Re: 3WDevolution question

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 09/10/2018 08:12 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

All my apps do this, but typically, unless the developer has a bug up his butt 
about the old fullscreen method, if you hold the option key down while clicking 
the green maximize control, it should work like the old way. There is an option 
in preferences too I think to switch back to the old way by default.


Developers will sometimes put in new features in such a way that you have to do 
something to NOT use them. This is a perfect example. Microsoft's Ribbons is 
another. Apple *could* have added the fullscreen feature but informed us that 
you have to hold the option key down to do it. Instead they did the reverse. 
Their thinking is probably that if they don't force people to use a new 
feature, they probably won't. Very likely. On the other hand, I don't feel 
developers should take the liberty of changing how I work on *my* computer, 
without having a really good reason for doing so.



Fullscreen mode for a stack on osx seems more like kiosk mode. I'd 
expect that fullscreen would maximize the stack, the way it does on 
other platforms, and the way other applications work, and that kiosk 
mode would be a more specialized when you really don't want a menubar 
appearing at the top of the screen.


But then if I wanted some control over my environment I'd use linux.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

All my apps do this, but typically, unless the developer has a bug up his butt 
about the old fullscreen method, if you hold the option key down while clicking 
the green maximize control, it should work like the old way. There is an option 
in preferences too I think to switch back to the old way by default. 


Developers will sometimes put in new features in such a way that you have to do 
something to NOT use them. This is a perfect example. Microsoft's Ribbons is 
another. Apple *could* have added the fullscreen feature but informed us that 
you have to hold the option key down to do it. Instead they did the reverse. 
Their thinking is probably that if they don't force people to use a new 
feature, they probably won't. Very likely. On the other hand, I don't feel 
developers should take the liberty of changing how I work on *my* computer, 
without having a really good reason for doing so. 


Bob S


> On Sep 8, 2018, at 09:13 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> Put the mouse at the top of screen to display menubar or type escape at the 
>> keyboard
> 
> Doh! Thanks. I had tried escape but didn't move the mouse up to the top. I 
> imagine there must be precedent for this, but none of my other osx 
> applications work this way (maximizing while removing the title bar). The 
> stack decorations are set to default.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[Klaus major-k via use-livecode]

Hi Mark,

> Am 08.09.2018 um 18:23 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
> :
> On 09/08/2018 09:13 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
 Noob question :) I tried this on osx and maximized a stack. It took over 
 the whole screen. Now how do I unmaximize it? There's no title bar. That 
 just seems wrong.
>>> Put the mouse at the top of screen to display menubar or type escape at the 
>>> keyboard
>> ESCAPE does not work for LC stacks.
>> If you clicked the green button and the stack goes "fullscreen", then:
>> ...
>> put the fullscreen of stack "the one that currently occupies the complete 
>> screen"
>> ...
>> You get FALSE?
>> Not sure if this is correct!?
>> If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck etc... :-)
> But moving the mouse to the top does display the stack's title bar. And then 
> you can click the green unmaximize button to restore the stack.

yes, I know, but that was not really my question.

> Quack!

Quack yourself, my little drake! :-D

> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
kl...@major-k.de


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 09/08/2018 09:13 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:


Noob question :) I tried this on osx and maximized a stack. It took over the 
whole screen. Now how do I unmaximize it? There's no title bar. That just seems 
wrong.


Put the mouse at the top of screen to display menubar or type escape at the 
keyboard


ESCAPE does not work for LC stacks.

If you clicked the green button and the stack goes "fullscreen", then:
...
put the fullscreen of stack "the one that currently occupies the complete 
screen"
...
You get FALSE?
Not sure if this is correct!?

If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck etc... :-)


But moving the mouse to the top does display the stack's title bar. And 
then you can click the green unmaximize button to restore the stack.


Quack!

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[Klaus major-k via use-livecode]

HI all,

> Am 08.09.2018 um 18:05 schrieb Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> 
>> Le 8 sept. 2018 à 18:03, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>>  a écrit :
>> 
>> On 09/07/2018 10:20 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
>> 
 Mac is somewhat different.  If you click the maximize control then you go
>>> into full screen mode for that window (no title bar, no menu, no dock).
>>> Palettes still appear over it (tools, Devolution, Navigator, DevTools, but
>>> not the menu button bar).  You have to hold the option key when clicking
>>> the green dot to get the old behavior (which puts a `+` in it).  Even then,
>>> it fills the entire screen (except it does not cover the dock).  Same
>>> palette situation.
>> 
>> Noob question :) I tried this on osx and maximized a stack. It took over the 
>> whole screen. Now how do I unmaximize it? There's no title bar. That just 
>> seems wrong.
> 
> Put the mouse at the top of screen to display menubar or type escape at the 
> keyboard 

ESCAPE does not work for LC stacks.

If you clicked the green button and the stack goes "fullscreen", then:
...
put the fullscreen of stack "the one that currently occupies the complete 
screen"
...
You get FALSE? 
Not sure if this is correct!?

If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck etc... :-)


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
kl...@major-k.de


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 09/08/2018 09:05 AM, Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode wrote:


Put the mouse at the top of screen to display menubar or type escape at the 
keyboard


Doh! Thanks. I had tried escape but didn't move the mouse up to the top. 
I imagine there must be precedent for this, but none of my other osx 
applications work this way (maximizing while removing the title bar). 
The stack decorations are set to default.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode]

> Le 8 sept. 2018 à 18:03, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  a écrit :
> 
> On 09/07/2018 10:20 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
> 
>>> Mac is somewhat different.  If you click the maximize control then you go
>> into full screen mode for that window (no title bar, no menu, no dock).
>> Palettes still appear over it (tools, Devolution, Navigator, DevTools, but
>> not the menu button bar).  You have to hold the option key when clicking
>> the green dot to get the old behavior (which puts a `+` in it).  Even then,
>> it fills the entire screen (except it does not cover the dock).  Same
>> palette situation.
> 
> Noob question :) I tried this on osx and maximized a stack. It took over the 
> whole screen. Now how do I unmaximize it? There's no title bar. That just 
> seems wrong.

Put the mouse at the top of screen to display menubar or type escape at the 
keyboard 
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 09/07/2018 10:20 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:


Mac is somewhat different.  If you click the maximize control then you go

into full screen mode for that window (no title bar, no menu, no dock).
Palettes still appear over it (tools, Devolution, Navigator, DevTools, but
not the menu button bar).  You have to hold the option key when clicking
the green dot to get the old behavior (which puts a `+` in it).  Even then,
it fills the entire screen (except it does not cover the dock).  Same
palette situation.


Noob question :) I tried this on osx and maximized a stack. It took over 
the whole screen. Now how do I unmaximize it? There's no title bar. That 
just seems wrong.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[prothero--- via use-livecode]

Frankly, I would prefer the ide tools palette and the Devo tools palette 
overlap at will. One or the other can be in front, overlapped or not.  I 
generally only use the ide tools when creating UI objects, so most of the time 
it’s invisible.

Currently, to get the Devo palette to go as far left as I want, I just drag the 
IDE tools palette to center screen, then back. 

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Sep 7, 2018, at 9:44 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Brian Milby wrote:
> 
> > FWIW...
> > I see the same thing on Mac where Devolution will not move past the
> > tool palette.
> 
> More interestingly, when you see the windowBoundingRect altered by the 
> placement of the IDE's tool palette, does a maximized window respect the new 
> windowBoundingRect as it does on Windows, or ignore it as it does on Linux?
> 
> 
> > One possible solution would be to add the rect of Devolution to the
> > prefs and restore regardless of the bounding rect. This would allow
> > the tool palette to be positioned over Devolution since you probably
> > only actively use one at a time (if desired anyway).
> 
> I could add all sorts of additional geometry for the edge case in which 
> someone wants to have both the devo window and the tool palette open at the 
> same time AND in a position which prevents use of one or the other
> 
> Or the IDE team could just not monkey with the windowBoundingRect based on 
> the occasional position of a single window which is different from what 
> happens in other positions, different from what happens in other windows, and 
> different from what happens in other apps.
> 
> Which would seem more beneficial for the larger number of LC scripters?
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 11:45 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Brian Milby wrote:
>
>  > FWIW...
>  > I see the same thing on Mac where Devolution will not move past the
>  > tool palette.
>
> More interestingly, when you see the windowBoundingRect altered by the
> placement of the IDE's tool palette, does a maximized window respect the
> new windowBoundingRect as it does on Windows, or ignore it as it does on
> Linux?
>
> Mac is somewhat different.  If you click the maximize control then you go
into full screen mode for that window (no title bar, no menu, no dock).
Palettes still appear over it (tools, Devolution, Navigator, DevTools, but
not the menu button bar).  You have to hold the option key when clicking
the green dot to get the old behavior (which puts a `+` in it).  Even then,
it fills the entire screen (except it does not cover the dock).  Same
palette situation.

>
>  > One possible solution would be to add the rect of Devolution to the
>  > prefs and restore regardless of the bounding rect. This would allow
>  > the tool palette to be positioned over Devolution since you probably
>  > only actively use one at a time (if desired anyway).
>
> I could add all sorts of additional geometry for the edge case in which
> someone wants to have both the devo window and the tool palette open at
> the same time AND in a position which prevents use of one or the other
>
> Or the IDE team could just not monkey with the windowBoundingRect based
> on the occasional position of a single window which is different from
> what happens in other positions, different from what happens in other
> windows, and different from what happens in other apps.
>
> Which would seem more beneficial for the larger number of LC scripters?
>
> I was mainly talking about saving the position between launches like the
tools palette does.  I ended up putting the stack toplevel and moving to
get it where I wanted and then saving.  On my Linux VM, due to the screen
size, I put it on the extreme right at the top (which due to the bug you
filed, allows me to move it up to the top currently - next to the menu bar).

When just testing, I relaunched LC and was able to move Devolution wherever
I wanted (even over the menu button bar).  I promptly put it all the way to
the left and saved it :)

I agree that the boundingrect stuff is a little frustrating.  It's not like
the menu goes edge to edge nor does the tool palette go top to bottom of
the screen.

Thanks,
Brian
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Brian Milby wrote:

> FWIW...
> I see the same thing on Mac where Devolution will not move past the
> tool palette.

More interestingly, when you see the windowBoundingRect altered by the 
placement of the IDE's tool palette, does a maximized window respect the 
new windowBoundingRect as it does on Windows, or ignore it as it does on 
Linux?



> One possible solution would be to add the rect of Devolution to the
> prefs and restore regardless of the bounding rect. This would allow
> the tool palette to be positioned over Devolution since you probably
> only actively use one at a time (if desired anyway).

I could add all sorts of additional geometry for the edge case in which 
someone wants to have both the devo window and the tool palette open at 
the same time AND in a position which prevents use of one or the other


Or the IDE team could just not monkey with the windowBoundingRect based 
on the occasional position of a single window which is different from 
what happens in other positions, different from what happens in other 
windows, and different from what happens in other apps.


Which would seem more beneficial for the larger number of LC scripters?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

FWIW...
I see the same thing on Mac where Devolution will not move past the tool 
palette.

One possible solution would be to add the rect of Devolution to the prefs and 
restore regardless of the bounding rect. This would allow the tool palette to 
be positioned over Devolution since you probably only actively use one at a 
time (if desired anyway).

Thanks,
Brian
On Sep 7, 2018, 9:57 PM -0500, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> Mark Wieder wrote:
>
> > On 09/06/2018 07:10 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> >
> > > Maximize a window when the tool palette is flush left, then restore,
> > > then try again after the palette has been moved more toward screen
> > > center. The changes the IDE makes to the windowBoundingRect should
> > > be evident with that recipe on all platforms.
> >
> > All right. I see that, although I had to pull PowerTools out of the
> > way to see the problem, since it only affects the built-in tools
> > palette. I didn't see a problem with maximizing a stack, but
> > devolution wouldn't move to the left past the right border of the
> > tools palette. Are you seeing maximized stacks also being affected
> > by this?
>
> Not on Linux. :)
>
> It seems an old bug has regressed - I've filed a new report:
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21574
>
> While the windowBoundingRect is currently ignored for standard style
> windows on Linux, on MS Windows 10 the maximize behavior works as
> expected, constrained withing the rect specified in that property. I
> haven't checked on Mac, but assumed it hasn't broken there; if anyone
> finds that it has feel free to add a note to that effect in the report.
>
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Mark Wieder wrote:

> On 09/06/2018 07:10 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> Maximize a window when the tool palette is flush left, then restore,
>> then try again after the palette has been moved more toward screen
>> center.  The changes the IDE makes to the windowBoundingRect should
>> be evident with that recipe on all platforms.
>
> All right. I see that, although I had to pull PowerTools out of the
> way to see the problem, since it only affects the built-in tools
> palette. I didn't see a problem with maximizing a stack, but
> devolution wouldn't move to the left past the right border of the
> tools palette. Are you seeing maximized stacks also being affected
> by this?

Not on Linux. :)

It seems an old bug has regressed - I've filed a new report:
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21574

While the windowBoundingRect is currently ignored for standard style 
windows on Linux, on MS Windows 10 the maximize behavior works as 
expected, constrained withing the rect specified in that property.  I 
haven't checked on Mac, but assumed it hasn't broken there; if anyone 
finds that it has feel free to add a note to that effect in the report.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 09/06/2018 07:10 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

Maximize a window when the tool palette is flush left, then restore, 
then try again after the palette has been moved more toward screen 
center.  The changes the IDE makes to the windowBoundingRect should be 
evident with that recipe on all platforms.


All right. I see that, although I had to pull PowerTools out of the way 
to see the problem, since it only affects the built-in tools palette. I 
didn't see a problem with maximizing a stack, but devolution wouldn't 
move to the left past the right border of the tools palette. Are you 
seeing maximized stacks also being affected by this?


If others feel strongly that the windowBoundingRect should not be 
dynamically altered based on the position of a floating palette they're 
welcome to report it.  I generally limit my own reports to engine issues 
beyond my ability to correct for, or things frequently raised by 
newcomers in the forums.


Afaict this only affects devolution, and only the built-in tools palette 
seems to be the culprit, so I don't care much one way or the other.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 09/06/2018 01:15 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

I see what's happening there.  It appears the IDE team is attempting to 
use a floating palette in a highly unusual way: rather than floating on 
top of a document, it's assumed to be placed at the left and when it is 
the windowBoundingRect is adjusted so that no other windows can be 
placed in a way that overlap it.  When the tool palette is moved to any 
other location sufficiently away from the left edge, the 
windowBoundingRect is apparently restore to the normal bounds everyone 
normally expects.


You will find that the IDE's change to the windowBoundingRect affects 
all windows when using the maximize option for a window.


This affects the dragging of 4W devolution's window because I have a 
customized appearance with my own title bar, and have scripted the 
dragging behavior to account for the windowBoundingRect so the window 
cannot be submarined beneath the menu bar or the Dock.


Interesting. I haven't used the tools palette for many years, but I see 
no strange interactions between PowerTools and Devolution either on 
linux or on osx. Is the built-in tools palette doing something it 
shouldn't be doing then? That sounds worthy of a bug report.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

Richard,
Thanks for looking into this. My problem came when the Devo palette wouldn’t 
move to the left, even if the IDE tools palette was closed. But, it’s easy to 
fix by just moving the IDE Tools palette to the right until it lets me move the 
Devo palette to the left, then it no longer snaps right.

No worries, it’s just an idiosyncrasy that’s easily dealt with.
Best,
Bill

> On Sep 6, 2018, at 1:15 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> William Prothero wrote:
> 
> > Richard:
> > Here’s what I found on the palette thing. I’m no longer worried about
> > the backdrop because it was just me not seeing that there was a LC
> > toolbar menu item that would turn it off. In fact, I may have been
> > blaming Devo incorrectly, when it was LC’s responsibility.
> >
> > If you, in 9.0.1 RC 2 or 3, drag the 4W toolbar to the right, lift the
> > mouse, then drag it back to the left, I see it refusing to be dragged
> > fully to the left. In LC 8.2.0, it acts normally, but in  LC 9.0.1
> > RC3, it won’t return all the way left. It seems like it’s trying to
> > leave space for the IDE Tools palette, but it doesn’t matter whether
> > it’s visible or not.
> 
> I see what's happening there.  It appears the IDE team is attempting to use a 
> floating palette in a highly unusual way: rather than floating on top of a 
> document, it's assumed to be placed at the left and when it is the 
> windowBoundingRect is adjusted so that no other windows can be placed in a 
> way that overlap it.  When the tool palette is moved to any other location 
> sufficiently away from the left edge, the windowBoundingRect is apparently 
> restore to the normal bounds everyone normally expects.
> 


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

William Prothero wrote:

> Richard:
> Here’s what I found on the palette thing. I’m no longer worried about
> the backdrop because it was just me not seeing that there was a LC
> toolbar menu item that would turn it off. In fact, I may have been
> blaming Devo incorrectly, when it was LC’s responsibility.
>
> If you, in 9.0.1 RC 2 or 3, drag the 4W toolbar to the right, lift the
> mouse, then drag it back to the left, I see it refusing to be dragged
> fully to the left. In LC 8.2.0, it acts normally, but in  LC 9.0.1
> RC3, it won’t return all the way left. It seems like it’s trying to
> leave space for the IDE Tools palette, but it doesn’t matter whether
> it’s visible or not.

I see what's happening there.  It appears the IDE team is attempting to 
use a floating palette in a highly unusual way: rather than floating on 
top of a document, it's assumed to be placed at the left and when it is 
the windowBoundingRect is adjusted so that no other windows can be 
placed in a way that overlap it.  When the tool palette is moved to any 
other location sufficiently away from the left edge, the 
windowBoundingRect is apparently restore to the normal bounds everyone 
normally expects.


You will find that the IDE's change to the windowBoundingRect affects 
all windows when using the maximize option for a window.


This affects the dragging of 4W devolution's window because I have a 
customized appearance with my own title bar, and have scripted the 
dragging behavior to account for the windowBoundingRect so the window 
cannot be submarined beneath the menu bar or the Dock.


In my own work, I spend relatively little time with the IDE's tool 
palette open. Layout normally occupies just a bit of up-front time, with 
most of my time spend scripting the objects I'd laid out.  And of course 
since the devo palette has its own controls for creating the two most 
commonly-used objects, buttons and fields, sometimes I go weeks without 
ever opening the IDE's tool palette at all.


And since devo makes it more convenient to open and close the IDE's tool 
palette with its generously-sized toggle buttons for the most common IDE 
windows, I find that when I do use the IDE's tool palette it's just to 
create an object or two and then I put it away again until I need it. 
It takes up a LOT of room for something used so seldom during the 
workflow; making it easy to access it ONLY WHEN I NEED IT was part of 
the motivation for making devo.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 http://fourthworld.com/products/devolution/



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[prothero--- via use-livecode]

I do have 2 monitors. It started to appear in LC 9.0.1
Bill

William Prothero
http://ed.earthednet.org

> On Sep 5, 2018, at 8:56 AM, Mark Talluto via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Multi-monitor issue?
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Mark Talluto
> livecloud.io 
> nursenotes.net 
> canelasoftware.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:41 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Richard:
>> I’ve been playing around with this and noticed that if i move the IDE tools 
>> palette to the right far enough, the 4WDevo palette will move as far to the 
>> left as I want. So that tells me there is some interaction between the IDE 
>> tools palette and the 4W palette.
>> 
>> Again, if you can’t make it happen, I can live with it, especially now that 
>> I’ve played with it a bit more. It’s really pretty minor.
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:27 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Richard:
>>> Here’s what I found on the palette thing. I’m no longer worried about the 
>>> backdrop because it was just me not seeing that there was a LC toolbar menu 
>>> item that would turn it off. In fact, I may have been blaming Devo 
>>> incorrectly, when it was LC’s responsibility.
>>> 
>>> If you, in 9.0.1 RC 2 or 3, drag the 4W toolbar to the right, lift the 
>>> mouse, then drag it back to the left, I see it refusing to be dragged fully 
>>> to the left. In LC 8.2.0, it acts normally, but in  LC 9.0.1 RC3, it won’t 
>>> return all the way left. It seems like it’s trying to leave space for the 
>>> IDE Tools palette, but it doesn’t matter whether it’s visible or not.
>>> 
>>> Richard, I can live with this. I’m on a Mac. It should be very easy to 
>>> replicate, if it’s happening on your computer. I wonder if there was some 
>>> change in the messaging in 9.0.1 versions that causes this.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Bill
>>> 
 On Sep 4, 2018, at 8:12 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 William Prothero wrote:
 
> Folks (Richard?):
> Ok, I know this is really easy, I did it when I first installed it,
> and I’m probably just not seeing something, but ……..
> 
> I’m on Apple, 10.13.3 and LC 9.0.1
> 
> How do I get rid of the white background that covers the desktop when
> 4WDevolution is launched? I have gotten used to Devolution and like
> it, but it has become a bit annoying lately.
 
 Thanks for writing, Bill.  I got your email as well, still catching up
 on my In Box after the long holiday weekend.  Replying here is just as 
 good.
 
 4W devo does not alter the IDE's backdrop settings.  And unfortunately,
 I'm not able to reproduce that here.
 
 If you open LC's Prefs you should be able to turn off the backdrop from
 there.
 
 If you have any other details which might help me reproduce that I'll be
 happy to see what I can do, but AFAIK there are no interactions between
 4W devo's prefs and LC's.
 
 
 
> Second question: Since 9.0.1 RC1 of livecode, the 4WDevo tool palette
> will not stay on the left side. It is exactly offset to show both the
> LCE tools palette and the 4WDevo tools palette. But, if I want to
> toggle between them, having it offset is a pain. I can move it over
> using the Desktop feature of 4WDevo, but then it pops back to the
> right after clicking on the 4WDevo palette. Or, just drag it to the
> right, then it won’t drag back to the left where it started.
 
 Another oddity that I'm afraid I can't reproduce.  But then again, I
 spend relatively little time in LC with the IDE's Tool Palette open.
 I'll play around with it and see what I can find.  If you come up with a
 step-by-step recipe for me to follow that would help.
 
 Thanks for the report.
 
 -- 
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
 
 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> 

Re: 3WDevolution question

[Mark Talluto via use-livecode]

Multi-monitor issue?


Best regards,

Mark Talluto
livecloud.io 
nursenotes.net 
canelasoftware.com 




> On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:41 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Richard:
> I’ve been playing around with this and noticed that if i move the IDE tools 
> palette to the right far enough, the 4WDevo palette will move as far to the 
> left as I want. So that tells me there is some interaction between the IDE 
> tools palette and the 4W palette.
> 
> Again, if you can’t make it happen, I can live with it, especially now that 
> I’ve played with it a bit more. It’s really pretty minor.
> Best,
> Bill
> 
>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:27 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Richard:
>> Here’s what I found on the palette thing. I’m no longer worried about the 
>> backdrop because it was just me not seeing that there was a LC toolbar menu 
>> item that would turn it off. In fact, I may have been blaming Devo 
>> incorrectly, when it was LC’s responsibility.
>> 
>> If you, in 9.0.1 RC 2 or 3, drag the 4W toolbar to the right, lift the 
>> mouse, then drag it back to the left, I see it refusing to be dragged fully 
>> to the left. In LC 8.2.0, it acts normally, but in  LC 9.0.1 RC3, it won’t 
>> return all the way left. It seems like it’s trying to leave space for the 
>> IDE Tools palette, but it doesn’t matter whether it’s visible or not.
>> 
>> Richard, I can live with this. I’m on a Mac. It should be very easy to 
>> replicate, if it’s happening on your computer. I wonder if there was some 
>> change in the messaging in 9.0.1 versions that causes this.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 8:12 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> William Prothero wrote:
>>> 
 Folks (Richard?):
 Ok, I know this is really easy, I did it when I first installed it,
 and I’m probably just not seeing something, but ……..
 
 I’m on Apple, 10.13.3 and LC 9.0.1
 
 How do I get rid of the white background that covers the desktop when
 4WDevolution is launched? I have gotten used to Devolution and like
 it, but it has become a bit annoying lately.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for writing, Bill.  I got your email as well, still catching up
>>> on my In Box after the long holiday weekend.  Replying here is just as good.
>>> 
>>> 4W devo does not alter the IDE's backdrop settings.  And unfortunately,
>>> I'm not able to reproduce that here.
>>> 
>>> If you open LC's Prefs you should be able to turn off the backdrop from
>>> there.
>>> 
>>> If you have any other details which might help me reproduce that I'll be
>>> happy to see what I can do, but AFAIK there are no interactions between
>>> 4W devo's prefs and LC's.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 Second question: Since 9.0.1 RC1 of livecode, the 4WDevo tool palette
 will not stay on the left side. It is exactly offset to show both the
 LCE tools palette and the 4WDevo tools palette. But, if I want to
 toggle between them, having it offset is a pain. I can move it over
 using the Desktop feature of 4WDevo, but then it pops back to the
 right after clicking on the 4WDevo palette. Or, just drag it to the
 right, then it won’t drag back to the left where it started.
>>> 
>>> Another oddity that I'm afraid I can't reproduce.  But then again, I
>>> spend relatively little time in LC with the IDE's Tool Palette open.
>>> I'll play around with it and see what I can find.  If you come up with a
>>> step-by-step recipe for me to follow that would help.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the report.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Richard Gaskin
>>> Fourth World Systems
>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>>> 
>>> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

Richard:
I’ve been playing around with this and noticed that if i move the IDE tools 
palette to the right far enough, the 4WDevo palette will move as far to the 
left as I want. So that tells me there is some interaction between the IDE 
tools palette and the 4W palette.

Again, if you can’t make it happen, I can live with it, especially now that 
I’ve played with it a bit more. It’s really pretty minor.
Best,
Bill

> On Sep 4, 2018, at 10:27 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Richard:
> Here’s what I found on the palette thing. I’m no longer worried about the 
> backdrop because it was just me not seeing that there was a LC toolbar menu 
> item that would turn it off. In fact, I may have been blaming Devo 
> incorrectly, when it was LC’s responsibility.
> 
> If you, in 9.0.1 RC 2 or 3, drag the 4W toolbar to the right, lift the mouse, 
> then drag it back to the left, I see it refusing to be dragged fully to the 
> left. In LC 8.2.0, it acts normally, but in  LC 9.0.1 RC3, it won’t return 
> all the way left. It seems like it’s trying to leave space for the IDE Tools 
> palette, but it doesn’t matter whether it’s visible or not.
> 
> Richard, I can live with this. I’m on a Mac. It should be very easy to 
> replicate, if it’s happening on your computer. I wonder if there was some 
> change in the messaging in 9.0.1 versions that causes this.
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
>> On Sep 4, 2018, at 8:12 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> William Prothero wrote:
>> 
>>> Folks (Richard?):
>>> Ok, I know this is really easy, I did it when I first installed it,
>>> and I’m probably just not seeing something, but ……..
>>> 
>>> I’m on Apple, 10.13.3 and LC 9.0.1
>>> 
>>> How do I get rid of the white background that covers the desktop when
>>> 4WDevolution is launched? I have gotten used to Devolution and like
>>> it, but it has become a bit annoying lately.
>> 
>> Thanks for writing, Bill.  I got your email as well, still catching up
>> on my In Box after the long holiday weekend.  Replying here is just as good.
>> 
>> 4W devo does not alter the IDE's backdrop settings.  And unfortunately,
>> I'm not able to reproduce that here.
>> 
>> If you open LC's Prefs you should be able to turn off the backdrop from
>> there.
>> 
>> If you have any other details which might help me reproduce that I'll be
>> happy to see what I can do, but AFAIK there are no interactions between
>> 4W devo's prefs and LC's.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Second question: Since 9.0.1 RC1 of livecode, the 4WDevo tool palette
>>> will not stay on the left side. It is exactly offset to show both the
>>> LCE tools palette and the 4WDevo tools palette. But, if I want to
>>> toggle between them, having it offset is a pain. I can move it over
>>> using the Desktop feature of 4WDevo, but then it pops back to the
>>> right after clicking on the 4WDevo palette. Or, just drag it to the
>>> right, then it won’t drag back to the left where it started.
>> 
>> Another oddity that I'm afraid I can't reproduce.  But then again, I
>> spend relatively little time in LC with the IDE's Tool Palette open.
>> I'll play around with it and see what I can find.  If you come up with a
>> step-by-step recipe for me to follow that would help.
>> 
>> Thanks for the report.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>> 
>> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

Richard:
Here’s what I found on the palette thing. I’m no longer worried about the 
backdrop because it was just me not seeing that there was a LC toolbar menu 
item that would turn it off. In fact, I may have been blaming Devo incorrectly, 
when it was LC’s responsibility.

If you, in 9.0.1 RC 2 or 3, drag the 4W toolbar to the right, lift the mouse, 
then drag it back to the left, I see it refusing to be dragged fully to the 
left. In LC 8.2.0, it acts normally, but in  LC 9.0.1 RC3, it won’t return all 
the way left. It seems like it’s trying to leave space for the IDE Tools 
palette, but it doesn’t matter whether it’s visible or not.

Richard, I can live with this. I’m on a Mac. It should be very easy to 
replicate, if it’s happening on your computer. I wonder if there was some 
change in the messaging in 9.0.1 versions that causes this.

Best,
Bill

> On Sep 4, 2018, at 8:12 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> William Prothero wrote:
> 
>> Folks (Richard?):
>> Ok, I know this is really easy, I did it when I first installed it,
>> and I’m probably just not seeing something, but ……..
>> 
>> I’m on Apple, 10.13.3 and LC 9.0.1
>> 
>> How do I get rid of the white background that covers the desktop when
>> 4WDevolution is launched? I have gotten used to Devolution and like
>> it, but it has become a bit annoying lately.
> 
> Thanks for writing, Bill.  I got your email as well, still catching up
> on my In Box after the long holiday weekend.  Replying here is just as good.
> 
> 4W devo does not alter the IDE's backdrop settings.  And unfortunately,
> I'm not able to reproduce that here.
> 
> If you open LC's Prefs you should be able to turn off the backdrop from
> there.
> 
> If you have any other details which might help me reproduce that I'll be
> happy to see what I can do, but AFAIK there are no interactions between
> 4W devo's prefs and LC's.
> 
> 
> 
>> Second question: Since 9.0.1 RC1 of livecode, the 4WDevo tool palette
>> will not stay on the left side. It is exactly offset to show both the
>> LCE tools palette and the 4WDevo tools palette. But, if I want to
>> toggle between them, having it offset is a pain. I can move it over
>> using the Desktop feature of 4WDevo, but then it pops back to the
>> right after clicking on the 4WDevo palette. Or, just drag it to the
>> right, then it won’t drag back to the left where it started.
> 
> Another oddity that I'm afraid I can't reproduce.  But then again, I
> spend relatively little time in LC with the IDE's Tool Palette open.
> I'll play around with it and see what I can find.  If you come up with a
> step-by-step recipe for me to follow that would help.
> 
> Thanks for the report.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

William Prothero wrote:

> Folks (Richard?):
> Ok, I know this is really easy, I did it when I first installed it,
> and I’m probably just not seeing something, but ……..
>
> I’m on Apple, 10.13.3 and LC 9.0.1
>
> How do I get rid of the white background that covers the desktop when
> 4WDevolution is launched? I have gotten used to Devolution and like
> it, but it has become a bit annoying lately.

Thanks for writing, Bill.  I got your email as well, still catching up
on my In Box after the long holiday weekend.  Replying here is just as good.

4W devo does not alter the IDE's backdrop settings.  And unfortunately,
I'm not able to reproduce that here.

If you open LC's Prefs you should be able to turn off the backdrop from
there.

If you have any other details which might help me reproduce that I'll be
happy to see what I can do, but AFAIK there are no interactions between
4W devo's prefs and LC's.



> Second question: Since 9.0.1 RC1 of livecode, the 4WDevo tool palette
> will not stay on the left side. It is exactly offset to show both the
> LCE tools palette and the 4WDevo tools palette. But, if I want to
> toggle between them, having it offset is a pain. I can move it over
> using the Desktop feature of 4WDevo, but then it pops back to the
> right after clicking on the 4WDevo palette. Or, just drag it to the
> right, then it won’t drag back to the left where it started.

Another oddity that I'm afraid I can't reproduce.  But then again, I
spend relatively little time in LC with the IDE's Tool Palette open.
I'll play around with it and see what I can find.  If you come up with a
step-by-step recipe for me to follow that would help.

Thanks for the report.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

Must be a bad day. It’s 4World, of course.
Bill

>> 
>> Second question: Since 9.0.1 RC1 of livecode, the 4WDevo tool palette will 
>> not stay on the left side. It is exactly offset to show both the LCE tools 
>> palette and the 4WDevo tools palette. But, if I want to toggle between them, 
>> having it offset is a pain. I can move it over using the Desktop feature of 
>> 4WDevo, but then it pops back to the right after clicking on the 4WDevo 
>> palette. Or, just drag it to the right, then it won’t drag back to the left 
>> where it started.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>> William A. Prothero
>> http://earthlearningsolutions.org
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: 3WDevolution question

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

Oh, gaads. I found the View/Backdrop menu setting to move it to the background.
Never mind….
Ok, the tools palette offset is still annoying.
Bill

> On Sep 4, 2018, at 4:32 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Folks (Richard?):
> Ok, I know this is really easy, I did it when I first installed it, and I’m 
> probably just not seeing something, but ……..
> 
> I’m on Apple, 10.13.3 and LC 9.0.1
> 
> How do I get rid of the white background that covers the desktop when 
> 4WDevolution is launched? I have gotten used to Devolution and like it, but 
> it has become a bit annoying lately.
> 
> Second question: Since 9.0.1 RC1 of livecode, the 4WDevo tool palette will 
> not stay on the left side. It is exactly offset to show both the LCE tools 
> palette and the 4WDevo tools palette. But, if I want to toggle between them, 
> having it offset is a pain. I can move it over using the Desktop feature of 
> 4WDevo, but then it pops back to the right after clicking on the 4WDevo 
> palette. Or, just drag it to the right, then it won’t drag back to the left 
> where it started.
> 
> Could somebody remind me of how to hide the full screen background? Since 
> Devo only began the palette location wierdness since LC 9 RC 1, I assume it’s 
> a bug.
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
> William A. Prothero
> http://earthlearningsolutions.org
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode