Re: Google Apps

[John Hart]

On 2/15/2018 11:20 AM, Dave Fisher wrote:

Hi -

On Feb 15, 2018, at 10:12 AM, John Hart > wrote:


The responses to this post provide convincing evidence that
OSS needs public funding (tax credits)


This is a completely different topic and many might disagree with your 
conclusion. Please explain how tax credits would help in detail.


OpenOffice is downloaded into almost every country in the world. The 
ASF is a non-profit under US law and donations may be tax deductible.


All business expenses are tax deductible! Correctly designed tax credits 
can induce economic forces in
markets so they solve problems only evolutionary systems can. But that's 
not the primary reason OSS
is needed. Without the source, it's all but impossible to determine if a 
computer system is secure, and
in light of the fact power corrupts, what is evolving gets more 
dangerous each day. Downloading anything
that isn't open, is like inviting a stranger into ones house. Everything 
is fine until it isn't, then it's too late

to do anything about it.

There are things necessary to providing good service, programmers 
donating time don't understand
and wouldn't want to do if they did, because they're mundane, time 
consuming grunt work, so they
don't get done, and over time failure to do those things will undermine 
the best of intention.


The details of tax credits would have to be worked out by a number of 
people, I have some ideas but
discussing them is beyond the scope of my input now. What is clear now 
is code can be dangerous,

and without checks and balances, disaster is all but guaranteed.

Had sun been given credit for it's contribution to OSS, it still might 
exist, but companies that do what's
ethically right, have  a serious disadvantage competing with companies 
that don't. Tax credits are the
only way I can see to correct this problem, if you have any other ideas, 
feel free to express them.


jrh

*Sun Microsystems, Inc.*_*Was*_ an American company 
 which sold ...
Sun was a proponent of open systems in general and acquired software 
such as StarOffice ,...
Sun was the largest corporate contributor to open source movements in 
the world.^[77] 
 ,
Sun's open source contributions exceed the combined total of the next 
five largest commercial contributors.


Oracle Corporation  
acquired Sun  
for US$7.4 billion...

Re: Google Apps

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

> On Feb 15, 2018, at 10:12 AM, John Hart  wrote:
> 
> The responses to this post provide convincing evidence that
> OSS needs public funding (tax credits)

This is a completely different topic and many might disagree with your 
conclusion. Please explain how tax credits would help in detail.

OpenOffice is downloaded into almost every country in the world. The ASF is a 
non-profit under US law and donations may be tax deductible.

See http://www.apache.org/foundation/contributing.html

Regards,
Dave



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Re: Google Apps

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

I’m not sure that you want help here, but if you have a bug to report then 
please do so with meaningful information along with respect for the volunteers 
from the OpenOffice community.

I think you know what meaningful information is needed, but here you go;

OS?
Version of OpenOffice? Did you get it from www.openoffice.org/download/?
Do you have a spreadsheet that shows the problem?
What steps do you follow that recreates the trouble?

You might also try:

Https://forum.openoffice.org/

Or,

Https://biz.apache.org/ooo/

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2018, at 1:31 PM, Winter  wrote:
> 
> This is why after years I have now stopped using Open Office and switched to 
> Google Apps. I am a programmer. I quickly dump software that does not comply 
> to User Ergonomics. It should be simple and intuitive. Especially the 
> simplest task. All I wanted was to set up a budget like I have many time in 
> Open Office but the Sum command now does not sum. Why? I read online 
> suggestions which mentioned it could have something to do with the value 
> being treated as Text with no explanation to convert them to numerical 
> values. It seemed quickly much easier to sign in to Google. Goodbye. I have 
> little patience when companies make simple tasks complicated.
> 
> 
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Re: Fwd: Re: Google Apps

[toki]

On 02/15/2018 12:30 PM, Winter wrote:

> My opinion is correct 

Your opinion holds water for you, and you alone.

For other people, your opinion is not only flat out wrong, but also
anti-intuitive, counter-productive, and guarantee to ensure zero
productivity.

>If this is the way your Tech responds to customers 

You do realize that you are not communicating with tech support, don't you?

>I can see why you create an inferior product. 

Inferior/superior has to do with the specific use case for which the
product is being used. For some use cases, Apache OpenOffice is several
orders of magnitude superior to Microsoft Office.  For other user cases,
the reverse is true.

>You could have listened to my concerns instead you want to

What is intuitive for one person, is anything but intuitive for another
person. Consider, for example, the difference between somebody who
learned keyboarding using vi, and somebody who learned keyboarding using
EMACS, and somebody who learnt keyboarding using WordStar.

All three users will be more productive (^1) in the environment that
they learned keyboarding in, than using a GUI interface. However, for
somebody who learned keyboarding via a GUI, vi, EMACS, and WordStar are
incomprehensible mysteries that are grossly inefficient.

>You know damn well the intent of my sentence 

>From where I'm sitting, your intent is either to prove that your IQ is
the reciprocal of what you claim it is, or else that you have zero
knowledge about keyboarding, data entry, or even computers in general
--- including how to use basic office software.

> product should not be so complicated that I have to dig through forums to do 
> your job.

The job of the user is to learn what their tools are, and how to use
them. People that can't be bothered learning what their tools are, and
how to use them, find everything complicated.


^1: The research implies that a knowledgable user is more than twice as
productive using keyboard commands, and GUI commands.


jonathon

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Re: Google Apps

[Dave Fisher]

Hi - even though we are ALL VOLUNTEERS! We can be more polite. Fight fire with 
water not more fire.

Winter should be asked to provide an example and which OS/version he has. If 
the SUM function has broken then perhaps a VOLUNTEER developer can debug.

Thanks to the VOLUNTEERS here, but let’s be nice to people. We are all PEOPLE 
here and not a CORPORATION.

Thanks,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 15, 2018, at 7:11 AM, Howard Blum  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for your spot on comments Wade.
> 
>> On Feb 15, 2018 6:56 AM, "Wade Smart"  wrote:
>> 
>> HAHAA
>> 
>> You talk like what you say means something to someone other than you.
>> It does not. You spout off names of things you have done and yet, you
>> do not know how to input values into a simple spread sheet.
>> 
>> Your criticism is laughable. You are a drive by spammer to the list!!
>> You did not ask for help. You didnt hardly state the problem. You started
>> bitching like a little child. What is very clear is you either cant or
>> wont read
>> or understand what is being told to you about what you call tech support
>> and you have a massively overinflated view of yourself and your claimed
>> skills.
>> "I know what I am doing and your software is not intuitive." HAHAH  What is
>> funny is - you are bitch queen. That is someone who spams just to bitch.
>> You dont what answers or help but to bitch. Mostly about yourself.
>> 
>> How sad a person you must be. I feel sorry for you. Good luck
>> --
>> Registered Linux User: #480675
>> Registered Linux Machine: #408606
>> Linux since June 2005
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 6:59 AM, Winter 
>> wrote:
>>> I am tired of companies creating inferior products. I hate MS. My OS
>> lasts
>>> about 6 months before Groove stops working and then all I get is a...
>> oops
>>> something went wrong, as tech support which is better than Googling HEX
>>> codes only to find a page of Google response trying to get me to install
>> a
>>> RegCleaner. I do not like having to google for tech support over a simple
>>> Sum command. I know how to create Spreadsheets. I created United Ways
>> Fund
>>> Distribution Spreadhseets in Excel for our local chapter interconnecting
>> 64
>>> agencies. I have done volunteer work for years creating customized sheets
>>> with VB. I program in C++, Assembler, Fortran, Cobol, VB. I was an IIS
>> Admin
>>> and Database designer in SQL for a major company and created an Intranet
>>> before they existed. I taught myself to code in HEX at 16 by taking the
>> OS
>>> apart. I know what I am doing and your software is not intuitive. And if
>> you
>>> don't like the criticism I don't care. Your job as tech support is not to
>>> insult me. Period. No matter how much I piss you off. You may not like my
>>> attitude but I am tired of having software that is doesn't do what it
>> should
>>> do.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 2/15/2018 6:46 AM, Winter wrote:
 
 I had just opened the Sheet. There was no formatting. I understand the
 distinction in how to see if it is text. It did not appear to be text. I
 copied the values per the instructions from a forum using the Value
>> command
 from the cells into the adjacent column and still it did not recognize
>> the
 numbers as text. I was programming in HEX modularly when you were in
 Kindergarten. I have an IQ over 160. I do not need your condescension in
 remarking that perhaps I need something simple. Your job as tech
>> support is
 to consider the input from your customers not to take amateurish cheap
 shots. You have a problem with your product. Perhaps if you would
>> listen to
 your customers instead of taking juvenile asinine responses.
 
 
> On 2/15/2018 6:38 AM, Winter wrote:
> 
> I had just opened the Sheet. There was no formatting. I understand the
> distinction in how to see if it is text. It did not appear to be text.
>> I
> copied the values from the cells into the adjacent column and still it
>> did
> not recognize the numbers as text. I was programming in HEX modularly
>> when
> you were in Kindergarten. I have an IQ over 160. I do not need your
> condescension in remarking that perhaps I need something simple. Your
>> job as
> tech support is to consider the input from your customers not to take
> amateurish cheap shots. You have a problem with your product. Perhaps
>> if you
> would listen to your customers instead of taking juvenile asinine
>> responses.
 
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: 

Re: Google Apps

[Howard Blum]

Thanks for your spot on comments Wade.

On Feb 15, 2018 6:56 AM, "Wade Smart"  wrote:

> HAHAA
>
> You talk like what you say means something to someone other than you.
> It does not. You spout off names of things you have done and yet, you
> do not know how to input values into a simple spread sheet.
>
> Your criticism is laughable. You are a drive by spammer to the list!!
> You did not ask for help. You didnt hardly state the problem. You started
> bitching like a little child. What is very clear is you either cant or
> wont read
> or understand what is being told to you about what you call tech support
> and you have a massively overinflated view of yourself and your claimed
> skills.
> "I know what I am doing and your software is not intuitive." HAHAH  What is
> funny is - you are bitch queen. That is someone who spams just to bitch.
> You dont what answers or help but to bitch. Mostly about yourself.
>
> How sad a person you must be. I feel sorry for you. Good luck
> --
> Registered Linux User: #480675
> Registered Linux Machine: #408606
> Linux since June 2005
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 6:59 AM, Winter 
> wrote:
> > I am tired of companies creating inferior products. I hate MS. My OS
> lasts
> > about 6 months before Groove stops working and then all I get is a...
> oops
> > something went wrong, as tech support which is better than Googling HEX
> > codes only to find a page of Google response trying to get me to install
> a
> > RegCleaner. I do not like having to google for tech support over a simple
> > Sum command. I know how to create Spreadsheets. I created United Ways
> Fund
> > Distribution Spreadhseets in Excel for our local chapter interconnecting
> 64
> > agencies. I have done volunteer work for years creating customized sheets
> > with VB. I program in C++, Assembler, Fortran, Cobol, VB. I was an IIS
> Admin
> > and Database designer in SQL for a major company and created an Intranet
> > before they existed. I taught myself to code in HEX at 16 by taking the
> OS
> > apart. I know what I am doing and your software is not intuitive. And if
> you
> > don't like the criticism I don't care. Your job as tech support is not to
> > insult me. Period. No matter how much I piss you off. You may not like my
> > attitude but I am tired of having software that is doesn't do what it
> should
> > do.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2/15/2018 6:46 AM, Winter wrote:
> >>
> >> I had just opened the Sheet. There was no formatting. I understand the
> >> distinction in how to see if it is text. It did not appear to be text. I
> >> copied the values per the instructions from a forum using the Value
> command
> >> from the cells into the adjacent column and still it did not recognize
> the
> >> numbers as text. I was programming in HEX modularly when you were in
> >> Kindergarten. I have an IQ over 160. I do not need your condescension in
> >> remarking that perhaps I need something simple. Your job as tech
> support is
> >> to consider the input from your customers not to take amateurish cheap
> >> shots. You have a problem with your product. Perhaps if you would
> listen to
> >> your customers instead of taking juvenile asinine responses.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2/15/2018 6:38 AM, Winter wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I had just opened the Sheet. There was no formatting. I understand the
> >>> distinction in how to see if it is text. It did not appear to be text.
> I
> >>> copied the values from the cells into the adjacent column and still it
> did
> >>> not recognize the numbers as text. I was programming in HEX modularly
> when
> >>> you were in Kindergarten. I have an IQ over 160. I do not need your
> >>> condescension in remarking that perhaps I need something simple. Your
> job as
> >>> tech support is to consider the input from your customers not to take
> >>> amateurish cheap shots. You have a problem with your product. Perhaps
> if you
> >>> would listen to your customers instead of taking juvenile asinine
> responses.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: Google Apps

[Wade Smart]

HAHAA

You talk like what you say means something to someone other than you.
It does not. You spout off names of things you have done and yet, you
do not know how to input values into a simple spread sheet.

Your criticism is laughable. You are a drive by spammer to the list!!
You did not ask for help. You didnt hardly state the problem. You started
bitching like a little child. What is very clear is you either cant or wont read
or understand what is being told to you about what you call tech support
and you have a massively overinflated view of yourself and your claimed skills.
"I know what I am doing and your software is not intuitive." HAHAH  What is
funny is - you are bitch queen. That is someone who spams just to bitch.
You dont what answers or help but to bitch. Mostly about yourself.

How sad a person you must be. I feel sorry for you. Good luck
--
Registered Linux User: #480675
Registered Linux Machine: #408606
Linux since June 2005


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 6:59 AM, Winter  wrote:
> I am tired of companies creating inferior products. I hate MS. My OS lasts
> about 6 months before Groove stops working and then all I get is a... oops
> something went wrong, as tech support which is better than Googling HEX
> codes only to find a page of Google response trying to get me to install a
> RegCleaner. I do not like having to google for tech support over a simple
> Sum command. I know how to create Spreadsheets. I created United Ways Fund
> Distribution Spreadhseets in Excel for our local chapter interconnecting 64
> agencies. I have done volunteer work for years creating customized sheets
> with VB. I program in C++, Assembler, Fortran, Cobol, VB. I was an IIS Admin
> and Database designer in SQL for a major company and created an Intranet
> before they existed. I taught myself to code in HEX at 16 by taking the OS
> apart. I know what I am doing and your software is not intuitive. And if you
> don't like the criticism I don't care. Your job as tech support is not to
> insult me. Period. No matter how much I piss you off. You may not like my
> attitude but I am tired of having software that is doesn't do what it should
> do.
>
>
>
> On 2/15/2018 6:46 AM, Winter wrote:
>>
>> I had just opened the Sheet. There was no formatting. I understand the
>> distinction in how to see if it is text. It did not appear to be text. I
>> copied the values per the instructions from a forum using the Value command
>> from the cells into the adjacent column and still it did not recognize the
>> numbers as text. I was programming in HEX modularly when you were in
>> Kindergarten. I have an IQ over 160. I do not need your condescension in
>> remarking that perhaps I need something simple. Your job as tech support is
>> to consider the input from your customers not to take amateurish cheap
>> shots. You have a problem with your product. Perhaps if you would listen to
>> your customers instead of taking juvenile asinine responses.
>>
>>
>> On 2/15/2018 6:38 AM, Winter wrote:
>>>
>>> I had just opened the Sheet. There was no formatting. I understand the
>>> distinction in how to see if it is text. It did not appear to be text. I
>>> copied the values from the cells into the adjacent column and still it did
>>> not recognize the numbers as text. I was programming in HEX modularly when
>>> you were in Kindergarten. I have an IQ over 160. I do not need your
>>> condescension in remarking that perhaps I need something simple. Your job as
>>> tech support is to consider the input from your customers not to take
>>> amateurish cheap shots. You have a problem with your product. Perhaps if you
>>> would listen to your customers instead of taking juvenile asinine responses.
>>
>>
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
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>

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Re: Google Apps

[Howard Blum]

Can't someone pull the plug on this world class jerk?

On Feb 15, 2018 5:15 AM, "Winter"  wrote:

> I am tired of companies creating inferior products. I hate MS. My OS lasts
> about 6 months before Groove stops working and then all I get is a... oops
> something went wrong, as tech support which is better than Googling HEX
> codes only to find a page of Google response trying to get me to install a
> RegCleaner. I do not like having to google for tech support over a simple
> Sum command. I know how to create Spreadsheets. I created United Ways Fund
> Distribution Spreadhseets in Excel for our local chapter interconnecting 64
> agencies. I have done volunteer work for years creating customized sheets
> with VB. I program in C++, Assembler, Fortran, Cobol, VB. I was an IIS
> Admin and Database designer in SQL for a major company and created an
> Intranet before they existed. I taught myself to code in HEX at 16 by
> taking the OS apart. I know what I am doing and your software is not
> intuitive. And if you don't like the criticism I don't care. Your job as
> tech support is not to insult me. Period. No matter how much I piss you
> off. You may not like my attitude but I am tired of having software that is
> doesn't do what it should do.
>
>
> On 2/15/2018 6:46 AM, Winter wrote:
>
>> I had just opened the Sheet. There was no formatting. I understand the
>> distinction in how to see if it is text. It did not appear to be text. I
>> copied the values per the instructions from a forum using the Value
>> command  from the cells into the adjacent column and still it did not
>> recognize the numbers as text. I was programming in HEX modularly when you
>> were in Kindergarten. I have an IQ over 160. I do not need your
>> condescension in remarking that perhaps I need something simple. Your job
>> as tech support is to consider the input from your customers not to take
>> amateurish cheap shots. You have a problem with your product. Perhaps if
>> you would listen to your customers instead of taking juvenile asinine
>> responses.
>>
>>
>> On 2/15/2018 6:38 AM, Winter wrote:
>>
>>> I had just opened the Sheet. There was no formatting. I understand the
>>> distinction in how to see if it is text. It did not appear to be text. I
>>> copied the values from the cells into the adjacent column and still it did
>>> not recognize the numbers as text. I was programming in HEX modularly when
>>> you were in Kindergarten. I have an IQ over 160. I do not need your
>>> condescension in remarking that perhaps I need something simple. Your job
>>> as tech support is to consider the input from your customers not to take
>>> amateurish cheap shots. You have a problem with your product. Perhaps if
>>> you would listen to your customers instead of taking juvenile asinine
>>> responses.
>>>
>>
>>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: Google Apps

[Winter]

I am tired of companies creating inferior products. I hate MS. My OS 
lasts about 6 months before Groove stops working and then all I get is 
a... oops something went wrong, as tech support which is better than 
Googling HEX codes only to find a page of Google response trying to get 
me to install a RegCleaner. I do not like having to google for tech 
support over a simple Sum command. I know how to create Spreadsheets. I 
created United Ways Fund Distribution Spreadhseets in Excel for our 
local chapter interconnecting 64 agencies. I have done volunteer work 
for years creating customized sheets with VB. I program in C++, 
Assembler, Fortran, Cobol, VB. I was an IIS Admin and Database designer 
in SQL for a major company and created an Intranet before they existed. 
I taught myself to code in HEX at 16 by taking the OS apart. I know what 
I am doing and your software is not intuitive. And if you don't like the 
criticism I don't care. Your job as tech support is not to insult me. 
Period. No matter how much I piss you off. You may not like my attitude 
but I am tired of having software that is doesn't do what it should do.



On 2/15/2018 6:46 AM, Winter wrote:
I had just opened the Sheet. There was no formatting. I understand the 
distinction in how to see if it is text. It did not appear to be text. 
I copied the values per the instructions from a forum using the Value 
command  from the cells into the adjacent column and still it did not 
recognize the numbers as text. I was programming in HEX modularly when 
you were in Kindergarten. I have an IQ over 160. I do not need your 
condescension in remarking that perhaps I need something simple. Your 
job as tech support is to consider the input from your customers not 
to take amateurish cheap shots. You have a problem with your product. 
Perhaps if you would listen to your customers instead of taking 
juvenile asinine responses.



On 2/15/2018 6:38 AM, Winter wrote:
I had just opened the Sheet. There was no formatting. I understand 
the distinction in how to see if it is text. It did not appear to be 
text. I copied the values from the cells into the adjacent column and 
still it did not recognize the numbers as text. I was programming in 
HEX modularly when you were in Kindergarten. I have an IQ over 160. I 
do not need your condescension in remarking that perhaps I need 
something simple. Your job as tech support is to consider the input 
from your customers not to take amateurish cheap shots. You have a 
problem with your product. Perhaps if you would listen to your 
customers instead of taking juvenile asinine responses. 





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Re: Google Apps

[Wade Smart]

Isnt it interesting that while spamming the list you still do not
understand that - it is NOT tech support, you are talking to
ordinary, every day, technical and non users and it is your
attitude and most likely overstated skills that are on display.
You are not a customer. You are a user. You downloaded the
software free of charge, free to use, free to fail on your own.
How sad it is you can not step back and see your own issues
but choose to thrash everyone else.
--
Registered Linux User: #480675
Registered Linux Machine: #408606
Linux since June 2005


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 6:22 AM, Winter  wrote:
> My point. I have never seen Tech Support so unprofessional ever. I don't
> care if you like my attitude you do not troll former customers.
>
>
> At 15:31 14/02/2018 -0600, you wrote:
>
>> This is why after years I have now stopped using Open Office and switched
>> to Google Apps.
>
>
> Ah, so you have been using it successfully for years?
>
>> I am a programmer.
>
>
> Good: so you'll know what you are doing, then.
>
>> I quickly dump software that does not comply to User Ergonomics.
>
>
> Er, hold on: you are dumping OpenOffice "quickly" after using it for years?
> That makes no sense at all!
>
>> It should be simple and intuitive. Especially the simplest task.
>
>
> Yes, matters should be made as simple as passable, but that is by no means
> always trivial. If I buy a piano, I don't expect playing the Moonlight
> Sonata to come easily: I have to learn how to operate the instrument. If I
> buy a car, I don't expect to be able to complete the "simplest task" of
> driving to work without extensive lessons and setting up fuel, licensing,
> insurance, and so on. Using computer software is similar: you need to expect
> to learn how to drive it before you can be proficient. It's very difficult
> to see how you are a programmer but apparently do not appreciate this simple
> idea.
>
>> All I wanted was to set up a budget like I have many time in Open Office
>> but the Sum command now does not sum.
>
>
> Well, it does, of course - and you know it does, as you have used it before.
> Nothing has changed. Simple logic implies that you are now simply doing
> something different to create your problem, although you may well not
> recognise this.
>
>> Why? I read online suggestions which mentioned it could have something to
>> do with the value being treated as Text with no explanation to convert them
>> to numerical values.
>
>
> If you don't understand this distinction, you are very much a beginner at
> using spreadsheets - and you will find the same problem whichever
> spreadsheet software you choose to use - yes, even Google's. What you see is
> *not* what you get in spreadsheets, and never has been:
>
> o What is displayed in a spreadsheet cell is a *version* of the value hidden
> in that cell, according to the formatting of that cell - which you may have
> set explicitly or may have been determined from what you typed or pasted.
> For your spreadsheets to work, you need to be aware of the format type of
> all your data.
>
> o When you type values into a spreadsheet, they are - possibly invisibly -
> edited by the software to determine what is actually stored in the cell.
> This is a convenience, in fact, but will confuse you if you have not learned
> the basics about spreadsheets. (You will not be the first person to make
> this mistake.)
>
>> It seemed quickly much easier to sign in to Google. Goodbye.
>
>
> You are very welcome, of course, to choose to use any alternative software
> you wish. Yes, really. But if speed means to you avoiding learning about the
> tool and about your own mistakes, you will find the same problems in the
> future. Google's offering will behave in a very similar way; if it didn't,
> users would be complaining! In particular, if you enter your data there *in
> exactly the same way* (do not confuse typing with pasting, for example), you
> will see the same results there. Why not - instead of complaining that
> OpenOffice doesn't work - ask about your problem on the mailing list and
> learn the solution?
>
>> I have little patience when companies make simple tasks complicated.
>
>
> Again, this makes no sense:
> o You cannot say that you have "little patience" with something after
> claiming to have used it for years!
> o Surely you know enough about OpenOffice to appreciate that it is created
> by a cooperative venture, not a "company"?
> o Like most things, when you understand it, you will find the way
> spreadsheets work a convenience, not a complication.
>
> OK: now to your problem. If you have managed to enter values as text instead
> of as numbers, you will not expect to be able to calculate with them. But
> there are easy solutions. You may need to set the format of cells before you
> enter data (though you probably don't, in fact). If you have entered values
> inappropriately, there are easy ways to correct your mistake. You can find
> these in the help 

Re: Fwd: Re: Google Apps

[Matthias Seidel]

Please don't SPAM our mailing list!
We are all volunteers. There is no company and there are no employees.

Take a deep breath and try to understand the world around you...


Am 15.02.2018 um 13:40 schrieb Winter:
> This is inappropriate. My comments may have been rude. But I am not
> your employ.
>
>
>
>  Forwarded Message ----
> Subject: Re: Google Apps
> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 09:57:15 +
> From: Brian Barker <b.m.bar...@btinternet.com>
> To: Gary Leroy Wampnar <garyleroywamp...@gmail.com>
>
>
>
> At 15:31 14/02/2018 -0600, you wrote:
>> This is why after years I have now stopped using Open Office and
>> switched to Google Apps.
>
> Ah, so you have been using it successfully for years?
>
>> I am a programmer.
>
> Good: so you'll know what you are doing, then.
>
>> I quickly dump software that does not comply to User Ergonomics.
>
> Er, hold on: you are dumping OpenOffice "quickly" after using it for
> years? That makes no sense at all!
>
>> It should be simple and intuitive. Especially the simplest task.
>
> Yes, matters should be made as simple as passable, but that is by no
> means always trivial. If I buy a piano, I don't expect playing the
> Moonlight Sonata to come easily: I have to learn how to operate the
> instrument. If I buy a car, I don't expect to be able to complete the
> "simplest task" of driving to work without extensive lessons and
> setting up fuel, licensing, insurance, and so on. Using computer
> software is similar: you need to expect to learn how to drive it
> before you can be proficient. It's very difficult to see how you are
> a programmer but apparently do not appreciate this simple idea.
>
>> All I wanted was to set up a budget like I have many time in Open
>> Office but the Sum command now does not sum.
>
> Well, it does, of course - and you know it does, as you have used it
> before. Nothing has changed. Simple logic implies that you are now
> simply doing something different to create your problem, although you
> may well not recognise this.
>
>> Why? I read online suggestions which mentioned it could have
>> something to do with the value being treated as Text with no
>> explanation to convert them to numerical values.
>
> If you don't understand this distinction, you are very much a
> beginner at using spreadsheets - and you will find the same problem
> whichever spreadsheet software you choose to use - yes, even
> Google's. What you see is *not* what you get in spreadsheets, and
> never has been:
>
> o What is displayed in a spreadsheet cell is a *version* of the value
> hidden in that cell, according to the formatting of that cell - which
> you may have set explicitly or may have been determined from what you
> typed or pasted. For your spreadsheets to work, you need to be aware
> of the format type of all your data.
>
> o When you type values into a spreadsheet, they are - possibly
> invisibly - edited by the software to determine what is actually
> stored in the cell. This is a convenience, in fact, but will confuse
> you if you have not learned the basics about spreadsheets. (You will
> not be the first person to make this mistake.)
>
>> It seemed quickly much easier to sign in to Google. Goodbye.
>
> You are very welcome, of course, to choose to use any alternative
> software you wish. Yes, really. But if speed means to you avoiding
> learning about the tool and about your own mistakes, you will find
> the same problems in the future. Google's offering will behave in a
> very similar way; if it didn't, users would be complaining! In
> particular, if you enter your data there *in exactly the same way*
> (do not confuse typing with pasting, for example), you will see the
> same results there. Why not - instead of complaining that OpenOffice
> doesn't work - ask about your problem on the mailing list and learn
> the solution?
>
>> I have little patience when companies make simple tasks complicated.
>
> Again, this makes no sense:
> o You cannot say that you have "little patience" with something after
> claiming to have used it for years!
> o Surely you know enough about OpenOffice to appreciate that it is
> created by a cooperative venture, not a "company"?
> o Like most things, when you understand it, you will find the way
> spreadsheets work a convenience, not a complication.
>
> OK: now to your problem. If you have managed to enter values as text
> instead of as numbers, you will not expect to be able to calculate
> with them. But there are easy solutions. You may need to set the
> format of cells before you enter data (though you probably don't, in
> f

Fwd: Re: Google Apps

[Winter]

My opinion is correct and I don't take time with people whose responses 
are nothing more than to inflame. I was your customer. If this is the 
way your Tech rsponds to customers I can see why you create an inferior 
product. You could have listened to my concerns instead you want to 
defend yourself by attacking me. I made the comment that I quickly 
changed to Google Apps and one smart ass responded... o I thought you 
used it for years. There is no reason to respond to you. You know damn 
well the intent of my sentence and if you think masquerading as Forum 
Troll is the same as providing tech support. I stand by what I said your 
product should not be so complicated that I have to dig through forums 
to do your job.


 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: Google Apps
Date:   Thu, 15 Feb 2018 09:40:17 +1100
From:   Martin Groenescheij <mar...@groenescheij.com>
Reply-To:   users@openoffice.apache.org
To: users@openoffice.apache.org
CC: Winter <garyleroywamp...@gmail.com>



This mailing list is to get help from users like you and me.
As you're not subscribed to this mailing list and haven't asked for help


On 15/02/18 8:31 AM, Winter wrote:
This is why after years I have now stopped using Open Office and 
switched to Google Apps. I am a programmer.


I expect from programmers that they know the difference between
importing Numbers and Text.

I quickly dump software that does not comply to User Ergonomics. It 
should be simple and intuitive. Especially the simplest task.


Then Google Apps. is the tool for you, please come back when you need to
do more complex tasks.

All I wanted was to set up a budget like I have many time in Open 
Office but the Sum command now does not sum. Why? I read online 
suggestions which mentioned it could have something to do with the 
value being treated as Text with no explanation to convert them to 
numerical values.


If you have Cells formatted as Text it will store imported values as
text, at the top you can see a ` in front of the number when stored as text.
Changing the Cell format to numeric doesn't help.  You can use a formula
like =VALUE(A1:A25) in a empty column and Paste Special the result
back into Column A with only the numeric option ticked.

It seemed quickly much easier to sign in to Google. Goodbye. I have 
little patience when companies make simple tasks complicated.



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To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
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Re: Google Apps

[Winter]

My point. I have never seen Tech Support so unprofessional ever. I don't 
care if you like my attitude you do not troll former customers.



At 15:31 14/02/2018 -0600, you wrote:

This is why after years I have now stopped using Open Office and 
switched to Google Apps.


Ah, so you have been using it successfully for years?


I am a programmer.


Good: so you'll know what you are doing, then.


I quickly dump software that does not comply to User Ergonomics.


Er, hold on: you are dumping OpenOffice "quickly" after using it for 
years? That makes no sense at all!



It should be simple and intuitive. Especially the simplest task.


Yes, matters should be made as simple as passable, but that is by no 
means always trivial. If I buy a piano, I don't expect playing the 
Moonlight Sonata to come easily: I have to learn how to operate the 
instrument. If I buy a car, I don't expect to be able to complete the 
"simplest task" of driving to work without extensive lessons and setting 
up fuel, licensing, insurance, and so on. Using computer software is 
similar: you need to expect to learn how to drive it before you can be 
proficient. It's very difficult to see how you are a programmer but 
apparently do not appreciate this simple idea.


All I wanted was to set up a budget like I have many time in Open 
Office but the Sum command now does not sum.


Well, it does, of course - and you know it does, as you have used it 
before. Nothing has changed. Simple logic implies that you are now 
simply doing something different to create your problem, although you 
may well not recognise this.


Why? I read online suggestions which mentioned it could have something 
to do with the value being treated as Text with no explanation to 
convert them to numerical values.


If you don't understand this distinction, you are very much a beginner 
at using spreadsheets - and you will find the same problem whichever 
spreadsheet software you choose to use - yes, even Google's. What you 
see is *not* what you get in spreadsheets, and never has been:


o What is displayed in a spreadsheet cell is a *version* of the value 
hidden in that cell, according to the formatting of that cell - which 
you may have set explicitly or may have been determined from what you 
typed or pasted. For your spreadsheets to work, you need to be aware of 
the format type of all your data.


o When you type values into a spreadsheet, they are - possibly invisibly 
- edited by the software to determine what is actually stored in the 
cell. This is a convenience, in fact, but will confuse you if you have 
not learned the basics about spreadsheets. (You will not be the first 
person to make this mistake.)



It seemed quickly much easier to sign in to Google. Goodbye.


You are very welcome, of course, to choose to use any alternative 
software you wish. Yes, really. But if speed means to you avoiding 
learning about the tool and about your own mistakes, you will find the 
same problems in the future. Google's offering will behave in a very 
similar way; if it didn't, users would be complaining! In particular, if 
you enter your data there *in exactly the same way* (do not confuse 
typing with pasting, for example), you will see the same results there. 
Why not - instead of complaining that OpenOffice doesn't work - ask 
about your problem on the mailing list and learn the solution?



I have little patience when companies make simple tasks complicated.


Again, this makes no sense:
o You cannot say that you have "little patience" with something after 
claiming to have used it for years!
o Surely you know enough about OpenOffice to appreciate that it is 
created by a cooperative venture, not a "company"?
o Like most things, when you understand it, you will find the way 
spreadsheets work a convenience, not a complication.


OK: now to your problem. If you have managed to enter values as text 
instead of as numbers, you will not expect to be able to calculate with 
them. But there are easy solutions. You may need to set the format of 
cells before you enter data (though you probably don't, in fact). If you 
have entered values inappropriately, there are easy ways to correct your 
mistake. You can find these in the help text, in the documentation 
available from the web site (you have read this, haven't you?), through 
a web search, or by asking on this mailing list.


It always amuses me when people making such claims choose to advertise 
them to hundreds, perhaps a thousand or two, of fellow users around the 
world, most of whom will understand the software well enough not to find 
the same problems. Why not describe your problem instead and obtain help?


I trust this helps.

Brian Barker - privately

On 2/14/2018 3:31 PM, Winter wrote:
This is why after years I have now stopped using Open Office and 
switched to Google Apps. I am a programmer. I quickly dump software 
that does not comply to User Ergonomics. It should be simple and 
intuitive. Especially the 

Re: Google Apps

[Winter]

On 2/14/2018 4:40 PM, Martin Groenescheij wrote:

This mailing list is to get help from users like you and me.
As you're not subscribed to this mailing list and haven't asked for help


On 15/02/18 8:31 AM, Winter wrote:
This is why after years I have now stopped using Open Office and 
switched to Google Apps. I am a programmer.


I expect from programmers that they know the difference between 
importing Numbers and Text.


I quickly dump software that does not comply to User Ergonomics. It 
should be simple and intuitive. Especially the simplest task.


Then Google Apps. is the tool for you, please come back when you need 
to do more complex tasks.


All I wanted was to set up a budget like I have many time in Open 
Office but the Sum command now does not sum. Why? I read online 
suggestions which mentioned it could have something to do with the 
value being treated as Text with no explanation to convert them to 
numerical values.


If you have Cells formatted as Text it will store imported values as 
text, at the top you can see a ` in front of the number when stored as 
text.
Changing the Cell format to numeric doesn't help.  You can use a 
formula like =VALUE(A1:A25) in a empty column and Paste Special the 
result

back into Column A with only the numeric option ticked.


I had just opened the Sheet. There was no formatting. I understand the 
distinction in how to see if it is text. It did not appear to be text. I 
copied the values from the cells into the adjacent column and still it 
did not recognize the numbers as text. I was programming in HEX 
modularly when you were in Kindergarten. I have an IQ over 160. I do not 
need your condescension in remarking that perhaps I need something 
simple. Your job as tech support is to consider the input from your 
customers not to take amateurish  cheap shots. You have a problem with 
your product. Perhaps if you would listen to your customers instead of 
taking juvenile asinine responses.


It seemed quickly much easier to sign in to Google. Goodbye. I have 
little patience when companies make simple tasks complicated.



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Fwd: Re: Google Apps

[Winter]

This is inappropriate. My comments may have been rude. But I am not your 
employ.




 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: Google Apps
Date:   Thu, 15 Feb 2018 09:57:15 +
From:   Brian Barker <b.m.bar...@btinternet.com>
To: Gary Leroy Wampnar <garyleroywamp...@gmail.com>



At 15:31 14/02/2018 -0600, you wrote:
This is why after years I have now stopped using Open Office and 
switched to Google Apps.


Ah, so you have been using it successfully for years?


I am a programmer.


Good: so you'll know what you are doing, then.


I quickly dump software that does not comply to User Ergonomics.


Er, hold on: you are dumping OpenOffice "quickly" after using it for
years? That makes no sense at all!


It should be simple and intuitive. Especially the simplest task.


Yes, matters should be made as simple as passable, but that is by no
means always trivial. If I buy a piano, I don't expect playing the
Moonlight Sonata to come easily: I have to learn how to operate the
instrument. If I buy a car, I don't expect to be able to complete the
"simplest task" of driving to work without extensive lessons and
setting up fuel, licensing, insurance, and so on. Using computer
software is similar: you need to expect to learn how to drive it
before you can be proficient. It's very difficult to see how you are
a programmer but apparently do not appreciate this simple idea.

All I wanted was to set up a budget like I have many time in Open 
Office but the Sum command now does not sum.


Well, it does, of course - and you know it does, as you have used it
before. Nothing has changed. Simple logic implies that you are now
simply doing something different to create your problem, although you
may well not recognise this.

Why? I read online suggestions which mentioned it could have 
something to do with the value being treated as Text with no 
explanation to convert them to numerical values.


If you don't understand this distinction, you are very much a
beginner at using spreadsheets - and you will find the same problem
whichever spreadsheet software you choose to use - yes, even
Google's. What you see is *not* what you get in spreadsheets, and
never has been:

o What is displayed in a spreadsheet cell is a *version* of the value
hidden in that cell, according to the formatting of that cell - which
you may have set explicitly or may have been determined from what you
typed or pasted. For your spreadsheets to work, you need to be aware
of the format type of all your data.

o When you type values into a spreadsheet, they are - possibly
invisibly - edited by the software to determine what is actually
stored in the cell. This is a convenience, in fact, but will confuse
you if you have not learned the basics about spreadsheets. (You will
not be the first person to make this mistake.)


It seemed quickly much easier to sign in to Google. Goodbye.


You are very welcome, of course, to choose to use any alternative
software you wish. Yes, really. But if speed means to you avoiding
learning about the tool and about your own mistakes, you will find
the same problems in the future. Google's offering will behave in a
very similar way; if it didn't, users would be complaining! In
particular, if you enter your data there *in exactly the same way*
(do not confuse typing with pasting, for example), you will see the
same results there. Why not - instead of complaining that OpenOffice
doesn't work - ask about your problem on the mailing list and learn
the solution?


I have little patience when companies make simple tasks complicated.


Again, this makes no sense:
o You cannot say that you have "little patience" with something after
claiming to have used it for years!
o Surely you know enough about OpenOffice to appreciate that it is
created by a cooperative venture, not a "company"?
o Like most things, when you understand it, you will find the way
spreadsheets work a convenience, not a complication.

OK: now to your problem. If you have managed to enter values as text
instead of as numbers, you will not expect to be able to calculate
with them. But there are easy solutions. You may need to set the
format of cells before you enter data (though you probably don't, in
fact). If you have entered values inappropriately, there are easy
ways to correct your mistake. You can find these in the help text, in
the documentation available from the web site (you have read this,
haven't you?), through a web search, or by asking on this mailing list.

It always amuses me when people making such claims choose to
advertise them to hundreds, perhaps a thousand or two, of fellow
users around the world, most of whom will understand the software
well enough not to find the same problems. Why not describe your
problem instead and obtain help?

I trust this helps.

Brian Barker - privately

Re: Google Apps

[Winter]

I had just opened the Sheet. There was no formatting. I understand the 
distinction in how to see if it is text. It did not appear to be text. I 
copied the values per the instructions from a forum using the Value 
command  from the cells into the adjacent column and still it did not 
recognize the numbers as text. I was programming in HEX modularly when 
you were in Kindergarten. I have an IQ over 160. I do not need your 
condescension in remarking that perhaps I need something simple. Your 
job as tech support is to consider the input from your customers not to 
take amateurish cheap shots. You have a problem with your product. 
Perhaps if you would listen to your customers instead of taking juvenile 
asinine responses.



On 2/15/2018 6:38 AM, Winter wrote:
I had just opened the Sheet. There was no formatting. I understand the 
distinction in how to see if it is text. It did not appear to be text. 
I copied the values from the cells into the adjacent column and still 
it did not recognize the numbers as text. I was programming in HEX 
modularly when you were in Kindergarten. I have an IQ over 160. I do 
not need your condescension in remarking that perhaps I need something 
simple. Your job as tech support is to consider the input from your 
customers not to take amateurish cheap shots. You have a problem with 
your product. Perhaps if you would listen to your customers instead of 
taking juvenile asinine responses. 



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Re: Google Apps

[Martin Groenescheij]

This mailing list is to get help from users like you and me.
As you're not subscribed to this mailing list and haven't asked for help


On 15/02/18 8:31 AM, Winter wrote:
This is why after years I have now stopped using Open Office and 
switched to Google Apps. I am a programmer.


I expect from programmers that they know the difference between 
importing Numbers and Text.


I quickly dump software that does not comply to User Ergonomics. It 
should be simple and intuitive. Especially the simplest task.


Then Google Apps. is the tool for you, please come back when you need to 
do more complex tasks.


All I wanted was to set up a budget like I have many time in Open 
Office but the Sum command now does not sum. Why? I read online 
suggestions which mentioned it could have something to do with the 
value being treated as Text with no explanation to convert them to 
numerical values.


If you have Cells formatted as Text it will store imported values as 
text, at the top you can see a ` in front of the number when stored as text.
Changing the Cell format to numeric doesn't help.  You can use a formula 
like =VALUE(A1:A25) in a empty column and Paste Special the result

back into Column A with only the numeric option ticked.

It seemed quickly much easier to sign in to Google. Goodbye. I have 
little patience when companies make simple tasks complicated.



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To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org





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Re: Google Apps

[Howard Blum]

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!

On Feb 14, 2018 1:39 PM, "Winter"  wrote:

This is why after years I have now stopped using Open Office and switched
to Google Apps. I am a programmer. I quickly dump software that does not
comply to User Ergonomics. It should be simple and intuitive. Especially
the simplest task. All I wanted was to set up a budget like I have many
time in Open Office but the Sum command now does not sum. Why? I read
online suggestions which mentioned it could have something to do with the
value being treated as Text with no explanation to convert them to
numerical values. It seemed quickly much easier to sign in to Google.
Goodbye. I have little patience when companies make simple tasks
complicated.


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