On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 7:40 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
I am fairly confident that these inventors do not claim that the electrical
energy recovered due to the returning piston is significant compared to the
mechanical output.
I haven't followed this detail up to now. Here
I think we are dealing with an entropic force that can remove entropy from
the gas at times as well as give it back in the way of charged particles
On Monday, December 31, 2012, Eric Walker wrote:
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 7:40 PM, David Roberson
dlrober...@aol.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, Dec 31, 2012 8:57 am
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Papp and Water
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 7:40 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
I am fairly confident that these inventors do not claim that the electrical
energy recovered due
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 8:56 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
I suppose that a large capacitor bank could let loose and so some damage,
but in this case I recall that mechanical shrapnel did the damage. Most
likely this was a result of the engine running at too high of a speed.
. My gut feeling is that it is not going to
work.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, Dec 31, 2012 12:51 pm
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Papp and Water
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 8:56 AM, David Roberson dlrober
-
From: Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'eric.wal...@gmail.com');
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'vortex-l@eskimo.com');
Sent: Mon, Dec 31, 2012 12:51 pm
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Papp and Water
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 8:56 AM
On Dec 31, 2012, at 10:40, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
I was trying to come up with any way that energy could be delivered by the
Papp while leaving the gas cool.
It occurs to me now that we may have made a simple problem into a difficult
one. Our initial challenge is to find
Sent: Mon, Dec 31, 2012 2:44 pm
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Papp and Water
On Dec 31, 2012, at 10:40, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
I was trying to come up with any way that energy could be delivered by the Papp
while leaving the gas cool.
It occurs to me now that we may
Sent: Mon, Dec 31, 2012 3:01 pm
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Papp and Water
On Dec 31, 2012, at 11:55, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
I am not sure I understand what you are suggesting. Does the piston return to
its beginning point with each cycle? If so, at least a complete loop
: [Vo]:Papp and Water
At 09:55 AM 12/28/2012, Roarty, Francis X wrote:
Axil,
etc.
This is Vortex, and you guys are certainly free to speculate at the
drop of a hat or a popper.
However, I'm also free to note that trying to figure out what is
going on with Russ's popper, when we have just about
At 06:02 PM 12/30/2012, David Roberson wrote:
I just came to the realization that most of the demonstrations that
Russ has performed do not show much real work output. The piston is
driven upward by the spark activated mixture, but then returns to
the starting point. Any work done on the
Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, Dec 30, 2012 8:46 pm
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Papp and Water
At 06:02 PM 12/30/2012, David Roberson wrote:
I just came to the realization that most of the demonstrations that
Russ has
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 6:39 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
Therefore, if no heat is detected within the gas at the conclusion of the
cycle, then there is no work done on the piston by that gas. For this
reason it is not possible to measure the output of a Popp type system just
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote:
I suspect that work must necessarily be done on the Papp popper at the very
beginning, during the first discharge, and that this work can be measured
and tell us whether the cycle is overunity.
But as I think about it
heats that initial mix of
gases. The elevated gas temperature results in elevated gas pressure holding
up the piston.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, Dec 30, 2012 9:53 pm
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Papp
compared to the
mechanical output.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, Dec 30, 2012 10:15 pm
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Papp and Water
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote
The Papp reaction will be revealing to those who are interested in the DGT
LENR reaction in that it is similar to the spark discharge that is being
used in the DGT reaction. If it is true that we know nothing about the Papp
reaction, then the same must be said about the function of spark energy
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 8:25 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
a...@lomaxdesign.comwrote:
At 07:48 PM 12/28/2012, James Bowery wrote:
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Axil Axil mailto:janap...@gmail.comja
**nap...@gmail.com janap...@gmail.com wrote:
Heat output can be neglected.
I strongly
A simplified experiment is the most elegant, the most understandable, and
the most convincing.
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax is wise to suggest that the pressure of air compression
by the piston in the popper is best removed as an experimental variable.
His astute suggestion about the addition of weight
At 03:20 PM 12/29/2012, Axil Axil wrote:
The height that the weighted piston travels upward to a stop
determines the output energy of the popper.
Well, that shows the work done by the piston.
Unavoidably, the energy associated with the feedback current must be
determined and added to the
releasing energy at the
same rate on the reassociation portion of the cycle.
Fran
From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 1:41 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Papp and Water
The recombination of atomic hydrogen to diatomic hydrogen
At 09:55 AM 12/28/2012, Roarty, Francis X wrote:
Axil,
etc.
This is Vortex, and you guys are certainly free to speculate at the
drop of a hat or a popper.
However, I'm also free to note that trying to figure out what is
going on with Russ's popper, when we have just about zero information
Your opinion is most valuable. What do you recommend in terms of
experimental detail?
I posted previously that an accelerometer installed on the piston would
provide the finest grained experimental detail.
A graphic profile of the piston’s movement plotted against time could be
converted to
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
Heat output can be neglected.
I strongly disagree.
We hear a lot about how the temperature doesn't rise in any degree
approaching what one would expect from the joule input but one must recall
that this is one of the most
At 07:34 PM 12/28/2012, Axil Axil wrote:
Your opinion is most valuable. What do you recommend in terms of
experimental detail?
I posted previously that an accelerometer installed on the piston
would provide the finest grained experimental detail.
Yes. I think I said the same. But if we
At 07:48 PM 12/28/2012, James Bowery wrote:
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Axil Axil
mailto:janap...@gmail.comjanap...@gmail.com wrote:
Heat output can be neglected.
I strongly disagree.
We hear a lot about how the temperature doesn't rise in any degree
approaching what one would expect
On Dec 28, 2012, at 20:25, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com wrote:
Whether there is any need to look for heat, then, is a subsidiary question.
Is there excess energy, expressed in piston motion?
This makes sense. Look for first order effects, then zero in on second order
effects if
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