Re: Close & remove from memory - Engine hang

2021-05-07 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Matthias:

> I just wrote about my observations and asked for a recipe.
...
> If you felt that as "doubt" then i am really sorry.

No worries! I also apologize if I've misread your message.

It's probably a "Good Thing" anyway that we've had some exchange,
because it brings more attention to the topic. Thank you for that.

I look forward to posting the recipes and reports after deadlines;
those must happen first, and there's no way I can change that.

Besides the two I can recipe, I hope other people can recipe theirs.
That's a worry because my two cover only a third of Hangs I've seen!

(Extrapolating, there may be another 1 or 2 Hangs still unknown to me.
But fixing 4 to 6 would be a great start. Hopefully that's all of them.)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Close & remove from memory - Engine hang

2021-05-07 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Scott:

> Paypal account or not, if Matthias is a bot we need to
> figure out how to spawn more instances.

That's no problem; we can hack into the server and "borrow" the Matthias 
source code. But I don't know what kind of hardware he requires. ;)


(Again, for any who did not understand the exchange between myself and 
Matthias, I "doubted" his existence to call out his casting blind doubt 
on my accurate observations of the very real, and several, LC Hangs.)


Opposing or ridiculing efforts to debug LC is pretty pointless; it's 
very much a "Community Service" when I help track down as many LC bugs 
as possible, and this helps others. You can't fight the facts anyway. 
Not sure why anyone would jump at the chance of being proven wrong! But 
no hard feelings to any; just getting bugs fixed, for the benefit of 
all. And for any that don't get fixed, I'll have a few workarounds.


BTW, I should have tweaked the ending of my previous message:

> I estimate there are perhaps 6 Hang bugs total, but I can recipe 2.
> File those bug reports, people! Take care, all

I left out a core message of my current theme. Fixed it for me:

File those bug reports, people! IMPROVE THE CODE, LC! Take care, all

Because those are two problems: sometimes LC users don't report bugs.
And sometimes LC is "Too Darn Buggy" to humanly report everything.
(I mentioned the "Bug Monkhood" concept of quitting one's livelihood.)
We should address both sides of the equation: more reports, better code.

I was hoping this would be a one-off quick post without much fuss, but 
on second thought, maybe it's just as well. LC's bug-density is a big 
enough problem that we've had several people simply give up and go away. 
Meanwhile, I've ran into more bugs and poor feature support in some 
areas than I could hope to report in a lifetime!


Some areas of LC just aren't great. Paste and Player come to mind. I 
reported numerous Player bugs, and probably will report many Paste bugs, 
but neither area will be great even with bugs fixed. And the real bugs 
are so numerous that it's hard to find time for filing feature requests. 
Too many bugs and flaky feature support. I'd like to see that change.


I could shrug my shoulders, but that's not my style. I'm going to do 
what I can to help reduce LC's bugs (and some other things) to help both 
LC itself and its users. While also helping myself and some clients.


Since I'm not the clique type, I always get some flak, but that's OK. I 
can handle that, no sweat. I hope everyone has a great weekend!


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: Close & remove from memory - Engine hang

2021-05-07 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Matthias:

> Believe me i am real. I purchased every library
> you've created in the past, so i must be real.

Not necessarily! You could be a "bot" with a Paypal account.
But I am not prejudiced; human or not, you're a valued customer. :)

And so hopefully you see, and understand, what I'm doing in this thread.
LC indeed has several hangs, and is "Pretty Darn Buggy" in general.

When you cast doubt on my observations, you're not helping the cause.
I'm not doing it for myself; LC being "Pretty Darn Buggy" hurts people.
I can always workaround, but other people may not be able to do that.

And there's a Catch-22, because LC being Pretty Darn Buggy slows me up.
Making workarounds on features that should be solid/stable wastes time.
Until I finish a couple of deadlines, I can't even report the recipes!
I would have finished this work long ago if LC had fewer bugs.

Which, I know, further compounds the problem. But it's a bigger problem.
I estimate that I've had 4 types of Hangs, of which I can recipe 2.
The other 2 are less common or harder to pin down; no imminent recipes.
And (as I've emphasized) I've seen and heard about even more Hangs.

And if you decide to "oppose the effort" that's an additional delay.
I'm having to repeat things for you that I already stated.
That's fine; if it helps the effort, it's worth it. But it takes time.

And guess what - addon work comes after the deadlines and bug reports.
So, if you'd like to cooperate more, rather than casting blind doubt...
...maybe we'd both benefit, huh? When LC is less buggy, it helps us all.

Anyway, thanks for being a customer. I admit...you seem pretty real.
If you're a bot, the AI is getting pretty good already. :)

The LC "Cliques" are also real, but I do have a Communication degree,
in addition to my Computer Science education, and that helps.
I clearly see memes, messages, insinuations as if they were neon signs.
Sometimes I use my Communication skills here, again to help all of us.

Take care! I do truly appreciate your thoughts on this.
Hopefully we can talk more after my deadlines, and yes ...

> Please post the bug report id, when you've posted.

Absolutely I'll paste the bug report links here when I file them.
But as I've said many times now, I expect to file TWO Hang reports.

There are other Hang bugs which I am not able to report. (See above.)
Including this one of Tiemo's, if it's NOT the one Panos fixed.
That's why (yep, there's always a reason) I'm talking about it here.

Because there are more Hangs, and more people need to file reports.
Otherwise LC will remain "Pretty Darn Buggy" and that's not good.
I estimate there are perhaps 6 Hang bugs total, but I can recipe 2.
File those bug reports, people! Take care, all

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Close & remove from memory - Engine hang

2021-05-07 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Matthias:

> I did not had any hang/freeze.

Hi Matthias,

Good for you! Perhaps you work with fewer projects, or fewer LC areas.
Anyway, you and I are obviously not doing the exact same work, right?

So count your blessings. Every hang does have a trigger and a cause.
No trigger = no hang. That's something to keep in mind.

> On what OS are you and did you do anything special
> in LC when the hangs appeared?

Hmm, I think I already stated: "both Mac and PC in various situations."
(Funny how it takes several repetitions to convey a non-clique message.)

Nor do I want to claim all the credit. I've had plenty of hangs myself.
But I've seen others when screen-sharing with other people.

Thus: "it's not merely the couple of Hangs that I can report myself!"
I believe I can recipe two of the hangs, but there are others.

> So if you have a recipe i would be really happy to test here.

Funny, I thought I already said that too:

"Other bug reports I will file AFTER I finish deadlines.
(If you can wave a wand to extend my deadlines, I'll do reports first!)"

And yet again, answered before it was asked:

"I need to file a couple of bug reports after I finish my deadlines.
Still need to create reliable recipes; had to create workarounds first."

So when I do file a report, please do test the recipe as you've offered.
I would appreciate that! And thank you for your response here.

> of course I don't want to rule out the possibility that they exist.

That's good to hear! I have a similar approach to unconfirmed data:
I've never seen Matthias, but I don't rule out his existence either. :)

I am skeptical, but I admit there's a chance of you being real.
On the other hand, no such doubts about the LC Hangs; I've seen many.

(BTW thanks for your offlist inquiry recently on one of the addons.
And thanks for writing again to let me know you had a workaround.
I will get back to you on that, also, after these deadlines.)

Back to work! Take care

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Close & remove from memory - Engine hang

2021-05-07 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Panos:

> What Tiemo described sounded like this issue
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22896
> - so if this is the
> case, this bug is very specific to Big Sur,
> and it is fixed in LC 9.6.2 RC-1+.

Hi Panos,

I'm not disputing that you recently addressed a specific Hang.
But you are staring at a tiny sapling, and not seeing the mighty forest:

Hangs have become a defining feature of the LC experience.
They are quite common on both Mac and PC in various situations.

Not limited to Big Sur.
Not limited to Mac.
Not limited to Windows.
Not limited to sheets.
Not limited to dialogs.
See where I'm going with this?

LC Experience = Hangs.

Using LC = Risking a Hang.
Launching LC = Starting countdown to a Hang.

I've seen similar hangs when closing stacks.
And it sure as heck wasn't Big Sur or even Mac.
It was on Windows.
And it ain't fixed as of LC 9.6.2 RC-1+.

Completely different bug? Maybe.
Same LC Experience? Yes!

LC has a "Hang Problem."
If you don't realize that, you're part of the problem.

Likewise I've seen many hangs for other reasons:
Other triggers. Other recipes to write.
Other bug reports I will file AFTER I finish deadlines.

(If you can wave a wand to extend my deadlines, I'll do reports first!)

So the problem is not one small specific Big Sur sheet dialog bug.
That's the tiny sapling. It's cute, but there's a big forest behind it.
And that forest is: LC frequently hangs. It's Hang-prone. "Hang-ey."

If LC IDE had a mascot character right now, he'd be frozen in a pose.
Maybe the Ice Man - Frozen Stiff, but still Warming Up your Laptop. :)
That's not a great image for the LC Experience. Please improve it.

I need to file a couple of bug reports after I finish my deadlines.
Still need to create reliable recipes; had to create workarounds first.

But you need to make LC less buggy (especially, fewer Hangs) in general.
Because it's not merely the couple of Hangs that I can report myself!

You have many Hangs in LC. Why?

They are quite common on both Mac and PC in various situations.
Hangs have become a defining feature of the "LC experience."
Let's change that. Thanks!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Close & remove from memory - Engine hang

2021-05-07 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Panos:

> If I remember correctly, this happened on Big Sur only,
> and it is fixed in LC 9.6.2 rc-X

No way.

Hangs have become a defining feature of the LC experience.
They are quite common on both Mac and PC in various situations.

I'm not disputing that you fixed "something" recently.
Perhaps a specific Hang, or specific Hang trigger.
But there are plenty more waiting to be fixed.

Big Sur only? Not at all. I've had many LC hangs, and please note:
I don't even have Big Sur yet. Windows and Mac both have hangs.
Nor have they completely disappeared as of LC 9.6.2 rc-X. (AFAIK.)

Yeah, I know: it's always a verify specific bug. "File another report."
And we will! But face facts - this is not affecting one single LC area.

That means the Hang (or Hangs) may not be only local or specific.
It's more like a general or systemic flaw throughout LC.
Either a deeper flaw, or else a bad coding habit being repeated.

So that means LC needs to look at the bigger picture.
Thus, you can make the entire "LC experience" less about Hangs. Thanks!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Close & remove from memory - Engine hang

2021-05-07 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode


Tiemo:

> Only a hard close via task manager
> is the only option to quit the engine

That has become a defining feature of the LC experience.
Hangs are quite common on both Mac and PC in various situations.

> Is it something about my stack what makes
> the engine hang, or do you also
> experience this behaviour?

Something you do might "trigger" the Hang, but not cause it.
Because by definition, a Crash or Hang is LC's fault.
(If our own code were at fault, we could interrupt the loop.)

Rick:

> I have also seen this weirdness,
> I don’t think it’s just your computer.

Correct. Using LC = Risking a Hang.
Launching LC = Starting countdown to a Hang.

Tiemo:

> The text really says "stack file stack"
> and not "stack  file"

That could be important - be sure to mention it.*

BTW, could you go ahead and report this bug?
I'll definitely sign on as CC to support it.
But I don't have time to file it myself right now.

*Clarification: that's an important detail for triggering it.
Yet I suspect that the ultimate trouble could be deeper in LC.

So the LC Team needs to avoid assuming this is one small affected area.
There seem to be lots of Hangs - or perhaps one Hang with many triggers.
LC has some kind of defect that makes it very Hang-prone these days.

So it would really help to bug report this.

BTW, which is better, Hang or Crash? In the end I prefer Crash. :)
(Which is to say: LC should be stable, and Crash/Hang should be rare.)

Thanks for noting this particular Hang trigger.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
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LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: Complete Crash or Engine Hang: which is better?

2021-04-30 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Mark:

> Sorry to hear of all your crashes and hangs Curry.

Thanks! The crashes and hangs are only the icing on the cake; 90% of the 
calories are normal bugs, glitches, and poor quality of feature support.


But I actually love bug-hunting, and finding a crash or hang is like a 
trophy specimen. (When I start to NOT love bug-hunting is when there are 
so many issues that I realize this part of LC simply isn't well-coded.)


Since I'm working on this, LC pasting will improve one way or the other:
either through Engine fixes (especially the crashers) and/or my own lib.
Improvement is inevitable; I've made up my mind to ensure that. :)

Paul:

> some overhaul of the LC code for interacting with the clipboard
> is warranted to improve reliability.

Amen! Thank you for that sentiment. I heartily agree.

With one caveat: with LC, I'm getting leery of words like "refactor" and 
"overhaul." That's because after all the excitement of a shiny new 
revision, too often the new code is just as buggy and limited as the old 
code was. From half-finished, to half-finished. Different, yet same.


I think what LC needs, in areas like the Player and the Paste, is not 
necessarily just shiny new code, but rather fully-finished code.

Whether that builds on the old, or starts fresh, I don't care.
Either way a feature needs to be finished and polished, not roughed in.

For example, I am aware that the Player API needs updating. That will be 
good! But after doing so, the Team should polish the Player up a bit. 
Don't leave it glitchy and buggy, the way we found it a year ago.


Maybe one additional caveat: Resources are always limited, of course, so 
if it comes down to choosing between polishing the Player, versus 
polishing Paste, I'd say the Team should mainly polish the Player!


Because I can (and am) polishing Paste up quite a bit myself.
LC shoulda, woulda, coulda done it MUCH better in the first place.
But I can fix some high-level stuff myself, other than the crashers.
LC Team should improve the Player, optimize the Engine, etc.

Richard:

> bugs that affect large numbers of people in ways that
> prevent core use of the product generally don't live long,
> if they live long enough to get past early beta at all.

I wish that were true! It probably is, in certain areas.
(And "large numbers" and "core use" provide nice cover fire.
Who knows, Paste might be a core use for more than a handful of people.)

The truth is that our Community, like most, has some social Cliques.
And every Clique has certain areas that it promotes over others.

The principles of "squeaky wheel" and "see what you want to see" apply.
The most vocal Clique may not be very "large" but they are very loud,
having an outsized effect on what gets added and fixed, versus ignored.

In their own areas of interest/need, they may notice bugs quickly.
Very good. But why have I been finding so many 5- and 10-year old bugs?
Seems like the Cliques missed a few. And of course the areas they aren't 
looking at, the areas they aren't promoting, may not seem important.


I'm not saying that's a sin; everyone has preferences and interests.
But to "the rest of us" some of those ignored areas are very important.
From time to time, I ensure that other Voices and Narratives are heard.
Hopefully before people get frustrated and look for greener pastures.

Not to worry! Paste, and other areas, are improving by the day

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Complete Crash or Engine Hang: which is better?

2021-04-29 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



(Full disclosure: Testing a "Cheerful Rant" format to see whether 
employing some humor is more effective when letting off steam, and 
hopefully even slipping a bit of common sense past politically-correct 
radars under the cover of attempted wit. We'll see how this fares, 
compared to the Standard Angry Rants and reflexive Community Defensive 
Reactions that we see every couple of weeks when people "Chimp Out" 
after a nasty ground-and-pound session with lovely LiveCode bugs! 
Trigger warning: may or may not induce mild chuckling, or in adverse 
cases traumatic Frontline Flashbacks to your bug battle days with 
intermittent seizures and a nasty full-body rash.)


So...first to apologize for being less talkative here on the list during 
the last week: I've been spending some intimate time with one of LC's 
least-polished and buggiest features. Yep, I'm back on "paste" and 
related areas! It's a part of LC where you could choose to devote the 
entire remaining years of your life to the Bug Monkhood, filing 
thousands of bug reports and feature requests. Or you can file the most 
important dozen reports, avoid full-time Monkhood, and sum it up as: 
this area of LiveCode looks only "half-finished." It was a case of Codus 
Interruptus, apparently.


More details on that and some other news to follow soon, when I've 
finished more workarounds, so that I can meet the client deadline and 
then file the bug reports


Meanwhile, here's a dilemma of another sort:

While working on paste and related areas that seem only half-finished in 
the LC Engine, I've been luxuriating in the blissful experience of 
having my coding and debugging interrupted by crashes and freezes. Did I 
lose any work, you might inquire? Ha ha, that'll be the day! You're 
talking to a person so save-compulsive that I can't even type a message 
like this without saving the draft after every sentence. (Save.) LC has 
trained me well, in the style of Pavlov's mutts. (Save, salivate.) So 
that's not even a problem.


No, the trouble is trying to decide whether my all-time favorite should 
be the Crash or the Hang.


Both are elegant ways of ending a work session. Yet each has its 
attractions, and even LiveCode's trusty conditioning hasn't provided me 
with a clear answer on which is better. (Wait, or has it? Save, 
salivate, wag.)


Crashing instantly out to the Desktop is convenient, because you're all 
set to relaunch LC again with not so much as an extra click. You can 
relaunch and crash, relaunch and crash, almost as fast as one of those 
toy monkeys with the cymbals, and with a similar overall appearance.


After you've done a few repeats, you also get a quicker start on your 
Cheerful Rant or your bug report. The complete instant crash (as long as 
the app simply disappears, with no system dialogs) is the epitome of a 
very clean and crisp user experience; I have to admire the purism. 
Finally, the nostalgia factor is huge: it really takes me back to LC 
1.1.1 and my first days here. ("Hey, where'd the IDE go?") Thus, the 
winner for classic style might be the Instant Crash. All the Cool Kids 
do this; you should too!


However, having the Engine "hang" can provide additional useful clues to 
the cause of the problem, in around 13% of all cases. That's 
automatically making lemons into lemonade, as long as your computer 
monitor was built up-to-snuff in Silicon Santa's third world sweatshops 
and the helpful clues don't "burn in" to the screen. The Hang also 
provides much of your recommended daily amount of Task Manager exercise 
with force-quit repetitions to bulk up mouse-hand and mouse-finger 
musculature on one side of your body, hermit-crab style. The asymmetric 
look will be trending any day now.


Meanwhile your CPU gets an extra workout too, and this provides an 
excellent test of your OS kernel in throttling and managing 
out-of-control processes. (Usually that means LC.) This even warms up 
your laptop on those cold mornings. And when someone asks you "how's it 
hanging" you can quip a very technical answer with the computer usage 
stats for that particular bug. ("Yeah my homie, it's hanging around 37% 
CPU load today.") Altogether, that's a ton of added value; the Hang has 
a lot of bang for the buck! This is Fat Jolly Giant Panda Buffet of 
session endings.


(For some there might be a childish tit-for-tat psychological appeal for 
the "Hang" in exercising control and closure over deciding when to force 
LC to quit. However, I would argue that's illusory; force-quit is almost 
always reactive. LC consistently maintains the iniative. The IDE 
arbitrarily chooses the moment and the manner to unceremoniously end 
your workflow, then forces you to take additional steps just to cool 
down your chip. Your only true choice is whether to relaunch or not. 
Therefore LC is calling the shots: LC = Pavlov. You're hoping for a 
little Beefaroni, maybe even a pat on the head: You = mutt. Force-quit, 
salivate.)


Therefore...if I had 

Re: On the dangers of automated refactoring

2021-04-15 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode


Andre:

> I like verbose code that is full of comments.

Ah yes, comments are good! But comments do not make code verbose.
Terse code can be heavily commented, and vice versa.
Commenting is not closely related to my issue, nor perhaps to yours.

Me:

> But there's an even bigger danger than the one already described:
> If a script needs many repeated changes to fix a single problem,
> usually that's because the code was not well-organized and modular.

Among all truly gigantic scripts that perform simple tasks,
usually you find habits of repetitive typing/pasting the same code.

For example, some people like to write out iterations themselves,
rather than using a repeat loop! It's like doing all the leg work.
"Hey Mr. Computer, let me do that for you!" But it creates problems.

Other people take a block of code or a handler for a task, copy it,
paste it, and make a few modifications again for a similar task.
And again. And again. Until there are dozens of similar blocks.

That works great until a problem shows up in one of the blocks.
After fixing it, congrats; only 49 other similar blocks to evaluate!

Each may require the same fix, or a slightly different fix, or none;
because each repeated code block or handler is a unique variation.
This turns what should be a tiny change into a mammoth undertaking. :)

Those are the habits that come back to haunt people later.
They are easy to avoid with good habits, harder to fix down the road!
That's why I'm careful to frequently warn about keeping code modular.

> Trying a "rename symbol” kind of procedure that acts on the
> whole script, might end up renaming the wrong variables.

I agree; it's a problem. Each portion of a script should be handled
with caution, with awareness of context, and with backups in place.
Keyhole surgery, first do no harm, are my approach to operating on code.

Good topic! Back to work

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: On the dangers of automated refactoring

2021-04-14 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Me:

>> The biggest code is the most repetitive and least modular!

Jacqueline:

> Not always, but often. I try to aim for the smallest code base,
> so I think the contest should be to solve a complex problem
> with the least amount of code.

Yes, but not brevity for its own sake! Rather for maintainability,
efficiency, and to avoid the code-org messes that people try to
refactor their way out of after practicing bad habits.

The optimal balance of brevity with performance, readability, and 
maintainability is where we'll find the best code!


That'll be fairly tight code, but not always the very smallest.
I do love concise code; I've seen some whopping humongous scripts! :)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: On the dangers of automated refactoring

2021-04-13 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Andre:

> Often in LiveCode (and most programming languages to be honest)
> we go coding for a long while and then realise that our code
> need extensive refactoring. We may have repeated a pattern over
> and over again and discovered that we need to change every
> instance of them, or something similar.

Speaking to LC users as a whole rather than Andre in particular,
tools to help with smart refactoring are useful. It all helps.
But there's an even bigger danger than the one already described:

Relying on tech to substitute for good fundamental coding skills.
If a script needs many repeated changes to fix a single problem,
usually that's because the code was not well-organized and modular.

With good coding habits, you will excel with or without such tools.
And when used carefully, they can increase your productivity.
But if you have powerful tools with bad habits, you'll have trouble.

Look at the F-35 stealth fighter, for example. Used in many nations.
Agile coding is a key enabler in the project, but bugs are a problem.
They've had cost increases and delays. Efficient coding is crucial.
Whether jets or vaccines, many lives actually depend on computer code.

In other words, good coding habits are more important than ever.
Software will win or lose wars and determine health outcomes.
You may not be in those line of work, but good habits save headaches!

Well-designed code is a joy to maintain. One problem = one change.
Modular, so that we're not repeating the same code with tiny variations.
There will be cases where old code needs a revision, but much easier.

Bob:

> We should have a contest: Who has the biggest code base.
> Mine's pretty big, but I doubt it's the biggest. :-)

The biggest code is the most repetitive and least modular!
I've seen scripts that were long enough to overwhelm the SE,
yet performed fairly simple tasks. Could be 1/10 the code.

Good topic. Back to work

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/


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Re: Find Replace in Script Editor with cr

2021-04-10 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Charles:

> Please do not ban anyone.

Somehow that struck me as a pure and beautiful sentiment!
Short and simple. It grew on me during the list silence today.

We can be punitive, or else help each other as we imperfectly stumble.

I'd hate to see the entire list hurt for the sake of a careless word;
and that is what would happen. Because weighing the pros and cons,
we lose more than we gain as we dwindle in number and viewpoints/skills.

Here, please allow me to do the honors:

Sorry. Deepest apologies to one and all.
And again sorry.

May those who are offended find healing and forgiveness.
May love prevail in all our interactions here and elsewhere.

Hope we can move on. So many LC matters to discuss. Have a good weekend!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Help! I'm stuck

2021-04-07 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Jacqueline:

> It's not a bug, it was intentionally introduced to allow a couple
> of features, like retaining script local variables after a build.
> Given the amount of extra scripting to work around it for existing
> stacks, I think it may have introduced more problems than it tried
> to cure.

Agreed! I was too busy the other day but wanted to chime in:
This was a baffling case of doubling-down on a wonky and toxic "fix."

The problems introduced were far more numerous than those "fixed."
I pointed this out right away, but it seems that hubris prevailed.
LC Ltd needs a more consistent vision of what LC is and how it works.

Result: workarounds are often needed for standard builds.
In what RAD paradigm should users have to workaround the IDE?
If that's a question we're even needing to ask, we may be in trouble.

(My own stack design usually makes this a moot point. I wasn't affected.
But I saw the expense and pain this caused, plus a troubling precedent.)

So ... isn't it great they teach everyone to double down these days?  :)
Turning off messages - good tactic, although it won't work for everyone.

Back to work, take care all

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Find Replace in Script Editor with cr

2021-04-07 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Sean:

> if there is a way of replacing using cr
> in the find/replace panel of the script editor.

So what you are REALLY asking is whether nested style arrays and chained 
behaviors can be used with tsNet and DataGrid in a git-compatible 
environment to create an IDE within an IDE, via a creepy talking face 
emerging from the Test button and utilizing only whitespace and 
semicolons sprinkled among seemingly-random iterations of the first 17 
words of the song Imagine? ;)


> BUT IN THE FIND/REPLACE PANEL !!!??

Oh, there! I don't know. I never trusted SE enough to use its replace.
Good question! I agree, this is a simple Q and should be documented.
Probably I would write a script for doing this; I'd trust it more.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like?

2021-03-30 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Me:

> Best solution: SDD.

*SSD

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like?

2021-03-30 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Tiemo:

> working with LC 9.6 on a fast win 10 machine
> the responsiveness of the IDE on every mouseclick
> or other action is almost not acceptable slow.

The biggest issue was not Windows per se, but rather disk access:
LC IDE's casual repetitive disk usage + modern antivirus + HDD.

Best solution: SDD.
Next best: Turn off some SE auto options, tweak antivirus.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: LC Bug: Copying an Image fails

2021-03-19 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Bob:

> MS Office copy operations are notoriously problematic.
> Microsoft maintains their own clipboard format, so that when
> switching to another product the clipboard must be translated.
> Other apps may do the same.
> The translation does not always go to plan.

Eh ... I think this is a more useful current summary:

1. The Windows blank pasted image bug was about a data stream pointer.
Thanks to the LC Team for looking into that; hope it's merged sooner.

2. There's a crash for some copied image data. Not just MS Office.

3. Mac has image copy/paste troubles too. Also not just MS Office.
I'll report that soon, and we'll probably see improvement.

4. There are dozens of issues with copied content being converted in LC.
I'm crushing many of those with workarounds, so improvement there too!

Is copy/paste between apps effortless? No.
Do users expect it? Yes.
Even with the most popular apps? Of course!
There are problems, but also progress

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: LC Bug: Copying an Image fails

2021-03-17 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Sean:

> char 1 of rawclipboarddata["CF_BITMAP"] crashes it

That's simply standing on principle, which I find admirable!
After all, give us a char and we'll likely take ... an image. :)

But on the tech side, not surprising; char 1 of (the data).

--

Paul:

> I would consider this a serious LC bug.

Indeed it is!
Nor is this limited to rawclipboarddata.
Nor is it limited even to MS Word

I can trigger the same crash with a copied image from OpenOffice.
All it takes is reading either of these:

fullClipboardData["windows metafile"]
fullClipboardData["windows enhanced metafile"]

I'll be filing a bug report (maybe two) this week.

--

Paul:

>  Return an error code or even just empty or something

A very prophetic statement; that appears to be the case on Mac.
I copy a Word image, LC "paste" is not enabled.

Thus, likely image copy/paste trouble is not limited to Windows.
(As opposed to the separate hard crash bug.)

In which case it should be an even more "relevant" priority.
More news on that after I've tested with latest LC.

--

Finally, I've heard that the LC Team will be taking a look.
That's encouraging news; thanks LC Team!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: LC Bug: Copying an Image fails

2021-03-16 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Sean:

> put the keys of the rawclipboarddata

Yes, I have a little clipboard browser stack for that.
There are regular, full, and raw keys. Joy awaits

> or any other CF_, it crashes out of LC altogether

I had that joyful experience earlier today, with my test stack.
You gotta love it, right? Really ups the challenge.
LC always trains to the fight, so that we are the best of the best.

(Nice try, LC, I'm a compulsive stack saver! Fool me twice.)

Has anyone reported the crash yet? Or does that joy also await?

> 'do as javascript'

Thanks for the idea. I'll experiment further later this week.
(Unless anyone has a confirmed workaround already.)

I'm also going to test this on Mac soon.
Bugs get super "relevant" if they hit the Macophiles too. :)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
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LC Bug: Copying an Image fails

2021-03-16 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



LC Bugathon continues

Recently I ran into this bug, which Trevor already reported:

"Unable to paste images copied from Microsoft Word on Windows"
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21906

Copying an image directly (not inline with text) fails.
The clipboarddata contains nulls, in testing so far.
Just tested on 9.6.2 RC 3.

Any known script workaround?

(A user behavior workaround, ie copying inline, is not very acceptable.)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: sort container parameters

2021-03-03 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Inline sort param variables:

If anyone files this bug report/feature request, let me know!
I will sign on

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: sort container parameters

2021-03-02 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Paul:

> apparently neither the sort direction (ascending|descending)
> nor the sort type (international|text|datetime|numeric|binary)
> can be variable!

> I see this a a bug or perhaps a failure to fully
> robust impliment the sort container command?
> Does any one else see this as a bug?

Absolutely a bug or extremely annoying limitation!
I've been hating this for a long time.

> I suppose I could work around it with a "do"
> but that seems like a cludge

There has been no performance hit for "do" as a one-off.
So I don't mind using "do" once. I try to avoid it in loops.
Test, and you'll see that in your results.

Meanwhile "do" is arguably cleaner and smaller code than if/else.
But still a clumsy abomination compared to using an inline variable.

Any bug report on this issue gets my vote! Yes, it's a bad thing.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
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LC Bugmageddon or Bugportunity?

2021-02-23 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Me, recently:

> I don't have any big headaches, thank God!

That's true; it's rare that I get stuck. I'm workaround-musclebound. :)
But I do understand why people get headaches and get stuck.
Hope I didn't sound aloof from the problems; just busy working around.

It's not just features; it's LiveCode's level of quality/bugs!
Only in the last few days, I've run across:

- two, maybe three clipboard copy/paste bugs or deficiencies
- a PDF bug or limitation
- a field glitch, and a couple of other suspicious behaviors
- oh yeah, and a hard crash (almost forget)

So I'll recipe and search/report those right after meeting my deadline.
Meanwhile, I see many old friends/old bugs still in the latest LC!
Rule of thumb: if you try ANY new route in LC, usually there's a bug.
When you use an old route, often still the same bug, or a new twist.

I can handle that. It's where the "workaround muscles" really help!
Rarely bothers me, unless there's a showstopper on a tight deadline.
I even enjoy a good workaround session; it's what I do for a living.

But when beginners and intermediate users run into LC bugs, it's tough.
Confuses them to sort their own bugs from LC's, much less solving them.
Who do bugs hurt most? Newbies, people on deadlines, and LC itself.

I've helped many newbies and oldbies get past LC bugs and get unstuck.
With various competition, being buggy won't help make the world LC.
I've warned about quality for many years. New code should be good code!

(Yes, my own addons still need updating: the proverbial speck & log.
Although here the log usually derives from the speck! It's coming.
I know this would sound better if my own stuff was finished first.
But I must and will stay involved, and speak up, while doing that.)

We all build on top of the LC layer: the proverbial sandy/solid ground.
Your software. My addons. Your clients. My clients. The IDE.
The ground we build upon is more crucial than any single thing we build.

THE GOOD NEWS:

There are tactics you can use to roll past bugs and soldier on!
I'll be sharing some of those as soon as I write them up.
Choice of dev tactics can really make or break a project.
The key is how to leverage LC's strong points and avoid its weak points.
That's the bright side, or "Bugportunity" of the situation.

This can help coders survive and thrive in LC-land without headaches.
To some extent, it can negate the effects of bugs and limitations.
I had to adjust my own tactics for MORE LC bugs & LESS CK energy/health!
I'm still not Speedy Gonzales yet, but it's getting better

So that's why I decided to write again. To the frustrated, there's hope!
I know we always hear the same mantras and see the same approaches.
This is NOT stuff you've heard; I'm the anti-mantra: mostly original.
Just need to finish writing them up, and I'll share.
My increased involvement on this list is the first step toward releases.

As I also mentioned recently, credit where due: LC fixes MANY bugs!
If we look at # of bugs fixed, it's impressive.

Problem is that there are many MORE bugs. One gets fixed, another added.
So far I haven't noticed a big reduction in the # of bugs ADDED.
We're mere mortals, so I suggest turning the tide by reducing NET bugs.
Either way, whether LC stays buggy or improves, users can succeed!

THE GLASS-HALF-BUGGY NEWS:

But tactics are like an uber-bandaid; easy to forget about the injury.
Later that can lead to further injury, infection, gangrene, etc. :)
From there, the Apocalypse. That's the "Bugmageddon" half of my message.

I saw a funny YouTube animal video comment: "Damn nature, you scary!"
Likewise, sometimes "Wow LC, you pretty buggy!" It's part luck & habit.
If you have experience and stick to what works, smooth sailing.
And of course, often sailing on top of previous workarounds.
But when you need something different - boom! Likely to hit an LC bug.

Tactics help there, too. Leverage LC's strong points & good code to win.
But LC still needs fewer bugs. Fixing one bug without adding another.
We all help, but ultimately it's LC's job/decision to reduce LC's bugs.

I do my part: I'll start reporting this latest bug batch ASAP.
Not only that, I'll post resources on tactics & LC paradigm when I can.
Along with addon updates and some next-gen tools! Good things coming.

Other people, and LC Ltd themselves, have great stuff coming soon too.
So it's an exciting time! But I hope LC Bugs are decimated soon.
Having a solid product would help LC reach a wider audience.

This has always been a consistent problem in LC, from v111 to v962.
Luckily we can usually work around bugs, but a solid LC would rock!
Time to reach a new LC generation. Tools & tactics help, bugs don't.

BTW LC, thanks for fixing the PDF bug blacking out fields with columns.
That, and several other recent fixes, have really made a difference!!

But oh man, there are still a bunch. Back to the workarounds/reports

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, 

Re: LC Roadmap

2021-02-19 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



e.beugelaar at me.com:

> https://www.b4x.com if u dont want headaches.

Thanks for the tip - looks pretty neat. I like the website.
Before going all-in with LiveCode, I did a lot with VB-style code.

HOWEVER, I don't have any big headaches, thank God!
Nor do I feel any need to try another IDE.
On the contrary: I'm enjoying LiveCode more than ever.

I'm fluent in LC syntax, so it comes as naturally as writing an email.
Fluency is underappreciated. Copy-paste coding is an alluring trap.
(LC syntax is NOT English, and understanding the difference helps.)

Being specialized, I have solid dev tactics and stick with what works.
If I take a new path, I run some tests BEFORE going too far.

So things are going well, and will only get better!
I'm also gradually creating next-gen code for my addons and general dev.
And more. Good things are on the way

That said, if I ever decide to have a headache :) it'd probably be:

- Code quality and bug density of LC Engine and Components
- Inconsistency between some LC features versus the overall paradigm

Those have obvious deficiencies, but I've noted them & adjusted tactics.
And I'll be taking action in both areas, so not too worried.

Good luck and good coding!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: LC Roadmap

2021-02-14 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



JeeJeeStudio:

> I like Livecode a lot, but it has it's limitations,
> lot of bugs are not solved.

True. Would be more accurate with "yet" added; solving bugs is ongoing!
We could also say that many bugs HAVE been solved. Moderate progress.
(I know, having been on the front lines of the bug-reporting battle.)

I attribute bug density to dev strategy during the "Great Refactoring."
Good: Kickstarter project threw money/man-hours at LC to achieve a lot.
Bad: Code quality was mediocre; lots of bugs introduced at that time.
(We are STILL finding and reporting LC 7 and 8 bugs.)

Problem: Digging out from under myriad bugs takes big money/man-hours.
Meanwhile: Platforms, especially Apple and Mobile, are moving targets.

Traditional solution: Use a new campaign, like FM, for cashflow.
Underlying philosophy: Quality = energy/money/time.
Potential weakness: History could repeat itself. New code quality??

My proposed solution: Decrease net bugs with more careful coding.
Underlying philosophy: New code should be good code. (Almost zero-sum.)
Potential weakness: Too late for the Refactoring; only useful from now.

> Livecode is great! Don't misunderstand and it learns a lot of
> people to program. But it runs behind future facts.

Some truth there too, but it misses a (gigantic) point. In fact, two:

A. A good IDE is not ONLY about features, bugs, and platforms.
B. LC's benefit is not ONLY about being easy to learn. (When it is.)

If that's the only reason you're here, you don't understand LC!

And you're not the only one. Even those at the top have missed it.
Raney failed to see it: He considered MC a stepping stone to C.
LC Ltd also missed part of it: many unique benefits under-promoted.
And the way some features are added CONTRADICTS the LC paradigm.

LiveCode - and the legacy of HyperCard - is not Just Another IDE.
People have usually failed miserably at explaining the magic.
("Easy English-like language?" Way too vague! Also missing the point.)
Too few good analyses, too much parroting weak/transient slogans.

I intend to do a bit myself in that area soon, explaining what HC/LC is.
(I had health/energy problems, thus some detractors, but they'll see!)
The unique strengths of LC paradigm -yes, paradigm- deserve attention.
That's why I'm making it a point to be more active on this list.

That paradigm is why many of us are here: not just a handy-dandy tool.
It's a worldview of how to code - which should be updated not discarded.
This paradigm has extreme value; likely more than even LC Ltd realizes.
That's why I'm making it a point to be more active on this list!

Growing the audience again requires understanding/promoting that value.
You can't just swap in any XYZ tool/language for LC. It ain't the same!
Nor is success ONLY about winning the feature and platform arms race.
That, but so much more. Paradigm is key. It has been neglected too long.

We must MAKE THE CASE for LC. Some have tried (thanks!) but not enough.
I feel paradigm is equally important to explain to LC Ltd, as to users.

> HTML5 is a drag in LC, unusable, to play ok, to really use no way..

Not much argument there! Hopefully good things coming.

> And next to it I'm learning Flutter platform with Dart
> as main language, it's free, it's the future

Thanks for sharing that. It looks pretty good.
However, really the future? Maybe not!
End of LC? "Hell no!" :D

(At least, if LC Ltd play their hand well.)

Again, there's #1. Paradigm - more on that soon, when I have time.
But also several other factors in play:

2. Current and future tech changes; you ain't seen nothing yet!
3. Mega corp competition; Apple & others will frequently reinvent.
4. Tech giant control; Silicon Valley oversteps, people will push back.
5. Corporations are good at innovation, also good at screwing up.

The control factor might bite Google and Apple soon:
should I build there, when Powers That Be can pull the plug anytime?
Increasingly, the big guys don't follow their own rules; it's arbitrary.

Tip: they just love control, whether visual fashion trends or ideology.
What they encourage one year may become a "sin" the next. (Hi, Apple!)
Very often it's simply dollars and cents; more control means more fees.

Meanwhile, you're at the mercy of their tech whims.
Whatever they think should be the new trend, you must do.
Modern corporate strategy is to reinvent for profit; relentless change.

Factor #5 is also big for me. Remember how Google would "fix" search?
They "fixed" it alright! They killed it; try searching a non-trend.

So do I want to leap into Google's IDE?

Trust them to "fix" software development? To decide what I should do?
To reinvent every 5 minutes if the corporate bottom line demands it?
To see the present and the future more clearly than I do myself?
Bow to their proverbial calf and kiss their toes since they're big?

So incredibly tempting...(not really)...no thanks! :)
I gave them a chance to improve the Internet, and they maimed it.
With that much money 

Re: Close Stack Cleanup

2021-02-09 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Jacque:

> I did a test before answering and the message was sent to the card
> of my otherwise blank stack, after dismissing the IDE dialog.

Same here!

Bob:

> there have been at least 2 versions that were unstable that crash
> to desktops were not uncommon, and after losing so much data, I
> save frequently, and auto save whenever I close a sub stack.

I agree, saving carefully/saving "big-league" is a must for LC IDE! :)
Got in the constant-save habit way back with version 1.1.1.
(Which had a tendency to vanish in the middle of a coding session.)

Here's what I do (and it all works, no message problems, no bugs):

1. If I edit any script, I manually save when I apply changes.
(I don't write more than 3 lines of code before saving.)

2. If I edit any UI or properties, I manually save.
(I save every 5 minutes or less, and before leaving a dirty card.)

3. Before I close any stack I've edited, I MANUALLY save.
And if I use auto-clean, it's hooked up to saveStackRequest. Reliable.
No message difficulties. And I know it's saved.*
(If I forget to save, it warns me. That's my backup if habit fails.)

4. *For each of the above, #1-#3, I look for the dialog while saving.

5. *And every session (and before closing an edited stack) I look at the
stack in the Finder/Desktop to check the Mod date. I also make a copy.
("Sorta trust, but verify the heck out of it." There can be the known
disassociated-SE, or other bugs, that prevent IDE from really saving.)

6. *If in step #4 or #5 I find that it wasn't really saved,
I can save again or take any other necessary steps I deem appropriate,
because ... I have NOT closed the stack yet! That's why.
I intentionally save, then double check, then intentionally close.

IOW, If you and I don't trust the IDE enough to let it decide when we
should save (which is a big part of the reason this thread exists) ...

... then why should I trust it to SAVE FOR ME when I close a stack?
To me, that seems risky, plus it's not building on the same premise.

Even if the IDE did NOT have a known bug (or complication) and even if
the close message DID usually work, I would still save manually,
each and every time before closing a stack. That way I know.

(LC IDE should be more reliable, yet there is a silver lining:
it has taught me to save more carefully in EVERY app!
Because the idea of a completely reliable app instance is fantasy;
the computer itself could have a hardware or OS failure at any moment.
My manic LC save habits have "saved" me in other apps, more than once.)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Double sided PDF Problem

2021-02-04 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Richard:

> they still offer a business card size with rounded corners -
> I'm taking it as a challenge to bring the card content
> down to just the essentials. ;)
> https://www.avery.com/products/cards/88220

Thanks for that link - good idea! Mini cards look great.

I doubt my own hands can manipulate that small size, though.
Maybe I'll use printed labels on blank playing cards for creative stage.
Then order the final design from a pro printing service.

Paul:

> I currently work for the company that owns that brand.

That's neat! I enjoyed your comments.

BTW, encourage 'em to restock some products like #4785!
(COVID may have increased the need for both DIY games and Ed, right?)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

2021-02-04 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Mark:
> I agree with others that this isn't a Good Idea,
> and a cleaning routine in preOpenStack would do the trick nicely.

Amen, Brother Mark! Good Idea to avoid Bad Habits.
(Agreed, except a small but crucial difference in details)

As Tore said:
> execute the necessary routines as part of a preOpenStack handler

Again, with a small but important difference:

The preOpenStack handler is NOT ideal for this type of cleanup.
"Literally, to "clear the fields" of a stack."
(And now we also know, a "complex" stack.)
That is NOT something best done in preOpenStack.

A complex stack usually has multiple cards.
The user is going from one card to the other - perhaps more than once.
You need this type of cleanup triggered by preOpenCard!
Whereas preOpenStack and startup are better for general init.
Keep it modular; preOpenCard and Clear Form can call the same code.

(You both already probably know that and do it.
Just making an explicit point for other readers who are learning.
People always tell me things they read here! They take it to heart.)

If you clean up fields in preOpenCard, you're ready for the end user.
But your saved stack may be very BLOATED at times!
Large amount data in a field, image, etc.

(And yes, in these days of interim-capacity SSDs, disk space matters.
Your stack will also be saved in a more cluttered state.)

To solve that easily, as I've said: use saveStackRequest!

That way your stack is SAVED clean and non-bloated.
You can freely test larger data samples.
Stacks are small for sharing within your dev team.

Your users will NEVER see your test data entries.
(Even if a preOpenX handler fails due to runtime bug,
which I've seen happen fairly often in stacks people make!
Potential embarrassments automatically averted.)
It's also perfect for simpler stacks with one card.

Bob:
> Back to the drawing board.

Not if you take the advice of myself and others!
Proven solutions, well-tested over time, reliable, that work TODAY.
(But I do like the IDE bug report; the IDE tramples some messages.)
Good topic! People will learn from it. Thanks for starting it.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

2021-02-04 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Tore:

> I do not do any clean up at closing time. Instead I execute
> the necessary routines as part of a preOpenStack handler.
> I then do not have to consider which way the stack was closed.

Yes! Like you, for cleanup I also avoid that how-closed consideration.
Much easier to have a simpler single trap.

Yet I ALSO avoid saving user/test data!
That keeps my files smaller in their saved state.

And if opened with messages off, still cleaner

Bob:

> when I open the stack the next time I do not want to
> remains of what I was doing before to show.

You can! Several routes to choose. Presenting the easiest.

Me again:

> I perform cleanup when I save.

In other words, try saveStackRequest!
Don't "save" with your own code; let LC IDE do that.
Just perform your cleanup, then pass.
That way your cleaned-up stack is reliably saved.

You get the best of both - simple trap, reliable.

(However, your original method would work - if you finish it!
And while typing this, I see you already made progress; that's good.)

Tore again:

> By keeping it modular, the clean up script can also
> be started from other handlers if necessary.

Agreed!
Modularity increases performance, maintainability, and freedom.
Can't stress this enough.

Me again:

Don't think "clean up and save." Keep the twain separate.
I choose when to save, it's a conscious choice, and it fires my cleanup.
My stack is almost always saved clean.

Moreover I'm in the habit of saving (and backing up) BEFORE closing.
Habits are so important - they avoid needless suffering.

If I do forget my habit, the IDE will prompt me to save.
So I'm still OK - because I haven't disabled the system. It's my backup.
Nor do I rely primarily on that system. It's my backup. ;)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

2021-02-04 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode


Bob:

> I am trying to clean up my stack (i.e. clear the fields),
> then save it when I close it

This is a good topic for LiveCode learners; I'm chiming in

I often do something similar - but with an important difference:
I perform cleanup when I save. I do NOT force an auto save.
(More on that later.)

> BY ANY MEANS. That means by script, by menu OR by clicking the red dot
> (of for WIN users the red X) in the title bar.
> I need this to work in the IDE as well as in standalone.

So, let's halt at this point and take inventory of your desires!
You want to trap at least 3 methods of initiating a close action.
(Tally: 3)

Furthermore, IDE versus Standalone is an extra complexity.
I don't like that, but it is the unfortunate reality.
So I'm accounting for that extra complexity via a "+" designation!
(Tally: "3+")

Now jumping ahead a bit to make a connection:

> If I use “CloseStack” instead

Remember our tally of "3+" Actions?
The word "instead" suggests you're assuming a SINGLE trap.

Everyone here should know my KISS philosophy: less is better.
3 birds with one stone is superior; I'm always harping on that.
But then again, in this case you have 3+ birds! :)

I'd hazard a guess on 2 traps - that's my experience for similar cases.
(But if one will work, use one.)

> You would think closeStackRequest gets sent when I
> click the red dot or X. You would be mistaken.

Actually I would NOT be mistaken, as long as we're talking about the X,
and the stack has been named/saved at least once. Just tested it!

But among the "extra complexity" I mentioned, if the stack is dirty,
the IDE will trap the close action at the front, BEFORE you get it.
It can still fire, but AFTER you dance around a bit with the IDE.
(Important to note that's the IDE; closeStackRequest does respond.)

To succeed in the IDE, you may indeed need to use closeStack.
But that's probably "with" not "instead" of closeStackRequest!

We can still follow KISS and avoid duplicating code,
via modularity - the 2 traps can call a common set of code.
Using params or other means to handle the differences in the 2/3 cases.

> I just want it to be saved. I can force quit if I mess something up.

I DISCOURAGE using a custom auto-save and resorting to force quit.
If you implement an auto-save, do it very well.
(And done well, a force-quit would not likely be Plan A for reverting.)

But I encourage cleanup when saving or when closing. I do it constantly.
It just requires a set of trap(s) that does spring for the 3 actions.
You're half way there, just think "AND" not "instead" to finish it!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: Double sided PDF Problem

2021-02-02 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Paul:

>> ... but why?

Richard:

> 1. Because we can.  It's fun to figure stuff out.

Yes, it is! :)

> 2. Print-and-Play tabletop games.

This special printer paper looks way too fun:

https://www.avery.com/products/cards/4785

(Discontinued already? Que lastima!
This thread is giving me intense desire for DIY cards)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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Re: Double sided PDF Problem

2021-02-02 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Paul:

> I'm sure this could all be worked out as far as
> how to do the layout and printing directly from LiveCode... but why?

Good question! Might be a good reason, but not much point in guessing.
The bigger question is: what was the true original problem?

Brian:

> The problem is, printing 3 wide by 4 tall, aligning the two.

Fun exercise - in both respects! Hope it printed well.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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Re: numberformat, trunc and round

2021-02-02 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



jbv:

> if myvar = trunc(myvar) then

Different approach: I prefer "mod" for loop breakouts/pitstops.
Very clean way to determine action for certain loop iterations!
Useful for fractional values too, in LC versions thus far.

> set numberformat to "#.000"

You can easily set the numberformat twice, if necessary, in the loop.
And/or take control over whether your comparison is text or binary.
(The numberformat gets involved when converting binary to text.)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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Re: Smooth scrolling

2021-02-01 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



David:

> My impression is that a LiveCode field scrolls less smoothly
> than a comparable field in some other programs

Fair impression. :)

> 25,000 words into a word wrapped scrolling field

Performance does degrade as text size increases.
(Exponentially, after a certain point.)

> Does anyone know the underlying cause of this,

For fun, try the same text in LC 5.5 or 4.6!
I would expect snappier results.

Performance took a huge hit with LC 7 and 8.
There was (and is) a myth that this is completely due to Unicode.
But in a series of videos and published tests, I proved otherwise.
Many other areas were impacted. So beware of that myth!

So Unicode (and the way it was implemented) played a part,
but it's not the only culprit. This is an ongoing saga.
To their credit, the LC team has made good optimizations in a few areas!
Mark was quite responsive to the "need for speed."
On the flip side, overall LC performance remains ... underwhelming.

> or a remedy?

It helps to optimize your own code/UI/setup as much as you can:

Most LC user code is poorly organized and wastes tons of CPU time.
Many times people also have extravagant or sloppy UI.
And their problem-solving setup is not focused; lots of extra crap.
Tightening up all these can help a LOT! You'll see results.

Bonus good news: Standalone will run a little smoother than IDE.
(IDE is a bit on the bloatware side.)
Optimize all you can, and your build may be blessed a bit extra! :)

Beyond that, the ultimate solution is join the effort.
Make a useful test stack, maybe a video to demo results.
Design the test code well. Post a bug report.

I'm still involved in this campaign, but currently "mute" -
post-COVID, breathing got worse; can't talk in video or on phone.
But I'm adjusting to that - I'll be using sound effects, TTS, whatever.
So hopefully this year I'll get another test and video posted.

I encourage others (and yourself) to do the same!
I believe LC can be quite a bit faster.
So far, I've been proven correct

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: Which of the current FTP legends should I be using?

2021-02-01 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Me:

>> Try tsNetUploadFile - fewer steps!

Bruce:

> Thanks, much appreciated.

No problem. That's why I love, and preach, KISS!

(My father taught me "Keep It Simple (Stupid)" at an early age.
Probably around 7 years old. Military aircraft electrician.
They popularized this phrase - and they needed it most.) :)

By minimizing steps, it's easier to implement.
Also we maximize already-tested code. (Assuming it's good code.)
That minimizes the opportunity for mistakes, such as...

Matthias:

> how did you fill the pData parameter? Did you use
> put URL "binfile:..." into pData

Yep, good possibility!

Me again:

About existing code that people use as tsNet samples, I've noticed:
Some of the code is not well-organized for modularity and KISS.
(Basically, not well-organized, period.)

Maybe I or someone else here can post better samples when there's time.
That would get code sample consumers off to a better start.
"Keep It Simple" is a powerful coding philosophy that pays off

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: Which of the current FTP legends should I be using?

2021-01-30 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Bruce:

> tsNetUploadSync
> binary files are corrupted

Try tsNetUploadFile - fewer steps!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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Re: Text field in Windows standalone not receiving keyboard focus

2021-01-29 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode


Andrew:

> I can’t add a breakpoint because the Remote Debugger
> will take focus from the standalone

Behold the power of the log file:
Logs DOMINATE standalone debugging for all but the simplest issues.
They don't affect focus, either.

(Remote Debugger is cool, but like most things, has big limitations.)

> If I add an answer “foo” the focus is properly shifted
> to the field after the modal.

Yes, I've seen that happen! And getting focus back by switching the app.
Familiar, but can't recall the culprit. Also, might have been on Mac:
one Mac project with a window shape and floating window acted up.
The more complexity a stack has, the more things can interact.

I do remember this: it didn't take long to fix or work around!
That's why it was a fleeting memory. So take heart.

If pasting can work around it, so can your code. Take charge of focus.
Or even better, finish debugging and fix the underlying cause.

> The card also doesn’t receive this message until the focus issue
> is resolved as described before

So someone else is receiving those keystrokes. Who?
Could be a script. A stack. A control that doesn't pass the message.
(And for each of those - could be yours, or LiveCode's/third party.)

Use your log, record where the focus is, pin down the perp.
Record the relevant field properties too, just in case.

>> - any front script or other library intercepting keystrokes?
> Nope

Is that proven, or just AFAYK?

But I wouldn't be surprised if it's a stack or other group/control.

> Datagrid, but not on this field or parent group.

DG is beautiful, but so often introduces issues.
Of course I wouldn't rip it out at this late point.
It might not be the culprit. Even if it is, you can work around.

Good news: pretty easy to fix or work around this!
I've had a very similar issue

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
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LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: Double sided PDF Problem

2021-01-29 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode


Brian:
> I’d like to print decks of cards, front and back

This post has become a master puzzle of its own!
Enough detail to elicit solutions, yet still open-ended.
Each answer makes its own assumptions, and solves a different problem.
But I like it. So OK, I'll join. Here goes

My own assumptions derive from Keep It Simple (KISS) code philosophy.
So I'm not going to read more into the problem than necessary.
I tend to prefer the simplest and most universal answer.
Also with the fewest dependencies.

> The front page is always easy. Cards print left to right: 1-3
> Flipping the pages, in portrait layout, the cards are now
> face down, in order but reversed: 3,2, 1.

I'm not going to make ANY assumptions about print drivers solving it.
(Unless first tested in LC, on target platforms, with target printers.)

Bob and Jacque might be right. These days, drivers usually auto-fit.
But often LC doesn't fit assumptions! Test first; don't build on theory.

The way I read it, so far this is already solved by the 321 reversal.
Brian already has his images in the proper order, front and back.
And that approach should be very universal; no dependencies.
I would expect it to work for any printer, or PDF, any platform.

There was no mention of booklets or alternating margins, so I'm not 
adding that to the problem. Choosing a simple interpretation.


> The problem is, printing 3 wide by 4 tall, aligning the two.

I see this as just lining up the front and back images precisely so that 
the cards can be cut out. Right now, one side is too far left, or down?


So my suggestion is:

1. Make sure your images are PRECISELY spaced in their arrangement.
(Use code if necessary.)

2. Group the images.
(Or whatever type of controls you are using for the playing cards.)

3. Set loc of group to loc of the LC card.

(And LC card widths are usually divible by 2, so center might be a pixel 
different front and back, if you're using the same group of images. 
Depending on image design and driver auto-fit, usually that's moot.

But if it's a problem, easy to solve - several good options.)

Did I guess right about the nature of the problem? :)
Nice topic!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
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LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: OT Friendly customers....

2021-01-28 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Bob:
> Why am I still seeing this?

Why are you continuing this topic? And quoting the entire text?
I consider the topic closed, and the horse just about beaten to death.
Dead yet? Yeah...probably. Just about.

I didn't start this, or even continue it - I received a series of 
unprovoked attacks. Each time I've responded only to correct the facts.

The posts are all archived, and that's easily proven. This time too.

But I am sorry that anyone else had to see this discussion.
For that matter, sorry I had to see it too! I don't want it.
Incredible waste of time and list space.
This was Stephen's topic, so I can't answer the why. No idea.
Stephen owns this topic and his political comments.
Nor do I have the slightest interest in it.

I suggest again that we move off this topic, and stick to LC discussion.
Maybe next time you can quote an entire post that's LC-related!
Back to LC please. Thanks.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
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LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: OT Friendly customers....

2021-01-28 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Stephen:

> forgive me that last post was supposed to be for Curry only

Stephen, I want to thank you for providing verification of the kind of 
hate speech/harrassment you were sending offline.


And for the record, I didn't attack you - I mentioned the FBI's lack of 
action when commenting on the proliferation of scams. Didn't start that 
thread, nor that topic. Didn't promote politics; stated my position 
AGAINST politicizing institutions, so that real crime can be addressed.


Nor did I mention Trump or a political position.

You ILLOGICALLY jumped to the conclusion that I was talking about this 
year's political situation (ignoring the details, including the dates 
that clearly preceded the situation you have in mind) and decided to 
mentally place me into a category of people that you hate.


Then you proceeded to attack ME (based on irrational reasoning) and send 
me hateful messages. Along with creepy demands to know which "team" I'm on.


You proactively mentioned Trump and your own brand of politics.
I didn't mention any political position to you.

I couldn't care less about your political opinions or proclivities.
I'm not bothered if you have "zero respect" or hate me based on your 
prejudices and illogical thinking.


I do find it disturbing when I see hatred, but it doesn't bother me 
personally when it's directed at me. I'll sleep just fine!


Rest assured that I'm definitely not on your "team."
You can keep all that offlist - and remember, I'm not your offlist.
Start a hate blog, or talk to your buddies about it.

But I do care about logic. Look at the years: you messed up.
All that ranting and raving, interrupting a thread with attacks, all 
based a false premise: assuming that I was talking about this year's 
events. Congratulations!


Now, can we get back to LC or not?

I've stated that I am AGAINST politicizing organizations including this 
list. Nor do I want your offlist rants. LC only please!


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
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LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: Text field in Windows standalone not receiving keyboard focus

2021-01-28 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Andrew:

> You can click in the field and the blinking I-bar is inserted,
> but typing on the keyboard does nothing.

I love field topics!

Win/Mac differences can really hit you, even on a stack that you thought 
was well-tested. Because only well-tested on one platform.


This glitch sounds familiar from the past, but I've had less Mac work 
than usual for the past few months; mostly Windows. Rusty this month.

I think I've seen this, but can't remember the cause.

I've seen cases where the app or stack would lose focus.
Other cases where the control itself loses focus.
On Windows, a button may get the focus depending on properties.
But usually you would lose the blinking.

And I've seen scripts intercept the keystrokes.
They may act differently per platform.

To diagnose it methodically, if blinking really continues during typing:

- add a keydown handler in the field. Is it received?
- add a keydown handler in the card. Who's the target?
- any front script or other library intercepting keystrokes?
- any behaviors?

Knowing what control is actually getting those keystrokes will lead you 
to the culprit. (Or even whether your stack/app is getting them.)


And if the normal culprits are exonerated, don't forget the more obscure 
and exotic possibilities:


- white text, or textshift?
- text added but clipped by a tabstop?
- does all your startup code get executed? (And preopencard/stack code?)
- is this a real Windows machine or virtualized setup?

(Weird things can happen if a startup-type script is interrupted 
silently by an error.)


> This ONLY happens in executable on Windows, not in IDE

That's always the biggest tip-off.
So unless it's an LC bug/glitch, this can be effective:

- check standalone inclusions
- add error reporting to the standalone

Without reporting, errors in exe are silent - and you might say, deadly.
After an error, any code after it is not executed.

> Pasting text into any of these fields seems to unlock the ability
> to type, as does switching to another application and switching back,
> but only until you leave the card and come back again.

That's a big tip-off too. Any card script? Any paste script?
There may be a script modifying a field property.
Or another control getting in the way.
All those can be tested and confirmed. You can log field properties.

When you find it, could you let me know?
I feel like I've seen this before. and would like to job my memory

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
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LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: Call lc from php?

2021-01-28 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Richard:

> For those of you who haven't seen Ralf's recent work
> on the revIgniter site [...]

It's been on the edge of my radar, but never had a chance to use it yet. 
Thanks for the testimonial and reminder! Hope to try it later this year.


Rick:

> Why are you still using PHP when LC is better?

Technically, depends on how you define "better."
PHP definitely wins in some areas.
And there are already a lot of well-tested tools available for PHP.

But in general, I share your sentiment. I'm "all in" for LC.

I'm one of the few who are 100% specialized in LiveCode for all 
development. But I predict that will be a growing segment.


I think it's great when LC can tie into other interfaces - the more of 
that the better. And PHP is a giant. Good reason to tie in. Win-win.

It will actually make even MORE projects suitable for LC.
Or easier; most of this stuff was already possible for a long time.

If a job can be done in LiveCode, that's where I'm doing it.
And it's difficult to find a job that can't be done here.
People STILL don't realize all that LC can do

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
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LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: OT Friendly customers....

2021-01-28 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode


Jerry:

> Please keep it offlist.

Sorry, guy. Any implication that I'm bringing brand-new stuff onlist is 
inaccurate; sharing an offlist definition of what was meant by "team" - 
which was used right here online.


> Ce fromage pue !

Je ne sais pas. Je n'ai jamais goûté de fromage français. Et la 
discussion sur le fromage est déconseillée ici.


Back to LiveCode discussion would be a good direction!

I know it's hard for some.
But you can. Concentrate: LiveCode

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
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LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: OT Friendly customers....

2021-01-28 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Stephen:

> Curry's gaslight and personal attack

Sorry guy, not true. Simply holding your post up to logic.
You are political, so maybe you see politics everywhere.

As I wrote to you offlist, in reply to your hateful and cursing rant:

"Look again at my post. Notice the timeframe of the scams I mentioned.
Now become aware of the timeframe of the FBI stuff YOU are talking 
about. Then apply logic. Or math. If you can!"


It turns out that you are here promoting a particular brand of politics.
Or at least attacking what you perceive as a different brand.

And ironically, you display outright hatred against a group of people!
Without being a bit bashful about it.
Nice, Stephen. Great follow-up to your previous gender-bashing, which 
I'll be more than happy to link, if that's what you desire.


I briefly mentioned lawfulness and spoke AGAINST politicizing 
institutions as a way to reduce crime and scams, in the context of and 
relevant to an already off-topic discussion. Too many scams, in turn 
affecting customer service for software.


I don't believe politics should be on this list, anymore than in law 
enforcement. I was speaking AGAINST politics. You are still promoting 
them. As we see here:


> tells me all I need to
> know about which team Curry is cheering for.

Offlist, you explained what you meant by "team" - you wrote:

> I am against TRUMP and his party and all they stand for.
> If you are one of those people, then I can only surmise you
> support the hate and racism and I have ZERO respect for you
> or your smartass opinions.
> Are you really the dude I had lunch with downtown Sebastopol?

So again, if you are able to notice details, look at the time frames in 
my post, and you may finally notice that your rant had no logical basis.


Beyond that, it's very troubling - the only hate I see here is yours.
You used illogical means to place me into a group that you hate.
And then you acted upon and demonstrated that hate toward me.
It's not pretty.

I hope you can grow beyond this tendency to hate! It's a real handicap.
You are obviously a person with a lot of potential. Ditch the hatred.
Logic and math are good friends. Trust them instead of prejudices.

Whether it's gender, Trump, or whatever. Ease off the politics a bit!
Get back into LiveCode and logic. :)

And BTW, I've never even been to Sebastopol. What is that about?

Best way to respond to hate is with love:
I love you, Stephen. You have potential. Hope you get better.
Happy coding

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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Re: OT Friendly customers....

2021-01-28 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode


Stephen:

> Putting down the FBI won’t help anything and makes me think you
> might be partial to the dark forces and fake news. We get enough
> of the hate through other sources and it is unwelcome here.

Ah Stephen, it's good to see that you've moved on from your previous 
practice of gender-bashing! That's rather nice for a change.


Unfortunately, your current direction doesn't look any healthier. First, 
your conflating two very unrelated matters - that's (once again) 
illogical. And logic is healthier and more effective.


Second, you are taking a general position AGAINST a law enforcement 
organization doing what it's supposed to do, i.e. uphold the law. You 
seem to be FOR politicization of law enforcement and government 
corruption. That leads to neglect of actual crimes, including scams. 
There is widespread agreement here that scams are common; the fact that 
crime is commonplace fits well with what I've suggested. My position is 
that law enforcement should NOT be political and SHOULD focus on the 
law. That is both the logical and the moral position to take.


Third, you reveal your own unhealthy obsession with "dark forces and 
fake news" - you feel persecuted and pelted by hate from other sources 
(which you don't simply turn off/avoid?) and along with illogically 
projecting your own hate or the hate you perceive from said other 
sources, you also have a tendency toward the "royal we" where your own 
emotions/conflations are assigned to the list in general.


Interesting, Stephen! Do go on.
You reveal quite a lot about yourself each time you post.
I think popcorn is appropriate. Consider me a fan of your show

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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Re: OT Friendly customers....

2021-01-28 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode


Matthias:

> So in my case it was not scam but just a rude person.

Plenty of those around. Including what comes around.

Manipulative people usually follow 2 tactics.
Either buttering up for a favor, or being rude to apply pressure.
Sometimes both; they will abruptly switch if one fails.

In which case I tend to grab either popcorn or a flamethrower.
Not a huge fan of manipulation.

Doc hawk:

> asking about playing games like “hide the salami”

Careful - from a sandwich point of view,
that could potentially imply the "c" word!

Heather:

> Did somebody say cheese??

Probably those damn portrait photographers again!
Truly evil people - no souls behind the fake smiles.

(A little humor now and then is the best medicine.)

Paul:

> you should not be surprised some people assume SCAM first

My "unfavorites" were the "Windows tech support" and "Google listings" 
phone call scams.


Right now during 2020-2021 my breathing isn't good enough for phone 
conversations anymore, and all calls go to voice mail.


But in previous years those guys would call all the time. They weren't 
following any rules/laws anyway, so you couldn't get off their list by 
traditional methods.


So I tried some unorthodox methods - pranking and wasting their time.

I had one of the "Windows tech support" guys passionately defending 
himself when I asked what his family back in India would think about him 
becoming a criminal. Another couple of times, I played along with their 
spiel, got transferred from the little crook to the big crook, and 
wasted his time too for a while before scolding them and hanging up at 
the crucial moment. They eventually gave up on me just as I was planning 
some bigger pranks.


(Our "FBI" is way too busy being a partisan political tool to handle any 
real crime; no telling how many scams they've allowed to flourish that 
it is their duty and job description to shut down and prevent.)


But the "Google listings" people were unstoppable. They were operating 
in more of a legal/moral gray area, and they must have been raking in 
the $$$. Most persistent I've ever seen/heard. I suppose they are still 
at it; I just haven't been able to answer the phone for ages.


My "unfavorite" email scam is the one where your email account will be 
closed unless you log in to verify it or approve the new security 
measures, etc. A couple of variations on this theme looked very real.


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: Comments for Properties in the Property Inspector?

2021-01-23 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Paul:

> I find myself wishing each custom
> property has a comment field.

DIY approach with another cp:

cProperty = cp itself
iProperty = info

Best wishes,

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Re: How to find the offset of the first character in a string that's not a tab?

2021-01-21 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Always remember who is the computer, and who is the coder!

The computer may need to perform a loop under the hood, but that doesn't 
mean you need to use the "repeat" keyword.


It's often cleaner/faster when you don't. For those who value concise 
code and good performance in LiveCode, avoid unnecessary repeats.


Several other methods - regex as already suggested, or replace, word (if 
you're also skipping spaces), etc


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Curry Kenworthy

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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

2021-01-10 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



JeeJeeStudio:

> One could ask him/her-self the question if it is still ethical to
> buy a reall Mac? Seeing the child-labor in their factories in China
> is still present.

I'm glad you went there! Thank you. I do ask myself, and the answer is 
clear. Whether it's a Mac, or any other product. Same deal.


Not to mention forced organ harvesting (often while conscious), torture, 
gulags, repression (now becoming fashionable), ethnic/racial crackdowns, 
thought/political/religious crackdowns, IP theft, debt traps, 
poison/health risks, safety flaws, hacking and theft, credible plan for 
world domination, worker hazards and living/working conditions, and the 
list could go on for many pages.


I'm typing this on a PC laptop, with a fan blowing on my face, at a 
desk, sitting on a wheelchair, under a light bulb, all of which probably 
have the same origin. Consumer choices are limited, but it does bother 
me. There's a real need for products produced in a context where human 
rights are respected.


(I consider that human decency, not politics. And for the record, I'm 
completely off cheese at the moment; developed allergic reaction to it.)


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

2021-01-09 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Me:

> I'm planning to get an M1 Mac this year

Naturally, right after I post this, Apple makes headlines (again) for 
doing something arbitrary and rather dim.


So an ethical and professional disclaimer:

I don't support self-contradictory and illogical policy,
any more than self-contradictory and illogical UI.

Shallow thinkers (and toddlers of all ages) focus mainly on external 
agreement. It requires some mental development to realize a need for 
intellectual consistency and indeed honesty.


I like the way this principle is clear in the realm of coding. If true 
is also false, logic falls apart. Every logical branch in a script 
evaluates to true or false. True and false must be reliable, not 
arbitrary and capricious. Otherwise code would be unpredictable.


(That's why people who rationalize have trouble writing good code: they 
are speaking a second language, and have trained themselves to imitate 
logic rather than following it! Mental habits matter.)


Apple's biz practices make it difficult to avoid finally replacing my 
2012 Mac, but as most people here probably know, I did not intend my 
statement as an endorsement. Glad Richmond can still work on the G5! :)


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

2021-01-07 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Paul:

> we have several customer who have said
> they are upgrading to M1 laptops

Yes; important to support! I'm looking in that direction too. It'll be 
popular, plus it's what I can afford. Many people in the same boat.


(Backstory: Apple's biz model forces Apple to force us to spend on 
hardware. The mobile herd sticks with Apple, so the dev herd does too, 
so wallets must open and notes must rain down. But not satisfied yet 
with the rain from software tweaks, so now hardware tweaks too.)


I'm planning to get an M1 Mac this year, to get back on the bleeding 
edge for a while. It's time. My old Mac hardware is still perfectly 
good, it was well-built and has zero issues, but finally has been pushed 
into what will soon be an untenable corner by the combo of new OS to 
support and new chip to support. But the older Mac will continue to 
serve for testing and for transition dev if needed.


> a sense of when LC 9.6.2 STABLE may be out?

Could be roughly predicted, maybe, by looking at what they are working 
on. I actually agree with LC's anti release date policy; announcing firm 
dates is just begging for another issue to pop up. But since Apple's biz 
model places so much pressure on devs to keep up, a sense would be good. 
Especially since third-party addons and widgets also have to keep up 
with our ecosystem.


(Another backstory: Don't forget the stable/stable linguistic play; I've 
seen RCs here that were actually more "stable" than the final, because 
glitches, regressions, and extra bugs are sometimes - perhaps often - 
introduced in the very process of fixing bugs. Depending on a stable to 
be stable is a gamble, and depending on the specific features in an app, 
there are times when the RC is more reliable. Nevertheless I really hate 
to publish anything with an RC; only when forced to do so.)


BTW, Paul knows all of this very well. I'm just replying publicly in 
case the backstories will benefit other readers here in the process. :)


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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Re: How to set up a library?

2020-12-31 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Ben:

> What is the best way to structure a library these days?

Flashback to an interesting conversation, when LiveCode Ltd (or RunRev 
Ltd) asked me, "what is a library?"


Not kidding; real question. It's like Newton Ltd asking you, "what is 
gravity?"


That opened my eyes to how libraries have been underappreciated and 
underpromoted at times, even at the very top of the LC community.


So I'm happy to see a thread about libraries. Thanks for starting it.

Best way is most efficient way. What's most efficient depends on your 
current or desired workflow.


> Currently I've got buttons with a script, and a 'mouseup' handler
> to 'insert the script of me into back' in my object library.
> But I don't think that's very modern.

Neither way is extremely modern. But modern shouldn't be the overriding 
criterion for judging good design. Very true that good design is often 
modern, but conflating the two would be missing the point.


Start using, insert script into - both introduced in 1.0, if the 
dictionary serves. There's nothing less modern about insert.


Yet I've always preferred "start using." It suits my own style of 
organizing code (stacks or substacks) and loading it into memory.


Not necessarily better; again depends on YOUR workflow and overall 
organization methods. And where you need the code in the message path.


I've seen great button script inserts. (Although plenty of bad ones. 
Especially when inserting into front, it's a must to make sure the 
inserted code is pretty darn good.)


And I've seen terrible code with start using! It's possible to really do 
it badly. But I'm biased in favor of start using for most work.


> What's the right way to do it? Especially if I want to share it?

So it's kind of a Ford/Chevy or AK/AR question. Used well, either will 
do. Either way, make sure initialization happens only once, don't tread 
on the user and seize control, try to anticipate how different users 
work in LiveCode and structure their scripts, etc. Don't duplicate code. 
And get a testing partner; he or she is a force multiplier.


But if modern IS to be the overriding criterion - peer 
pressure/trends/fads - I'd say cool kids better use git, script-only 
stacks, AND also plenty of behaviors which were introduced much later 
than libraries themselves. All together. And don't forget to make it a 
MVP. Otherwise behind the times, not kewl fewl. :)


Good topic.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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Birthday Shoutout...

2020-12-24 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



... to my friend and colleague Josh. Amazing coder (godlike skills), 
generous with his knowledge, and highly available. Thanks Josh. Enjoy 
your day, you earned it! ;)


Also,

LiveCoders: holiday greetings. May you give and receive the best gifts 
this year. (Not the virulent dirty gift that keeps on giving - i.e. bad 
sample code.) Always KISS, and practice safe syntax every single time.


LC Ltd: nice bug fixes recently! Much appreciated. Cheers, and many 
returns por favor.


Clients: thanks for another wonderful year of fantastic projects. (And 
for understanding my shortness of breath thus avoidance of phone/audio 
conversations after COVID.) Loved the emails, chats, and coding.


Asthmatics: I've found that a low-pressure 0.4 psi air pump beats an 
albuterol inhaler in my own case for urgent breathing difficulty, so now 
I always keep one within reach plus a battery backup.


Video chatters: "Fans" (admirers) of my many fans (air-blowing devices 
and HEPA units) will be pleased to know that I've added two more to the 
collection, a small but powerful in-my-face desktop fan and a roughly 
equivalent wheelchair fan. Yes, my hair really is blowing. Hopefully I 
can demo those soon in '21.


Addon users: I hoped to announce a big year-end addon update and promo, 
but was sick a little too often; still catching up. Work continues. I'll 
try to aim for an Easter/Spring event.


Critics: National Socialism went out of style a while back, but ah well. 
The good guys win in the end!


Code and LC enthusiasts: I'm gradually building up new equipment and 
next-gen code to overcome my own health limitations (a necessity) and in 
the process, hopefully revolutionize several coding areas. I'll share 
this toolset when it's sufficiently mature. Including what I hinted 
about (but did not spell out completely, to avoid copycats) in a recent 
conference presentation.


Cancel culturists: My sincere wishes for an uplifting and very 
traditional Christ-mas and other holy-days. :D


Back to work/lurk

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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Re: Encrypting Stack Breaks Field References

2020-12-22 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Bob:

> The promise of creating standalones and encrypted stacks
> containing code sounds promising, but there are caveats.

Just like anything else - you have to learn the ropes. First time at any 
task can present some challenges. For those in the habit of encrypting 
stacks, it comes more naturally.


Script-only would require the most discipline, so start with UI+script 
projects and work your way up from there.


(Bug-reporting as you go, if necessary. The history of LC protection, 
like LC everything else, has not been without hiccups along the way.)


Also

No idea if it happened in this particular case, but I see plenty of 
similar problems people have due to the copy/paste LC coding culture.


By which I mean: How do I do X in LC? Ah, here's some code - presto!

The problem SEEMS solved. Learning SEEMS to have happened.

The perfect Acme solution. Then a different context comes along, maybe a 
different OS, or an encrypted stack and - wham - coyote hits a wall. 
Road runner zooms away.


People don't realize (and someone may pipe up and argue against) the 
fact that just because code works once, in one context, doesn't mean 
it's good code that should be liberally pasted. Or promoted as sample 
code. There is so much sample code out there, but the quality really 
varies. Bad sample code can hurt people.


So to all coders in general and Livecoders in particular - be careful 
what you paste. Have realistic expectations and a cautious approach. 
Take the time to understand the code you're working with and the LC 
keywords involved.


Good code has some extra qualities, such as: robust, efficient, modular, 
easy to maintain, and widely applicable. Bonus for heavily tested.


Likewise, copy/paste coding does not result in the same level of coding 
proficiency as fluency to think and write in the LC language. You have 
to exercise your LC-cep just like any other muscle.


(Here I would anticipate a smart aleck asking why don't I post all the 
perfect samples; there is always some pushback against both common sense 
and less-frequent posters on this list. But as usual, I've already 
answered that question before it was asked. Sorry coyote. Beep beep.)


Hope everyone is doing well!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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Re: Will Browser widget ever work on Linux?

2020-12-09 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Mark:

> It's actually OSX where CEF usage was
> dropped, not Windows.

Yep, it actually feels great to be a Windows-first LiveCoder. 
Ironically, things "just work." In fact I'm doing a Windows app right 
now, using - guess what - the Browser widget. Works a treat.


It's hard to overstate how important embedded Browser support is. Along 
with, of course, the field object, which can do much more than most 
people realize. (The cliques and promoters/repeaters in this LC 
community always breathlessly push certain resources, at the expense of 
awareness about others.) Like the field, embedded Browser is a way to 
deliver and display so many different kinds of content that it should be 
considered a foundational part of LC. Can't afford to let it slip.


And the Browser needs to work fairly seamlessly cross-platform, to a 
reasonable extent. That's why we're all here, right?


About Windows: Once upon a time I was a big Mac guy and Mac-first 
shareware author. I was all about Mac...until Apple made some dumb and 
hypocritical UI decisions, contradicting their own doctrine repeatedly 
and destructively. They took a crowbar to the beloved Mac OS and made it 
much less convenient and satisfying to use.


I never jumped ship onto the Linux rowboat. Nice to have that platform - 
and by all means it should be supported. I'm still an enthusiastic 
Mac-second developer, and I welcome Linux work on occasion, but I 
adopted Windows as my primary OS since their UI had some advantages. To 
this day I'm very happy to be firmly cross-platform and proudly 
Windows-first.


Now that I have an SSD, the LC script editor troubles are a thing of the 
past too. LC simply made the mistake of designing broadly-used software 
on high-end hardware, so it wasn't a great design, especially for the 
masses. (Strange because that's usually a beginner's mistake.) Remember 
how the newly open-source LC was going to open up the world of coding to 
the third-world masses? Nope, not gonna happen, not with that kind of 
disk usage! I always design on budget hardware, so that at least the 
middle class can use the end product too.


But now SSD has become the standard for new budget hardware, so very 
soon that will be moot - once again LC runs just fine with modern 
antivirus and Windows 10. (Talking about a real Windows computer - hi 
Richmond - and not a partition or virtualized system. Real PC, real Mac 
is the way to go.) So for users stuck on "the dark side" of Mac or Linux 
- the grass really is greener over here at the moment. Fingers crossed.


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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Re: Some sad news

2020-12-05 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Indeed sad news - Hermann was a competent LC coder and contributor. I 
enjoyed his comments.


Glad to hear HTML5 support is improving; it's time. Good potential.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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Re: text manipulation with Chinese characters (unicode): guide?

2020-09-09 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode


Livecode 中文支持非常好。 您可以复制和粘贴。

อย่างไรก็ตามการตัดข้อความของ Livecode สำหรับภาษาไทยนั้นไม่ดีนัก 
มันทำให้ตัวละครแตก

:)

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Re: Scroll a field to a specified line number

2020-08-17 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Michael:

> set the vScroll of fld 1 to (60 * the effective textHeight of fld 1)

> Clicking the button takes me to line 65, and when I set the
> list behaviour to true the button scrolls me to line 69

Bernd:

> turn "fixedLineHeight" on for the field

And subtract a line.

Because when scroll is 0, we already see line 1.

To reach line 60, we don't need to add 60 to 1.

1 + 59 = 60.

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Re: Object naming

2020-07-28 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Alex:

> Using unambiguous short names prevents behaviour scripts
> that references child controls completely

Sure about that? (Option A)

> Inside A, there is a rect called "R" and also a group called "B"
> inside B there is a rect called "R"

Or put the "direct" R in a subgroup also. (Option B)
A-B-R vs A-C-R.

Richard:

> One Buffalo Bill. And one Biffalo Buff.

I like that one.

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Re: Object naming

2020-07-27 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Richard:

> The simplest is to use unambiguous names

+1!

Alex:

> Is there an unambiguous name in this case ?

Use unambiguous SHORT names!

Alex:

> (i.e. A-R, not A-B-R)

+1!

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Re: Functions running in IDE, but not running in standalone

2020-07-26 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Bruce:

> comment-out all the instances where I am using a libURL command
> or function, save as a standalone, and and see what happens.

Now you need to follow through on your diagnosis. It will not be 
efficient to quickly abandon a sound diagnosis and search for something 
else. People do that too often. Trust logic! Trust math. Stick with it.


The "can't find handler" error is very specific. It doesn't allow us 
infinite freedom to interpret the cause. Assuming the error message 
itself is correct, that leaves only a few possible direct causes: the 
(appropriate) Internet Library isn't loaded, handler isn't in the 
message path, handler name misspelling, etc.


So keep looking at the AREA of inclusions AND related issues - you have 
NOT ruled those out yet! It's not about trying one specific possibility 
in that area, and then giving up on the area. It's about knowing that 
your problem is almost certainly in that area, so you focus your hunt in 
that area to efficiently find the culprit.


Since your product is over 10 years old, make sure your mainstack 
doesn't have any old versions of Internet library accidentally embedded, 
for example. Or back to the inclusions. Something that prevents a good 
app build, or a matter of timing before everything is loaded.


Since Matthias was able to get the same error message, you should also 
try a new sample stack with libURLSetSSLVerification, like he did. That 
would remove a lot of other variables for a clean test building with 
your IDE.


And as he suggested, you should open a support ticket, if you haven't.

There have been some changes to the libraries over the years that can 
cause problems, so checking your libURL calls would be a good idea if 
that's where the evidence pointed. Still not a bad idea to double-check 
the calls. LC error reporting is not 100% accurate, and I've seen weird 
things happen.


But it's not where the evidence points. I would place my bet on the 
"inclusions and related" area; it's the likely winner with overwhelming 
odds. Since you have the "can't find handler" error message (if that's 
still the error you have) and since there's the IDE vs standalone 
evidence, that's a lot of evidence.


So it is the most likely road to lead to a solution. And that's where 
you should focus more of your efforts, if you want to solve this 
quickly. You haven't ruled it out; you've only started on it. Follow 
through! Unless you can PROVE at runtime that Internet Library is loaded 
in your standalone and that libURLSetSSLVerification is in the message 
path of the calling handler, that's still your problem. :)


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Functions running in IDE, but not running in standalone

2020-07-19 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode


Bruce:

> However, when I saved the stack as a standalone
> the Abstract Report did not run.

> Abstract Report which takes a list of US patent numbers
> and downloads basic information about each

> I tried adding some “answer” alerts to try to find the bottleneck.

You are using a logical method so far to narrow down the problem. That's 
good. But now you just have to keep going, and FOLLOW THROUGH. Don't 
stop half way. Keep narrowing it down and start profiling your bug.


If Livecode encounters a runtime error that is not handled, it will stop 
executing the script. When it does that, LC sends a message with the 
error dialog information.


In the IDE, you usually (but not always) see a helpful dialog or script 
debug when hitting an error. But in a standalone, you have several 
options too - you can choose to include error reporting, you can handle 
the message yourself, or you can use the Remote Debugger as mentioned, 
which often (but again, not always) helps.


Using answer (or a log file) is another valid option (especially for the 
"not always" cases where LC debugging falls short!) but use it 
correctly. Make sure you've really narrowed it down to the offending 
line; don't make too many assumptions about which is the offending line 
of code without proving it.


The error reporting might give you the line number and error cause. Or 
you can add another answer to verify your best candidate.


Standalone versus IDE problems often boil down to a few areas: file 
locations, standalone settings and inclusions, folder permissions, app 
permissions, and so on. Sometimes it's the user's fault, other times an 
LC bug/feature/glitch.


> using Livecode 7.1.4, all of the “answer” alerts came back
> and the Abstract Report worked fine!

Given that you're downloading things, I would check inclusions and 
tsNet, plus your file/folder locations. Always try to keep the IDE and 
standalone code/experience as close to each other as possible, to 
minimize headaches!


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/


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Re: sorting lines by date

2020-07-11 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode


Like everything field and text related, this thread caught my eye! :)

One of my favorite areas of LiveCode, and also one of the areas I have 
to actively keep an eye on since I rely on it a lot.


Here's an observation that might help in one way or another

David:

> http://adomain/27/06/2016 8:10

> set itemdel to tab
> sort lines of field "import" datetime by the last item of each

> the order above is generated.
> I can’t see any meaningful ordering of the lines.

I was curious and copied your content into a field where I changed the 
date format of the dates, like so:


http://adomain/ 06/27/2016 8:10
http://adomain/ 11/17/2013 22:18

And for me, over here on this side of the ocean (cue Trump rally: USA! 
USA!) that both looks good, and works well, using your unmodified code. 
The lines without a date also stacked up at the top, as you predicted, 
and as I know to be the normal LC sort behavior.


I realize you need the British format, but again out of curiosity and to 
make sure everything LC datewise is working properly, you might try your 
sort again, with a few lines of your content and that modification.


(There is also a useSystemDate keyword that you could test.)

Regardless, be assured that ABSOLUTELY it is possible to have datetime 
sorts working well in fields or text with tabbed columns. Have no doubts 
or fears in that regard. I very recently delivered a client project, 
this year, with that feature.


The only question is efficiency. It would be better and faster to get 
the datetime sort working directly with your content.


But if not, you can also sort with a custom function, and then the sky 
is the limit! LC sort really is powerful and flexible.


But I would like to know the outcome, so when this is resolved, thanks 
in advance for posting again to let us know what worked!


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: FieldTrip (WAS: fixed textheight affects scrolling?)

2020-07-11 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Stephen:

> Girls! Time to take this spat off list, please.

Ah good, belittling a gender! That helps. Otherwise agreed; I don't want 
to see this either.


But as this was a very public attack on a very LC product, and strayed 
from the facts, that didn't leave me much choice. Public inaccuracies 
require public corrections.


Klaus:

> One BETA was delivered!

As you say: delivered. But I believe it was two betas, not one.

The denigration of "beta" is a marketing school of thought, nothing more 
or less. I used to keep all of my products in beta for YEARS (since I 
belonged to another school of thought, with very high emphasis on 
quality) until being forced out of it by the former school of thought 
being officially adopted here.


> Interesting, so it is LCs fault in the end.

Facts, not fault. Very different! Not everyone is interested in facts, 
but that doesn't erase them or make them less important/relevant.


FT was designed for LiveCode during the time of LC 5/6, if I recall 
correctly. It was also designed within the budget we funded. That 
product was coded and delivered. Klaus received what he paid for. He 
hasn't received an update yet; nor has he paid for one. That doesn't 
mean I don't WANT an update, and I certainly didn't want LC 7 to be 
incompatible with this or any other product. But of course the product 
was delivered as paid.


As I said:

> LC 7 stopped working with some existing code, and not the other
> way around. Technically 7 was supposed to work with the existing
> code, and the team was working through BC issues,
> but ah well. My flagship products were more fortunate
> (with a lot of help from myself in testing and reporting issues)
> but LC 7 was released before that could happen for FT.

So technically this should have been part of the LC 7 compatibility 
effort, that is undeniable fact, but LC 7 was released before it could 
happen. That didn't help. My products were originally budgeted for 
efficient building on a fairly firm foundation, not immediate and 
frequent rewrites.


The huge LC 7 and 8 changes, and the many LC bugs introduced during that 
period, required substantial changes and LC bug-hunting for many or most 
LC projects which contain substantial code. That was originally 
unplanned and unbudgeted, and is very much ongoing. As I've said before, 
I can't really complain; I've made a large part of my living for many 
years from LC 7-9 bugs and changes!


But it did hurt FT, since FT was unlucky enough to miss out on the 
official 7 compatibility efforts, and also could not benefit from my own 
first efforts. My first attention had to go to the flagship products. 
That doesn't make me happy either, but it is the reality. There simply 
was no other choice.


Whereas many other LC projects have simply fallen by the wayside since 
LC 7, I'm proud that FT is still very much on my list!


But again:

> FT will be revived and updated; looking forward to it very much.
> But that will be AFTER the other flagship addons are updated.
> Not before. Harassment won't change that.
> Nor will falsehoods or bad behavior.
> (Hint: currently WordReport is first in line!)

Client projects ALWAYS come first, no matter what.
Then the flagship products. This is the priority I will follow.

Klaus:

> I really start to feel sorry for you.

Regarding my own handicap, it's simply another fact that unfortunately 
has become somewhat relevant in this case. Nothing more or less.


FT was planned and budgeted for an efficient development process, not 
immediate and frequent rewrites.


I've always loved efficiency and the real benefits and cost savings it 
brings to software development. Always a hardcore fan. But since being 
diagnosed with a progressive neuromuscular disease, efficiency is my 
lifeline! I no longer have the option of doing things another way.


I'm proud to be one of the top LiveCode developers and consultants, 
achieving more than most despite my handicap! And I have some incredible 
strengths, so I'm not complaining. I could easily feel sorry for others. 
I have some "super powers" when it comes to code. I'm very powerful in 
that regard and I thank God for my many blessings, which incidentally 
include LiveCode itself, and my wonderful clients!


But when it comes to time and energy, I just don't have the option of 
being inefficient. Nor do I have "free time" in the sense that most 
people do. I can't just arbitrarily decide to work extra whenever I feel 
like it; my body will no longer let me. Work has to be planned and 
prioritized. And I get things done - achieving a lot of work for my 
clients each year, and also making progress toward updates on my 
flagship addons!


But unfortunately FT has had to wait, for a number of years, as Klaus 
has emphasized. Nevertheless it's coming, in its turn. If I have to 
write big emails to correct inaccurate statements, or deal with 
harassment, it truly does take significant time away from work and slow 
things down. I 

Re: fixed textheight affects scrolling?

2020-07-10 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Klaus:

> oh, I really had no idea that setting the hilitedline will also
> scroll that line into view!? 8-)
> That makes my custom scrolling stuff completely obsolete.

Yep, LC does auto-scroll when you set hilitedline! Very handy.

I would say "redundant" in this case, rather than obsolete. There is 
still value in being able to scroll a field with similar calculations.


For example, someone might want to have the hilited line in the vertical 
center of the field, or always at the top when possible. Just a matter 
of getting the calcs right. Not very difficult. But it does require a 
valid test, or valid setup, without conflating the two actions.


> any news about "FieldTrip"? This is not funny anymore.
> I turned 64 last month and I would really like to get
> something for my money before I die!

Klaus, let me say that your "National Socialist" approach to harassing 
me, every single chance you get, is also not funny anymore!


Nor is giving people the FALSE and fake impression that you did not get 
a product for your money. I resent that slur, along with your continued 
harassment and mean-spirited, inaccurate disinformation campaign. It is 
as fundamentally flawed as your field test code. Maybe a pattern?


FT was delivered. You got the LC 6 product you paid for. LC pulled out 
the rug shortly after; LC 7 stopped working with some existing code, and 
not the other way around. Technically 7 was supposed to work with the 
existing code, and the team was working through BC issues, but ah well. 
My flagship products were more fortunate (with a lot of help from myself 
in testing and reporting issues) but LC 7 was released before that could 
happen for FT.


Since then, WordLib and WordReport have remained higher priorities. FT 
will be revived and updated; looking forward to it very much. But that 
will be AFTER the other flagship addons are updated. Not before. 
Harassment won't change that. Nor will falsehoods or bad behavior.


(Hint: currently WordReport is first in line!)

I cleared up your little scrolling field mystery for you, and in return, 
this is how you act?! Now, let's see how logical you can be, Klaus. Take 
a good look at the length of this message. I'm keeping it as short as 
possible, but obviously it still takes some time to carefully answer 
your careless slur.


That does NOT speed up anything, including FT. But it does waste 
valuable time and slow things down. It's not furthering the outcome you 
seek. It also destroys goodwill and friendship, and it spreads 
falsehood. On top of that I'm handicapped and I don't have free time to 
waste. All bad results of these little slurs about FT and myself. I 
would appreciate polite inquiries, or reminders, but this is way out of 
line. Every time I post here, you do this. You keep calling for my 
attention, and you got it.


So, here's what I'll do. If you keep up this "National Socialist" style 
of harassment, I'll just pay a little more attention to your posts and 
correct more of the inaccurate statements that you make about LC code 
and technologies. I will also refer back to this post to save time, so 
that my corrections are as efficient as your falsehoods.


I've had to make "Klaus corrections" about other LC matters (regular LC 
how-to and facts/tips, not about FT) on a regular basis over the years, 
usually very quietly off-list! But I'll be happy to make more public 
corrections, more often, if needed. Or if you lay off the harassment, 
then as a natural result (math, time) everything will happen a little 
faster, including FT. The choice is yours. Thanks Klaus! Happy 64th 
birthday.


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: drag drop on a tab field

2020-07-10 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode


Bob:

> If I drag drop on a tab field TAB, is there a way to tell which
> tab I dropped on? Probably not but it’s worth a shot.

Probably so...

... if we can define "tab field" and "tab field TAB"?

(I think I know what you're aiming for, but I'd rather be sure.)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: fixed textheight affects scrolling?

2020-07-10 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Klaus:


set the scroll of fld "fonts" to tLine*tTH + the height of fld "fonts"
set the hilitedlines of fld "fonts" to tLine


The test is invalid; the 2nd quoted line overrides the 1st.

Therefore you don't see the results of your scrolling code.

To debug your scroll calc, first comment out the set hilitedlines.

Easy testing: use an ask, input either line # or font name.

(To test hilite, either forget about scroll calc, or do it AFTER.)

Watch out about adding versus subtracting field height. Why add?

No more mysteries. Or at least fewer. :)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: slow loading & navigation to card containing large field

2020-07-01 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



I would use binfile to a variable, rather than a custom prop.

I've seen LC 9 fields become unusable after reaching a certain # of 
chars. I would trust LC 9 fields with 8 million chars - maybe not 80.


If users have a need to see what's going on, intentionally show them 
what they need to see. Not the raw data - when it's this big.


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
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LiveCode Training and Consulting
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What if Windows users rarely printed things?

2020-06-26 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



What if Windows users rarely printed things?

That hypothetical alternative world/dimension almost looks like part of 
LiveCode's operating paradigm!


Windows print bugs don't seem to get much attention.

For example, LC cannot print a field that has vGrid turned on.

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21894

(Direct to PDF works, but not every client wants to go that route.)

Or take this one (it may be two) - tiny checkboxes printed:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16958

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21000

Lots of printer bugs. They tend to stick around.

So I just want to point out, that in the real world:

Windows users frequently print things.

And in USA, Windows is very common for SMALL businesses. With printers.

That's a whole market segment that LC could grow in - if some of the 
bugs are fixed.


(There's a way to bring in some of that extra money LC Ltd needs 
post-COVID! Fix a few bugs, grow a more diverse user base.)


Thanks.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Times ARE changing

2020-06-08 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Times are hardly changing at all in substance, actually - this is 
nothing but a superficial change of costumes in society's grand parade 
of exquisite nonsense. Always a great pretense of love, always plenty of 
real hate and prejudice. The thugs and their victims do change in every 
Act of society's Play, fitting the fashions of the day, but either way 
it's still innocent people getting hurt.


For devotees of virtue signaling, let's cut to the chase - time to 
change your OWN names too! Lest Tom or Jane offend the perpetually 
triggered, not to mention the horror of David, Nancy, Joshua, or Billy 
with all the cultural skeletons that imaginative minds could attach to 
them. (I could, easily.) Let's be thorough and not stop half-way with 
the cultural lobotomy.


For those who love fake news and fictitious history, here's a true fact 
to completely ruin the day: I grew up deep in the real South (not the TV 
or novel versions) and heard a number of derogatory racial terms for all 
races including my own, but NEVER once Sambo. At least not by real live 
English speakers in that region - again, books and TV aside. The point 
of real derogatory terms would be to sound nasty and hurtful, and in 
most places where I've been, Sambo just wouldn't cut it. Sorry. Maybe it 
could have been a problem up in the North or out in California (I have 
no idea) but certainly not in the South where I was.


For book burners and those who love censorship, here's the ultimate 
downer: the glory of Gutenberg, still going strong!


http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/17824

Once enough people finally tire of pretense and corruption and control, 
the smart and honest people of every background can and will finally get 
on with the REAL business of a non-prejudiced society to benefit real 
people. And it won't be anything like the media/mob fantasy.


Speaking of cheese - even "Cheddar is better" or "I only own Provolone" 
would seem amazingly intellectual and relevant when compared to 
mind-numbing trends like this! But I dare say LiveCode topics would be 
even MORE relevant than either Sambo or the wonders of cheese! Not to 
mention talented/hilarious Vikings and glorious, marvelous sp*m


Always in love, but always with some intelligence too,

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: ADA Compliency

2020-05-30 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode


Peter:

> I’m currently working on adding accessibility to my text and
> media-heavy music application. In trying to find actual information
> about doing this in a way that is both “compliant” and also good UI—
> I find very little data online.

Nice project! For the standards side of it, I would keep the DOJ 
Software Accessibility Checklist handy:


https://www.justice.gov/crt/software-accessibility-checklist

(It's good, but not quite up-to-date to the minute - mentions Win95 :D
You could also use the DOE version and the WCAG as references.)

> making LiveCode compatible with screen readers (software that
> navigates other software by key commands) is out of the question
> for me

This would be a GREAT feature for LC Ltd to implement. As important as 
accessibility is nowadays, it should be quite high on the feature 
priority list! Kudos to you and Dan for bringing it up.


And who knows, maybe some funding or tax break would be available for LC 
or others. (Also, good to know for we the companies that use LC.) On the 
USA side, here's a tax break, not huge but it might help someone:




> so I have to come up with my own design of a navigation by keyboard
> control with a voice prompts system along with text to speech.

Excellent! That has a lot of potential.

> doing this in a way that is both “compliant” and also good UI

I consider the two largely separate, and almost never the twain

Unfortunately, legal standards are usually big clumsy affairs, 
heavy-handed on enforcement and lightweight on human-readable 
guidelines/advice. Still they can be good, and the checklist is actually 
pretty great! But for that half it's doing things the way of government. 
"Render into Caesar" (If I can say that here. Not quoting the fuller 
context, LOL. Pretty meaningful historical statement, though.)


> How do I get on the right track with this without “hiring a
> consultant” or interviewing and testing with numbers of people
> with various disabilities, including physical mobility?

For the UI half, it can be your own opportunity to shine and do it 
better, or you could stick closer to existing advice which as you say is 
mostly web-based, but there are a small sprinkling of software pages.


You know me - I would tend to go with the "opportunity to shine" route, 
my own choices, after meeting the legal list. But my personal and 
professional experience is mostly with a range of physical impairments 
rather than sight issues. As I project, I'd love it (hits close to home) 
and do the research and setup needed. As a casual question I'll give it 
a shot, off top of head.


I like big and beautiful buttons for the main features, a very readable 
font size, all buttons big enough (think iOS mobile size guidelines for 
touch, but applied consistently rather than the Apple thee-not-me way) 
and minimal user actions per task, among other things. Much of that is 
the physical again, but some would carry over to the visually impaired.


Navigating your voiced keyboard control is a big thing - make it 
super-easy and elegant! If you have those, and what's possible from the 
gov checklist, it looks great to me.


Also keys can make people tired - typing has made me super tired at 
times, last year especially. (Oddly I seemed to wind up better on typing 
after COVID, but worse in other areas especially breath.) The fewer user 
actions to each particular goal, the better. I could imagine that for 
unsighted people with good strong lungs, speech recognition might be 
even better, so I would want to tie that in too, at least on Mac.


Testing is crucial, and if you can't find free or affordable 
under-sighted testers (there may be some!) you could use a few tricks. 
Try it with eyes shut - but of course you have the developer 
bias/habits/memory yourself, so you could get a sighted person such as 
family or online friend to test that way. There would also ways to 
simulate a few types and degrees of vision impairment while testing, 
although the real thing is better. Compliance should be theoretically a 
best-effort reasonable affair, and a tiny company doesn't have the same 
resources as MS/Google/Apple. Theoretically, that is. The usual caveats.


> So if the big tech companies with their resources have mixed results,
> how well can small guys expect to do?

The big guys unfortunately are working with their own set of handicaps, 
much of it self-imposed. We're just the opposite. Empty pockets, open 
minds! Life is funny that way. So we have a chance too. Great project, 
best of luck and I hope it achieves all your goals very affordably. I 
also hope LC gets some accessibility hooks to benefit all users.


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/


Re: ADA Compliency

2020-05-29 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Alex:

> You are quoting yourself without adequate context.

Ah yes, I'm trying to keep what I said a big secret, right? :)

Quite the reverse - I was drawing attention to my original post, which 
is readily available in its entirety, which is typically what I suggest.


> The fuller version of what you said was [...]

No, that's not quite the fuller version. Your quote still omits the most 
important context of all, which could easily mislead a hapless reader. 
That is, the context of its topic and main thrust, which you skirt.


My post was NOT primarily about my trouble with the mouse, or rather 
with Mac UI. It was about good and bad UI design and how these choices 
can have bigger consequences, plus the need to recognize a range of 
ability. Otherwise ADA or other compliance will fall short for many.


My hands/mouse versus Mac OS X UI was an EXAMPLE in that context. I use 
that example from time to time (this was not the first mention) because 
it had a fairly big impact on my life.


Luckily there was an alternative OS readily available to solve the 
problem, and - again, to a reasonable extent - that DID ALREADY SOLVE 
the problem. As I indicated in my first post, and emphasized in my 2nd.


That was more of a UI than a hardware problem, in my case, and in the 
very important "fuller context" of my post.


> So I think your rather condescending attempted put-down was wrong.

Attempted put-down? Wow, this is going way off-course and into the realm 
of fantasy. No put-downs yet of individuals here, by my count! Simply 
laying that particular line of questioning to rest for the 2nd time 
(also by my count; this makes 3) and steering back to my point:


Ability is not all-or-nothing. We need to look at the middle too.
Otherwise even "compliance" will still fall short for many.
Good UI can help many people function better and bad UI can hinder them.

> my wife has a neurological condition that is probably on the
> same scale as yours

Sorry to hear that - feel free to send me her condition's name off-list 
if you wish.


> A few years ago, HP had many laptops with a trackpad
> *and* two buttons below it

I had one of those too! Liked the laptop, but using the trackpad that 
way was also no bueno for me. I think I actually started enabling the 
touch-click on those to avoid using the hardware buttons.


To steer back to my point again, and somewhat agreeing with you, that HP 
laptop was an example of good design for different abilities and 
situations. It had the trackpad (to use with hard buttons or software 
clicks) but of course also the ability to plug in a wide variety of mice 
and other pointers.


The same holds true with software UI. Don't ditch a great and 
"scientific" feature (Apple's words, or close to it, from memory) for a 
mere lickable trend. Or if you do, at least provide some options for 
users that prefer the scientific. Could we say...be user friendly? Think 
different? ;) But again, it's not just Apple.


(Man, the "compliency" spelling in the subject line - not mine - is 
starting to make me wince after sending out 3 messages that way. But I 
don't want to change it and break the threading. So here it goes)


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: ADA Compliency

2020-05-29 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Rick, I thanked you for your concern. I'll thank you once again. Your 
questions were just a little bit off target, just like some of my 
clicks; but that's OK. I heard you, and I responded to your actual 
points. Here are my points again:


Ability is not all-or-nothing. We need to look at the middle too.
Good UI can help many people function better and bad UI can hinder them.

For every person missing a hand or completely paralyzed, there's someone 
else in-between. Having body parts, and able to move them, able to see, 
but with real legally and medically recognized moderate to severe 
limitations in mobility, agility and so on.


Folks love the extreme examples at the ends, just like those you 
mentioned, and I'm so glad there are more solutions these days. BTW eye 
tracking is another good tech. I've worked on adaptive tech. But looking 
at the very ends doesn't erase the full range of handicaps.


With my hands and arms I couldn't open a food package without scissors 
to save my life. I have many limits. But luckily I can use mouse and 
keyboard proficiently usually, with just a few caveats like what I 
mentioned, and a gradual progression of the impairments.


I'm in wheelchair 95% of waking time (versus 90% last year) but that's 
OK with a computer; tech is wonderful! Energy has become the bigger 
problem, and when you have serious limitations you spend a lot of that 
energy doing the silly mundane things like trips to the bathroom, or 
meals, and having to really rest after those. Today had another feature 
- my throat muscles decided to take the day off, so I couldn't swallow 
much at all. Had to skip a meal and drink less! But as you see, I could 
still type well today, so I consider it a good day.


People greatly benefit from special adaptive tech. I'm an enthusiast 
there too. But often the real adaptive tech is going overboard for 
people with moderate ability; not efficient in that case. I require 
adaptive equipment for mobility, but use standard computer laptop with 
mouse. Many people with impairments can benefit from standard tech (BTW 
that means the bigger audience, and more money that you mentioned) with 
SMART DESIGN. That's what I keep saying, and I'm not sure you noticed 
it. It's not theory or opinion, but real life experience.


Trends and schools of thought come and go, but that reality is going 
nowhere. Until of course robotics and medical advances erase the 
handicaps themselves. But even then - good UI will still matter. And 
best of all it's a twofer; it helps the sound as well as the lame. :)


Sometimes just a matter of avoiding really lousy/stupid design choices. 
It's literally that simple. Sometimes the more accessible product is 
already there, and the company spends money to make it much worse! I 
gave two real-world examples that impacted me, one for UI and one for a 
physical product. I could give others. It's common, easily avoidable.


But that takes certain resources that sometimes no amount of money can 
buy when a company is locked into what I consider a self-imposed 
mentally handicapped mindset. Similar to what Dilbert always covered so 
well. Good software and OS require a smart approach and sensible 
decisions for UI. Without that, even with ADA compliance, many impaired 
users will remain poorly served! (And normal users too, although less 
impacted.) That is the point. It doesn't take a fortune, because the 
money is being spent either way. The difference is making good choices, 
which are surprisingly rare! Hopefully that'll change soon.


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: ADA Compliency

2020-05-29 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Rick:

> I have a couple of questions for you.

Thanks Rick! I do appreciate the concern. But in my post, your questions 
were already either answered or otherwise addressed before you asked. I 
anticipated them; I know what makes people tick! So I'll "re-answer" 
partly by quoting myself.


But when certain memes are burned so deep into community psyche that 
answers bounce right off, I feel like we're heading back toward the old 
failed group think. The same old patronizing ideas and faulty 
assumptions, while actually ignoring both the main point and the details 
of what I posted about UI.


Somehow we have to SHOUT louder than those old memes to get through!

> Is a trackpad or a trackball any better of an experience for you?

Heck no! Emphatically no. Much, much worse. Much more difficult. That's 
why I emphasized my mouse use already, to avoid precisely this type of 
inevitable question. Just be aware that the old oh handicap people 
should use blah blah mindset - the memes are sometimes true, but more 
often not.


Mouse = good. For handicap man too!
Trashing a UI to replace scientific arrangement with lickable = bad.

I said: "I'm very comfortable using the mouse if set up correctly. I 
switched to Windows for my main work, and that helped save energy and 
improve accuracy."


Thus, problem mostly solved on my end, at least when using apps and web 
sites with non-crappy UI. Pretty easy solution. Handicap man happy.


But problem not solved on Apple's end. Handicap man sad for Apple!
It really was a lousy move, destroying a once superior interface.

> Have you tried using the mac OS voice commands or controls?

Strike two! Think carefully about the implications of what I said: "I 
can only say a few words without getting out of breath."


For people with good breathing, this is a very good thing for typing or 
for no-hands computer use. But imagining it would be more efficient than 
mouse for the ability levels I described - and imagining I'm suffering 
here because I just haven't tried trackpad or voice recognition (I've 
built Mac apps with voice recognition) - no way. Totally unrealistic!


Now, a mental interface might be good, that's another story. Some 
interest there, for the future. But I'm not anywhere near ready for that 
yet. Privacy concerns etc, plus very importantly - use it or lose it. 
Without that exercise, the fingers are toast, and I need those guys. 
Maybe when I'm 80. Maybe I'll design it myself now and use it then.


> Apple has the money and resources to do it.

No, probably they don't. They can't. They don't have the brains (or the 
paradigm) to allow them to do it, not anymore. Not for any amount of 
money; mental assets are the most crucial. It's sad. I was a huge fan.


But enough about Apple - as I said, this is a pretty-much universal 
problem. Only using them as a small example of the problems:


- Binary thinking about physical abilities
- Trotting out the same faulty memes and assumptions
- Placing form above function, subjective over objective
- Ignoring handicapped voices that don't fit the mold
- Why being "compliant" will still fail many users

Ignoring the reality that abilities vary - and not even just a range 
along one continuum, but a real mixture of strengths and weaknesses in 
many mental and physical areas. I actually feel like a superman in some 
areas. I bring heavy strengths to the table, as my clients know.


Here's one more attempt to break through the group think. Really THINK 
HARD about this, and don't let it automatically bounce off, try to allow 
it into your mind. You may have to adjust some old assumptions, and if 
so that's good:


In certain ways, I might use a mouse more skillfully than you. It's 
possible; I'm pretty good, and I'm one heck of an adept user. At 
computer 16+ hours a day for both work and rest; I rely on it a LOT for 
all things, since I can't go out and about. In other ways I'm definitely 
worse than you, guaranteed. Some misclicks and doubles. Neurology.


But it's NOT so simple - and in fact so backwards - as oh, he's 
handicapped, he shouldn't use a mouse. (Even though he just said he does 
it well; he's handicapped, so we'll just ignore most of what he says.)


No, no, no, NO! Quite the opposite. This is missing the point, tossing 
most of the actual content, and adopting assumptions that are exactly 
opposite of the real situation. I MUST have a good ergonomic full-sized 
mouse or I can't use the computer at all. I have several backup mice in 
storage for instant swap. With a track pad I'm exhausted in a few 
minutes. Of course I've tried it! That is the reality.


If these popular but faulty memes are so appealing that actual reality 
must be discarded to uphold them, that's sad too. Don't let reality 
bounce off. If we are open to improving our knowledge and perceptions, 
life can improve so much, and progress can happen much faster!


BTW, this mouse versus window UI issue dates way back, to the time of OS 
X 

Re: ADA Compliency

2020-05-29 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Assistive tech is a wonderful thing, and yet even when that "compliancy" 
is achieved, the effort is doomed to fall short of real-world needs for 
many people.


That's because the "compliancy" designers tend to think in 
all-or-nothing ideals - and the subset of opinions and studies popular 
in their social/professional cliques - not addressing the reality of 
actual ability ranges in the population. Meanwhile standard UI designers 
tend to throw out some really good ideas. Sometimes people are involved 
in great works, yet still CLUELESS about things that would help a lot of 
real people.


For example I have a neurological/muscular disease that impairs fine 
movement and deforms the hand shape and ability a bit. My hands now look 
like ghost of Christmas past or grim reaper hands. In the past they 
looked almost normal but the movement was already impaired. You don't 
want these hands. I drop things a lot.


Both the nerves and muscles are damaged. That affects using the mouse - 
not a huge effect, but I click a few pixels off-target sometimes. 
Especially since I also have to keep the mouse on a fairly responsive 
movement setting to avoid tiring my arm throughout the day. I'm very 
comfortable using the mouse if set up correctly.


So the old Mac OS had the window Close box on the OPPOSITE side as the 
resize and minimize. That reduced by a large percentage the number of 
misclicks that I had with any important consequences. That was a good 
feature based on actual research and/or logical thinking. It helped me 
achieve more and mess up less.


But Mac OS X threw that and other good things right out the window, in 
favor of "lickable" colored circles side by side. Just like Windows, but 
crammed together into a smaller area that was even more prone to 
misclicks. So Mac was no longer a better interface for me. I switched to 
Windows for my main work, and that helped save energy and improve 
accuracy. That's just one example of many.


And when it came to mobile, Apple made a giant list of HIGs to enforce 
on all software - except for their own software, of course. They broke 
their own rules when they felt like it, and their mobile UI is harder 
for me to use as a result.


Their rules are arbitrary with selective enforcement. And their rules 
(both mobile and desktop) actually sometimes IMPEDE rather than promote 
making UI designs to help people with handicaps and the elderly. Plus 
the rules change based on touchy-feely trends, like the hat fashions of 
yore.


I'm talking about Apple because they are the movers and shakers that 
directed where we are now. Others (MS, Google) largely followed or went 
in a similar direction.


The herd (including the elite producer herd) mostly thinks binary about 
abilities - either you can use a mouse or you can't. But it's not true. 
I can use a mouse pretty darn well, but I have to be careful about 
misclicks. (And sometimes accidental double-clicks that were intended as 
single.)


Thank goodness we do have some comfort adjustments such as mouse 
sensitivity and double-click time, etc. That's smart. But when it comes 
to "accessibility" the old binary thinking kicks in and the options and 
design are often pretty retarded, and only realistic for a smaller 
subset of the portion of our population that has some type of impairment.


Thankfully they may be focusing on the most heavily impaired, so that's 
good to at least help some people, but even then, I've had some 
experience with those and when I see "compliancy" I tend to shake my 
head. (And worry about the future as my own impairments grow.) Ideals 
and cliques/trends vs reality


What we often need is some SMART, to use that word as a noun the way 
Andy Griffith did. UI needs to be smart. Standards can be good, but when 
a group starts making standards or guidelines, they often design it 
partly dumb/bad, and inflict as much harm as good. It could be so much 
better. Desktop and mobile.


It's the same with physical products. I can't open Amazon's 
"frustration-free" packaging even with pliers. Whoever designed and 
approved that one was seriously out of touch with reality - a total 
farce. I can open a regular taped box easily with a cutter. Similar 
results happen sometimes in software, when good efforts go bad. If only 
more of these efforts could be compliant AND smart!


Society needs to mature enough to reality that there is a pretty wide 
range of ability. I can do things on a computer (with a mouse) that 
would amaze many people, yet I have those misclicks and double-clicks to 
watch out for.


I can (or could) do a wide range of voices/accents, which most people 
can't do, yet I've had several periods in life (including right now 
after COVID for many weeks and ongoing) when I can only say a few words 
without getting out of breath. I've had to cancel meetings, and am 
getting set up to make instructional videos WITHOUT talking.


I can hear and see quite well and I catch many 

Re: AW: Re: I need some DataGrid performance help

2020-05-07 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



(I know that Paul understands tradeoffs very well, so he already knows 
this, but for the benefit of others)


Maybe some concepts are so simple, people never take them seriously:

- You reap what you sow. You get the cake you bake.

- Comparisons: 1 < 2

- Complexity often reduces efficiency.

- Traveling farther at the same speed takes longer.

- Habits guide behavior and affect outcomes.



Like it or not, these are (in general) true. Coding without such 
principles is a handicap.


So looking at Field versus DataGrid (a collection of fields and more):

- Which is simpler?

- Which would you expect to deliver faster performance in most cases?

- Do you understand the tradeoffs?

- Do you understand your own goals?



Unfortunately the DataGrid is not as well-coded as it could be. 2 
minutes, let alone 30, is ridiculous. That's one thing. Hopefully it 
will be improved.


But imagine if it WERE coded incredibly well, and optimized to the max 
already today. Do you still understand the tradeoffs versus your own goals?


Is 10 < 1, or is 10 > 1?

(In reality the comparison might be 100 to 1 or even 1,000 to 1. But the 
overall answer is still the same.)


Do you expect (in all probability, with reasonable assumptions and 
maintenance versus weeds) to gather the type of crop you've planted at 
the harvest, or do you expect something else - something unrelated - to 
magically grow in its place?


(Some people hate general principles, but they can be applied 
efficiently to a large number of specific cases. I like efficiency and 
good outcomes.)




That's the DataGrid itself, and the logic of choosing to use it. Now 
let's look at the USER code.


I couldn't help but notice these lines:

> repeat with i=2 to the number of lines in tColumnNames
> put line i of tColumnNames into tColumnName

That won't have a negative impact in this specific case, but why do it?

It's a bad coding habit that slows down a lot of code. In fact it's the 
stereotypical LC code speed bump syntax. Seeing this in a post about 
performance is counterintuitive, because it's not in the performance 
mindset.


Maybe it's valid to have a love for this particular syntax and use it 
wherever it doesn't cause harm, but it's a dangerous habit because 
habits guide individual actions. Easy to forget, likely to cause harm 
elsewhere. Plus it spreads to other coders. A bad meme! That's why I 
like to make optimized syntax my habit and my default. It pays.


> Therefore, I have to use a loop anyway

True, but loops are generally bad (performance-wise) and the more you do 
inside them, the worse it gets. So if you have a chance to put anything 
OUTSIDE the loop, why shouldn't that be the FIRST instinct? Again, 
habits and outcomes.


> I still do not understand why in the original code, when 1st set in
> a session it took 3 min and on subsequent updates in the same session,
> it took 30 minutes. The datagrid must be slow erasing certain
> properties for updating.

I agree - either that or the content. Maybe file this as an LC bug!

But the nature of DataGrid (a collection of many fields, and much more!) 
is inherently complex, so there will always be relative limits on 
performance. More so the way it currently works. That's why I've never 
been a huge fan. How often should we use it? When we do, just remember: 
we get the cake we bake. Pros and cons included.


Therefore (considering you're still at 2 minutes) if at all possible, 
don't set these DG properties by code at runtime. Get the DG set up the 
way you want it, save it that way, fill the data at runtime. I know 
you'll get it working well as you always do!




Did someone suggest using a field? No, I didn't say that. Not in so many 
words. :) Take care!


(And BTW, a big thank-you to my late father Bill Kenworthy, who worked 
on military aircraft and high voltage electricity, and who taught me the 
principle of using simplicity for increased efficiency and performance 
at around the age of 7. I started coding at age 8. Still the most 
important professional lesson I've ever learned in a lifetime. I 
remember we were in the backyard when he explained it. Can't remember 
exactly what we were working on, but what a lesson. Thanks Dad!)


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: LiveCode useless seems to be Junk

2020-04-13 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Richmond:

> Thunderbird has recently started marking posts from the
> Use-list as junk.

Might be the click-bait subject lines lately. Seem to be coming from a 
server in Bulgaria? :D j/k


> whether there is something that can be done

There are also Junk Settings in Account Settings (Tools menu) that 
determine how Junk is determined. ("If enabled you must first train 
Thunderbird...") You can also disable the built-in Junk feature there.


Depending on which of those settings are turned on and also your email 
provider's setup, if an external sp*m flagging service is being used (or 
if you want to see typical triggers) you might be able to see more info 
by showing all headers (View menu) and looking for a sp*m status header 
on flagged emails.


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Old Fossil seeks fast track assistance

2020-04-09 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Howdy Graham,

This particular problem is ideally suited to a screen-sharing video 
conference tutoring session, talking you through the process and solving 
obstacles while you are hands-on. That could get you running in minutes 
to a couple of hours, rather than days to weeks.


I would normally very humbly recommend myself (I'm the best) :) but my 
breathing is still affected and I'm temporarily not up to holding a 
conversation since being sick.


So if you don't solve it extremely soon by yourself, I suggest you find 
someone (who is not hors de combat) to help you in a "live" session with 
this, it won't take long, then you can move forward with your project!


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Maximum field height?

2020-04-05 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Richard:

> Exactly. Reducing the differences between runtime and development
> is a cornerstone of The xTalk Way.
[...]
> Suffice to say politely and succinctly: a decade later, LC for
> mobile remains half-baked compared to what it could be, compared
> to The xTalk Way that rests at the heart of its origins.
> There, I said it. Someone had to.

Agreed!!! I had grown weary of endless arguments previously pushing back 
against most LC critiques while the wagons were circled, so very glad to 
see this frankly discussed now.


"Live" Code. Meaning: WYSIWYG between dev and runtime, no 
edit-compile-run cycle, much more efficient. Remember the marketing? For 
us the Users, it wasn't just marketing. It was real, and it was the 
reason and the empowerment. We lived it and used it. Still do on desktop.


But LC has never been "Live" Code on mobile platforms. A big fail. Not 
just the UI, but also the mobileBlahBlah keywords that must be placed in 
if/then branches to avoid runtime errors on desktop whereas they should 
have been designed pan-platform. When these first appeared I was hoping 
they were temporary. Instead they've grown and multiplied, setting an 
arguably bad trend for the future.


That was a huge design flaw or design mistake/bad decision for a product 
called "Live" Code. LC Ltd needs to understand and embrace some key 
characteristics of its own product. It's not just marketing, and it's 
not a HyperCard "Boomer" fad that will (or should) die out 
demographically with younger coders. It's valid, there's a reason, and 
it's so important.


How's that for a "second"? :)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: How to find the column and row of a basic tableField

2020-04-04 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



PS - Here are two word problems to view this type of algorithm in a 
bigger context beyond just software UI. Not too scary or difficult; our 
ancestors could solve similar problems, and so can kids in school.


Older problem:

You are in charge of preparing animal enclosures for a market. The 
marketplace has several pens that respectively hold 20, 15, 30, and 25 
goats and will be filled in that order. If 42 goats are expected, how 
many of the pens will be needed?


Newer problem:

Your app has a field with tabWidths of 200, 150, 300, and 250 (or the 
equivalent tabStops). The user's clickH minus left edge of the field and 
margin is 420. Assuming field hScroll is 0 and standard borders, which 
column did the user click?


(Then write an LC function to solve for any clickH and tabStops.)

Great exercise for an intermediate LC student to solve WITHOUT having 
previously seen solution source code! I'm fond of this type of problem.


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: How to find the column and row of a basic tableField

2020-04-02 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Pi:

> you make these statement but give no example code to show it. This
> is damned infuriating as it keeps us hunting around in the dark.

On the contrary, as I've mentioned and as you know, "SEVERAL people 
immediately provided sample code." You were using sarcasm at the time to 
walk back disproven previous statements, but you never politely asked me 
for anything that I noticed. Nevertheless you received a ton of code 
from other helpful souls before I even saw your sarcastic remarks. I 
think it's clear how you are playing this socially, but that's OK - the 
facts speak loud and clear.


You have many code samples, relieving any actual need for damnation or 
infuriation, and we also have a listing of correct verifiable facts for 
those who care about real info and don't want confusion. Putting out a 
stream of wrong statements never solves anything! I like to do the 
opposite, because wrong info hurts people. Stay safe. :)


Best wishes,

Curry K.

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Re: How to find the column and row of a basic tableField

2020-04-02 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



We don't need to confuse people - it DOES cause damage, because readers 
often trust confident/prolific statements without realizing which ones 
are flawed, and they act upon bad information. It often falls to 
consultants and trainers like myself to help individuals fix the 
resulting problems later. I guess that's good for business, but as an 
ethical person I also like to prevent headaches for others before they 
happen. I can't in good conscience let incorrect info slip by unchallenged.


Despite a lot of good info posted, there has been also considerable 
intentional "spin" on this topic in various threads, as well as several 
outright inaccurate claims, all of which could easily be confusing, so 
here's an ACCURATE FACTS RECAP (for all related threads) that people who 
desire real info can easily verify as factually correct and trust as 
reliable and objective:


1. Can fields display inline images? YES! A large number of images can 
be displayed.


2. Can fields display checkboxes? Only CUSTOM designed ones, which can 
work well.


3. Can we figure out which field column was clicked? YES!

4. Have we had this ability (#3) for a long time? YES! Since LC/RR 1.0 
at least.


5. Is finding which column something people commonly know or can figure 
out? Not sure, but SEVERAL people immediately provided sample code. 
(This was attempted as a strawman claim, it was not my claim, but 
hilariously backfired.) Actually there are at least THREE different 
approaches, two of which are generally applicable and the other also 
valid and interesting but specialized to certain content requirements. 
I'm not counting additional handy approach(es) that rely on an existing 
implementation of one of these three.


6. Does finding which column via tabstops require a "convoluted" 
solution with lots of code? HECK NO; that's rubbish! It has been 
available as a one-line function call without rolling your own since at 
least 2012 with SpreadLib. Also available with other libraries. And 
while rough sample functions have been posted here, some of us 
specialize in more efficient techniques and have much sleeker code.


7. Does finding which column require using the simple table field 
setting with cell edit enabled? NO! Not at all. The wording of the 
subject line might confuse people, but this was later clarified by Bernd 
regarding his helpful code sample.


8. Is using a datagrid somehow more trouble than setting up a field for 
desired table features? Depends on the approach, but IRRELEVANT to the 
original issue of WHETHER finding which column was available on regular 
fields. (In context of recent discussions, this was another strawman 
argument introduced to reframe the discussion and walk back previous 
incorrect claims.)


The reality is that multiple solutions are available to choose from, 
there are precoded solutions and sample code available, and each 
approach has some pros and cons. Do NOT be confused by "fans" of an 
approach (usually DG) who exaggerate and cherry-pick (or just make 
confident assertions) to sway others. They may sound confident, but the 
actual facts don't change based on who has the time and energy to be 
more talkative. Datagrids are fairly easy to set up, but the flip side 
is that they also more complex and subject to the limitations and 
consequences of that complexity. Those familiar with KISS and 
optimization will understand such considerations; well-documented in 
Computer Science. Fields have their pros and cons too. Be aware that you 
have choices, and which solution is superior depends on your project 
requirements.


Finally, while having a pre-coded solution is nice (and we've had some 
for years) people shouldn't be misled into thinking this is an extremely 
difficult problem. The math algorithm is simple to understand. Not 
rocket science by any stretch of the imagination; in fact, this is much 
closer to real-world problems encountered thousands of years ago in the 
Bronze Age or perhaps even earlier in the Neolithic. Literally somewhere 
between Jericho and Sumer in the level of progress and difficulty. The 
math is not complicated - it makes a good student learning exercise. If 
people think this is really hard, society may be in trouble! :)


This and other topics with some inaccurate claims have inspired me. When 
I get caught up, along with other things eventually I'll launch a Facts 
vs Myths/Fake News web page to help newbies sort out reliable 
information about LiveCode features. Accuracy is important and must not 
be lost among all the "politics" and opinions of discussions. Take care, 
all! Be safe about quality code, accurate info, and virus 
precautions/social distancing.


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: DataGrid question...

2020-03-30 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode


Pi:

> I’m not sure this is what Curry was thinking of. What do you think
> he was eluding to. We’ve ‘known’ this for years now apparently.

I love the humor so far - well done, kind of like a skit/spoof of Fake 
News flailing under the weight of Accurate Facts yet insistently 
demanding more, LOL, if that was your intent. OK, I'll join in the fun 
and play straight man in the act to ham it up and help give cooped up 
people at home a much-needed laugh, and educational to boot. Our own 
little Punch and Judy show. Just this one more email though; I've been 
sick for weeks and need to catch up on work, so extra typing has to be 
very limited.


Generally known (your claim, not mine): List members quickly provided 
starter code for not 1 but 2 separate approaches. I'd say the existence 
of tabstops and clickH/mouseH is fairly well-known. Just a matter of 
actually applying what is known - that's a key skill and we've just seen 
a real live demo of several people doing exactly that. Good job, all!


Long time: Check. Tabstops and mouseH have been there since LC/RR 1.0, 
if the dictionary can be trusted for once. That's quite a while. I 
myself published an optimized column function back in 2011 or 2012 with 
SpreadLib (and my critics keep reminding me that was a long time ago; 
they can't have it both ways) so I assume I'd probably been using 
rougher column code for several years before that. And I assume other 
people did too.


(But I admit, on a geological time scale that's just the blink of an 
eye. And in the course of human civilization, I don't have any handy 
evidence that people in ancient Catal Huyuk or Jericho were using 
similar methods. However even animals have an innate sense of comparing 
larger and smaller amounts, and early civilizations solved highly 
complex problems, so I wouldn't underestimate them; I think the average 
scholar back then was very smart, and placing a given value into a 
series of values should be doable IMHO. But to stick to proven facts, 
it's indeed a "long" time in LiveCode terms, the capability was 
available for almost as long as LC/RR itself. But not in geological 
terms or "God's time" and the life of our universe; I'm afraid the Fake 
News might have me over a barrel on possible meanings of the word long.) :-)


Providing people have some background on field props, this is no trouble 
at all! I don't believe all learning should be by rote, AKA either 
someone has seen the explicit code and heard a spiel, or else he/she is 
completely helpless and innocent of the entire concept. For LC tutoring 
I would place a "which column" coding challenge exercise as: Beginner 
skill level for known provided equal-width tabstops, Intermediate for 
rough handling all field tabstops, and Advanced for a cleaner/shorter 
optimized and polished solution and/or handling paragraph-level 
settings. Never claimed it was a one-liner (typical fake news "flailing" 
with hyperbole, common media tactic) but as demo'd here it's not hard to 
make your own function, for those not function-averse or 
performance-averse. But yes the field is underappreciated and much 
sexier than the gossip and hearsay crowd gives it credit for. So it's 
great that we are increasing awareness and understanding and driving a 
stake into the heart of some misconceptions!


That concludes my brief battle to fortify field users against Fake 
News...for this round, but the war for hearts and minds never ends in 
our 24/7 media cycle! So I'll fly away back to my sickbed lair to 
recuperate (but not lick my wounds or touch my face) until the next time 
Forces of Misinformation and Mayhem rise once more from the gutters and 
perch on the gorgoyles to threaten the code-izens of our fair virtual 
metropolis. Carry on!


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: DataGrid question...

2020-03-29 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode


Pi:

> Fields: Images, yes. Other objects, no. Working out which cell
> has been clicked, no.
> Is that ‘fake news’? If so, sad face. If not, still sad face.

Well, sorry but I have to say YES it's largely fake news! :D

I'm ill and no strength for an argument (and BTW it has been a fairly 
"serious" and costly, long-lasting illness I would add; merely glad to 
have stayed out of hospital) so this will be my last word on the subject 
but the facts are crystal clear.


Images: Well-supported in fields, and for a long time!

Working out which cell has been clicked: Sorry, that's not accurate 
either. Yes, we do have that! Also for a long time.


Other objects: That one depends on interpretation. Other standard LC 
objects dragged in? No. Interactive content that can look and function 
just like objects to fill the same need? Yes. Often it works great. From 
checkboxes to charts and tables. I've been very active in this area, and 
so have others.


Not meaning to pick on you, this does not center around you, but it's a 
good example. Just addressing facts and a general need for accuracy in 
what we promote. We've had too much misinformation widely spread over 
the years, and it harms projects when people get their minds filled up 
with a lot of wrong info and use it to direct their actions and decisions.


The field is one such area - greatly underappreciated for its many 
strengths. Many other areas where we've had untrue facts widely spread 
and accepted/repeated/learned as truth. Glad this one was caught early.


Be safe, everyone...in code quality and in health matters. Bad stuff 
going around.


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
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LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: DataGrid question...

2020-03-29 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode


Pi:
> The only issue with using a field is you are limited to character
> data presentation only. You can’t put inline images, widgets,
> checkboxes, etc.

Mark:
> Now that's just patently not true. No problem with images:
> Set the imagesource of char x of field y of this card to tImageID

Thanks Mark for catching and correcting that. Way too much inaccurate 
info and "fake news" about LiveCode gets propagated, and often picked up 
and parroted even further by others. LC field is extremely versatile!


DataGrids are used far more often than they are needed.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

WordLib: Take charge of MS Word and OpenOffice documents
SpreadLib: "Excel-lent" spreadsheet import/export for LC
http://livecodeaddons.com/

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Re: Its very quiet

2020-03-29 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



> How about we all chime in on what we are currently working on?

Like many who have been sick between all the flu and corona going 
around, just working on getting well again. Managed to stay out of 
hospital, but not much energy. Quiet is good


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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Re: Using Shift + Cmd + 1 as a menu short in LiveCode

2020-03-25 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



This was reported by me and confirmed by LC last year:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22107

(Shift-Tab is the most problematic example, since it doesn't have a 
convenient shifted char. Menu defs seem glitchy, so we may need to file 
additional reports but hoping this Shift bug gets nailed soon. 
Introduced in LC7 - one of the many still with us over the years.)


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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Re: Cannot identify the Menubar button clicked under Mac OS

2020-02-25 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Henry:

> Anyone know of a workaround for this?

Just be aware that many LC "lessons" are flawed. Don't believe 
everything you read.


Beyond the bug, updating Windows menu only on its own mousedown is 
already a failing strategy to begin with (bad instruction from "lesson") 
because the user can browse ALL menus after a single click.


Therefore for your purpose, you DON'T need to know which menu was 
clicked. Just update them all.


(But the bug should be fixed anyway - target should always work.)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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Re: Diagnosing a crasher (was Re: Quality, reputation, and improving both)

2020-02-21 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Chiming in again since it dovetails with today's work:

Crashing bugs (and others) sometimes require a missing 
factor/context/detail in the original real-world project that is tricky 
to reproduce in independent test stacks. You have to compensate for that.


I filed this crasher today, but had to use a slightly more "extreme" 
example compared to the original real-project-crasher to get 100% 
reliable open-click-crash independent test stack:


(Save work before running)

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22586

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: text copied form LC generated PDF, WTF?

2020-02-18 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Craig:

> WTF has lost most of its bite due to simple continued usage

Then, to indulge your premise, which I agree is the trend in a great 
many social and media circles (but not all) consider this:


So WTF is the continued point of using WTF? If it no longer has enough 
shock value to raise any eyebrows, then it can hardly be the most 
appropriate choice of expression for any real-life surprise, concern, or 
scorn. Might as well say, oh golly gee. Oh me oh my.


As I mentioned before, logically "why not use something a little more 
risque and exciting than a plain-old unprovocative WTF? :) "


(But if it makes anyone uncomfortable that I'm using WTF repeatedly 
while discussing its previous use here, I apologize. But the point is - 
that also would tend to call the premise into question.)


Social trends and norms are usually not logical, but as coders we should be.

> I am really only concerned that LC not get a reputation for
> being unstable. That would turn off new users long before they
> ever actually experienced such a thing.

In contrast to scoundrels such as myself who have long worked to protect 
LC from a reputation for being unstable, by the alternative and 
nefarious means of working hard to encourage its stability. :D


It's much more likely for someone to get a bad impression from unlucky 
hands-on experience with the thing itself, than to stumble across these 
discussions while surfing. And if so, they'd be as likely to see me 
praising LC as, in this case, using the "bad language" of (not WTF, but) 
explaining how I've come to accept the sandy foundation and use new 
tactics to gain the upper hand again.


BTW, stability was actually not the main category of bugs I was talking 
about. Perhaps I could have said the Age of LC Bugs or Engine Bugs. I 
actually thought IDE Bugs sounded less negative. Ah well. Sorry for the 
bad language, WT(xxx) was I thinking! :)


Anyway, that's all the talk I can afford (otherwise at the expense of 
work) so back to lurking and working. I enjoyed taking this "interval" 
here to discuss and will do so again when time/energy permits. Hope to 
read more of Dar Scott (a very logical man) and Richmond (always 
provocative, never boring) too. Curry interval over, back to the usual 
programming here. Take care, all!


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Does any one know what Player "intervals" actually are?

2020-02-18 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



In your own case (Paul) luckily there is probably very little cause for 
concern - because your files have other context available, allowing us 
to either convert/confirm, or else entirely replace the most important 
interval values. And I don't consider this difficult to tame 
sufficiently for practical purposes, again in your own case.


But as a larger issue of depending on LC intervals - yep, it's huge! 
Really a stunning eye-opener to see the different values for the 
different files. We should give a quick tip to all LC developers: DON'T 
use intervals for permanently storing media time values. :)


As for the original question: Given their arbitrary nature per OS/Media 
framework, I actually think "interval" may be the best choice of word! 
An arbitrary slice of time. Perfectly named, but utterly problematic if 
treated as anything other than arbitrary and temporary.


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
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LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: text copied form LC generated PDF, WTF?

2020-02-18 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



> Not to forget SpreadLib. ;)

Since you mention it, SpreadLib is not forgotten at all! Proud that 
SpreadLib was first, and is best, of its type. SpreadOut, especially, 
has come a long way since last public release. Looking forward very much 
to that update.


Most addons have progressed with features and fixes privately, and are 
waiting for official release, but releases take some time in themselves, 
and client deadlines always have to come first. We have some clients 
here that could vouch for both parts of that statement. :)


(I'm physically handicapped with some taxing health limitations, thus my 
active time is finite, determined by actual daily energy/strength and 
endurance, without anywhere near as much choice or freedom over my 
remaining time as most people take for granted. So clients get heavy 
priority, but addons are never forgotten and the work continues. Nor is 
this list ever forgotten, although I can't afford to be very vocal here 
beyond the occasional quick joke or brief comment. Mostly I'm a reader! 
Not by choice.)


LC's "infinite bugs" increasing in tempo since LC7 and frequent breaking 
changes have outpaced me at times, providing an ever-shifting foundation 
for building upon. Breaking things is usually easier and faster than 
cleaning up. In fact, I've devoted an amazing amount of my entire career 
to finding, documenting, and developing high-quality workarounds for 
these IDE and engine bugs - and it seems that we're just getting started.


But here's the good news - I'm adjusting strategies and tactics to that 
reality, having finally accepted it as the norm to expect now and 
perhaps forever. So I'm also developing new tools to gain the upper hand 
again in this Age of IDE Bugs, and therefore confident that I will 
indeed have the last laugh on this subject of my delayed progress (ha 
ha) and get addon updates back on a much more regular schedule, among 
other things that are likely to cause a big splash - perhaps even shake 
up the industry a bit! :D


Another high priority for update release this year is WordReport - quite 
a lot of inquiries lately, which are pushing it toward the top of my 
list. Yep, it's coming, and it's going to reach new heights. Thanks to 
all for your feedback and support! Exciting things are on the way.


--

About the subject of copying and pasting to/from LC, here's a current 
bug that's easy to workaround, but also easy to forget to workaround - 
and can cause mayhem:


https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22172

--

BTW, it's a tad difficult to completely ignore "WTF" posts, and my post 
here was a joke on two levels, the first of which Klaus immediately 
acknowledged.


But the second level had a more serious undercurrent, and it's why I 
posted a reply in the first place: is WTF considered completely 
squeaky-clean and shock-free nowadays? Has it, along with its component 
words, been completely sanitized for all ages and audiences? And if so, 
then logically: why unfailingly abbreviate, without ever using the 
component words every now and then for variety, and also why not use 
something a little more risque and exciting than a plain-old 
unprovocative WTF? :)


Thus the WTF file format, since it is so often mentioned here lately.

Take care and enjoy coding, everyone

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

WordLib: Take charge of MS Word and OpenOffice documents
SpreadLib: "Excel-lent" spreadsheet import/export for LC
http://livecodeaddons.com/

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Re: text copied form LC generated PDF, WTF?

2020-02-18 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Touche! :)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
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LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: text copied form LC generated PDF, WTF?

2020-02-18 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



That looks like a perfectly valid WTF file.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
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LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Happy Birthday

2019-12-25 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode

... and many returns.

Best wishes,

Curry K.

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Re: Windows Standalone Performance

2019-12-11 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



> No one is going to turn off their file AV

LOL - yes, but that would be entirely your idea, not mine.

As I said, yet another reason to code with care.

Saving a stack multiple times while launching is not a good habit. Bad 
habits add up to hurt Mac apps too.


The AV did you a favor with exaggerated symptoms to highlight that 
weakness in your code. Not just a Windows problem. If you applied the 
fix for all platforms, you now have better Mac code too.


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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LiveCode Training and Consulting
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Re: Windows Standalone Performance

2019-12-10 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Bob:

> Since I do a lot of setup, I was saving the stack(s) multiple
> times just launching the app! And it was killing the performance.

Behold the antivirus. One more reason to code with care

This time it did you a favor; these habits add up to hurt Mac apps too.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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Script Editor disassociates - a lossy LC IDE bug

2019-12-05 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Wondering if this bug has already been reported?

I've seen a wonderful LC 9 IDE bug: sometimes the Script Editor window 
seems to disassociate from the object being edited. Thus after this bug 
is triggered, any typed script changes may not really be applied and 
saved, although they are shown as applied. Next LC session, those 
changes are gone; the stack code is still as it was prior to the bug 
being triggered and prior to editing the script.


An alternate form is that the script changes actually are applied, but 
in a bad way: first the script disassociates completely and is empty, 
then the empty script is saved, overwriting the previous script. Nice! 
(I think this is my favorite variation; if we're going to cause loss of 
work/code, might as well do it boldly and not beat around the bush.)


I suspect this happens more on Mac than Windows, but since I don't have 
a recipe, not sure. I've seen this happen to other people rather than on 
my own machine. On LC 905 for sure, and probably on 950 also.


If Script Editor disassociation does happen, I advise immediate but 
careful no-save quit or force quit, and pray that you're already in the 
habit of backing up beforehand. Copy and paste the current script text 
to an external text editor if necessary. Of course this particular bug 
just might be able to defeat the safety of stack backups too in some 
situations, but hey, that's why it's an extra-fabulous bug!


So, in addition to being a bit crashy and glitchy, the 9 IDE is a bit 
work-lossy. That could turn off both new and old users if they are the 
humor-deficient type to frown on losing some work. But shucks, ain't no 
thang! Only features features features (and new side projects) matter! 
Glad we all agree on that.


Any reports or recipes on this issue? I'll post a report if there is 
none. Thanks


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
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Re: Connecting LC to Xcode

2019-12-03 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



LC and Xcode are a wee bit particular which version. Bookmark this page:

https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

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