Re: [Vo]:News from Japan
Sorry for the late post, but I am now about 400 articles behind on my reading. On Jun 14, 2008, at 6:54 AM, Jones Beene wrote: [snip] 5) There is a mystery ingredient which needs to be replenished periodically. Unlike the gallium-aluminum process from Purdue University, recently announced which does split water: http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/05/16/purdue-professor-on-the- aluminum-enabling-hydrogen-economy/ this one (reportedly) does not rapidly consume the secret ingredient. ... which could be a catalyst for redundant ground states ... or not. It will be interesting to see what happens... Jones The above article states: Woodall says that the reaction of aluminum with water has the same energy content per unit weight of oil, about 20,000 BTUs or about 6 kWh per pound That's a fairly rapid consumption rate, and reminds me of a post I made here in 2002, which follows. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [From the initiating article of the thread: Down with hydrogen economy, up with aluminum economy] On Feb 6, 2002, at 4:22 AM, Horace Heffner wrote: Here is some fuel for thought! 8^) The CRC Handbook gives the Gibbs energy of formation for Al2O3 and H2O in kJ/mol as follows: Al2O3: -1582.3 kJ/mol H2O:-228.6 kJ/mol Given atomic weight of Al is 26.98, and H is 1.007, we have the following output per gram of input for the two fuels: Al2O3: (-1582.3 kJ/mol)/(2 * 26.98g/mol) = 29.32 kJ/g H2O:(-228.6 kJ/mol)/(2 * 1.007g/mol) = 113.5 J/g Though only about 1/4 as efficient as hydrogen for energy storage by weight, aluminum is far easier and safer to store and transport, and 29.32 kJ/g, or 30 MJ/kg, is very acceptable. At 7.14 g/cm^2 density, Al provides (30 kJ/g)/(7.14 g/cm^3) = 4.11 kJ/cm^3, or 4.11 MJ per liter of Al, a very acceptable amount. That's 1.14 kWh, or 1.52 hp hours, enough to run a 1.52 hp motor for an hour. At a typical 7 hp cruising speed that is a fuel consumption of (7 hp)/(1.52 hp h/l) = 5 l/hr. If the vehicle maintains 50 mph, then the fuel consumption is (50 mi)/(5 l) = 10 miles per liter of fuel. A 100 mile fillup would consist of 10 liters of fuel, or 71.4 kg of fuel. If we obtain the energy from the aluminum by pyrolisis, then we have the side benefit of obtaining hydrogen for either immediate recombination with air, or for temporary high pressure storage. Electrolysis, a bit mysteriously, seems to work just as well, or even better, in terms of mol/amp and mol/J, at high pressures as at low pressure. Using pyrolisis also permits us to more directly obtain energy from breaking and to convert it to heat, which can be used to drive a motor for charging a battery, and to produce high pressure hydrogen for storage. Since the pyrolisis of Al removes the oxygen from water, the hydrogen is evolved at the rate of 3 mols of H per mol of Al, thus 3(-228.6 kJ/ mol) is produced for each (-1582.3 kJ/mol) of Al, or an extra 685.8 kJ per 1582.3 kJ produced from Al oxidation, or an about 43.3 percent extra energy from the evolved hydrogen. This raises the apparent energy output of the Al to 41.93 kJ/g. All the heat produced in a well insulated pyrolisis cell, including resistance heat from the electrolysis current, is converted to either steam or evolved gas. If effective use of the steam can be made to drive an engine, then the process should be very efficient for transportation purposes. Energy tapped off the output to drive the pyrolisis would be fed back to the input side. The vehicle efficiency then depends fully on the efficiency of the steam engine or sterling engine employed. The powdered aluminum oxide effluent that is produced can be filtered and collected for recycling at fill-up stations. Magnesium would work too, but is toxic, and berylium would provide more kJ's per gram, and the largest MJ/m^3 of any chemical fuel, but is toxic. Aluminum is common. Even aluminum cans can be recycled into fuel. Up with the aluminum economy! Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:News from Japan
Jones Beene wrote: This blogster apparently is taking a comical view of it: http://icantseeyou.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/06/genepax-unveils-a-car-that-generates-electricity-with-only-water-air.html However, other sources say the output is only 300 watts, and that the power unit was shown openly at a trade show recently. A reactive metal is used to split the water - but is consumed very slowly. Very confusing... and they do NOT claim overunity, so do not get too excited. Consumable metals will not be a viable way to get hydrogen, if that is what it is. Not quite Aluminium has almost as much potential as petrol or ethanol so if they are oxidising the metal and then can swap the cell out daily with a new one regenerating the cell with a renewable energy it could in theory work. But these guys from japan aren't close if 300 wats is all they have. I can do better with store bought al foil and sodium hydroxide. Youtube has a half dozen demos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7FmrOatEEAfeature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7FmrOatEEAfeature=related Is this the only guy on youtube that thinks to ware gloves?!? A safe design under the hood and solar powered aluminum reduction would be interesting. Aluminium air batteries are on the cards and zinc air and nickel zinc are here today. http://www.evionyx.com/ That would mean that even if your let it charge for 23 hours plus out of every day, that the ~7 kW is not much to use - and you could barely get to the corner grocery store and back before draining a battery. --- Jones Beene wrote: Not to be outdone by the GMs Volt Could be a major breakthrough ...or not http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/13/genepax-shows-off-water-powered-fuel-cell-vehicle/
Re: [Vo]:News from Japan
Before you get excited about aluminum batteries, do a *life cycle check*. Aluminum is plentiful as its oxide. Purifying it is done by electrolysis, using *lots* of electrical energy for refineries next to hydroelectric plants. Mike Carrell === - Original Message - From: Wesley Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 2:56 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:News from Japan Jones Beene wrote: This blogster apparently is taking a comical view of it: http://icantseeyou.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/06/genepax-unveils-a-car-that-generates-electricity-with-only-water-air.html However, other sources say the output is only 300 watts, and that the power unit was shown openly at a trade show recently. A reactive metal is used to split the water - but is consumed very slowly. Very confusing... and they do NOT claim overunity, so do not get too excited. Consumable metals will not be a viable way to get hydrogen, if that is what it is. Not quite Aluminium has almost as much potential as petrol or ethanol so if they are oxidising the metal and then can swap the cell out daily with a new one regenerating the cell with a renewable energy it could in theory work. But these guys from japan aren't close if 300 wats is all they have. I can do better with store bought al foil and sodium hydroxide. Youtube has a half dozen demos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7FmrOatEEAfeature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7FmrOatEEAfeature=related Is this the only guy on youtube that thinks to ware gloves?!? A safe design under the hood and solar powered aluminum reduction would be interesting. Aluminium air batteries are on the cards and zinc air and nickel zinc are here today. http://www.evionyx.com/ That would mean that even if your let it charge for 23 hours plus out of every day, that the ~7 kW is not much to use - and you could barely get to the corner grocery store and back before draining a battery. --- Jones Beene wrote: Not to be outdone by the GMs Volt Could be a major breakthrough ...or not http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/13/genepax-shows-off-water-powered-fuel-cell-vehicle/ This Email has been scanned for all viruses by Medford Leas I.T. Department.
Re: [Vo]:News from Japan
Jones Beene wrote: Not to be outdone by the GMs Volt Could be a major breakthrough ...or not http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/13/genepax-shows-off-water-powered-fuel-cell-vehicle/ This only makes sense if the electrolysis unit is burning the metal in them. The metals oxidize and liberate hydrogen from the water. The electrolysis unit should only last a few days or weeks . The inventors public statements indicate that while they expect the unit to last about 4.5 years they have not run one for more than a few days.
Re: [Vo]:News from Japan
Jones Beene wrote: Not to be outdone by the GMs Volt Could be a major breakthrough ...or not http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/13/genepax-shows-off-water-powered-fuel-cell-vehicle/ Why is the driver of the jap thing wearing a hockey mask??? Which horror film rerun is he going to?
Re: [Vo]:News from Japan
Big Correction (retraction) -- in this paper: http://www.hydrino.org/Labs/Final-Report-Nascent-Hydrogen.pdf The previous suggestion was wildly incorrect, since the connection of an anomaly in ionization potential to a an exploitable energy gap cannot be made, via triggered oscillations AFAIK. Yet it did bring in email as to why anyone would believe this and not Stanley Meyer! On reread, it is not clear precisely what I was thinking yesterday when this was written, although at the time there seemed to be a possible tie-in to Thermacore (other than trying to shoehorn something useful into Terry's suggestion) - apologies for that. OTOH - this is not to say that there could not still be something to it- only that a putative ZPE pump would probably not be related directly to a presumed gap or anomaly in the measured IP of this reactant -- over what it should be - that is: if it were to be related to multiples of 13.6 eV. At least I have not been able to find any rational suggestion in the literature of such relationship. Now. Going much further into the subject of water fuel and the desire of millions of people to see this emerging technology as an alternative to oil (yes, I am guilty of that desire as well). My initial bad-posting on the thermacore paper detail is now out in cyberspace and in the archives (even though now retracted) but is the kind of disinformation which can snowball - and get blown into something far-more than the dead end streets it is. The prime example is Stanley Meyer. I mention him as the best modern example of how misguided but well-meaning people and their followers (who are basing everything on merging science and religion) get caught up into irrationality. First, there is not a single scintilla of scientific evidence of overunity in anything the man did. Not one. Running a dune buggy for 20 minutes at a time on what is said to be water fuel is easily explainable as a mundane utilization of crankcase oil in that kind of engine. 40 years ago, I had a VW beetle that could hardly be turned-off due to residual oil-burning and an overdue ring job. If it had an electrolyzer attached back then, it too could have been run for 20 minutes on no gasoline. Yet I still get cranky email from Meyer disciples - over the prior claim in the vortex archives that his death was natural and not evidence of suppression. Jed Rothwell may get the same kind of cranky mail since he agreed with that detail and went further. It is almost an article of faith with some younger folks out there that Meyer was murdered by some nebulous group (a group that apparently only goes after washed-out inventors, designers of magic carburettors and scam artists. Because of the one video on YouTube, where Stanley claims to be walking with angels or whatever, and it is a pretty well-done slick video - and one which has been watched by tens of thousands of impressionable young people - this guy has been elevated almost to sainthood. But, in contrast he is closer to misguided nut-case than to saint in the eyes of science, and for good reason: Zero data ! Advice: get out there and get *good data* first, and then write your cranky email. I can say all of this AND at the same time opine that it might really be possible to engineer the Meyer or Brown's gas type of WFC into a Mizuno, LENR or hydrino-augmented water splitter which would be overunity !! There is no conflict in these positions. And I can even opine that yes, Meyer could conceivably have done this already, or Yull Brown - BUT - there is not the least bit of evidence that they did do it. i.e. zero data. You would think by now that one of his true believer disciples would have validated some tiny bit of OU with his device, except for one little problem. They may be good mechanics and garage tinkerers but they don't do science, and have not taken the time to read-up on the controversial and cutting-edge enhancements to the WFC like LENR or the Mills' hydrino. Small (but important) difference there in POV, and I hope the people sending me hatemail on the Meyer sainthood will get a life - no - better yet: get a WFC and engineer it to use hydrinos or Mizuno LENR etc- and next get good *reliable data* to prove that your crucified messiah really did pull-off this miracle... Jones
Re: [Vo]:News from Japan
RUMOR CENTRAL Take the following with a grain of sodium hydride... oops make that sodium chloride ;-) Coming on the heels of BLP's recent announcement of a solid fuel power plant ... does this development represent oneupsmanship from our friends to the East? Is there a hidden agenda or strategy behind it? Is the Japanese auto industry secretly involved? I could not help but notice several things - from all the info (mostly anecdotal) that I have been able to gather from sending out about a hundred emails to friends-of-friends and associates-of-associates (only two responses so far): 1) this story is real, and probably represents a unit recently on display at a trade show - which splits water, generating H2 and O2 - which gases are then immediately recombined in an adjoining fuel cell but at significantly OU -- which is in the same range as BLP (almost) claims to have seen (COP = 40). The last part is inference based on how long the catalyst lasts. 2) It is a very small output device- and they have possibly gotten it up to 500 watts electrical, from 300. 3) The company seems to have come out of nowhere, but some of the staff mysteriously has connections with the Japanese auto industry. 4) The system (2 linked devices) was looked at, but initially turned-down (apparently) by some heavy hitters (Mitsubishi ??) and that is possibly because they have already licensed something similar from elsewhere or are close to having their own LENR reactor... or else they want to see what kind of legal reaction this generates in the USA. 5) There is a mystery ingredient which needs to be replenished periodically. Unlike the gallium-aluminum process from Purdue University, recently announced which does split water: http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/05/16/purdue-professor-on-the-aluminum-enabling-hydrogen-economy/ this one (reportedly) does not rapidly consume the secret ingredient. ... which could be a catalyst for redundant ground states ... or not. It will be interesting to see what happens... Jones
Re: [Vo]:News from Japan
On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 9:54 AM, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It will be interesting to see what happens... They promise an announcement in english soon: http://genepax.co.jp/en/index.html Maybe Jed would look at the Japanese version and see if he can gleam any additional information: http://genepax.co.jp/ Terry
Re: [Vo]:News from Japan
This site: http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20080613/153276/ says it uses a membrane electrode: The basic power generation mechanism of the new system is similar to that of a normal fuel cell, which uses hydrogen as a fuel. According to Genepax, the main feature of the new system is that it uses the company's membrane electrode assembly (MEA), which contains a material capable of breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen through a chemical reaction. Though the company did not reveal the details, it succeeded in adopting a well-known process to produce hydrogen from water to the MEA, said Hirasawa Kiyoshi, the company's president. This process is allegedly similar to the mechanism that produces hydrogen by a reaction of metal hydride and water. But compared with the existing method, the new process is expected to produce hydrogen from water for longer time, the company said. more On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 9:54 AM, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: RUMOR CENTRAL Take the following with a grain of sodium hydride... oops make that sodium chloride ;-) Coming on the heels of BLP's recent announcement of a solid fuel power plant ... does this development represent oneupsmanship from our friends to the East? Is there a hidden agenda or strategy behind it? Is the Japanese auto industry secretly involved? I could not help but notice several things - from all the info (mostly anecdotal) that I have been able to gather from sending out about a hundred emails to friends-of-friends and associates-of-associates (only two responses so far): 1) this story is real, and probably represents a unit recently on display at a trade show - which splits water, generating H2 and O2 - which gases are then immediately recombined in an adjoining fuel cell but at significantly OU -- which is in the same range as BLP (almost) claims to have seen (COP = 40). The last part is inference based on how long the catalyst lasts. 2) It is a very small output device- and they have possibly gotten it up to 500 watts electrical, from 300. 3) The company seems to have come out of nowhere, but some of the staff mysteriously has connections with the Japanese auto industry. 4) The system (2 linked devices) was looked at, but initially turned-down (apparently) by some heavy hitters (Mitsubishi ??) and that is possibly because they have already licensed something similar from elsewhere or are close to having their own LENR reactor... or else they want to see what kind of legal reaction this generates in the USA. 5) There is a mystery ingredient which needs to be replenished periodically. Unlike the gallium-aluminum process from Purdue University, recently announced which does split water: http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/05/16/purdue-professor-on-the-aluminum-enabling-hydrogen-economy/ this one (reportedly) does not rapidly consume the secret ingredient. ... which could be a catalyst for redundant ground states ... or not. It will be interesting to see what happens... Jones
Re: [Vo]:News from Japan
--- Terry Blanton wrote: This site: http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20080613/153276/ says it uses a membrane electrode: The company president is Hirasawa Kiyoshi. Googling that name, here are patents issued, mostly in unrelated fields (still looking) but some of them in automotive are assigned to Suzuki Motor company. Suzuki and General Motors have a strategic alliance- they have grown very rapidly in recent years. The basic power generation mechanism of the new system is similar to that of a normal fuel cell, which uses hydrogen as a fuel. According to Genepax, the main feature of the new system is that it uses the company's membrane electrode assembly (MEA), which contains a material capable of breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen through a chemical reaction. That would indicate that the hydrogen generator and the fuel cell are physically combined into a single unit, no? Very interesting! Perhaps they pulse the fuel cell in reverse polarity (so called tickler mode) and then collect a greater current going back. If done sequentially this could operate something like a variation of the old Grove Cell which was both a battery, fuel cell and H2 generator in one, depending on many variables. Very, very interesting! Jones
Re: [Vo]:News from Japan
Terry ...speaking of a membrane electrode in the context of a possible shrunken-hydrogen ... ...thinking aloud: protons are conducted by many metals like palladium and plastics (PEM) which are used in fuel cells; but it takes lots of chemical energy to create ions (protons) for the *single use* in the fuel-cell (FC) and the normal FC membrane surface area must be large. In the case of a hydrino - and Mills has claimed that batteries can be made from them, the active ion particle is (or can be) reuseable, and as a stable hydride ion (Mills' claim), it would be like a battery which transfers charge on demand but without needing a corresponding chemical reaction to provide the emf. How can that be? it still needs a virtual emf from somewhere - so is there a way to make Hy- ions go two-way instead of one way using lesser energy? Maybe, and looking at the image on this page: http://genepax.co.jp/mechanism/mechanism.html ... it seems that this reversible transfer could perhaps be done with a third electrode and a time lag? ERGO the metaphor of a triode membrane - does it seems to you like there is an extra set of layers in there ? Not that genepax would necessarily make such an image accurate or anything like that ... still it is very interesting and bizzare. (as is their chosen name) BTW - in past speculation, it has been suggested by me that the ultimate source of energy for hydrinos is most likely to be ZPE and NOT orbital shrinkage. ZPE would be increasingly intense and possibly unbalanced in the tight picometer geometry of redundant ground states. Mills himself does not believe in ZPE. Too bad for him, since if that is indeed the active source of energy, it will probably deny BLP any kind of patent coverage except for very specific devices, and this may not be one of them. Jones
Re: [Vo]:News from Japan
On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BTW - in past speculation, it has been suggested by me that the ultimate source of energy for hydrinos is most likely to be ZPE and NOT orbital shrinkage. ZPE would be increasingly intense and possibly unbalanced in the tight picometer geometry of redundant ground states. Maybe it's both? The orbitsphere in a reduced orbit would restrict the modes of penetrable ZPE photons a la Casimir. Suppose there is an orbital level whereby the energy absorbed by the shrunken orbit is slightly greater that what is required to push the electron out back to the next fractional energy state with enough left over to emit a photon. The orbitsphere might oscillate between these states radiating every half cycle. A half-wave ZPE rectifier? Naa, too bizarre. Terry
Re: [Vo]:News from Japan
On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Terry Blanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A half-wave ZPE rectifier? Naa, too bizarre. And poorly written. Can the Casimir force cause an electron to collapse into a lower energy state at some lower orbit thus causing an oscillation between two fractional orbits with photon emission due to nothing but ZPE? I'm guessing the geometry of a hydrogen nucleus surrounded by an orbiting electron could be modeled as a spherical capacitor. Terry
Re: [Vo]:News from Japan
On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe, and looking at the image on this page: http://genepax.co.jp/mechanism/mechanism.html ... it seems that this reversible transfer could perhaps be done with a third electrode and a time lag? ERGO the metaphor of a triode membrane Yes. Where's Rothwell? Terry
Re: [Vo]:News from Japan
Terry Blanton wrote: This site: http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20080613/153276/ says it uses a membrane electrode: The basic power generation mechanism of the new system is similar to that of a normal fuel cell, which uses hydrogen as a fuel. According to Genepax, the main feature of the new system is that it uses the company's membrane electrode assembly (MEA), which contains a material capable of breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen through a chemical reaction. Though the company did not reveal the details, it succeeded in adopting a well-known process to produce hydrogen from water to the MEA, said Hirasawa Kiyoshi, the company's president. This process is allegedly similar to the mechanism that produces hydrogen by a reaction of metal hydride and water. Does this not make it sound like the real fuel is the metal hydride (or component they're using in place of a hydride)? If the reaction can be reversed then it would seem like they've produced a sort of weird storage battery. If it can't be reversed then I have a hard time seeing where this might lead. But compared with the existing method, the new process is expected to produce hydrogen from water for longer time, the company said. a longer time -- not indefinitely -- suggests, again, that the fuel is hydride (or its replacement). more On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 9:54 AM, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: RUMOR CENTRAL Take the following with a grain of sodium hydride... oops make that sodium chloride ;-) Coming on the heels of BLP's recent announcement of a solid fuel power plant ... does this development represent oneupsmanship from our friends to the East? Is there a hidden agenda or strategy behind it? Is the Japanese auto industry secretly involved? I could not help but notice several things - from all the info (mostly anecdotal) that I have been able to gather from sending out about a hundred emails to friends-of-friends and associates-of-associates (only two responses so far): 1) this story is real, and probably represents a unit recently on display at a trade show - which splits water, generating H2 and O2 - which gases are then immediately recombined in an adjoining fuel cell but at significantly OU -- which is in the same range as BLP (almost) claims to have seen (COP = 40). The last part is inference based on how long the catalyst lasts. 2) It is a very small output device- and they have possibly gotten it up to 500 watts electrical, from 300. 3) The company seems to have come out of nowhere, but some of the staff mysteriously has connections with the Japanese auto industry. 4) The system (2 linked devices) was looked at, but initially turned-down (apparently) by some heavy hitters (Mitsubishi ??) and that is possibly because they have already licensed something similar from elsewhere or are close to having their own LENR reactor... or else they want to see what kind of legal reaction this generates in the USA. 5) There is a mystery ingredient which needs to be replenished periodically. Unlike the gallium-aluminum process from Purdue University, recently announced which does split water: http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/05/16/purdue-professor-on-the-aluminum-enabling-hydrogen-economy/ this one (reportedly) does not rapidly consume the secret ingredient. ... which could be a catalyst for redundant ground states ... or not. It will be interesting to see what happens... Jones
Re: [Vo]:News from Japan
--- Terry Blanton wrote: Maybe it's both? The orbitsphere in a reduced orbit would restrict the modes of penetrable ZPE photons a la Casimir. Suppose there is an orbital level whereby the energy absorbed by the shrunken orbit is slightly greater that what is required to push the electron out back to the next fractional energy state with enough left over to emit a photon. The orbitsphere might oscillate between these states radiating every half cycle... A half-wave ZPE rectifier? Naa, too bizarre. Funny you should mention that. While re-reading the paper (fabulous paper BTW) which I recommended to Jeff Driscoll, it was curious to find that another team at Lehigh measured the IP (ionization potential) of the anomalous particle at 55 eV(atomic weight of ~2 but not consistent with H2 nor He). At first, I was thinking that this was probably because their equipment did not resolve fractional eV very accurately, since it should have measured 54.4 eV if we assume that we must keep it to multiples of 13.6. But now that you mention this ... hmmm. That should 'round-off' down to 54 instead of 55, arguably. S ... let's see you get these weird particles embedded in the tubes that are much smaller than a molecule, but are not atoms, and the 2 electrons are very tightly bound. The electrons swap nuclei like like all electrons are wont to do -- and probably think that they should attract either nucleus at 54.4 eV but instead they oscillate up to 55 eV when at rest. Then if some energy is added, perhaps they begin to oscillate due to ZPE frequencies providing the Casimir-like pressure force against them ? And since it is not one nucleus but two, that irregularity in symmetry is what keeps the pump going. BTW - this spread of .6 eV looks to be a band-gap equivalent of about 2 microns and therefore this emergent hypothesis - could be easily falsifiable as almost any photocell will pick it up ! A ZPE pump in disguise ... has a nice ring to it, no? Guess its a bit premature to contact Hal Puthoff just yet, but hey -- we may be onto something valid here, Randy Mills notwithstanding ;-) Jones
Re: [Vo]:News from Japan
Meant to say: in this paper: http://www.hydrino.org/Labs/Final-Report-Nascent-Hydrogen.pdf ... what you find are particles embedded in the tubes that are much smaller than a molecule, but are not atoms, and the 2 electrons are very tightly bound. The electrons swap nuclei, often in little figure-8 loops like QM electrons are wont to do -- and probably think that they should attract to either of the nuclei at 54.4 eV - which they do when at ambient. Then - if some energy is added, perhaps they begin to oscillate up to 55 eV due to ZPE frequencies providing the Casimir-like pressure against them. The energy which needs be added - in order to start the oscillations (prime the pump) could be much less than the .6 eV which is radiated - and which BTW is pretty damned hot for an electrolysis cell except that the population of them is low. These photons will not split water, but they could make it much easier. Jones
[Vo]:News from Japan
Not to be outdone by the GMs Volt Could be a major breakthrough ...or not http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/13/genepax-shows-off-water-powered-fuel-cell-vehicle/
Re: [Vo]:News from Japan
This blogster apparently is taking a comical view of it: http://icantseeyou.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/06/genepax-unveils-a-car-that-generates-electricity-with-only-water-air.html However, other sources say the output is only 300 watts, and that the power unit was shown openly at a trade show recently. A reactive metal is used to split the water - but is consumed very slowly. Very confusing... and they do NOT claim overunity, so do not get too excited. Consumable metals will not be a viable way to get hydrogen, if that is what it is. That would mean that even if your let it charge for 23 hours plus out of every day, that the ~7 kW is not much to use - and you could barely get to the corner grocery store and back before draining a battery. --- Jones Beene wrote: Not to be outdone by the GMs Volt Could be a major breakthrough ...or not http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/13/genepax-shows-off-water-powered-fuel-cell-vehicle/
Re: [Vo]:News from Japan
Jones sez: On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This blogster apparently is taking a comical view of it: http://icantseeyou.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/06/genepax-unveils-a-car-that-generates-electricity-with-only-water-air.html http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/13/genepax-shows-off-water-powered-fuel-cell-vehicle/ Good Grief! Jayson is driving the car! Be afraid. Be very afraid! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
