I have a remote PostGres database which I am testing using the
Database Query tool.
I can connect and set the table and use the default sql select *
statement
I have created the form and connected the fields to the table using
the property inspector. There are 3 fields - id (primary
Were you using PostGreSQL?
I got an INSERT to work now by coding a raw SQL exec:
Now even using the standard Database Query Builder for automatic
updating of these 2 fields I get the following error:
UPDATE failed on SQL command: UPDATE roles SET diz = :1 WHERE id
= 1
RevDb
On 17 Jan 2006, at 22:11, Trevor DeVore wrote:
On Jan 17, 2006, at 12:51 PM, David Bovill wrote:
Most likely. It could be a bug in 1) binding with PostGreSQL or 2)
the PostGreSQL revdb code. I would try coding a raw SQL update
statement and see what happens. If that works then I would
On 18 Jan 2006, at 00:01, Trevor DeVore wrote:
Whenever you see a :1 (or :2, :3) in a query it is using binding.
Take a look at the last parameter description in the docs for
revQueryDatabase and read the Comments section. I don't think
the docs refer to this as binding but that is one
On 12 Jan 2006, at 18:20, Dave Cragg wrote:
On 12 Jan 2006, at 16:16, Mark Swindell wrote:
I'm looking for the location of the formatted line, or its
coordinates relative the field, so that I can place a graphic (an
underline or somesuch) under the text of that formatted line.
This
Sounds to me like you need to download and install a certificate and
then use this certificate in Rev - the process you describe is what
the browser does to install this certificate - so one way or another
you need to get Rev to point to this certificate on the local machine
- see the
On 9 Jan 2006, at 12:35, Dave Cragg wrote:
David, what is it you want to do with this certificate? Use it to
provide your own secure web server, or to verify connections to
https sites secured with certificates issued by CAcert? I'm
assuming the latter. If that's right, then I *think* you
Has anyone used SSL certificates on OSX with Rev?
I have created and downloaded a certificate from www.cacert.org but I
am not sure if this is what is required. The file is
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and not a .pem file. Also I am not sure
where to put it or how to work with keychain access - any
Am I right that there is no built in function to convert HTML named
characters (auml;)?
Does anyone have such a function?
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On 7 Jan 2006, at 23:30, Eric Chatonet wrote:
Hi David,
From the docs:
ÁAacute;
áaacute;
ÂAcirc;
âacirc;
´acute;
ÆAElig;
æaelig;
ÀAgrave;
àagrave;
ÅAring;
åaring;
ÃAtilde;
ãatilde;
Ä
On 5 Jan 2006, at 23:48, Marielle Lange wrote:
Dear all,
as promised, the surprise:
http://revolution.lexicall.org/codes/
Very nice - and Drupal too - think this is probably the best choice
for a general purpose open source CMS around at the moment. Great work!
Found this interesting link while researching into Yahoo web services:
http://www.crockford.com/JSON/xml.html
JSON is a simplified alternative to XML for date-interchange with the
added advantage of working with the Javascript DOM., as such it seems
a very good format for those
Not too good in ruby - but all the work here is done in the regular
expression no? Then use the same cheat to string a couple of rev
lines together?
On 6 Jan 2006, at 20:37, Mark Wieder wrote:
g It'll be hard to beat the one-line Ruby parser:
code type=ruby
null=nil; jsonobj =
Now wouldn't it be nice to have a fastCgi (http://www.fastcgi.com/)
language bindings to Rev?
Now that you could build an open source strategy around!
On 6 Jan 2006, at 22:15, Ken Ray wrote:
On 1/6/06 1:41 PM, Gregory Lypny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello everyone,
Just want to confirm
On 13 Dec 2005, at 13:40, Dave LeYanna wrote:
Dave Bovill and I have taken somewhat different approaches to a
runrev
implementation of an MVC architecture. I'm not sure if Dave's made
his
public yet, but you can see mine on revonline. You may not like it if
you're used to a traditional MVC
I think it should work fine - have not stress tested the approach yet
- but it is what I use (custom properties linking the index to the
structured text files).
I have just started using an MVC (model view controller) architecture
for all my Rev apps - which has been a lot of work figuring
Anyone from the list in-or-around Berlin in December? I am going to
the Chaos Computer Club Conference (27-30 December in Berlin) -
presenting a paper - and it would be great to meet up with any
revolutionaries out there!
NB - it's always a great conference and chance to meet up with and
On 6 Dec 2005, at 20:09, Wouter wrote:
Hi David,
To base64Encode someArray first combine someArray.
The problem is that this cannot be done in a general way (for
marshalling arrays) - as you never know what characters to combine
the array with (they might be present within the array)?
On 7 Dec 2005, at 02:02, Dan Shafer wrote:
Another thing that would surely help would be to get RunRev on
Linux really
cooking; so many of the young programmers I know and hear about are
Linux-savvy.
My experience too - it has been the only way I have ever succeeded
interesting any truly
On 7 Dec 2005, at 11:09, Heather Nagey wrote:
Interesting info there. A couple of things are possibly skewing
perceptions of the average age of the community - youngsters likely
can't afford to go to conferences so you probably wouldn't see them
there, and I wonder how many of them have
On 8 Dec 2005, at 18:18, Richard Gaskin wrote:
My experience too - it has been the only way I have ever
succeeded interesting any truly bright under 25 year olds - the
main thing that puts them off is the lack of an open source
strategy. They go yeah this is great - but is it open
So you want a recursive setProp handler :)
I have not tested this in a while (and there are a few little thins
that don't work quite as expected with these - they do not return
arrays for instance) - but I would try to avoid putting too much code
in the setprop / getprop handlers and use
Yes I have one from 2-3 years ago - should still work. Very cool to
Jabber a whole stack live to another user :)
On 4 Dec 2005, at 23:29, Andre Garzia wrote:
Ben,
there's an alpha library for MSN by Shao Sean, it's on her page at
http://shaosean.tk
Cheers
andre
On Dec 4, 2005, at
Seem to remember that an array was binary data...
- but base64Encode(someArray) doesn't give you anything?
Anyway to get at the value of an array to dump / send it somewhere?
That is without looping over everything as in previous post?
___
On 6 Dec 2005, at 13:41, Heather Nagey wrote:
This is a cease and desist notice, anyone who still has anything to
say on the subject which has been going under the heading of Why
isn't Rev more popular may send it to me off list, if they really
feel they can't hit the delete button in
Thought I'd post these scripts as they are related to the questions
Xavier raised regarding using arrays and nesting... but first some
comments and questions:
1) Marshalling menas packing some data into some format for
sedning somewhere and then unpacking it at the other end.
2)
On 26 Nov 2005, at 21:01, Dan Shafer wrote:
I've been racking my brain the last 48 hours and I cannot come up
with a single development tool company that has succeeded at doing
this since Borland's very early days. I'd be delighted if someone
could point me to a real exception to that
On 26 Nov 2005, at 21:14, Dan Shafer wrote:
As someone who has been playing in the software universe for far,
far too long, I can tell you that:
(a) your basic idea is attractive and workable
(b) it is an economic disaster for the publisher
Why? Because of something called SKUs. That stands
On 26 Nov 2005, at 22:03, Mark Smith wrote:
Dan, this is an innocent question, not intended to provoke or
contradict, but where do you think Rev is currently falling down
with regard to either pro developers or inventive users?
Hard one to answer as RunRev do do a VERY good job at trying
On 26 Nov 2005, at 22:02, Dan Shafer wrote:
I have given up on this dream. In the 70's and 80's, several
companies tried -- with true object-oriented platforms such as
Smalltalk and Java -- to create viable third-party marketplaces for
software components, to no avail.
I know what you
On 26 Nov 2005, at 22:18, Richard Gaskin wrote:
David Bovill wrote:
1) Lack of the large number of professional grade commercial
plugins or open source libraries available compared to other
platforms (this seems to be changing slowly).
They're out there, just poorly cataloged
On 24 Nov 2005, at 05:01, Chipp Walters wrote:
Finally, if my above interpretation of your first post is
incorrect, then please accept my apology.
Thanks for the kind comments (we cna all be sensitive). From my
original post:
Now of course for a small piece of code like this - well may
I wish it were that simple!
A couple of last points from me on this (I retreat humbly flamed): I
have learned a couple of things from my stint working for Creative
Commons UK and on prior commercial work making compilations of works
- much of which was posted by the authors in the spirit
On 22 Nov 2005, at 21:26, Marielle Lange wrote:
David Bovill wrote:
Government contracts do not require that all tools and code used
is open source (I think this would not even be legal).
Unfortunately, this is not clear. I have been in discussion with
the guys of this project: http
On 23 Nov 2005, at 12:36, Marielle Lange wrote:
Likewise, I don't believe commercial developers are a threat to the
open source movement. So why not change the license to Share alike
rather than Share alike-Non commercial?
Thanks for the comments - i agree. I have no real strong opinion on
On 21 Nov 2005, at 21:38, Richard Gaskin wrote:
But in terms of contracting with governments which require open
source software, I think that leaves us out even if our part of a
solution is open source since we, like Flash, Director, Toolbook,
and xCode developers, rely on proprietary
On 21 Nov 2005, at 21:50, Richard Gaskin wrote:
But the bottom line for us Rev developers is that if a customer
requires a truly open source solution then the source must be open
-- that's not the case with Rev, Windows, or OS X, so it rules out
solutions dependent on any of those
On 21 Nov 2005, at 21:58, Alessandro Manotti wrote:
On 11/21/05, David Bovill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The SSL libraries that RunRev uses should be able to do this - and I
would have thought considerably faster than a native and possibly
less secure Transcript implementation - no?
What do
On 22 Nov 2005, at 08:53, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I know how to handle these, that's not the problem. Im wondering if
there
isn't
a better way to handle the arrays and/or which is easier to manage...
Not with arrays - I don't think they are up to handling the complex
nesting required.
Thanks!
On 22 Nov 2005, at 12:22, Wouter wrote:
Which is easy to do with shell() and openssl.
SHA-1 has been compromised too.
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/02/sha1_broken.html
http://www.rsasecurity.com/rsalabs/node.asp?id=2927
etc.
Bummer isn't it :)
On 22 Nov 2005, at 12:40, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
David,
The thing with XUL or the basis for this question is to just
translate XML
type data or streams of data
to memory for faster management
I also tried to work with xml in a recent project and as soon as i
had 500
objects in
On 21 Nov 2005, at 22:03, Mathewson wrote:
I believe that it would, ultimately, be in RR's interest to
release a FREE (as in totally free) version of RR for Linux
- possibly modified from current Linux RR versions so that
it cannot be used to manufacture standalones for commercial
platforms.
I thought this would be your baby :)
On 22 Nov 2005, at 13:49, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:
Hi David,
Do you talk about mapping of XML document into database ?
Yes.
Any nested level of XML can be simulated on self-recursive table.
I just love recursion :)
Generally speaking any XML document
On 22 Nov 2005, at 13:58, Ton Kuypers wrote:
Couldn't get it to work, but found a much better solution on
http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn2002/tn2065.html;
Now I just create an AppleScript and run it, works like a charm :-)
Thanks for the pointer! Something like this (not tested):
On 22 Nov 2005, at 15:23, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:
Would be great to have an example of this for / with your
documentation - it is not an easy concept to grasp without a good
example?
Easy in fact, e.g. Something as
Single Table
Kind{ element, attribute, .. }
Name
Value
On 22 Nov 2005, at 16:02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
xara
http://www.xara.com/ ?
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preferences:
Linux support is not about how many desktops you can sell
applications to - it is about the quality of developers you can
attract, and the ability to deliver intranet, and government
contracts (at least here in Europe) which specify support for open
platforms. It is also about being able
No but I need it badly for digital signatures! Don't think anyone
knows about this though :(
On 19 Nov 2005, at 03:10, Phil Davis wrote:
I don't know much about hashes - is SHA-1 enough better than Rev's
md5digest to warrant paying someone to do it? Or will md5digest do
what you need?
There are 3 or four sketches around but none which i have found that
are what I would call finished objects - or truely general purpose. I
guess there are many people on the list who have rolled their own
custom solutions as it is relatively easy to do that in Rev.
I am working on a tree
On 21 Nov 2005, at 16:56, Richard Gaskin wrote:
Charles Hartman wrote:
Maybe only 1-2% of your typical desktop customers will be using
linux - but I personally would not be using Revolution without
good Linux support for the reasons above.
And the Brazilian government's policy is
On 21 Nov 2005, at 17:16, Richard Gaskin wrote:
Depends on the license requirements, doesn't it? That is, even if
I inherit enough wealth to be able to afford the luxury of working
for free, at the end of the day the RunRev engine isn't open source
so it's not possible for me to deliver
The SSL libraries that RunRev uses should be able to do this - and I
would have thought considerably faster than a native and possibly
less secure Transcript implementation - no?
On 21 Nov 2005, at 17:35, Alessandro Manotti wrote:
Sorry if I introduce myself in this posts.
Please note
On 21 Nov 2005, at 17:49, Mathewson wrote:
What might be rather a good idea is if people in the know
(i.e. Richard Gaskin, RR staff members, or the people
involved in the MC IDE development) made an explicit
statement as to what is FREE (as in totally and utterly
free), what is SEMI-FREE (Um ?)
Hoping you would reply :)
On 21 Nov 2005, at 18:00, Andre Garzia wrote:
That's what happens when goverment decides to migrate itself to
linux without thinking that in the Real world, people might need
proprietary platforms, the zealots excuse is: if we all move,
we'll create momentum to
On 21 Nov 2005, at 19:20, J. Landman Gay wrote:
Mathewson wrote:
Now, maybe I'm wrong, but . . .
I believe that it is perfectly legal to download the
Metacard IDE, download a copy of DC/RR, and then transfer
the RR engine across to the Metacard IDE.
Correct. However, note that since your
On 21 Nov 2005, at 19:19, Mathewson wrote:
My wife is Bulgarian, her father was ina Communist prison
camp . . .
Goli Otok?
Earliert his year I went to Sofia (Capital of Bulgaria) and
listened to Richard Stallman, and reached the follwoing
conclusions:
1. He is a long-haired hippy rather
On 21 Nov 2005, at 20:08, Dan Shafer wrote:
During our recent thread on thin-client vs. desktop apps, several
people suggested that Web Services were passe, outre and otherwise
obsolete and deadsville.
Someone forgot to tell amazon.com. They announced not one, not two,
but three totally
Agreed
On 21 Nov 2005, at 19:50, Richard Gaskin wrote:
The license is the best place to start. The MC IDE license spells
out its own terms, and points to the Rev license which governs the
engine.
As an example:
Some recent code I have been working on trying to formalise the exact
On 21 Nov 2005, at 20:30, Jan Schenkel wrote:
However, I still don't think that letting the server
do all the work while your computer is sitting there
as a glorified VT100 terminal, is the optimal design
of a distributed application. Let the server do what
it's best at: serve shared data ; and
Sorry some bug fixes - sure they can be improved sped up?
License
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-
NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.5 License. To view a copy of this license,
visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/ or send a
letter to Creative
On 17 Nov 2005, at 00:52, Alex Tweedly wrote:
I have good confidence in the sanctity of my laptop, so I'm happy
to use it, even over public wifi access, because all the traffic is
ssh-secured end-to-end. But using a web cafe, or kiosk, public
Internet access at a library, etc. all put me
On 17 Nov 2005, at 04:46, Dan Shafer wrote:
Pricing models will change. We'll see pay-per-use, pay-per-month,
pay-per-file, pay-per-K and other similar models. When it's not
necessary for the manufacturer to package, distribute, sell, track,
upgrade and otherwise deal with thousands and
On 14 Nov 2005, at 20:53, Dan Shafer wrote:
Agreed. That and security are the issues and they have been more
than adequately addressed for a long time now. The omigod my data
isn't on my own server alarm is a red herring. Any company that
sees the advantage in distributed browser-based
Better still would be cross platform VLC?
On 15 Nov 2005, at 08:14, Mathewson wrote:
I am just about to see what can be done with
OpenQuicktime ( http://www.openquicktime.org/ ) as it M I
G H T be the answer to bl**dy xanim.
Those of you who haven't blotted your copybook with the
folks at
that are duplicated in
groups in stacks - luckily they all have the same name - sometimes
you just have to cope with other peoples mess :)
Anyone got an Icon Tool or organiser that I can use / add this stuff to?
On 10 Nov 2005, at 22:12, David Bovill wrote:
function rev_MyImageLibraries
put
On 11 Nov 2005, at 21:17, Scott Rossi wrote:
But this reminds me of a Stupid Web Trick™ that I use in
situations where
I want to grab something from the Web, but for whatever reason the
link is
inaccessible from my browser (or Rev in this case).
STEP 1 - open your favorite text editor
STEP
On 12 Nov 2005, at 08:06, Pierre Sahores wrote:
About AJAX, just a work in progress using ka-map, mapscript,
mapserver (to get from www.maptools.org and http://
www.kyngchaos.com/macosx/downloads.php, a runtime revolution glue
application's server (not online at this time), a MySQL
On 13 Nov 2005, at 18:54, MisterX wrote:
Could this help? It seems free... and open source ;)
http://osx.freshmeat.net/projects/mime-editor/
Looks like Linux only - freedesktop. Rox is cool though :)
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On 13 Nov 2005, at 05:24, Sivakatirswami wrote:
Actually he was talking about a very much larger framework/standard
where Warner Brothers was thinking if they did it that way then
everyone could talk to their accounting via web services, banks,
vendors... etc everyone... i.e. the
On 13 Nov 2005, at 20:45, Sivakatirswami wrote:
For these people, as Chipp said, productivity is the most important
issue, with nearly 500 publications a year to get out the door,
some of the weeklies, its time to get real, and the glitter of the
web service has finally worn off, get the
Can't download - can you give me the url of the download page?
Thanx
On 11 Nov 2005, at 05:00, MisterX wrote:
http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloadsd_op=getitlid=82
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name=Downloadsd_op=getitlid=82
Returns no such card
I cannot save link as from my email client as far as I can tell - and
wget does not seem to be installed on my laptop here - leaving me the
option of writing a local html file with the link and
Thanks for the improvements Sarah!
On 11 Nov 2005, at 04:17, Sarah Reichelt wrote:
Yes, it works for me (Mac OS X 10.4.3) but I prefer to let Rev do the
work of finding the correct path for AppleScript. Also I have never
used the merge function and can't really see why it is needed. Here is
On 10 Nov 2005, at 00:38, Dan Shafer wrote:
I almost labeled this post off-topic since our purpose here is to
discuss how to use Revolution. But I decided on balance that it
affects everyone here, so I left off the [OT].
I've just posted a blog entry at http://www.eclecticity.com/.
On 10 Nov 2005, at 03:03, Alex Tweedly wrote:
Sorry about the problems. I find it's one of the biggest problems
with Rev's live IDE style - it's so hard to ensure that you are
properly emulating a cold start.
Not at all - thanks for sharing it!
Not that i am not focussed or anything - just these pesky Rev fields :)
With the Address Book I am trying to deal really properly with their
edibility - click on them and they change appearance (come to the
front) click elsewhere and they fade back into the background. The
problem with
Yeah - I don't know how to do it either :)
On 10 Nov 2005, at 14:23, Dominik Hruza wrote:
Hello,
i just started working with the program designing the interface for
an adressbook
i want to get rid of the 3D effect in the menu of a pull down
button, but set a background color and so on
on mouseEnter
set the lockText of me to false
end mouseEnter
on mouseLeave
set the lockText of me to true
end mouseLeave
on openField
set the backgroundColor of me to red
--pass focusIn
end openField
on focusIn
set the backgroundColor of me to red
--pass focusIn
end focusIn
Did a quick experiment - try putting this script in a scrolling field:
on mouseDown
if the autohilite of me is true then
put the params
end if
end mouseDown
on mouseUp
if the autohilite of me is true then
put the params
end if
end mouseUp
and then changing the
-- to prevent rapid mouse movements making rev think the target is
the card or something else...
-- probably even better / safer to give all the fields a custom
property and check that
on mouseEnter
put the long id of the target into focussedRecord
if word 1 of focussedRecord is
On 10 Nov 2005, at 18:50, Dan Shafer wrote:
Once again, your view is limited to what now is rather than to what
can and will emerge. Software is an ecosystem. Today, if you took
your blogging tool and made an AJAX version, you might well see
yourself being forced to create a massive and
On 10 Nov 2005, at 20:37, Dan Shafer wrote:
Absolutely. I see two possible applications for Rev in the emerging
world of AJAX and RIA development.
First, there's what you suggest here, Andre: the creation of a tool
for building such apps. Now there's a very interesting paradox here
Anyone got a handy little function for getting the file or stack
names of all the rev image libraries: grocking this now - if that's
the right terminology?
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Not quite sure this gets them all - seem to be some things missing
here compared to the rev image library drop down?
On 10 Nov 2005, at 22:03, David Bovill wrote:
Anyone got a handy little function for getting the file or stack
names of all the rev image libraries: grocking this now
on folder_Open someFolder
replace / with : in someFolder
put line 1 of the volumes into startUpDisk
-- Macintosh HD:Applications:Revolution 2.6.1:
put startUpDisk before someFolder
put tell application kwote(Finder) into someAppleScript
put return activate after
Sorry:
function kwote string
return quote string quote
end kwote
On 11 Nov 2005, at 00:34, Dan Shafer wrote:
David
NOt without some understanding of what kwote does.
Dan
On Nov 10, 2005, at 3:28 PM, David Bovill wrote:
on folder_Open someFolder
replace
If I am creating a library of icons-is there a way of ensuring that
the ids are unique - keep getting icon clashes
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On 6 Nov 2005, at 19:52, woodywoodpecker wrote:
Do you use Applescript or have you find a way to read the
AddressBook.data??
AppleScript.
Also it reads and writes to a shared LDAP address book and I am
trying to figure out a simple way to store xtra metadata in the Apple
Address Book
I'd be interested in this for the Address Book app I'm working on.
Not addressed the issue of data synchronisation in any depth yet...
On 8 Nov 2005, at 18:22, Dave LeYanna wrote:
I was searching the archives looking for some information about a
PIM lib or stack that may be available and
Thanks for posting this Alex - word of warning and feature request
for RunRev - or is as ever there a way I haven't spotted?
First the warning - downloading the stack Networked Address Book
from revOnline automatically asked me to locate x,y, z - can't
remember - to which I naturally said
Personally - i don't like the feel of this.
Web app on site requires you to trust certificate and therefore
presumably give you access to all your emails. Marketing to a list
like this, without including so much as a url, or anything that looks
like a real name - well to be frank the
arrays. Pity Rev strips out
extra tag information when setting the htmlText of a field or you
could really link and store lots of useful info along side the
displayed text.
On 6 Nov 2005, at 00:35, David Bovill wrote:
Is there a way to have list fields work when the lines have the
linkText
- the scripts I have for vCal, vCard are no way
complete, aim to move onto that after Wednesday. Would be great to
merge the two libraries - but see note below.
On 4 Nov 2005, at 18:32, Richard Gaskin wrote:
David Bovill wrote:
I am working on both cVard, vCal and Apple Address Book
If I set the custom property of a control from somewhere else - lets
say:
set the display_Colour of group 1 to red
And this group has defined an appropriate setprop handler - say:
setprop display_Colour someColour
set the bgColor of btn 1 of me to someColour
end
On 5 Nov 2005, at 16:43, Eric Chatonet wrote:
Hi David,
You could use the mouseControl (see in the docs) but I'm not sure
it would be really safe in all cases. Depends of your layout.
So, you could implement a stack custom property to retrieve the
last clicked control: would be safer :-)
Yes - great case study and congratulations!
On 5 Nov 2005, at 20:42, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
Comments:
WoW, Revolution really made my job easier, It has been robust and
simple and has out shined Director for this project. We can really
use Revolution to further help us in this process
Wow thanks - new one to me... why is it not documented? Are there
others like this hidden somewhere?
On 5 Nov 2005, at 23:28, Ken Ray wrote:
executionContexts
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Is there a way to have list fields work when the lines have the
linkText property set?
Hacked at the moment with scripting the hilitedLine
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On 4 Nov 2005, at 16:58, Stephen Barncard wrote:
iCal uses an industry standard format - and it's XML. The files
live in the library somewhere...
Not quite - iCal uses the vCal standard. Recent version of iCal uses
XML based pList files to created indexes of the wierdly named files -
but
On 30 Oct 2005, at 20:16, Richard Gaskin wrote:
Just roll your own and move on to more interesting challenges.
OK - thanks Richard. Have reverted to your suggestion for complex
layouts. Pity though Geometry Manager is a real time saver - I often
spend a good percentage of my time on a
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