Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when?
Hi everyone, I've done some draft work to support Schema Generation of JPA 2.1. It's far from over, still needs a lot of polishing but I would love some feedback before moving forward: https://github.com/radcortez/openjpa21/commit/8fc4e306ca7e8dc73737a506768269097289abf4 Thank you! Cheers,Roberto From: Roberto Cortez radcor...@yahoo.com.INVALID To: users@openjpa.apache.org users@openjpa.apache.org Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 1:58 AM Subject: Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when? Hi guys, Started some work on the schema generation features:https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OPENJPA-2554 Would love some feedback to check if I'm in the right track. Thank you. Cheers,Roberto From: Pinaki Poddar ppod...@apache.org To: users@openjpa.apache.org Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 7:20 PM Subject: Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when? May of JPA 2.1 have been developed on the branch Kevin had mentioned. As it was quite a while I had looked at beautiful OpenJPA code (i am now a FOB in the wobbly-goobly-gook Python/Shell Script world filled with super-wizards :), the exact features I had implemented on that branch escapes me. The essentials are 1. Stored Procedure support was well-cooked as it required new constructs/concepts in OpenJPA 2. Many low-hanging features that had been part of OpenJPA in alternative form are adapted to JPA 2.1 form Will take a look when i get some free time. Any new or old committers ready to contribute to OpenJPA are welcome to offer a hand to drive these prototypes to completion. - Pinaki Poddar Chair, Apache OpenJPA Project -- View this message in context: http://openjpa.208410.n2.nabble.com/OpenJPA-support-for-JPA-2-1-when-tp7584157p7587494.html Sent from the OpenJPA Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when?
May of JPA 2.1 have been developed on the branch Kevin had mentioned. As it was quite a while I had looked at beautiful OpenJPA code (i am now a FOB in the wobbly-goobly-gook Python/Shell Script world filled with super-wizards :), the exact features I had implemented on that branch escapes me. The essentials are 1. Stored Procedure support was well-cooked as it required new constructs/concepts in OpenJPA 2. Many low-hanging features that had been part of OpenJPA in alternative form are adapted to JPA 2.1 form Will take a look when i get some free time. Any new or old committers ready to contribute to OpenJPA are welcome to offer a hand to drive these prototypes to completion. - Pinaki Poddar Chair, Apache OpenJPA Project -- View this message in context: http://openjpa.208410.n2.nabble.com/OpenJPA-support-for-JPA-2-1-when-tp7584157p7587494.html Sent from the OpenJPA Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when?
For those that are interested in this development effort, please take a look at the jpa-2.1 development tasks[1]. There are some low hanging prelim tasks that need to get taken care of prior to any real 2.1 work happening. Pinaki -- I see you created a 2.1 development sandbox, do you have any info on the changes that you've already started to prototype? Thanks, Rick [1] http://openjpa.apache.org/jpa-2.1-tasks.html On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 10:50 PM, David Blevins david.blev...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 8, 2014, at 11:55 AM, David Blevins david.blev...@gmail.com wrote: Throwing this out there as it never hurts to be explicit. On the Tomitribe side I'm willing to hire someone to work on OpenJPA full-time if there are enough users out there willing to share the cost of said developer. A full-time developer (or two) is really not that expensive when split 10 different ways. Email me offline -- not really an appropriate conversation for this list. As well this is the first and only time I'll mention it. I will say that at some point our belief in Open Source has to match some level of commitment. Here's your opportunity. Already getting emails from OpenJPA committers lining up to be said full-time developer. Up to users at this point what happens to OpenJPA. Reach out if OpenJPA means something to you. We'll do our best to help you champion it internally. Never hurts to try. You might succeed. -- David Blevins http://twitter.com/dblevins http://www.tomitribe.com -- *Rick Curtis*
Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when?
Hi, Forgive me with these very basic questions: - All the JPA 2.1 work should be done in this svn sandbox: https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openjpa/sandboxes/21?- Should we just pick a task from the list here: http://openjpa.apache.org/jpa-2.1-tasks.html and contribute to it?- Since I'm not a committer, should I just send the patches for the code? Cheers,Roberto From: Rick Curtis curti...@gmail.com To: users users@openjpa.apache.org Cc: Pinaki Poddar pinaki.pod...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 3:09 PM Subject: Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when? For those that are interested in this development effort, please take a look at the jpa-2.1 development tasks[1]. There are some low hanging prelim tasks that need to get taken care of prior to any real 2.1 work happening. Pinaki -- I see you created a 2.1 development sandbox, do you have any info on the changes that you've already started to prototype? Thanks, Rick [1] http://openjpa.apache.org/jpa-2.1-tasks.html On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 10:50 PM, David Blevins david.blev...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 8, 2014, at 11:55 AM, David Blevins david.blev...@gmail.com wrote: Throwing this out there as it never hurts to be explicit. On the Tomitribe side I'm willing to hire someone to work on OpenJPA full-time if there are enough users out there willing to share the cost of said developer. A full-time developer (or two) is really not that expensive when split 10 different ways. Email me offline -- not really an appropriate conversation for this list. As well this is the first and only time I'll mention it. I will say that at some point our belief in Open Source has to match some level of commitment. Here's your opportunity. Already getting emails from OpenJPA committers lining up to be said full-time developer. Up to users at this point what happens to OpenJPA. Reach out if OpenJPA means something to you. We'll do our best to help you champion it internally. Never hurts to try. You might succeed. -- David Blevins http://twitter.com/dblevins http://www.tomitribe.com -- *Rick Curtis*
Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when?
Now that 2.3.x has been cut, I think we can most likely develop 2.1 in trunk. Other opinions? Should we just pick a task from the list here: http://openjpa.apache.org/jpa-2.1-tasks.html and contribute to it? Yes. If there isn't already a JIRA for a given work item, go ahead and create one. Once you have code to contribute you can attach it to that task. Thanks, Rick On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Roberto Cortez radcor...@yahoo.com.invalid wrote: Hi, Forgive me with these very basic questions: - All the JPA 2.1 work should be done in this svn sandbox: https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openjpa/sandboxes/21?- Should we just pick a task from the list here: http://openjpa.apache.org/jpa-2.1-tasks.html and contribute to it?- Since I'm not a committer, should I just send the patches for the code? Cheers,Roberto From: Rick Curtis curti...@gmail.com To: users users@openjpa.apache.org Cc: Pinaki Poddar pinaki.pod...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 3:09 PM Subject: Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when? For those that are interested in this development effort, please take a look at the jpa-2.1 development tasks[1]. There are some low hanging prelim tasks that need to get taken care of prior to any real 2.1 work happening. Pinaki -- I see you created a 2.1 development sandbox, do you have any info on the changes that you've already started to prototype? Thanks, Rick [1] http://openjpa.apache.org/jpa-2.1-tasks.html On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 10:50 PM, David Blevins david.blev...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 8, 2014, at 11:55 AM, David Blevins david.blev...@gmail.com wrote: Throwing this out there as it never hurts to be explicit. On the Tomitribe side I'm willing to hire someone to work on OpenJPA full-time if there are enough users out there willing to share the cost of said developer. A full-time developer (or two) is really not that expensive when split 10 different ways. Email me offline -- not really an appropriate conversation for this list. As well this is the first and only time I'll mention it. I will say that at some point our belief in Open Source has to match some level of commitment. Here's your opportunity. Already getting emails from OpenJPA committers lining up to be said full-time developer. Up to users at this point what happens to OpenJPA. Reach out if OpenJPA means something to you. We'll do our best to help you champion it internally. Never hurts to try. You might succeed. -- David Blevins http://twitter.com/dblevins http://www.tomitribe.com -- *Rick Curtis* -- *Rick Curtis*
Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when?
On Dec 8, 2014, at 11:55 AM, David Blevins david.blev...@gmail.com wrote: Throwing this out there as it never hurts to be explicit. On the Tomitribe side I'm willing to hire someone to work on OpenJPA full-time if there are enough users out there willing to share the cost of said developer. A full-time developer (or two) is really not that expensive when split 10 different ways. Email me offline -- not really an appropriate conversation for this list. As well this is the first and only time I'll mention it. I will say that at some point our belief in Open Source has to match some level of commitment. Here's your opportunity. Already getting emails from OpenJPA committers lining up to be said full-time developer. Up to users at this point what happens to OpenJPA. Reach out if OpenJPA means something to you. We'll do our best to help you champion it internally. Never hurts to try. You might succeed. -- David Blevins http://twitter.com/dblevins http://www.tomitribe.com
Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when?
Throwing this out there as it never hurts to be explicit. On the Tomitribe side I'm willing to hire someone to work on OpenJPA full-time if there are enough users out there willing to share the cost of said developer. A full-time developer (or two) is really not that expensive when split 10 different ways. Email me offline -- not really an appropriate conversation for this list. As well this is the first and only time I'll mention it. I will say that at some point our belief in Open Source has to match some level of commitment. Here's your opportunity. -- David Blevins http://twitter.com/dblevins http://www.tomitribe.com On Oct 22, 2014, at 2:51 PM, tibor17 tibordig...@apache.org wrote: Hello guys, It looks like the TomEE server with Java EE 7 is waiting for OpenJPA release supporting JPA 2.1. How far is OpenJPA with JPA 2.1 support. I appreciate. Thx, -- View this message in context: http://openjpa.208410.n2.nabble.com/OpenJPA-support-for-JPA-2-1-when-tp7584157p7587287.html Sent from the OpenJPA Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when?
Hi everyone, I'm new around here, but I'm very interested in helping OpenJPA to comply with the JPA 2.1 spec. Is someone already doing something? Cheers, Roberto -- View this message in context: http://openjpa.208410.n2.nabble.com/OpenJPA-support-for-JPA-2-1-when-tp7584157p7587446.html Sent from the OpenJPA Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when?
Hi Kevin, It's also hard for me to find the time in this project. I am already a committer at the Maven which already takes quite a lot of my spare time. Maybe you should send such request to the mailing lists of those ASF projects which use OpenJPA. -- View this message in context: http://openjpa.208410.n2.nabble.com/OpenJPA-support-for-JPA-2-1-when-tp7584157p7587336.html Sent from the OpenJPA Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when?
Hi, Thanks for the note and reviving this thread... We are well aware of TomEE's desire for JPA 2.1 support in OpenJPA. It would be great to see JPA 2.1 support in OpenJPA. But, the community contributions in this arena have been slim. This string of notes is one such plea, but there have been others on users and dev mailing lists as well. Although it has been pointed out that the majority of the current committer set is from IBM (that part is true), we would greatly appreciate and welcome contributions from anybody. I don't think opening up the committership to anybody who requests is a viable or valid solution. I think establishing some expertise by contributing patches (code, test, docs, etc) is a valid process for establishing committer karma. I had started the JPA 2.1 activity by documenting the high-level steps for development: http://openjpa.apache.org/jpa-2.1-tasks.html But, as you can see, it's been pretty dormant. Everybody involved with Apache projects have day jobs. And, as a good friend of mine once stated, open source is not free. So, if the JPA 2.1 support is required by the OpenJPA community, then it's time for action. As many of you know, the OpenJPA solution is a very solid, well performing implementation of the JPA specification. But, we will need additional input to make the implementation of JPA 2.1 real. Just telling it like it is... Kevin On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 4:51 PM, tibor17 tibordig...@apache.org wrote: Hello guys, It looks like the TomEE server with Java EE 7 is waiting for OpenJPA release supporting JPA 2.1. How far is OpenJPA with JPA 2.1 support. I appreciate. Thx, -- View this message in context: http://openjpa.208410.n2.nabble.com/OpenJPA-support-for-JPA-2-1-when-tp7584157p7587287.html Sent from the OpenJPA Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when?
Hello guys, It looks like the TomEE server with Java EE 7 is waiting for OpenJPA release supporting JPA 2.1. How far is OpenJPA with JPA 2.1 support. I appreciate. Thx, -- View this message in context: http://openjpa.208410.n2.nabble.com/OpenJPA-support-for-JPA-2-1-when-tp7584157p7587287.html Sent from the OpenJPA Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when?
I'm not concerned about the fact that most OpenJPA committers are IBM employees, but committership *is* de facto closed by the usual Apache meritocracy principles. If you don't get enough volunteers among Apache members for upgrading OpenJPA to JPA 2.1, you might start thinking about making it easier for people to contribute and/or become Apache members. In the age of DVCS, contributing a feature to an open source project should not be harder than creating an issue, forking a repository, writing some code and submitting a pull request. IMHO, Apache is more of a cathedral than a bazaar - for potential contributors willing to code in their spare time, the entry barrier is too high. Best regards, Harald
Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when?
Hi, Matthew asks a pertinent question: When will OpenJPA support JPA 2.1? Kevin's response is factual as well Pinaki has went so far to create a sandbox and start experimenting with an implementation. Again, he's a one-man show and can't do it all. Well, he probably could, but it would require a bit of work... :-) I have done some analysis of the required changes to trunk to comply with JPA 2.1. And made some preliminary implementation work. But, as Kevin observes, Open Source is *not* a one-man show. It thrives on voluntary participation, where *anyone* can contribute if they are passionate about what they do. Not because they belong to a club of one sort or other. So for anyone reading this mail, you are welcome to express your wish to participate in OpenJPA community. You need not to be a member of any particular group or country, your only credential is you. You can write to me in confidence and I will organize the due process to welcome you in the fold. Someone in this thread had raised a doubt about current active participation being dominated by the employees of a single company. But I can assure you based on my association with many of them, that they are excellent engineers who had earned the karma by their own merit and open-minded enough to welcome you irrespective of who pays your bill or which country you live. - About complying to a 2.1 JPA spec version, we should honor a pair of key principles that OpenJPA (or its predecessor Kodo) had always followed: a) it is not driven by a de jure specification and aspires to stay ahead of the curve via innovative features (that perhaps no customer is asking for at that point of times) b) its kernel is agnostic to datastore being of a particular kind (NoSQL enthusiasts should take note ;) While I will keep aside the later design principle for now, the former principle applies for the current topic. This forward-looking tendency can be observed when many new JPA features can be mapped onto existing OpenJPA features (FetchPlan being a notable example). So it does sound strange when we discuss about implementing JPA 2.1 features as if the decision is subjected to someone asking for it. A Open Source group builds features not because a spec committee or a customer, but because , the members, as engineers, think that a feature will be useful -- today or tomorrow. Time may prove otherwise, but unless we carry that spirit of innovation backed by our love for a technology domain, we, as a group, will fall into the trap of factory-built, proprietary software that is so twentieth century. Yes, a popular spec like JPA can provide a guideline, but our decision of how to take OpenJPA forward should not depend on it. - Pinaki Poddar Chair, Apache OpenJPA Project -- View this message in context: http://openjpa.208410.n2.nabble.com/OpenJPA-support-for-JPA-2-1-when-tp7584157p7584212.html Sent from the OpenJPA Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when?
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Pinaki Poddar ppod...@apache.org wrote: While I will keep aside the later design principle for now, the former principle applies for the current topic. This forward-looking tendency can be observed when many new JPA features can be mapped onto existing OpenJPA features (FetchPlan being a notable example). So it does sound strange when we discuss about implementing JPA 2.1 features as if the decision is subjected to someone asking for it. A Open Source group builds features not because a spec committee or a customer, but because , the members, as engineers, think that a feature will be useful -- today or tomorrow. Time may prove otherwise, but unless we carry that spirit of innovation backed by our love for a technology domain, we, as a group, will fall into the trap of factory-built, proprietary software that is so twentieth century. Yes, a popular spec like JPA can provide a guideline, but our decision of how to take OpenJPA forward should not depend on it. I agree with you to a certain point, Pinaki. Yes, with open source, folks are free to innovate and see what's valuable, but in the face of limited resources, it does make sense that resources be assigned in order to address those issues with the most votes. The thorn in the side of this desire-ocracy is the need to implement the specification that, like it or not, defines the minimum bar of entry of the space OpenJPA occupies. For OpenJPA to remain competitive, it not only has to implement those features that have been commoditized by the specification, but also innovate to provide value above and beyond the specification. I am pretty comfortable saying that most customers are going to expect matter-of-factly that OpenJPA implement the latest version of JPA, with an appropriate, but small, lag time after the specification's GA release, which was in May 2013. Otherwise, OpenJPA is at a disadvantage in a competitive situation versus other persistence implementations. Further, it is usually those innovative features that tip an organization's decision to use X or Y. The various JPA implementations find themselves in the now-common dilemma of having their features commoditized by the spec, which then puts pressure on them to innovate. After a particular innovation (or set thereof) is commonplace across implementations, it is standardized and commoditized, and the cycle repeats. I see this a Good Thing. Personally, I think all of the implementations should be striving to implement JDO, since it is and always has been datastore-agnostic and there is a significant NoSQL movement. Most of JPA's innovations have been longstanding features of JDO for years, including fetch plans/entity graphs. Contrary to what many think, JDO has continued undergoing active development this whole time, and 3.1 is now beginning its release process. I have long told customers that if their priority is have choice of implementation, then go with JPA, but if their priority is choice of datastore type, then go with JDO. Hibernate, EclipseLink and Batoo may be conventionally thought of as OpenJPA's competition, but forward thinkers should see DataNucleus as the primary competition, especially as people continue to consider NoSQL solutions. In any case, OpenJPA must, IMHO, implement JPA 2.1 ASAP to be considered legitimate in the space. Further, the roadmap should be to target JDO compliance, as Pinaki alluded to in describing OpenJPA's datastore-agnostic kernel (thanks to its predecessor, Kodo). I mean, seriously, the writing is on the wall. I guess I'm up to my $0.04 now... :) -matthew
Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when?
One concern I have for OpenJPA is that the vast majority of committers are IBM or Oracle people, which can give pause to people thinking about contributing (i.e., the impression that committership is closed to IBMers or Oracle people alone), that they may be better off submitting patches to another Apache project instead. Apache Xalan may have been in a similar situation in the past as virtually all committers were IBMers, causing one to think the project is a closed shop and not getting many external contributions or new people to help out as a result. Without an open community, you may not get the resources to implement JPA 2.1, similar to Xalan's resource problems in implementing XSLT 2.0 today. Glen On 06/13/2013 10:52 PM, Matthew Adams wrote: responses inline... On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Kevin Sutter kwsut...@gmail.com wrote: Good question, Matthew. This has been brought up a couple of different times... http://openjpa.208410.n2.nabble.com/JPA-2-1-td7215602.html http://openjpa.208410.n2.nabble.com/DISCUSSION-JPA-2-1-spec-implementation-td7581978.html So, there's been some interest, but not an overwhelming interest. Not to the point of creating a team, figuring out the work effort, and divvying up the responsibilities. Contrast that with the JPA 2.0 development effort, and there was overwhelming community support and participation. So, I think there are a handful of us interested in a JPA 2.1 implementation, but more participation is required. Pardon my surprise, but that sounds just plain bad. That kind of sentiment threatens to scare users away, IMHO. I have always held OpenJPA in high esteem as one of the major, credible implementations because it's always been up to date WRT to the specs (and, let's not kid ourselves, it hails from Kodo JDO). Frankly, the specs don't move very fast, and at least previews of them are available well in advance of the actual GA releases. Pinaki has went so far to create a sandbox and start experimenting with an implementation. Again, he's a one-man show and can't do it all. Well, he probably could, but it would require a bit of work... :-) https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openjpa/sandboxes/21 Well, I would have expected a team of folks on this, not just one. After all, Pinaki was arguing for expanded fetch plan capabilities in the JPA expert group based on OpenJPA's current capabilities -- and rightfully so, I might add. Maybe we should resurrect that [DISCUSSION] topic I think you should. Especially with any support customers you or the OpenJPA project sponsors may have. but I'm curious what features of JPA 2.1 are of most interest to you? Or, is it just a matter of being consistent with the latest specification? One feature that's worth its development weight is fetch plans, which OpenJPA, thanks to its current fetch plan implementation, can implement fairly quickly. Further, OpenJPA's fetch plan support exceeds JPA's requirement with fetch depth and recursion depth! Additionally, I just happen to be writing an advanced JPA course right now, and customers of this course want to use the JPA implementation in the course that they have settled on in their organization. It just so happens that the maiden voyage of this course covers JPA 2.1 and is for a customer that is also an OpenJPA customer. And they're large. Now, I have to tell them Sorry, OpenJPA doesn't have plans to implement JPA 2.1. Can you say, Bye bye, customer? EclipseLink DataNucleus already implement 2.1, and Hibernate's implementation is in progress. If not for the technical reasons I gave above, then the need to remain competitive should be enough to have you assemble a crack 2.1 team ASAP. Don't forget about BatooJPA making noise (claiming top performance, although I take that with a few grains of salt) and the NoSQL JPA implementations (DataNucleus, ObjectDB, and Kundera), not to mention the Spring Data projects. Like it or not, you are beset on all sides with competition. Just my $0.02, which might just be worth around $0.029 with the interest I've accumulated since working with JDO- JPA-style lightweight persistence since 1996 and with the expert groups since 2000. Thanks, Kevin On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Matthew Adams matt...@matthewadams.me wrote: When will OpenJPA support JPA 2.1? -matthew -- mailto:matt...@matthewadams.me matt...@matthewadams.me skype:matthewadams12 googletalk:matt...@matthewadams.me http://matthewadams.me http://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewadams
Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when?
Hi Glen It's not bad that in this project participate people form IBM, it's bad that there are not people from other companies. As far as I notice people form Oracle haven't participated in this project since OpenJPA 1.x. Java belongs to big companies and in my country is very rarely some small company to use something written in Java except for products what are ready for use in their business. How is the situation in your country ? Best regards Georgi On 06/17/2013 05:49 PM, Glen Mazza wrote: One concern I have for OpenJPA is that the vast majority of committers are IBM or Oracle people, which can give pause to people thinking about contributing (i.e., the impression that committership is closed to IBMers or Oracle people alone), that they may be better off submitting patches to another Apache project instead. Apache Xalan may have been in a similar situation in the past as virtually all committers were IBMers, causing one to think the project is a closed shop and not getting many external contributions or new people to help out as a result. Without an open community, you may not get the resources to implement JPA 2.1, similar to Xalan's resource problems in implementing XSLT 2.0 today. Glen On 06/13/2013 10:52 PM, Matthew Adams wrote: responses inline... On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Kevin Sutter kwsut...@gmail.com wrote: Good question, Matthew. This has been brought up a couple of different times... http://openjpa.208410.n2.nabble.com/JPA-2-1-td7215602.html http://openjpa.208410.n2.nabble.com/DISCUSSION-JPA-2-1-spec-implementation-td7581978.html So, there's been some interest, but not an overwhelming interest. Not to the point of creating a team, figuring out the work effort, and divvying up the responsibilities. Contrast that with the JPA 2.0 development effort, and there was overwhelming community support and participation. So, I think there are a handful of us interested in a JPA 2.1 implementation, but more participation is required. Pardon my surprise, but that sounds just plain bad. That kind of sentiment threatens to scare users away, IMHO. I have always held OpenJPA in high esteem as one of the major, credible implementations because it's always been up to date WRT to the specs (and, let's not kid ourselves, it hails from Kodo JDO). Frankly, the specs don't move very fast, and at least previews of them are available well in advance of the actual GA releases. Pinaki has went so far to create a sandbox and start experimenting with an implementation. Again, he's a one-man show and can't do it all. Well, he probably could, but it would require a bit of work... :-) https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openjpa/sandboxes/21 Well, I would have expected a team of folks on this, not just one. After all, Pinaki was arguing for expanded fetch plan capabilities in the JPA expert group based on OpenJPA's current capabilities -- and rightfully so, I might add. Maybe we should resurrect that [DISCUSSION] topic I think you should. Especially with any support customers you or the OpenJPA project sponsors may have. but I'm curious what features of JPA 2.1 are of most interest to you? Or, is it just a matter of being consistent with the latest specification? One feature that's worth its development weight is fetch plans, which OpenJPA, thanks to its current fetch plan implementation, can implement fairly quickly. Further, OpenJPA's fetch plan support exceeds JPA's requirement with fetch depth and recursion depth! Additionally, I just happen to be writing an advanced JPA course right now, and customers of this course want to use the JPA implementation in the course that they have settled on in their organization. It just so happens that the maiden voyage of this course covers JPA 2.1 and is for a customer that is also an OpenJPA customer. And they're large. Now, I have to tell them Sorry, OpenJPA doesn't have plans to implement JPA 2.1. Can you say, Bye bye, customer? EclipseLink DataNucleus already implement 2.1, and Hibernate's implementation is in progress. If not for the technical reasons I gave above, then the need to remain competitive should be enough to have you assemble a crack 2.1 team ASAP. Don't forget about BatooJPA making noise (claiming top performance, although I take that with a few grains of salt) and the NoSQL JPA implementations (DataNucleus, ObjectDB, and Kundera), not to mention the Spring Data projects. Like it or not, you are beset on all sides with competition. Just my $0.02, which might just be worth around $0.029 with the interest I've accumulated since working with JDO- JPA-style lightweight persistence since 1996 and with the expert groups since 2000. Thanks, Kevin On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Matthew Adams matt...@matthewadams.me wrote: When will OpenJPA support JPA 2.1? -matthew -- mailto:matt...@matthewadams.me matt...@matthewadams.me skype:matthewadams12 googletalk:matt...@matthewadams.me http://matthewadams.me http
Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when?
Hi Matthew, I greatly appreciate your insights. And, I'm 100% behind you on this. OpenJPA has a great, large set of users. We get feedback from all facets of the industry and we try to respond to the best of our ability. Like the squeaky wheel, we pay the most attention to those areas requesting attention. As you've seen, I have tried to generate and gauge interest in JPA 2.1. Mark has expressed some interest and, of course, Pinaki has. And, now your note is the strongest worded request for JPA 2.1. So, it's great to hear that there's finally some interest. This is totally different from the JPA 2.0 effort. When that one was discussed on the OpenJPA forums, there was much more interest from a development perspective with several individuals and teams stepping up -- coding, testing, id, promotion, etc. For whatever reason, the interest in JPA 2.1 is not as strong. Since most of us have day jobs in addition to contributing to open-source, we have to pick what areas to focus on. If there is interest in kicking off a real development effort, then we should probably move this conversation to the dev mailing list and get the development community fired up. Anybody else have input? Kevin On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 9:52 PM, Matthew Adams matt...@matthewadams.mewrote: responses inline... On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Kevin Sutter kwsut...@gmail.com wrote: Good question, Matthew. This has been brought up a couple of different times... http://openjpa.208410.n2.nabble.com/JPA-2-1-td7215602.html http://openjpa.208410.n2.nabble.com/DISCUSSION-JPA-2-1-spec-implementation-td7581978.html So, there's been some interest, but not an overwhelming interest. Not to the point of creating a team, figuring out the work effort, and divvying up the responsibilities. Contrast that with the JPA 2.0 development effort, and there was overwhelming community support and participation. So, I think there are a handful of us interested in a JPA 2.1 implementation, but more participation is required. Pardon my surprise, but that sounds just plain bad. That kind of sentiment threatens to scare users away, IMHO. I have always held OpenJPA in high esteem as one of the major, credible implementations because it's always been up to date WRT to the specs (and, let's not kid ourselves, it hails from Kodo JDO). Frankly, the specs don't move very fast, and at least previews of them are available well in advance of the actual GA releases. Pinaki has went so far to create a sandbox and start experimenting with an implementation. Again, he's a one-man show and can't do it all. Well, he probably could, but it would require a bit of work... :-) https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openjpa/sandboxes/21 Well, I would have expected a team of folks on this, not just one. After all, Pinaki was arguing for expanded fetch plan capabilities in the JPA expert group based on OpenJPA's current capabilities -- and rightfully so, I might add. Maybe we should resurrect that [DISCUSSION] topic I think you should. Especially with any support customers you or the OpenJPA project sponsors may have. but I'm curious what features of JPA 2.1 are of most interest to you? Or, is it just a matter of being consistent with the latest specification? One feature that's worth its development weight is fetch plans, which OpenJPA, thanks to its current fetch plan implementation, can implement fairly quickly. Further, OpenJPA's fetch plan support exceeds JPA's requirement with fetch depth and recursion depth! Additionally, I just happen to be writing an advanced JPA course right now, and customers of this course want to use the JPA implementation in the course that they have settled on in their organization. It just so happens that the maiden voyage of this course covers JPA 2.1 and is for a customer that is also an OpenJPA customer. And they're large. Now, I have to tell them Sorry, OpenJPA doesn't have plans to implement JPA 2.1. Can you say, Bye bye, customer? EclipseLink DataNucleus already implement 2.1, and Hibernate's implementation is in progress. If not for the technical reasons I gave above, then the need to remain competitive should be enough to have you assemble a crack 2.1 team ASAP. Don't forget about BatooJPA making noise (claiming top performance, although I take that with a few grains of salt) and the NoSQL JPA implementations (DataNucleus, ObjectDB, and Kundera), not to mention the Spring Data projects. Like it or not, you are beset on all sides with competition. Just my $0.02, which might just be worth around $0.029 with the interest I've accumulated since working with JDO- JPA-style lightweight persistence since 1996 and with the expert groups since 2000. Thanks, Kevin On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Matthew Adams matt...@matthewadams.me wrote: When will OpenJPA support JPA 2.1? -matthew
Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when?
. Like it or not, you are beset on all sides with competition. Just my $0.02, which might just be worth around $0.029 with the interest I've accumulated since working with JDO- JPA-style lightweight persistence since 1996 and with the expert groups since 2000. Thanks, Kevin On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Matthew Adams matt...@matthewadams.me wrote: When will OpenJPA support JPA 2.1? -matthew -- mailto:matt...@matthewadams.me matt...@matthewadams.me skype:matthewadams12 googletalk:matt...@matthewadams.me http://matthewadams.me http://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewadams -- mailto:matt...@matthewadams.me matt...@matthewadams.me skype:matthewadams12 googletalk:matt...@matthewadams.me http://matthewadams.me http://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewadams
Re: OpenJPA support for JPA 2.1: when?
Good question, Matthew. This has been brought up a couple of different times... http://openjpa.208410.n2.nabble.com/JPA-2-1-td7215602.html http://openjpa.208410.n2.nabble.com/DISCUSSION-JPA-2-1-spec-implementation-td7581978.html So, there's been some interest, but not an overwhelming interest. Not to the point of creating a team, figuring out the work effort, and divvying up the responsibilities. Contrast that with the JPA 2.0 development effort, and there was overwhelming community support and participation. So, I think there are a handful of us interested in a JPA 2.1 implementation, but more participation is required. Pinaki has went so far to create a sandbox and start experimenting with an implementation. Again, he's a one-man show and can't do it all. Well, he probably could, but it would require a bit of work... :-) https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openjpa/sandboxes/21 Maybe we should resurrect that [DISCUSSION] topic, but I'm curious what features of JPA 2.1 are of most interest to you? Or, is it just a matter of being consistent with the latest specification? Thanks, Kevin On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Matthew Adams matt...@matthewadams.mewrote: When will OpenJPA support JPA 2.1? -matthew -- mailto:matt...@matthewadams.me matt...@matthewadams.me skype:matthewadams12 googletalk:matt...@matthewadams.me http://matthewadams.me http://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewadams
