Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Roger Eller via use-livecode]

+1

On Mar 8, 2017 7:42 PM, "Andre Garzia via use-livecode" <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 5:12 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Besides, this is not
> > debugging, this is remote debugging, and if anything screams "premium",
> > it's a feature like this.  Anyone who has been building for mobile since
> we
> > could do that with LC has been working with their own personal debugging
> > hacks.  You can debug mobile, on the device, without this tool.
> >
>
> Hey Mike,
>
> I completely disagree with this notion that having a debugger is a premium
> feature. As you say, anyone who was building mobile was crafting helpers to
> help debug their creations but this is not the same as stepping through the
> code with a debugger.
>
> Lets not mix the act of debugging an app (removing bugs) with having a real
> debugger. For example, for ages Web Developers filled their code with
> alert() dialogs and console.log() calls which is much like we do with LC on
> mobile, but, all browsers these days ship real debuggers and both Chrome
> and Firefox ship with remote debuggers, heck Firefox alone can debug iOS
> Safari from Desktop Linux.
>
> Remote debuggers are not a fancy premium feature. Android Studio (which is
> the free oficial IDE) has a remote debugger. Visual Studio has remote
> debugger. Phonegap has a remote debugger. Corona SDK has a remote debugger.
> Basically everyone that is shipping mobile apps has a remote debugger and
> is not charging a premium on it.
>
> An Indy License costs more than 500 USD per year. Thats not peanuts, thats
> a solid investment, not allow people who make such investment from having a
> normal standard tool for mobile app development is crazy! LC on mobile is
> already buggy enough on the engine side, having this debugger would have
> the side effect of making it easier for us to contribute bug recipes for
> example. Lots of time here we loose a precious amount of time trying to
> identify if the bug is on our side of the code or the engine since we can't
> step through it.
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code.
> http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service.
> ___
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 5:12 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Besides, this is not
> debugging, this is remote debugging, and if anything screams "premium",
> it's a feature like this.  Anyone who has been building for mobile since we
> could do that with LC has been working with their own personal debugging
> hacks.  You can debug mobile, on the device, without this tool.
>

Hey Mike,

I completely disagree with this notion that having a debugger is a premium
feature. As you say, anyone who was building mobile was crafting helpers to
help debug their creations but this is not the same as stepping through the
code with a debugger.

Lets not mix the act of debugging an app (removing bugs) with having a real
debugger. For example, for ages Web Developers filled their code with
alert() dialogs and console.log() calls which is much like we do with LC on
mobile, but, all browsers these days ship real debuggers and both Chrome
and Firefox ship with remote debuggers, heck Firefox alone can debug iOS
Safari from Desktop Linux.

Remote debuggers are not a fancy premium feature. Android Studio (which is
the free oficial IDE) has a remote debugger. Visual Studio has remote
debugger. Phonegap has a remote debugger. Corona SDK has a remote debugger.
Basically everyone that is shipping mobile apps has a remote debugger and
is not charging a premium on it.

An Indy License costs more than 500 USD per year. Thats not peanuts, thats
a solid investment, not allow people who make such investment from having a
normal standard tool for mobile app development is crazy! LC on mobile is
already buggy enough on the engine side, having this debugger would have
the side effect of making it easier for us to contribute bug recipes for
example. Lots of time here we loose a precious amount of time trying to
identify if the bug is on our side of the code or the engine since we can't
step through it.



-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code.
http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service.
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> One of the points that might be brought up at this point is that
> LiveCode in presented as a complete programming language/packet
> in itself; there is no indication given that users of LiveCode
> are expected to know other, lower-level languages too.
>
> I suspect that a very high proportion of people who use LiveCode,
> whether one of the 2 commercial offerings, or the free offering,
> do so just because they have either (like myself) done their level
> best to forget all the command-line languages of their youth, or
> don't know any and don't wish to learn any.

With engine code, much of LC's community - including me - is in the same 
place as those using other scripting engines:  as scripters, relatively 
few among us have the C chops to contribute to that part of the project.


But with LiveCode we have options beyond the engine itself.  As you 
noted, it's more than just a scripting engine, it's a complete IDE, and 
with LiveCode everything in the IDE is written in LiveCode.


Those in a position to contribute fixes and enhancements can search the 
bug DB for items involving the IDE.


And to make that even easier Peter Brett provides a shortlist in each 
weekly community newsletter, grouped by difficulty - here's the most recent:


   Help needed!

   Want to get involved in the LiveCode open source project but
   don’t know where to start? Try one of these:

   - (Easy) Update & complete documentation for "the processor"
   - (Easy) selectionChanged does not appear in the player object page
 of the dictionary
   - (Easy) Fix format of "mobileControlDo" dictionary entries
   - (Medium) Add info on manipulating field contents to the User Guide
   - (Medium) Make guide outlines in the Dictionary expand/collapse
  with repeated clicks
   - (Medium) Reduce whitespace in Dictionary
   - (Hard) Allow Windows line endings in script-only stacks
   - (Hard) Create a LiveCode Community build for Raspberry Pi



--
 Richard Gaskin
 LiveCode Community Laison
 rich...@livecode.org


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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

One of the points that might be brought up at this point is that 
LiveCode in presented as a complete
programming language/packet in itself; there is no indication given that 
users of LiveCode are expected

to know other, lower-level languages too.

I suspect that a very high proportion of people who use LiveCode, 
whether one of the 2 commercial offerings, or the free offering, do so 
just because they have either (like myself) done their level best
to forget all the command-line languages of their youth, or don't know 
any and don't wish to learn any.


Richmond.

On 3/7/17 12:23 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

Andre Garzia wrote:

> The fact that these decisions are being taken, where the HQ appears
> to be focusing more and more on business licensees feels like I am
> being forced into such license. At this moment, I am starting to
> wonder if there is any reason to be indy at all.

...or Community.

Finding the best mix of features for the the two proprietary licenses 
and the open source edition is a challenge.


I spent the last several days at the SoCal Linux Expo, and had good 
talks with team members from NginX, MariaDB, Nextcloud, and Ubuntu.


Those are among the strongest open source projects around, and all of 
them keep the projects going by offering paid services and software 
packages aimed at the enterprise audience.


On the surface it would appear that what they're doing is similar to 
what LiveCode is doing, and in some broad respects I suppose it is.


But I believe there are also at least two key differences:

- The for-fee-only offerings from those other companies are indeed
  specialized for larger customers, and the core free (libre and
   gratis) software is full-featured to the point of being best-of-
  breed.

- The communities surrounding those projects contribute a much larger
  percentage of the core free software.

With LiveCode, the company restricts a broader range of functionality 
to the proprietary editions, but they're also paying for a much larger 
percentage of programmer-hours going into the package.


Personally, I believe a healthy long-term balance would be more on par 
with those other projects, with more stuff shared across all editions 
and having that become possible because more of it comes from the 
community.


The tricky part is how to get from here to there.

Many of those projects are technologies that some of the world's 
biggest companies rely on, and many of those companies have full-time 
employees dedicated to contributing to those open source projects.  At 
Heroku, for example, they maintain two full-timers whose only job is 
to submit pull requests for postgreSQL, and Google pays for a lot of 
the development of Python.


The LiveCode world does not yet have a Google or Heroku in our 
community covering payroll for full-time engine developers.


So the question at hand for all of us, company and community alike, is:

   What is the best balance of free and non-free offerings
   that will not only grow the platform, but also keep the
   ship running in order to pursue that growth?

I don't have an easy answer on this.  But I believe it is a very 
important question.


And it may be harder to answer for this project than for others, for a 
great many reasons related to both the market the project serves and 
the complexity of delivering rich GUI authoring for so many platforms.


As just one comparison, my understanding is that the LiveCode code 
base is at least 30% larger than the code base for NginX.  Not only is 
LC a bigger project by that measure, but also arguably in terms of 
code complexity, because the touch-points for NGinX are limited to a 
relatively small number of OS APIs for networking and file I/O, but 
LiveCode needs those along with a vast number of broadly-varying GUI 
messaging APIs on top of that.


As I ponder this question, I recognize that while I'm not in a 
position to cover full-time salaries for LiveCode contributors, I can 
invest a certain percentage of my time each week to the project in 
light of the many practical benefits it offers my company.




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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Andre Garzia wrote:

> The fact that these decisions are being taken, where the HQ appears
> to be focusing more and more on business licensees feels like I am
> being forced into such license. At this moment, I am starting to
> wonder if there is any reason to be indy at all.

...or Community.

Finding the best mix of features for the the two proprietary licenses 
and the open source edition is a challenge.


I spent the last several days at the SoCal Linux Expo, and had good 
talks with team members from NginX, MariaDB, Nextcloud, and Ubuntu.


Those are among the strongest open source projects around, and all of 
them keep the projects going by offering paid services and software 
packages aimed at the enterprise audience.


On the surface it would appear that what they're doing is similar to 
what LiveCode is doing, and in some broad respects I suppose it is.


But I believe there are also at least two key differences:

- The for-fee-only offerings from those other companies are indeed
  specialized for larger customers, and the core free (libre and
   gratis) software is full-featured to the point of being best-of-
  breed.

- The communities surrounding those projects contribute a much larger
  percentage of the core free software.

With LiveCode, the company restricts a broader range of functionality to 
the proprietary editions, but they're also paying for a much larger 
percentage of programmer-hours going into the package.


Personally, I believe a healthy long-term balance would be more on par 
with those other projects, with more stuff shared across all editions 
and having that become possible because more of it comes from the community.


The tricky part is how to get from here to there.

Many of those projects are technologies that some of the world's biggest 
companies rely on, and many of those companies have full-time employees 
dedicated to contributing to those open source projects.  At Heroku, for 
example, they maintain two full-timers whose only job is to submit pull 
requests for postgreSQL, and Google pays for a lot of the development of 
Python.


The LiveCode world does not yet have a Google or Heroku in our community 
covering payroll for full-time engine developers.


So the question at hand for all of us, company and community alike, is:

   What is the best balance of free and non-free offerings
   that will not only grow the platform, but also keep the
   ship running in order to pursue that growth?

I don't have an easy answer on this.  But I believe it is a very 
important question.


And it may be harder to answer for this project than for others, for a 
great many reasons related to both the market the project serves and the 
complexity of delivering rich GUI authoring for so many platforms.


As just one comparison, my understanding is that the LiveCode code base 
is at least 30% larger than the code base for NginX.  Not only is LC a 
bigger project by that measure, but also arguably in terms of code 
complexity, because the touch-points for NGinX are limited to a 
relatively small number of OS APIs for networking and file I/O, but 
LiveCode needs those along with a vast number of broadly-varying GUI 
messaging APIs on top of that.


As I ponder this question, I recognize that while I'm not in a position 
to cover full-time salaries for LiveCode contributors, I can invest a 
certain percentage of my time each week to the project in light of the 
many practical benefits it offers my company.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 LiveCode Community Liaison
 rich...@livecode.org


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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

You can't build ios with community, so that's moot.  Besides, this is not
debugging, this is remote debugging, and if anything screams "premium",
it's a feature like this.  Anyone who has been building for mobile since we
could do that with LC has been working with their own personal debugging
hacks.  You can debug mobile, on the device, without this tool.

If LC corporate isn't focused on sales and improving revenue, then we're
all going to be without LC, because even though LC is OSS, someone has to
pay for all the effort that goes into it.  Community doesn't pay the bills,
and almost nobody outside of LC corporate is doing anything about the
codebase - just go on git and have a look.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 5:41 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > - Implementation of a remote debugger (Business only):
> > Run a standalone for the local platform from the IDE and debug it whilst
> it
> > runs locally
> > Run a standalone for iOS or Android from the IDE and debug it whilst it
> > runs on a directly connected Android or iOS device
> >
>
> First congratulations on the new (tentative) release. Lots of good
> improvements there.
>
> Still, the fact that debugging is considered a business level feature
> doesn't work for me. Any software developer who is shipping products and is
> serious about them will use a debugger. This feature should be in the
> community version or at least the indy one.
>
> Just like the TS Net arbitrary difference between licenses, this is another
> "business decision" where HQ is shooting itself on the foot. Any other
> platform tool will have debugger in their most basic offerings and by
> debugger I mean "ability to debug (as in stepper) on deployed platforms".
>
> The fact that these decisions are being taken, where the HQ appears to be
> focusing more and more on business licensees feels like I am being forced
> into such license. At this moment, I am starting to wonder if there is any
> reason to be indy at all.
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code.
> http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service.
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 5:41 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> - Implementation of a remote debugger (Business only):
> Run a standalone for the local platform from the IDE and debug it whilst it
> runs locally
> Run a standalone for iOS or Android from the IDE and debug it whilst it
> runs on a directly connected Android or iOS device
>

First congratulations on the new (tentative) release. Lots of good
improvements there.

Still, the fact that debugging is considered a business level feature
doesn't work for me. Any software developer who is shipping products and is
serious about them will use a debugger. This feature should be in the
community version or at least the indy one.

Just like the TS Net arbitrary difference between licenses, this is another
"business decision" where HQ is shooting itself on the foot. Any other
platform tool will have debugger in their most basic offerings and by
debugger I mean "ability to debug (as in stepper) on deployed platforms".

The fact that these decisions are being taken, where the HQ appears to be
focusing more and more on business licensees feels like I am being forced
into such license. At this moment, I am starting to wonder if there is any
reason to be indy at all.




-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code.
http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service.
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Re: Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

No, I found it.  It's mergDeploy.  It turns out it is working, but only as
long as I have it load at startup.  If I select it from the Development
menu, it doesn't recognize the device correctly.

On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 5:29 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 3/2/17 2:18 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> Something else that would be good:  If I could go back to being able to
>> test right to the device, instead of having to build a standalone and then
>> install it.  I forget whose plugin let me do that, but I miss that,
>>
>
> It's built-in, always has been (unless I'm not understanding what you
> mean.) If your phone is cabled to the computer, when you click the Test
> button it builds to the connected device. I haven't had to build an iOS app
> for a while so maybe something changed there, but it does work on Android.
>
> I occasionally have trouble getting my Mac to recognize that my Android
> phone is attached. In that case, I go to Terminal and do:
>
> ./adb stop-server
> ./adb start-server
> ./adb devices
>
> And it usually lists the device. If adb can see it, so can LC.
>
> I've only had that fail once, and no matter what I did the phone didn't
> show up. It turned out that I'd plugged the phone into the wrong one of
> three cables snaking around my desk, and the USB charger at the other end
> beligerantly refused to respond.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 3/2/17 2:18 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:

Something else that would be good:  If I could go back to being able to
test right to the device, instead of having to build a standalone and then
install it.  I forget whose plugin let me do that, but I miss that,


It's built-in, always has been (unless I'm not understanding what you 
mean.) If your phone is cabled to the computer, when you click the Test 
button it builds to the connected device. I haven't had to build an iOS 
app for a while so maybe something changed there, but it does work on 
Android.


I occasionally have trouble getting my Mac to recognize that my Android 
phone is attached. In that case, I go to Terminal and do:


./adb stop-server
./adb start-server
./adb devices

And it usually lists the device. If adb can see it, so can LC.

I've only had that fail once, and no matter what I did the phone didn't 
show up. It turned out that I'd plugged the phone into the wrong one of 
three cables snaking around my desk, and the USB charger at the other 
end beligerantly refused to respond.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Something else that would be good:  If I could go back to being able to
test right to the device, instead of having to build a standalone and then
install it.  I forget whose plugin let me do that, but I miss that,
especially when I'm testing things that don't work well in the simulator
(like the camera)

On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 3:20 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> For anyone other than myself who might possibly care about this sort of
> thing:
>
> 9.0.0 DP-4 runs on Mac OS 10.7.5
>
> while
>
> 9.0.0 DP-5 does not
>
> [which means that when I want to explore its features I shall use the
> Linux version]
>
> Richmond.
>
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

For anyone other than myself who might possibly care about this sort of 
thing:


9.0.0 DP-4 runs on Mac OS 10.7.5

while

9.0.0 DP-5 does not

[which means that when I want to explore its features I shall use the 
Linux version]


Richmond.

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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

oh baby i just read the blog on the profiler.  I am going to have fun with
this, too.

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 12:27 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> panagiotis merakos wrote:
>
> > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19248
>
> Unfortunate to see complication after complication pile up from the IDE's
> insistence that stacks with the same name should not be in memory at the
> same time.
>
> As we've discussed earlier, the engine does not appear to have such a
> limitation for most operations.
>
> The real issue at the root of all this is the subset of actions performed
> on stacks with the same name affecting the wrong stack to due an
> easily-fixable limitation in how topstack is derived:
>
> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18793
>
> If the more complete algo employed in the FixedTopStack function provided
> in comment #1 there were implemented in the engine's stack topstack
> referencing, so many workflow limitations unique to LiveCode would go
> away
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
>  
>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

panagiotis merakos wrote:

> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19248

Unfortunate to see complication after complication pile up from the 
IDE's insistence that stacks with the same name should not be in memory 
at the same time.


As we've discussed earlier, the engine does not appear to have such a 
limitation for most operations.


The real issue at the root of all this is the subset of actions 
performed on stacks with the same name affecting the wrong stack to due 
an easily-fixable limitation in how topstack is derived:


http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18793

If the more complete algo employed in the FixedTopStack function 
provided in comment #1 there were implemented in the engine's stack 
topstack referencing, so many workflow limitations unique to LiveCode 
would go away


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Trevor, I've said it before and I'll say it again. You are da bomb! :-)

Bob S


> On Feb 24, 2017, at 09:18 , Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 11:00 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> If you want, you can apply those changes locally:
>> 
>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/5180/files
>> 
>> and see if the problem is fixed.
>> 
> 
> I have a stack that will install the standalone builder fix (plus one other
> one I’ve reported) when you open it. I have it as a plugin and open it when
> I want to build a standalone.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pficdwx3gm6z76c/InstallRevSaveAsStandaloneScriptUpdate.livecode?dl=0
> 
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> Outcome & ScreenSteps
> www.outcomeapp.io - www.screensteps.com

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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 11:00 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> If you want, you can apply those changes locally:
>
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/5180/files
>
> and see if the problem is fixed.
>

I have a stack that will install the standalone builder fix (plus one other
one I’ve reported) when you open it. I have it as a plugin and open it when
I want to build a standalone.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pficdwx3gm6z76c/InstallRevSaveAsStandaloneScriptUpdate.livecode?dl=0

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Outcome & ScreenSteps
www.outcomeapp.io - www.screensteps.com
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[panagiotis merakos via use-livecode]

If you want, you can apply those changes locally:

https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/5180/files

and see if the problem is fixed.

1. Type in the msg box "edit the script of stack revsaveasstandalone"
2. Make those changes
3. Make sure you click on the "Apply" button
4. Try to create a standalone for more than one platforms

PS: The changes will not be saved once you quit LiveCode, unless you change
the permissions in the LiveCode .app bundle

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 4:54 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> That would be it, although I do not use any behaviors, except for data
> grids.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Feb 24, 2017, at 08:13 , panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Bob you are probably affected by this bug:
> >
> > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19248
> >
> > This will be fixed in 8.1.4 RC-1 (thanks to Trevor who identified the
> cause
> > and submitted a pull request)
> >
> > Best,
> > Panos
>
>
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[panagiotis merakos via use-livecode]

Bob you are probably affected by this bug:

http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19248

This will be fixed in 8.1.4 RC-1 (thanks to Trevor who identified the cause
and submitted a pull request)

Best,
Panos
--

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 3:41 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> That is interesting because I am still struggling with a bug
> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19322 where compiling to more
> than one OS from a splash stack and with stack files seems to "corrupt" (I
> use the term loosely) the mainstack where the libraries have been added to
> the list of stackfiles. What it does is it changes the path of the stack
> files to the path of the COPIED stack files in the first (or previous)
> build.
>
> I say this post is interesting because this began with 8.1.x. Prior to
> that I could do multiple builds with no problems. Something regressed
> methinks in the 8.1 forward. The workaround is simple: Only build for one
> platform at a time.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Feb 23, 2017, at 17:45 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > v8.1 and v9 share the same format.
> >
> > But even when there is a format change, the team's done a good job of
> providing save-as going back at least a decade's worth of older formats.
> >
> > --
> > Richard Gaskin
>
>
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

That would be it, although I do not use any behaviors, except for data grids. 

Bob S


> On Feb 24, 2017, at 08:13 , panagiotis merakos via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Bob you are probably affected by this bug:
> 
> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19248
> 
> This will be fixed in 8.1.4 RC-1 (thanks to Trevor who identified the cause
> and submitted a pull request)
> 
> Best,
> Panos


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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

That is interesting because I am still struggling with a bug 
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19322 where compiling to more than 
one OS from a splash stack and with stack files seems to "corrupt" (I use the 
term loosely) the mainstack where the libraries have been added to the list of 
stackfiles. What it does is it changes the path of the stack files to the path 
of the COPIED stack files in the first (or previous) build. 

I say this post is interesting because this began with 8.1.x. Prior to that I 
could do multiple builds with no problems. Something regressed methinks in the 
8.1 forward. The workaround is simple: Only build for one platform at a time. 

Bob S


> On Feb 23, 2017, at 17:45 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> v8.1 and v9 share the same format.
> 
> But even when there is a format change, the team's done a good job of 
> providing save-as going back at least a decade's worth of older formats.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin


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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I like the way these tracks are going.  This is a very sensible and logical
way to progress.  The cool new dangerous toys go into the newest version,
and the sensible stuff goes into both.

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 5:07 AM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Richmond,
> In general that is the case, yes. When for example 8.1.3 GM has been
> released, we merge the branches all the way up so that the develop branch
> (from which DPs are released) contains everything from that branch. In some
> cases there may be things that are in earlier releases but not in a DP, but
> very rarely, and I think it would only happen with regression fixes that
> are specific to that earlier release.
>
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 6:26 AM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> I wish I could understand the way different "levels" come out
> concurrently. Are we to assume
> that all the new things in 8.1.3 are also bound into 9.0.0 DP-5?
>
> Richmond.
>
> On 2/23/17 10:41 pm, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:
> > Dear list members,
> >
> > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-5.
> >
> >
> > Developer Preview Release
> > =
> > Warning: this is not a stable release.  Please ensure that you back up
> your
> > stacks before testing them.
> >
> > Getting the Release
> > ===
> > You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or
> via
> > the automatic updater.
> >
> > Release Contents
> > 
> > LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-5 contains exciting new features, bug fixes, stability
> > and security improvements.
> >
> > In total, 21 bugs have been fixed since the last development preview
> > release (LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-4).
> >
> > Moreover, 36 additional bugs that have been fixed for 8.1.4 RC-1 (which
> is
> > not released yet), are included in LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-5.
> >
> > LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-5 contains, among others, the following exciting new
> > features:
> >
> > - Implementation of NFC tag reading on Android (Community, Indy and
> > Business):
> > New functions/commands/messages to read data from NFC tags.
> >
> > - Implementation of a script library for common MIME functions
> (Community,
> > Indy and Business):
> > A new Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions (MIME) library has been
> > implemented to provide support for common data formats such as multipart
> > email message bodies.
> >
> > - Implementation of a remote debugger (Business only):
> > Run a standalone for the local platform from the IDE and debug it whilst
> it
> > runs locally
> > Run a standalone for iOS or Android from the IDE and debug it whilst it
> > runs on a directly connected Android or iOS device
> >
> > - Implementation of a script profiler (Business only):
> > Use the new script profiler to identify the most costly lines of code in
> a
> > stack.
> >
> >
> > The full release notes are available from:
> >
> > http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_0_0/LiveCodeNotes-
> 9_0_0_dp_5.pdf
> >
> > Feedback
> > 
> > Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at
> > http://quality.livecode.com/
> >
> > We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
> > http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93
> >
> > Have fun!
> >
> > The LiveCode Team
> > --
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Ali Lloyd via use-livecode]

Richmond,
In general that is the case, yes. When for example 8.1.3 GM has been
released, we merge the branches all the way up so that the develop branch
(from which DPs are released) contains everything from that branch. In some
cases there may be things that are in earlier releases but not in a DP, but
very rarely, and I think it would only happen with regression fixes that
are specific to that earlier release.

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 6:26 AM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

I wish I could understand the way different "levels" come out
concurrently. Are we to assume
that all the new things in 8.1.3 are also bound into 9.0.0 DP-5?

Richmond.

On 2/23/17 10:41 pm, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:
> Dear list members,
>
> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-5.
>
>
> Developer Preview Release
> =
> Warning: this is not a stable release.  Please ensure that you back up
your
> stacks before testing them.
>
> Getting the Release
> ===
> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via
> the automatic updater.
>
> Release Contents
> 
> LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-5 contains exciting new features, bug fixes, stability
> and security improvements.
>
> In total, 21 bugs have been fixed since the last development preview
> release (LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-4).
>
> Moreover, 36 additional bugs that have been fixed for 8.1.4 RC-1 (which is
> not released yet), are included in LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-5.
>
> LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-5 contains, among others, the following exciting new
> features:
>
> - Implementation of NFC tag reading on Android (Community, Indy and
> Business):
> New functions/commands/messages to read data from NFC tags.
>
> - Implementation of a script library for common MIME functions (Community,
> Indy and Business):
> A new Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions (MIME) library has been
> implemented to provide support for common data formats such as multipart
> email message bodies.
>
> - Implementation of a remote debugger (Business only):
> Run a standalone for the local platform from the IDE and debug it whilst
it
> runs locally
> Run a standalone for iOS or Android from the IDE and debug it whilst it
> runs on a directly connected Android or iOS device
>
> - Implementation of a script profiler (Business only):
> Use the new script profiler to identify the most costly lines of code in a
> stack.
>
>
> The full release notes are available from:
>
> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_0_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_0_0_dp_5.pdf
>
> Feedback
> 
> Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at
> http://quality.livecode.com/
>
> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93
>
> Have fun!
>
> The LiveCode Team
> --
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[AndyP via use-livecode]

Apart from all the other changes, Its great to see Android getting some
updates and attention.

A big well done to the team!



-
Andy Piddock 


My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. 

TinyIDE a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode
TinyIDE 


Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk  

PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / 
finder.
http://www.pointandsee.co.uk  - made with LiveCode
--
View this message in context: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-Release-9-0-0-DP-5-tp4712530p4712571.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

I wish I could understand the way different "levels" come out 
concurrently. Are we to assume

that all the new things in 8.1.3 are also bound into 9.0.0 DP-5?

Richmond.

On 2/23/17 10:41 pm, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-5.


Developer Preview Release
=
Warning: this is not a stable release.  Please ensure that you back up your
stacks before testing them.

Getting the Release
===
You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via
the automatic updater.

Release Contents

LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-5 contains exciting new features, bug fixes, stability
and security improvements.

In total, 21 bugs have been fixed since the last development preview
release (LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-4).

Moreover, 36 additional bugs that have been fixed for 8.1.4 RC-1 (which is
not released yet), are included in LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-5.

LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-5 contains, among others, the following exciting new
features:

- Implementation of NFC tag reading on Android (Community, Indy and
Business):
New functions/commands/messages to read data from NFC tags.

- Implementation of a script library for common MIME functions (Community,
Indy and Business):
A new Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions (MIME) library has been
implemented to provide support for common data formats such as multipart
email message bodies.

- Implementation of a remote debugger (Business only):
Run a standalone for the local platform from the IDE and debug it whilst it
runs locally
Run a standalone for iOS or Android from the IDE and debug it whilst it
runs on a directly connected Android or iOS device

- Implementation of a script profiler (Business only):
Use the new script profiler to identify the most costly lines of code in a
stack.


The full release notes are available from:

http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_0_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_0_0_dp_5.pdf

Feedback

Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at
http://quality.livecode.com/

We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93

Have fun!

The LiveCode Team
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:

> @Richard who wrote:
>
> "for deployment -- most recent stable…"
> "for dev -- most recent build, know current state of engine as
> pertains to your work."
>
> How logical!  thanks… assuming there is no change in file format and
> stacks are backward compatible, that makes good sense.

v8.1 and v9 share the same format.

But even when there is a format change, the team's done a good job of 
providing save-as going back at least a decade's worth of older formats.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

@ Bob (who wrote)

   " Do you suggest that all development and improvement for version 8 and that 
we all wait for certain bugs to be addressed in the next major release? That 
would be unfortunate. Already since the earlier versions of 8, there have been 
marked improvements and bug fixes, such as much faster search times and an 
order of magnitude faster Build times."

Not at all. But for those of us who are

a) making a major move to script only (stacks, libs, behaviors) 
b) struggling with de-bugging on mobile

9 DP5 has us, as Mike says "drooling"

@Richard who wrote: 

"for deployment -- most recent stable…"
"for dev -- most recent build, know current state of engine as pertains to your 
work."

How logical!  thanks… assuming there is no change in file format and stacks are 
backward compatible, that makes good sense.

I have backups everywhere, so I'm off with 9DP5

Congrats to the team at HQ

BR

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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Probably a typo, but shouldn't the backslash be INSIDE the quotes in the 
example for Specifying local host and port when opening a socket? 

Bob S



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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Monte Goulding via use-livecode]

> On 24 Feb 2017, at 9:42 am, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Another question:  Does the mobile have to be tethered to the desktop?  If
> I build a standalone, how are we going to communicate?

They communicate via sockets so no it doesn’t need to be tethered.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Jim Lambert via use-livecode]

LC Team,

Congratulations and many thanks for this feature-packed release.
Brilliant!

Jim Lambert

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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:

> Why even continue in 8.*   ?
>
> What issues are there with 9.* that would make it advisable not to
> try it for production?

For deployment it's usually best to use the most recent Stable build.

But for development it's usually best to use the most recent build of 
any designation so you know the current state of the engine as it 
pertains to your work.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I'm drooling.  I once told Kevin that about half of the lines of code in my
mobile apps wind up being debugging code (granted the end up being
commented out, eventually, but I digress).  The biggest issue on mobile has
always been debugging.  I even have a debugging library that I have added
to all my mobiles to help me figure out what is going on when something
doesn't work.  The silent fails dog me even now.  This...this is going to
make the debugging task a lot easier.

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 4:59 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> First of all this is a Developer Preview. Note the, "This is not a stable
> release" disclaimer. Consider also that some may be unwilling to move to
> version 9 until such a time as they feel confident that most of the issues
> have been shaken out of it. I am one of these.
>
> Do you suggest that all development and improvement for version 8 and that
> we all wait for certain bugs to be addressed in the next major release?
> That would be unfortunate. Already since the earlier versions of 8, there
> have been marked improvements and bug fixes, such as much faster search
> times and an order of magnitude faster Build times.
>
> So long as version 8 is supported, I think we can expect (and be thankful)
> that the LC dev team is constantly improving. And also, I suspect that any
> new features introduced and bugs squashed in 8 are also being rolled into
> 9. It's not an either or proposition.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Feb 23, 2017, at 13:35 , Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I'm behind here in the overview:
> >
> > Why even continue in 8.*   ?
> >
> > What issues are there with 9.* that would make it advisable not to try
> it for production?
> >
> > BR
>
>
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On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Another question:  Does the mobile have to be tethered to the desktop?  If
I build a standalone, how are we going to communicate?

Did you guys also see that we will have a regular message box context with
the app?  That's just one less thing I have to include with my stack (and
then use the mobile keyboard to accomplish...)

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 5:13 PM, Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> I'm drooling.  I once told Kevin that about half of the lines of code in
> my mobile apps wind up being debugging code (granted the end up being
> commented out, eventually, but I digress).  The biggest issue on mobile has
> always been debugging.  I even have a debugging library that I have added
> to all my mobiles to help me figure out what is going on when something
> doesn't work.  The silent fails dog me even now.  This...this is going to
> make the debugging task a lot easier.
>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 4:59 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> First of all this is a Developer Preview. Note the, "This is not a stable
>> release" disclaimer. Consider also that some may be unwilling to move to
>> version 9 until such a time as they feel confident that most of the issues
>> have been shaken out of it. I am one of these.
>>
>> Do you suggest that all development and improvement for version 8 and
>> that we all wait for certain bugs to be addressed in the next major
>> release? That would be unfortunate. Already since the earlier versions of
>> 8, there have been marked improvements and bug fixes, such as much faster
>> search times and an order of magnitude faster Build times.
>>
>> So long as version 8 is supported, I think we can expect (and be
>> thankful) that the LC dev team is constantly improving. And also, I suspect
>> that any new features introduced and bugs squashed in 8 are also being
>> rolled into 9. It's not an either or proposition.
>>
>> Bob S
>>
>>
>> > On Feb 23, 2017, at 13:35 , Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
>>  wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm behind here in the overview:
>> >
>> > Why even continue in 8.*   ?
>> >
>> > What issues are there with 9.* that would make it advisable not to try
>> it for production?
>> >
>> > BR
>>
>>
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>> subscription preferences:
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

First of all this is a Developer Preview. Note the, "This is not a stable 
release" disclaimer. Consider also that some may be unwilling to move to 
version 9 until such a time as they feel confident that most of the issues have 
been shaken out of it. I am one of these. 

Do you suggest that all development and improvement for version 8 and that we 
all wait for certain bugs to be addressed in the next major release? That would 
be unfortunate. Already since the earlier versions of 8, there have been marked 
improvements and bug fixes, such as much faster search times and an order of 
magnitude faster Build times. 

So long as version 8 is supported, I think we can expect (and be thankful) that 
the LC dev team is constantly improving. And also, I suspect that any new 
features introduced and bugs squashed in 8 are also being rolled into 9. It's 
not an either or proposition. 

Bob S


> On Feb 23, 2017, at 13:35 , Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm behind here in the overview:
> 
> Why even continue in 8.*   ?  
> 
> What issues are there with 9.* that would make it advisable not to try it for 
> production?
> 
> BR


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Re: [ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

I'm behind here in the overview:

Why even continue in 8.*   ?  

What issues are there with 9.* that would make it advisable not to try it for 
production?

BR


On 2/23/17, 10:41 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of panagiotis merakos via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-5.


Developer Preview Release
=
Warning: this is not a stable release.  Please ensure that you back up your
stacks before testing them.

Getting the Release
===
You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via
the automatic updater.

Release Contents

LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-5 contains exciting new features, bug fixes, stability
and security improvements.

In total, 21 bugs have been fixed since the last development preview
release (LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-4).

Moreover, 36 additional bugs that have been fixed for 8.1.4 RC-1 (which is
not released yet), are included in LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-5.

LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-5 contains, among others, the following exciting new
features:

- Implementation of NFC tag reading on Android (Community, Indy and
Business):
New functions/commands/messages to read data from NFC tags.

- Implementation of a script library for common MIME functions (Community,
Indy and Business):
A new Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions (MIME) library has been
implemented to provide support for common data formats such as multipart
email message bodies.

- Implementation of a remote debugger (Business only):
Run a standalone for the local platform from the IDE and debug it whilst it
runs locally
Run a standalone for iOS or Android from the IDE and debug it whilst it
runs on a directly connected Android or iOS device

- Implementation of a script profiler (Business only):
Use the new script profiler to identify the most costly lines of code in a
stack.


The full release notes are available from:

http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_0_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_0_0_dp_5.pdf

Feedback

Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at
http://quality.livecode.com/

We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93

Have fun!

The LiveCode Team
--
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[ANN] Release 9.0.0 DP-5

[panagiotis merakos via use-livecode]

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-5.


Developer Preview Release
=
Warning: this is not a stable release.  Please ensure that you back up your
stacks before testing them.

Getting the Release
===
You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via
the automatic updater.

Release Contents

LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-5 contains exciting new features, bug fixes, stability
and security improvements.

In total, 21 bugs have been fixed since the last development preview
release (LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-4).

Moreover, 36 additional bugs that have been fixed for 8.1.4 RC-1 (which is
not released yet), are included in LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-5.

LiveCode 9.0.0 DP-5 contains, among others, the following exciting new
features:

- Implementation of NFC tag reading on Android (Community, Indy and
Business):
New functions/commands/messages to read data from NFC tags.

- Implementation of a script library for common MIME functions (Community,
Indy and Business):
A new Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions (MIME) library has been
implemented to provide support for common data formats such as multipart
email message bodies.

- Implementation of a remote debugger (Business only):
Run a standalone for the local platform from the IDE and debug it whilst it
runs locally
Run a standalone for iOS or Android from the IDE and debug it whilst it
runs on a directly connected Android or iOS device

- Implementation of a script profiler (Business only):
Use the new script profiler to identify the most costly lines of code in a
stack.


The full release notes are available from:

http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_0_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_0_0_dp_5.pdf

Feedback

Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at
http://quality.livecode.com/

We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93

Have fun!

The LiveCode Team
--
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