Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Jeff Berkowitz]

Got from another LENR researcher:

"There are several reported values for the enthalpy of formation of  nickel
hydride with -8.8 kJ/mol being the lowest and -16.3 kJ/mol being the
highest at standard temperature and pressure."

He went on to show that given a wire containing 0.3g of Ni, enthalpy could
account for less than 10 watts for 10 seconds. I took away that no matter
how you torture the numbers, the resulting values are going to be orders of
magnitude too small to account for Celani-type results.

I have a spreadsheet with the calculations. If anyone wants to see it I'll
go back to him and ask him about sharing.

Jeff



On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:44 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 
wrote:

> At 09:17 PM 12/12/2012, Mark Gibbs wrote:
>
>> Something I haven't seen any discussion about is the amount of energy
>> required to load materials with hydrogen to be used in these various
>> LENR/CF devices. If that energy is taken into account, are the claims of
>> excess energy from the operation of the devices still valid?
>>
>> [mg]
>>
>
> This has been studied in great detail. However, there is a bit of a
> misunderstanding here. Loading of hydrogen or deuterium into palladium, for
> example, is exothermic. I'm not so sure about nickel.
>
> But, certainly in the study of the Fleischmann-Pons Heat Effect, the study
> has taken into account all the known chemistry. Further, many different
> types of controls have been used. And for frosting on the cake, again with
> the FPHE, helium has been measured and shown to be correlated with the
> excess energy. The value of the ratio is the value expected from the fusion
> of deuterium to helium, and this has been confirmed by a dozen research
> groups.
>
> Above I mention that the loading of deuterium into palladium is
> exothermic. So "heat after death" is particularly interesting, where cells
> develop very substantial anomalous heat when the electrolytic current,
> which is used to maintain high loading, is turned *off*. A lot of heat can
> appear, lasting for days, sometimes. At that point, the deuterium will
> start to deload, it's like evaporation, and like evaporation, this will
> *cool* the cathode.
>
> The skeptical answer to this has been the "cigarette lighter effect,"
> i.e., a claim that the deloading deuterium is combusting. But there isn't
> enough oxygen there for that. This would quickly extinguish itself, if it
> were happening.
>
> Look, cold fusion was discovered by expert chemists. They actually did,
> Mark, know what they were talking about. Pons and Fleischmann were not
> physicists and they had no experience measuring neutrons, but they thought
> they could trust a neutron meter. No. So they ended up with egg on their
> faces from making a claim about neutron radiation that any expert
> physicists, experienced with measuring neutrons, would not have made.
>
> But Fleischmann was the world's foremost experts on electrochemistry, and
> the calorimetry they used was about the best ever done. They were measuring
> heat to the milliwatt. Their work has been confirmed with many different
> approaches, and imagining that such an obvious error as forgetting to allow
> for whatever went into the cell would be made by so many experts -- cold
> fusion researchers are *mostly* expert chemists -- is rather naive.
>
> Something that is overlooked is that the FPHE is set up by loading
> palladium with deuterium. That is an energy-producing process, but
> maintaining the electrolysis for a long time does consume energy. That
> energy ends up as the potential energy of separated hydrogen/deuterium and
> oxygen. If that's allowed to escape, and if it were not accounted for, it
> would be negative XP. Open cells, like those of Pons and Fleischmann, are
> pretty complex to analyze, partly because of this. SRI International, which
> was hired by the Electric Power Research Institute in 1989 to research cold
> fusion, built their own calorimeter, and it was not as sensitive as the
> work done by P&F, but it was basically bulletproof, flow calorimetry,
> running at constant temperature, not vulernable to calibration problems (on
> the other hand, P&F calibrated their calorimetry with a resistor pulse
> every day). SRI, and many researchers, use a recombiner in the cell, which
> essentially burns the generated gas in the cell, recovering that energy, so
> there is no need to compensate for it. There does need to be an accounting
> for orphaned oxygen, but, again, that is a negative contribution to
> anomalous power. It represents unrecombined gas that has stored up so much
> energy.
>
> People have gone over the calorimetry in this work with a fine-tooth comb.
> Minor errors have been claimed or identified, but the basic cold fusion
> calorimetry work stands, and if you can figure out a way that helium just
> happens to match, with the FPHE, heat from the calorimetry, other than
> having a common cause, well, you have a much better imagination than I. It
> doesn't merely co

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Jeff Berkowitz]

I looked at the voltage, current, and R/R0 values over various periods and
they all look completely flat to me. I don't see any evidence of erratic
power supply behavior. I'm not so sure about the correlation with T_ambient
either. If you zoom to the 14:00 - 14:50 period the ambient temp drops
slightly while the P_Xs rises for many minutes. There are other periods
like this too.

Jeff



On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:00 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> I wrote:
>
> Re almost hourly fluctuations in T_Ambient -- the HVAC system kicking in
>> periodically, maybe?
>>
>
> Also, do any of the electronics folks here know what the effect might be
> on the instrumentation providing us with a measure for P_in if the external
> power supply were erratic?
>
> Eric
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The Inteligentry/Plasmerg?PTP Licensing saga continues

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

Wow! Hahn  Certainly has major sores on his face and head. I don't see how he 
would get those from a few smoke detectors, Unless he extracted the americium 
and was really messing with it. Skin lesions can be a symptom of acute 
berylliosis. Maybe he was trying to make neutrons in a big way and was working 
with beryllium.

Stealing smoke detectors would indicate he was desperate. You can buy them for 
about six dollars each. 

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Eric Walker]

I wrote:

Re almost hourly fluctuations in T_Ambient -- the HVAC system kicking in
> periodically, maybe?
>

Also, do any of the electronics folks here know what the effect might be on
the instrumentation providing us with a measure for P_in if the external
power supply were erratic?

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Eric Walker]

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Craig  wrote:

 to view back 4 hours. Then I selected only P_Xs Low. Notice that the
> excess power is oscillating between 4 watts and 8 watts, in a very precise
> rhythm, with each wave appearing to have the same shape, and with each wave
> lasting about an hour. I also see that the wave appears to be tapering with
> the lows becoming higher and the heights become lower. There also seems to
> be a correlation with T_Ambient, but why?
>

Re almost hourly fluctuations in T_Ambient -- the HVAC system kicking in
periodically, maybe?

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

At 09:17 PM 12/12/2012, Mark Gibbs wrote:
Something I haven't seen any discussion about is the amount of 
energy required to load materials with hydrogen to be used in these 
various LENR/CF devices. If that energy is taken into account, are 
the claims of excess energy from the operation of the devices still valid?


[mg]


This has been studied in great detail. However, there is a bit of a 
misunderstanding here. Loading of hydrogen or deuterium into 
palladium, for example, is exothermic. I'm not so sure about nickel.


But, certainly in the study of the Fleischmann-Pons Heat Effect, the 
study has taken into account all the known chemistry. Further, many 
different types of controls have been used. And for frosting on the 
cake, again with the FPHE, helium has been measured and shown to be 
correlated with the excess energy. The value of the ratio is the 
value expected from the fusion of deuterium to helium, and this has 
been confirmed by a dozen research groups.


Above I mention that the loading of deuterium into palladium is 
exothermic. So "heat after death" is particularly interesting, where 
cells develop very substantial anomalous heat when the electrolytic 
current, which is used to maintain high loading, is turned *off*. A 
lot of heat can appear, lasting for days, sometimes. At that point, 
the deuterium will start to deload, it's like evaporation, and like 
evaporation, this will *cool* the cathode.


The skeptical answer to this has been the "cigarette lighter effect," 
i.e., a claim that the deloading deuterium is combusting. But there 
isn't enough oxygen there for that. This would quickly extinguish 
itself, if it were happening.


Look, cold fusion was discovered by expert chemists. They actually 
did, Mark, know what they were talking about. Pons and Fleischmann 
were not physicists and they had no experience measuring neutrons, 
but they thought they could trust a neutron meter. No. So they ended 
up with egg on their faces from making a claim about neutron 
radiation that any expert physicists, experienced with measuring 
neutrons, would not have made.


But Fleischmann was the world's foremost experts on electrochemistry, 
and the calorimetry they used was about the best ever done. They were 
measuring heat to the milliwatt. Their work has been confirmed with 
many different approaches, and imagining that such an obvious error 
as forgetting to allow for whatever went into the cell would be made 
by so many experts -- cold fusion researchers are *mostly* expert 
chemists -- is rather naive.


Something that is overlooked is that the FPHE is set up by loading 
palladium with deuterium. That is an energy-producing process, but 
maintaining the electrolysis for a long time does consume energy. 
That energy ends up as the potential energy of separated 
hydrogen/deuterium and oxygen. If that's allowed to escape, and if it 
were not accounted for, it would be negative XP. Open cells, like 
those of Pons and Fleischmann, are pretty complex to analyze, partly 
because of this. SRI International, which was hired by the Electric 
Power Research Institute in 1989 to research cold fusion, built their 
own calorimeter, and it was not as sensitive as the work done by P&F, 
but it was basically bulletproof, flow calorimetry, running at 
constant temperature, not vulernable to calibration problems (on the 
other hand, P&F calibrated their calorimetry with a resistor pulse 
every day). SRI, and many researchers, use a recombiner in the cell, 
which essentially burns the generated gas in the cell, recovering 
that energy, so there is no need to compensate for it. There does 
need to be an accounting for orphaned oxygen, but, again, that is a 
negative contribution to anomalous power. It represents unrecombined 
gas that has stored up so much energy.


People have gone over the calorimetry in this work with a fine-tooth 
comb. Minor errors have been claimed or identified, but the basic 
cold fusion calorimetry work stands, and if you can figure out a way 
that helium just happens to match, with the FPHE, heat from the 
calorimetry, other than having a common cause, well, you have a much 
better imagination than I. It doesn't merely correlate, it correlates 
at the fusion value. That would ordinarily be considered totally 
conclusive. Skeptics have independently challenged the calorimetry 
and, as well, the helium measurements, claiming that it might be 
leakage, but what I've seen is that the skeptics ignore the 
correlation, which actually acts to confirm both the heat and helium 
measurements, at least in round outlines.


Mark, if you want to know the science here, read Storms, "Status of 
cold fusion (2010)" in Naturwissenschaften. There is a preprint on 
lenr-canr.org. That's a peer-reviewed review of the field in a 
mainstream journal, established in 1913, now owned by Springer-Verlag 
and operated as their "flagship multidisciplinary journal." That's 
the state of the science. The extreme sk

[Vo]:Dual channel scopings of primary/secondaries on the 666 machine

[Harvey Norris]

This one gives an argument of a brief overunity period in the cycle;
Primary field collapse/ secondary remains at 150 volts
http://www.flickr.com/photos/harvich/8268880630/
All three of the three phase cycles have induced voltages superimposed upon 
them from the center element in each mutual inductance stacking. Lenz law 
normally works at 90 degrees, but here the induced voltages come from a reverse 
wired phase that exhibits lenz law effects from a source only 60 degrees out of 
phase. That extra source of emf arrives ahead in time of the actual phase 
rotation, and cycle after cycle it keeps arriving more and more ahead of the 
phase rotation until it completely opposes the source voltage. Ordinarily this 
only causes a periodic cyclic voltage effect on the phase itself. However when 
a (tuned) high induction coil is elevated above a polar area the vibration of 
the source can be transferred fully to the secondary so as to cause the 
rotating counter emf to fully oppose the source emf at a point in the entire 
cycle. The momentary appearance of secondary energy having no primary source is 
a result of this process.
Start of scoping waveform sweep @ 10ms/div
Problems evolve in showing the entire waveform in one screen shot because an 
extremely slow sweep rate used to see the longer cyclic activity. The effects 
would be a heterodyning of ~484hz and source frequency 465 hz.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/harvich/8267785017/
Shape of primary expansion and collapse
http://www.flickr.com/photos/harvich/8267830049/
HAARP style ELF effect? Both of these extra signals seen near the ending of 
scope sweep are close to the resonant frequency of the earth, and in line with 
Fran De Aquinos mention of HAARP's heterodyne method to create ionospheric ELF 
@ 2.5 hz by interference pattern of two source radio waves.
So here a much lower frequency signal is the outcome of mixing the 465 and 484 
hz as mentioned previously.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/harvich/8268886376/

HDN

Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances 
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/

Re: [Vo]:The Inteligentry/Plasmerg?PTP Licensing saga continues

[Axil Axil]

With Regards to Abd ul-Rahman Lomax comment on pre-ionization…

The Papp reaction is hard to get a handle on because Papp produced two
patents with multiple “Preferred Embodiments.”


Having stated this declaimer up front, as far as I can tell at this
juncture, Papp used alpha particle emitting radioactive isotopes to produce
"accelerated" alpha emissions when directly exposed to a strong spark
discharge.

Papp states that this nuclear based sub-reaction generates x-rays that
produce the pre-ionization. Note in the Papp patent: The cathode and anode
carry the radioactive isotopes.

>From the  US Patent # 4,428,193 (January 31, 1984)

“the gating signal supplied from distributor 135 to unit 121 is also
supplied to relay 97A. The current from switching unit 121 and from
oscillator 95 also is supplied to the anode and the cathode. It is
calculated that this causes radioactive rays (x-rays) to flow between the
anode and the cathode, thereby further exciting the gaseous mixture.”


As far as I know, this is on the fringe of nuclear science and in fact may
not be valid; a science fantasy that Papp invented.


Even if this unorthodox use of alpha emission were valid, there are better
ways to pre-ionize the spark channel that has been devised since the 80’s.
This technique is commonly used in plasmoid generators and nuclear space
ion thrusters.


This is done by producing x-ray and UV-ray photons, and high energy
electrons by simply applying a high voltage pre- spark discharge to
condition the primary spark channel to ionize the gas in the small gas
filled space between the electrodes.


As a practical matter, a commercial Papp engine cannot use large amounts of
radio-active isotopes to support the Papp this type of nuclear reaction.
There is a 4 ounce limit on possession of Th232 imposed by the Nuclear
Regulatory Commission (NRC) to thwart the construction of the U233 bomb.


Yes, it would be interesting to experimentally verify that exposing alpha
emitters to a spark discharge will produce gas ionizing X-Rays, but it does
not further the development of the Papp engine under the current nuclear
regulatory environment.

 By the way, check out David Hahn as an object lesion who deal in
radioactive sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hahn
“On August 1, 2007, Hahn was arrested in Clinton Township, Michigan for
larceny, in relation to a matter involving several smoke detectors,
allegedly removed from the halls of his apartment building. In his mug
shot, his face is covered with sores which investigators claim are possibly
from exposure to radioactive materials. During a Circuit Court hearing,
Hahn pleaded guilty to attempted larceny of a building. The court’s online
docket said prosecutors recommended that he be sentenced to time served and
enter an inpatient treatment facility. Under terms of the plea, the
original charge of larceny of a building would be dismissed at sentencing,
scheduled for October 4. He was sentenced to 90 days in jail for attempted
larceny. Court records stated that his sentence would be delayed by six
months while Hahn underwent medical treatment."

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSuZYM7V4NGRdEhPgnJ63clDreYGForfLOAX6tyBBhE3q91L8Ml

Cheers:Axil



On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 6:33 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 
wrote:

> At 04:21 PM 12/12/2012, Axil Axil wrote:
>
>  The reason why Russ is using so much spark power (500 joules ) is because
>> he is following the system that Bob Rohner built which does  NOT use
>> pre-ionization.
>>
>>
>>
> Axil, I'm not particularly interested in why an experimenter did
> something, but in what they did and what can be observed to have resulted.
> There is an obvious question here: does this Popper produce anomalous
> energy? Has *any* Popper (from whomever, following the Papp engine ideas)
> ever produced energy? There are reports of Papp engines long ago running
> continuously and generating substantial power. Has anything like this been
> confirmed, recently?
>
> If there is no single-cycle XP, we cannot expect it to appear in
> multiple-cycle engines. That's the craziness I was pointing to, regarding
> the "licensees" believing they were just on the verge of success. Yeah, *if
> there are clear, confirmed, single-cycle demonstrations*, then the rush
> would be legitimately on to develop an engine with it. What's bizarre is
> that rush *without* the simple demonstration. Building an engine is
> complicated, and there will be many obstacles and thus many excuses for
> failure. But a simple demonstration?
>
> If a simple demonstration cannot be constructed, there is no basis at all
> to conclude that the necessary technology is understood enough to create an
> engine.
>
> There is some phenomenon here of reaction to skepticism. Skeptics demand
> running practical devices to believe in the effect, so people rush out to
> try to create them. Bad Idea. A real skeptic will be reasonably satisfied
> with a conclusive demonstration, regardless 

Re: [Vo]:OT (Holiday Spirit): Christmas Flash Mob... or Group Mind occasionally waking up?

[mixent]

In reply to  Abd ul-Rahman Lomax's message of Wed, 12 Dec 2012 17:50:54 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
>Great minds think alike, could be the saying, but, of course, this is 
>just the ordinary human mind! We can "think alike," in unexpected 
>ways. My own theory is that the intense visual concentration that 
>accompanies this exercise, people are sitting face-to-face, watching 
>each other, leads to an "entrainment" of the two mental processes, 
>through observation of much more than what is said. The movements of 
>eyes, the fine-muscle movements of the face, lead to something that 
>I'd call "presence." It's not "individual," it is collective.

...in the case of humans, I think telepathy is actually real (and the Schumann
resonance is the medium).

It may also be real for birds, but I don't think it's necessary to explain flock
behaviour.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:A sublime day?

[Daniel Rocha]

What about an interview with Witch Doctor again? Next time, you can select
some questions from vortex and ask him.


2012/12/13 OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson 

> Jed sed:
>
> ** **
>
> >> Today 12/12/12 was an appropriate day for the announcement
>
> >> of a Celani replication, no?
>
> ** **
>
> > I love the timing! I think the experiment kicked off at 12:12:12
>
> > in the afternoon.
>
> >** **
>
> > I hope we don't find it only works at specific dates and times
>
> > mystically correlated with the Mayan calendar. I would hate to
>
> > learn that cold fusion only works when we make an appropriate
>
> > human sacrifice. However, in that event, I have a long list of
>
> > people I think we should start with.
>
> ** **
>
> Now, now, Mr. Rothwell, you are being very naughty.
>
> ** **
>
> Regarding the world's obsessive need to schedule specific dates for the
> manifestation of mystical experiences, I personally find it far more
> interesting when one has absolutely no control whatsoever as to when one
> will be hit with another baffling synchronicity in their life.
>
> ** **
>
> This obsessive need to schedule mystical experiences, particularly on
> certain dates, like 12/12/12... What a bunch of wusses! It's cheating, too!
> ;-)
>
> ** **
>
> Regards,
>
> Steven Vincent Johnson
>
> www.OrionWorks.com
>
> www.zazzle.com/orionworks
>



-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Daniel Rocha]

I once did some calculation with the volume of the wire, it seems that at
14Watts of output, you have an output equivalent of the same volume in
gasoline burned every 2 minutes. It's an amazing quantity of energy for
such small volume. And gasoline surely holds much more energy/volume than a
lattice with loaded hydrogen. If a lattice could hold so much energy, our
problems with urban pollution would be long solved... and also, rockets
would be much cheaper and we would be colonizing mars for decades already.

So, what we have here today either can be only ascribed to an error of
measurement, since today's readings is already enormous, or is nuclear or
something else weird.


2012/12/13 Mark Gibbs 

> Why not?
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 6:31 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:
>
>> I should say percentage of loading does not appear to be an issue.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:29 PM, Terry Blanton 
>> wrote:
>> > With NiH loading is not an issue.  It seems we have two totally
>> > different LENR reactions occuring.  Are they based on the same
>> > physics?  Maybe yes, maybe no.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:26 PM, Terry Blanton 
>> wrote:
>> >> Yes, McKubre takes the endothermic loading and exothermic off loading
>> >> into his calculations in his work at SRI.
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>> >>> Something I haven't seen any discussion about is the amount of energy
>> >>> required to load materials with hydrogen to be used in these various
>> LENR/CF
>> >>> devices. If that energy is taken into account, are the claims of
>> excess
>> >>> energy from the operation of the devices still valid?
>> >>>
>> >>> [mg]
>>
>>
>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:A sublime day?

[ChemE Stewart]

OK here is some mysticism for 12/12/12.

Verlinde in 2011 published a ground breaking analysis that showed that
gravity could be explained by the entropic force projected as a holograph
on the surface of a black hole.   I showed recently that the magnetic field
and auroras from the Earth match that of a black hole as does the the gas
cloud around many of the planets match the expected beta decay compositions
from interactions with ordinary matter at the surface of dark matter. The
Earth has a black hole at its core and we are just the the 4% beta decay
and LENR crust. The Earth also has a ion/magnetic tail and we wack the moon
with it regularly and it creates a strong static charge at the moon's
surface.

God made the intial black hole to get the ball rolling but from there it
has just spiraled like a Mandlebrot set.

Happy Holidays,

Stewart
darkmattersalot.com









On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:41 PM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson <
orionwo...@charter.net> wrote:

> Jed sed:
>
> ** **
>
> >> Today 12/12/12 was an appropriate day for the announcement
>
> >> of a Celani replication, no?
>
> ** **
>
> > I love the timing! I think the experiment kicked off at 12:12:12
>
> > in the afternoon.
>
> >** **
>
> > I hope we don't find it only works at specific dates and times
>
> > mystically correlated with the Mayan calendar. I would hate to
>
> > learn that cold fusion only works when we make an appropriate
>
> > human sacrifice. However, in that event, I have a long list of
>
> > people I think we should start with.
>
> ** **
>
> Now, now, Mr. Rothwell, you are being very naughty.
>
> ** **
>
> Regarding the world's obsessive need to schedule specific dates for the
> manifestation of mystical experiences, I personally find it far more
> interesting when one has absolutely no control whatsoever as to when one
> will be hit with another baffling synchronicity in their life.
>
> ** **
>
> This obsessive need to schedule mystical experiences, particularly on
> certain dates, like 12/12/12... What a bunch of wusses! It's cheating, too!
> ;-)
>
> ** **
>
> Regards,
>
> Steven Vincent Johnson
>
> www.OrionWorks.com
>
> www.zazzle.com/orionworks
>

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Craig]

The breathing correlates with T_Mica very well. Isn't this the
temperature of the wire? If so, then it's actually power that is
oscillating. I was thinking it might be something in the room environment.

Craig

On 12/12/2012 09:49 PM, Akira Shirakawa wrote:
> On 2012-12-13 03:29, Craig wrote:
>> This is so strange. I set the data in View Test Celani Cell #2, found
>> here:
>>
>> http://data.hugnetlab.com/
>>
>> to view back 4 hours. Then I selected only P_Xs Low. Notice that the
>> excess power is oscillating between 4 watts and 8 watts, in a very
>> precise rhythm, with each wave appearing to have the same shape, and
>> with each wave lasting about an hour. I also see that the wave appears
>> to be tapering with the lows becoming higher and the heights become
>> lower. There also seems to be a correlation with T_Ambient, but why?
>
> Whatever this is, it didn't happen with the previous overnight run
> with power applied to the inert wire (and the active wire partially
> loaded, in hydrogen atmosphere). This is a user-submitted image from
> the MFMP blog showing it:
>
> http://i.imgur.com/bB383.png
> (note that "Power (Red)" actually shows W instead of bar)
>
> From 2012-12-12 00:00 to about 10:00, external glass temperature
> (under 50W of indirect heating) didn't seem to fluctuate very much
> with ambient temperature. However with direct heating (48W) it does
> quite much.
>
> The main difference between those two runs is that the one with
> indirect heating had a starting hydrogen pressure of 2 bar (which
> increase with heat, of course), while the latter ones started at 1
> bar, probably offering less thermal inertia (but still not explaining
> how glass temperature variations can be larger than ambient ones,
> assuming that these are the ones which drive them).
>
> Cheers,
> S.A.
>

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Mark Gibbs]

Why not?

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 6:31 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

> I should say percentage of loading does not appear to be an issue.
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:29 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:
> > With NiH loading is not an issue.  It seems we have two totally
> > different LENR reactions occuring.  Are they based on the same
> > physics?  Maybe yes, maybe no.
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:26 PM, Terry Blanton 
> wrote:
> >> Yes, McKubre takes the endothermic loading and exothermic off loading
> >> into his calculations in his work at SRI.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
> >>> Something I haven't seen any discussion about is the amount of energy
> >>> required to load materials with hydrogen to be used in these various
> LENR/CF
> >>> devices. If that energy is taken into account, are the claims of excess
> >>> energy from the operation of the devices still valid?
> >>>
> >>> [mg]
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Harry Veeder]

I wonder if  Rossi has observed a similar breathing effect. Recalling
the graph from his sept (?) 2011 demo reminds me of the first
oscillation of the graph below.
Rossi may have choosen to limit the length of his public
demonstrations to conceal the oscillations and perhaps his diffiiculty
in maintaining and/or modulating them.
Harry

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:29 PM, Craig  wrote:
> This is so strange. I set the data in View Test Celani Cell #2, found here:
>
> http://data.hugnetlab.com/
>
> to view back 4 hours. Then I selected only P_Xs Low. Notice that the excess
> power is oscillating between 4 watts and 8 watts, in a very precise rhythm,
> with each wave appearing to have the same shape, and with each wave lasting
> about an hour. I also see that the wave appears to be tapering with the lows
> becoming higher and the heights become lower. There also seems to be a
> correlation with T_Ambient, but why?
>
> Very strange.
>
> Craig
>
> On 12/12/2012 09:05 PM, Terry Blanton wrote:
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 7:47 PM, David Roberson  wrote:
>
> Why do we see a breathing type of effect?
>
> This is exactly the term used by McKubre.  It occurs in DPd reactions
> as the metal is loaded to 90+% then allowed to unload.  The gas moves
> into the crystal structure and out again.  It is the motion of the
> loaded gas which affects the reaction in PdD.
>
> Can we relate the same to NiH somehow?
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2012-12-13 03:29, Craig wrote:

This is so strange. I set the data in View Test Celani Cell #2, found here:

http://data.hugnetlab.com/

to view back 4 hours. Then I selected only P_Xs Low. Notice that the
excess power is oscillating between 4 watts and 8 watts, in a very
precise rhythm, with each wave appearing to have the same shape, and
with each wave lasting about an hour. I also see that the wave appears
to be tapering with the lows becoming higher and the heights become
lower. There also seems to be a correlation with T_Ambient, but why?


Whatever this is, it didn't happen with the previous overnight run with 
power applied to the inert wire (and the active wire partially loaded, 
in hydrogen atmosphere). This is a user-submitted image from the MFMP 
blog showing it:


http://i.imgur.com/bB383.png
(note that "Power (Red)" actually shows W instead of bar)

From 2012-12-12 00:00 to about 10:00, external glass temperature (under 
50W of indirect heating) didn't seem to fluctuate very much with ambient 
temperature. However with direct heating (48W) it does quite much.


The main difference between those two runs is that the one with indirect 
heating had a starting hydrogen pressure of 2 bar (which increase with 
heat, of course), while the latter ones started at 1 bar, probably 
offering less thermal inertia (but still not explaining how glass 
temperature variations can be larger than ambient ones, assuming that 
these are the ones which drive them).


Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Terry Blanton]

You have to expose electrons in the Ni by altering the structure of
the crystal or creating cracks so that they can influence the excited
electrons in the nascent hydrogen and, using exclusion, the Ni
electrons influence the positions of the H electorns making the H
atoms momentarily appear to be neutrons.

I think.  :-)

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:
> Defkalion actually alters the crystalline structure.  Cracks do not
> appear to be the issue in their reaction.  They have found a secret in
> altering the crystal structure to increase the reaction.  I'll bet
> that the reactions occur at the surface still.
>
> Note that Defkalion uses nickel foam, not powder.
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:32 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>> Why is it not an issue?
>>
>> [m]
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:
>>>
>>> With NiH loading is not an issue.  It seems we have two totally
>>> different LENR reactions occuring.  Are they based on the same
>>> physics?  Maybe yes, maybe no.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:26 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:
>>> > Yes, McKubre takes the endothermic loading and exothermic off loading
>>> > into his calculations in his work at SRI.
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>>> >> Something I haven't seen any discussion about is the amount of energy
>>> >> required to load materials with hydrogen to be used in these various
>>> >> LENR/CF
>>> >> devices. If that energy is taken into account, are the claims of excess
>>> >> energy from the operation of the devices still valid?
>>> >>
>>> >> [mg]
>>>
>>

RE: [Vo]:A sublime day?

[OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson]

Jed sed:

 

>> Today 12/12/12 was an appropriate day for the announcement

>> of a Celani replication, no?

 

> I love the timing! I think the experiment kicked off at 12:12:12

> in the afternoon.

> 

> I hope we don't find it only works at specific dates and times

> mystically correlated with the Mayan calendar. I would hate to

> learn that cold fusion only works when we make an appropriate

> human sacrifice. However, in that event, I have a long list of

> people I think we should start with.

 

Now, now, Mr. Rothwell, you are being very naughty.

 

Regarding the world's obsessive need to schedule specific dates for the
manifestation of mystical experiences, I personally find it far more
interesting when one has absolutely no control whatsoever as to when one
will be hit with another baffling synchronicity in their life.

 

This obsessive need to schedule mystical experiences, particularly on
certain dates, like 12/12/12... What a bunch of wusses! It's cheating, too!
;-)

 

Regards,

Steven Vincent Johnson

www.OrionWorks.com

www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Terry Blanton]

Defkalion actually alters the crystalline structure.  Cracks do not
appear to be the issue in their reaction.  They have found a secret in
altering the crystal structure to increase the reaction.  I'll bet
that the reactions occur at the surface still.

Note that Defkalion uses nickel foam, not powder.

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:32 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
> Why is it not an issue?
>
> [m]
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:
>>
>> With NiH loading is not an issue.  It seems we have two totally
>> different LENR reactions occuring.  Are they based on the same
>> physics?  Maybe yes, maybe no.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:26 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:
>> > Yes, McKubre takes the endothermic loading and exothermic off loading
>> > into his calculations in his work at SRI.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>> >> Something I haven't seen any discussion about is the amount of energy
>> >> required to load materials with hydrogen to be used in these various
>> >> LENR/CF
>> >> devices. If that energy is taken into account, are the claims of excess
>> >> energy from the operation of the devices still valid?
>> >>
>> >> [mg]
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Terry Blanton]

It's the cracks per Storms.  The reactions appear to occur at the
surfaces only.  In solid Pd, you have to saturate the crystalline
structure.  With high surface areas in Ni powder or Celani's treated
(cracked) wire, there is much more surface area so loading of the
total crystal is much less in play.

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:31 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
> And what about in the MFM Project?
>
> [m]
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 6:26 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:
>>
>> Yes, McKubre takes the endothermic loading and exothermic off loading
>> into his calculations in his work at SRI.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>> > Something I haven't seen any discussion about is the amount of energy
>> > required to load materials with hydrogen to be used in these various
>> > LENR/CF
>> > devices. If that energy is taken into account, are the claims of excess
>> > energy from the operation of the devices still valid?
>> >
>> > [mg]
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Mark Gibbs]

Why is it not an issue?

[m]

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

> With NiH loading is not an issue.  It seems we have two totally
> different LENR reactions occuring.  Are they based on the same
> physics?  Maybe yes, maybe no.
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:26 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:
> > Yes, McKubre takes the endothermic loading and exothermic off loading
> > into his calculations in his work at SRI.
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
> >> Something I haven't seen any discussion about is the amount of energy
> >> required to load materials with hydrogen to be used in these various
> LENR/CF
> >> devices. If that energy is taken into account, are the claims of excess
> >> energy from the operation of the devices still valid?
> >>
> >> [mg]
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Mark Gibbs]

And what about in the MFM Project?

[m]

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 6:26 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

> Yes, McKubre takes the endothermic loading and exothermic off loading
> into his calculations in his work at SRI.
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
> > Something I haven't seen any discussion about is the amount of energy
> > required to load materials with hydrogen to be used in these various
> LENR/CF
> > devices. If that energy is taken into account, are the claims of excess
> > energy from the operation of the devices still valid?
> >
> > [mg]
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Terry Blanton]

I should say percentage of loading does not appear to be an issue.

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:29 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:
> With NiH loading is not an issue.  It seems we have two totally
> different LENR reactions occuring.  Are they based on the same
> physics?  Maybe yes, maybe no.
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:26 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:
>> Yes, McKubre takes the endothermic loading and exothermic off loading
>> into his calculations in his work at SRI.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>>> Something I haven't seen any discussion about is the amount of energy
>>> required to load materials with hydrogen to be used in these various LENR/CF
>>> devices. If that energy is taken into account, are the claims of excess
>>> energy from the operation of the devices still valid?
>>>
>>> [mg]

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Terry Blanton]

With NiH loading is not an issue.  It seems we have two totally
different LENR reactions occuring.  Are they based on the same
physics?  Maybe yes, maybe no.

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:26 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:
> Yes, McKubre takes the endothermic loading and exothermic off loading
> into his calculations in his work at SRI.
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
>> Something I haven't seen any discussion about is the amount of energy
>> required to load materials with hydrogen to be used in these various LENR/CF
>> devices. If that energy is taken into account, are the claims of excess
>> energy from the operation of the devices still valid?
>>
>> [mg]

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Craig]

This is so strange. I set the data in View Test Celani Cell #2, found here:

http://data.hugnetlab.com/

to view back 4 hours. Then I selected only P_Xs Low. Notice that the
excess power is oscillating between 4 watts and 8 watts, in a very
precise rhythm, with each wave appearing to have the same shape, and
with each wave lasting about an hour. I also see that the wave appears
to be tapering with the lows becoming higher and the heights become
lower. There also seems to be a correlation with T_Ambient, but why?

Very strange.

Craig

On 12/12/2012 09:05 PM, Terry Blanton wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 7:47 PM, David Roberson  wrote:
>
>> Why do we see a breathing type of effect?
> This is exactly the term used by McKubre.  It occurs in DPd reactions
> as the metal is loaded to 90+% then allowed to unload.  The gas moves
> into the crystal structure and out again.  It is the motion of the
> loaded gas which affects the reaction in PdD.
>
> Can we relate the same to NiH somehow?
>

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[ChemE Stewart]

I believe the initial endothermic event is the collapse of matter within
the void creating a ball of entropy, which then in turn begins to trigger
beta decay in its surroundings releasing some heat, this will be a
continual cycle as long as you can keep triggering the collapse.

Stewart


On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:

> Something I haven't seen any discussion about is the amount of energy
> required to load materials with hydrogen to be used in these various
> LENR/CF devices. If that energy is taken into account, are the claims of
> excess energy from the operation of the devices still valid?
>
> [mg]
>

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Terry Blanton]

Yes, McKubre takes the endothermic loading and exothermic off loading
into his calculations in his work at SRI.

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Mark Gibbs  wrote:
> Something I haven't seen any discussion about is the amount of energy
> required to load materials with hydrogen to be used in these various LENR/CF
> devices. If that energy is taken into account, are the claims of excess
> energy from the operation of the devices still valid?
>
> [mg]

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Mark Gibbs]

Something I haven't seen any discussion about is the amount of energy
required to load materials with hydrogen to be used in these various
LENR/CF devices. If that energy is taken into account, are the claims of
excess energy from the operation of the devices still valid?

[mg]

Re: [Vo]:A sublime day?

[Terry Blanton]

Twice the beast: 666

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Terry Blanton]

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 7:47 PM, David Roberson  wrote:

> Why do we see a breathing type of effect?

This is exactly the term used by McKubre.  It occurs in DPd reactions
as the metal is loaded to 90+% then allowed to unload.  The gas moves
into the crystal structure and out again.  It is the motion of the
loaded gas which affects the reaction in PdD.

Can we relate the same to NiH somehow?

Re: [Vo]:A sublime day?

[Jed Rothwell]

Jones Beene  wrote:

Today 12/12/12 was an appropriate day for the announcement of a Celani
> replication, no?
>

I love the timing! I think the experiment kicked off at 12:12:12 in the
afternoon.

I hope we don't find it only works at specific dates and times
mystically correlated with the Mayan calendar. I would hate to learn that
cold fusion only works when we make an appropriate human sacrifice.
However, in that event, I have a long list of people I think we should
start with.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:MFM Project

[Harry Veeder]

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 6:39 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
 wrote:
> At 04:47 PM 12/12/2012, Craig wrote:
>>
>> The have 48 watts of input power now and are getting out 52 - 54 watts on
>> their conservative estimate. Their optimistic estimate shows them at  around
>> 67 - 70 watts out.
>
>
> This may be unfair, because it's a reaction to Craig's comment and not the
> MFM results, but "conservative" and "optimistic" don't really have a place
> in scientific reports. What we want to know is the measure of output power,
> the error bar. It's sounding like it's 52-70 watts, which would be amazingly
> imprecise. (Pons-Fleischmann were measuring in milliwatts, if I'm correct,
> using complex isoperibolic calorimetry, and the accuracy of SRI flow
> calorimetry, solid and much simpler but less precise, was, as I recall +/-
> 50 mW.)
>
> With that much imprecision, the input power of 48 watts is only slightly
> outside the error, and some relatively small unidentified effect might
> explain it.
>
> I'm hoping it's unfair

Unless one is trying to see if the data points are consistent with a
*predicted* curve, I don't think error bars are particularly
instructive at this time.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Cap carbon emissions, pay dividends to everyone

[Jojo Jaro]

As it should be.  It is a lousy idea.  If costs to do business increases, 
don't you think companies won't simply pass it on to their consumers.  That 
means us.  In today's donkeykong economy, we don't need another tax to fix a 
non-existent problem.


But more importantly, can we moderate this incessant propaganda about AGW. 
Especially when we have already hashed this topic to death with no consensus 
other than insults and recriminations.


There is not Anthropic Global Warming.  You disagree... good! Let's agree to 
disagree.  But let's agree to stop the off-topic propaganda in Vortex.




Jojo


- Original Message - 
From: "Harry Veeder" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Cap carbon emissions, pay dividends to everyone


On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Jed Rothwell  
wrote:

Good idea!

- Jed



another good idea which will be ignored. ;-)

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[David Roberson]

The results from the latest test run of the MFMP Celani replication are 
definitely interesting, but there appear to be some strange things happening.  
I assume that the power being inputted to the device has an equal effect upon 
the outer glass temperature regardless of the drive wire.  I am not sure there 
has been a good argument as to why this is not true.


If my assumption is correct, then there appears to be an endothermic event when 
the power was first shifted from inactive to active.  This lasted for around 
3000 seconds until the power began to rise.  The small excess output power 
lasted for about 1500 seconds.  The excess power was very small during this 
first rise.  After the rise, an exponential decay occurred that dropped the 
output into the endothermic region for a period of approximately 2000 seconds. 
I would estimate that a significantly larger amount of energy was absorbed 
during this event than released by the positive pulse.  Next a second positive 
excess region occurred that was larger than the first and lasted for about 1000 
seconds.   This period was also followed by a negative excess power pulse that 
exceeded the area of the positive one.  The pattern seems to be following the 
same process into the future.


Why do we see a breathing type of effect?  It looks very much like energy is 
stored and then released, but only a good calibration could verify this is 
happening.  I am not aware of any process that would allow energy to be stored 
during a relatively long period of time and then released for a similar period.


This is going to be an interesting behavior to analyze.  I hope that the end 
result is that there is additional energy being generated by LENR, but it is 
not entirely evident at the moment.  I speculate that the only way that extra 
energy is being generated is if the true calibration is different depending 
upon which wire is driven.  And only then if drive to the active wire does not 
lead to endothermic behavior.


Dave 



-Original Message-
From: Arnaud Kodeck 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Wed, Dec 12, 2012 4:57 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP


Akira said :
> I think it's safe to say that the MFMP finally successfully replicated
> Celani's anomalous thermal effect from his treated Constantan wires. The
> next step is now to determine whether that is a real effect or it's all
> due to a really unexpected artifact lurking somewhere.

I would be a little more conservative. The excess power must be kept for
more than an hour or two, to at least remove any chemical reaction that may
occur.

As shown now, the excess power has decreased just above 4W. That excess heat
might not stay long. Cross finger that it will happen.



 

[Vo]:MFM Project

[Alberto De Souza]

I belive it would be better to do a comparison between cells. The idea is
to build four cells: 2 exactly as Celani's; and 2 again exactly as
Celani's, but without active wires. With proper mounting, the four cells
can have wires almost identical (size and initial resistance). Therefore,
they could be powered up in series (only the wires used for heating). In
this case, all cells would receive the same amount of power and should show
about the same internal and external temperatures. Unless of course, as
many would expect, the active cells show excess heat. In this case,
considering the amount of excess heat Celani saw (~12W of excess heat from
48W of input heat), it would be easy to spot the temperature differences
and, therefore, prove that the excess heat came from LERN in the cells with
active wires.

By using two active and two inactive cells, one could rule out other
factors if the inactive cells show the same internal and external
temperatures and the active cells, at the same time, show significantly
higher temperatures in accordance with Celani's calorimetric formulation.

To avoid problems with pressure and gas composition, the cells could also
be connected in series with tubes and receive the gases in series at the
same time. Before power on, valves between cells (open during gas load)
could be used to isolate then to avoid heat transfer via gas.

I believe this approach is much easier and cheaper than flow calorimetry...

Alberto F. De Souza.


On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 
wrote:

> At 04:47 PM 12/12/2012, Craig wrote:
>
>> The have 48 watts of input power now and are getting out 52 - 54 watts on
>> their conservative estimate. Their optimistic estimate shows them at
>>  around 67 - 70 watts out.
>>
>
> This may be unfair, because it's a reaction to Craig's comment and not the
> MFM results, but "conservative" and "optimistic" don't really have a place
> in scientific reports. What we want to know is the measure of output power,
> the error bar. It's sounding like it's 52-70 watts, which would be
> amazingly imprecise. (Pons-Fleischmann were measuring in milliwatts, if I'm
> correct, using complex isoperibolic calorimetry, and the accuracy of SRI
> flow calorimetry, solid and much simpler but less precise, was, as I recall
> +/- 50 mW.)
>
> With that much imprecision, the input power of 48 watts is only slightly
> outside the error, and some relatively small unidentified effect might
> explain it.
>
> I'm hoping it's unfair
>

[Vo]:A sublime day?

[Jones Beene]

Today 12/12/12 was an appropriate day for the announcement of a Celani
replication, no?  

After all … the number twelve is special – it’s central to several of the
world’s great religions and to the Western calendar– 12 months and so on.
And this is the last day that we will have the month, day and year all
having the same numbers (as conventionally shortened) until 01/01/01 or the
next century: 2101. Not many of us will be around then, even if we get past
12/21/12.

Twelve is a sublime number – having  a perfect number of divisors, and the
sum of its divisors is also a perfect number. But 12 itself is not quite
perfect: there is a subset of 12's divisors that add up to 12 (but with 4
excluded) so 12 is a semi-perfect number. But it is superabundant.
Superabundant numbers are also of interest in connection with the Riemann
hypothesis and the zeta function. Riemann often comes up when mystical
merges with science. Many numerologists were predicting something important
happening today. 

But few if any would think that a potential replication of an
underwhelmingly gainful experiment (Celani) makes this day important.
Skeptics would probably say the shipment of the last box of Twinkies today -
was a more important event LOL. Maybe something else will happen to make
12/12/12 even more sublime.

Time will tell.

Jones

<>

Re: [Vo]:MFM Project

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

At 04:47 PM 12/12/2012, Craig wrote:
The have 48 watts of input power now and are getting out 52 - 54 
watts on their conservative estimate. Their optimistic estimate 
shows them at  around 67 - 70 watts out.


This may be unfair, because it's a reaction to Craig's comment and 
not the MFM results, but "conservative" and "optimistic" don't really 
have a place in scientific reports. What we want to know is the 
measure of output power, the error bar. It's sounding like it's 52-70 
watts, which would be amazingly imprecise. (Pons-Fleischmann were 
measuring in milliwatts, if I'm correct, using complex isoperibolic 
calorimetry, and the accuracy of SRI flow calorimetry, solid and much 
simpler but less precise, was, as I recall +/- 50 mW.)


With that much imprecision, the input power of 48 watts is only 
slightly outside the error, and some relatively small unidentified 
effect might explain it.


I'm hoping it's unfair 

Re: [Vo]:cheap terahertz on a chip!

[Adrian Sampaleanu]

OK, so it looks like personal imaging scanners will be coming to a cell phone 
near you. If I hadn't just watched the "Resonance" documentary I'd be happy to 
see this.

-- Adrian





 From: "Roarty, Francis X" 
To: "vortex-l@eskimo.com"  
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 1:31 PM
Subject: [Vo]:cheap terahertz on a chip!
 

 
http://phys.org/news/2012-12-tiny-low-cost-terahertz-imager-chip.html 
this has game changer written all over it from LENR to opening up huge 
spectrums of communication  bandwidth.
Novel concept side steps cutoff frequency using groups of transistors to open 
and other groups to then  close an antenna path at a terahertz rate using an 
array to build terahertz singles with transistors individually incapable of 
such switching rates…..   
Fran

Re: [Vo]:The Inteligentry/Plasmerg?PTP Licensing saga continues

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

At 04:21 PM 12/12/2012, Axil Axil wrote:

The reason why Russ is using so much spark power (500 joules ) is 
because he is following the system that Bob Rohner built which 
does  NOT use pre-ionization.





Axil, I'm not particularly interested in why an experimenter did 
something, but in what they did and what can be observed to have 
resulted. There is an obvious question here: does this Popper produce 
anomalous energy? Has *any* Popper (from whomever, following the Papp 
engine ideas) ever produced energy? There are reports of Papp engines 
long ago running continuously and generating substantial power. Has 
anything like this been confirmed, recently?


If there is no single-cycle XP, we cannot expect it to appear in 
multiple-cycle engines. That's the craziness I was pointing to, 
regarding the "licensees" believing they were just on the verge of 
success. Yeah, *if there are clear, confirmed, single-cycle 
demonstrations*, then the rush would be legitimately on to develop an 
engine with it. What's bizarre is that rush *without* the simple 
demonstration. Building an engine is complicated, and there will be 
many obstacles and thus many excuses for failure. But a simple demonstration?


If a simple demonstration cannot be constructed, there is no basis at 
all to conclude that the necessary technology is understood enough to 
create an engine.


There is some phenomenon here of reaction to skepticism. Skeptics 
demand running practical devices to believe in the effect, so people 
rush out to try to create them. Bad Idea. A real skeptic will be 
reasonably satisfied with a conclusive demonstration, regardless if 
it's a practical engine. It can be a small effect. It might not even 
be practical, in which case the possibility of practicality would 
still be open, but uncontaminated by any need to "prove" reality.


The FPHE might *never* be practical, except as a demonstration of 
LENR. But, of course, if it's real, there could be a lot more 
research needed to really answer the "practicality" question. As the 
message that Cold Fusion is real starts to penetrate outside the 
peer-reviewed journals that have allowed publication, as the sober 
reviews that have concluded there is a real effect become more 
broadly known, that research *will* be funded. It's already happening.


"Pre-ionization" could represent building up some level of energy 
storage in the working plasma. It would simply make the matter more 
confusion and less clear. Sure, it's possible that some effect would 
rise above noise under these conditions, but, again, there is only 
one reason I can come up with to think that there might be a there there.


That is that John Rohner has made a lot of claims that appear to 
indicate he's got a working engine. Plasmerg.com implies that they 
did a lot of research on the performance of various gases in 
producing the power impulse. But it says *nothing* about energy 
production, with regard to those tests. Did they measure power 
production, or just relative strength of the impulse? It's looking 
like, if they did this at all, it was the latter. It would have been 
relatively simple to measure energy, but if they did it, they are not 
telling us. Nor, I suspect, are they telling their licensees.


From many failures to keep his promises, and from the way in which 
he interacts and comments on other people, John Rohner isn't to be 
trusted. He's got "issues with reality." He reports what he seems to 
want, as if it were fact, rather than what is actually happening. 
It's a not terribly uncommon disease. We may all do this to some 
degree. However someone who does this continually and routinely


It seems that Rohner is a persuasive bullshitter. That is, someone 
has some question, some concern, perhaps some doubt is arising, and 
John is able to respond in a way that the matter seems resolved, 
without that actually having happened. John may have an instinctive 
capacity to come up with excuses that people will adequately buy for 
a time. "Well, I suppose that *could* have actually happened"


It seems to be getting thin. Sterling reports that the "Master 
Manufacturers" at Powergen met last night, and were "unhappy" with 
Rohner. Well, we've heard that before! The real question is whether 
or not they will do something about it. Did PPT licensing actually 
rent all those booths? If so, that's a large chunk of cash that 
disappeared from the company assets ($60,000), making it less likely 
that these guys will get something back on their investment.


You'd think that the money people around John Rohner would realize 
something is off. Why did they need all those booths? There is a 
blatant grandiosity here, the kind that can bankrupt a company that 
is dealing with a real technology, even.


I predict that Russ will fail, unless he starts to analyze his 
existing device instead of moving on to "better." If he makes the 
device more complex, he will be making the analysis more c

Re: [Vo]:Those EMP weapons (and your cellphone) could actually be doing more personal harm than previously thought

[Adrian Sampaleanu]

Forwarding to the list...


- Forwarded Message -
From: Harry Veeder 
To: Adrian Sampaleanu  
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Those EMP weapons (and your cellphone) could actually be 
doing more personal harm than previously thought
 
Great documentary.  The video argues that the wrong question is posed.
We should not be asking if certain man-made EM signals cause cancer.
Rather we should be asking if those EM signals interfere with the
body's
innate capacity to prevent cancer.

The raw power of the signals is not the concern. Over millions of
years our bodies adapted to live with naturally occuring EM rhythms.
The concern is that we are bathing our bodies in unnatural EM rhythms
and this might be altering the our bodies natural rhthyms at the scale
of molecular vibrations.

Harry

On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 11:46 AM, Adrian Sampaleanu  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> This didn't get through on my first attempt. It does look kind of spam-ish,
> I guess, but it was triggered by the other thread on EMP missiles.
>
> This new documentary makes very strong points about how electro-magnetic
> radiation _is_ actually harming us (and other living things). Really worth
> the 1.5 hours. Can anyone on the list either back up the claims made in the
> movie or point out the reason why our body wouldn't respond to even weak
> electro-magnetic interference as the movie claims it does?
>
> Resonance - Beings of Frequency
> http://vimeo.com/54189727
>
> Cheers,
> Adrian
>
>

Re: [Vo]:OT (Holiday Spirit): Christmas Flash Mob... or Group Mind occasionally waking up?

[Jed Rothwell]

mix...@bigpond.com wrote:


The point I have been trying to make, is that no telepathy is required for this,
just sharp eyes and a sense of self preservation.
Probably. But you never know with birds. They can sense magnetism, for 
example, which they use to migrate. Who knows what else they can sense.


It is not inconceivable they use some sort of RF signaling.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Inteligentry/Plasmerg?PTP Licensing saga continues

[James Bowery]

Robin, plasma physics has some interesting behavior regarding the kink
instability that you should consider here.  Specifically, consider a
current traveling through a plasma in a straight line -- no "kink".  Now
consider a helical path for that same current so that it forms what might
be thought of as an electromagnet through the center of the helix.  Each
turn in the helix attracts the one adjacent to it, just as do the turns in
a solid electromagnet.  However, unlike a solid electromagnet there is
nothing that prevents these turns from merging.  When they inevitably
collapse into a single toroid and pinch off the current a kind of
"singularity" occurs that has much in common with an induction coil driven
spark gap.  I don't know what the equations for this look like but it is
easy for me to imagine that current could be "transformed" into voltage
during this transition -- yielding _very_ energetic electrons.

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 3:34 PM,  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Wed, 12 Dec 2012 16:21:55 -0500:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> > The reason why Russ is using so much spark power (500 joules ) is because
> >he is following the system that Bob Rohner built which does  NOT use
> >pre-ionization.   The new control circuit that Russ has invented will
> >pre-ionize the spark channel with a low amperage high voltage spark of
> >about 90, 000 volts  from two auto ignition coils wired in series.   This
> >will switch in the high powered spark discharge from this capacitor bank
> at
> >about 350 volts. This is called “Triggering in a trigatron spark gap”.
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigatron   for the theory, see:
> >
> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CEwQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdigitalcommons.unl.edu%2Fcgi%2Fviewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1022%26context%3Delecengwilliams&ei=R_PIUN_YCOTD0AGMroDYBg&usg=AFQjCNEs1s7LOYnRaKBY4XIihziFcWZAEg&sig2=KhJ0T3Lkdd_I_ol5YZEcAw
> >  This is an innovation that Russ will test to reduce the power needed to
> >ionize the penning gas mix.   Papp used RF or spark voltage to regulate
> the
> >speed of the engine. Russ will use spark timing as is currently done in
> gas
> >engines. Cheers:   Axil * * * * * *
>
> ..which clearly shows that Russ has no idea of the process involved. It's
> precisely the high voltage that is mandatory. (The electrons need as much
> kinetic energy as you can give them.)
> More low energy electrons will not do the trick. Analogous to the
> photoelectric
> effect.
> Energy put into creating low energy electrons is mostly wasted. What he
> should
> be using is a 20 kV capacitor bank, not 350 V.
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>
>

Re: [Vo]:MFM Project

[Harry Veeder]

Thanks. I hope they do the calorimetry soon.
That should reveal or eliminate any possible heating artifact once and for all.

harry

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Akira Shirakawa
 wrote:
> On 2012-12-12 23:39, Harry Veeder wrote:
>>
>> I am confused about the location(s). Where exactly is/are the Celani
>> replications occuring?
>
>
> In Europe (France) and in the US (Minnesota).
>
> The replication apparently showing excess heat as of now is the European
> one, which is very close to the original Celani experiment (using a
> borosilicate glass tube).
>
> They're planning to set up several different cells soon in the Minnesota lab
> in order to more confidently replicate the excess heat effect and verify
> that it's indeed real.
>
> Cheers,
> S.A.
>

Re: [Vo]:MFM Project

[Harry Veeder]

ok, thanks
harry

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 5:44 PM, Arnaud Kodeck  wrote:
> Minnesota for US
> South of France for EU
>
>> I am confused about the location(s). Where exactly is/are the Celani
>> replications occuring?
>>
>> Harry
>

Re: [Vo]:" . . . intellectual embarrassment is tattooed to the naysayers forever . . ."

[ken deboer]

Pretty low bar.
ken deboer

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 2:09 PM,  wrote:

> In reply to  James Bowery's message of Mon, 10 Dec 2012 10:00:29 -0600:
> Hi,
>
> This appears to be the corollary of my definition of a dictatorship. A
> country
> is a dictatorship when it takes measures to prevent it's citizens from
> leaving.
>
> [snip]
> >A Republican form of government has the primary duty, above all others, is
> >to ensure it is practical for consenting adults to leave its jurisdiction
> >to form a new government, laying its foundation on such principles and
> >organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to
> >effect their Safety and Happiness.
> >
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>
>

Re: [Vo]:OT (Holiday Spirit): Christmas Flash Mob... or Group Mind occasionally waking up?

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

At 04:01 PM 12/12/2012, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:

In reply to  OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson's message of Mon, 10 Dec 2012
07:47:21 -0600:
Hi,

The point I have been trying to make, is that no telepathy is 
required for this,

just sharp eyes and a sense of self preservation.


Just millions of years of evolution. Humans do something with 
"culture" which also evolves.


I don't know that the birds have a "sense of self preservation." They 
just do what they do, and what they do is conditioned by genetics 
(this is probably not learned behavior), and that has an *effect* of 
genetic preservation.


The birds react to an incoming object, and they are sensitive to each 
other's movements, obviously.


Human beings can display some similar traits, and it can be eerily 
like telepathy. Essentially, when we do this, it's *like* 
mindreading, it can be mindblowing for those who haven't encountered it.


There is an exercise I saw at a Landmark Education Communications 
Course introduction. It's called the "Colors Exercise." People work 
in pairs. One of the pair says, "at random," -- it isn't random, of 
course, but that's the instruction -- the name of a color, Red, 
Yellow, Blue, Green. The job of the other person is just to echo that 
back. So this starts out as "Red, Red, Green, Green, Blue, Blue," 
etc., or the like with the initiator being followed by the imitating partner.


The same excercise was done in a Relationships seminar. And every 
time I've seen this done, this is what happens: the two people, after 
a time, start saying the name of the color together, with high 
accuracy. That is *not* the instruction, it just happens.


*Try* to do it, if the trying involves predictive thinking, conscious 
pattern recognition, it doesn't work very well! It just happens.


Great minds think alike, could be the saying, but, of course, this is 
just the ordinary human mind! We can "think alike," in unexpected 
ways. My own theory is that the intense visual concentration that 
accompanies this exercise, people are sitting face-to-face, watching 
each other, leads to an "entrainment" of the two mental processes, 
through observation of much more than what is said. The movements of 
eyes, the fine-muscle movements of the face, lead to something that 
I'd call "presence." It's not "individual," it is collective.

Re: [Vo]:MFM Project

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2012-12-12 23:39, Harry Veeder wrote:

I am confused about the location(s). Where exactly is/are the Celani
replications occuring?


In Europe (France) and in the US (Minnesota).

The replication apparently showing excess heat as of now is the European 
one, which is very close to the original Celani experiment (using a 
borosilicate glass tube).


They're planning to set up several different cells soon in the Minnesota 
lab in order to more confidently replicate the excess heat effect and 
verify that it's indeed real.


Cheers,
S.A.

RE: [Vo]:MFM Project

[Arnaud Kodeck]

Minnesota for US
South of France for EU

> I am confused about the location(s). Where exactly is/are the Celani
> replications occuring?
> 
> Harry

Re: [Vo]:Cap carbon emissions, pay dividends to everyone

[Harry Veeder]

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
> Good idea!
>
> - Jed
>

another good idea which will be ignored. ;-)

Harry

Re: [Vo]:MFM Project

[Harry Veeder]

I am confused about the location(s). Where exactly is/are the Celani
replications occuring?

Harry

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Akira Shirakawa
 wrote:
> On 2012-12-12 22:47, Craig wrote:
>>
>> The have 48 watts of input power now and are getting out 52 - 54 watts
>> on their conservative estimate. Their optimistic estimate shows them at
>> around 67 - 70 watts out.
>
>
> The conservative estimate is *really* conservative. Basically, it's the
> calibration with the inert wire which gave the highest external glass
> temperature readings, putting aside that it was running at a lower hydrogen
> pressure (which increases glass temperatures slightly).
>
> Cheers,
> S.A.
>

RE: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Arnaud Kodeck]

I suspect a correlation with ambient temperature with a delay of around 6~8
min. The ambient temperature went down at 23:20 and the calculated excess
power decreased a few minutes later, now at 6W
> 
> On 2012-12-12 22:57, Arnaud Kodeck wrote:
> > As shown now, the excess power has decreased just above 4W. That excess
> heat
> > might not stay long. Cross finger that it will happen.
> 
> It looks like it increased again. Now it's at almost 8W. No apparent
> change in input power or external conditions. Surely, this cell is
> behaving interestingly.
> 
> Cheers,
> S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Dumb ways to die -- cold fusion edition

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

At 03:13 PM 12/12/2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:

This is a popular song published by Metro Trains of Melbourne, Australia:

http://dumbwaystodie.com/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2012/nov/28/dumb-ways-to-die-video

There have been some notably dangerous cold fusion experiments. 
Abd's whacking at beryllium comes to mind.


Well, I didn't "whack" at beryllium. I considered it, very briefly, 
and very quickly rejected the idea. However, there is more to the story.


I bought a piece of beryllium from a seller on eBay who said it was 
"a solid chunk bar" from a "BIG Name Scientific Company."


$37 for 5.85 grams. Turns out that someone is selling pieces of foil, 
for $10 initial bid for about a cm^2, that might have been fine for 
me. After all, the alphas can't penetrate more than a very thin layer 
of Beryllium. But, grasshopper here had jumped for the piece. I'll be 
able to resell it when I'm done, I'd think.


When it arrived, after handling it a bit, I noticed what appeared to 
be some "grime" on two edges. Some rubbed off on my finger. After 
washing my finger, I rubbed some off onto a piece of tissue paper, 
and looked at it under a microscope. Fine particles, looks like metal powder.


So I wrote the seller. He said that the grime was probably burnt oil 
from cutting. Ah. It was cut! After a bit of back and forth where he 
was a tad defensive, i.e., if you are worried, just send it back, he 
finally explained to me that the material had been cut by a friend, 
who had a vacuum hood cutting system keeping the material wet with 
oil. That might be beryllium-safe, if proper displosal is followed. 
However, by now I knew, with high likelilood, that this could be 
beryllium dust clinging to this piece. (It could also be contaminant 
metals from other cutting operations.)


He had obviously purchased bar stock beryllium, and was cutting it 
down into pieces. Not a bad idea, especially given that he had his 
friend cut it. I was, after all, thinking of using a hacksaw (I did 
know that beryllium was toxic, but, hey, I'd be careful! Well, I read 
a lot more)


Supposedly, he had cleaned the oil off the pieces with solvent. But 
that might leave dust, which, after all, would not dissolve in the 
solvent, he'd have to rub it off mechanically. Or clean it off 
thoroughly with clean oil and then use solvent.


It's a tiny quantity. If someone was handling something like this 
every day, yeah, this could be worrisome.


However, people should know what they are getting. As I advised him, 
he added a warning about beryllium hazards to his listing, he is 
selling more pieces. It advises people that beryllium can be 
dangerous and to research beryllium. I hope he is more careful to 
clean the pieces before shipping them.


So what do I do with the bit of tissue I have with a tiny amount of 
what may well be beryllium dust on it? And how do I clean the piece 
of metal, so that it is safe to handle? The risk of inhaling a toxic 
level of beryllium from this small amount of dust is quite low. I 
tried to find minimum total amounts of beryllium to be exempt from 
hazardous waste regulations. No luck so far.


The particles are under ten microns, I think. Beryllium is 1.85 
g/cm^3. A particle may then weigh roughly 2 x 10^-12 g per cubic 
micron, or under 2 nanograms for the 1000 cubic micron particle size. 
I might have a thousand such particles, so I come up with a total 
guesstimate of 2 micrograms. I'd never be able to weigh this. (My 
best scale has 10 mg resolution.)


In the U.S. the peak exposure limit is 25 micrograms/m^3. All of that 
dust would have to become airborne and yet be concentrated in a small 
volume to be a serious problem. Skin or oral exposure aren't nearly 
so dangerous. Acute berylliosis, though, is not the seriously 
dangerous disease, it would be the chronic form, which requires, 
generally, extended exposure (to smaller amounts) for long periods, 
as with employment processing beryllium. Russia has very tight 
standards for routine beryllium exposure, it's 10 nanograms/m^3. 
However, the U.S. standards for *drinking water* are 200 nanograms per liter.


As to emissions in air, the U.S. standard is a maximum amount of 2 
g/hr or 10 g/day. If I had some industrial operation going on here, I 
could be pumping out the amount of beryllium dust I've got over 100 
times per second, as long as the air concentration did not rise above 
the g/volume limit.


If I wash this down the drain, it will be dispersed and remain 
dispersed, to way, way below hazardous levels. Until the waste water 
is processed, it would not be able to become airborn in any quantity. 
The drinking water standard would allow 2 micrograms to exist in 10 
liters of water. I would be at that level if I'm merely running the 
faucet as I wash the piece, and it would continue to disperse 
further. That procedure, washing it off, is less likely to create 
airborne dust, and it looks like the waste w

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2012-12-12 22:57, Arnaud Kodeck wrote:

As shown now, the excess power has decreased just above 4W. That excess heat
might not stay long. Cross finger that it will happen.


It looks like it increased again. Now it's at almost 8W. No apparent 
change in input power or external conditions. Surely, this cell is 
behaving interestingly.


Cheers,
S.A.

RE: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Arnaud Kodeck]

A self sustained system will insure that the excess heat effect is real.
That means put 12m of Celani's wire inside the cell (4W *12 = 48 equal to
input power). But the system will become very unstable. The 4W is an average
calculated so far from results today. As Rossi claims to do, a buffer of
input power must be kept.

Increasing the ratio output / input will insure us of the excess heat.
> -Original Message-
> From: Akira Shirakawa [mailto:shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com]
> Sent: mercredi 12 décembre 2012 23:06
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP
> 
> On 2012-12-12 22:57, Arnaud Kodeck wrote:
> > I would be a little more conservative. The excess power must be kept for
> > more than an hour or two, to at least remove any chemical reaction that
> may
> > occur.
> >
> > As shown now, the excess power has decreased just above 4W. That excess
> heat
> > might not stay long. Cross finger that it will happen.
> 
> You're right. More time is needed to rule out chemical reactions, for
> the current run.
> 
> Before applying power directly to the active wire, they heated the cell
> with the reference (inert) wire for several hours continuously, and it
> still appeared to show significant amounts (a few watts) of excess heat
> however, so I think that chemical sources can already be ruled out.
> 
> The real question, as I previously mentioned, probably is if this excess
> heat effect is actually real or not.
> 
> Cheers,
> S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2012-12-12 22:57, Arnaud Kodeck wrote:

I would be a little more conservative. The excess power must be kept for
more than an hour or two, to at least remove any chemical reaction that may
occur.

As shown now, the excess power has decreased just above 4W. That excess heat
might not stay long. Cross finger that it will happen.


You're right. More time is needed to rule out chemical reactions, for 
the current run.


Before applying power directly to the active wire, they heated the cell 
with the reference (inert) wire for several hours continuously, and it 
still appeared to show significant amounts (a few watts) of excess heat 
however, so I think that chemical sources can already be ruled out.


The real question, as I previously mentioned, probably is if this excess 
heat effect is actually real or not.


Cheers,
S.A.

RE: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Arnaud Kodeck]

Akira said :
> I think it's safe to say that the MFMP finally successfully replicated
> Celani's anomalous thermal effect from his treated Constantan wires. The
> next step is now to determine whether that is a real effect or it's all
> due to a really unexpected artifact lurking somewhere.

I would be a little more conservative. The excess power must be kept for
more than an hour or two, to at least remove any chemical reaction that may
occur.

As shown now, the excess power has decreased just above 4W. That excess heat
might not stay long. Cross finger that it will happen.

Re: [Vo]:MFM Project

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2012-12-12 22:47, Craig wrote:

The have 48 watts of input power now and are getting out 52 - 54 watts
on their conservative estimate. Their optimistic estimate shows them at
around 67 - 70 watts out.


The conservative estimate is *really* conservative. Basically, it's the 
calibration with the inert wire which gave the highest external glass 
temperature readings, putting aside that it was running at a lower 
hydrogen pressure (which increases glass temperatures slightly).


Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:The Inteligentry/Plasmerg?PTP Licensing saga continues

[Axil Axil]

 In past experiments, Russ has shown that a 40,000 high voltage discharge
does not produce piston movement.   This is one reason that I distrust the
workability of the J. Rohner system.   Russ’s current design is the exactly
thr B Rohner design. IMHO, the parameter that is causative is instantaneous
power. Power delivered in a nanosecond is what causes a reaction in the
piston.   This design thinking will be tested in experimentation, the final
judge of all truth.
Cheers:Axil

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 4:34 PM,  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Wed, 12 Dec 2012 16:21:55 -0500:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> > The reason why Russ is using so much spark power (500 joules ) is because
> >he is following the system that Bob Rohner built which does  NOT use
> >pre-ionization.   The new control circuit that Russ has invented will
> >pre-ionize the spark channel with a low amperage high voltage spark of
> >about 90, 000 volts  from two auto ignition coils wired in series.   This
> >will switch in the high powered spark discharge from this capacitor bank
> at
> >about 350 volts. This is called “Triggering in a trigatron spark gap”.
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigatron   for the theory, see:
> >
> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CEwQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdigitalcommons.unl.edu%2Fcgi%2Fviewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1022%26context%3Delecengwilliams&ei=R_PIUN_YCOTD0AGMroDYBg&usg=AFQjCNEs1s7LOYnRaKBY4XIihziFcWZAEg&sig2=KhJ0T3Lkdd_I_ol5YZEcAw
> >  This is an innovation that Russ will test to reduce the power needed to
> >ionize the penning gas mix.   Papp used RF or spark voltage to regulate
> the
> >speed of the engine. Russ will use spark timing as is currently done in
> gas
> >engines. Cheers:   Axil * * * * * *
>
> ..which clearly shows that Russ has no idea of the process involved. It's
> precisely the high voltage that is mandatory. (The electrons need as much
> kinetic energy as you can give them.)
> More low energy electrons will not do the trick. Analogous to the
> photoelectric
> effect.
> Energy put into creating low energy electrons is mostly wasted. What he
> should
> be using is a 20 kV capacitor bank, not 350 V.
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>
>

Re: [Vo]:MFM Project

[Craig]

The have 48 watts of input power now and are getting out 52 - 54 watts
on their conservative estimate. Their optimistic estimate shows them at 
around 67 - 70 watts out.

Craig

On 12/12/2012 04:45 PM, Craig wrote:
> You can follow this latest replication live here:
>
> http://data.hugnetlab.com/
>
> Click on 'View' for Celani Cell #2 and you can follow the live graph.
>
> If you have Google+, you can join a live hangout with them and talk to
> them in real time. The hangout is 'MFMP'.
>
> Craig
>

[Vo]:MFM Project

[Craig]

You can follow this latest replication live here:

http://data.hugnetlab.com/

Click on 'View' for Celani Cell #2 and you can follow the live graph.

If you have Google+, you can join a live hangout with them and talk to
them in real time. The hangout is 'MFMP'.

Craig

Re: [Vo]:The Inteligentry/Plasmerg?PTP Licensing saga continues

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Wed, 12 Dec 2012 16:21:55 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
> The reason why Russ is using so much spark power (500 joules ) is because
>he is following the system that Bob Rohner built which does  NOT use
>pre-ionization.   The new control circuit that Russ has invented will
>pre-ionize the spark channel with a low amperage high voltage spark of
>about 90, 000 volts  from two auto ignition coils wired in series.   This
>will switch in the high powered spark discharge from this capacitor bank at
>about 350 volts. This is called “Triggering in a trigatron spark gap”.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigatron   for the theory, see:
>http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CEwQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdigitalcommons.unl.edu%2Fcgi%2Fviewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1022%26context%3Delecengwilliams&ei=R_PIUN_YCOTD0AGMroDYBg&usg=AFQjCNEs1s7LOYnRaKBY4XIihziFcWZAEg&sig2=KhJ0T3Lkdd_I_ol5YZEcAw
>  This is an innovation that Russ will test to reduce the power needed to
>ionize the penning gas mix.   Papp used RF or spark voltage to regulate the
>speed of the engine. Russ will use spark timing as is currently done in gas
>engines. Cheers:   Axil * * * * * *

..which clearly shows that Russ has no idea of the process involved. It's
precisely the high voltage that is mandatory. (The electrons need as much
kinetic energy as you can give them.) 
More low energy electrons will not do the trick. Analogous to the photoelectric
effect.
Energy put into creating low energy electrons is mostly wasted. What he should
be using is a 20 kV capacitor bank, not 350 V.
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2012-12-12 22:08, Arnaud Kodeck wrote:

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/follow/176-eu-cell-2-active-wire-run

Promising results are shown from EU cell of MFMP !


It seems that even taking into account the most conservative baseline to 
determine output power by curve fitting (to the previously made 
calibration runs), they're already showing excess power at about 6W. 
With the least conservative baseline, that's about 20W.


It looks like using borosilicate glass instead of quartz did really make 
a difference. Quartz glass is almost completely transparent to IR 
radiation, while borosilicate glass is mostly (although not totally) 
opaque to it.


Note to readers: the MFMP team is not using the Stefan-Boltzmann law to 
determine output power. This decreases the likelihood of large errors.


I think it's safe to say that the MFMP finally successfully replicated 
Celani's anomalous thermal effect from his treated Constantan wires. The 
next step is now to determine whether that is a real effect or it's all 
due to a really unexpected artifact lurking somewhere.


Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:The Inteligentry/Plasmerg?PTP Licensing saga continues

[Axil Axil]

 The reason why Russ is using so much spark power (500 joules ) is because
he is following the system that Bob Rohner built which does  NOT use
pre-ionization.   The new control circuit that Russ has invented will
pre-ionize the spark channel with a low amperage high voltage spark of
about 90, 000 volts  from two auto ignition coils wired in series.   This
will switch in the high powered spark discharge from this capacitor bank at
about 350 volts. This is called “Triggering in a trigatron spark gap”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigatron   for the theory, see:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CEwQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdigitalcommons.unl.edu%2Fcgi%2Fviewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1022%26context%3Delecengwilliams&ei=R_PIUN_YCOTD0AGMroDYBg&usg=AFQjCNEs1s7LOYnRaKBY4XIihziFcWZAEg&sig2=KhJ0T3Lkdd_I_ol5YZEcAw
  This is an innovation that Russ will test to reduce the power needed to
ionize the penning gas mix.   Papp used RF or spark voltage to regulate the
speed of the engine. Russ will use spark timing as is currently done in gas
engines. Cheers:   Axil * * * * * *

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 
wrote:

> 500 joules

Re: [Vo]:" . . . intellectual embarrassment is tattooed to the naysayers forever . . ."

[mixent]

In reply to  James Bowery's message of Mon, 10 Dec 2012 10:00:29 -0600:
Hi,

This appears to be the corollary of my definition of a dictatorship. A country
is a dictatorship when it takes measures to prevent it's citizens from leaving.

[snip]
>A Republican form of government has the primary duty, above all others, is
>to ensure it is practical for consenting adults to leave its jurisdiction
>to form a new government, laying its foundation on such principles and
>organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to
>effect their Safety and Happiness.
>
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

[Vo]:Direct heating of Celani's wire at EU cell of MFMP

[Arnaud Kodeck]

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/follow/176-eu-cell-2-active-wire-run

 

Promising results are shown from EU cell of MFMP !

 

Arnaud

Re: [Vo]:Cap carbon emissions, pay dividends to everyone

[Jed Rothwell]

Good idea!

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:OT (Holiday Spirit): Christmas Flash Mob... or Group Mind occasionally waking up?

[mixent]

In reply to  OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson's message of Mon, 10 Dec 2012
07:47:21 -0600:
Hi,

The point I have been trying to make, is that no telepathy is required for this,
just sharp eyes and a sense of self preservation.


>From Robin:
>
>>  ... In either case, it's obvious that each bird takes
>> it's queues from the others in one way or another, otherwise
>> there would be no flock at all.
>
>The flock appears to be the leader.
>
>Here's a great You Tube flick of a small flock of starlings defending
>themselves against an attack by a hawk. The behavior of the "flock" in
>making in what appears from our perspective to be making singular decisions
>becomes more apparent.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8eZJnbDHIg
>
>Of course each of the individual starling are reacting collectively by
>bunching up closer together to stymie the Hawk, but that's the whole point.
>Visually speaking, it appears to be the resulting collective behavior that
>is most startling and apparent. The collective behavior is greater than the
>sum of its parts.
>
>Regards,
>Steven Vincent Johnson
>www.OrionWorks.com
>www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Blacklight...

[mixent]

In reply to  Roarty, Francis X's message of Wed, 12 Dec 2012 20:34:37 +:
Hi Fran,

I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree. ;)

>Robin,
>   I agree most of LENR is mediated by the same force "responsible" for 
> hydrinos  but I would disagree that hydrinos are the mediating force,
>In Jan Naudt's relativistic interpretation of Mill's hydrino only the hydrogen 
>being ejected from the corona has a near enough velocity to C to equate to 
>significantly fractional hydrogen [hydrino]... Or as I infer from his paper, 
>occurs in a stationary catalyst/nano powder which exposes a gas to Casimir 
>geometry for it to also become relativistic [equivalence]. In both cases it 
>remains just hydrogen from the perspective of a tiny local observer in the 
>same inertial frame as the hydrogen Like the dilation experienced by an 
>object approaching C, I am convinced that hydrogen confined inside a nickel 
>lattice with Casimir geometry also becomes dilated, it perceives the outside 
>world as having a ratio of V^2/C^2 equivalent to the ratio seen by a near 
>luminal object just like the hydrogen being ejected from the corona. The 
>confined gas requires suppression of C^2 instead of increasing V^2 to modify 
>the dilation ratio, a sort of negative perspective from the nominal baseline 
>where we
>tend to think of open space and lack of any spatial velocity as the "zero" 
>point for relativistic consideration.. I am positing that Casimir geometry 
>suppresses C instead of compressing V... making V^2/C^2 suddenly a dynamic 
>value slewing wildly with the slightest motion of gas relative to Casimir 
>geometry but in a negative direction lower than that zero point we normally 
>self impose. It is the tiny observer inside the cavity that perceives us 
>outside the cavity as slowing down in time in the same way we perceive the 
>near C object as slowing down.[or from our perspective reactions inside the 
>cavity are accelerated by these rapid changes in dilation factor]
>Regards
>Fran
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: mix...@bigpond.com [mailto:mix...@bigpond.com] 
>Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:12 PM
>To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
>Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Blacklight...
>
>In reply to  Alain Sepeda's message of Tue, 11 Dec 2012 21:03:10 +0100:
>Hi,
>
>IMO, Mills is not LENR. It is what he says it is. Hydrinos. However I suspect
>that most of LENR is mediated by Hydrinos too ;)
>
>
>>Hi, I hijack a little that thread to ask you all, what are your various
>>opinion on their claimed technology of LENR to electricity direct
>>conversion (CIHT).
>>
>>I don't see any other paper or lab results that are similar.
>>Anomalous heat, transmutation, and radiations are quite validated , but
>>device producing electricity are not yet seen...
>>
>>The claim of validation are quite individual reports of quick testing...
>>
>>what are your opinions.
>>
>>tnaks in advance for your informations and opinions.
>[snip]
>Regards,
>
>Robin van Spaandonk
>
>http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Blacklight...

[Roarty, Francis X]

Robin,
I agree most of LENR is mediated by the same force "responsible" for 
hydrinos  but I would disagree that hydrinos are the mediating force,
In Jan Naudt's relativistic interpretation of Mill's hydrino only the hydrogen 
being ejected from the corona has a near enough velocity to C to equate to 
significantly fractional hydrogen [hydrino]... Or as I infer from his paper, 
occurs in a stationary catalyst/nano powder which exposes a gas to Casimir 
geometry for it to also become relativistic [equivalence]. In both cases it 
remains just hydrogen from the perspective of a tiny local observer in the same 
inertial frame as the hydrogen Like the dilation experienced by an object 
approaching C, I am convinced that hydrogen confined inside a nickel lattice 
with Casimir geometry also becomes dilated, it perceives the outside world as 
having a ratio of V^2/C^2 equivalent to the ratio seen by a near luminal object 
just like the hydrogen being ejected from the corona. The confined gas requires 
suppression of C^2 instead of increasing V^2 to modify the dilation ratio, a 
sort of negative perspective from the nominal baseline where we tend to think 
of open space and lack of any spatial velocity as the "zero" point for 
relativistic consideration.. I am positing that Casimir geometry suppresses C 
instead of compressing V... making V^2/C^2 suddenly a dynamic value slewing 
wildly with the slightest motion of gas relative to Casimir geometry but in a 
negative direction lower than that zero point we normally self impose. It is 
the tiny observer inside the cavity that perceives us outside the cavity as 
slowing down in time in the same way we perceive the near C object as slowing 
down.[or from our perspective reactions inside the cavity are accelerated by 
these rapid changes in dilation factor]
Regards
Fran



-Original Message-
From: mix...@bigpond.com [mailto:mix...@bigpond.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:12 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Blacklight...

In reply to  Alain Sepeda's message of Tue, 11 Dec 2012 21:03:10 +0100:
Hi,

IMO, Mills is not LENR. It is what he says it is. Hydrinos. However I suspect
that most of LENR is mediated by Hydrinos too ;)


>Hi, I hijack a little that thread to ask you all, what are your various
>opinion on their claimed technology of LENR to electricity direct
>conversion (CIHT).
>
>I don't see any other paper or lab results that are similar.
>Anomalous heat, transmutation, and radiations are quite validated , but
>device producing electricity are not yet seen...
>
>The claim of validation are quite individual reports of quick testing...
>
>what are your opinions.
>
>tnaks in advance for your informations and opinions.
[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

[Vo]:Cap carbon emissions, pay dividends to everyone

[Harry Veeder]

Want the public to heed global warming threats? Cap carbon emissions,
pay dividends to everyone

http://bangordailynews.com/2012/12/11/opinion/want-the-public-to-heed-global-warming-threats-cap-carbon-emissions-pay-dividends-to-everyone/


<>


Harry

[Vo]:Dumb ways to die -- cold fusion edition

[Jed Rothwell]

This is a popular song published by Metro Trains of Melbourne, Australia:

http://dumbwaystodie.com/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2012/nov/28/dumb-ways-to-die-video

There have been some notably dangerous cold fusion experiments. Abd's
whacking at beryllium comes to mind. Stan Gleeson and his partner died
young. McKubre described their experiment as "hair raising" they were so
hazardous. Gleeson thought they were reducing radioactivity but McKubre
thinks they were vaporizing radioactive material and breathing in the
particles.

Mizuno was afraid to go into the room where Ohmori conducted his
experiments. Mizuno's own high temperature experiments seemed dangerous to
some experts I consulted with, who said that his stainless steel cells were
probably embrittled with hydrogen, and close to the breaking point.

Rossi's devices look dangerous to me. They are scaled up 2 to 5 orders of
magnitude larger than they need to be for any rational business purpose.

I do not understand why people take unnecessary risks.

- Jed

[Vo]:The Inteligentry/Plasmerg?PTP Licensing saga continues

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

http://pesn.com/2012/12/10/9602241_Inteligentry_Egg-on-Face_PowerGen/

PowerGen opened and no running demonstration engine.

Now, what I notice on the PESN page is a comment 
from a licensee, Ben Gresham, representing G&G 
Products Family of Companies, LLC.


They have two non-running engines they built at PowerGen.

Now, for all those that doubt the technology or 
the ability of such an engine to be mass 
produced, I truly understand your skepticism. 
The longer we work with John Rohner, the more we 
realize the guy may have some issues with 
reality. He is paranoid and guarded, he doesn't 
have a clue about how manufacturing works, his 
comprehension of mechanical issues is limited, 
and he has to be shown his way may not work 
before he'll listen to anybody about alternatives.


That being said, I have come to understand his 
traits and learned to be patient with him. There 
is no doubt of his electrical genius and his 
understanding of theory is much better than most.


If he has an "understanding of theory," it does 
not seem apparent. From the Plasmerg home page: http://www.plasmerg.com/


This is a new system that crosses the previous 
borders the science of physics as it is part 
Fusion, fission and plasma working together 
utilizing elements of each to the advantage of 
the result. this result is power.


This is a statement showing about zero 
understanding. Fusion and fission? Any evidence for this? Gresham continues:


As is with most geniuses, there is some egotism 
and eccentricities that one has to deal with. We 
have elected to stay the course, not just 
because of all the blood, sweat, and tears 
invested, but because we truly believe in John 
and his Plasma Transition Process™. We have no 
doubt this will change the world as we know it. 
It's simply a matter of timing and having all 
the right pieces falling together.


"Egos" and "Eccentrics" seem to be able to 
attract support like this, phenomenally naive 
support. If Gresham actually has reason to 
believe that this thing works, he's not telling 
us. He is building an engine, a far more 
complicated affair than a demonstration device. 
The non-existent Popppers are demonstration 
devices. An engine would be built from multiple 
devices. A Popper will show a single cycle of 
what, repeated, would make up an engine. If you 
can't build a Popper, and test it, you can't 
build an engine. Building an engine is complex, 
and there can be many delays, and Rohner always 
has some excuse why he can't demonstrate an 
*engine.* But what about a demonstration of the effect itself?


And, it seems, there are licensees willing to 
pour a lot of money in without having seen such a 
demonstration. Maybe a Popper exists, and maybe 
they've seen it, but we also see naive response 
to, say Russ's Popper, as if a piston moving when 
you dump 500 joules into it is somehow amazing. 
There is *no report* from anyone that energy 
output has been measured from one of these, in 
recent times, that exceeded energy in (i.e, that 
is finding energy from an anomalous source).


another licensee (Barry Mead) writes:

Before I invested in this technology, I 
carefully investigated the reality of the 
physics involved.  Although many skeptics find 
it hard to believe, there really is a way to 
coax free energy out of the Zero Point, using 
the 4th state of matter (Plasma).


I personally visited John Rohner at his business 
in Las Vegas, and found him to be extremely 
intelligent and competent as both an Electronics 
Engineer and Embedded Systems Software 
developer.  I ought to know because I have been 
a Senior Electronics Engineer and Embedded 
Systems Software engineer myself for over 25 
years. All of the electronics designs are 
brilliant, and the software that John is 
developing in his controllers is absolutely real!


Even if John could use a little more experience 
in mechanical engineering, I don't think that is 
an issue, because there are thousands of 
qualified people to help out in this area.  The 
difficult tasks of controlling the timing and 
sequencing of the physics events that bring 
about the free energy conversion reaction are 
well handled, and success is inevitable.


Wow! "Real software." Some accomplishment, eh? I 
guess when you run out of good things to say 
about someone, you have to make them up. So John 
is writing software. This means?


John Rohner can impress an Electronics Engineer 
and Embedded Systems Software engineer, with his 
knowledge of that field. Great! What does this 
have to do with what would be necessary to "coax 
free energy out of the Zero Point?" What are the "physics events?"


What is the *evidence* for this "free energy 
conversion reaction"? Lots of us would love to 
know that Free Energy is possible, even though it 
might make those of us who *do* understand some 
physics a bit uncomfortable. But what I'm seeing 
here is phenomenal naivete, almost certainly 
based on some personal sense that one can judge 
*sc

Re: [Vo]:Thoughts on reading the Papp patent - #2.

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

At 12:50 AM 12/12/2012, Eric Walker wrote:

I think it is Bob Rohner's company that has the 
kits, and he appears to be making them 
available, contrary to John Rohner's wishes, 
if I remember correctly. Â It also looks like 
Bob Rohner's kit is the one that Russ Gries is 
testing out in the youtube videos [1]. Â I also 
believe it was Bob Rohner that demonstrated a device to Michael McKubre.


[1]Â 
http://pesn.com/2012/10/02/9602199_Russ_Gries_runs_Bob_Rohners_Noble_Gas_Popper_replication_on_Hydrogen/


The original kit was offered by John Rohner, and 
Russ bought one, and decided the information with 
it was completely inadequate. There are lots of 
details to cover to accurately report on all this "news."


I see no sign in the PESN page cited that 
Rohner's company "has the kits." Rather, Russ 
followed Bob Rohner's "procedures." Very 
explicitly, Russ claims that only 3% of what he did came from Bob Rohner.


There is something totally frustrating about 
Russ's reports. He's operating a Popper, and 
generating some considerable force with it. But 
he's also got a capacitor bank discharging into 
the thing. He dumped, in a single "pop," almost 
500 Joules into it. There is *no* information 
that can allow the calculation of work done by 
that piston. We have no idea if there is any XP at all.


A joule would lift 100 grams a meter. Suppose the 
weight and the piston are 10 kg.


500 Joules, efficiently transferred, could lift 
them a half-meter, more than enough.


Michael McKubre was present at the Tesla 
conference where Bob Rohner demonstrated his own 
popper, and where Plasmerg announced the John 
Rohner Popper kit. I've seen nothing from McKubre 
that would represent a validation of the Papp 
engine, only some comment that there might be 
something interesting happening. And that's 
obvious. After all, I spent many hours 
researching Papp on the web. Interesting. And 
apparently seriously crazy, that submarine affair was a doozy.


Yet all this was interesting enough that Feynman 
attended a Papp demonstration. Feynman pulled the 
plug. Originally, he pulled it with Papp's 
permission, but then delayed handing it back as 
Papp became more and more frantic. And then the 
thing exploded. Feynman had, rather obviously, 
shut down the control system. There were attempts 
made to claim that Papp had deliberately exploded 
his device, but not only does that seem thin as 
hell, under those conditions, Caltech did pay a 
settlement to the family of the deceased. I'm 
sure there was an investigation, and explosives would leave traces.


This may have been the saddest incident of Feynman's life.

McKubre is a real scientist, a professional. He 
does not rule things out on theoretical grounds. 
If he runs calorimetry or an energy balance study 
on this or something else, we can trust it. When 
John Rohner attacks "MM", I think he means McKubre.

[Vo]:cheap terahertz on a chip!

[Roarty, Francis X]

http://phys.org/news/2012-12-tiny-low-cost-terahertz-imager-chip.html
this has game changer written all over it from LENR to opening up huge 
spectrums of communication  bandwidth.
Novel concept side steps cutoff frequency using groups of transistors to open 
and other groups to then  close an antenna path at a terahertz rate using an 
array to build terahertz singles with transistors individually incapable of 
such switching rates.
Fran

[Vo]:solar-to-cable-to-current ?

[Jones Beene]

>From the "half-baked" (but edible) department  

Hybrids are everywhere these days. Technology is merging, and borrowing, and
looking for synergy. Solar energy too, is beginning to move in a surprising
way due to "information technology" hybridization.

Fiber optic cable is not yet involved in solar energy, but change is in the
wind. These cables consists of thin glass filaments which transmit
lightwaves with low loss- thus carrying large amounts of data due to the
naturally high frequency. BUT not much energy ... at least not normally. In
fact, fiber optics cables are specifically designed so that electrical
induction (EMI / RFI) is almost nonexistent -thus eliminating issues related
to electronic noise in communications. 

But maybe we want the opposite - at least in some applications, noise can be
your friend! Is this the way technology is pushing? Here is the first piece
of the puzzle.

http://news.ucsc.edu/2012/12/sun-to-fiber.html

The reason emf could be now desirable (to the extent of being engineered
into a device) instead of a no-no - is the emergence of solar-to-fiber
techniques. If one couples solar irradiation to fibers efficiently, by
turning a wide spectrum into semi-coherence, then we are moving into new
territory in overall efficiency. If we can then use semi-coherent photons to
induce current in a special secondary filament or coating - one that
converts lightwaves to emf, then net efficiency should be higher than what
is seen in practice with planar solar photocells. In fact, the end result
would be a "linear photocell for semi-coherent light", which could have
obvious advantages.

Before you shake your head thinking that going from photons to emf via optic
cable  is being needlessly complicated in pursuit of unknown gains, it turns
out that it has already been done - and some heavy hitters are onboard in
Silicon valley.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/the-smarter-grid/electricity-over-glass

Back to the big picture. Solar installations are surging in the USA - even
in a weak economy, even as tax breaks are dwindling. Increases of 40%
year-to-year in added capacity is incredible but will level off when tax
breaks are gone. However, we are only a breakthrough or two away from a
scenario which could follow Moore's Law, if information technology gets
involved in a big way, as it should. 

http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/11/solar-installations-surge-on-lower
-costs-and-government-support/

Imagine what would will happen when the average efficiency of solar goes up
from about 17% today with rooftop solar cells - to 35% with
"solar-to-cable-to-current" in a few years - and with better batteries to
store it and better plug-in vehicles to use  it. Technology could be
pointing this way.

All of which is not to diminish the overriding need for LENR, but the point
is that efficient solar will likely be a bigger part of the energy mix than
anyone suspects, and sooner than expected. 

Jones



<>