On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 12:09:36 -0500, Roger Heflin wrote:
> When the policy is not being followed and/or not enforced it means
> nothing. Only someone who is in love with
> the policy would say otherwise and actively defend it.
You're still not getting it.
> I am going to guess you helped write
On Sat, 30 May 2020 16:42:10 -0500, Roger Heflin wrote:
> The policy means nothing when
Only an "outsider" would say that. That policy has been refined multiple
times since the fedora.us era with its strict QA policies. That policy is
also reason why potential "maintainers" shy away from the
Having started with RH 5.1, and now on Fedora 31, I find this thread
enlightening, entertaining, and relevant.
On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 17:19, Kevin Becker wrote:
>
> When is this thread scheduled for EOL?
>
>
> On Sat, 2020-05-30 at 18:44 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
>
> On Sat, 30 May 2020
The policy means nothing when the staffing is not there to actually do the
tasks. And clearly there is limited staffing. And if they are a volenteer
then tell them they arent doing their job and kick them out. Repeat until
there is no community and you have no staff. Policy is theory of what
When is this thread scheduled for EOL?
On Sat, 2020-05-30 at 18:44 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
> On Sat, 30 May 2020 11:14:22 -0500, Roger Heflin wrote:
> > You really need to understand the devs actual motivations. And
> > yourare attributing things to Fedora devels that are being funded
>
On Sat, 30 May 2020 11:14:22 -0500, Roger Heflin wrote:
> You really need to understand the devs actual motivations. And your
> are attributing things to Fedora devels that are being funded outside
> of the Fedora community.
Please, think outside the box. It isn't helpful to the discussion, if
You really need to understand the devs actual motivations. And your
are attributing things to Fedora devels that are being funded outside
of the Fedora community.
Lenovo will be supporting Fedora on their laptops. They are the OEM
and will provide the heavy lifting (with enterprise
On Sat, 30 May 2020 07:33:04 -0500, Roger Heflin wrote:
> My background is I have been used Fedora since Core 1, and prior to
> that started with Redhat 5/6/7/8/9 and managed (or was technical lead
> for a team) with >1000 installed running combinations of RHEL, Centos,
> non-enterprise
On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 12:34 PM Roger Heflin wrote:
> those workstations would be the expensive cards. A yearly redhat
> support license is enough that no one is going to buy one for a $1000
> machine because in 3 years that license will cost more than the HW, so
> the "cheap" hardware that is
On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 7:41 AM John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> Yes, the other option would be to move to Debian or find another rpm-based
> distro that still supports 32 bit. All of this because Fedora decided to do
> what seems to be so common recently, dropping what still works well. This
> hurts
Hi Bruno,
On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 3:11 AM Bruno Wolff III wrote:
[...]
> I think that covers most of it. It isn't really as bad as it looks
> written out.
Thank you so much for sharing it! I can work with this, maybe some of
it could also be automated leveraging copr ;)
--
Suvayu
Open
On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 00:40:27 -0700,
"John M. Harris Jr" wrote:
Yes, the other option would be to move to Debian or find another rpm-based
distro that still supports 32 bit. All of this because Fedora decided to do
what seems to be so common recently, dropping what still works well. This
My background is I have been used Fedora since Core 1, and prior to
that started with Redhat 5/6/7/8/9 and managed (or was technical lead
for a team) with >1000 installed running combinations of RHEL, Centos,
non-enterprise Redhat/Fedora, and/or SLES since around 1998, in
addition to running a few
On Fri, 29 May 2020 21:08:10 -0500, Roger Heflin wrote:
> The maintainers are for the most part about "packaging" kernels.
> They rarely seem to ever work on kernel bugs, nor have the time to do
> such investigate even if they have the time.
If that were true, something would be even more wrong
On Fri, 29 May 2020 13:56:34 -0500, Roger Heflin wrote:
> I don't believe the kernel.org developers work out of the fedora
> bugzilla (or any distro's bugzilla), so no one who knows anything is
> likely to find and/or see the bug.
>
> To get a kernel developer you would need to at least post a
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 10:46:18 PM MST Samuel Sieb wrote:
> On 5/28/20 9:19 PM, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
>
> > It's quite possible that Suvayu Ali is one of the many users that cannot
> > install Fedora 31, because it doesn't work on their hardware. Fedora 30
> > was the last release to
On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 23:24:58 +,
Suvayu Ali wrote:
Could you please share your workflow? I have been looking for some
guidance so that I can test upstream kernels when I encounter these
hardware issues. I don't need step by step instructions, I'm very
comfortable compiling software,
The maintainers are for the most part about "packaging" kernels.
They rarely seem to ever work on kernel bugs, nor have the time to do
such investigate even if they have the time.
They are not here to answer you questions, and they are overworked.
If someone is paying them, whoever that is, is
On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 6:57 PM Roger Heflin wrote:
>
> I don't believe the kernel.org developers work out of the fedora
> bugzilla (or any distro's bugzilla), so no one who knows anything is
> likely to find and/or see the bug.
>
> To get a kernel developer you would need to at least post a
Hi Bruno,
On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 7:59 PM Bruno Wolff III wrote:
>
> I occasionally submit kernel bug reports. These days one good way to
> get your report looked at is to bisect a Linus kernel to find the commit
> that triggered the problem. This normally takes me about a week to get
> done. I
On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 14:32:10 +,
Suvayu Ali wrote:
What baffles me most, is the nature of the bug. It is the text book
case of a high priority bug, new (budget) hardware, which is becoming
common place very fast, where Fedora isn't bootable, add to that it is
a regression bug. How
I don't believe the kernel.org developers work out of the fedora
bugzilla (or any distro's bugzilla), so no one who knows anything is
likely to find and/or see the bug.
To get a kernel developer you would need to at least post a summary to
the kernel subsystem list if you know which subsystem or
Hi Michael,
On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 5:30 PM Michael Schwendt wrote:
>
> On Thu, 28 May 2020 18:08:48 +0930, Tim via users wrote:
>
> > Perhaps there should be an automated culling of participants. If you
> > step up the plate to say you'll maintain a package, but don't, *you*
> > get dumped
On Thu, 28 May 2020 21:19:34 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1742960
> > >
> > > Lately all my bug reports tend to go like this.
> >
> >
> > Why don't you try to reproduce issues with Fedora 31, 32 or Rawhide
> > and then reassign the tickets
On 5/28/20 9:19 PM, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
It's quite possible that Suvayu Ali is one of the many users that cannot
install Fedora 31, because it doesn't work on their hardware. Fedora 30 was
the last release to support i686, so many users are now stuck there forever,
unless they move to
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 2:30:11 AM MST Michael Schwendt wrote:
> On Wed, 27 May 2020 08:18:48 +, Suvayu Ali wrote:
>
>
> > > As of the 26th of May 2020, Fedora 30 has reached its end of life for
> >
> >
> > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1742960
> >
> > Lately all my bug
On Thu, 28 May 2020 18:08:48 +0930, Tim via users wrote:
> Perhaps there should be an automated culling of participants. If you
> step up the plate to say you'll maintain a package, but don't, *you*
> get dumped from bugzilla.
Please let's not create a thread of doom.
You can't seriously
On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 05:01:19PM +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> I didn't say to remove the packages, but to mark them as "unmaintained"
> (assuming there is such a mechanism).
There is a process to orphan packages, but it is a process started by
the maintainer.
Periodically, you can see
Lets follow the removing the maintainers if they don't respond to BZ'.s
So we remove maintainers, we don't get a replacement maintainer and
then after a few times of unmaintained packages, we remove the
packages. Repeat until we have no packages except the most basic
packages.
Everyone seems
On Fri, 2020-05-29 at 00:55 +0930, Tim via users wrote:
> Tim:
> > > Perhaps there should be an automated culling of participants. If
> > > you step up the plate to say you'll maintain a package, but don't,
> > > *you* get dumped from bugzilla.
>
> Patrick O'Callaghan:
> > I was about to suggest
Tim:
>> Perhaps there should be an automated culling of participants. If
>> you step up the plate to say you'll maintain a package, but don't,
>> *you* get dumped from bugzilla.
Patrick O'Callaghan:
> I was about to suggest something similar. Not necessarily dumping
> them from BZ but removing
2020-05-28 15:00 UTC+02:00, Ralf Corsepius :
> Please do yourself a favor and check which packages and which packages
> you talking about. As I wrote before, there are obvious patterns, but we
> all know the people in charge are not interested.
Wouldn't it be simpler if you told us, instead of
2020-05-28 13:30 UTC+02:00, Patrick O'Callaghan :
> On Thu, 2020-05-28 at 18:08 +0930, Tim via users wrote:
[...]
>> Perhaps there should be an automated culling of participants. If you
>> step up the plate to say you'll maintain a package, but don't, *you*
>> get dumped from bugzilla.
>
> I
On 5/28/20 1:30 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Thu, 2020-05-28 at 18:08 +0930, Tim via users wrote:
Perhaps there should be an automated culling of participants. If you
step up the plate to say you'll maintain a package, but don't, *you*
get dumped from bugzilla.
I was about to suggest
On Thu, 2020-05-28 at 18:08 +0930, Tim via users wrote:
> On Thu, 2020-05-28 at 10:00 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
> > There have always been components with a large number of bugzilla
> > tickets without a response, but Fedora has turned it into a "man
> > versus machine" competition. Which is
On Thu, 2020-05-28 at 10:00 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
> There have always been components with a large number of bugzilla
> tickets without a response, but Fedora has turned it into a "man
> versus machine" competition. Which is unfortunate. First of all,
> those automated responses come
On Thu, 28 May 2020 07:50:16 +, Suvayu Ali wrote:
> It took so long, that the bug report became irrelevant. I have since
> moved to a different country, with a different job, and don't have
> access to the original machine. In fact, as mentioned in the bug, I
> could reproduce a similar
On Wed, 27 May 2020 15:42:39 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
> On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 3:23 PM Michael Schwendt wrote:
> >
> > The fundamental problem here is that it has taken a very long time for
> > somebody to respond to the bug reporter. There has been no guidance and
> > no hint whether anyone
Hi Michael, Ben,
On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 7:23 PM Michael Schwendt wrote:
>
> On Wed, 27 May 2020 12:07:35 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
>
> > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 4:30 AM Suvayu Ali wrote:
> > >
> > > Lately all my bug reports tend to go like this. Are others having the
> > > same experience?
> >
On 5/27/20 9:42 PM, Ben Cotton wrote:
On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 3:23 PM Michael Schwendt wrote:
The fundamental problem here is that it has taken a very long time for
somebody to respond to the bug reporter. There has been no guidance and
no hint whether anyone "somewhere" would be interested
On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 3:23 PM Michael Schwendt wrote:
>
> The fundamental problem here is that it has taken a very long time for
> somebody to respond to the bug reporter. There has been no guidance and
> no hint whether anyone "somewhere" would be interested in looking into
> this issue.
>
On Wed, 27 May 2020 12:07:35 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
> On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 4:30 AM Suvayu Ali wrote:
> >
> > Lately all my bug reports tend to go like this. Are others having the
> > same experience?
>
> I understand the frustration. My bugs get closed EOL, too. For what
> it's worth,
On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 4:30 AM Suvayu Ali wrote:
>
> Lately all my bug reports tend to go like this. Are others having the
> same experience?
I understand the frustration. My bugs get closed EOL, too. For what
it's worth, 3633 bugs were closed EOL for Fedora 30. This is
considerably lower than
On Wed, 27 May 2020 08:18:48 +, Suvayu Ali wrote:
> > As of the 26th of May 2020, Fedora 30 has reached its end of life for
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1742960
>
> Lately all my bug reports tend to go like this.
Why don't you try to reproduce issues with Fedora 31, 32
On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 4:23 PM Mohan Boddu wrote:
>
> As of the 26th of May 2020, Fedora 30 has reached its end of life for
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1742960
Lately all my bug reports tend to go like this. Are others having the
same experience? I have been using Fedora a
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