Re: [Vo]:Asteroid 2009 DD45
Personally I am highly skeptical that they could predict with enough accuracy where one would fall in the event it is actually small enough to evacuate an area rather than a whole country. On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 4:54 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Mon, 9 Mar 2009 20:47:53 -0400: Hi, [snip] Robin van Spaandonk wrote: Evacuate a city, which is approximately the amount of damage a 1 MT blast would do. One week ahead of time, could they determine with enough accuracy where the object will strike? Or would they have to say: 'evacuate everyplace from X west to Y'? I do not know enough about astronomy to judge. I think after tracking it for 1 or 2 days they could come pretty close, and the closer it got the more accurate their determination. One could start by beginning to evacuate people from what would most likely be the impact point. If the zone was initially large, you could provide a general warning, and suggest that those who were able, leave. This might be applicable if the zone were to include e.g. the whole Eastern seaboard, but make clear that only a city sized area would ultimately be affected. That gives people a sense of their chances of survival if they stay put. It also ensures that those who are in a position to leave early do so, thus limiting the last minute congestion. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Asteroid 2009 DD45
On Mar 8, 2009, at 5:35 PM, Kyle Mcallister wrote: Given that I've now made a couple nice power supplies, maybe I should do some tests of the Morton effect. I don't have a sphere terminal. Maybe a stainless steel soup pot will work? :) --Kyle A couple hemispherical metal salad bowls might work and are not too pricey at Wal-Mart. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:Asteroid 2009 DD45
On Mar 8, 2009, at 4:22 PM, Kyle Mcallister wrote: If during this financial mess we can monitor volcanoes (which we can do NOTHING about), we can watch the skies a little better. Volcano monitoring here in Alaska is pretty important. Volcanic eruptions affect air traffic routing and people's daily lives in terms of preparedness, carrying masks, buying air filters, stocking up on food, and scheduling work, trips, etc. It is also important for the science of volcanology. I agree asteroid monitoring is important too. See: http://mtaonline.net/~hheffner/asteroidRadar.pdf Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:Asteroid 2009 DD45
Kyle Mcallister wrote: If during this financial mess we can monitor volcanoes (which we can do NOTHING about) . . . As I wrote repeatedly, we can LOTS about volcanoes. We can't stop them, of course, but we can prevent them from killing people or damaging equipment unnecessarily. We can mitigate the danger and financial loss. Horace Heffner also reiterated this. The notions that volcano monitoring is only good for doomsday prediction or that the intention is to do something to stop the volcano are ludicrous, and unscientific. We should also keep an eye on asteroids, and possibly develop a method of deflecting them. Cold fusion and antigravity would be a great help in deflecting them. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Asteroid 2009 DD45
--- Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: As I wrote repeatedly, we can LOTS about volcanoes. We can't stop them, of course, but we can prevent them from killing people or damaging equipment unnecessarily. We can mitigate the danger and financial loss. Horace Heffner also reiterated this. Same with volcanoes as it is with asteroids: we can save lives if we know ahead of time. If the thing blows (or enters atmosphere) without warning, people die. Only difference is, with our technological level, we CAN stop asteroids. Unless something happens a la Jack McDevitt's Moonfall. The notions that volcano monitoring is only good for doomsday prediction or that the intention is to do something to stop the volcano are ludicrous, and unscientific. I didn't say this. I said, asteroid defense makes more sense in light of the fact that we can do something about it. AFAIK, we can't stop eruptions. We should still keep an eye on them, but the point is, if we can spend money on vulcanology, we can spend it on asteroid defense. We should also keep an eye on asteroids, and possibly develop a method of deflecting them. Cold fusion and antigravity would be a great help in deflecting them. Assuming cold fusion ever amounts to anything. Look guys, it is time we stopped messing with making the most sensitive calorimeter in the world, and try to make the stuff simply work. Make a coffee pot with the thing, using whatever materials work, and brew up some Maxwell House. Then Park et al can choke on their java. This applies to all claims of overunity (whatever it is), antigravity (whatever it is), and so on. Doing la de da de da is for later. Just make a coffee maker with the thing, using raw heat, and that'll get people interested. Why can't we do this? If it is so well proven, as you assert, why can't anyone seem to reproduce it? Why are we doing experiment after experiment, changing things? Find one that works, stick with it, and heat some water. That aside, there is also no funding in the bill for antigravity or cold fusion, or anything of the sort. What's so wrong with nitpicking the damn thing? --Kyle
Re: [Vo]:Asteroid 2009 DD45
--- Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote: A couple hemispherical metal salad bowls might work and are not too pricey at Wal-Mart. Good idea. I will get a couple of them, split some vinyl tubing down the side, and wrap the lip to prevent corona. Noticed Bill Beatty did some attempts at reproducing it, but with according to the late John Schnurer, the wrong polarity. Given that I have identical + and - 100kV supplies, I can try both ways. Where is Bill? Did he ever try it the other polarity? Will he ever reappear, wielding the Broom of Doom and clean up the mess that Vortex-L is becoming? Can we all get back to experiments, please? If *I* do some experiments relevant to the list and post results, will it garner any discussion, or just fade away into the abyss of religious and political nonsense? --Kyle
Re: [Vo]:Asteroid 2009 DD45
In reply to Kyle Mcallister's message of Sun, 8 Mar 2009 17:22:23 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] This is not the scale of skywatch program we need. If people can scream about CO2 emissions, they damn sure ought to get a bit scared when a rock is discovered only 1.5 million miles away, heading basically right for us. What could we do in less than a week? Evacuate a city, which is approximately the amount of damage a 1 MT blast would do. With more advance notice, we might be able to do something. Larger rocks would be brighter in the sky, and would likely be detected earlier, giving us more time to act. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Asteroid 2009 DD45
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, Kyle Mcallister kyle_mcallis...@yahoo.com mounted the barricade and roared out: Same with volcanoes as it is with asteroids: we can save lives if we know ahead of time. If the thing blows (or enters atmosphere) without warning, people die. Only difference is, with our technological level, we CAN stop asteroids. Unless something happens a la Jack McDevitt's Moonfall. While no one can (yet) stop a pyroclastic flow-in-progress, there _is_ new tek out there to stop lava dead in its trax, apparently. And I would assume that the intelligent placement and detonation of hi-explosives could likely do much to redirect the forces which are about to explode onto whatever communities lie at the base of a volcano. Of course, the real problem is why people are forced to live so close to volcanos. You can always do agriculture on the slopes -- but live quite comfortably far away, for instance. Assuming cold fusion ever amounts to anything. Look guys, it is time we stopped messing with making the most sensitive calorimeter in the world, and try to make the stuff simply work. Make a coffee pot with the thing, using whatever materials work, and brew up some Maxwell House. Then Park et al can choke on their java. This applies to all claims of overunity (whatever it is), antigravity (whatever it is), and so on. Doing la de da de da is for later. Just make a coffee maker with the thing, using raw heat, and that'll get people interested. Why can't we do this? If it is so well proven, as you assert, why can't anyone seem to reproduce it? Why are we doing experiment after experiment, changing things? Find one that works, stick with it, and heat some water. How come no one ever answers this oft-made reasonable request with a working device..? The lack of any known response is what is giving all the skeptix a field-day. - -- grok. - -- *** FULL-SPECTRUM DOMINANCE! *** * Boycott the Bourgeois Economy: BUY PROGRESSIVE * ** Critical endorsement only * Gift-giving Year-round ** * http://www.counterpunch.org/books.htmlCounterPunch Books * * Consumer-Powered Conservation Products: * * http://www.wildlifeworks.com Wildlife Works * * http://www.palestineonlinestore.com Palestine Online Store * * http://www.greenpeace.ca/tissue Greenpeace Shopper's Guide * * http://www.leftbooks.com leftbooks.com * * http://www.mehring.com Mehring Books * * http://www.ufwstore.comUnited Farm Workers Store * ** Where the barricades end -- real democracy begins * GPG fingerprint = 2E7F 2D69 4B0B C8D5 07E3 09C3 5E8D C4B4 461B B771 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkm1ojgACgkQXo3EtEYbt3G0KwCdETbCtvixHN2U2TBpfw4sUZst H9sAn2pYNazs/NMpNymuS2PLADgIeZkG =ynPz -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Vo]:Asteroid 2009 DD45
Robin van Spaandonk wrote: Evacuate a city, which is approximately the amount of damage a 1 MT blast would do. One week ahead of time, could they determine with enough accuracy where the object will strike? Or would they have to say: 'evacuate everyplace from X west to Y'? I do not know enough about astronomy to judge. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Asteroid 2009 DD45
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Mon, 9 Mar 2009 20:47:53 -0400: Hi, [snip] Robin van Spaandonk wrote: Evacuate a city, which is approximately the amount of damage a 1 MT blast would do. One week ahead of time, could they determine with enough accuracy where the object will strike? Or would they have to say: 'evacuate everyplace from X west to Y'? I do not know enough about astronomy to judge. I think after tracking it for 1 or 2 days they could come pretty close, and the closer it got the more accurate their determination. One could start by beginning to evacuate people from what would most likely be the impact point. If the zone was initially large, you could provide a general warning, and suggest that those who were able, leave. This might be applicable if the zone were to include e.g. the whole Eastern seaboard, but make clear that only a city sized area would ultimately be affected. That gives people a sense of their chances of survival if they stay put. It also ensures that those who are in a position to leave early do so, thus limiting the last minute congestion. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Asteroid 2009 DD45
--- Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote: Asteroid 2009 DD45 had a 48,000 mile close call March 2, 2009. What has not explicitly been said AFAIK is whether or not that was within a window that can establish a resonant return, i.e. a direct hit on a return fly by. Perhaps it is too soon to know due to the near earth gravitational anomalies. Chilling thing is, it was already bloody close to us when discovered, about 1.5 million miles. My major fear of this is not so much the damage it would cause if it hit...we can survive a multimegaton-equivalent impact. But what is preventing some idiots from seeing this, not thinking, and saying ROTATE LAUNCH KEY AND RELEASE. With so much utter trash in The Mighty Hambone stimulus bill, why is there not some cash for asteroid detection and defense? We know this is a threat, we have clear proof of it. Much more so than 'other' things in there which the threat of is decidedly unclear. Where's Eugene Shoemaker when you need him? --Kyle
Re: [Vo]:Asteroid 2009 DD45
In reply to Kyle Mcallister's message of Sun, 8 Mar 2009 14:13:34 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] With so much utter trash in The Mighty Hambone stimulus bill, why is there not some cash for asteroid detection and defense? We know this is a threat, we have clear proof of it. Much more so than 'other' things in there which the threat of is decidedly unclear. Where's Eugene Shoemaker when you need him? --Kyle [snip] I thought it *was* detected by someone paid to do exactly that? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Asteroid 2009 DD45
[snip] I thought it *was* detected by someone paid to do exactly that? Not paid very much it seems. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siding_Spring_Survey And someone else tracked it after the discovery by way of funding provided by The Planetary Society. This is not the scale of skywatch program we need. If people can scream about CO2 emissions, they damn sure ought to get a bit scared when a rock is discovered only 1.5 million miles away, heading basically right for us. What could we do in less than a week? With more advance notice, we might be able to do something. My guess is, asteroid defense doesn't make a ton of money for the select group, nor does it allow some people to control others. But all that aside, it is unquestionably important to do something about this. Rendezvous with Rama by the late Sir Arthur C. Clarke comes to mind. No, not suggesting that this was an alien spacecraft :) Just that the asteroid detection program was interesting. If during this financial mess we can monitor volcanoes (which we can do NOTHING about), we can watch the skies a little better. Ironic that moving a rock up there is much easier than stopping a volcano from erupting and possibly letting someone or some turbofan breathe in a bit of dust. On that note, it seems that birds and rubber boots have more dangerous effects on aircraft than some dust. I'd actually like Rick Monteverde's opinion on this as well...seeing as he is both near volcanoes, and near some of our best observatories. Rick? --Kyle
Re: [Vo]:Asteroid 2009 DD45
The only way we can realistically do anything is if we have technologies or friends that we don't generally admit to, I hold out no hope for a mission as in the movie Armageddon or lasers or... Though with a bit of foresight get Podkletnov of the job and he may be able to redirect it. On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Kyle Mcallister kyle_mcallis...@yahoo.comwrote: [snip] I thought it *was* detected by someone paid to do exactly that? Not paid very much it seems. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siding_Spring_Survey And someone else tracked it after the discovery by way of funding provided by The Planetary Society. This is not the scale of skywatch program we need. If people can scream about CO2 emissions, they damn sure ought to get a bit scared when a rock is discovered only 1.5 million miles away, heading basically right for us. What could we do in less than a week? With more advance notice, we might be able to do something. My guess is, asteroid defense doesn't make a ton of money for the select group, nor does it allow some people to control others. But all that aside, it is unquestionably important to do something about this. Rendezvous with Rama by the late Sir Arthur C. Clarke comes to mind. No, not suggesting that this was an alien spacecraft :) Just that the asteroid detection program was interesting. If during this financial mess we can monitor volcanoes (which we can do NOTHING about), we can watch the skies a little better. Ironic that moving a rock up there is much easier than stopping a volcano from erupting and possibly letting someone or some turbofan breathe in a bit of dust. On that note, it seems that birds and rubber boots have more dangerous effects on aircraft than some dust. I'd actually like Rick Monteverde's opinion on this as well...seeing as he is both near volcanoes, and near some of our best observatories. Rick? --Kyle
Re: [Vo]:Asteroid 2009 DD45
--- John Berry aethe...@gmail.com wrote: The only way we can realistically do anything is if we have technologies or friends that we don't generally admit to, I hold out no hope for a mission as in the movie Armageddon or lasers or... We can do it with nuclear weapons, either a direct impact surface detonation, or 'glancing blow' to shove the thing. Simple kinetic impactors would work as well, although the sooner we detect it (the main point I was making) the easier it is to change the thing's orbit with smaller amounts of kinetic energy applied. Read: less crap tossed at it, and possible at less velocity. We don't have the technology yet to deploy solar shields either, yet that isn't forbode discussion here. I'm not talking lasers or Armageddon, or even building an Orion-drive spacecraft as in Deep Impact to do something. I'm reciting things which we've known about and studied for decades on this subject. Though with a bit of foresight get Podkletnov of the job and he may be able to redirect it. We don't know what range the effect propagates out to. No one alive has successfully replicated his effect in a way that is accepted or would be accepted. Caveat: John Schnurer did make a device that works. I tested it. It does work, but it is tricky and very crude. But a 1-2% decrease in gravity, or a 0.5-3% increase in gravity is not really going to do much for you compared to lobbing a nuke or just a rocket hulk at the rock. Another thing: if you're referring to Podkletnov's 'beam' experiments, there's not enough writeup for me to comment. John didn't tell me much about that, as I guess Podkletnov and he had some disagreement...apparently Podkletnov thought John's device couldn't possibly work as the disk didn't rotate. (the fields did) 1 2 3 2 1 2 3 2 1 2 3 2 1.and so on. Given that I've now made a couple nice power supplies, maybe I should do some tests of the Morton effect. I don't have a sphere terminal. Maybe a stainless steel soup pot will work? :) --Kyle
Re: [Vo]:Asteroid 2009 DD45
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Kyle Mcallister kyle_mcallis...@yahoo.comwrote: --- John Berry aethe...@gmail.com wrote: The only way we can realistically do anything is if we have technologies or friends that we don't generally admit to, I hold out no hope for a mission as in the movie Armageddon or lasers or... We can do it with nuclear weapons, either a direct impact surface detonation, or 'glancing blow' to shove the thing. I don't rule out the plausibility of that. What I rule out is that a mission can be started in time. The physics of it are straight forward and manageable with our level of technology however the level of readiness would be fatal. It would require better organization and immediate resources without cares for funding or budget and I'm sorry but that doesn't sound like any place I know of who can launch a rocket. I guess it depends on the warning but most of these warnings seem to be rather short, if we had a good number on months I would like the odds better. Simple kinetic impactors would work as well, although the sooner we detect it (the main point I was making) the easier it is to change the thing's orbit with smaller amounts of kinetic energy applied. Read: less crap tossed at it, and possible at less velocity. We don't have the technology yet to deploy solar shields either, yet that isn't forbode discussion here. I'm not talking lasers or Armageddon, or even building an Orion-drive spacecraft as in Deep Impact to do something. I'm reciting things which we've known about and studied for decades on this subject. Though with a bit of foresight get Podkletnov of the job and he may be able to redirect it. We don't know what range the effect propagates out to. No one alive has successfully replicated his effect in a way that is accepted or would be accepted. IMO morton had the same effect, the distance it works to is significant and could only be hoped to work at greater disrances. Caveat: John Schnurer did make a device that works. I tested it. It does work, but it is tricky and very crude. But a 1-2% decrease in gravity, or a 0.5-3% increase in gravity is not really going to do much for you compared to lobbing a nuke or just a rocket hulk at the rock. Another thing: if you're referring to Podkletnov's 'beam' experiments, I was there's not enough writeup for me to comment. John didn't tell me much about that, as I guess Podkletnov and he had some disagreement...apparently Podkletnov thought John's device couldn't possibly work as the disk didn't rotate. (the fields did) 1 2 3 2 1 2 3 2 1 2 3 2 1.and so on. Given that I've now made a couple nice power supplies, maybe I should do some tests of the Morton effect. I don't have a sphere terminal. Maybe a stainless steel soup pot will work? :) --Kyle
Re: [Vo]:Asteroid 2009 DD45
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, John Berry aethe...@gmail.com mounted the barricade and roared out: The physics of it are straight forward and manageable with our level of technology however the level of readiness would be fatal. It would require better organization and immediate resources without cares for funding or budget and I'm sorry but that doesn't sound like any place I know of who can launch a rocket. I know most of you don't want to hear it, but that facts of the matter actually are that, as long as the Filthy Rich are siphoning off their claims on all our past, present and future resources into their offshore accounts, etc., there will never be the resources available to do much of anything worthwhile. Like saving the Earth. - -- grok. - -- *** FULL-SPECTRUM FIGHTBACK! *** * In advance of the Revolution: * Get facts get organized * * Fight the Man! * thru these sites movements * * http://www.washingtonstakeout.comWashington Stakeout * * http://therealnews.com The Real News * * http://www.AE911truth.org Architects Engineers for 9/11 Truth * * http://seaccp.org Seattle Community Colocation Project * * http://aktivix.org Aktivix - Linux for Activists * * http://www.autistici.org Autistici * * http://boum.org boum.org * NEW-WORLD-ORDER-SPEAK: Law Order == Police State GPG fingerprint = 2E7F 2D69 4B0B C8D5 07E3 09C3 5E8D C4B4 461B B771 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkm0ftgACgkQXo3EtEYbt3FijwCffxqpHadj1dn46gakOwHOOd1v 5PsAnigJjQN8cNWeJSy3uCdDtg7yUjNd =lvQF -END PGP SIGNATURE-
[Vo]:Asteroid 2009 DD45
Asteroid 2009 DD45 had a 48,000 mile close call March 2, 2009. What has not explicitly been said AFAIK is whether or not that was within a window that can establish a resonant return, i.e. a direct hit on a return fly by. Perhaps it is too soon to know due to the near earth gravitational anomalies. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
