Re: scp to VMS (Re: mms case sensitivity build failures (was Re: HP hobbyist license))
On 5/22/2012 3:18 PM, Mark Berryman wrote: Instead, I simply built libssh2 on the unix box and used the example program sftp_write.c I just tried the sftp program in Scientific Linux 6.1 and it can upload files. The help for it says that it can recursively upload a directory. It looks like uploads either require interactive mode, or batch file mode. Downloads can be done with a simple command line. Or, use Multinet. It is just so much better. Not an option in this case, the remote system is maintained by HP. I also found that 'scp -2' is supposed to force SCP into using V2 of the protocol. No change seen in behavior from doing this. Regards, -John Personal Opinion Only
Re: scp to VMS (Re: mms case sensitivity build failures (was Re: HP hobbyist license))
On May 23, 2012, at 5:22 PM, John E. Malmberg wrote: I also found that 'scp -2' is supposed to force SCP into using V2 of the protocol. No change seen in behavior from doing this. I think that means version 2 of ssh, the network protocol, whereas scp2 uses sftp as the file transfer protocol instead of rcp as the file transfer protocol like plain old scp does. ___ Craig A. Berry mailto:craigbe...@mac.com ... getting out of a sonnet is much more difficult than getting in. Brad Leithauser
Re: scp to VMS (Re: mms case sensitivity build failures (was Re: HP hobbyist license))
On May 19, 2012, at 11:03 AM, John E. Malmberg wrote: On 5/19/2012 2:56 AM, Nicholas Clark wrote: Yes, this is the fun, and why it turns out that scp from VMS out to *nix works, but not the other way. Pretty much every *nix is using OpenSSH, whereas the VMS ssh is commercial ssh. OpenSSH has the original scp command, which I think is actually the source code of rcp with some edits. The rcp design is to have the same binary able to act as client and server. OpenSSH also provides sftp. snip I am passing on the following information to the Office of VMS Programs: It appears that the issue with SCP into TCPIP 5.7, is that it is trying to run the program TCPIP$SSH_SCP1.EXE, and generates that error message when it fails. Which means that either that image is missing from the kit or it was never built. From trying to substitute tcpip$ssh_scp2.exe for it, I get a different error about unexpected new-line. This means that if the issue is more complicated than just the image accidentally left out of the TCPIP KIT, we could probably substitute an open source program by assigning the logical name TCPIP$SSH_SCP1 to it. The OpenSSH project contains an SCP1 program that will probably work. When one TCPIP services node uses SCP to speak to another TCPIP services node, it properly invokes the SFTP subsystem to handle the file transfer. When SCP from any other system, including a VMS system running Multinet, tries to speak SCP to a system running TCPIP services, this does not happen and the transfer fails. I have not dug into why it works when TCPIP services is talking to itself but not when anyone else tries to talk to it. Instead, I simply built libssh2 on the unix box and used the example program sftp_write.c to put a simple transfer program together. As written, the command sftp_write host_ip_addr username password source_file dest_file works when talking to a TCPIP services host. It is fairly trivial to change the code to accept standard SCP syntax and use public-key authentication. Or, use Multinet. It is just so much better. Mark Berryman
Re: scp to VMS (Re: mms case sensitivity build failures (was Re: HP hobbyist license))
Hello, well you might be able to not use your normal account for the transfer, but a special one confined to a restricted shell (aka captive account for the VMS only people on the list ;-) If you do go down the http route, curl is available on VMS too for command line access to http. Greetings, Martin P.S. And yes, it is pretty annoying that scp is broken on VMS since a long time |-- |Nicholas Clark| |n...@ccl4.org | |Sent by: Nicholas | |Clark | |n...@flirble.org| | | | | |19/05/2012 09:47 | |-- -- | | | | | To| |martin.zin...@eurexchange.com | | cc| |Craig A. Berry craigbe...@mac.com, Thomas Pfau tfp...@gmail.com, VMSperl Mailing List vmsperl@perl.org | | Subject| |Re: scp to VMS (Re: mms case sensitivity build failures (was Re: HP hobbyist license))| | | | | | | | | | | -- ---| | | ---| On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 09:48:43AM +0200, martin.zin...@eurexchange.com wrote: Hello, a.) Agree with Craig on scp . If this is fixed either it is extremely recent (doesn't work with 5.7 ECO 3) or it needs some additional magic. b.) In case you just need to move around Perl source files, which are not terribly secret, you could use FTP instead of scp. On the VMS side of the house, the easiest way to do so is The source files aren't terribly secret, but any password I need to log into the remote server I'm getting them from is. :-( (Although therefore I could just serve them up over HTTP and solve it that way) Nicholas Clark
Re: scp to VMS (Re: mms case sensitivity build failures (was Re: HP hobbyist license))
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 09:48:43AM +0200, martin.zin...@eurexchange.com wrote: Hello, a.) Agree with Craig on scp . If this is fixed either it is extremely recent (doesn't work with 5.7 ECO 3) or it needs some additional magic. b.) In case you just need to move around Perl source files, which are not terribly secret, you could use FTP instead of scp. On the VMS side of the house, the easiest way to do so is The source files aren't terribly secret, but any password I need to log into the remote server I'm getting them from is. :-( (Although therefore I could just serve them up over HTTP and solve it that way) Nicholas Clark
Re: scp to VMS (Re: mms case sensitivity build failures (was Re: HP hobbyist license))
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 12:16:14PM -0500, Craig A. Berry wrote: On May 17, 2012, at 5:49 AM, Thomas Pfau wrote: I understand this problem is fixed with the new ssh that comes with OpenVMS 8.4. Prior to this, scp does not work to openssh systems. It seems not, actually. With a server that looks like: $ tcpip show vers HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Industry Standard 64 Version V5.7 - ECO 2 on an HP rx2600 (1.50GHz/6.0MB) running OpenVMS V8.4 coming from an OS X client (with remote address changed to protect the guilty): So while I probably had the nomenclature and version numbers confused in my previous post, there is definitely something still wrong with agreeing on a mutually acceptable version of something. It looks like it's a very old problem for servers that do not support multiple protocols: http://www.snailbook.com/faq/scp-ossh-to-ssh2.auto.html. Yes, this is the fun, and why it turns out that scp from VMS out to *nix works, but not the other way. Pretty much every *nix is using OpenSSH, whereas the VMS ssh is commercial ssh. OpenSSH has the original scp command, which I think is actually the source code of rcp with some edits. The rcp design is to have the same binary able to act as client and server. OpenSSH also provides sftp. What then happened was that the commercial ssh tools were re-written, with scp2 being a new version, command-line compatible with the existing scp, but implemented completely differently. Instead of using ssh to start another instance of the scp program on the remote host, it uses the sftp subsystem. This is why one can run scp on VMS to talk to a *nix system, but not the other way. (Been ill for the past couple of days, hence why I've not replied to any e-mail. Or done much else, either, for that matter) Nicholas Clark
Re: scp to VMS (Re: mms case sensitivity build failures (was Re: HP hobbyist license))
On 5/19/2012 2:56 AM, Nicholas Clark wrote: Yes, this is the fun, and why it turns out that scp from VMS out to *nix works, but not the other way. Pretty much every *nix is using OpenSSH, whereas the VMS ssh is commercial ssh. OpenSSH has the original scp command, which I think is actually the source code of rcp with some edits. The rcp design is to have the same binary able to act as client and server. OpenSSH also provides sftp. snip I am passing on the following information to the Office of VMS Programs: It appears that the issue with SCP into TCPIP 5.7, is that it is trying to run the program TCPIP$SSH_SCP1.EXE, and generates that error message when it fails. Which means that either that image is missing from the kit or it was never built. From trying to substitute tcpip$ssh_scp2.exe for it, I get a different error about unexpected new-line. This means that if the issue is more complicated than just the image accidentally left out of the TCPIP KIT, we could probably substitute an open source program by assigning the logical name TCPIP$SSH_SCP1 to it. The OpenSSH project contains an SCP1 program that will probably work. Regards, -John
Re: scp to VMS (Re: mms case sensitivity build failures (was Re: HP hobbyist license))
Hello, a.) Agree with Craig on scp . If this is fixed either it is extremely recent (doesn't work with 5.7 ECO 3) or it needs some additional magic. b.) In case you just need to move around Perl source files, which are not terribly secret, you could use FTP instead of scp. On the VMS side of the house, the easiest way to do so is CFD004 copy/ftp temp.txt 10.10.245.115zinsmar password::exchange/ /log %TCPIP-S-FTP_COPIED, SYSPROG$DISK:[ZINSER]temp.txt;1 copied to 10.10.245.115zinsmar password::exchange/temp.txt (10 bytes) CFD004 copy/ftp 10.10.245.115zinsmar password::exchange/temp.txt *.*/log %TCPIP-S-FTP_COPIED, 10.10.245.115zinsmar password::exchange/temp.txt copied to SYSPROG$DISK:[ZINSER]temp.txt;2 (10 bytes) Where password in the command has to be replaced with your actual password. I am sure you know how to do this on the Unix side of the house ;-) Greetings, Martin | |Craig A. Berry| |craigbe...@mac.com| || |17/05/2012 19:16| | -- | | | | | To| |Thomas Pfau tfp...@gmail.com | | cc| |VMSperl Mailing List vmsperl@perl.org | | Subject| |Re: scp to VMS (Re: mms case sensitivity build failures (was Re: HP hobbyist license))| | | | | | | | | | | -- ---| | | ---| On May 17, 2012, at 5:49 AM, Thomas Pfau wrote: I understand this problem is fixed with the new ssh that comes with OpenVMS 8.4. Prior to this, scp does not work to openssh systems. It seems not, actually. With a server that looks like: $ tcpip show vers HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Industry Standard 64 Version V5.7 - ECO 2 on an HP rx2600 (1.50GHz/6.0MB) running OpenVMS V8.4 coming from an OS X client (with remote address changed to protect the guilty): % scp -v test.txt craig@192.168.1.2: Executing: program /usr/bin/ssh host 192.168.1.2, user craig, command scp -v -t -- . OpenSSH_5.6p1, OpenSSL 0.9.8r 8 Feb 2011 debug1: Reading configuration data /Users/craig/.ssh/config debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh_config debug1: Applying options for * debug1: Connecting to 192.168.1.2 [192.168.1.2] port 22. debug1: Connection established. debug1: identity file /Users/craig/.ssh/id_rsa type 1 debug1: identity file /Users/craig/.ssh/id_rsa-cert type -1 debug1: identity file /Users/craig/.ssh/id_dsa type -1 debug1: identity file /Users/craig/.ssh/id_dsa-cert type -1 debug1: Remote protocol version 2.0, remote software version 3.2.0 SSH OpenVMS V5.5 VMS_sftp_version 3 debug1: no match: 3.2.0 SSH OpenVMS V5.5 VMS_sftp_version 3 debug1: Enabling compatibility mode for protocol 2.0 debug1: Local version string SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.6 debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT sent debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT received debug1: kex: server-client aes128-cbc hmac-md5 none debug1: kex: client-server aes128-cbc hmac-md5 none debug1: sending SSH2_MSG_KEXDH_INIT debug1: expecting
Re: scp to VMS (Re: mms case sensitivity build failures (was Re: HP hobbyist license))
I understand this problem is fixed with the new ssh that comes with OpenVMS 8.4. Prior to this, scp does not work to openssh systems. On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 11:17 PM, Craig A. Berry craigbe...@mac.com wrote: On May 16, 2012, at 11:36 AM, Mark Berryman wrote: 1: Is there any easy way to get an scp2 client for Unix, so that I can scp to them? (And use editors remotely) SCP clients definitely work to VMS systems as I use them extensively. It has been awhile since I set up a TCPIP Services system (I use Multinet myself) but, if you have any error messages or log files, especially from the VMS side, I may be able to help. I'm almost positive scp only works with Multinet, not TCP/IP Services. IIRC, the HP scp server errors out with something about not talking SSH 1.0, only 2.0, but in fact it is its own fault for failing to recognize the 2.0 handshake sent by the client. If someone has a contrary example of using a modern scp client to talk to the TCP/IP Services server, I'd love to know how to make it work. Craig A. Berry mailto:craigbe...@mac.com ... getting out of a sonnet is much more difficult than getting in. Brad Leithauser -- Thomas Pfau tfp...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/thomaspfau http://nbpfaus.net/~pfau/
Re: scp to VMS (Re: mms case sensitivity build failures (was Re: HP hobbyist license))
On May 17, 2012, at 5:49 AM, Thomas Pfau wrote: I understand this problem is fixed with the new ssh that comes with OpenVMS 8.4. Prior to this, scp does not work to openssh systems. It seems not, actually. With a server that looks like: $ tcpip show vers HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Industry Standard 64 Version V5.7 - ECO 2 on an HP rx2600 (1.50GHz/6.0MB) running OpenVMS V8.4 coming from an OS X client (with remote address changed to protect the guilty): % scp -v test.txt craig@192.168.1.2: Executing: program /usr/bin/ssh host 192.168.1.2, user craig, command scp -v -t -- . OpenSSH_5.6p1, OpenSSL 0.9.8r 8 Feb 2011 debug1: Reading configuration data /Users/craig/.ssh/config debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh_config debug1: Applying options for * debug1: Connecting to 192.168.1.2 [192.168.1.2] port 22. debug1: Connection established. debug1: identity file /Users/craig/.ssh/id_rsa type 1 debug1: identity file /Users/craig/.ssh/id_rsa-cert type -1 debug1: identity file /Users/craig/.ssh/id_dsa type -1 debug1: identity file /Users/craig/.ssh/id_dsa-cert type -1 debug1: Remote protocol version 2.0, remote software version 3.2.0 SSH OpenVMS V5.5 VMS_sftp_version 3 debug1: no match: 3.2.0 SSH OpenVMS V5.5 VMS_sftp_version 3 debug1: Enabling compatibility mode for protocol 2.0 debug1: Local version string SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.6 debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT sent debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT received debug1: kex: server-client aes128-cbc hmac-md5 none debug1: kex: client-server aes128-cbc hmac-md5 none debug1: sending SSH2_MSG_KEXDH_INIT debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEXDH_REPLY debug1: Host '192.168.1.2' is known and matches the DSA host key. debug1: Found key in /Users/craig/.ssh/known_hosts:13 debug1: ssh_dss_verify: signature correct debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS sent debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS received debug1: Roaming not allowed by server debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_REQUEST sent debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_ACCEPT received Welcome to HP OpenVMS Industry Standard 64 Operating System, Version V8.4 debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey,password debug1: Next authentication method: publickey debug1: Offering RSA public key: /Users/craig/.ssh/id_rsa debug1: Server accepts key: pkalg ssh-rsa blen 149 debug1: Authentication succeeded (publickey). Authenticated to 192.168.1.2 ([192.168.1.2]:22). debug1: channel 0: new [client-session] debug1: Entering interactive session. debug1: Sending environment. debug1: Sending env LANG = en_US.UTF-8 debug1: Sending command: scp -v -t -- . scp1 compatibility mode is not supported. So while I probably had the nomenclature and version numbers confused in my previous post, there is definitely something still wrong with agreeing on a mutually acceptable version of something. It looks like it's a very old problem for servers that do not support multiple protocols: http://www.snailbook.com/faq/scp-ossh-to-ssh2.auto.html. If someone finds an open source scp2 client, please holler. Craig A. Berry mailto:craigbe...@mac.com ... getting out of a sonnet is much more difficult than getting in. Brad Leithauser
scp to VMS (Re: mms case sensitivity build failures (was Re: HP hobbyist license))
On May 16, 2012, at 11:36 AM, Mark Berryman wrote: 1: Is there any easy way to get an scp2 client for Unix, so that I can scp to them? (And use editors remotely) SCP clients definitely work to VMS systems as I use them extensively. It has been awhile since I set up a TCPIP Services system (I use Multinet myself) but, if you have any error messages or log files, especially from the VMS side, I may be able to help. I'm almost positive scp only works with Multinet, not TCP/IP Services. IIRC, the HP scp server errors out with something about not talking SSH 1.0, only 2.0, but in fact it is its own fault for failing to recognize the 2.0 handshake sent by the client. If someone has a contrary example of using a modern scp client to talk to the TCP/IP Services server, I'd love to know how to make it work. Craig A. Berry mailto:craigbe...@mac.com ... getting out of a sonnet is much more difficult than getting in. Brad Leithauser
