> If we want anything that 'lasts', it has to be native.
>From a user perspective, this is not a helpful attitude.
I think it clear that the reality is that some vendors
are unable or unwilling to document everything or open
the code. Standing Canute-like in opposition doesn't
achieve anything an
Matt,
Normally Sir I sit here lurking in the shadows hoping to learn a
thing or two. But I feel I must speak out here.
CONGRATULATIONS!!!
For what it's worth you did the right thing. Contentiousness always
causes problems. best to prune it out.
Regards
David
Matthew Dillon wrote:
Danial. I'm sorry. I warned you to stop, and you haven't. You are
now being mapped out of the DragonFly mail server. Go find some other
project to complain about from your armchair.
-Matt
--- Matthew Dillon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> :Is there an official binary driver policy for
> DragonFly? I understand
> :people want the fast GUI and stuff to work,
> but giving in to the crap
> :that companies push on the open source
> community isn't acceptable in
> :my opinion. Its ju
joerg wrote @ Thu, 15 Jun 2006 13:50:52 +0200:
> On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 09:58:08PM +0200, Thomas Schlesinger wrote:
> > For NVidia, may be the driver code for Haiku OS (ex OpenBeOS) could be
> > helpful: http://web.inter.nl.net/users/be-hold/BeOS/NVdriver/index.html
>
> I hate to repeat myself,
On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 09:58:08PM +0200, Thomas Schlesinger wrote:
> For NVidia, may be the driver code for Haiku OS (ex OpenBeOS) could be
> helpful: http://web.inter.nl.net/users/be-hold/BeOS/NVdriver/index.html
I hate to repeat myself, but the *driver* is not the issue. It is pretty
easy to k
On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 11:30:07PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >
> > I'm using a normal hash map on my system without problems. I'm 100% sure
> > that I get the daily mails :-)
> >
>
> Yes, but perhaps you don't have the same configuration i have. All the mail
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Have you got a backup copy of the HOWTO?
Maybe this one?
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:Xxj4SO-pNsYJ:wiki.dragonflybsd.org/index.php/Set_up_an_email_server+howto+postfix+site:wiki.dragonflybsd.org
reezer
On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 10:44:30AM +0200, Marcin Jessa wrote:
> FYI, sendmail was recently removed from the base of NetBSD leaving
> only postfix. The core of NetBSD AFAIK did not come yet with official
> announcement so reasons for that are just speculations.
You can find an official announcemen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I'm using a normal hash map on my system without problems. I'm 100% sure
> that I get the daily mails :-)
>
Yes, but perhaps you don't have the same configuration i have. All the mail
must be routed to the mailhub, the machine name has to be stripped, and
root has t
Am Mittwoch, 14. Juni 2006 21:41 schrieb Matthew Dillon:
> :Is there an official binary driver policy for DragonFly? I understand
> :people want the fast GUI and stuff to work, but giving in to the crap
> :that companies push on the open source community isn't acceptable in
> :my opinion. Its jus
:Is there an official binary driver policy for DragonFly? I understand
:people want the fast GUI and stuff to work, but giving in to the crap
:that companies push on the open source community isn't acceptable in
:my opinion. Its just going to ultimately prolong the problem and
:diminish the effo
On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 08:40:35PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> There are small irritating differences between the way sendmail and postfix
> treat the aliases. You cannot just rely on pure brute force conversion of
> the setup between sendmail and postfix. The example i have in mind is a
> p
On Wed, Jun 14, 2006, Matthew Dillon wrote:
> Well, for example, did you know that it is virtually impossible to use
> a DBM database in a threaded program due to the stupid POSIX-says-you-
> must-release-all-locks-on-close() problem? You can't treat the threads
That's not a problem
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Third:
> Tell postfix that the alias table is /etc/mail/alias and the database in
> /etc/mail/alias.db. Run newalises.
>
> Joerg
There are small irritating differences between the way sendmail and postfix
treat the aliases. You cannot just rely on pure brute force
:Hmm, is my English that bad? I _agree_ with most of your points, I
:do _not_ want to argue. I just want to know about the ("race")
:"problems" in the libmilter code, because that's code I wrote. Just
:like you most likely would want to know details when I would write:
:"You don't deal with races
Freddie Cash wrote:
>
> Just because you can build the world with sendmail support (or bind
> support, or whatever support) doesn't mean those pieces are actually
> removed from the running system.
Last time i did that on FreeBSD, at least, this did not remove the sendmail
binaries, and much wo
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Seeing that sendmail is old,archaic, not-as-secure and difficult we should
start moving to a better alternative such as Postfix. If anyone has
something against it, raise your hands. Otherwise I'll start trying to do
it.
Petr
Would that include free future maintenance
On Wed, Jun 14, 2006, Matthew Dillon wrote:
> Claus, I'm not going to get into a long involved argument with you.
Hmm, is my English that bad? I _agree_ with most of your points, I
do _not_ want to argue. I just want to know about the ("race")
"problems" in the libmilter code, because that's
On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 19:51:29 +0200
"Martin P. Hellwig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Matthew Dillon wrote:
>
> > (2) Provide an RC option to select postfix instead of sendmail
> > as the MTA.
>
> And if the options could be like:
> [ ] Sendmail (Default)
> [ ] Postfix (Preferred)
> [ ] mail.
On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 11:07:33AM -0700, Freddie Cash wrote:
> IMO (which counts for as much as a lady-bug's), sendmail should be
> removed from base completely. Include a simple local-only mailer.
PLEASE GUYS, READ THE ARCHIVE.
A local-only mailer is not an option, since it would break too ma
Claus, I'm not going to get into a long involved argument with you.
I've been using sendmail for a very long time and, frankly, the fact
that someone knows that there is a solution to each individual problem
doesn't actually help the people who are trying to use the program.
Ev
On Wed, June 14, 2006 7:54 am, Justin C. Sherrill wrote:
> On Wed, June 14, 2006 9:49 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Right now, we can switch out to any MTA people want, including
> Postfix.
Several people have mentioned that you can remove sendmail from the
base by just setting NO_SENDMAIL in mak
Matthew Dillon wrote:
(2) Provide an RC option to select postfix instead of sendmail as the
MTA.
And if the options could be like:
[ ] Sendmail (Default)
[ ] Postfix (Preferred)
[ ] mail.local (None)
With the last one including Oliver's suggestion.
Everybody would be happy, no?
On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 09:13:40 -0700 (PDT)
Matthew Dillon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ok. This may come as a surprise to some of you but I am frankly
> all for changing the default MTA from sendmail to postfix. I've used
> sendmail ever since 1985, and I have dug into the code on more
>
On Wed, June 14, 2006 1:15 pm, Matthew Dillon wrote:
>
> Urm. I dunno. I think I'd rather we moved to a postfix default, just
> because postfix has been out there for a long time now and is a
> completely proven subsystem.
I realize I'm asking for something I can't implement myself,
On Wed, Jun 14, 2006, Matthew Dillon wrote:
> :Which functionality is missing? Usually sm8 is considered the MTA
> :with the most functionality.
>
> For example, local user feed-through aliases using '.'. For example,
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean here. Please explain.
> all
I really wish that. However, in the near coming days, noone will use
DragonFly on desktop simply because Linux and FreeBSD will have OpenGL
accelerated X for which you need 3rd party drivers. I briefly installed
KDE on FreeBSD without nvidia drivers. It was ok, but GUI was slow,
redrawing windows
:
:> Not enough functionality. A basic refusal by the authors to bring
:
:Which functionality is missing? Usually sm8 is considered the MTA
:with the most functionality.
For example, local user feed-through aliases using '.'. For example,
all the stupidity with turning simple contro
Is there an official binary driver policy for DragonFly? I understand
people want the fast GUI and stuff to work, but giving in to the crap
that companies push on the open source community isn't acceptable in
my opinion. Its just going to ultimately prolong the problem and
diminish the efforts o
On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 09:29:44AM -0700, Jeremy C. Reed wrote:
> I like and use postfix myself. My one problem with it is that I need to
> have some of the processes running to even use it. I'd prefer to be able
> to have email services turned off but still be able to send an email as
> can be
On 14-Jun-2006 17:25.57 (BST), Emiel Kollof wrote:
> > (1) Either bring postfix into base or integrate it into the NRELEASE
> > infrastructure as a package.
> >
> > (2) Provide an RC option to select postfix instead of sendmail as the
> > MTA.
> What about things like mysql/
On Wed, Jun 14, 2006, Matthew Dillon wrote:
> Not enough functionality. A basic refusal by the authors to bring
Which functionality is missing? Usually sm8 is considered the MTA
with the most functionality.
> the feature set into the 21st century. The code is a huge mess. They
What d
On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 09:13:40AM -0700, Matthew Dillon wrote:
> (1) Either bring postfix into base or integrate it into the NRELEASE
>infrastructure as a package.
The latter is as simple as adding the package.
> (2) Provide an RC option to select postfix instead of sendmail as
> I also disagree on the "not-as-secure" point. The days when
> sendmail CERT advisories were issued weekly are long gone.
> Sendmail isn't monolithic anymore, it has been split into
> several processes using separated priviledges, similar to
> postfix and qmail.
Still very different. sendmail is
Op woensdag 14 juni 2006 18:13, schreef Matthew Dillon:
> (1) Either bring postfix into base or integrate it into the NRELEASE
>infrastructure as a package.
>
> (2) Provide an RC option to select postfix instead of sendmail as the
>MTA.
What about things like mysql/pgsql
Ok. This may come as a surprise to some of you but I am frankly all
for changing the default MTA from sendmail to postfix. I've used
sendmail ever since 1985, and I have dug into the code on more
then one occassion. It's a huge mess and I've been unhappy with the
way it
Am Mittwoch, 14. Juni 2006 15:49 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> > I dispute that. DragonFly will be just as suited for desktops as Linux
> > is. Simply because X works and desktop environments work on it.
>
> I really wish that. However, in the near coming days, noone will use
> DragonFly on desktop
Have you got a backup copy of the HOWTO?
> On the original wiki, I had a HOWTO about setting up a new mail server
> (using postfix). Both back surgery, work, family, etc. have kept me
> from trying to recreate this page on the new wiki. Instead of coding up
> something that is going to piss off
On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 16:06 +1000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Seeing that sendmail is old,archaic, not-as-secure and difficult we should
> start moving to a better alternative such as Postfix. If anyone has
> something against it, raise your hands. Otherwise I'll start trying to do
> it.
>
> Petr
On Wed, June 14, 2006 9:49 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> accelerated X for which you need 3rd party drivers. I briefly installed
> KDE on FreeBSD without nvidia drivers. It was ok, but GUI was slow,
> redrawing windows was slow(same on DragonFly), then I installed nvidia
> drivers and now it's ve
> I dispute that. DragonFly will be just as suited for desktops as Linux is.
> Simply because X works and desktop environments work on it.
I really wish that. However, in the near coming days, noone will use
DragonFly on desktop simply because Linux and FreeBSD will have OpenGL
accelerated X for w
On 14-Jun-2006 13:54.52 (BST), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Sure, old BSD users will have a strange fetishist nostalogy for Sendmail.
> If we are to have a full blown MTA such as Sendmail in the base system,
> why not have a mailserver that most Linux admins don't hate to use?
That's more than a
On Wed, Jun 14, 2006 at 04:06:00PM +1000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Seeing that sendmail is old,archaic, not-as-secure and difficult we should
> start moving to a better alternative such as Postfix. If anyone has
> something against it, raise your hands. Otherwise I'll start trying to do
> it.
Pl
Op woensdag 14 juni 2006 14:54, schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> I don't see any point in having a small local-only MTA. Barely noone will
> choose DragonFly BSD as their desktop OS of choice. DragonFly is an OS for
> servers, and that includes mail.
I dispute that. DragonFly will be just as suited fo
I don't see any point in having a small local-only MTA. Barely noone will
choose DragonFly BSD as their desktop OS of choice. DragonFly is an OS for
servers, and that includes mail.
Sure, old BSD users will have a strange fetishist nostalogy for Sendmail.
If we are to have a full blown MTA such as
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> So can anyone summerize the pros and cons of sendmail/postfix?
I won't, because I'm probably biased.
But something which should also be taken into account is
the fact that postfix is under IBM's Public License, which
is not BSD-like and has rather much in common with t
Op woensdag 14 juni 2006 12:43, schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> So can anyone summerize the pros and cons of sendmail/postfix?
The pro's and cons don't matter. Sendmail is there, it's maintained, and you
can turn it off if you don't want/need it.
> I personally don't see any advantage in using sen
14 Jun 2006 08:22:55 GMT, Oliver Fromme <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Seeing that sendmail is old,archaic, not-as-secure and difficult we should
That's bike-shed stuff. :-)
Oh, that's true, for sure.
Sendmail is old (but actively maintained), but that doesn't
mean that it's bad. E.g. qmail is much
So can anyone summerize the pros and cons of sendmail/postfix?
I personally don't see any advantage in using sendmail instead of postfix
other than "its been in BSD for years". However, I do see advantage in
Postfix. In my opinion main.cf/master.cf is much easier and easy to read
by anyone.
> On
Oliver Fromme wrote:
HOWEVER: If someone wants to remove the MTA entirely
from the base system (i.e. not replacing it with another
one), then I support that. It should be possible to
move sendmail to pkgsrc (I think it's already there),
and only leave a simple local delivery agent in the base
On 14-Jun-2006 10:40.58 (BST), Marcin Jessa wrote:
> > > and only leave a simple local delivery agent
> > > in the base system (something like mail.local), ... [snip]
> > I agree totally with this. I've wondered for a while why the mailer is
> > in the base system, and this way there's less e
On 14.06.2006, at 11:16, Rob Andrews wrote:
HOWEVER: If someone wants to remove the MTA entirely from the base
system (i.e. not replacing it with another one), then I support that.
It should be possible to move sendmail to pkgsrc (I think it's already
there), and only leave a simple local delive
On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:16:59 +0100
Rob Andrews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 14-Jun-2006 09:22.55 (BST), Oliver Fromme wrote:
> > HOWEVER: If someone wants to remove the MTA entirely from the base
> > system (i.e. not replacing it with another one), then I support
> > that. It should be poss
On 14-Jun-2006 09:22.55 (BST), Oliver Fromme wrote:
> HOWEVER: If someone wants to remove the MTA entirely from the base
> system (i.e. not replacing it with another one), then I support that.
> It should be possible to move sendmail to pkgsrc (I think it's already
> there), and only leave a s
On 14 Jun 2006 08:22:55 GMT
Oliver Fromme <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Seeing that sendmail is old,archaic, not-as-secure and difficult
> > we should
>
> That's bike-shed stuff. :-)
>
> Sendmail is old (but actively maintained), but that doesn't
> mean that it's b
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Seeing that sendmail is old,archaic, not-as-secure and difficult we should
That's bike-shed stuff. :-)
Sendmail is old (but actively maintained), but that doesn't
mean that it's bad. E.g. qmail is much newer than sendmail,
but is it better? I don't think so.
I also
rg
> Subject: Replacing Sendmail with Postfix in the base system
>
>
> Seeing that sendmail is old,archaic, not-as-secure and
> difficult we should
> start moving to a better alternative such as Postfix. If anyone has
> something against it, raise your hands. Otherw
Seeing that sendmail is old,archaic, not-as-secure and difficult we should
start moving to a better alternative such as Postfix. If anyone has
something against it, raise your hands. Otherwise I'll start trying to do
it.
Petr
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