[VIHUELA] Re: Unisons in Italy was Re: Guitar stringing was Re: Bartolotti Videos performed by Lex Eisenhardt
Dear group members, You are all correct with your observations about Pisador and the fourth course: it is the only specific reference to tuning both strings of the course to the same pitch. By the same token, the only reference to the tuning of both strings of one course is the reference to Fuenllana tuning the strings a third apart. I haven't got Bill Hearn's article in front of me, but I think we need to consider as much what isn't said by the authors. Milan, for example, always refers to each course in the singular as a cuerda. He is clearly telling us that he regarded as the sound of each course to be one sound. I don't think he is telling us that we should have our vihuelas strung with single-string courses, but if he used octaves instead of unisons, then their role was certainly to enhance the qualities of the fundamental, and not to make it sound like an octave. So if you want to use octaves on your vihuelas, and want your instrument to sound in a way that Luis Milan might have approved of, I would recommend you try to match the strings so that the octave is imperceptible. It is also narrow to draw conclusions about instrumental practice on the basis of the local standards of string making. We actually know very little about string making in Spain. I have read some documents from the 14th century that ally string makers with tanners, but other references to string making as a homespun cottage industry in the 16th century: one violero in Valladolid had strings made for him by a married couple in Burgos. But I have also found documents in Spain showing that they imported vihuela strings from Italy, France and the Low Countries. From this I can only conclude that there was sufficient interest in Spain in getting good strings for Spanish players and makers to go to great lengths to identify good strings abroad and organise their importation. Not too different to today, really. John On 9 Sep 2010, at 04:39 , Monica Hall wrote: I seem never to have replied to this. There does seem to be some evidence for unison stringing on the 4th courses of the vihuela in Pisador and Bermudo but that's all. In an paper in Estudios sobre la vihuela Mimmo Peruffo made an interesting point - that it is unlikely that the Spanish had discovered a way of making good gut bass strings which was unknown elsewhere in Europe. This would be as if they were driving round in motor cars whilst everyone else was in horse drawn carriages. I suppose it is possible that the Spanish were prepared to put up with the poor sound of low gut basses. But surely octave doubling was acceptable in the 16th and 17th century. Regards Monica - Original Message - From: Martin Shepherd [1]mar...@luteshop.co.uk To: Vihuelalist [2]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 2:53 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Unisons in Italy was Re: Guitar stringing was Re: Bartolotti Videos performed by Lex Eisenhardt Thanks, Monica. So as far as the vihuela is concerned, we have evidence for a unison 4th course but no evidence at all about the 5th and 6th courses? The surviving music for vihuela dates from a time when the lute was commonly strung in octaves on courses 4-6, and from a string technology point of view there is therefore every reason to suppose that octaves were required. It seems to me that modern wound strings have made it too easy for us to assume that unisons were the norm for the vihuela. As I said, the presence of octaves on the lute seems to have been no barrier for those addicted to polyphonic intabulations, so the idea that the vihuela repertoire is dominated by such pieces is no argument in favour of unisons either. Best wishes, Martin Monica Hall wrote: The original article arguing for octave stringing was by Bill Hearn in LSA Quarterly, Aug. 1994. There was some correspondence between him and Donald Gill in LSA Quarterly Feb 1995, and May 1996. The other piece of evidence for unison stringing is from Bermudo who mentions that the 4-course guitar has octaves stringing in the 4th course like the vihuela de Flandres and by inference, he suggests that the vihuela did not. Monica - Original Message - From: Martin Shepherd [3]mar...@luteshop.co.uk To: Lute List [4]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu; Vihuelalist [5]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 7:37 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Unisons in Italy was Re: Guitar stringing was Re: Bartolotti Videos performed by Lex Eisenhardt The main piece of evidence for unison stringing on the lute in late 16th century Italy is the statement (where? can anyone help? I think it's an English source) that Fabrizio Dentice introduced
[VIHUELA] Vihuela Society Encounter
To all of you who are interested in the vihuela and early guitars, and who might happen to be in Spain or close by, the annual Encuentro of the Sociedad de la Vihuela is being held in Sigüenza (Guadalajara) from 9-12 October. Hopkinson Smith's concert will be one of the main features, along with many other concerts, round table debates on current issues related to the vihuela and kindred instruments, and one session to music for tecla, harpa y vihuela as part of the commemoration of the 500 years since the birth of Antonio de Cabezón. Details are on the web at: http://www.sociedaddelavihuela.com/en/ One of the other interesting reasons to make it worth coming to Sigüenza is to visit the Centro de la Vihuela y la Guitarra that has been established by José Luis Romanillos. Romanillos has been interested in early guitars and vihuelas since at least the time that he made copies of instruments for that monumental series of TV programs that Julian Bream made in his heyday. Many of you will probably have seen Romanillos' outstanding books on Torres, and his more recent Dictionary in which he makes some very provocative arguments about the development of the vihuela and the guitar. From his viewpoint as a maker, he argues very convincingly that the term vihuela should be applied to Spanish instruments until the introduction of single stringing c.1800. The Centre that he has established will be a museum that holds his own collection of instruments, and it also includes the workshop of legendary 20th-century guitar maker Santos Hernández. The centre doesn't have a web page yet, but for those who can read Spanish, there are some newspaper articles such as the following where there is more information available. http://www.lacronica.net/articulo.asp?idarticulo=33946 John To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Sociedad de la vihuela webstore
Dear list members, At the risk of being a bit commercial, I would like to let you know that the Sociedad de la Vihuela in Spain has finally got its on-line store functioning. We are really pleased with the way it looks and works, and it is now easy for English speakers to negotiate, whether to pay membership subscriptions or to buy journals and books. The journal Hispanica Lyra has good music supplements and high quality photo lift-outs of newly discovered iconographical images. The books include a really stunning full-colour facsimile of Milan's El Maestro that is really worth having. And the software used for the shop is quite fun too. You can even drag and drop your purchases into your shopping basket. To celebrate, there are 20% discounts on the book publications during July and August. Even at 70, the Milan facsimile is a real bargain. Now you can get it for 55 (or 44 if you are a member)! I'm surprised that it isn't more in the vicinity of $200. The link is: [1]http://www.sociedaddelavihuela.com/store Please forgive the mercantile nature of this message, but I have been helping the Sociedad de la Vihuela get this project off the ground. If the Spanish society can do as well for itself internationally as the LSA or The Lute Society, then it has a good chance of achieving the same kind of longevity, and we will all be richer for it. Good wishes, John -- References 1. http://www.sociedaddelavihuela.com/store To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: lyrics to Guardama las Vacas and Conde Claros
8. [10]http://es.wikisource.org/wiki/Romance_del_conde_Claros_de_Montalv%C 3%A1n 9. [11]file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/michael.f...@notesinc.com 10. [12]file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 11. [13]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 12. [14]file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/davidvanooi...@gmail.com 13. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 14. [16]file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/davidvanooi...@gmail.com ___ Professor John Griffiths FAHA Early Music Studio, School of Music, The University of Melbourne 3010, Victoria, Australia tel +61 3 8344 8810 mob +61 421 644 911 [17]jag...@unimelb.edu.au [18]www.vihuelagriffiths.com ___ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e-mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e-mail. -- References 1. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ 2. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ 3. file://localhost/localhost/net/people/lute-arc/davidvanooi...@gmail.com 4. file://localhost/localhost/net/people/lute-arc/michael.f...@notesinc.com 5. file://localhost/localhost/net/people/lute-arc/michael.f...@notesinc.com 6. file://localhost/localhost/net/people/lute-arc/l...@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. file://localhost/localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 8. file://localhost/localhost/net/people/lute-arc/michael.f...@notesinc.com 9. file://localhost/localhost/net/people/lute-arc/michael.f...@notesinc.com 10. http://es.wikisource.org/wiki/Romance_del_conde_Claros_de_Montalv%C3%A1n 11. file://localhost/localhost/net/people/lute-arc/michael.f...@notesinc.com 12. file://localhost/localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 13. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 14. file://localhost/localhost/net/people/lute-arc/davidvanooi...@gmail.com 15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 16. file://localhost/localhost/net/people/lute-arc/davidvanooi...@gmail.com 17. mailto:jag...@unimelb.edu.au 18. http://www.vihuelagriffiths.com/
[VIHUELA] Re: quatro differencias sobre la pavana por grados
Dear Ed, the only recording I know is the one by Juan Carlos Rivera on the recording with his group Armonioso Concerto dedicated to Valderrabano on Harmonia Mundi Iberica 987509. For details see: [1]http://www.juancarlosrivera.com/espanol/frame.html If you need a copy of the track, let me know privately. Regards, John On 28/02/2010, at 14:22, Edward Martin wrote: Dear ones, Does anyone on the list know of any recordings of this piece by Valderrabano? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, ed Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [2...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 [3]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html ___ Professor John Griffiths FAHA Early Music Studio, School of Music, The University of Melbourne 3010, Victoria, Australia tel +61 3 8344 8810 mob +61 421 644 911 [4]jag...@unimelb.edu.au [5]www.vihuelagriffiths.com ___ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e-mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e-mail. -- References 1. http://www.juancarlosrivera.com/espanol/frame.html 2. mailto:e...@gamutstrings.com 3. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871ref=name 4. mailto:jag...@unimelb.edu.au 5. http://www.vihuelagriffiths.com/
[VIHUELA] Thanks
Thanks for the positive feedback I received from a good number of you. Regards, John ___ John Griffiths FAHA Professor of Music General Editor LYREBIRD PRESS [1]www.lyrebirdpress.com Director EARLY MUSIC STUDIO [2]www.music.unimelb.edu.au/research/EMS/index.html School of Music The University of Melbourne 3010 Victoria Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 [3]jag...@unimelb.edu.au [4]www.vihuelagriffiths.com ___ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e-mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e-mail. -- References 1. http://www.lyrebirdpress.com/ 2. http://www.music.unimelb.edu.au/research/EMS/index.html 3. mailto:jag...@unimelb.edu.au 4. http://www.vihuelagriffiths.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] New Year gift
Dear list members, For those of you who are interested in the vihuela, I have just published a new bilingual internet version of my 2003 book Tañer vihuela según Juan Bermudo. It is a method of learning to play the vihuela based on the pedagogical principles elaborated by Bermudo in his 1555 Declaración de instrumentos musicales. You can find it at: http://www.vihuelagriffiths.com/JohnGriffiths/Vihuela_playing.html It comprises a selection of twenty pieces following the order suggested by Bermudo. For each piece, I have included the original tablature, plus analytical transcriptions for instruments in G (lutes and vihuelas) and for instruments in E (especially for modern guitarists). The material can be used for individual study or for group learning. All the music, tablature and transcriptions, is in downloadable pdf format. I hope you will find it useful. Good wishes, John Griffiths To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Valderrabano sonetos
Hi Rob: some of these sonetos are actually fantasias by Francesco da Milano! John On 24/05/2009, at 5:17, Stuart Walsh wrote: Rob MacKillop wrote: I've uploaded four of Valderrabano's 'primero grado' sonetos: [1][1]http://www.vihuela.eu/study.htm really excellent fantasias and nowhere near as difficult as those by Fuenllana, Narvaez, Mudarra, etc. Rob -- I've been trying to play them on a lute. Trickier than they look, I think. Stuart References 1. [2]http://www.vihuela.eu/study.htm To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [4]www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.37/2130 - Release Date: 05/23/09 07:00:00 ___ Professor John Griffiths School of Music The University of Melbourne 3010 Victoria Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 [5]jag...@unimelb.edu.au ___ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e-mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e-mail. -- References 1. http://www.vihuela.eu/study.htm 2. http://www.vihuela.eu/study.htm 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. http://www.avg.com/ 5. mailto:jag...@unimelb.edu.au
[VIHUELA] Re: [VIHUELA] [VIHUELA] vihuela de péndola
___ Professor John Griffiths School of Music The University of Melbourne 3010 Victoria Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 [25]jag...@unimelb.edu.au ___ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e-mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e-mail. -- References 1. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 2. mailto:nels...@ecu.edu 3. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:nels...@ecu.edu 5. mailto:luteplay...@googlemail.com 6. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. mailto:luteplay...@googlemail.com 8. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 10. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/luteplay...@googlemail.com 11. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 13. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 14. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu 15. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 16. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu 17. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/luteplay...@googlemail.com 18. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 19. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/luteplay...@googlemail.com 20. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 21. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 22. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/luteplay...@googlemail.com 23. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 24. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 25. mailto:jag...@unimelb.edu.au
[VIHUELA] Re: Francesco and the viola da mano
Hi Rob and others I would make a few corrections and caveats to your account. Firstly, there is no proof that the vihuela de mano was created in Valencia. This myth results from Woodfield's book which makes two fundamental errors: 1) it only considers iconographical evidence and 2) it only considered iconography that was reproduced in books that he could get access to in Britain. Of the 15th century vihuelas in my database 4 are found in Andaluc=EDa, 3 in Aragon, 1 in Baleares, 5 in Castilla La Mancha, 15 in Castilla y Leon, 17 in Catalonia, 4 in Extremadura, 2 in Galicia, 12 in Madrid, 2 in Navarre, 14 in Valencia, and 5 in Zaragoza. A much broader spread indeed! I don't think your argument about the shape of the ribs holds water either. There are all kinds found in Spain, Naples and the rest of Italy. The Raimondi drawing is Italian, after all. The role of the Borgias is important (Luis Milan, incidentally, was related to Rodrigo Borgia) and if you check out the boundaries of the Papal Territories at the time you can see how this helped the spread of Spanish instruments up the Italian coast to the Veneto, etc. And when it comes to Isabella d'Este you shouldn't forget that Rodrigo Borgia's daughter, Lucrezia, was her sister-in-law. As for Francesco's Neapolitan Lutebook, it is quite possible that his student Pierino Fiorentino might have had some role in respect of the supervising the Neapolitan printing. But we don't know who put it into Neapolitan tablature. On the other hand, there's a good case that Francesco and Narvaez met in Rome in 1536, and taught each other some tricks. But there is no evidence that I know to confirm Francesco playing viola. The viola da mano appears to have maintained its popularity in Naples until late into the 16th century, but there is no evidence of Dentice playing the viola, and all the references to Giulio Severino attest to the lute, including, I believe, Pacheco's reference to him as playing a vihuela de ocho ordenes, in all likelihood a lute. Ceretto, however, refers to him as Giiulio Severino della viola. More information is to be had in Dinko Fabris' article La musica en Napoles en tiempos de Felipe II in Griffiths and Suarez- Pajares, Pol=EDticas y practicas musicales en el mundo de Felipe II (Madrid: ICCMU, 2004) and Fabris and Griffiths, Neapolitan Lute Music Madison: A-R Editions, 2004. Just a few bits and pieces. Regards, John On 04/06/2008, at 18:38, Rob MacKillop wrote: Allow me to simplify things, at least for my own benefit, and forgive me if I over simplify. I'm just thinking out loud... The vihuela de mano was created in Valencia and found its way to Naples where it became popular, more popular than the lute. Some Italian makers started making their own version which they called the viola da mano. Eventually there emerged two apparently distinct types, Spanish and Italian. The Italian version seems to have kept the classic viol shape with deep indents on the sides, while the Spanish version smoothed out the sides, as with the Raimondi drawing, or the figure of eight, almost classical guitar shape of Milan's book. Both types were used in Italy, either imported or copied, and the Spanish types were referred to as Spanish lutes or lyras. Isabella d'Este asks for a Spanish type, and, importantly, insists on it being made from ebony. Although there seems to have been a distinction in the physical aspects of the Italian and Spanish viola/vihuela, the repertoire could be played on either instrument. The Borgias, being originally Spanish, were important in spreading the popularity of the vihuela/viola to Rome and the northern states. Francesco, therefore, did not need to live in the South to come across the viola. His 1536 book mentions the viola before the lute: *Intavolatura de Viola o vero Lauto*. It was printed in Naples where the viola was most popular. This raises the possibility that Francesco did NOT play the viola, but its name was given chief prominence in order to boost sales in its area of publication...? However, it is certainly possible that he DID play the viola alongside the lute early in his career, but dropped the viola when it declined in popularity in favour of the lute. Two Neapolitan viola da mano players, Dentice and Severino, were active in both Italy and Spain, and their works could be added to the canon of vihuela literature. OK? Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Professor John Griffiths Faculty of Music =95 The University of Melbourne 3010 =95 Victoria =95 Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 =95 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 =95 [EMAIL PROTECTED
[VIHUELA] Novelties
Just for everyone's information, there will be a whole day dedicated to the vihuela at the Utrecht Early Music Festival on 31 August this year. Five concerts and three lectures. Performances by Jose Miguel Moreno, Hopkinson Smith, Juan Carlos Rivera, Alfred Fernandez, and Xavier D=EDaz. Lectures by Gerardo Arriaga, Sebastian Nu=F1ez and myself. Details at www.oudemuziek.nl I don't know if any of you have seen yet the new facsimile of Milan's El Maestro published by the Sociedad de Vihuela in Spain. It is the best facsimile of lute /vihuela music I have ever seen. All in full colour on paper that resembles the original. Reproduces all the stains and wear marks. 55 Euros for members; 70 euros for everyone else. This is really worth having. The print run is quite small, so don't miss oout if you are interested. Go to http://www.sociedaddelavihuela.com/publicaciones.htm and then click on the thumbnail image of the cover. Good wishes, John ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Professor John Griffiths Faculty of Music =95 The University of Melbourne 3010 =95 Victoria =95 Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 =95 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 =95 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e- mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e- mail. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Saldivar Codex 4 - transcription?
I think you're right Monica, just the facsimile was published by Lorimer. It's Craig Russell who did the 2 vol. set: Here are the relevant details from OMI Facsimiles -- http://www.omifacsimiles.com/cats/lute.html [Codice Sald=EDvar, no.4] Sald=EDvar Codex No.4. Santiago de Murcia Manuscript of Baroque Guitar Music (c.1732) found and Acquired in September 1943 in Leon, Guanajuato, Mexico by the Mexican Musicologist Dr. Gabriel Sald=EDvar y Silva (1909-1980). Volume I: The Manuscript, Complete Facsimile Edition with Preface and Commentary. By Michael Lorimer. Santa Barbara, Cal, 1987. 4o, xxii, 95, vi pp. Line-cut, produced 2 originals per page. Wrappers. $40 [item no.7475] [Codice Sald=EDvar, no.4] Santiago de Murcia's Codice Sald=EDvar No.4. A Treasury of Secular Guitar Music from Baroque Mexico. Edited by Craig H. Russell. Volume 1: Commentary; Volume 2: Facsimile and Transcription. Champaign, 1995. 15 x 23 cm, 2 vols, xviii, 296; xx, 298 pp. Halftone, in reduced format, of one of the few extant instrumental sources from New Spain containing a large anthology for the five-course baroque guitar. Together with transcription and critical commentary. Cloth. $85 [item no.4796] JG On 08/05/2008, at 22:01, Monica Hall wrote: Just realized something - is there a second volume by Lorimer? I only have the first one. MOnica - Original Message - From: John Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 7:56 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Saldivar Codex 4 - transcription? Hi Rob and everyone, Hope I got it right this time. I know two editions. The first by Craig Russell you can get easily through Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Santiago-Murcias-Codice-Saldivar-transcription/dp/0252020928 The other is: Santiago de Murcia, Sald=EDvar Codex No 4: Santiago de Murcia manuscript of baroque guitar music (c. 1732). 2 vols. Santa Barbara: Michael Lorimer, 1987. Greetings, John On 08/05/2008, at 16:36, Rob MacKillop wrote: Is there a transcription of Murcia's Mexican manuscript? Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Professor John Griffiths Faculty of Music =95 The University of Melbourne 3010 =95 Victoria =95 Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 =95 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 =95 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e- mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e- mail. -- ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Professor John Griffiths Faculty of Music =95 The University of Melbourne 3010 =95 Victoria =95 Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 =95 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 =95 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e- mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e- mail. --
[VIHUELA] Re: machete
Hi Bruno, Rob et al. The Drumond de Vasconcelos volume is fully bilingual (just like Bruno!) in Portuguese and English John On 09/05/2008, at 3:26, Bruno Correia wrote: Hi Rob, I speak Portuguese, if you need help... 2008/5/8 Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED]: John Griffiths sent this email, but it it only appears to have come to me. Since he says 'et al', I'm sure he won't mind me sending it to the list. Dear Rob et al, You need to consult Manuel Morais on the machete. He was trying to organise a Machete conference in the Azores this year following his publication of a wonderful anthology of 19th-century Machete music that he found in Funchal. Candido Drumond de Vasconcelos, Colec=E7=E3o de Pe=E7as para Machete -- Collection of Pieces for Machete (1846). Estudio e revis=E3o Manuel Morais. Colec=E7=E3o Pensar o Som. Lisbon: Caleidoscopio, 2003. Also see, Manuel's recent article Achegas para a Historia da Musica na Madeira (c.1584-c.1897): Os instrumentos populares de corda dedilhada na Madeira. A Madeira e a Musica (c. 1508-c. 1974): Estudos. Funchal, Madeira, 2008. Good wishes, John Thanks John. Wish I could speak Portuguese! The machete is a whole new instrument for me. Never gave it much thought before. I hope someone records the manuscript pieces. Any descritions of the music? Folk style? Posh minuets? Arrangement of the Hammerclavier Sonata??? Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Professor John Griffiths Faculty of Music =95 The University of Melbourne 3010 =95 Victoria =95 Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 =95 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 =95 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e- mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e- mail. --
[VIHUELA] Re: Cifras recording
It's excellent. I have listened to it a few times. I find the balance between the two instruments less than ideal, and the arranging that the performers have done is quite tasteful compared to some of the blond-fairytale recordings of Spanish guitar music of recent years. I'm writing a formal review of it at the moment. Of course, the best thing is that it brings to life this newly-found music in a vivid and convincing way. Regards, John On 19/03/2008, at 2:47, Mjos Larson wrote: I see that the recording by Eduardo Figueroa and Oscar Ohlsen of music from Santiago de Murcia's 1722 Cifras Selectas de Guitarra is now available. http://eduardo.liuto.com/cds.php?lang=2 Has anyone on the list heard it yet? -- Rocky -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html ~ LYREBIRD PRESS www.lyrebirdpress.com NEW WEBSITE ~ Professor John Griffiths Faculty of Music =95 The University of Melbourne 3010 =95 Victoria =95 Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 =95 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 =95 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e- mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e- mail. --
[VIHUELA] Re: Guardame Las Vacas - lyrics
Dear Rob, the text is as follows: Guardame las vacas / Carillo, y besarte he; / mas besame tu a m=ED, / que yo te las guardare. Regards, John ~ Professor John Griffiths Faculty of Music =95 The University of Melbourne 3010 =95 Victoria =95 Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 =95 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 =95 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Rob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sat 12-Jan-08 03:08 To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] Guardame Las Vacas - lyrics I'm looking for the lyrics to Guardame las vacas. Can anyone help? Rob MacKillop www.rmguitar.info -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[VIHUELA] Re: dedillo
My two-penneth worth is that we have two main ways of learning about dedillo from contemporary practice. One is from the variety of techniques used in vihuela/guitarra-derivatives in Latin America, such as the charango and various others. The second is the Portuguese guitar that has continued to use dedillo technique in a manner that I suspect is not far removed from the way that sixteenth-century vihuelists used it. John On 31/10/2007, at 10:23, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: At 07:00 PM 10/30/2007, Stuart Walsh wrote: Is the vihuela the only instrument that uses this technique? I don't think there is anything like it in 4 or 5 course guitar, or any kind of lute, technique. There couldn't be anything in the construction of the instrument that makes this a more likely possibility, could there? And hats off to Ralph Maier for actually mastering it. Speaking only as an amateur: the whole business is trying to get the flesh of the fingers to sound the strings. But the downward stroke of dedillo seems like a crude bash with the nails. How do you square the considered upward pluck of the fingers with - what could easily be- a rather percussive chunk downwards with the thumb? Dedillo as tremolo is pretty common to modern classical guitar and perhaps even more common to flamenco (and, as Bill has offered, to chordal charango technique). I'm not certain how to interpret your latter paragraph, Stuart. The potential imbalance in tone is between the typical full-voiced upstroke of nail/flesh against the thinner-voiced downstroke of the same finger, back of nail only. To quote the fine detail of Ralph's article: [W]hen commencing a section of passage-work where dedillo has been indicated in the tablature, or where the passage seems well-suited to this type of articulation, the vihuelist begins with an upward stroke on the accented beat with the fleshy side of the index finger. During the subsequent release of the finger to its original starting point (in other words, the downstroke), the vihuelist articulates the string again, now with nail side of the finger. I don't necessarily think it needs to balance. I think the strong- weak pulse is a feature of dedillo to be exploited. Eugene -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html ~ Professor John Griffiths Faculty of Music =95 The University of Melbourne 3010 =95 Victoria =95 Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 =95 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 =95 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e- mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e- mail. --
[VIHUELA] Spinacino 1507-2007
A two-day conference celebrating the 500th anniversary of the first printed lute tablature. 30 November-1 December, Tours This conference will also mark the reactivation of the Corpus des Luthistes series, and the launch of its new website featuring a full colour facsimile of the Spinacino lutebook, by courtesy of the Jagellionian University in Cracow. A poster is available at: http://193.52.215.193/Epitome/ Spinacino.pdf.zip Centre d'Etudes Superieures de la Renaissance Projet Corpus des luthistes Dirige par Dinko Fabris, John Griffiths Philippe Vendrix Colloque international (Vendredi 30 novembre 2007 - Samedi 1er decembre 2007) Spinacino : 1507-2007 Vendredi 30 novembre 14h : Philippe Vendrix (CESR) Accueil des participants 14h30: Stanley Boorman (New York University) Why Spinacino? 15h15 : Philippe Canguilhem (Universite de Toulouse) Les premi=E8res tablatures et l'art de la memoire 16h30 : John Griffiths (Melbourne University) Predictability and irrationality in the music of Spinacino 17h15 : Victor Coelho (Boston University) Historiography and chronology in Spinacino Samedi 1er decembre 9h30 : Sabine Meine (Institut historique allemand de Rome) Les frottole de Spinacino 10h15 : Tim Crawford (University of London) Dance music for the lute 11h30 : Gianluigi Bello A close reading and new meaning of Spinacino vocal models 14h30 : Vladimir Ivanoff Spinacino's lute duos as sources for previous performance practice in lute duos 15h15 : Keith Polk Solo lutenists, lute duo- Foreign and domestic in Italy, c.1500 16h30 : Camilla Cavicchi (CESR) Luths et luthistes =E0 Ferrare 17h15 : Dinko Fabris (Universit=E0 de Basilicat=E0) Les tablatures italiennes de luth: etat des connaissances et prospectives pour le Corpus des Luthistes Pour toute information complementaire : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lieu du colloque : CESR, 8 rue Rapin =E0 Tours http://193.52.215.193/cesr/plancesr.asp ~ Professor John Griffiths Faculty of Music =95 The University of Melbourne 3010 =95 Victoria =95 Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 =95 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 =95 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e- mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e- mail. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: cedric
Ah! Bill In good humour and without any intended malice, it could be said that you just don't get it, do you?. For many, history is about: deification, sanctification... immortalisation. If you transform the past's mundane into something precious, or if you trivialise today something that was not trivial in once-upon-a-time land, how can you possibly take it to the pub? How do you use Ruby Tuesday to venerate the spirit of ancestral voices? Where is the match between the fragility of our gorgeous instruments and the robust power of contemporary musical expression? How do the acoustics of contemporary buildings enhance the voice of early instruments? Conundrums like these could keep pouring out. Naturally, you are driving at a point that concerns us all to some extent. It's the question of our own social relevance as musicians. You seem to cajole us for being renaissance-baroque fetishists inhabiting a world of secluded unreality. Well, for myself, I've worked it out, and it works just fine: when I play today's music, I prefer to use an instrument that speaks today's language; when I play music of a distant past, I choose to do it on instruments that speaks yesterday's languages. For me, this gives more poignancy to my utterance, and more finesse to the articulation of subtle musical thoughts that drive into the very pithy centre of human existence. I hope this eases your anxiety And for what it's worth, I do like your songs Good wishes, JG And some of our companions on this list prefer to On 22/06/2007, at 7:57, bill kilpatrick wrote: i know you'll say it's none of my business - and quite right too - but i can't help feeling just that little bit anxious for the welfare of your poor little, etiolated vihuelas and baroque guitars and their future development as well rounded chordaphones in an ever diversifying contemporary music scene. i mean ... it's a wuff' life. instead of being zipped-up in the cheap n' cheerful confines of a chinese-made, nylon gig bag and whisked round - simply as one of the gang - to a wide variety of light-hearted venues ... road houses; smoke-filled taverns; rowdy bar-b-ques; raucous clam bakes; hale n' hearty sing-a-longs, etc., etc. (as their progenitors were, lo' those many, many years ago) ... cedric - as i learn lord fauntleroy's american christian name to have been - is usually cosseted in a purpose built case, costing many hundreds of dollars and carried forth to an oak-paneled, university chamber, of an evening, to perform before a select circle of stern-faced HIP-ese. .. pop open a brew! ... show him how to walk the dog! to this end, i've been thinking of a suitable composition for the boy, to increase the chances of his being accepted by all the other cheeky little chappies on the block ... how about goodbye ruby tuesday by the railing staines? .. a little bossa nova might not be a'miss, either. dreadfully concerned - bill http://earlymusiccharango.blogspot.com/ ___ New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html ~ Professor John Griffiths Faculty of Music =95 The University of Melbourne 3010 =95 Victoria =95 Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 =95 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 =95 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e- mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e- mail. --
[VIHUELA] Re: vihuela's black swan
Dear Arto, the evidence would seem to suggest that there were vihuelas in 16th- century Spain. In very rough terms, the evidence is approximately: - some 70 inventory descriptions - over 60 iconographic representations from the 16th century of flat- backed plucked vihuelas - more than 150 known 16th-century players of the vihuela - over 100 known makers producing instruments in the 16th-century The inventory descriptions and iconography is quite compelling evidence. The players and makers is less unequivocal: at least some of the people called violeros and vihuelistas could have been building and playing other instruments than flat-backed vihuelas. John On 20/06/2007, at 6:54, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't really see any black swan issues here. An instrument is what its contemporary builders and players named it. I don't see nearly as much value in categorizing instrument types into biological-like families as some. Of course, all these things are related and borrow inspiration from one another through time, but inspiration is nothing at all like genetic inheritance or evolution in its mechanisms. And were there actually any vihuelas in the 16th century Spain? As far as I remember the whole idea of those flat back lutes there has been argued being just pure speculaition.. Practically there are no instruments surviving. If it really was a common instrument, there should be at least some tens of them in the museums? And are there any last will and testaments cataloquing vihuelas? As far as I know, there aren't... So what could that instrument be, for which perhaps 7 to 8 (only so few!) variable high standard books were printed in the 16th century Spain? Perhaps it was charango ;-) Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html ~ Professor John Griffiths Faculty of Music =95 The University of Melbourne 3010 =95 Victoria =95 Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 =95 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 =95 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e- mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e- mail. --
[VIHUELA] Re: Cantiones Ruthenicae
Thanks very much for this. I am fascinated to know the provenance of the MS sources for all these pieces. Can you tell us where they are kept? JG On 26/05/2007, at 22:22, Roman Turovsky wrote: Dear friends, I would like to announce the completion of the http://www.polyhymnion.org/torban/ruthenicae.html project, which is now open to your perusal and delectation. Special thanks go to Mathias R=C3=B6sel who heroically tested all the music for interest and playability. RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html ~ Professor John Griffiths Faculty of Music =95 The University of Melbourne 3010 =95 Victoria =95 Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 =95 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 =95 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e- mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e- mail. --
[VIHUELA] Re: Santiago de Murcia
Monica, as far as I know, Alejandro has been trying to get as much mileage as possible out of this. He has played his cards very close to his chest upun til now. My colleague in Chile, Oscar Ohlsen, was involved in the public presentation of the MS in Chile, but I have not pressed Oscar any further. I was very interested in offering him publication opportunities and went as far as setting up a meeting with him the last time I was in Chile (end of 2005), but he didn't show up for the appointment. The Early Music article will be the important step in the process. Regards, John On 24/05/2007, at 16:12, Monica Hall wrote: That must have been the Saldivar Codex. I don't think that the Chile Ms. has been made available generally yet. Does anyone know if it is possible to get a copy of it? Antonio did send me a copy of an article about it and I have the various newspaper reports. I am interested to know whether the movements which form suites which hadn't been identified are by Corbetta as Passacalles y obras includes music by him which isn't in any of his printed books. Monica - Original Message - From: Fossum, Arthur [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 2:52 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Santiago de Murcia From Thomas Schall's post to the lute list: The first of them was by Gabriel Schabor on baroque guitar playing music mainly from Santiago de Murcia. Gabriel played with great technical perfection und incorporating nice effects mainly from a mexican source found in a second hand bookstore. I just was not sure if this concert was from the Codex or the new Manuscript - Did not mention Chile or New -Arthur -Original Message- From: John Griffiths [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 9:18 AM To: Fossum, Arthur Cc: Vihuelalist Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Santiago de Murcia The one in Chile was BOUGHT by a the Universidad Catolica, it wasn't found there. I haven't read the article, but I have talked to my friends in Chile and the articles in the Chilean press. In El Mercurio on 18 Sept 2006, Alejandro Vega claims to have found it in Chile. John On 23/05/2007, at 22:09, Fossum, Arthur wrote: Mexican source found in used book store? Isn't that the Codex Salvidar no 4 ? Not the new one found in a University in Chile? -Arthur Fossum -Original Message- From: Monica Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 7:24 AM To: Arthur Ness Cc: Vihuelalist Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Santiago de Murcia Yes please! Monica - Original Message - From: Arthur Ness [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Monica Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 11:13 AM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Santiago de Murcia Found in a used book store? Someone on the Lute List (Thomas Schall) reported a performance from such a book at the recent lute festival in Kassel. If I didn't erase it, I'll send ithe report. It names names.g Arthur. - Original Message - From: Monica Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 11:20 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Santiago de Murcia The latest issue of Early Music (May 2007) includes the article about the newly discovered Ms. of Santiago de Murcia although I haven't seen it yet. Monica -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html ~ Professor John Griffiths Faculty of Music =95 The University of Melbourne 3010 =95 Victoria =95 Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 =95 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 =95 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e- mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e- mail. -- ~ Professor John Griffiths Faculty of Music =95 The University of Melbourne 3010 =95 Victoria =95 Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 =95 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 =95 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects
[VIHUELA] Re: Santiago de Murcia
The one in Chile was BOUGHT by a the Universidad Catolica, it wasn't found there. I haven't read the article, but I have talked to my friends in Chile and the articles in the Chilean press. In El Mercurio on 18 Sept 2006, Alejandro Vega claims to have found it in Chile. John On 23/05/2007, at 22:09, Fossum, Arthur wrote: Mexican source found in used book store? Isn't that the Codex Salvidar no 4 ? Not the new one found in a University in Chile? -Arthur Fossum -Original Message- From: Monica Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 7:24 AM To: Arthur Ness Cc: Vihuelalist Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Santiago de Murcia Yes please! Monica - Original Message - From: Arthur Ness [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Monica Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 11:13 AM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Santiago de Murcia Found in a used book store? Someone on the Lute List (Thomas Schall) reported a performance from such a book at the recent lute festival in Kassel. If I didn't erase it, I'll send ithe report. It names names.g Arthur. - Original Message - From: Monica Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 11:20 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Santiago de Murcia The latest issue of Early Music (May 2007) includes the article about the newly discovered Ms. of Santiago de Murcia although I haven't seen it yet. Monica -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html ~ Professor John Griffiths Faculty of Music =95 The University of Melbourne 3010 =95 Victoria =95 Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 =95 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 =95 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e- mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e- mail. --
[VIHUELA] Re: Early Music cover story
Thanks Michael for your detailed response. The points you raise in response all seem valid to me and serve to show the limits of our knowledge, the limitations and ambiguities of the sources, etc. A few of our observations, both yours and mine, show how our evolving contemporary experience of early instruments, string technology etc, are also informing our historical perspectives. Good wishes John On 23/05/2007, at 1:19, Michael Fink wrote: Hello John, How great to have you joining the list! And I'm honored and grateful that you have read, analyzed, and thoughtfully commented on my paper. I have a few responses, interpolated below. Many thanks, Michael -Original Message- From: John Griffiths [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 10:14 PM To: Vihuelalist Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Early Music cover story Dear Vihuela list, a few days ago William Bartlett contacted me following an exchange of ideas about Bermudo etc on this list. I thank him for contacting me because I didn't know that this particular mail group existed, so I have just joined up. I also downloaded and read Michael Fink's paper with interest and have a bit of feedback. This business of stringing and tuning still has a bit further to travel, but it is good that someone has attempted to gather the information together. So, thank you Michael. At the same time, I don't think we have it exactly right yet. The insuperable problem is that we still have insufficient information to be able to arrive at definitve conclusions. That means that we finish coming to our own beliefs about what was practised centuries ago. Beliefs, as distinct from knowledge, are more personal, and are often strongly coloured by our own views on the world. Right. I don't mean to sound doctrinaire, but I do wish to take a strong stand on what I've found and pieced together -- that is, until something more persuasive can be found and pieced together. What I would specifically like to comment upon in relation to Michael's paper has to do with taking a broader view of what the world sounded like four hundred years ago. Michael gives us some wonderful examples of cases where the four-course guitar needed to be simultaneously strung for re-entrant tuning and for use with bourdons. Somewhere in all of this is the fact that there was an increased desire during the sixteenth century to play serious composed music on an instrument probably originally conceived for (a) different function(s). The sixteenth-century repertory shows the great skill of composers and arrangers to make sophisticated music for a rather simple 4-course instrument with real limitations. For musicians with real concerns about hearing 6/4 sonorities where root- position harmonies are preferable, the solution was to buy a lute or a vihuela with more strings. If you couldn't, you probably just had to make do. The ear can learn to accept this compromise. That's a possibility, but Mudarra and Fuenllana studiously avoid the 6-4 chord at cadences. A lute or vihuela will take the player to a different sort of sound (not to mention a different, far broader, often more difficult repertoire). Having played a 4-course guitar for a little while now, I can say there is something uniquely intriguing in its sound. In a way, the instrument also challenges you to bring more out of it, which could lead to getting tricky, especially with the fourth course. (This last is personal, of course, not musicological.) On the specific conclusion that Michael makes on pages 6-7 of his paper about Mudarra, I would suggest considering interpreting Mudarra's comment The guitar... has to have a bourdon on the fourth course as primarily aimed at getting players not to play with a fully re-entrant fourth course (both strings high). This to me is more important than whether the strings are unison bourdons or with bourdon + octave string. So, Michael, I would rethink or extend your paragraph on page 7 about the 1547 guitarist. He may have had both strings requintadas before reading Mudarra's statement. Ah, this is probably the most controversial point in Spanish guitar music and theory. Reading only Mudarra's instruction with no other references, one can easily *infer* that the common practice was a fully re-entrant instrument, somewhat like that of Cerreto. This has been a common belief since at least 1981 (Gill). However, Tyler (1980) and (2002) did not buy into it, relying instead on Bermudo for tuning information before discussing Mudarra. My point is that we do have a contemporary theory source we must consider: Bermudo. If, in fact, the fully re-entrant tuning was common practice in Spain at the time, how can we account for Bermudo overlooking it in his detailed explanation of stringing and tuning
[VIHUELA] Re: who invented the guitar
Musica. 1283-1350 Guitarra Latina Guitar Moresca are mentioned multiple times in the poems of the Archpriest of Hita 1306 A gitarer was played at the Feast of Westminster in England 1404 Der mynnen regein by Eberhard Von Cersne makes reference to a quinterne. 1487 Johannes Tinctoris described the guitarra as being invented by the Catalans. This refers to the four course guitar. Each course represents one pair of double strings. 1546 Tres Libros de Musica en Cifras para Vihuela by Alonso Mudarra is the first publication to include music for guitar. 1551-1555 Nine books of tablature were published by Adrian Le Roy. These include the first pieces for 5 course guitar. The addition of the fifth course was attributed to Vicente Espinel 1600-1650 Many publications of tablature for the guitar. It's popularity begins to rival the lute. 1674 Publication of Guitarre Royal by F. Corbetta increased the guitar's popularity. It was dedicated to Louis XIV. 1770-1800 A sixth string was added to the guitar and the courses were replaced by single strings. 1800-1850 Guitar enjoyed a large popularity both in performances and publishing. Fernando Sor, Mauro Guiliani, Matteo Carcassi and Dioniso Aguado all performed, taught, wrote and had published their compositions. 1850-1892 Guitar maker Antonio de Torres develops the larger more resonant instrument we know today. 1916 Segovia performs at Ateneo, the most important concert hall in Madrid. Before this it was thought that the guitar did not have the volume for this type of venue. 1946 Nylon replaces gut as a string material http://earlymusiccharango.blogspot.com/ ___ Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html ~ Professor John Griffiths Faculty of Music =95 The University of Melbourne 3010 =95 Victoria =95 Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 =95 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 =95 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e- mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e- mail. --
[VIHUELA] Re: Early Music cover story
Radesca di Foggia e il suo tempo: Atti del Convegno di studi, Foggia, 7-8 Aprile 2000, ed. Francesca Seller. Lucca: Libreria Italiana Musicale, 2001. 37-57. Also, Francesco Nocerino, who has found an inventory of lutemakers workshops in 16th century Naples: La bottega dei `violari' napoletani Albanese e Matino in un inventario inedito del 1578. Liuteria, musica e cultura, 19-20 (19992000): 3-9. Sorry for such a long e-mail. I usually write much more briefly as time pressures are constantly restricting me. Good wishes, John On 20/05/2007, at 0:43, Michael Fink wrote: Appropos, I have just completed a paper on this topic, Stringing and Tuning the Renaissance Four-Course Guitar: Re-Thinking the Primary Sources. I have posted it to my website as a free download. Go to: http://www.guitarvihuela.com/Ren_guitar_tuning.htm I would welcome any and all feedback! Michael _ Michael Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ -Original Message- From: Monica Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 3:14 PM To: Jocelyn Nelson Cc: Vihuelalist Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Early Music cover story Hi Jocelyn This is an interesting question. I don't think there is a clear cut answer. It would be interesting to know what other people on the list think. The only person who really offers any insight into the matter is Bermudo who says that the old tuning is more suitable romances viejos and musica golpeado than for musica de el tiempo. Opinions are somewhat divided as to what musica golpeado means. It is often assumed that this means strummed music, but Antonio Corona in particular has argued that it actually means music which is homophonic - like the music in the Cancionero de Palacio, rather than polyphonic. It might be helpful to have the lowest interval as a 5th in this case. I think it is questionable whether having the 3rd and 4th courses a 4th apart rather than a 5th is more convenient when intabulating polyphonic music. Mudarra uses the old tuning for his first fantasia whereas the Pavana and Romanesca which are more chordal are in the new tuning. In the French books the avallee tunings used more to extend the compass downwards and incidentally Fuenllana includes pieces for vihuela with the 6th course tuned down for the same reason. I think one can't entirely rely on Bermudo who was a theorist, a keyboard player and possibly not a vihuela player. Apart from anything else, the 4-course guitar originally had a re-entrant tuning - that is why Mudarra says that it must have a bordon on the 4th course. Which complicates matters. The 4th course may have been tuned a 5th above rather than a 5th below. Monica - Original Message - From: Jocelyn Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Monica Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Early Music cover story Hi Monica, I have a grad student in my office with a project which is on Sor's Method, but her paper goes into historic tunings. Her paper mentions the old and new 4-course tunings of the 16th c. Do you happen to know why the new tuning came about? Her source (Sparks) leads her to believe that the new tuning was developed for more complex music. I practice quite a bit of the 4-course rep in both tunings. Do you have any thoughts on this? Many thanks, Jocelyn -- Jocelyn Nelson, DMA Early Guitar, Music History 336 Fletcher Music Center School of Music East Carolina University 252.328.1255 Office 252.328.6258 Fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Monica Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:48:16 +0100 To: William Bartlett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Early Music cover story The dissertation is Rogero Budasz The five-course guitar (viola) in Portugal and Brazil. I think you get copies from ProQuest 300 North Zeeb Road P.O.BOX1346 Ann Arbor Michigan 48106 Their web site is www.il.proquest.com The rest of your query is rather all embracing. If it is just the notation of vihuela music, this is the same as Italina lute tablature, apart from Luis Milan who has it upside down i.e. the top line is the highest course rather than the lowest as is usual in Italian tab. The clearest explanation of tablature is in Willi Apel's The notation of polyphonic music which was published as long ago as 1953. This is what I used to learn to read tablature. John Ward's dissertation is a survey of the music. You could probably get this from Pro Quest too. It is called The vihuela de mano and it's music. It was also written in 1953. John Griffiths has done this rather useful work book Taner vihuela segun Juan Bermudo but published in Spain by the Institutucion Fernando el Catolico in 2003. I think
