition rates while accelerating 
> growth.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Craig,

I apologize for the confusion. I tended to shift focus throughout this thread.

I too have, in the past, made and distributed standalones with great ease. But 
recently Apple and perhaps others have made it very difficult to do this as 
they are now requiring(?) that one be an Apple developer with an increasingly 
complex process for certifying apps for distribution.

In this thread, others have claimed that one can still do this (build 
distributable standalones w/o being an Apple developer etc.) with a slightly 
more convoluted process which I have not yet been able to replicate on Mac OS 
11.2. I’m still working on it. In any case it is not as easy as it use to be 
and IMO, this door may be closing.

All I want is a simple reliable, repeatable easy to use method/process for 
sharing stacks or Standalones with friends, family and colleagues without 
having to become an Apple developer. 

So Craig, I would appreciate knowing more about your process.


HTH,

Roger

> I make and update standalones regularly on my Mac, and distribute them to 
> many Windows and Mac desktop users in my company. All for “personal’ use.
> 

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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

John et al,

To recap: 

My ultimate goal is to get support for RunRev to provide a LiveCodeLight 
download that opens stacks but hides or strips the IDE. I can’t believe this 
would be difficult in any way.

In the meantime, I am trying to recreate the old Standalone app method (See 
Jacquelines’ post in this thread) that opens stacks. 2 or more OSs ago this was 
extremely easy to do, but because of the increasing complexity of Apple 
requirements (and Windows?) it is now quite difficult and I have yet to succeed 
at it. Even if it is still possible, I shudder to think what they will do next 
to further complicate our efforts to simple collaborate and share with family 
and friends.

Thanks to all who are taking an interest.

Roger



> On Mar 28, 2021, at 9:14 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I was thinking one of the reasons people were saying not to provide a
> scaled down version of the development system to do it was because
> they were afraid it would interfere with the license. But since you can
> do it according to some of you is proof you are allowed to automate
> the process and that should not interfere with the user license.
> 
> JB
> 
>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 9:04 PM, Dev via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> If it works, the upside is that anyone can do it themselves and coach their 
>> family into doing the two step process once on the first time install.
>> 
>> If it doesn’t work, we need to get a real developer to make a real app that 
>> jumps through Apple’s hoops. And then the developer has to keep it updated 
>> every time Apple makes a change. 
>> 
>> I agree this whole thing is a bother, but as other posts have pointed out, 
>> “This is not the good old days and security is not going away” so this whole 
>> discussion is trying to find the narrowest point to cross. If the amateurs 
>> can do it themselves with a two step magic incantation, then this puts the 
>> ball back in their court and allows them into the game with out going 
>> through the Apple doorway.
>> 
>> Kelly
>> 
>>> On 28 Mar, 2021, at 9:54 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I may have got lost on this subject but if his goal was to make it
>>> easy for people to open his app by doing something like using a
>>> scaled down version of the development system then this one
>>> step of doing it twice is a valid reason for using what he wanted
>>> because people do not want to be bothered with things like that.
>>> 
>>> JB
>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 8:41 PM, scott--- via use-livecode 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I may have described it incorrectly. After re-testing here on OS 11.2.3  I 
>>>> found that it required two tries. Trying to open it the first time meets 
>>>> with failure. But Right clicking and choosing “Open” the second time gives 
>>>> a second dialog that will allow it to open.
>>>> 
>>>> —
>>>> Scott
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 2:58 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I’m trying to share with my wife on 
>>>>> her iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look 
>>>>> Attachment - Save Attachment…. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy 
>>>>> - Speech
>>>>> 
>>>>> Then, clicking on the “Open Attachment” menu item results in the same 
>>>>> response I reported earlier: a simple screen with this message: You do 
>>>>> not have permission to open the application “StackOmatic”. “Contact your 
>>>>> computer or network administrator for assistance” with a simple “OK” 
>>>>> button. Dead end as before!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Further, at Kelly's suggestion to try and adjust settings in the Security 
>>>>> and Privacy System Preferences to downgrade standards to allow a one time 
>>>>> opening, I found nothing of the sort. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> So at this point, I think Kelly’s idea of someone with Apple credentials 
>>>>> building a certified standalone that runs stacks is the only short term 
>>>>> solution. If it helps, I and probably others, would be willing to pay a 
>>>>> reasonable fee for such gem. Otherwise, I and anyone else wanting to 
>>>>> share stacks, will have to jump through the increasingly ridiculous hoops 
>>>>> that Apple 

Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

James, Kelly and Brian,

Thanks for sticking with me on this. 

Perhaps, to smooth out this process, I should look for an uncertified app to 
download to my own machine, instead of working off of her machine. Have you any 
suggestions for that?

Answers to some of your question:
I emailed a standalone app  to my wife called StackOmatic that opens stacks 
(works on my machine)
I tried double and right clicking from the email then... 
I saved it to her Desktop and also to her Downloads where I tired both double 
clicking and right clicking again 
In every case, I end up with the dreaded "You do not have permission to open 
the application “StackOmatic”. “Contact your computer or network administrator 
for assistance” with a simple “OK” button.

HTH,

Roger 

> On Mar 28, 2021, at 6:20 PM, james--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Roger,
> 
> You wrote:
> 
>> Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I?m trying to share with my wife on her 
>> iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look Attachment 
>> - Save Attachment?. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy - Speech
> 
> This list of menu options looks like those that appear if you are 
> right-clicking on an attachment in Mail.
> 
> The right-click menu being referred to here is only available when you are in 
> the Finder.
> So the app you sent to your wife’s machine (apparently by Mail) needs to be 
> downloaded first. Then, in the Finder, locate the downloaded file and 
> right-click on it.
> 
> The menu that appears will have as the first two options “Open” and “Show 
> Package Contents”. 
> If the second option offered is not “Show Package Options” but “Open With” 
> then you have not transferred an app but a document (perhaps the LC stack?)
> 
> Try this with other apps and documents on your wife’s mac to confirm the two 
> types of option menus that come up.
> 
> Choosing “Open” for an application Finder context menu will, for unnotorized 
> apps, will then bring up the dlog asking if you really do want to open this 
> app. This only needs to be done the first time the app is opened.
> 
> James
> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

I feel bad that you guys are sticking with me to no avail. Saving it first to 
Downloads or Desktop does not work.

Sorry to be such a bother,

Roger

> On Mar 28, 2021, at 4:26 PM, Dev via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Agreed. Save to the desktop and then try the right click Open command. 
> 
> Kelly
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 5:04 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I think the “attachment” is part of the issue.  Save to downloads first?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 6:00 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I’m trying to share with my wife on 
>>> her iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look 
>>> Attachment - Save Attachment…. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy - 
>>> Speech
>>> 
>>> Then, clicking on the “Open Attachment” menu item results in the same 
>>> response I reported earlier: a simple screen with this message: You do not 
>>> have permission to open the application “StackOmatic”. “Contact your 
>>> computer or network administrator for assistance” with a simple “OK” 
>>> button. Dead end as before!
>>> 
>>> Further, at Kelly's suggestion to try and adjust settings in the Security 
>>> and Privacy System Preferences to downgrade standards to allow a one time 
>>> opening, I found nothing of the sort.
>>> 
>>> So at this point, I think Kelly’s idea of someone with Apple credentials 
>>> building a certified standalone that runs stacks is the only short term 
>>> solution. If it helps, I and probably others, would be willing to pay a 
>>> reasonable fee for such gem. Otherwise, I and anyone else wanting to share 
>>> stacks, will have to jump through the increasingly ridiculous hoops that 
>>> Apple (and Windows?) place before us. OTH….
>>> 
>>> Ultimately, I really think that a LiveCodeLight app that runs stacks 
>>> without the IDE would be the best way to go to share stacks with friends, 
>>> family and colleagues.
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 12:24 AM, scott--- via use-livecode 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Kelly is correct. While holding down the control key, click and hold (or 
>>>> right click) to get an additional menu allowing you to choose to open the 
>>>> app.
>>>> —
>>>> Scott 
>>> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I’m trying to share with my wife on her 
iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look Attachment - 
Save Attachment…. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy - Speech

Then, clicking on the “Open Attachment” menu item results in the same response 
I reported earlier: a simple screen with this message: You do not have 
permission to open the application “StackOmatic”. “Contact your computer or 
network administrator for assistance” with a simple “OK” button. Dead end as 
before!

Further, at Kelly's suggestion to try and adjust settings in the Security and 
Privacy System Preferences to downgrade standards to allow a one time opening, 
I found nothing of the sort. 

So at this point, I think Kelly’s idea of someone with Apple credentials 
building a certified standalone that runs stacks is the only short term 
solution. If it helps, I and probably others, would be willing to pay a 
reasonable fee for such gem. Otherwise, I and anyone else wanting to share 
stacks, will have to jump through the increasingly ridiculous hoops that Apple 
(and Windows?) place before us. OTH….

Ultimately, I really think that a LiveCodeLight app that runs stacks without 
the IDE would be the best way to go to share stacks with friends, family and 
colleagues.

Roger



> On Mar 28, 2021, at 12:24 AM, scott--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Kelly is correct. While holding down the control key, click and hold (or 
> right click) to get an additional menu allowing you to choose to open the app.
> —
> Scott 

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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Here is a report on the back door approach to opening a standalone on MAC OS 
11.2:

I built a stack precisely as Jacqueline specified and made a Mac standalone of 
it. I checked to make sure it worked on my own computer. I then sent the 
standalone to my wife’s computer – another Mac running the same OS 11.2. 
Double-clicking the standalone on her computer, resulted is a simple screen 
with this message: You do not have permission to open the application 
“StackOmatic”. “Contact your computer or network administrator for assistance” 
with a single “OK” button.

 I then checked System Preferences - Security & Privacy - General Tab. There 
was no “Open Anyway” button.

Dead in the water! 

I humbly submit that we need a LiveCodeLight app from a certified developer 
that runs stacks without the IDE

Roge



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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Thanks, Scott. I will be testing all this in the next day or so and will report.

Roger


> On Mar 27, 2021, at 4:56 PM, scott--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Roger,
> Yes, I believe it is on an individual app basis that occurs at the time the 
> app is being first opened.
> —
> Scott
> 
>> On Mar 27, 2021, at 4:15 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Jacque,
>> 
>> You always come thru with such great clarity and thoroughness. I remember 
>> going thru this process a few years ago, but I thought this back door 
>> approach was closed by Apple within the last couple of OS releases. Indeed, 
>> looking at my Security tab of System Preferences in OS 11.2, I do 
>> not see the “Open Anyway” button as illustrated in your link for Mac OS. Is 
>> it possible this button only appears if the OS senses that user is trying to 
>> open an unauthorized app?
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 27, 2021, at 3:22 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Roger Guay wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> In the good ol days, I could build a standalone for the Mac,
>>>> Windows and Linux and distribute it willy-nilly.
>>> 
>>> On desktop you still can, sort of, if you don't mind instructing your users 
>>> how to get around the security blocks that both Windows and Mac OS have 
>>> adopted. If your users are just family and friends, this is viable. Someone 
>>> more familiar with Linux can say whether this method works there.
>>> 
>>> Here is a skeletal outline off the top of my head (so I may have missed 
>>> something,) but it should give you the idea. A "runner" app is easy to 
>>> make, basically a stack with one card and a single button. The button 
>>> script:
>>> 
>>> on mouseup
>>> answer file "Choose a stack to open:"
>>> if it is empty then exit to top
>>> go stack it
>>> end mouseup
>>> 
>>> Add an openStack handler on the card so that resources can be shared:
>>> 
>>> on openStack
>>> start using this stack
>>> end openStack
>>> 
>>> 
>>> That's the whole stack. Now set up standalone settings for the desired 
>>> build platform. Include all extensions, libraries, widgets, etc. that your 
>>> stacks need, or you think they might need in the future. Your app will be 
>>> limited to the inclusions your license permits.
>>> 
>>> Build the app. Send it to friends along with your stacks.
>>> 
>>> Now the part where you do some explaining. Since the app isn't notarized by 
>>> Apple or authorized by Microsoft, explain to them how to bypass the 
>>> blockage and get the app to open. They only need to do this once on first 
>>> launch. There are lots of hits if you search for "how to open unnotarized 
>>> app on big sur" or "open unauthorized app on windows."
>>> 
>>> Here's one for Mac OS: 
>>> <https://eclecticlight.co/2020/11/19/getting-unnotarized-apps-out-of-quarantine/>
>>> 
>>> And one for Windows: 
>>> <https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/unverified-app-change-your-app-recommendation/1b4dd654-c5a0-4833-866c-a354d8c24b69>
>>> 
>>> This won't work for mobile apps, though with some adjustments you can build 
>>> a runner app for Android if you're willing to distribute from the internet.
>>> 
>>> Also note: The stacks you distribute cannot violate the LC license 
>>> agreement. They can't reproduce IDE features or allow users to do things 
>>> that only a licensed user can do. Please don't violate the license 
>>> agreement; we all want LC to prosper.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Thank you, Richard for these responses . . . some of which I will have to 
consider for a while to better understand. But I still think this idea has 
merit, is very easy to do and maintain and makes Livecode even more attractive 
to prospective customers, especially those who require easy collaboration with 
colleagues

And BTW, I don’t care who builds it, but it seems a natural for RunRev.

Roger

> On Mar 27, 2021, at 11:29 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Roger Guay wrote:
> 
> > On Mar 26, 2021, at 5:35 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> >
> >> What are you looking for?  When were these "good ol days"
> >> in which one could run stack files without an engine, and
> >> how did that work?
> >
> > In the good ol days, I could build a standalone for the Mac,
> > Windows and Linux and distribute it willy-nilly. Now I have to
> > jump thru intolerable hoops (at least for the Mac) to give
> > someone my standalone. if someone (hint. . .hint) could build
> > a Livecode reader app for dirt cheap or even free w advertising
> > that would run LC standalones, everything would be right in the
> > world again!
> >
> > I think my martini is showing...
> 
> After I read that I poured myself two fingers of whiskey and sat back 
> enjoying the memories you conjured. Good thoughts. Thanks.
> 
> In those days we made software for single users to run on a single computer 
> running one brand of OS.
> 
> The web had barely been invented, the Internet not yet privatized for general 
> use, and "cloud" was still called "mainframe".
> 
> It was a much simpler time. I miss those days myself.
> 
> 
> The hoops we now jump through to deliver apps are OS vendors responding to an 
> evolving need to establish trust in hostile connected environments.
> 
> As software opportunities have expanded, they've for everyone, good and bad 
> actors alike.
> 
> My response to Alex was apparently too long to be read, but I touched on this 
> in third block, re "security", re implications for a player as well:
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2021-March/263948.html
> 
> 
> 
> > This conversation has given me some focus and clarification of the
> > basic idea. Here is what I would love to see: A LiveCodeLight
> > downloadable from the mother ship.
> 
> Why specifically from the mother ship?
> 
> Or to put it in business terms, which features/bug fixes would you be willing 
> to see dropped so the company could commit to making and maintaining yet 
> another project?
> 
> In addition to the opportunity cost to the company, there's also the segment 
> who would use it as an alternative to maintaining a current license, 
> resulting in at least some degree of revenue cannibalization.
> 
> And while the upside is non-zero, it's limited to a slender subset of 
> promotional value opportunities which could more easily be attained with 
> nearly any marketing strategy at lower cost, and in ways that more directly 
> feed their funnel.
> 
> Moreover, a player produces no direct revenue, but maintenance and support 
> obligations create immediate (if modest) direct payroll impact.
> 
> Free software isn't free to make and maintain.
> 
> 
> > LiveCodeLight would be a stripped down version of the community
> > edition that would not open the IDE, but would open and run stacks.
> >
> > Thanks, Brian for the idea.
> >
> > Is that a cool idea or what?
> 
> Also addressed in my earlier post (some day I'll learn to write less here).
> 
> The close of that post suggested this might make a good community project, 
> and described how simple it could be if anyone here really wanted something 
> that rudimentary.
> 
> But (for the reasons also described in that post) it would have to be with 
> Community, which raises two questions not yet answered in any subsequent 
> reply:
> 
> How many who would use a generic player would be willing to relicense their 
> works under GPL, as would be required if distributed via the GPL-governed 
> Community Edition.
> 
> And with Community's role in LC's business as a sort of freemium offer, how 
> many projects might one want to distribute with a player which use absolutely 
> none of any features found only in the proprietary editions, Indy and 
> Business?
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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