The hydrogen model

[thomas malloy]

George Holtz wrote;

 I built
- a mathcad model from Puthoff's hydrogen orbit ZPE absorption
- model stability paper. The numbers are mind blowing. IIRC
- the radiation intensity ,if Maxwell's equations applied,

What is IIRC?

 is
- about 10E30 watts for a single hydrogen atom.

Wow, that is a large amount of energy! Rather like opening the flood gates, eh?

It makes one
- realize just how large an elephant we have swept under the rug

Now all you have to do is figure out how to harness that elephant.

- with the QM assumption of no radiation. The model confirmed
- Puthoff's calculation that the absorption from the standard
- QM ZPE would equal this radiated amount at the accepted
- orbital radius. I have some partly baked ideas on why we do not
- detect this radiation and how Puthoff's model could be extended
- to higher Z atoms.

Higher Z atoms? does that translate as heavier atoms?

 The extended model also suggests the existence of
 - many Hydrino like states for hydrogen.

David Moon postulated the existence of shrunken hydrogen too. He 
believed that energy input would be required in order to achieve this 
however.

Magnetic Power device

[thomas malloy]

In an interview given to PES, Mark Goldes speculates about a 
magnetically powered unit he's attempting to develop. Mark speculates 
that the energy is coming from the ZPE. My response is, we don't know 
that. 
http://pesn.com/2005/06/17/9600113_MagneticPowerInc_Pre-Production/

Re: Magnetic Power device

[Noel D. Whitney]

REf Yrs on mark Goldes,

has anyone seen or conducted test on any of these pieces of Kit?
Or are we in a Stan Meyer scenario again?

Rgds from Ireland.

Noel Whitney - Quantum leap Ltd
- Original Message - 
From: thomas malloy [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 9:32 AM
Subject: Magnetic Power device


In an interview given to PES, Mark Goldes speculates about a 
magnetically powered unit he's attempting to develop. Mark speculates 
that the energy is coming from the ZPE. My response is, we don't know 
that. 
http://pesn.com/2005/06/17/9600113_MagneticPowerInc_Pre-Production/

Re: Sunshine-Propelled Craft Is Set to Sail in Space

[Terry Blanton]

 From: Harry Veeder 

 Solar sails work on a relatively simple principle -- that beams of light
 bouncing off a reflective surface will transmit a push to the surface,
 driving it forward.

Are you sure of this?  A photon's relative mass is given by the ratio of 
momentum to light speed.  To impart momentum to the solar sail, how is this 
ratio altered?

Fw: Magnetic Power device

[Noel D. Whitney]

- Original Message - 
From: Noel D. Whitney [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: Magnetic Power device



REf Yrs on mark Goldes,

has anyone seen or conducted test on any of these pieces of Kit?
Or are we in a Stan Meyer scenario again?

Rgds from Ireland.

Noel Whitney - Quantum leap Ltd
- Original Message - 

From: thomas malloy [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 9:32 AM
Subject: Magnetic Power device


In an interview given to PES, Mark Goldes speculates about a 
magnetically powered unit he's attempting to develop. Mark speculates 
that the energy is coming from the ZPE. My response is, we don't know 
that. 
http://pesn.com/2005/06/17/9600113_MagneticPowerInc_Pre-Production/

Re: Uncommitted Electrons MAHG Etc.

[Frederick Sparber]

The Electron Affinity of neutral Monatomic Hydrogen (H -) is ~0.75 eV.

If the MAHG filament circuit is "pumping" Uncommitted Electrons (UE)s 
from earth ground when it is hot enough to emit electrons and build up
a space charge of emitted and (UE)s attached to H forming ( H -) anions
that drift to the grounded chamber walls there should be some "free energy" in there.

Same type of effect in Electrolysis cells or H2O splitting in Hurricane "Vortices" ?

Would there be "OU" in isolated battery-powered MAHGs or Electrolysis Cells?

Frederick

Magnetic Power Inc.

[Mark Goldes]

Vorts,

MPI is presently developing what we expect will be definitive prototypes, 
capable of being independently validated in Hal Puthoff's lab.


The interview, and my pair of posts on ZPenergy that triggered it, reflect a 
gap in our working capital that has slowed the work.  We are seeking a few 
more Accredited Angel investors.  That problem may end shortly.  If it was 
not necessary, we would leave publicity of any kind to our present and 
future licensees.


The urgency of getting new power sources to market makes any slowdown in 
development unaccptable.  If we are correct that ordinary utility hardware 
can be converted into generators, (albeit with a substantial loss in output 
power)that is a happy surprise.  I will not say more about that possibility 
until a later stage in the patent process.


As to the source of the energy being ZPE.  I believe that to be the case.  
But, practical technology is our goal, not debating theory.  We are 
developing our own model.  Eventually, general agreement is likely to emerge 
from a great deal of debate as to the enegy source.


Mark

Re: OT:The will of Valis

[Jones Beene]

Stephen A. Lawrence writes,

And what's all this Elvis stuff?  The singer in the book was 
Clapton, was he not?  Or am I confused?  (A common feeling with 
PD's work.)


Confused... by a miscarriage of drollery maybe?

Perhaps the caveat about  a Tulpa-projected homunculi, condensed 
out of the aether by a schizophrenic human mind no longer in 
bodily existence. should have been emphasized more. This was not 
intended to be an accurate crtical review of PKD, who often must 
be channeled as much as read  ;-)


Like many of us who have been, at one time or another, grounded in 
science - humor is not all that natural for me, and despite 
persistent efforts at improving that deficiency ... so often I end 
up having to explain later why it seemed that such-and-such was 
deemed to be so witty at the time.


In this case, the attempted-humor realtes to the issue of how an 
alien overseer i.e. Valis... might have tried to influence 
earthly affairs minimally (assuming that they are trying to adhere 
with the fishbowl imperative) by introducing, or fostering a 
special real personality - a messiah if you will; but with an 
effort more genuine than something a projected mental hologram. 
The Church of Moo should have been a giveaway as to how some 
earthly observers, if it fits into their agenda, will stretch the 
significance of events which aren't really all that coincidental 
(like Elvis demise and the publishing of a novel) and try to frame 
that near-coincidence as being deeply prophetic


Oh well, I am one of the few who believe that PKD actually 
intended a certain kind of cynical humor in situations where 
others are trying to grasp something more sinister - from what was 
indeed a rather sad and tortured life ...


Jones 

Re: [Humor] The Razor Cuts

[Grimer]

At 03:03 pm 19/06/2005 -0400, you wrote:
Gnorts, Vorts:

Here on Vortex we often cite that Epistemological Franciscan Guru, 
Ockham, as the filter of truth for theories and speculation. However, 
poor William is not always right.

Last Saturday morning, my wife’s alarm went off at 7 am. She inhibited 
it immediately and nothing was said until breakfast. Her denial of habit 
I attributed to oncoming senility-lite and her Grave’s disease. Nothing 
more was said due to my axiom that there are three people with whom you 
cannot win an argument:

1) Your boss,
2) Your wife and
3) A Police Officer

Please note that we love to sleep late on the weekend.

This morning Callie, a BW tabby, who entered our abode under false 
pretenses but adhered to the advice that she must “suck up to daddy” if 
she was to be allowed to remain, kept urging us to awaken at our normal 
working hours (possibly as punishment for our late night at my enlaus). 
Ignoring her impetuous insistence, sleep prevailed. That is, until I am 
awakened by this clicking sound not unlike a curvaceous and promiscuous 
secretary whose typing style is not unlike her supplemental income. 
(hunt ‘n pecker).

THE ALARM SOUNDS and much to my chagrin, dear Callie is caught red-pawed 
as the culprit.

Being already a half-century old, I shall never complete my penitence.



Any relation to Macavity?


Macavity's a Mystery Cat: he's called the Hidden Paw--
For he's the master criminal who can defy the Law.
He's the bafflement of Scotland Yard, the Flying Squad's despair:
For when they reach the scene of crime--Macavity's not there!

Macavity, Macavity, there's no on like Macavity,
He's broken every human law, he breaks the law of gravity.
His powers of levitation would make a fakir stare,
And when you reach the scene of crime--Macavity's not there!
You may seek him in the basement, you may look up in the air--
But I tell you once and once again, Macavity's not there!

Macavity's a ginger cat, he's very tall and thin;
You would know him if you saw him, for his eyes are sunken in.
His brow is deeply lined with thought, his head is highly doomed;
His coat is dusty from neglect, his whiskers are uncombed.
He sways his head from side to side, with movements like a snake;
And when you think he's half asleep, he's always wide awake.

Macavity, Macavity, there's no one like Macavity,
For he's a fiend in feline shape, a monster of depravity.
You may meet him in a by-street, you may see him in the square--
But when a crime's discovered, then Macavity's not there!

He's outwardly respectable. (They say he cheats at cards.)
And his footprints are not found in any file of Scotland Yard's.
And when the larder's looted, or the jewel-case is rifled,
Or when the milk is missing, or another Peke's been stifled,
Or the greenhouse glass is broken, and the trellis past repair--
Ay, there's the wonder of the thing! Macavity's not there!

And when the Foreign Office finds a Treaty's gone astray,
Or the Admiralty lose some plans and drawings by the way,
There may be a scap of paper in the hall or on the stair--
But it's useless of investigate--Macavity's not there!
And when the loss has been disclosed, the Secret Service say:
It must have been Macavity!--but he's a mile away.
You'll be sure to find him resting, or a-licking of his thumbs,
Or engaged in doing complicated long division sums.

Macavity, Macavity, there's no one like Macacity,
There never was a Cat of such deceitfulness and suavity.
He always has an alibit, or one or two to spare:
And whatever time the deed took place--MACAVITY WASN'T THERE!
And they say that all the Cats whose wicked deeds are widely known
(I might mention Mungojerrie, I might mention Griddlebone)
Are nothing more than agents for the Cat who all the time
Just controls their operations: the Napoleon of Crime! 
==

Re: The hydrogen model

[Merlyn]

--- thomas malloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 
 What is IIRC?
 
If I Recall Correctly

Also useful IMHO
In My Humble Opinion

Merlyn
Magickal Engineer and Technical Metaphysicist

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

Historical note: sonofusion ala Peron ?

[Jones Beene]

I will return, and I will be millions.
 - Maria Eva Duarte de Peron Evita

Some time ago - relating to another subject (sonofusion ?), I 
tried to throw out a little historical teaser bait, relating to 
the early lore of LENR pseudo-science - but nobody bit:


Which brings to mind an old story about Juan Perón, do you know 
the one ;-)


OK, for the benefit of those who might like a re-bait on that - 
Here is the back-story.


In1951, before the USA had even demonstated the H-bomb, the 
nattily-uniformed and mightily-bemedalled Argentine dictator, Juan 
Peron, declared to a stunned world that his country had created a 
nuclear fusion reactor !


Wow, you won't find that reactor described in many physics books, 
will you? But the story begins with something more like the Odessa 
files - and the Austrian physicist, Ronald Richter, in 1948.


Actually, it begins earlier with Hannes Alfvén born in1908 in 
Sweden. Some considered him an astrophysicist, some a power 
engineer. He won the Nobel prize but was no-Nazi, yet spent time 
in the Soviet Union before moving to America and the University of 
Southern California. Much better weather than either of his former 
choices. Alfvén considered himself an electrical power engineer 
but much of his RD was related to the mysterious astrophysical 
power source or the Swedish northern lights - now called Alfvén 
waves.


Now, back to S. America. It is no surprise that Peron nurtured 
fraternal feelings for fleeing Nazis - they had way-cool uniforms, 
and dictators love that. But not all fugitives from the Third 
Reich ended up in South America- the U.S. imported more than its 
share - a large contingent of Nazi rocket scientists during 
Operation Paperclip - but these were our Nazis and somehow that 
was OK (despite the fact that they chained captured Jews to the 
industrial machines making V-1 and V-2 parts for Hitler.


Part of the shock of the Peron fusion-annoucement was spy-vs-spy 
international politics and not related to technical issues at 
first - but to the nagging suspicion that maybe we should have 
imported more of those damn-Nazis.


War criminals like Eichmann and Josef Mengele did prefer the 
anonimity of the land of the gauchos, and thanks to Frederick 
Forsyth's famous novel  The Odessa File, this part of the 
post-war story has become a meme in the popular consciousness, 
despite factual lapses. Richter did come to Argentina with the 
German engineer Kurt Tank (how is that for a great Nazi name?) to 
build an Argentine airplane. Within weeks of arriving, Richter had 
met with Juan Perón and convinced the generalisimo to place the 
national nuclear program (Ha! there was none) in his, Richter's 
capable hands. Richter promised nuclear fusion, based on secret 
information - now said to have come from the work of Alfven 
(unbeknownst?). Until then, the only large scale nuclear reactions 
achieved by the USA had been by nuclear fission. Perón gave 
Richter millions of vaca-pesos and installed a small team of 
ex-Nazi technies on the isolated Isla Huemul.


But was fusion ever achieved there? To a man, US physicists will 
laugh and say Nada, nada. Supporters of the work of Alfven are not 
so sure. One thing is sure, and it is part of the reason that US 
physicists were so skeptical. Part of the power source for the 
Richter-Reactor was... ta-da... what can be best described as 
specialized loudspeakers. Following the enormous political 
fallout that surprised even Peron - he was forced by international 
pressures (and the promise of real US technology) to abandon the 
Richter-Reactor.


Anyway, you may have been wondering - just what is the Alfven 
wave, and can it really power nuclear fusion?


An Alfven wave is an ion-acoustic wave - like a wave travelling 
along a stretched string  and is usually quite long but can be 
simulated in a smaller  plasma reactor. Some believe it to be 
self-powering, even in nature, but others say it is powered by 
solar generated ions. Others say both - that solar deuterons are 
actually fused in the aurora itself. The resolution of that debate 
will be an interesting sequel to the Richter-Reactor.


The key to the Alfven energy anomaly is audible **sound**. If 
Horace ever tunes back in, he can probably tell us about the sound 
of aurora borealis - Yes you can actually hear an aurora in the 
far north (and download a sound file, if you want the sensory 
input).

http://www.geo.mtu.edu/weather/aurora/

Alfven-type sound/plasma waves permeate the universe. They have 
been  observed in the Sun, in the magnetosphere, as low frequency 
fluctuations in the Earth's magnetic field, and in laboratory
plasmas. Alfven waves serve as a useful diagnostic tool to probe 
plasma conditions but might also provide an extra source of 
enegy input in certain situations. In the quest for nuclear fusion 
they have already been used  with spectacular success to heat 
tokamak plasmas - to temperatures
exceeding 50 million Kelvin - yes 

Re: The hydrogen model

[George Holz]

Thomas Malloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 What is IIRC?

If I Recall Correctly

 Higher Z atoms? does that translate as heavier atoms?

Z is the usual symbol for atomic number, the number of protons
in the nucleus.

 David Moon postulated the existence of shrunken hydrogen too. He 
 believed that energy input would be required in order to achieve this 
 however.

Energy would be required to overcome the barrier but net energy
would be released in most cases when the total reaction is included.

At least I will have good company in the asylum. Perhaps 
a section  can be added to the already heavily occupied perpmo wing 
housing those who believe that the second law is incorrect.
I should qualify for either section.

George Holz
Varitronics Systems

Re: [Humor] The Razor Cuts

[Terry Blanton]

 From: Grimer 

 Any relation to Macavity?

:-)  Delightful!

No, but she's only two and well on her way!

My wife will be given radioactive iodine to kill her hyperactive thyroid 
sometime in August.  She was concerned about whether it would hurt the cat to 
be around her.  The doctor said that the byproducts were unlikely to hurt the 
cat due to her limited life span.  Relieved, she rose to leave when the doctor 
asked, Don't you want to know about your contact with your husband?

sigh

Re: OT:The will of Valis

[Stephen A. Lawrence]

Jones Beene wrote:


Stephen A. Lawrence writes,

And what's all this Elvis stuff?  The singer in the book was Clapton, 
was he not?  Or am I confused?  (A common feeling with PD's work.)



Confused... by a miscarriage of drollery maybe?


Maybe... On first reading of your post I was amused, but then on second 
reading I thought maybe the takeoff wasn't supposed to be launched all 
that far from the original, whence the question.


If you actually know anything more about the background of the events in 
Valis I'd be interested in hearing about it.  For all I know, the book 
was completely fictitious _except_ for the pink pictures sequence, but 
I somehow got the impression that there was more of Dick's life woven 
into it than that.




Perhaps the caveat about  a Tulpa-projected homunculi, condensed out 
of the aether by a schizophrenic human mind no longer in bodily 
existence. should have been emphasized more. This was not intended to 
be an accurate crtical review of PKD, who often must be channeled as 
much as read  ;-)


Like many of us who have been, at one time or another, grounded in 
science - humor is not all that natural for me, and despite 
persistent efforts at improving that deficiency ... so often I end up 
having to explain later why it seemed that such-and-such was deemed to 
be so witty at the time.


In this case, the attempted-humor realtes to the issue of how an alien 
overseer i.e. Valis... might have tried to influence earthly affairs 
minimally (assuming that they are trying to adhere with the fishbowl 
imperative) by introducing, or fostering a special real personality 
- a messiah if you will; but with an effort more genuine than 
something a projected mental hologram. The Church of Moo should have 
been a giveaway as to how some earthly observers, if it fits into 
their agenda, will stretch the significance of events which aren't 
really all that coincidental (like Elvis demise and the publishing 
of a novel) and try to frame that near-coincidence as being deeply 
prophetic


Oh well, I am one of the few who believe that PKD actually intended a 
certain kind of cynical humor in situations where others are trying to 
grasp something more sinister - from what was indeed a rather sad and 
tortured life ...


Absolutely!

But his humor had a serious side in many of his books.  Much good 
humor does, IMO.


As  a couple of trivial examples from Scanner, the woman who chased 
Coke trucks (and finally got one, as I recall), and the argument over 
how many gears a bicycle with 2 on the front and 5 on the rear has, both 
have to be treated as humorous, though they're also serious.  And that's 
in the context of a book with a deadly serious theme.  In his lighter 
books (nearly all the rest of them!) the humor's a little more frequent 
and obvious, I think.


Ah ... just to avoid making this too totally an inside conversation, 
here's a little background on the above remarks... One of the characters 
in Dick's A Scanner Darkly detested coca-cola trucks (I no longer 
recall why) and whenever she saw one while driving, she would chase it 
in her car.  Generally she'd only pursue them a short way, but one day 
she gets carried away and actually runs into one.  No fallout from the 
collision; just a strange and rather humorous interlude in an otherwise 
serious book.  The discussion of how many gears a 10-speed bike has was 
between a group of totally spaced-out stoners, who count them up and 
decide that 3 of them have gotten lost somewhere, and the folks next 
door, who try patiently to explain to them that it's 5x2 not 5+2...  To 
put it very baldly, in simplest possible terms, the book as a whole was 
about hallucinogenic drug abuse and some of the bad consequences it has 
for the abusers.


And the pink light sequence in Valis (and again in Radio Free 
Albemuth) was something that actually happened to the author:  he 
suddenly saw images appearing on the wall in front of them, as though 
they had been projected by someone or something.  The images followed 
one another, very rapidly, for what seemed to be hours.  He found this 
puzzling and invested a lot of effort in trying to determine if it had 
been real, or a hallucination, and what it all meant.





Jones

Re: Sunshine-Propelled Craft Is Set to Sail in Space

[Stephen A. Lawrence]

Terry Blanton wrote:

From: Harry Veeder 
   



 


Solar sails work on a relatively simple principle -- that beams of light
bouncing off a reflective surface will transmit a push to the surface,
driving it forward.
   



Are you sure of this?  A photon's relative mass is given by the ratio of 
momentum to light speed.  To impart momentum to the solar sail, how is this 
ratio altered?
 

The ratio isn't altered.  The sail is a mirror; when photons bounce off, 
their momentum vectors flip -- they change direction by roughly 180 
degrees.  The momentum of each photon changes from +p to -p when its 
direction is reversed.  That's a net change in momentum of -2*p, so the 
sail must pick up momemtum of +2*p to balance it.


Point the sail at the sun, and the vehicle accelerates straight outward, 
away from the sun.  Point it at an angle, and the sail will accelerate 
(more slowly!) on a diagonal.  But the sun's gravity can act similarly 
to a keel; by accelerating back along the Earth's orbit the sail can 
follow a (spiral) path that takes it closer to the sun.  So ultimately 
all directions of flight are possible for a solar sail vehicle.  But, 
you do need patience; they are not fast...

RE: Loopy field lines

[Keith Nagel]

Hi George,

You write:
- Interestingly, in the so called
- spin orbit coupled materials with gyromagnetic ratios closer
- to 1 the electron orbital magnetic contribution is in fact quite large
- but still smaller than the electron direct contribution.

The big three Fe Ni Co all have gyromagnetic ratios around
2, iron being the material we were discussing. I looked at
Bozorth to verify the above statement, and he describes a short
history of measurement of G listing Barnett in 1914 as having
experimentally discovered the value 2, then Einstein-de Haas in 1915
listed as publishing the value as 1. Needless to say, if that is
correct we have another egregious Einstein blunder to sweep under
the table (grin). Stewart and Beck (1918-1919) and all subsequent
researchers confirmed Barnetts number, of course.

Your comments about low G materials were very interesting. I'm not quite
sure what to make of values below 1. I'm tempted to say that the electron
spin in such a case would be actively cancelling the orbital rotation,
but I'm just guessing here. 

You further write:
- Electromagnetically, the current loop model predicts this behavior.
- Look at the magnetic forces between the loops. Side by
- side loops repel but on axis loops attract and increase the field
- as they move closer. Two thin disk PMs output mechanical
- energy as they move closer and provide a final touching total magnetic
- field energy almost twice the initial field energy of the two
- separate magnetic fields added together. 

The same argument could be made for electric dipoles in a dielectric as
for magnetic ones, yes? And yet we see the opposite results. Either
I'm being thick-headed here or the world is in denial about this...
I'd be delighted if we could thrash this one out.

- The interesting factor is that I find no mention in textbooks of
- the fact that it also implies that the current loop must source
- energy as the magnetic field increases and absorb it when the
- field deceases.

Hmmm... and we see the opposite, at least over the whole cycle. Energy
is stored in the inductor when we charge it up, and released
when discharged. 

- The numbers are mind blowing. IIRC
- the radiation intensity ,if Maxwell's equations applied, is
- about 10E30 watts for a single hydrogen atom. It makes one
- realize just how large an elephant we have swept under the rug
- with the QM assumption of no radiation.

Ain't that the truth! The amperian model is fine for some things,
but it's about as accurate as the bohr model of the atom...
Postulating these things away ( as is done in QM ) is just
another step backwards IMHO.

- QM assumes the huge violation of classical electromagnetic laws  away
- without any alternative physical model. Perhaps the Sakarov/ Puthoff
- ZPE energy balance orbital model can be extended to explain atomic
- stability without the magic wand assumptions of QM.

I'll chew on that one for a while. 

K.

Papers by Shanahan

[Edmund Storms]

Dr. Shanahan has now published two papers (Thermochimica Acta 428 (2005) 
207, Thermochim. Acta 382 (2002) 95) in which he argues that excess heat 
claimed to be produced by cold fusion is actually caused by errors in 
heat measurement.  In particular, he proposes that unrecognized changes 
in the calibration constant are produced by changes in where heat is 
being generated within the electrolytic cell over the duration of the 
measurement.  Because these papers may lend support to those people who 
reject the cold fusion claims, these erroneous arguments used by 
Shanahan need to be answered.


Shanahan makes two basic assumptions: that heat can be produced at 
different locations within a cell because recombination between the 
evolved D2 and O2 gases can take place at different locations, and that 
a flow calorimeter is sensitive to where heat is being produced in the 
cell.  Both of these assumptions have been shown by experimental 
observation to be false.


As anyone who has actually viewed an electrolytic cell will testify, all 
D2 is generated at the cathode and all O2 is generated at the anode, 
with both gases rising rapidly to the surface as bubbles.  Bubbles 
contain mainly only one of these gases. Consequently, recombination can 
not take place within a bubble, as Shanahan proposes.  In addition, it 
is well known that H2 (D2) and O2 gases can not react in the absence of 
a catalytic solid surface or without an energy source.  Very few bubbles 
reach the opposite electrode so that surface recombination on the 
electrode surface is also small.  The recombination process has been 
explored by a number of people and is summarized by Storms 
(www.LENR-CANR.org/StormsEacriticale.pdf ).


Before discussing the location of heat production and the sensitivity of 
the calibration constant, I would first like to provide a general 
background about calorimetry.  More details can be found in “Calorimetry 
101 for Cold Fusion” found at www.LENR-CANR.org.  Three types of 
calorimeters are normally used to measure heat production in cold fusion 
cells.  The isoperibolic type measures temperature drop across a thermal 
barrier located between the electrolyte and a constant temperature bath. 
If the cell wall is used as the barrier, errors can result if the source 
of heat changes location.  Such errors are well known and were 
acknowledged in earlier studies.  Most work is now based on use of a 
flow calorimeter, which determines heat production based on the 
temperature change of water flowing through or around the cell.  This 
design has been examined previously to determine the effect of heat 
location, as discussed by Storms 
(www.LENR-CANR.org/StormsEdescriptio.pdf).  For example, calibration 
using an internal resistor causes heat to be produced at an entirely 
different location compared to when energy is applied by electrolysis. 
Nevertheless, electric power applied to a resistor gives the same 
calibration constant as when energy is applied to a dead cathode.  In 
other words, a large change in where heat is generated within the cell 
has little or no effect on the error in measured heat.  More recently, 
Seebeck calorimeters are used, which generate a voltage proportional to 
the temperature difference across a thermal barrier that completely 
surrounds the cell.  This type is also completely immune to where heat 
is being generated within the cell, yet excess heat has been reported. 
In addition, recombination is frequently not an issue because most 
people now use a recombiner within the cell so that all D2 and O2 is 
returned to D2O within the calorimeter.  A person does not need to 
speculate, as Shanahan has done, about the effect caused by moving the 
source of heat because no such effect has been observed when using a 
flow or Seebeck calorimeter.


Shanahan also comments about an earlier paper of mine 
(www.LENR-CANR.org/Stormsexcesspowe.pdf) about which he published an 
earlier critique (Thermochim. Acta 382 (2002) 95).  In his most recent 
paper, he rejects my claim for excess energy because an error in the 
calibration constant of 2.5% would explain the claimed excess.  He does 
not acknowledge that I found only a 1.6% variation based on many 
measurements done over three months.  In addition, he has not explained 
why the calibration constant would suddenly make such a change exactly 
when applied current was changed to initiated the excess power and do 
this four times, and then fail to change at other times.  Of course, it 
is easy to reject any claim just by assuming a large enough experimental 
error, but is this a proper analysis?


Anyone who has actually used such calorimeters knows that errors can 
occur, which might be interpreted as excess heat.  Unfortunately, the 
analysis made by Shanahan is so poorly done that these errors remain 
unexplored.  In addition, it is hard not to feel embarrassed for the 
peer review process that was applied to these papers and the reputation 

Re: OT:The will of Valis

[Jones Beene]

Stephen

Ah ... just to avoid making this too totally an inside 
conversation, here's a little background on the above remarks...


Interesting...and vaguely reminiscent of another psychotic chase 
worthy of its own posting...set your SPAM filters accordingly.


Also, for those interested in good biography, even if PKD is not 
their favorite writer, Sutin's  Divine Invasions: A Life of 
Philip K. Dick is a must read

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0806512288/002-3525695-1610443?v=glance

Jones 

RE: OT:The will of Valis

[Keith Nagel]

Yes, that is a good book on PKD.

BTW Jones, you never answered Stephens question. Yes, that
was supposed to be Eric Clapton. The name used in the story
is the thinly disguised Eric Lampton. Also note that it
was well known at the time that 'Clapton is God' 

http://www.ericclaptonfaq.com/questions/When_and_where_did_the_phrase_Clapton_is_God_originate.htm

In the story, Lampton and his wife accidentally kill the
reincarnated Christ child. In real life, Erics child
tragically crawled out an open window and died.
Like most authors, Phil pinched heavily from the
world around him to tell his story and amuse his
readers.

Jones favorite PKD story is most likely, The World Jones Made.
Right??? (grin)

K. 

-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 12:37 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: OT:The will of Valis


Stephen

 Ah ... just to avoid making this too totally an inside 
 conversation, here's a little background on the above remarks...

Interesting...and vaguely reminiscent of another psychotic chase 
worthy of its own posting...set your SPAM filters accordingly.

Also, for those interested in good biography, even if PKD is not 
their favorite writer, Sutin's  Divine Invasions: A Life of 
Philip K. Dick is a must read
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0806512288/002-3525695-1610443?v=glance

Jones 

Re: Papers by Shanahan

[Jed Rothwell]

Is this a letter to Thermochim. Acta? If so, I hope they print it.

- Jed

correction/Sunshine-Propelled Craft Is Set to Sail in Space

[Harry Veeder]

Sorry, I wrote:

 In reality the wavelength (and consequently momentum) of the reflected photon
 is slightly less than the wavelength ( momentum ) of the incoming photon.

That should say slightly longer instead of slightly less!


Harry

Re: Re: OT:The will of Valis

[Terry Blanton]

 From: Stephen A. Lawrence

 As  a couple of trivial examples from Scanner, 

Scanner movie will debut in March '06:

http://www.philipkdick.com/

Re: correction/Sunshine-Propelled Craft Is Set to Sail in Space

[Terry Blanton]

 From: Harry Veeder 

  In reality the wavelength (and consequently momentum) of the reflected 
  photon
  is slightly less than the wavelength ( momentum ) of the incoming photon.
 
 That should say slightly longer instead of slightly less!

But, but, but, that means the sail should be black not reflective, right?

Re: Big CF breakthrough reported

[Jed Rothwell]

Jean de Lagarde wrote:

For more than three months since a large exchange in the beginning of 
march 2005, we have not heard about IESI. Have they been visited by 
competent people which coud give us news of this supposed fantastic 
breakthrough or does it exist non disclosure agreements that prevent them 
to talk ?


I have heard that competent people have visited, and they were favorably 
impressed, but they have not written any reports yet as far as I know. Who 
knows what to make of it? I do not know whether these people signed 
non-disclosure agreements or not. They have not disclosed anything to me, 
except that they were favorably impressed. The thing is, they wouldn't tell 
me, and I wouldn't care to listen in any case, because I have no use for 
secrets. I do not want to hear confidential, semi-confidential, or even 
slightly confidential information. If I am not free to publish every detail 
on LENR-CANR.org or here on Vortex, I do not want to know about it.


I am interested in two kinds of information:

1. Academic science. This must be fully open and transparent. If any part 
is kept secret, it isn't valid academic science.


2. Technology for which a patent has been applied for, or technology 
already in the public domain. If any part of a patent application is kept 
secret, the patent will be ruled invalid.


There are plenty of other kinds of intellectual property, such as trade 
secrets, but I personally have no use for such things, since I am trying to 
promote cold fusion and hand out accurate information about it. Telling 
readers that a secret process exists is not helpful or useful.




 Or is it dead ? We would be happy to know


It does not seem dead, but until it is proved with independent replications 
it is not alive, either. It is in limbo, along with dozens of other claims.


- Jed

Re: The hydrogen model

[thomas malloy]

George Holtz wrote;



 David Moon postulated the existence of shrunken hydrogen too. He
 believed that energy input would be required in order to achieve this
 however.


Energy would be required to overcome the barrier but net energy
would be released in most cases when the total reaction is included.


Interesting theory, and one which is in keeping with Randall Mills 
observations.




At least I will have good company in the asylum. Perhaps
a section  can be added to the already heavily occupied perpmo wing
housing those who believe that the second law is incorrect.
I should qualify for either section.



The Second Law works every time it's tried. The question is can we 
find a way to defeat, or circumvent it?

Re: Fw: Magnetic Power device

[Christopher Arnold]

Mark Goldes "speculates" about a magnetically powered unit he's "attempting" to develop. Mark speculates that the energy is coming from the ZPE. 

And Mark only needs a few more Angel Investors to really start making progress - but herefuses to mentionme telling him years ago that I ALREADY had a testable prototype that radiated energy from the plasma. He was so impressed he told me to never call him again - he must have thought I was crazy or something, but now he is saying He has discovered ZPE.

Mark has done OK for himself, after all he has collected about $7Million for the Room Temperature Superconductorswithout producing a marketable product and now he is speculating on a ZPE device that he needs even more money for. How about marketing the superconductors first? 

I also told Mark Goldes (years ago) that I believesuperconductive wire coupled with my Plasma Drivemight be a perfect match for producing evengreater ZPE effects from my Patented device. What he refused to believe, he nowdesires control of - this is why scientific progress is so damn slow.

Mark Goldeswouldmake a seamless fitinto the movie"Contact" as Dr. David Drumland, the man that kept sabotaging Jodi Fosters work and ends up taking credit forabsolutely every-ones scientific discoveries -but Iam notJodi Foster, I still say the radiating energy is what is now called ZPE and care needs to be taken not to over energizethe Plasma..

Mark, don't you remember me telling you about the ZPE and Fusion effectsbeingproduced by the device Now you have discovered ZPE and you only need a few more $Million. Whats next Mark, Dense Plasma Focus Fusion?

ChrisWhitney" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
- Original Message - From: "Noel D. Whitney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 12:37 PMSubject: Re: Magnetic Power device REf Yrs on mark Goldes,  has anyone seen or conducted test on any of these pieces of Kit? Or are we in a Stan Meyer scenario again?  Rgds from Ireland.  Noel Whitney - Quantum leap Ltd - Original Message - From: "thomas malloy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To:  Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 9:32 AM Subject: Magnetic Power device   In an interview given to PES, Mark Goldes speculates about a  magnetically powered unit he's attempting to develop. Mark speculates  that the energy is coming from the ZPE. My r!
 esponse
 is, we don't know  that.  http://pesn.com/2005/06/17/9600113_MagneticPowerInc_Pre-Production/  
		Yahoo! Sports 
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

Re: Loopy field lines

[George Holz]

Hi Keith,
You write,

 The big three Fe Ni Co all have gyromagnetic ratios around
 2, iron being the material we were discussing. I looked at
 Bozorth to verify the above statement, and he describes a short
 history of measurement of G listing Barnett in 1914 as having
 experimentally discovered the value 2, then Einstein-de Haas in 1915
 listed as publishing the value as 1. Needless to say, if that is
 correct we have another egregious Einstein blunder to sweep under
 the table (grin). Stewart and Beck (1918-1919) and all subsequent
 researchers confirmed Barnetts number, of course.

I also find Bozorth very useful. Perhaps due to the minimal emphasis
on QM. Well, it would only be an arithmetic mistake for Einstein.
I'm more concerned by Einstein's support for the highly
non physical concept of the photon. Mills gets much criticism
for extending the electron to atomic dimensions. Optical photons extend
for distances that simply demand a wave model. RF photons are truly
ridiculous.
Please notice the complete absence of a physical model for either
emission or absorption of photons by atoms.

 The same argument could be made for electric dipoles in a dielectric as
 for magnetic ones, yes? And yet we see the opposite results. Either
 I'm being thick-headed here or the world is in denial about this...
 I'd be delighted if we could thrash this one out.

I don't understand what factor you find is opposite in ferroelectrics.

 Hmmm... and we see the opposite, at least over the whole cycle. Energy
 is stored in the inductor when we charge it up, and released
 when discharged.

Right, the individual dipoles are doing the opposite of the overall
inductor energy. The returned energy comes from thermal energy
destroying the ordering of the dipoles. I refer to the input and output
energy of a ferromagnetic inductor as the available energy. The
actual field energy, the energy from the dipole alignment and found
in the spaces between the dipoles is about mu times as great as the
available energy. It is interesting how the standard treatment
pretty much ignores the huge energy present between the dipoles and
perhaps reasonably concentrates on the available energy which is
actually lower at a  given flux density in higher mu materials. Perhaps
this is the source the apparent contardictory behavior you find in the
energetics of ferromagnetic materials.

 - QM assumes the huge violation of classical electromagnetic laws  away
 - without any alternative physical model. Perhaps the Sakarov/ Puthoff
 - ZPE energy balance orbital model can be extended to explain atomic
 - stability without the magic wand assumptions of QM.

 I'll chew on that one for a while.

Let me know what you think. I would be willing to discuss my
partly baked ideas further offline.

George Holz
Varitronics Systems

Re: Chris Arnold

[Mark Goldes]

The world energy crisis is so urgent we welcome any system that can make a 
contribution.


Our small firm has chosen to concentrate on ambient temperature 
Ultraconductors and specific solid-state and rotary devices.


His post illustrates precisely why Chris is still looking for financing.

Mark


From: Christopher Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Fw: Magnetic Power device
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:34:28 -0700 (PDT)

Mark Goldes speculates about a magnetically powered unit he's 
attempting to develop. Mark speculates that the energy is coming from the 
ZPE.


And Mark only needs a few more Angel Investors to really start making 
progress - but he refuses to mention me telling him years ago that I 
ALREADY had a testable prototype that radiated energy from the plasma. He 
was so impressed he told me to never call him again - he must have thought 
I was crazy or something, but now he is saying He has discovered ZPE.


Mark has done OK for himself, after all he has collected about $7Million 
for the Room Temperature Superconductors without producing a marketable 
product and now he is speculating on a ZPE device that he needs even more 
money for. How about marketing the  superconductors first?


I also told Mark Goldes (years ago) that I believe superconductive wire 
coupled with my Plasma Drive might be a perfect match for producing even 
greater ZPE effects from my Patented device. What he refused to believe, he 
now desires control of - this is why scientific progress is so damn slow.


Mark Goldes would make a seamless fit into the movie Contact as Dr. David 
Drumland, the man that kept sabotaging Jodi Fosters work and ends up taking 
credit for absolutely every-ones scientific discoveries - but I am not Jodi 
Foster, I still say the radiating energy is what is now called ZPE and care 
needs to be taken not to over energize the Plasma..


Mark, don't you remember me telling you about the ZPE and Fusion effects 
being produced by the device Now you have discovered ZPE and you only 
need a few more $Million. Whats next Mark, Dense Plasma Focus Fusion?


Chris




Whitney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

- Original Message -
From: Noel D. Whitney
To:
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: Magnetic Power device


 REf Yrs on mark Goldes,

 has anyone seen or conducted test on any of these pieces of Kit?
 Or are we in a Stan Meyer scenario again?

 Rgds from Ireland.

 Noel Whitney - Quantum leap Ltd
 - Original Message -
From: thomas malloy
 To:
 Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 9:32 AM
 Subject: Magnetic Power device


 In an interview given to PES, Mark Goldes speculates about a
 magnetically powered unit he's attempting to develop. Mark speculates
 that the energy is coming from the ZPE. My response is, we don't know
 that.
 http://pesn.com/2005/06/17/9600113_MagneticPowerInc_Pre-Production/















-
Yahoo! Sports
 Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up

Re: correction/Sunshine-Propelled Craft Is Set to Sail in Space

[Stephen A. Lawrence]

Terry Blanton wrote:

From: Harry Veeder 
   



 


In reality the wavelength (and consequently momentum) of the reflected photon
is slightly less than the wavelength ( momentum ) of the incoming photon.
 


That should say slightly longer instead of slightly less!
   



But, but, but, that means the sail should be black not reflective, right?
 

No.  If it's reflective, it absorbs all the incoming momentum.  For each 
photon with momentum p, a black sail absorbs momentum of p.


But if it bounces the photons off, a reflective sail picks up momentum 
of (almost!) 2*p from each photon.  So it absorbs _twice_ the incoming 
momentum.  (Cool, huh? COP=2, maybe?)  Until the sail is moving at 
appreciable velocity away from the sun, the wavelength shift of the 
reflected photon is negligible, and in fact even after it's moving 
quickly it still gets twice the bang from each photon if it reflects 
them rather than absorbing them.


You can view this as ordinary mechanics, and treat the photons like 
little billiard balls.  The same thing happens with a ball:  If it 
bounces off something, it transfers twice the momentum as it does if it 
sticks.  In the case of a ball, it's easy to understand, though.  For 
consider a rubber ball hitting a wall:


The ball rushes at a wall.  It touches the wall, but of course it 
doesn't stop _instantly_.


Instead, the ball compresses, which takes finite time; as it's 
compressing, the surface of the ball touching the wall pushes on the wall.


Then, IF it bounces off, it expands again, and pushes itself away; as 
it's expanding, it's still pushing on the wall.


IF, instead, the ball squishes and doesn't bounce back, but just sticks 
to the wall in a little flattened pancake, then the second half of the 
interaction -- the push off part -- doesn't happen, and the wall 
doesn't gain the extra impulse.  So, hitting and sticking only pushes on 
the wall for about half the time hitting and bouncing off pushes on it 
for, and so it transfers about half the momentum.


And one other thing:  If it's a mirror, you can angle it in order to 
steer the ship.  The thrust is always perpendicular to the mirror's 
surface.  If it's plain black, you can't do that -- the thrust is always 
parallel to the paths of the incoming photons.




 

Re: correction/Sunshine-Propelled Craft Is Set to Sail in Space

[Stephen A. Lawrence]

Stephen A. Lawrence wrote:




Terry Blanton wrote:

From: Harry Veeder   



 

In reality the wavelength (and consequently momentum) of the 
reflected photon
is slightly less than the wavelength ( momentum ) of the incoming 
photon.



That should say slightly longer instead of slightly less!
  



But, but, but, that means the sail should be black not reflective, 
right?
 


No.  If it's reflective, it absorbs all the incoming momentum.


OOPS I meant If it's black, it absorbs all the incoming momentum.

(And energy, too, of course.)


For each photon with momentum p, a black sail absorbs momentum of p.

But if it bounces the photons off, a reflective sail picks up momentum 
of (almost!) 2*p from each photon.  So it absorbs _twice_ the incoming 
momentum.

Re: correction/Sunshine-Propelled Craft Is Set to Sail in Space

[Terry Blanton]

 From: Stephen A. Lawrence

 But if it bounces the photons off, a reflective sail picks up momentum 
 of (almost!) 2*p from each photon. 

I understand your argument; but, I trust you won't mind if I remain septical?  
;-)

We shall soon learn whether solar sails actually work!  Launch tomorrow.

RE: [Humor] The Razor Cuts

[John Steck]

A family goes to a nearby beach for a nice afternoon of surf and sand.  When
they got to the beach there was a warning posted about strong currents that
day.  The parents decided it was a beach day for their young children.  Dad
headed into the water for a quick swim which caused the oldest to protest
and ask mom why dad could go into the water and not them.  Mom's reply was
that their father had life insurance.

8^)
 

-Original Message-
From: Terry Blanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 11:12 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Humor] The Razor Cuts


 From: Grimer

 Any relation to Macavity?

:-)  Delightful!

No, but she's only two and well on her way!

My wife will be given radioactive iodine to kill her hyperactive thyroid
sometime in August.  She was concerned about whether it would hurt the cat
to be around her.  The doctor said that the byproducts were unlikely to hurt
the cat due to her limited life span.  Relieved, she rose to leave when the
doctor asked, Don't you want to know about your contact with your husband?

sigh

Re: Chris Arnold

[Christopher Arnold]

Mark,

I agree - unlike you and others, I built functional prototypesFIRST with my own money to provide proof of this revolutionary Plasma technology.I never said I only need another $3 Million to develop something I am "speculating" over. 

The problem with funding was twofold, first nobody believed I could possibly be telling the truth about any ofthe test results and once a few finally did believe me - they either wanted in cheap or demanded controlling interest of this most versatile and valuable discovery. The game is not over yet Goldes, I have only been searching for an honest investor for seven years nowand I know theremust be one somewhere.

Look closely at Wilf Ouellette of Syngas Energyin Canada at http://fairchildinternational.com.Wilf "was" going to invest until he had all the information he required - and now he is attempting to sell my cloned Plasma Reactor to Fairchild International. Wouldn't it have been wonderful "IF" my Plasma Gasification system could have gotten started right here in the USA for $1 Million - instead of in Canada where Wilf is trying to sell it for $10 Million? Fairchild International is valued at $30 Million and their sole focus is based on my Plasma Gasification proposal, as twice presented to the DOE.

Mark, you finally believe ZPE is possible and now you only need funding to explore it - wonderful,now back to my valid point which. Where are the superconductors that investors have already paid you to develop, or are you nowtoo busy studying a "Revolutionary" ZPE idea to bother finishing the last project?

Chris Arnold

Mark Goldes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The world energy crisis is so urgent we welcome any system that can make a contribution.Our small firm has chosen to concentrate on ambient temperature Ultraconductors and specific solid-state and rotary devices.His post illustrates precisely why Chris is still looking for financing.MarkFrom: Christopher Arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.comTo: vortex-l@eskimo.comSubject: Re: Fw: Magnetic Power deviceDate: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:34:28 -0700 (PDT)Mark Goldes "speculates" about a magnetically powered unit he's "attempting" to develop. Mark speculates that the energy is coming from the ZPE.And Mark only needs a few more Angel Investors to really start making progress - but he refuses to mention me telling him years ago that I
 ALREADY had a testable prototype that radiated energy from the plasma. He was so impressed he told me to never call him again - he must have thought I was crazy or something, but now he is saying He has discovered ZPE.Mark has done OK for himself, after all he has collected about $7Million for the Room Temperature Superconductors without producing a marketable product and now he is speculating on a ZPE device that he needs even more money for. How about marketing the superconductors first?I also told Mark Goldes (years ago) that I believe superconductive wire coupled with my Plasma Drive might be a perfect match for producing even greater ZPE effects from my Patented device. What he refused to believe, he now desires control of - this is why scientific progress is so damn slow.Mark Goldes would make a seamless fit into the movie "Contact" as Dr. David
 Drumland, the man that kept sabotaging Jodi Fosters work and ends up taking credit for absolutely every-ones scientific discoveries - but I am not Jodi Foster, I still say the radiating energy is what is now called ZPE and care needs to be taken not to over energize the Plasma..Mark, don't you remember me telling you about the ZPE and Fusion effects being produced by the device Now you have discovered ZPE and you only need a few more $Million. Whats next Mark, Dense Plasma Focus Fusion?ChrisWhitney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:- Original Message -From: "Noel D. Whitney"To:Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 12:37 PMSubject: Re: Magnetic Power device  REf Yrs on mark Goldes,   has anyone seen or conducted test on any of these pieces of Kit?  Or are !
 we in a
 Stan Meyer scenario again?   Rgds from Ireland.   Noel Whitney - Quantum leap Ltd  - Original Message - From: "thomas malloy"  To:  Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 9:32 AM  Subject: Magnetic Power deviceIn an interview given to PES, Mark Goldes speculates about a  magnetically powered unit he's attempting to develop. Mark speculates  that the energy is coming from the ZPE. My response is, we don't know  that.  http://pesn.com/2005/06/17/9600113_MagneticPowerInc_Pre-Production/-Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign
 up__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: Fw: Magnetic Power device

[Christopher Arnold]

Mark,

I agree - unlike you and others, I built functional prototypesFIRST with my own money to provide proof of this revolutionary Plasma technology.I never said I only need another $3 Million to develop something I am "speculating" over. 

The problem with funding was twofold, first nobody believed I could possibly be telling the truth about any ofthe test results and once a few finally did believe me - they either wanted in cheap or demanded controlling interest of this most versatile and valuable discovery. The game is not over yet Goldes, I have only been searching for an honest investor for seven years nowand I know theremust be one somewhere.

Look closely at Wilf Ouellette of Syngas Energyin Canada at http://fairchildinternational.com.Wilf "was" going to invest until he had all the information he required - and now he is attempting to sell my cloned Plasma Reactor to Fairchild International. Wouldn't it have been wonderful "IF" my Plasma Gasification system could have gotten started right here in the USA for $1 Million - instead of in Canada where Wilf is trying to sell it for $10 Million? Fairchild International is valued at $30 Million and their sole focus is based on my Plasma Gasification proposal, as twice presented to the DOE.

Mark, you finally believe ZPE is possible and now you only need funding to explore it - wonderful,now back to my valid point which. Where are the superconductors that investors have already paid you to develop, or are you nowtoo busy studying a "Revolutionary" ZPE idea to bother finishing the last project?

Chris Arnold

Mark Goldes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The world energy crisis is so urgent we welcome any system that can make a contribution.Our small firm has chosen to concentrate on ambient temperature Ultraconductors and specific solid-state and rotary devices.His post illustrates precisely why Chris is still looking for financing.MarkFrom: Christopher Arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.comTo: vortex-l@eskimo.comSubject: Re: Fw: Magnetic Power deviceDate: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:34:28 -0700 (PDT)Mark Goldes "speculates" about a magnetically powered unit he's "attempting" to develop. Mark speculates that the energy is coming from the ZPE.And Mark only needs a few more Angel Investors to really start making progress - but he refuses to mention me telling him years ago that I
 ALREADY had a testable prototype that radiated energy from the plasma. He was so impressed he told me to never call him again - he must have thought I was crazy or something, but now he is saying He has discovered ZPE.Mark has done OK for himself, after all he has collected about $7Million for the Room Temperature Superconductors without producing a marketable product and now he is speculating on a ZPE device that he needs even more money for. How about marketing the superconductors first?I also told Mark Goldes (years ago) that I believe superconductive wire coupled with my Plasma Drive might be a perfect match for producing even greater ZPE effects from my Patented device. What he refused to believe, he now desires control of - this is why scientific progress is so damn slow.Mark Goldes would make a seamless fit into the movie "Contact" as Dr. David
 Drumland, the man that kept sabotaging Jodi Fosters work and ends up taking credit for absolutely every-ones scientific discoveries - but I am not Jodi Foster, I still say the radiating energy is what is now called ZPE and care needs to be taken not to over energize the Plasma..Mark, don't you remember me telling you about the ZPE and Fusion effects being produced by the device Now you have discovered ZPE and you only need a few more $Million. Whats next Mark, Dense Plasma Focus Fusion?ChrisWhitney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:- Original Message -From: "Noel D. Whitney"To:Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 12:37 PMSubject: Re: Magnetic Power device  REf Yrs on mark Goldes,   has anyone seen or conducted test on any of these pieces of Kit?  Or are !
 we in a
 Stan Meyer scenario again?   Rgds from Ireland.   Noel Whitney - Quantum leap Ltd  - Original Message - From: "thomas malloy"  To:  Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 9:32 AM  Subject: Magnetic Power deviceIn an interview given to PES, Mark Goldes speculates about a  magnetically powered unit he's attempting to develop. Mark speculates  that the energy is coming from the ZPE. My response is, we don't know  that.  http://pesn.com/2005/06/17/9600113_MagneticPowerInc_Pre-Production/Christopher Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:








Mark Goldes "speculates" about a magnetically powered unit he's "attempting" to develop. Mark speculates that the energy is coming from the ZPE. 

And Mark only needs a few more Angel Investors to really start making progress - but herefuses to mentionme telling him years ago that I ALREADY had a testable prototype that radiated energy from the plasma. He was so impressed he told me to never call him again - he must have thought I was 

Re: Papers by Shanahan

[Mike Carrell]

Ed wrote:
snip
  Papers that attempt
 to show that cold fusion is not real should be evaluated using the same
 standards skeptics want applied to papers that support such claims.

This is the same position I have taken with respect ot critics of BLP's
experimental work. Such criticism should be subject to the same scrutiny
that is directed at BLP's experiments. I have seen gross, sloppy,
ill-considered, unsupportable comments by authorities.

Mike Carrell

Re: Big CF breakthrough reported

[John Coviello]

Professor Peter Hagelstein mentioned the iESiusa 
development at the MIT Cold Fusion colloquium last month. He said a group 
associated with iESiusa had secured a South Korean patent for a cold fusion 
technology and that he expected commercial developments in the near 
future. iESiusa also put out a press release in recent weeks stating that 
their co-founder andChief Technology Officer had movedto their 
offices in Canadato help with the commercialization of their 
energytechnology.

It remains to be seen if iESiusa is just blowing 
hot air or has something real. Being from Las Vegas certainly gives me 
pause about iESiusa. Lots of sharks in Vegas. I am reserving 
judgment on iESiusa until they demonstrate something significant.

iESiusa definitely deserves a field trip by cold 
fusion advocates to see if they seem legit.