Re: [ovirt-users] Setting up oVirt for the first time

[Simone Tiraboschi]

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Joop  wrote:

> On 1-12-2015 22:59, Gervais de Montbrun wrote:
>
> Is it possible to setup the hypervisor hosts themselves as NFS servers to
> create Storage (I realize that this will play havoc with the HA). We do
> have an NFS server that we will be upgrading to add storage and faster
> drives, but I was thinking that I may be able to use the internal storage
> of the hypervisors themselves as a short term stopgap and then migrate vm's
> to the upgraded NFS server later. Will that even work, or will it break
> somehow?
>
> As Nir pointed out its possible.
> I'm using such a setup at home where a NAS provides NFS storage for
> hosted-engine and also iso/export/data domains for VMs. Besides that I have
> an NFS server on my host for VMs which need a bit of disk throughput, its
> got a nice SSD in it. Moving VM disks from the SSD storage domain to the
> 'slow' storage domain on the NAS and vice versa works fine.
> Problem with these kind of setups is redundancy which is ofcourse
> non-existant :-)
>
>
Take care that up to and including RHEL 7 mounting exports provided by the
localhost NFS-server can lead to deadlocks so it's not a recommended choice.
A loopback iSCSI target should be more reliable on this side.
http://linux-iscsi.org/wiki/Loopback


> Regards,
>
> Joop
>
>
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Re: [ovirt-users] Setting up oVirt for the first time

[Joop]

On 1-12-2015 22:59, Gervais de Montbrun wrote:
> Is it possible to setup the hypervisor hosts themselves as NFS servers
> to create Storage (I realize that this will play havoc with the HA).
> We do have an NFS server that we will be upgrading to add storage and
> faster drives, but I was thinking that I may be able to use the
> internal storage of the hypervisors themselves as a short term stopgap
> and then migrate vm's to the upgraded NFS server later. Will that even
> work, or will it break somehow?
As Nir pointed out its possible.
I'm using such a setup at home where a NAS provides NFS storage for
hosted-engine and also iso/export/data domains for VMs. Besides that I
have an NFS server on my host for VMs which need a bit of disk
throughput, its got a nice SSD in it. Moving VM disks from the SSD
storage domain to the 'slow' storage domain on the NAS and vice versa
works fine.
Problem with these kind of setups is redundancy which is ofcourse
non-existant :-)

Regards,

Joop

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Re: [ovirt-users] Setting up oVirt for the first time

[Nir Soffer]

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 11:59 PM, Gervais de Montbrun
 wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I've done a lot of reading and lots of comparison of different hypervisors
> and tools and have decided that oVirt would be the best option. My initial
> use case is a not too new server that I will setup to run multiple
> development environments for the devs here, but I wanted something that will
> scale out to production as the vm infrastructure, hardware, etc. grows here.
>
> I'll soon have a second server to run my vm's on and want to setup a
> self-hosted engine. I'm trying to find the most recent version of a how-to
> on the same. I found a presentation showing off how much easier it is to do
> this in oVirt 3.6 but can't find the correct docs. I seem to always end up
> with 3.5 or older versions. Can someone point me at a how-to of how to best
> achieve this.
>
> Also, while I have you all here... :-)
> Is it possible to setup the hypervisor hosts themselves as NFS servers to
> create Storage (I realize that this will play havoc with the HA). We do have
> an NFS server that we will be upgrading to add storage and faster drives,
> but I was thinking that I may be able to use the internal storage of the
> hypervisors themselves as a short term stopgap and then migrate vm's to the
> upgraded NFS server later. Will that even work, or will it break somehow?

It is maybe not optimal, but it should work. Not sure if anyone is working
with such setting, so you may have unique issues that nobody solved yet.

Separating storage from the hypervisor will give you better performance
and reliability, and a more standard configuration that will be easier to
manage and support.

You can move the storage later to another server and export the vms.

Nir
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Re: [ovirt-users] Setting up oVirt for the first time

[Simone Tiraboschi]

On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 8:16 AM, Alan Murrell  wrote:

> On 01/12/2015 2:47 PM, Simone Tiraboschi wrote:
>
> What you are asking for is generally called hyper-convergence. We tried
>> to have it for 3.6 with glusterfs on each node but it wasn't valuated
>> stable enough to  be released. We are still working on that for the next
>> release.
>>
>
> In such a setup (GlusterFS running on 3+ nodes, sharing their storage), is
> this also basically what VMware's "vSAN" is?  It seems very similar, at
> least.
>

Yes, the general architecture would be not that different.


>
> Regards,
>
> Alan
>
>
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Re: [ovirt-users] Setting up oVirt for the first time

[Alan Murrell]

On 01/12/2015 2:47 PM, Simone Tiraboschi wrote:


What you are asking for is generally called hyper-convergence. We tried
to have it for 3.6 with glusterfs on each node but it wasn't valuated
stable enough to  be released. We are still working on that for the next
release.


In such a setup (GlusterFS running on 3+ nodes, sharing their storage), 
is this also basically what VMware's "vSAN" is?  It seems very similar, 
at least.


Regards,

Alan

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Re: [ovirt-users] Setting up oVirt for the first time

[Alexander Wels]

On Tuesday, December 01, 2015 05:59:59 PM Gervais de Montbrun wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I've done a lot of reading and lots of comparison of different hypervisors
> and tools and have decided that oVirt would be the best option. My initial
> use case is a not too new server that I will setup to run multiple
> development environments for the devs here, but I wanted something that
> will scale out to production as the vm infrastructure, hardware, etc. grows
> here.
> 
> I'll soon have a second server to run my vm's on and want to setup a
> self-hosted engine. I'm trying to find the most recent version of a how-to
> on the same. I found a presentation showing off how much easier it is to do
> this in oVirt 3.6 but can't find the correct docs. I seem to always end up
> with 3.5 or older versions. Can someone point me at a how-to of how to best
> achieve this.
> 
> Also, while I have you all here... :-)
> Is it possible to setup the hypervisor hosts themselves as NFS servers to
> create Storage (I realize that this will play havoc with the HA). We do
> have an NFS server that we will be upgrading to add storage and faster
> drives, but I was thinking that I may be able to use the internal storage
> of the hypervisors themselves as a short term stopgap and then migrate vm's
> to the upgraded NFS server later. Will that even work, or will it break
> somehow?
> 

I saw Simone gave you an answer about Gluster. Here is my DEVELOPMENT setup, 
which has been running for several years like this now. I have some VMs with 
uptime in the 100+ days. I am NOT doing the hosted engine since I develop stuff 
for the engine and it makes no sense for me to have the hosted engine. Here is 
my setup, which is one option, I will outline some other options which might 
be more appropriate for what you are trying to do to:

* Development engine machine. this runs just the engine.
* 2x hosts, which both expose NFS shares for a data domain.
* Each host can see the NFS share of the other host.
* In my engine I have 2 data domains on one data center. One is the master 
domain the other a secondary data domain.

Pros of this setup:
* I can use the storage on both my hosts for VMs.
* I can live migrate VMs between hosts.
* I can storage migrate VMs between data domains.
* Its cheap and easy to setup

Cons of this setup:
* If any host goes down, the entire data center goes down since both hosts 
need to see all the storage. (Well technically only the VMs that are on the 
storage domain that went down will die and all the VMs on the host that went 
down). So this gives many points of failure for the entire thing to come 
crashing down. This is fine for me since its my development environment and 
nothing critical runs on it.
* Its not always clear on which data domain you will want to create a VM but 
again for me its not much of an issue as this is a development environment.


Here are some other possible setups, which I am not sure will work with hosted 
engine as I believe that requires some kind of shared storage. IIRC it will 
need some kind of shared storage, but it will be separate from the normal data 
domain. So lets assume you have hosted engine up and running and are looking 
at ways of using the storage on the host.

Option 1:
Create a local storage data center and add your hosts to that data center.

Pros of this setup:
* VMs are on local storage so should have decent IO.
* If one host goes down it will not affect any of the other hosts.
* Its cheap and easy to setup.

Cons of this setup:
* No live migration
* No storage migration
* Hard to migrate to a different storage solution later.

Option 2:
This is sort of a hybrid between my setup and option 1. Create several shared 
storage data centers, one for each host. Setup your NFS on each host. Add one 
host to each data center and use the NFS share as the data domain.

Pros of this setup:
* VMs are pretty much on local storage, there is some overhead of the NFS 
share, but it still basically local.
* If one host goes down it will not affect any of the other hosts.

Cons of this setup:
* No live migration
* No storage migration
* Hard to migrate to different storage solution later*.

Given your situation with getting some fast NFS storage at a later point, what 
you can do if you take option2. Once you get the new storage, you can easily 
add an import/export domain and export all your VMs to that storage. One you 
have all your VMs on the import/export domain, create a new data center, add 
your hosts, add your shiny new NFS as a data domain, also add the same 
import/export domain, and import all the VMs into the new data domain. Note 
this might also work for option 1 assuming you can attach import/export domain 
to a local storage data center (I have never tried so I don't know).

In 3.5+ I think you can also simply add a new data center, add your hosts, and 
import the data domains from the other data centers (after you disconnected 
them from there), then storage migrate the V

Re: [ovirt-users] Setting up oVirt for the first time

[Gervais de Montbrun]

Simone,

Thanks so much for the quick reply with the link. Much obliged.

How far off is hyper-convergence? If it is close, I could possibly wait.

Cheers,
Gervais

> On Dec 1, 2015, at 6:47 PM, Simone Tiraboschi  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 10:59 PM, Gervais de Montbrun  > wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I've done a lot of reading and lots of comparison of different hypervisors 
> and tools and have decided that oVirt would be the best option. My initial 
> use case is a not too new server that I will setup to run multiple 
> development environments for the devs here, but I wanted something that will 
> scale out to production as the vm infrastructure, hardware, etc. grows here.
> 
> I'll soon have a second server to run my vm's on and want to setup a 
> self-hosted engine. I'm trying to find the most recent version of a how-to on 
> the same. I found a presentation showing off how much easier it is to do this 
> in oVirt 3.6 but can't find the correct docs. I seem to always end up with 
> 3.5 or older versions. Can someone point me at a how-to of how to best 
> achieve this.
> 
> http://www.ovirt.org/Features/HEApplianceFlow 
> 
>  
>  
> Also, while I have you all here... :-)
> Is it possible to setup the hypervisor hosts themselves as NFS servers to 
> create Storage (I realize that this will play havoc with the HA). We do have 
> an NFS server that we will be upgrading to add storage and faster drives, but 
> I was thinking that I may be able to use the internal storage of the 
> hypervisors themselves as a short term stopgap and then migrate vm's to the 
> upgraded NFS server later. Will that even work, or will it break somehow?
> 
> What you are asking for is generally called hyper-convergence. We tried to 
> have it for 3.6 with glusterfs on each node but it wasn't valuated stable 
> enough to  be released. We are still working on that for the next release.
>  
> Any advice for a new install would be welcome.
> 
> Thank you 
> 
> Cheers,
> Gervais
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 

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Re: [ovirt-users] Setting up oVirt for the first time

[Simone Tiraboschi]

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 10:59 PM, Gervais de Montbrun  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I've done a lot of reading and lots of comparison of different hypervisors
> and tools and have decided that oVirt would be the best option. My initial
> use case is a not too new server that I will setup to run multiple
> development environments for the devs here, but I wanted something that
> will scale out to production as the vm infrastructure, hardware, etc. grows
> here.
>
> I'll soon have a second server to run my vm's on and want to setup a
> self-hosted engine. I'm trying to find the most recent version of a how-to
> on the same. I found a presentation showing off how much easier it is to do
> this in oVirt 3.6 but can't find the correct docs. I seem to always end up
> with 3.5 or older versions. Can someone point me at a how-to of how to best
> achieve this.
>

http://www.ovirt.org/Features/HEApplianceFlow



> Also, while I have you all here... :-)
> Is it possible to setup the hypervisor hosts themselves as NFS servers to
> create Storage (I realize that this will play havoc with the HA). We do
> have an NFS server that we will be upgrading to add storage and faster
> drives, but I was thinking that I may be able to use the internal storage
> of the hypervisors themselves as a short term stopgap and then migrate vm's
> to the upgraded NFS server later. Will that even work, or will it break
> somehow?
>

What you are asking for is generally called hyper-convergence. We tried to
have it for 3.6 with glusterfs on each node but it wasn't valuated stable
enough to  be released. We are still working on that for the next release.


> Any advice for a new install would be welcome.
>
> Thank you
>
> Cheers,
> Gervais
>
>
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[ovirt-users] Setting up oVirt for the first time

[Gervais de Montbrun]

Hi All,

I've done a lot of reading and lots of comparison of different hypervisors and 
tools and have decided that oVirt would be the best option. My initial use case 
is a not too new server that I will setup to run multiple development 
environments for the devs here, but I wanted something that will scale out to 
production as the vm infrastructure, hardware, etc. grows here.

I'll soon have a second server to run my vm's on and want to setup a 
self-hosted engine. I'm trying to find the most recent version of a how-to on 
the same. I found a presentation showing off how much easier it is to do this 
in oVirt 3.6 but can't find the correct docs. I seem to always end up with 3.5 
or older versions. Can someone point me at a how-to of how to best achieve 
this. 

Also, while I have you all here... :-)
Is it possible to setup the hypervisor hosts themselves as NFS servers to 
create Storage (I realize that this will play havoc with the HA). We do have an 
NFS server that we will be upgrading to add storage and faster drives, but I 
was thinking that I may be able to use the internal storage of the hypervisors 
themselves as a short term stopgap and then migrate vm's to the upgraded NFS 
server later. Will that even work, or will it break somehow?

Any advice for a new install would be welcome.

Thank you 

Cheers,
Gervais

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