On 2012-12-07 16:02, Jed Rothwell wrote:
I do not like this graph on page 2:
http://www.22passi.it/pirelli/2%20layers%20constantan%20wire%20EDX%20and%20extra%20heat.pdf
I attempted to reinterpret the (new) graph on page 2 to make it easier
to understand. I admit that at first I had almost no
On 2012-12-08 11:15, Akira Shirakawa wrote:
I attempted to reinterpret the (new) graph on page 2 to make it easier
to understand. I admit that at first I had almost no idea of what it was
trying to convey. Now I think I do:
http://i.imgur.com/A0OBf.png
Combining data from the table on the
Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote:
Combining data from the table on the left and the new graph (and some
plausible assumptions) I managed to plot a graph of input power vs excess
power:
http://i.imgur.com/L9CV7.png
At the highest point it's 21.8% more output power than the
Another thing I wonder is whether STM obtained the piece of wire from
Celani or did the pre-processing by them selves using a different type of
constantan wire. The briefing seems not very clear on that.
On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Akira Shirakawa
be proven that the device
calibrates to a straight line without excess power then perhaps so.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sat, Dec 8, 2012 10:46 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Independent validation of thermal anomalies from
On 2012-12-07 16:02, Jed Rothwell wrote:
I do not like this graph on page 2:
http://www.22passi.it/pirelli/2%20layers%20constantan%20wire%20EDX%20and%20extra%20heat.pdf
There are no calibration points above 0.5 W input, and no live run data
points below that. You have to have calibration
Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote:
In an update posted by Daniele Passerini on his 22passi blog, Ubaldo
Mastromatteo, main author of this Celani effect replication at STM labs,
forwarded a graph showing a [one of many?] calibration run:
On 2012-12-08 22:01, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Those are the same data points shown in the other graph.
Indeed the graphs doesn't show this very clearly, but if you compare
both of them carefully (check again!), in this case all data points are
aligned with the linear/no excess heat trend line.
Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote:
They need to try a fully inert
wire made from another substance, calibrating through the full range of
temperatures that the active wire exposed to.
They're doing it with a deactivated/inert Celani wire.
After the calibration process they
On 2012-12-08 23:27, Jed Rothwell wrote:
They are doing this now? Or do you mean they did it before but those
data points are not published yet.
That's what they did. The graphed calibration data points are in the
document I previously linked. It's certainly not the full data set. It's
On 2012-12-05 16:01, Akira Shirakawa wrote:
Hello group,
A quick update from Celani forwarded to 22passi:
Dear Colleagues,
just after the chaotic discovering of the name of the original Company
(06 December 2012) that make replication of our experiment, I realised
that some of the documents
Celani wrote:
A) The wire is long ONLY 20cm (usually I used 100cm);
B) The layers are ONLY 2 (i.e. type 2L). Usually I used 300-700 layers;
So it is not surprising the reaction is smaller.
D) They made CALORIMETRIC measurements, not only termometry;
He means THERMOMETRY.
- Jed
I do not like this graph on page 2:
http://www.22passi.it/pirelli/2%20layers%20constantan%20wire%20EDX%20and%20extra%20heat.pdf
There are no calibration points above 0.5 W input, and no live run data
points below that. You have to have calibration points at the same power
levels as the live run.
On 2012-12-07 16:02, Jed Rothwell wrote:
[...] I am not happy with this. I need more information to judge it, but it
gives me a bad feeling.
I feel your confusion. Hopefully the full slides bound to be presented
(and released to the public) on December 14th [1] will help clarify this.
At 04:07 PM 12/6/2012, Alain Sepeda wrote:
this is why they ask for a tea kettle. Me I call that a shoebox...
put on a table a shoebox with a device that clearly can convince a
kid of 5, my mother and a 9/11 denialist, and you win.
everything that ask for a PhD, or some honesty, or some
On 2012-12-05 16:13, Akira Shirakawa wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/yA7HS.jpg
I tried making an improved, clearer chart with data from this slide,
showing the relationship between wire temperature and excess power. I've
also extrapolated an additional data point at 400 °C:
Jeff Berkowitz pdx...@gmail.com wrote:
Now we have this new result showing ~1 watt of excess heat at some high
operating power (not stated but sufficient to raise the cell temp to 350C).
By implication, I am asked to believe that the team making the measurement
can somehow achieve absolute
At 02:54 AM 12/6/2012, you wrote:
Push noise down or raise the signal a high up- this is the basic option.
The first choice is passive, the second active.
Which one will one lead to useful Cold Fusion?
Cart before the horse, Peter. The first issues are scientific, and
exploring the parameter
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com wrote:
Cart before the horse, Peter. The first issues are scientific, and
exploring the parameter space is *more difficult* if, at the same time,
high signal is required. Pushing noise down by careful experimental
design can save a lot of money and
Dear Abd,
perhaps we will discuss this in a separate thread, here the main subject is
the success of one of my best friends Francesco Celani and he has surely
the vision of how to go further and his strategy of doing the next steps
and so on. Very probably such confirmations of increasing
At 02:21 PM 12/6/2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Right. And important. Work with what you have, don't hold out for
something better but unobtainable.
Ah, my cells will produce *much more important results* if I use a
cathode wire made out of unobtainium. It's very expensive, though.
Send me a
On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Jeff Berkowitz pdx...@gmail.com wrote:
Now we have this new result showing ~1 watt of excess heat at some high
operating power (not stated but sufficient to raise the cell temp to 350C).
By implication, I am asked to
At 02:35 PM 12/6/2012, Peter Gluck wrote:
Dear Abd,
perhaps we will discuss this in a separate thread, here the main
subject is the success of one of my best friends Francesco Celani
and he has surely the vision of how to go further and his strategy
of doing the next steps and so on. Very
Jeff Berkowitz pdx...@gmail.com wrote:
Sorry, I choose not to believe this right now.
On what basis? Do you know anything about their calorimetry?
No, and that is my point.
If you do not know, then the correct attitude is not to doubt the results,
and not to believe them either. You
Scientifically you are perfectly right, and i learned much about that
counter intuitive fact.
however we are not in a lab but in an open air psychiatric hospital.
the problem is not to convince scientists, but to convinces blinds stubborn
kids of 5 with a tenure.
The only way to convince the
Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote:
Scientifically you are perfectly right, and i learned much about that
counter intuitive fact.
however we are not in a lab but in an open air psychiatric hospital.
the problem is not to convince scientists, but to convinces blinds
stubborn kids of 5
On 2012-12-05 16:01, Akira Shirakawa wrote:
Hello group,
An improved version of Celani's ICCF17 presentation in a scientific
paper format was also posted on the same blog:
http://www.22passi.it/pirelli/ICCF17CelaniArtD.pdf
These are the slides mentioned in the opening post, edited to show
That wire looks to have hair and coral growing on it.
Powerpoint file seems corrupt.
I can't open it.
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Akira Shirakawa
shirakawa.ak...@gmail.comwrote:
On 2012-12-05 16:01, Akira Shirakawa wrote:
Hello group,
An improved version of Celani's ICCF17 presentation in a scientific paper
format was also posted on the
Yeah, I got all sorts of error messages; but, kept hitting enter and it opened.
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.com wrote:
Powerpoint file seems corrupt.
I can't open it.
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com
wrote:
Akira,
Is the implication that ST Microelectronics is the validator?
One wonders if they are an investor as well? Makes sense in a way ...
They are a Swiss-based $10 billion company best known for the recent purchase
of Ericsson. President and CEO: Carlo Bozotti ... sounds like an Italian
STMicroelectronics have patents in this field of research I found earlier.
So, it's not so strange to see them involved.
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
Akira,
Is the implication that ST Microelectronics is the validator?
One wonders if they are an
Ain't that nice!
This should encourage the M.F.M. people to keep at it.
Celani says they used a completely different reactor. That's good. I
assume that means a different cell configuration that allows some other
method of calorimetry.
- Jed
Dear Akira,
I cannot open the file with the results- how great is the excess heat?
Let's see what is doing Quantum Heat now.And other groups tryingto
reproduce Francesco's method.
Peter
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.comwrote:
STMicroelectronics have patents
On 2012-12-05 16:50, Peter Gluck wrote:
Dear Akira,
I cannot open the file with the results-
Try this:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/48w8fsbd5jigwr8/pirelli_wire_a.pdf
how great is the excess heat?
1.16W at 350 °C
Wire mass = 0.055 g
length = 200 mm
diameter = 0.2 mm
Input power not
Did you find a particular patent - which is similar to Celani?
A google patent search for
assignee:stmicroelectronics hydrogen
returns 8000 hits - mostly for fuel cells. Nothing specific turns up .
although .
It makes sense that in fuel cell RD - STM could have inadvertently found
Thank you- this worked. The efffect of the proper
nanostructures - as Piantelli has demonstrated it first - is a scientific
certainty.
Peter
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 5:57 PM, Akira Shirakawa
shirakawa.ak...@gmail.comwrote:
On 2012-12-05 16:50, Peter Gluck wrote:
Dear Akira,
I cannot open the
On 2012-12-05 16:01, Akira Shirakawa wrote:
Hello group,
The results of this independent validation will likely be presented
during this event, on December 14th:
http://www.22passi.it/coherence2012/Coherence%202012_Brochure.pdf
Have a look at the bottom left portion of the second page of
On 2012-12-05 16:47, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Ain't that nice!
This should encourage the M.F.M. people to keep at it.
It appears they have been already aware of these results for weeks, but
they had an agreement to not disclose them before mid-December (too late
now). Maybe that's where much of
thanks for the image... and also for the leak about STMicro (8o)
note that ST have been seen earlier
http://www.lenrforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=37t=150p=461hilit=STMicroelectronics#p461
10th International Workshop on Anomalies in Hydrogen Loaded Metals
*10-14 April 2012 *
MFMP have done very careful work and documented it well. Yet when they
showed a watt or so of apparent excess heat around the U.S. Thanksgiving
holiday, they did not make a claim. Instead, they held it to be in the
noise, not clearly separable from the variance between their calibration
runs.
Now
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 11:02 PM, Jeff Berkowitz pdx...@gmail.com wrote:
Now we have this new result showing ~1 watt of excess heat at some high
operating power (not stated but sufficient to raise the cell temp to 350C).
By implication, I am asked to believe that the team making the measurement
Push noise down or raise the signal a high up- this is the basic option.
The first choice is passive, the second active.
Which one will one lead to useful Cold Fusion?
The main trend today is silent implicit desperation.
Peter
On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com
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