Re: how to disturb newbies
On Oct 26, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Jacques Hausser wrote: Le 26 oct. 2014 à 03:27, Kay C Lan a écrit : Again, I FULLY SUPPORT Richard's recommendation that if anyone notices any errors or even believes there should be better examples, Notes, Tips or inclusions in the Dictionary and User Guide, then PLEASE submit them to: http://quality.runrev.com/ Whilst they may not appear in the next cycle, I do appreciate that an improved Dictionary is being worked on, and like LC itself, that has come forward leaps and bounds in the last year, I'm sure all the corrections the Community adds to the Bug DB in relation to the Dictionary will eventually come back to us in the form of much better documentation. After entry in the Bug DB, a quick post to this List giving everyone here a heads up of what you've found would also be much appreciated. I fully agree. The dictionary is very important to shape the first impression of newcomers about LC. I have read and heard several disparaging comments about the documentation which are a very negative publicity for this fantastic product. I perfectly understand that it is far more interesting and stimulating for the small staff in Edinburgh to develop new features - and they are brilliant at that - than devote time and energy to do the house cleaning on the documentation. But it's a vital part of how their work is appreciated outside. I would suggest Kevin to establish a weekly hour of dictionary cleaning for everybody. Most of the dictionary problems could be solved in such a short time. Well said from both of you. Hopefully we can channel some of the energy into useful outcomes. After all, it takes about as much time to submit a bug report as it does to make a post about a bug to a user-to-user venue, but with a bug report it gets queued for action. I'd like to see if we could put together a Community Documentation Team to help with some of the manual steps of applying those bug reports to the Dictionary entries themselves. I'll be discussing this with Ben in our next Community meeting on Thursday. If any of you are in a position to help with such an effort, please drop me a note at the address below and we'll set you up with whatever tools we come up with to make that happen. One possible solution would be to build into the the native LC dictionary a userNotes feature, allowing the user to add comments or examples saved locally for her/his own reference, and within that feature allowing submission of a particular note to the community documentation team for curating for inclusion as a shared note for all users. Best of both worlds, AFAICS. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmb...@gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Hi Peter, Just about the sanest thing I've read on here. I hope it happens. Larry One possible solution would be to build into the the native LC dictionary a userNotes feature, allowing the user to add comments or examples saved locally for her/his own reference, and within that feature allowing submission of a particular note to the community documentation team for curating for inclusion as a shared note for all users. Best of both worlds, AFAICS. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmb...@gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Larry If you need personal notes on anything at all from your own syntax notes to code snippets,, then I suggest you look at the Scripter's Scrapbook. Although it does not directly link to the IDE dictionary, it may have the features you need... www.flexiblelearning.com/ssbk Just a thought. Best regards, Hugh Senior FLCo -- Original message from Richard Gaskin: larry wrote: Richard, It appears to me that you missed my point. Indeed, and apparently I'm not alone in that. I understand that you want a tool for your own personal use that is separate from what others would have access to. You've made the request rather frequently here, and I appreciate that you've submitted this to the bug report DB as well (#10887 for those who may want to add comments there). So please rest assured your desire for this specific tool is well recognized here. As useful as your request may be, it seems that a greater number community members would rather focus their own time on shared information. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 2:46 AM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote: And since little if any of the User Guide is read, Which is another pity as so much excellent information is in there. I know your don't really want to hear more 'what should and shouldn't happen' and are really fishing for volunteers, but I could see a huge benefit in having may Dictionary entries hyperlinked to the appropriate section in the User Guide. Your mention of customPropertySets is a perfect example. Actually, hyperlinks to the many wonderful online lessons hosted on the Runrev website would also be extremely handy. I'll let you return to fishing for volunteers ;-) ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Reading through your email didn’t make the least bit of sense! Until I realized… THAT’S THE POINT! :-) Bob S On Oct 25, 2014, at 03:36 , Jacques Hausser jacques.haus...@unil.ch wrote: Dictionary examples: Syntax: after messageName [parametersList] statementList end messageName Examples: after mouseUp answer after mouse up received end resizeStack --- before Syntax: before messageName [parametersList] statementList end messageName Examples: before mouseUp answer before mouse up received end resizeStack ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Kay C Lan wrote: I know your don't really want to hear more 'what should and shouldn't happen' and are really fishing for volunteers, but I could see a huge benefit in having may Dictionary entries hyperlinked to the appropriate section in the User Guide. Your mention of customPropertySets is a perfect example. Actually, hyperlinks to the many wonderful online lessons hosted on the Runrev website would also be extremely handy. That's an excellent suggestion. It may be difficult while the User Guide is in PDF format, but I believe the User Guide format will change in v8.0 so it may become quite valuable. I'll raise that idea at Thursday's meeting. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager rich...@livecode.org ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Indeed - good poetry doesn't need long exegesis ;-) Le 27 oct. 2014 à 16:06, Bob Sneidar bobsnei...@iotecdigital.com a écrit : Reading through your email didn’t make the least bit of sense! Until I realized… THAT’S THE POINT! :-) Bob S On Oct 25, 2014, at 03:36 , Jacques Hausser jacques.haus...@unil.ch wrote: Dictionary examples: Syntax: after messageName [parametersList] statementList end messageName Examples: after mouseUp answer after mouse up received end resizeStack --- before Syntax: before messageName [parametersList] statementList end messageName Examples: before mouseUp answer before mouse up received end resizeStack ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ** Prof. Jacques Hausser Department of Ecology and Evolution Biophore / Sorge University of Lausanne CH 1015 Lausanne please use my private address: 6 route de Burtigny CH-1269 Bassins tel:++ 41 22 366 19 40 mobile: ++ 41 79 757 05 24 E-Mail: jacques.haus...@unil.ch *** ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
On 25/10/14 22:44, Peter Haworth wrote: I have a free plugin that allows you to enter your own notes and tags about a dictionary entry. They are local to you so not available to all users. If interested, you can find it at http://www.lcsql.com/free-stuff.html Pete lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com Home of lcStackBrowser http://www.lcsql.com/lcstackbrowser.html and SQLiteAdmin http://www.lcsql.com/sqliteadmin.html That's a step in the right direction: Thank you very much indeed. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Le 26 oct. 2014 à 03:27, Kay C Lan lan.kc.macm...@gmail.com a écrit : Again, I FULLY SUPPORT Richard's recommendation that if anyone notices any errors or even believes there should be better examples, Notes, Tips or inclusions in the Dictionary and User Guide, then PLEASE submit them to: http://quality.runrev.com/ Whilst they may not appear in the next cycle, I do appreciate that an improved Dictionary is being worked on, and like LC itself, that has come forward leaps and bounds in the last year, I'm sure all the corrections the Community adds to the Bug DB in relation to the Dictionary will eventually come back to us in the form of much better documentation. After entry in the Bug DB, a quick post to this List giving everyone here a heads up of what you've found would also be much appreciated. I fully agree. The dictionary is very important to shape the first impression of newcomers about LC. I have read and heard several disparaging comments about the documentation which are a very negative publicity for this fantastic product. I perfectly understand that it is far more interesting and stimulating for the small staff in Edinburgh to develop new features - and they are brilliant at that - than devote time and energy to do the house cleaning on the documentation. But it's a vital part of how their work is appreciated outside. I would suggest Kevin to establish a weekly hour of dictionary cleaning for everybody. Most of the dictionary problems could be solved in such a short time. ** Prof. Jacques Hausser Department of Ecology and Evolution Biophore / Sorge University of Lausanne CH 1015 Lausanne please use my private address: 6 route de Burtigny CH-1269 Bassins tel:++ 41 22 366 19 40 mobile: ++ 41 79 757 05 24 E-Mail: jacques.haus...@unil.ch *** ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
I appreciate all this effort to improve the Dictionary. But I feel the discussion about allowing EACH LC user to personally modify the Dictionary with his/her own notes is being overlooked. I think it is crazy that LC only allows notes in the Dictionary that have been reviewed by the staff. I WANT to add my own notes to the Dictionary, edit the examples, etc. In short, I don't want to wait around for the LC Community to fix MY Dictionary. I do not think this is an unreasonable request. Larry - Original Message - From: Jacques Hausser jacques.haus...@unil.ch To: How to use LiveCode use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2014 3:02 AM Subject: Re: how to disturb newbies Le 26 oct. 2014 à 03:27, Kay C Lan lan.kc.macm...@gmail.com a écrit : Again, I FULLY SUPPORT Richard's recommendation that if anyone notices any errors or even believes there should be better examples, Notes, Tips or inclusions in the Dictionary and User Guide, then PLEASE submit them to: http://quality.runrev.com/ Whilst they may not appear in the next cycle, I do appreciate that an improved Dictionary is being worked on, and like LC itself, that has come forward leaps and bounds in the last year, I'm sure all the corrections the Community adds to the Bug DB in relation to the Dictionary will eventually come back to us in the form of much better documentation. After entry in the Bug DB, a quick post to this List giving everyone here a heads up of what you've found would also be much appreciated. I fully agree. The dictionary is very important to shape the first impression of newcomers about LC. I have read and heard several disparaging comments about the documentation which are a very negative publicity for this fantastic product. I perfectly understand that it is far more interesting and stimulating for the small staff in Edinburgh to develop new features - and they are brilliant at that - than devote time and energy to do the house cleaning on the documentation. But it's a vital part of how their work is appreciated outside. I would suggest Kevin to establish a weekly hour of dictionary cleaning for everybody. Most of the dictionary problems could be solved in such a short time. ** Prof. Jacques Hausser Department of Ecology and Evolution Biophore / Sorge University of Lausanne CH 1015 Lausanne please use my private address: 6 route de Burtigny CH-1269 Bassins tel: ++ 41 22 366 19 40 mobile: ++ 41 79 757 05 24 E-Mail: jacques.haus...@unil.ch *** ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Jacques Hausser wrote: Le 26 oct. 2014 à 03:27, Kay C Lan a écrit : Again, I FULLY SUPPORT Richard's recommendation that if anyone notices any errors or even believes there should be better examples, Notes, Tips or inclusions in the Dictionary and User Guide, then PLEASE submit them to: http://quality.runrev.com/ Whilst they may not appear in the next cycle, I do appreciate that an improved Dictionary is being worked on, and like LC itself, that has come forward leaps and bounds in the last year, I'm sure all the corrections the Community adds to the Bug DB in relation to the Dictionary will eventually come back to us in the form of much better documentation. After entry in the Bug DB, a quick post to this List giving everyone here a heads up of what you've found would also be much appreciated. I fully agree. The dictionary is very important to shape the first impression of newcomers about LC. I have read and heard several disparaging comments about the documentation which are a very negative publicity for this fantastic product. I perfectly understand that it is far more interesting and stimulating for the small staff in Edinburgh to develop new features - and they are brilliant at that - than devote time and energy to do the house cleaning on the documentation. But it's a vital part of how their work is appreciated outside. I would suggest Kevin to establish a weekly hour of dictionary cleaning for everybody. Most of the dictionary problems could be solved in such a short time. Well said from both of you. Hopefully we can channel some of the energy into useful outcomes. After all, it takes about as much time to submit a bug report as it does to make a post about a bug to a user-to-user venue, but with a bug report it gets queued for action. I'd like to see if we could put together a Community Documentation Team to help with some of the manual steps of applying those bug reports to the Dictionary entries themselves. I'll be discussing this with Ben in our next Community meeting on Thursday. If any of you are in a position to help with such an effort, please drop me a note at the address below and we'll set you up with whatever tools we come up with to make that happen. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager rich...@livecode.org ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
larry wrote: I appreciate all this effort to improve the Dictionary. But I feel the discussion about allowing EACH LC user to personally modify the Dictionary with his/her own notes is being overlooked. I think it is crazy that LC only allows notes in the Dictionary that have been reviewed by the staff. It may seem crazy until you consider the alternative: once any communications venue is open for unmoderated posting by everyone, it becomes a spam magnet. If it weren't for the daily efforts of the volunteer forum moderators, the LiveCode forums would be an unusable cesspool of spam. Like the forums, an unmoderated Comments facility in the Dictionary would require significant manual effort from a sizable team to keep it in check. We often don't think about spam as an issue, but that's only because of the team of moderators working across multiple time zones culling such posts and banning those accounts almost as soon as they come in, every day. Personally, I find the forum spam moderation more than enough work for me, and I'd guess Klaus and the mods feel the same. Adding Dictionary policing to that task load would take resources away from the community that could be better applied to more interesting things, like: I WANT to add my own notes to the Dictionary, edit the examples, etc. In short, I don't want to wait around for the LC Community to fix MY Dictionary. I can't fault others for wanting to share the benefits of their learning with the rest of the community. That desire for sharing is what's motivating the focus around an enhancement process that benefits everyone. LiveCode is a relatively recent entrant into the open source world, but as we move forward we're finding ever better ways to coordinate the desires of community members to help others for maximum benefit for all. That said, I recognize that from time to time folks may have a desire for something more specialized, in your case for local personal notes. Thankfully Peter Haworth (whom I had the pleasure of finally meeting in person at RevLive last month) seems to have come through for you - this is from a post he made here yesterday: I have a free plugin that allows you to enter your own notes and tags about a dictionary entry. They are local to you so not available to all users. If interested, you can find it at http://www.lcsql.com/free-stuff.html Thank you, Peter, for taking the time to craft that tool and your generosity in sharing it with the community. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager rich...@livecode.org ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Folks, To me, allowing the entire LC user base to modify the dictionary that we all use, will cause more problems than it solves. Richard's idea to form a team of experienced live coders to at least review additions and changes and brainstorm improvements is a great idea. Also, a feature that allows users to make private notes is also a great one. Perhaps, taking it a bit further, users' private notes might contain a button to submit them to the dictionary committee for review and inclusion in the master dictionary. An important goal, I think, is to consider feedback from both experienced and relatively new users who perhaps use a different vocabulary for their desired outcome and can't find their way around the huge number of commands and intricacies. This list also contains a wealth of questions that the documentation team might address. The challenge is to try to get into the mindset of those who are, in real time, trying to solve coding problems. Best, Bill William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org On Oct 26, 2014, at 2:15 AM, la...@significantplanet.org wrote: I appreciate all this effort to improve the Dictionary. But I feel the discussion about allowing EACH LC user to personally modify the Dictionary with his/her own notes is being overlooked. I think it is crazy that LC only allows notes in the Dictionary that have been reviewed by the staff. I WANT to add my own notes to the Dictionary, edit the examples, etc. In short, I don't want to wait around for the LC Community to fix MY Dictionary. I do not think this is an unreasonable request. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Richard- Sunday, October 26, 2014, 8:24:47 AM, you wrote: It may seem crazy until you consider the alternative: once any communications venue is open for unmoderated posting by everyone, it becomes a spam magnet. Right cough Something like Wikipedia that would never work cough -- -Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com This communication may be unlawfully collected and stored by the National Security Agency (NSA) in secret. The parties to this email do not consent to the retrieving or storing of this communication and any related metadata, as well as printing, copying, re-transmitting, disseminating, or otherwise using it. If you believe you have received this communication in error, please delete it immediately. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
I wonder . . . If for the Dictionary . . . We don't need a system like the bug reporting system, and a triage nurse who weeds through the cases. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Richard, It appears to me that you missed my point. I do not see how me adding a note to my OWN Dictionary causes a spam issue. Right now if I want to add a note to the Dictionary I have to log in. Then the note is submitted for approval (I don't know to whom.) Then if the note is approved by (whomever) it gets added to the Dictionary for everyone. Is that the spam you're talking about? Because that is already in place. I am NOT talking about Dictionary policing. I am saying that I want to only edit MY PERSONAL copy of the Dictionary. Also, it would be nice to search on the body and notes of the Dictionary. If that is currently possible (in 6.1.1) I do not know how to do it. Thanks, Larry - Original Message - From: Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2014 9:24 AM Subject: Re: how to disturb newbies larry wrote: I appreciate all this effort to improve the Dictionary. But I feel the discussion about allowing EACH LC user to personally modify the Dictionary with his/her own notes is being overlooked. I think it is crazy that LC only allows notes in the Dictionary that have been reviewed by the staff. It may seem crazy until you consider the alternative: once any communications venue is open for unmoderated posting by everyone, it becomes a spam magnet. If it weren't for the daily efforts of the volunteer forum moderators, the LiveCode forums would be an unusable cesspool of spam. Like the forums, an unmoderated Comments facility in the Dictionary would require significant manual effort from a sizable team to keep it in check. We often don't think about spam as an issue, but that's only because of the team of moderators working across multiple time zones culling such posts and banning those accounts almost as soon as they come in, every day. Personally, I find the forum spam moderation more than enough work for me, and I'd guess Klaus and the mods feel the same. Adding Dictionary policing to that task load would take resources away from the community that could be better applied to more interesting things, like: I WANT to add my own notes to the Dictionary, edit the examples, etc. In short, I don't want to wait around for the LC Community to fix MY Dictionary. I can't fault others for wanting to share the benefits of their learning with the rest of the community. That desire for sharing is what's motivating the focus around an enhancement process that benefits everyone. LiveCode is a relatively recent entrant into the open source world, but as we move forward we're finding ever better ways to coordinate the desires of community members to help others for maximum benefit for all. That said, I recognize that from time to time folks may have a desire for something more specialized, in your case for local personal notes. Thankfully Peter Haworth (whom I had the pleasure of finally meeting in person at RevLive last month) seems to have come through for you - this is from a post he made here yesterday: I have a free plugin that allows you to enter your own notes and tags about a dictionary entry. They are local to you so not available to all users. If interested, you can find it at http://www.lcsql.com/free-stuff.html Thank you, Peter, for taking the time to craft that tool and your generosity in sharing it with the community. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager rich...@livecode.org ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Hi Bill As I already replied to Richard: It seems you missed my point. I am NOT talking about the LC user base modifying the Dictionary we all use. I specifically said: MY Dictionary. In other words, just my own copy of the Dictionary on my machine. I apologize if I did not make that more clear. Thanks, Larry - Original Message - From: Earthednet-wp proth...@earthednet.org To: How to use LiveCode use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2014 9:33 AM Subject: Re: how to disturb newbies Folks, To me, allowing the entire LC user base to modify the dictionary that we all use, will cause more problems than it solves. Richard's idea to form a team of experienced live coders to at least review additions and changes and brainstorm improvements is a great idea. Also, a feature that allows users to make private notes is also a great one. Perhaps, taking it a bit further, users' private notes might contain a button to submit them to the dictionary committee for review and inclusion in the master dictionary. An important goal, I think, is to consider feedback from both experienced and relatively new users who perhaps use a different vocabulary for their desired outcome and can't find their way around the huge number of commands and intricacies. This list also contains a wealth of questions that the documentation team might address. The challenge is to try to get into the mindset of those who are, in real time, trying to solve coding problems. Best, Bill William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org On Oct 26, 2014, at 2:15 AM, la...@significantplanet.org wrote: I appreciate all this effort to improve the Dictionary. But I feel the discussion about allowing EACH LC user to personally modify the Dictionary with his/her own notes is being overlooked. I think it is crazy that LC only allows notes in the Dictionary that have been reviewed by the staff. I WANT to add my own notes to the Dictionary, edit the examples, etc. In short, I don't want to wait around for the LC Community to fix MY Dictionary. I do not think this is an unreasonable request. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Mark Wieder wrote: Richard- Sunday, October 26, 2014, 8:24:47 AM, you wrote: It may seem crazy until you consider the alternative: once any communications venue is open for unmoderated posting by everyone, it becomes a spam magnet. Right cough Something like Wikipedia that would never work cough That may point to an interesting direction: what automated systems does Wikipedia employ to prevent spam? -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager rich...@livecode.org ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Richmond- Sunday, October 26, 2014, 10:37:32 AM, you wrote: I wonder . . . If for the Dictionary . . . We don't need a system like the bug reporting system, and a triage nurse who weeds through the cases. As I understand things, that's what we have now, the problem being that it gets dealt with on a when-we-get-around-to-it basis. So unless you have plenty of spare time and are volunteering for this, I don't think this is a change. I'd be more in favor of a wikipedia-sort of thing where anyone can edit entries (after logging in a la the web forum) and thus we arrive at a community-driven truthiness result, rather than something handed down from a cabal that decides what notes are worthy of inclusion. But that's just me. -- -Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com This communication may be unlawfully collected and stored by the National Security Agency (NSA) in secret. The parties to this email do not consent to the retrieving or storing of this communication and any related metadata, as well as printing, copying, re-transmitting, disseminating, or otherwise using it. If you believe you have received this communication in error, please delete it immediately. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
On 26/10/14 19:47, la...@significantplanet.org wrote: Hi Bill As I already replied to Richard: It seems you missed my point. I am NOT talking about the LC user base modifying the Dictionary we all use. I specifically said: MY Dictionary. In other words, just my own copy of the Dictionary on my machine. I apologize if I did not make that more clear. Thanks, Larry I think that missing the point is sometimes useful; and in the case of the Dictionary is extremely useful. The ability to share user's notes and observations at the sharp end rather than having to excavate the use-list and the forums would save a lot of time and effort. There was a way to add user notes that worked for quite a long time, and in several cases I was saved by user-added notes. As I suggested earlier this evening: something like the bug reporting system with a triage nurse might just be the thing that works. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
On 26/10/14 19:49, Richard Gaskin wrote: Mark Wieder wrote: Richard- Sunday, October 26, 2014, 8:24:47 AM, you wrote: It may seem crazy until you consider the alternative: once any communications venue is open for unmoderated posting by everyone, it becomes a spam magnet. Right cough Something like Wikipedia that would never work cough That may point to an interesting direction: what automated systems does Wikipedia employ to prevent spam? I'm not sure if it does: some of their articles are inaccurate. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
On 26/10/14 19:50, Mark Wieder wrote: Richmond- Sunday, October 26, 2014, 10:37:32 AM, you wrote: I wonder . . . If for the Dictionary . . . We don't need a system like the bug reporting system, and a triage nurse who weeds through the cases. As I understand things, that's what we have now, the problem being that it gets dealt with on a when-we-get-around-to-it basis. So unless you have plenty of spare time and are volunteering for this, I don't think this is a change. I'd be more in favor of a wikipedia-sort of thing where anyone can edit entries (after logging in a la the web forum) and thus we arrive at a community-driven truthiness result, rather than something handed down from a cabal that decides what notes are worthy of inclusion. But that's just me. It isn't just you: you've got my vote! +1 Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Earthednet-wp proth...@earthednet.org wrote: Perhaps, taking it a bit further, users' private notes might contain a button to submit them to the dictionary committee for review and inclusion in the master dictionary. I'd have to look at the dictionary code but it it might be possible to add that feature to lcDictUserNotes. I guess I'm not clear why that would be better than just adding the user note directly though. I have tried to add a dictionary user note for a while but it was totally broken at one point. Is it working again now? Pete lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com Home of lcStackBrowser http://www.lcsql.com/lcstackbrowser.html and SQLiteAdmin http://www.lcsql.com/sqliteadmin.html ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
larry- Sunday, October 26, 2014, 10:47:27 AM, you wrote: Hi Bill As I already replied to Richard: It seems you missed my point. I am NOT talking about the LC user base modifying the Dictionary we all use. I specifically said: MY Dictionary. In other words, just my own copy of the Dictionary on my machine. I apologize if I did not make that more clear. Well, *I* got your point, but I'd like access to the notes you enter as well. Your putting private notes in your system doesn't help the rest of us, and you wouldn't be able to take advantage of the notes that others have previously entered. With a common dictionary base we'd be able to bootstrap having a better dictionary for everyone, and then we wouldn't all be tripping over the same things. -- -Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com This communication may be unlawfully collected and stored by the National Security Agency (NSA) in secret. The parties to this email do not consent to the retrieving or storing of this communication and any related metadata, as well as printing, copying, re-transmitting, disseminating, or otherwise using it. If you believe you have received this communication in error, please delete it immediately. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Richard- Sunday, October 26, 2014, 10:49:51 AM, you wrote: Right cough Something like Wikipedia that would never work cough That may point to an interesting direction: what automated systems does Wikipedia employ to prevent spam? Well, there are notifications, all entries are logged (text, date, ip address), there's a web site that tracks the last several edits made, but by and large if you see and entry that's wrong or needs some clarification you can just edit it. If it rubs someone the wrong way, it will get re-edited. Richmond's reply just came in while I was writing this I think we could easily cut down on spam edits by requiring logins to edit, the way the web forum does. Or tie into the web login system if that's feasible. -- -Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com This communication may be unlawfully collected and stored by the National Security Agency (NSA) in secret. The parties to this email do not consent to the retrieving or storing of this communication and any related metadata, as well as printing, copying, re-transmitting, disseminating, or otherwise using it. If you believe you have received this communication in error, please delete it immediately. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
On 26/10/14 19:54, Peter Haworth wrote: On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Earthednet-wp proth...@earthednet.org wrote: Perhaps, taking it a bit further, users' private notes might contain a button to submit them to the dictionary committee for review and inclusion in the master dictionary. I'd have to look at the dictionary code but it it might be possible to add that feature to lcDictUserNotes. I guess I'm not clear why that would be better than just adding the user note directly though. Well, one reason might be that there would be a vast list of user-added notes of varying value one would have to trawl through to find something that had more universal appeal than the rest. Writing user notes is not as easy as it seem if they are to be read by people other than oneself; and I can envisage a flood of notes written in a way which might not be understood by other users. Therefore there should be somebody who weeds through user-added notes before they are added to the dictionary. - Another thing that might like to be considered is the problem of people who don't have their computers constantly connected to the internet, and it might be worth considering releasing dictionary upgrades here http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ as well as IDE ones. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 10:44 AM, la...@significantplanet.org wrote: Also, it would be nice to search on the body and notes of the Dictionary. If that is currently possible (in 6.1.1) I do not know how to do it. Check out Bjornke's bvgDocu stack. Pete lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com Home of lcStackBrowser http://www.lcsql.com/lcstackbrowser.html and SQLiteAdmin http://www.lcsql.com/sqliteadmin.html ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
One thing also with documentation like the, and newbies are the most vulnerable to this, is how well written it is and does it cover all the steps (ie not start c, d, e...). It hard for a high end development crew to hopefully have the ability to write and edit to a very clean and readable style and also not take some of the very basic knowledge for granted. To really do this well you either have to be extremely luck and have someone on staff that just happens to have writing and/or editing (but both should not be done by the same person if you want great results) as second talents/skills or hire in professional help. In all the companies, organizations and projects I've worked on in the last 35 years or so, in just about every case the writing and editing of any documentation, grants, and, at times, even content to be presented was given some of the lowest priorities and usually there were enough staff that were considered (or self appointed) good enough writers to the task, but usually proved pretty sadly wrong whenever there was some professional work done to compare it to (most especially true in copy editing, even those considered really good are not compared to the truly good ones, I know I've worked with them on projects up to a million words). I'm not saying at all the rev dictionary is poorly written at all. I have always found it very good for me for the most part (more info would always be great and a notes function useful as well), but I'm dyslexic and thus when I read I tend to suck out meaning and toss language out (you should hear me read out loud) and thus the opposite of the average user (language plays a more front and center role in non dyslexic readers and why it can muck up content/meaning for them easily.) Even though really good writing and editing is partially lost on me, I really understand its impact on the end user as I've been doing content design, development and production a long long time and have seen the proven results. Just saying if you really want the more average user and newbie to really grock the material that nuance of a professional giving all the content a good pass really can help and it tends to be the last priority unfortunately. Cheers Jeff On Oct 26, 2014, at 7:00 AM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote: I fully agree. The dictionary is very important to shape the first impression of newcomers about LC. I have read and heard several disparaging comments about the documentation which are a very negative publicity for this fantastic product. I perfectly understand that it is far more interesting and stimulating for the small staff in Edinburgh to develop new features - and they are brilliant at that - than devote time and energy to do the house cleaning on the documentation. But it's a vital part of how their work is appreciated outside. I would suggest Kevin to establish a weekly hour of dictionary cleaning for everybody. Most of the dictionary problems could be solved in such a short time. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
On 26/10/14 20:11, Jeff Reynolds wrote: One thing also with documentation like the, and newbies are the most vulnerable to this, is how well written it is and does it cover all the steps (ie not start c, d, e...). It hard for a high end development crew to hopefully have the ability to write and edit to a very clean and readable style and also not take some of the very basic knowledge for granted. To really do this well you either have to be extremely luck and have someone on staff that just happens to have writing and/or editing (but both should not be done by the same person if you want great results) as second talents/skills or hire in professional help. In all the companies, organizations and projects I've worked on in the last 35 years or so, in just about every case the writing and editing of any documentation, grants, and, at times, even content to be presented was given some of the lowest priorities and usually there were enough staff that were considered (or self appointed) good enough writers to the task, but usually proved pretty sadly wrong whenever there was some professional work done to compare it to (most especially true in copy editing, even those considered really good are not compared to the truly good ones, I know I've worked with them on projects up to a million words). I'm not saying at all the rev dictionary is poorly written at all. I have always found it very good for me for the most part (more info would always be great and a notes function useful as well), but I'm dyslexic and thus when I read I tend to suck out meaning and toss language out (you should hear me read out loud) and thus the opposite of the average user (language plays a more front and center role in non dyslexic readers and why it can muck up content/meaning for them easily.) Even though really good writing and editing is partially lost on me, I really understand its impact on the end user as I've been doing content design, development and production a long long time and have seen the proven results. Just saying if you really want the more average user and newbie to really grock the material that nuance of a professional giving all the content a good pass really can help and it tends to be the last priority unfortunately. Cheers Jeff I think I said that just now, but in a more concise fashion. My brain works differently to yours, and so it is unlikely that your notes (especially if they are whipped up on the fly during a programming session) will be easy for me to understand, and vice versa. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
larry wrote: Richard, It appears to me that you missed my point. Indeed, and apparently I'm not alone in that. I understand that you want a tool for your own personal use that is separate from what others would have access to. You've made the request rather frequently here, and I appreciate that you've submitted this to the bug report DB as well (#10887 for those who may want to add comments there). So please rest assured your desire for this specific tool is well recognized here. As useful as your request may be, it seems that a greater number community members would rather focus their own time on shared information. This isn't to say that your desire for a more personal tool doesn't have merit, but merely that in the role of Community Manager my own focus will tend to reflect things that can benefit the community as a whole. Given the frequency with which you express your desire to have this tool written for you, I had hoped you'd have noticed when Peter Haworth generously did exactly that - please let me post the relevant excerpt from his recent email a third time here: I have a free plugin that allows you to enter your own notes and tags about a dictionary entry. They are local to you so not available to all users. If interested, you can find it at http://www.lcsql.com/free-stuff.html On this I'm in complete agreement: Also, it would be nice to search on the body and notes of the Dictionary. If that is currently possible (in 6.1.1) I do not know how to do it. Full-text search can be handy, but sometimes prone to returning too many results. Still, better than not having it at all. I'd like to see a tag system introduced, so both the core team and the community could supply tags for token entries. That would help with the majority of I couldn't find it moments when the search term doesn't match the exact token name, but would allow for more precise results than most free-text indexing could offer. I'll discuss both with Ben at the next Community meeting. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager rich...@livecode.org ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
What Jeff said. I almost never hear anyone complaining about there being too much documentation. -- -Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com This communication may be unlawfully collected and stored by the National Security Agency (NSA) in secret. The parties to this email do not consent to the retrieving or storing of this communication and any related metadata, as well as printing, copying, re-transmitting, disseminating, or otherwise using it. If you believe you have received this communication in error, please delete it immediately. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Jeff Reynolds hit on some excellent points here: One thing also with documentation like the, and newbies are the most vulnerable to this, is how well written it is and does it cover all the steps (ie not start c, d, e...). It hard for a high end development crew to hopefully have the ability to write and edit to a very clean and readable style and also not take some of the very basic knowledge for granted. ... I'm not saying at all the rev dictionary is poorly written at all. I have always found it very good for me for the most part (more info would always be great and a notes function useful as well) Reading this in mind with the instances where folks have complained about not being able to find what they're looking for, two thoughts emerge: 1. Tagging or other searchability enhancement is paramount. Too many times we know what we want to do, and need to find the token to accomplish it. For example, you're looking for how to purge a stack from memory when it closes with no interest at all in destroying it in any way, not even the hundredth monkey could be expected to stumble across it by typing in destroyStack. Tagging, free-text, or other enhanced search would do wonders with that. 2. Most folks agree with the assessment here, that while it may be nice to see some more compete end-to-end examples, by and large they can get what they need from the content (when they can find it), provided they have enough basic background in how LiveCode works to see how the parts fit. One of the challenges with attempting end-to-end examples for many of the language elements is that they're very, very flexible. How many different examples would be need for binaryEncode, or ReplaceText, or even just customPropertySets before we could expect the Dictionary to be a one-stop solution. So maybe it can't. And since little if any of the User Guide is read, maybe what's needed is a truly essential Getting Started guide, with just the barest bones possible to orient a newcomer to get started, only compete enough for that orientation but not a word longer so that it would actually be read. What info should be included in such a Guide? On this: Just saying if you really want the more average user and newbie to really grock the material that nuance of a professional giving all the content a good pass really can help and it tends to be the last priority unfortunately. Absolutely. And with some 90% of users running the Community Edition, I think it's safe to suggest that an effort of that magnitude would only be accomplishable with the support of the community. Anyone up for participating in a Dictionary triage and revision please drop me a note and we'll make this happen one way or another. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager rich...@livecode.org ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote: I'd like to see a tag system introduced, so both the core team and the community could supply tags for token entries. Hi Richard, My stack lets you add tags to entries as well as writing notes, and search on them of course. although, once again, it's only for local use. Local tags might be a good idea though since there's some amount of personal preference involved when coming up with tag names. Pete lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com Home of lcStackBrowser http://www.lcsql.com/lcstackbrowser.html and SQLiteAdmin http://www.lcsql.com/sqliteadmin.html ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net wrote: Right cough Something like Wikipedia that would never work cough Wikipedia has active moderation. My thinking would be to have enough moderation that a person's first few are held until approved, and after that point, they become presumed OK, and at some point, gain the ability to approve other posts. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Jacques Hausser wrote: Dictionary examples: Syntax: after messageName [parametersList] statementList end messageName Examples: after mouseUp answer after mouse up received end resizeStack --- before Syntax: before messageName [parametersList] statementList end messageName Examples: before mouseUp answer before mouse up received end resizeStack Obviously a rushed copy-n-paste during a hectic release cycle. What's the number for the bug report you submitted on this? I've found in recent years that Dictionary errors have generally been fixed almost instantly once notice is submitted, almost always prior to the next release. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Richard, If that is the case, then apparently there isn't much being done in submitting notice, because I know of many, many Dictionary errors. Larry I don't like to keep being a pest about this, but it would be SO nice if LC allowed us to edit the Dictionary on our own - our own corrections and our own notes. I've found in recent years that Dictionary errors have generally been fixed almost instantly once notice is submitted, almost always prior to the next release. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
If there was a way to include user comments from a link in the dictionary entry, it would be helpful to those who work to improve the dictionary. Or perhaps a direct link to the location where dictionary bugs are reported. Many of the comments would probably be made by newer users, who wouldn't necessarily know where to post their experience or problem. In my work, some of the most valuable feedback I get is from new users. Bill William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org On Oct 25, 2014, at 8:19 AM, la...@significantplanet.org wrote: Richard, If that is the case, then apparently there isn't much being done in submitting notice, because I know of many, many Dictionary errors. Larry I don't like to keep being a pest about this, but it would be SO nice if LC allowed us to edit the Dictionary on our own - our own corrections and our own notes. I've found in recent years that Dictionary errors have generally been fixed almost instantly once notice is submitted, almost always prior to the next release. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
larry wrote: Richard wrote: I've found in recent years that Dictionary errors have generally been fixed almost instantly once notice is submitted, almost always prior to the next release. Richard, If that is the case, then apparently there isn't much being done in submitting notice, because I know of many, many Dictionary errors. Yes, it does seem to be the case that more folks take the time to report Dictionary issues here on this list than in the bug report database. While I was able to find eight reports you've submitted to the bug database, I was unable to find any about erroneous Dictionary entries. Were those submitted under an account with a different email address? I've filed the one you reported here for you: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13813 There may be value in alerting others here on this user-to-user list of issues we find with LiveCode, but submitting them to the bug database allows the maintainers to become aware of them too, making it possible for them to be addressed. FWIW, here's the Dictionary change log for just the most recent version, 7.0, which you can find in the Release Notes included with each version (accessible from the Help menu): Dictionary additions byteOffset (function) has been added to the dictionary. codepointOffset (function) has been added to the dictionary. codepointProperty (function) has been added to the dictionary. codepointToNum (function) has been added to the dictionary. codeunitOffset (function) has been added to the dictionary. nativeCharToNum (function) has been added to the dictionary. normalizeText (function) has been added to the dictionary. numToCodepoint (function) has been added to the dictionary. numToNativeChar (function) has been added to the dictionary. paragraphOffset (function) has been added to the dictionary. sentenceOffset (function) has been added to the dictionary. textDecode (function) has been added to the dictionary. textEncode (function) has been added to the dictionary. tokenOffset (function) has been added to the dictionary. truewordOffset (function) has been added to the dictionary. codepoint (keyword) has been added to the dictionary. codepoints (keyword) has been added to the dictionary. codeunit (keyword) has been added to the dictionary. codeunits (keyword) has been added to the dictionary. paragraph (keyword) has been added to the dictionary. paragraph (keyword) has been added to the dictionary. segment (keyword) has been added to the dictionary. segments (keyword) has been added to the dictionary. sentence (keyword) has been added to the dictionary. sentences (keyword) has been added to the dictionary. trueWord (keyword) has been added to the dictionary. trueWords (keyword) has been added to the dictionary. cursorMovement (property) has been added to the dictionary. formSensitive (property) has been added to the dictionary. tabAlign (property) has been added to the dictionary. textDirection (property) has been added to the dictionary. Dictionary changes The entry for mobilePickPhoto (command) has been updated. The entry for open driver (command) has been updated. The entry for open file (command) has been updated. The entry for open process (command) has been updated. The entry for revBrowserSet (command) has been updated. The entry for sort container (command) has been updated. The entry for sort (command) has been updated. The entry for repeat (control structure) has been updated. The entry for arrayEncode (function) has been updated. The entry for charToNum (function) has been updated. The entry for longFilePath (function) has been updated. The entry for measureUnicodeText (function) has been updated. The entry for mobileLocationAuthorizationStatus (function) has been updated. The entry for numToChar (function) has been updated. The entry for revBrowserOpenCef (function) has been updated. The entry for uniDecode (function) has been updated. The entry for uniEncode (function) has been updated. The entry for byte (keyword) has been updated. The entry for character (keyword) has been updated. The entry for word (keyword) has been updated. The entry for words (keyword) has been updated. The entry for is among (operator) has been updated. The entry for is not among (operator) has been updated. The entry for stackFileVersion (property) has been updated. The entry for umask (property) has been updated. The entry for unicodeFormattedText (property) has been updated. The entry for unicodeLabel (property) has been updated. The entry for unicodePlainText (property) has been updated. The entry for unicodeText (property) has been updated. The entry for unicodeTitle (property) has been updated. The entry for unicodeTooltip (property) has been updated. The entry for useUnicode (property) has been updated. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
Re: how to disturb newbies
Thanks for writing, Bill: If there was a way to include user comments from a link in the dictionary entry, it would be helpful to those who work to improve the dictionary. Several versions back the team added a Notes facility, found at the bottom of each Dictionary entry. While this is useful for sharing supplemental tips, it's still very helpful to alert the team to any erroneous info by submitting a bug report: http://quality.runrev.com/ Or perhaps a direct link to the location where dictionary bugs are reported. The Dictionary is being overhauled for v8.0, necessary since it will provide API documentation for Widgets as well, so its contents will vary according to the components a given user has installed. I can discuss the option of adding a link to the bug DB there with the team on behalf of the community, but once we start down that road we have to ask if there are other places throughout the UI should we consider doing that. Perhaps it would be both simpler for the IDE team and for users to find if there were one consistent place for submitting reports. Currently there's a menu item in the Help menu named Support, which takes the user to a page that includes a link to the bug DB. If that extra step is a bit much I can discuss with Ben the possibility of adding a direct link to the bug DB from the Help menu, or any other location the community feels would be helpful. For those willing to dive deeper into improving the documentation, the team has provided a section on the Contribute to LiveCode page on the format of Dictionary entries, which we can modify directly and submit a pull request for: http://livecode.com/community/contribute-to-livecode/#%20Dictionary%20Entry%20Guidelines Of course that option may involve more work that some are in a position to contribute, so a simple bug report is a great option for putting fixes into the queue. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager rich...@livecode.org ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Richard wrote: I've filed the one you reported here for you: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13813 What I just noticed - thank you ! Jacques ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Richard- Saturday, October 25, 2014, 9:27:06 AM, you wrote: For those willing to dive deeper into improving the documentation, the team has provided a section on the Contribute to LiveCode page on the format of Dictionary entries, which we can modify directly and submit a pull request for: http://livecode.com/community/contribute-to-livecode/#%20Dictionary%20Entry%20Guidelines What? rant When did this show up? The doc editing tool that the team uses doesn't even use this schema or allow many of the elements to be edited. Or explain what they are or how they're used. Aside from the fact that the doc format is bad^H^H^Hatrocious, this schema would have been a big help when I was making doc files. /rant -- -Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com This communication may be unlawfully collected and stored by the National Security Agency (NSA) in secret. The parties to this email do not consent to the retrieving or storing of this communication and any related metadata, as well as printing, copying, re-transmitting, disseminating, or otherwise using it. If you believe you have received this communication in error, please delete it immediately. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Mark Wieder wrote: Richard- Saturday, October 25, 2014, 9:27:06 AM, you wrote: For those willing to dive deeper into improving the documentation, the team has provided a section on the Contribute to LiveCode page on the format of Dictionary entries, which we can modify directly and submit a pull request for: http://livecode.com/community/contribute-to-livecode/#%20Dictionary%20Entry%20Guidelines What? rant When did this show up? The doc editing tool that the team uses doesn't even use this schema or allow many of the elements to be edited. Or explain what they are or how they're used. Aside from the fact that the doc format is bad^H^H^Hatrocious, this schema would have been a big help when I was making doc files. /rant That seems the sort of thing you should complain to the Community Manager about. Wait - that's me! Damn. Now I'm responsible for doing something about it. :) Where can I find the doc editing tool that the team uses, and where is it made available for community contributors? I'll review the situation in my Thursday meeting with Ben. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager rich...@livecode.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Richard- Saturday, October 25, 2014, 10:39:22 AM, you wrote: Where can I find the doc editing tool that the team uses, and where is it made available for community contributors? I forget. I think Mark Waddingham sent it to me or sent me a url or attached it to a bug report or something. I'll try to dig through my notes and see if I can find anything useful. -- -Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com This communication may be unlawfully collected and stored by the National Security Agency (NSA) in secret. The parties to this email do not consent to the retrieving or storing of this communication and any related metadata, as well as printing, copying, re-transmitting, disseminating, or otherwise using it. If you believe you have received this communication in error, please delete it immediately. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Mark Wieder wrote: Richard- Saturday, October 25, 2014, 10:39:22 AM, you wrote: Where can I find the doc editing tool that the team uses, and where is it made available for community contributors? I forget. I think Mark Waddingham sent it to me or sent me a url or attached it to a bug report or something. I'll try to dig through my notes and see if I can find anything useful. Thanks. If it's not been released as a supported community tool, it's probably going to be completely replaced soon anyway with the whole docs overhaul for v8. Still, I'll review the Dictionary update process with Ben to see if there are areas we can streamline between now and then. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager rich...@livecode.org ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
I have a free plugin that allows you to enter your own notes and tags about a dictionary entry. They are local to you so not available to all users. If interested, you can find it at http://www.lcsql.com/free-stuff.html Pete lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com Home of lcStackBrowser http://www.lcsql.com/lcstackbrowser.html and SQLiteAdmin http://www.lcsql.com/sqliteadmin.html On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 8:50 AM, Earthednet-wp proth...@earthednet.org wrote: If there was a way to include user comments from a link in the dictionary entry, it would be helpful to those who work to improve the dictionary. Or perhaps a direct link to the location where dictionary bugs are reported. Many of the comments would probably be made by newer users, who wouldn't necessarily know where to post their experience or problem. In my work, some of the most valuable feedback I get is from new users. Bill William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org On Oct 25, 2014, at 8:19 AM, la...@significantplanet.org wrote: Richard, If that is the case, then apparently there isn't much being done in submitting notice, because I know of many, many Dictionary errors. Larry I don't like to keep being a pest about this, but it would be SO nice if LC allowed us to edit the Dictionary on our own - our own corrections and our own notes. I've found in recent years that Dictionary errors have generally been fixed almost instantly once notice is submitted, almost always prior to the next release. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
Hi Pete I had your previous plugin and now downloaded the updated one you listed below. GREAT!! Larry P.S. Why can't LC be as smart as you? - Original Message - From: Peter Haworth p...@lcsql.com To: How to use LiveCode use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2014 1:44 PM Subject: Re: how to disturb newbies I have a free plugin that allows you to enter your own notes and tags about a dictionary entry. They are local to you so not available to all users. If interested, you can find it at http://www.lcsql.com/free-stuff.html Pete lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com Home of lcStackBrowser http://www.lcsql.com/lcstackbrowser.html and SQLiteAdmin http://www.lcsql.com/sqliteadmin.html On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 8:50 AM, Earthednet-wp proth...@earthednet.org wrote: If there was a way to include user comments from a link in the dictionary entry, it would be helpful to those who work to improve the dictionary. Or perhaps a direct link to the location where dictionary bugs are reported. Many of the comments would probably be made by newer users, who wouldn't necessarily know where to post their experience or problem. In my work, some of the most valuable feedback I get is from new users. Bill William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org On Oct 25, 2014, at 8:19 AM, la...@significantplanet.org wrote: Richard, If that is the case, then apparently there isn't much being done in submitting notice, because I know of many, many Dictionary errors. Larry I don't like to keep being a pest about this, but it would be SO nice if LC allowed us to edit the Dictionary on our own - our own corrections and our own notes. I've found in recent years that Dictionary errors have generally been fixed almost instantly once notice is submitted, almost always prior to the next release. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: how to disturb newbies
On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 10:57 PM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote: I've found in recent years that Dictionary errors have generally been fixed almost instantly once notice is submitted, almost always prior to the next release. Whilst I can't comment on whether the speed at which Dictionary errors are being fixed is faster now than previously, I can say that for my own experience they are not being fixed as fast as you suggest. Based on Richard's recommendation, which I FULLY SUPPORT, I've been posting Documentation Bugs as I notice them. So far I have 5 in the Bug DB, 4 for the Dictionary and one for the User Guide: 2014-04-30 #11838 Dictionary - 'address' - comments wrong 2014-05-20 #12450 The UserGuide - 3.1.6 The Development Menu has Incorrect Menu Items 2014-09-15 #13440 Dictionary entries for Closefield and Delete need additional notes 2014-09-29 #13547 Dictioanry Error - functionNames 2014-10-01 #13572 shell() result not = to Terminal output - OS X All 5 entries include a comment from Hanson that they are confirmed, although their Status remains as NEW. Disregarding #12450, as it's a User Guide error, the other 4 entries were all in the DB well before the latest release cycle, and several have been there for a couple of release cycles. Apart from #11838, which upon further investigation revealed far greater ramifications than just the 'address' entry, the other 3 are pretty straight forward and could have easily been implemented within a cycle. Again, I FULLY SUPPORT Richard's recommendation that if anyone notices any errors or even believes there should be better examples, Notes, Tips or inclusions in the Dictionary and User Guide, then PLEASE submit them to: http://quality.runrev.com/ Whilst they may not appear in the next cycle, I do appreciate that an improved Dictionary is being worked on, and like LC itself, that has come forward leaps and bounds in the last year, I'm sure all the corrections the Community adds to the Bug DB in relation to the Dictionary will eventually come back to us in the form of much better documentation. After entry in the Bug DB, a quick post to this List giving everyone here a heads up of what you've found would also be much appreciated. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
