RE: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment

[Jones Beene]

From: torulf.gr...@bredband.net 

Ø  Having titanium hydride as hydrogen carrier may not be so good because the 
H2 will come to an equilibrium between Ti and Ni. And the H loading will be 
lower.

Yes, but loading does not matter, and a state of dynamic equilibrium between Ti 
and Ni is precisely the mechanism which could be gainful in another context 
(instead of fusion). The parameter of lower loading is “not good” for deuterium 
and especially Pd-D. Ahern’s replication of Arata is notable for showing that 
with protium, as opposed to deuterium – there is no valid correlation between 
loading and thermal gain. There is a correlation with deuterium.

Because of the ultra-fast mobility of protons, what is hoped is that there will 
be a pathway to gain via phase change asymmetry between the titanium, nickel 
and iron which is boosted by tunneling. Think of nitinol and other phase change 
anomalies. The underlying source of that gain is not really relevant now, just 
the proximate cause. Proton mobility is suggested to be an accurate indicator 
of quantum tunneling and we want to maximize that.

When TiH2 along with the filamentary nickel are in the same fuel mix with the 
iron oxide, the local magnetic field effects from the coil result in moving 
protons around between titanium, nickel and iron in a way which access Rydberg 
ionization “hole”. There is an underappreciated phenomenon in water called 
“proton hopping” which could occur in such a system. This citation has some 
information on proton hopping:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grotthuss_mechanism

At any rate – this was the underlying rationale for using TiH2 - which thus far 
is looking like it could be valid since some gain was seen with what appears to 
be too little TiH2. Hopefully better results will follow.

Jones

 

Re: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment

[torulf.greek]

Having titanium hydride as hydrogen carrier may not be so good
because the H2 will come to an equilibrium between Ti and Ni. And the H
lading will be lesser. 

Better is to pre load the Ni. 

On Tue, 10 Feb
2015 15:42:01 +, Bob Cook  wrote:   

Dave, Jack, etal-- 

I concur
with Dave's comment. You want negative temperature feedback, at least in
the range of temperatures you want to operate. The same idea is used in
the dynamics and control of slow neutron, water cooled fission reactors.
The objective in this reactor is to keep the flux of slow neutrons
constant with power requirements. More neutron flux provides more power
and higher coolant temperatures. As temperatures increase more power can
be withdrawn from the coolant leading to a larger differential
temperature across the reactor. The cooler portion of the reactor
produce more power than the warmer portions because a lower energy
neutron has a better chance of causing fission in U-235 than the higher
energy ones (hotter ones).  

However one objective for the neutron flux
(which is a spectrum of slow and fast neutrons) is to assure the fast
neutrons do not get the upper hand on power generation and cause a
prompt criticality and a runaway reaction. Fast neutrons have a very
short time constant for their multiplication and are not able to be
effectively controlled once prompt criticality occurs.  

This analogous
situation may occur in the MFMP reactor. The controlling parameter
resonant responses of the NAR to temperature or some other variable, for
example, wave nature of the Li g Cookas and/or the hydrogen gas needs to
be determined and then controlled. That is the development objective for
any viable reactor that I think Rossi has achieved.. 

Bob Cook 

Sent
from Windows Mail 

FROM: Jones Beene [1]
SENT: ‎Monday‎, ‎February‎
‎9‎, ‎2015 ‎11‎:‎03‎ ‎AM
TO: vortex-l@eskimo.com [2]  

Couple of more
details of interest: the hydrogen release of TiH2 starts at 350 C but
the compound is a poor storage material for hydrogen, as a general rule,
since the last hydrogen will not be removed easily. However… hydrogen
transport could be less important than "participation" in the reaction …
Here is an old paper which indicates that titanium itself is very active
for LENR, so it would be the ideal carrier for hydrogen which also
participates in the gain. 


http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/DashJexcessheat.pdf [3] 

Simply use
more of it. It is inexpensive. The magnitude of excess heat is said in
the paper above to be greater for titanium than for palladium ! 

FROM:
David Roberson  

That is good Jack. Perhaps it is less intuitive but it
captures the behavior of these types of devices very well. If the slope
enters a negative region then the positive thermal feedback wins the
battle and the device heats up rapidly. The curve also will indicate
whether or not a second high temperature region of stable operation is
present.

Your present design would be classified as a type 1 system in
my analysis since the slope of that curve never enters into a negative
region. Once you push it into a type 2 or 3 system the fireworks will
begin. That is where Dr. Parkhomov is operating with his latest version
that is somewhat insulated. It is going to take a lot of effort and good
design for him to keep these stable.

I modeled this curve according to
the behavior of a tunnel diode. Since the voltage is analogous to the
temperature and the power input analogous to the current it makes
perfect sense. You can determine how to design tunnel diode oscillators
or switches from that basic curve. I see the same thing happening with
these LENR devices. I also realize excellent correlation to my previous
computer models.

Dave 



Links:
--
[1]
mailto:jone...@pacbell.net
[2] mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com
[3]
http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/DashJexcessheat.pdf

Re: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment

[Bob Cook]

Dave, Jack, etal--



I concur with Dave’s comment.  You want negative temperature feedback, at least 
in the range of temperatures you want to operate.  The same idea is used in the 
dynamics and control of slow neutron, water cooled fission reactors.  The 
objective in this reactor is to keep the flux of slow neutrons constant with 
power requirements.  More neutron flux provides more power and higher coolant 
temperatures.  As temperatures increase more power can be withdrawn from the 
coolant leading to a larger  differential temperature across the reactor.  The 
cooler portion of the reactor produce more power than the warmer portions 
because a lower energy neutron has a better chance of causing fission in U-235 
than the higher energy ones (hotter ones).  


However one objective for the neutron flux (which is a spectrum of slow and 
fast neutrons) is to assure the fast neutrons do not get the upper hand on 
power generation and cause a prompt criticality and a runaway reaction.  Fast 
neutrons have a very short time constant for their multiplication and are not 
able to be effectively controlled once prompt criticality occurs.  


This analogous situation may occur in the MFMP reactor.  The controlling 
parameter resonant responses of the NAR to temperature or some other variable, 
for example, wave nature of the Li g Cookas and/or the hydrogen gas  needs to 
be determined and then controlled.  That is the development objective for any 
viable reactor that I think Rossi has achieved..


Bob Cook



Sent from Windows Mail





From: Jones Beene
Sent: ‎Monday‎, ‎February‎ ‎9‎, ‎2015 ‎11‎:‎03‎ ‎AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com






 

Couple of more details of interest: the hydrogen release of TiH2 starts at 350 
C but the compound is a poor storage material for hydrogen, as a general rule, 
since the last hydrogen will not be removed easily. However… hydrogen transport 
could be less important than “participation” in the reaction …  Here is an old 
paper which indicates that titanium itself is very active for LENR, so it would 
be the ideal carrier for hydrogen which also participates in the gain. 

 

http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/DashJexcessheat.pdf

 

Simply use more of it. It is inexpensive. The magnitude of excess heat is said 
in the paper above to be greater for titanium than for palladium !

 

 

From: David Roberson 

 

That is good Jack.  Perhaps it is less intuitive but it captures the behavior 
of these types of devices very well.  If the slope enters a negative region 
then the positive thermal feedback wins the battle and the device heats up 
rapidly.  The curve also will indicate whether or not a second high temperature 
region of stable operation is present.

Your present design would be classified as a type 1 system in my analysis since 
the slope of that curve never enters into a negative region.  Once you push it 
into a type 2 or 3 system the fireworks will begin.  That is where Dr. 
Parkhomov is operating with his latest version that is somewhat insulated.  It 
is going to take a lot of effort and good design for him to keep these stable.

I modeled this curve according to the behavior of a tunnel diode.  Since the 
voltage is analogous to the temperature and the power input analogous to the 
current it makes perfect sense.  You can determine how to design tunnel diode 
oscillators or switches from that basic curve.  I see the same thing happening 
with these LENR devices.  I also realize excellent correlation to my previous 
computer models.

Dave

Re: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment

[David Roberson]

In this case I am thinking of long term operation where the initial heating 
becomes insignificant with time.  A short term test would need to consider the 
heating up.

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: H Veeder 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Mon, Feb 9, 2015 2:07 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment


Does the COP include the energy of pre-heating?
Harry
On Feb 9, 2015 1:48 PM, "David Roberson"  wrote:

That is good Jack.  Perhaps it is less intuitive but it captures the behavior 
of these types of devices very well.  If the slope enters a negative region 
then the positive thermal feedback wins the battle and the device heats up 
rapidly.  The curve also will indicate whether or not a second high temperature 
region of stable operation is present.

Your present design would be classified as a type 1 system in my analysis since 
the slope of that curve never enters into a negative region.  Once you push it 
into a type 2 or 3 system the fireworks will begin.  That is where Dr. 
Parkhomov is operating with his latest version that is somewhat insulated.  It 
is going to take a lot of effort and good design for him to keep these stable.

I modeled this curve according to the behavior of a tunnel diode.  Since the 
voltage is analogous to the temperature and the power input analogous to the 
current it makes perfect sense.  You can determine how to design tunnel diode 
oscillators or switches from that basic curve.  I see the same thing happening 
with these LENR devices.  I also realize excellent correlation to my previous 
computer models.

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Jack Cole 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Mon, Feb 9, 2015 1:32 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment


I can add that chart.  That is actually the way I plot it for calculating 
excess power, but it's less intuitive in a presentation.


On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 12:20 PM, David Roberson  wrote:

Not exactly.  The slope of the input power will become lower as the temperature 
is increased in the chart that I use.  If this slope is not reduced as the 
temperature rises then there is little positive thermal feedback present.  And, 
if the slope enters into a negative region as temperature rises the device will 
continue to heat up until it either self destructs or the careful geometry of 
the design begins to take more heat power away from the system than is added by 
the core.   The new high temperature safe operating region exhibits a positive 
slope similar to what is seen below the negative slope threshold temperature. 

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene 
To: vortex-l 

Sent: Mon, Feb 9, 2015 12:55 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment



Isn’t chart D giving you that ?
 
 
 
From: David Roberson 
 
I would like to see the curve of input power versus temperature plotted.  The 
input power needs to appear along the Y-axis and the temperature along the 
X-axis.  This type of curve tells very much about how the device will behave.   
It can demonstrate when the COP will become large and indicate the potential 
for runaway conditions.

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Mon, Feb 9, 2015 12:21 pm
Subject: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment


Jack Cole has made progress in his continuing effort to reach higher COP at 
lower temperature in a ceramic cell of the type used by Parkhomov and Rossi.

http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/2015/02/09/excess-heating-alternative-hydrogen-source/

The results are improved but still only slightly gainful –not far enough above 
the noise level to expect others to drop everything and pay attention, yet … 
but heck, look at it this way – the delta-t gain is improved by about 50% over 
the previous iteration - and at that rate of improvement, it will not take 
long. A goal of COP=1.5 is in range with only a few more changes.

In fact, Jack held back on the hydrogen carrier (TiH2) due to the MFMP 
“explosion” and therein is an obvious way to look for further improvement.

The most notable feature is that gain was seen at very modest P-in which is due 
in part to thermal insulation.

Jones

PS – there is a paper in the LENR library by Dash et al where the authors state 
that titanium is more active for LENR than palladium. Therefore using TiH2 to 
carry hydrogen, while retaining lithium in a much safer form is almost a 
no-brainer.

Re: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment

[H Veeder]

Does the COP include the energy of pre-heating?
Harry
On Feb 9, 2015 1:48 PM, "David Roberson"  wrote:

> That is good Jack.  Perhaps it is less intuitive but it captures the
> behavior of these types of devices very well.  If the slope enters a
> negative region then the positive thermal feedback wins the battle and the
> device heats up rapidly.  The curve also will indicate whether or not a
> second high temperature region of stable operation is present.
>
> Your present design would be classified as a type 1 system in my analysis
> since the slope of that curve never enters into a negative region.  Once
> you push it into a type 2 or 3 system the fireworks will begin.  That is
> where Dr. Parkhomov is operating with his latest version that is somewhat
> insulated.  It is going to take a lot of effort and good design for him to
> keep these stable.
>
> I modeled this curve according to the behavior of a tunnel diode.  Since
> the voltage is analogous to the temperature and the power input analogous
> to the current it makes perfect sense.  You can determine how to design
> tunnel diode oscillators or switches from that basic curve.  I see the same
> thing happening with these LENR devices.  I also realize excellent
> correlation to my previous computer models.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>  -Original Message-
> From: Jack Cole 
> To: vortex-l 
> Sent: Mon, Feb 9, 2015 1:32 pm
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment
>
>  I can add that chart.  That is actually the way I plot it for
> calculating excess power, but it's less intuitive in a presentation.
>
> On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 12:20 PM, David Roberson 
> wrote:
>
>> Not exactly.  The slope of the input power will become lower as the
>> temperature is increased in the chart that I use.  If this slope is not
>> reduced as the temperature rises then there is little positive thermal
>> feedback present.  And, if the slope enters into a negative region as
>> temperature rises the device will continue to heat up until it either self
>> destructs or the careful geometry of the design begins to take more heat
>> power away from the system than is added by the core.   The new high
>> temperature safe operating region exhibits a positive slope similar to what
>> is seen below the negative slope threshold temperature.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>  -Original Message-
>> From: Jones Beene 
>> To: vortex-l 
>>   Sent: Mon, Feb 9, 2015 12:55 pm
>> Subject: RE: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment
>>
>>   Isn’t chart D giving you that ?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* David Roberson
>>
>> I would like to see the curve of input power versus temperature plotted.
>> The input power needs to appear along the Y-axis and the temperature along
>> the X-axis.  This type of curve tells very much about how the device will
>> behave.   It can demonstrate when the COP will become large and indicate
>> the potential for runaway conditions.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>  -Original Message-
>> From: Jones Beene 
>> To: vortex-l 
>> Sent: Mon, Feb 9, 2015 12:21 pm
>> Subject: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment
>>   Jack Cole has made progress in his continuing effort to reach higher
>> COP at lower temperature in a ceramic cell of the type used by Parkhomov
>> and Rossi.
>>
>> http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/2015/02/09/excess-heating-alternative-hydrogen-source/
>>  The results are improved but still only slightly gainful –not far
>> enough above the noise level to expect others to drop everything and pay
>> attention, yet … but heck, look at it this way – the delta-t gain is
>> improved by about 50% over the previous iteration - and at that rate of
>> improvement, it will not take long. A goal of COP=1.5 is in range with
>> only a few more changes.
>>  In fact, Jack held back on the hydrogen carrier (TiH2) due to the MFMP 
>> “explosion”
>> and therein is an obvious way to look for further improvement.
>>  The most notable feature is that gain was seen at very modest P-in
>> which is due in part to thermal insulation.
>>  Jones
>>  PS – there is a paper in the LENR library by Dash et al where the
>> authors state that titanium is more active for LENR than palladium.
>> Therefore using TiH2 to carry hydrogen, while retaining lithium in a much 
>> safer
>> form is almost a no-brainer.
>>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment

[Jones Beene]

 

Couple of more details of interest: the hydrogen release of TiH2 starts at 350 
C but the compound is a poor storage material for hydrogen, as a general rule, 
since the last hydrogen will not be removed easily. However… hydrogen transport 
could be less important than “participation” in the reaction …  Here is an old 
paper which indicates that titanium itself is very active for LENR, so it would 
be the ideal carrier for hydrogen which also participates in the gain. 

 

http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/DashJexcessheat.pdf

 

Simply use more of it. It is inexpensive. The magnitude of excess heat is said 
in the paper above to be greater for titanium than for palladium !

 

 

From: David Roberson 

 

That is good Jack.  Perhaps it is less intuitive but it captures the behavior 
of these types of devices very well.  If the slope enters a negative region 
then the positive thermal feedback wins the battle and the device heats up 
rapidly.  The curve also will indicate whether or not a second high temperature 
region of stable operation is present.

Your present design would be classified as a type 1 system in my analysis since 
the slope of that curve never enters into a negative region.  Once you push it 
into a type 2 or 3 system the fireworks will begin.  That is where Dr. 
Parkhomov is operating with his latest version that is somewhat insulated.  It 
is going to take a lot of effort and good design for him to keep these stable.

I modeled this curve according to the behavior of a tunnel diode.  Since the 
voltage is analogous to the temperature and the power input analogous to the 
current it makes perfect sense.  You can determine how to design tunnel diode 
oscillators or switches from that basic curve.  I see the same thing happening 
with these LENR devices.  I also realize excellent correlation to my previous 
computer models.

Dave

 

 

 

Re: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment

[David Roberson]

That is good Jack.  Perhaps it is less intuitive but it captures the behavior 
of these types of devices very well.  If the slope enters a negative region 
then the positive thermal feedback wins the battle and the device heats up 
rapidly.  The curve also will indicate whether or not a second high temperature 
region of stable operation is present.

Your present design would be classified as a type 1 system in my analysis since 
the slope of that curve never enters into a negative region.  Once you push it 
into a type 2 or 3 system the fireworks will begin.  That is where Dr. 
Parkhomov is operating with his latest version that is somewhat insulated.  It 
is going to take a lot of effort and good design for him to keep these stable.

I modeled this curve according to the behavior of a tunnel diode.  Since the 
voltage is analogous to the temperature and the power input analogous to the 
current it makes perfect sense.  You can determine how to design tunnel diode 
oscillators or switches from that basic curve.  I see the same thing happening 
with these LENR devices.  I also realize excellent correlation to my previous 
computer models.

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Jack Cole 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Mon, Feb 9, 2015 1:32 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment


I can add that chart.  That is actually the way I plot it for calculating 
excess power, but it's less intuitive in a presentation.


On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 12:20 PM, David Roberson  wrote:

Not exactly.  The slope of the input power will become lower as the temperature 
is increased in the chart that I use.  If this slope is not reduced as the 
temperature rises then there is little positive thermal feedback present.  And, 
if the slope enters into a negative region as temperature rises the device will 
continue to heat up until it either self destructs or the careful geometry of 
the design begins to take more heat power away from the system than is added by 
the core.   The new high temperature safe operating region exhibits a positive 
slope similar to what is seen below the negative slope threshold temperature. 

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene 
To: vortex-l 

Sent: Mon, Feb 9, 2015 12:55 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment



Isn’t chart D giving you that ?
 
 
 
From: David Roberson 
 
I would like to see the curve of input power versus temperature plotted.  The 
input power needs to appear along the Y-axis and the temperature along the 
X-axis.  This type of curve tells very much about how the device will behave.   
It can demonstrate when the COP will become large and indicate the potential 
for runaway conditions.

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Mon, Feb 9, 2015 12:21 pm
Subject: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment


Jack Cole has made progress in his continuing effort to reach higher COP at 
lower temperature in a ceramic cell of the type used by Parkhomov and Rossi.

http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/2015/02/09/excess-heating-alternative-hydrogen-source/

The results are improved but still only slightly gainful –not far enough above 
the noise level to expect others to drop everything and pay attention, yet … 
but heck, look at it this way – the delta-t gain is improved by about 50% over 
the previous iteration - and at that rate of improvement, it will not take 
long. A goal of COP=1.5 is in range with only a few more changes.

In fact, Jack held back on the hydrogen carrier (TiH2) due to the MFMP 
“explosion” and therein is an obvious way to look for further improvement.

The most notable feature is that gain was seen at very modest P-in which is due 
in part to thermal insulation.

Jones

PS – there is a paper in the LENR library by Dash et al where the authors state 
that titanium is more active for LENR than palladium. Therefore using TiH2 to 
carry hydrogen, while retaining lithium in a much safer form is almost a 
no-brainer.

Re: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment

[Jack Cole]

I have added it now at the end of the post.

On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 12:31 PM, David Roberson  wrote:

> Jones, you are confusing me!  I am recovering from a bad case of Norovirus
> today that is leaving my brain scrambled.  If the axis of that curve are
> adjusted properly then it will become the correct one.  The input power
> needs to be along the Y-axis, while the temperature should appear along the
> X-axis.  A quick look at the present curve does not show the slope tending
> in the correct direction.   Perhaps as he works on the design the proper
> indication will begin to appear.  And, obviously, the amount of positive
> feedback present has a major effect upon visual display of the graph.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>  -Original Message-
> From: Jones Beene 
> To: vortex-l 
> Sent: Mon, Feb 9, 2015 1:03 pm
> Subject: RE: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment
>
>   Make that Chart C
>
>
> *From:* David Roberson
>
> I would like to see the curve of input power versus temperature plotted.
> The input power needs to appear along the Y-axis and the temperature along
> the X-axis.  This type of curve tells very much about how the device will
> behave.   It can demonstrate when the COP will become large and indicate
> the potential for runaway conditions.
>
> Dave
>
>
>Jack Cole has made progress in his continuing effort to reach higher
> COP at lower temperature in a ceramic cell of the type used by Parkhomov
> and Rossi.
>
> http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/2015/02/09/excess-heating-alternative-hydrogen-source/
>  The results are improved but still only slightly gainful –not far enough
> above the noise level to expect others to drop everything and pay attention, 
> yet
> … but heck, look at it this way – the delta-t gain is improved by about
> 50% over the previous iteration - and at that rate of improvement, it
> will not take long. A goal of COP=1.5 is in range with only a few more
> changes.
>  In fact, Jack held back on the hydrogen carrier (TiH2) due to the MFMP 
> “explosion”
> and therein is an obvious way to look for further improvement.
>  The most notable feature is that gain was seen at very modest P-in which
> is due in part to thermal insulation.
>  Jones
>  PS – there is a paper in the LENR library by Dash et al where the
> authors state that titanium is more active for LENR than palladium.
> Therefore using TiH2 to carry hydrogen, while retaining lithium in a much 
> safer
> form is almost a no-brainer.
>

Re: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment

[Jack Cole]

I can add that chart.  That is actually the way I plot it for calculating
excess power, but it's less intuitive in a presentation.

On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 12:20 PM, David Roberson  wrote:

> Not exactly.  The slope of the input power will become lower as the
> temperature is increased in the chart that I use.  If this slope is not
> reduced as the temperature rises then there is little positive thermal
> feedback present.  And, if the slope enters into a negative region as
> temperature rises the device will continue to heat up until it either self
> destructs or the careful geometry of the design begins to take more heat
> power away from the system than is added by the core.   The new high
> temperature safe operating region exhibits a positive slope similar to what
> is seen below the negative slope threshold temperature.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>  -Original Message-
> From: Jones Beene 
> To: vortex-l 
> Sent: Mon, Feb 9, 2015 12:55 pm
> Subject: RE: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment
>
>   Isn’t chart D giving you that ?
>
>
>
> *From:* David Roberson
>
> I would like to see the curve of input power versus temperature plotted.
> The input power needs to appear along the Y-axis and the temperature along
> the X-axis.  This type of curve tells very much about how the device will
> behave.   It can demonstrate when the COP will become large and indicate
> the potential for runaway conditions.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>  -Original Message-
> From: Jones Beene 
> To: vortex-l 
> Sent: Mon, Feb 9, 2015 12:21 pm
> Subject: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment
>   Jack Cole has made progress in his continuing effort to reach higher
> COP at lower temperature in a ceramic cell of the type used by Parkhomov
> and Rossi.
>
> http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/2015/02/09/excess-heating-alternative-hydrogen-source/
>  The results are improved but still only slightly gainful –not far enough
> above the noise level to expect others to drop everything and pay attention, 
> yet
> … but heck, look at it this way – the delta-t gain is improved by about
> 50% over the previous iteration - and at that rate of improvement, it
> will not take long. A goal of COP=1.5 is in range with only a few more
> changes.
>  In fact, Jack held back on the hydrogen carrier (TiH2) due to the MFMP 
> “explosion”
> and therein is an obvious way to look for further improvement.
>  The most notable feature is that gain was seen at very modest P-in which
> is due in part to thermal insulation.
>  Jones
>  PS – there is a paper in the LENR library by Dash et al where the
> authors state that titanium is more active for LENR than palladium.
> Therefore using TiH2 to carry hydrogen, while retaining lithium in a much 
> safer
> form is almost a no-brainer.
>

Re: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment

[David Roberson]

Jones, you are confusing me!  I am recovering from a bad case of Norovirus 
today that is leaving my brain scrambled.  If the axis of that curve are 
adjusted properly then it will become the correct one.  The input power needs 
to be along the Y-axis, while the temperature should appear along the X-axis.  
A quick look at the present curve does not show the slope tending in the 
correct direction.   Perhaps as he works on the design the proper indication 
will begin to appear.  And, obviously, the amount of positive feedback present 
has a major effect upon visual display of the graph.

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Mon, Feb 9, 2015 1:03 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment



Make that Chart C
 
 
From: David Roberson 
 
I would like to see the curve of input power versus temperature plotted.  The 
input power needs to appear along the Y-axis and the temperature along the 
X-axis.  This type of curve tells very much about how the device will behave.   
It can demonstrate when the COP will become large and indicate the potential 
for runaway conditions.

Dave

 

 



Jack Cole has made progress in his continuing effort to reach higher COP at 
lower temperature in a ceramic cell of the type used by Parkhomov and Rossi.

http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/2015/02/09/excess-heating-alternative-hydrogen-source/

The results are improved but still only slightly gainful –not far enough above 
the noise level to expect others to drop everything and pay attention, yet … 
but heck, look at it this way – the delta-t gain is improved by about 50% over 
the previous iteration - and at that rate of improvement, it will not take 
long. A goal of COP=1.5 is in range with only a few more changes.

In fact, Jack held back on the hydrogen carrier (TiH2) due to the MFMP 
“explosion” and therein is an obvious way to look for further improvement.

The most notable feature is that gain was seen at very modest P-in which is due 
in part to thermal insulation.

Jones

PS – there is a paper in the LENR library by Dash et al where the authors state 
that titanium is more active for LENR than palladium. Therefore using TiH2 to 
carry hydrogen, while retaining lithium in a much safer form is almost a 
no-brainer.

Re: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment

[David Roberson]

Not exactly.  The slope of the input power will become lower as the temperature 
is increased in the chart that I use.  If this slope is not reduced as the 
temperature rises then there is little positive thermal feedback present.  And, 
if the slope enters into a negative region as temperature rises the device will 
continue to heat up until it either self destructs or the careful geometry of 
the design begins to take more heat power away from the system than is added by 
the core.   The new high temperature safe operating region exhibits a positive 
slope similar to what is seen below the negative slope threshold temperature. 

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Mon, Feb 9, 2015 12:55 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment



Isn’t chart D giving you that ?
 
 
 
From: David Roberson 
 
I would like to see the curve of input power versus temperature plotted.  The 
input power needs to appear along the Y-axis and the temperature along the 
X-axis.  This type of curve tells very much about how the device will behave.   
It can demonstrate when the COP will become large and indicate the potential 
for runaway conditions.

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Mon, Feb 9, 2015 12:21 pm
Subject: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment


Jack Cole has made progress in his continuing effort to reach higher COP at 
lower temperature in a ceramic cell of the type used by Parkhomov and Rossi.

http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/2015/02/09/excess-heating-alternative-hydrogen-source/

The results are improved but still only slightly gainful –not far enough above 
the noise level to expect others to drop everything and pay attention, yet … 
but heck, look at it this way – the delta-t gain is improved by about 50% over 
the previous iteration - and at that rate of improvement, it will not take 
long. A goal of COP=1.5 is in range with only a few more changes.

In fact, Jack held back on the hydrogen carrier (TiH2) due to the MFMP 
“explosion” and therein is an obvious way to look for further improvement.

The most notable feature is that gain was seen at very modest P-in which is due 
in part to thermal insulation.

Jones

PS – there is a paper in the LENR library by Dash et al where the authors state 
that titanium is more active for LENR than palladium. Therefore using TiH2 to 
carry hydrogen, while retaining lithium in a much safer form is almost a 
no-brainer.

RE: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment

[Jones Beene]

Make that Chart C

 

 

From: David Roberson 

 

I would like to see the curve of input power versus temperature plotted.  The 
input power needs to appear along the Y-axis and the temperature along the 
X-axis.  This type of curve tells very much about how the device will behave.   
It can demonstrate when the COP will become large and indicate the potential 
for runaway conditions.

Dave

 

 

Jack Cole has made progress in his continuing effort to reach higher COP at 
lower temperature in a ceramic cell of the type used by Parkhomov and Rossi.

 

 
http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/2015/02/09/excess-heating-alternative-hydrogen-source/

The results are improved but still only slightly gainful –not far enough above 
the noise level to expect others to drop everything and pay attention, yet … 
but heck, look at it this way – the delta-t gain is improved by about 50% over 
the previous iteration - and at that rate of improvement, it will not take 
long. A goal of COP=1.5 is in range with only a few more changes.

In fact, Jack held back on the hydrogen carrier (TiH2) due to the MFMP 
“explosion” and therein is an obvious way to look for further improvement.

The most notable feature is that gain was seen at very modest P-in which is due 
in part to thermal insulation.

Jones

PS – there is a paper in the LENR library by Dash et al where the authors state 
that titanium is more active for LENR than palladium. Therefore using TiH2 to 
carry hydrogen, while retaining lithium in a much safer form is almost a 
no-brainer.

RE: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment

[Jones Beene]

Isn’t chart D giving you that ?

 

 

 

From: David Roberson 

 

I would like to see the curve of input power versus temperature plotted.  The 
input power needs to appear along the Y-axis and the temperature along the 
X-axis.  This type of curve tells very much about how the device will behave.   
It can demonstrate when the COP will become large and indicate the potential 
for runaway conditions.

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Mon, Feb 9, 2015 12:21 pm
Subject: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment

Jack Cole has made progress in his continuing effort to reach higher COP at 
lower temperature in a ceramic cell of the type used by Parkhomov and Rossi.

 
<http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/2015/02/09/excess-heating-alternative-hydrogen-source/>
 
http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/2015/02/09/excess-heating-alternative-hydrogen-source/

The results are improved but still only slightly gainful –not far enough above 
the noise level to expect others to drop everything and pay attention, yet … 
but heck, look at it this way – the delta-t gain is improved by about 50% over 
the previous iteration - and at that rate of improvement, it will not take 
long. A goal of COP=1.5 is in range with only a few more changes.

In fact, Jack held back on the hydrogen carrier (TiH2) due to the MFMP 
“explosion” and therein is an obvious way to look for further improvement.

The most notable feature is that gain was seen at very modest P-in which is due 
in part to thermal insulation.

Jones

PS – there is a paper in the LENR library by Dash et al where the authors state 
that titanium is more active for LENR than palladium. Therefore using TiH2 to 
carry hydrogen, while retaining lithium in a much safer form is almost a 
no-brainer.

Re: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment

[David Roberson]

I would like to see the curve of input power versus temperature plotted.  The 
input power needs to appear along the Y-axis and the temperature along the 
X-axis.  This type of curve tells very much about how the device will behave.   
It can demonstrate when the COP will become large and indicate the potential 
for runaway conditions.

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Mon, Feb 9, 2015 12:21 pm
Subject: [Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment



Jack Cole has made progress in his continuing effort to reach higher COP at 
lower temperature in a ceramic cell of the type used by Parkhomov and Rossi.
http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/2015/02/09/excess-heating-alternative-hydrogen-source/
The results are improved but still only slightly gainful –not far enough above 
the noise level to expect others to drop everything and pay attention, yet … 
but heck, look at it this way – the delta-t gain is improved by about 50% over 
the previous iteration - and at that rate of improvement, it will not take 
long. A goal of COP=1.5 is in range with only a few more changes.
In fact, Jack held back on the hydrogen carrier (TiH2) due to the MFMP 
“explosion” and therein is an obvious way to look for further improvement.

The most notable feature is that gain was seen at very modest P-in which is due 
in part to thermal insulation.
Jones
PS – there is a paper in the LENR library by Dash et al where the authors state 
that titanium is more active for LENR than palladium. Therefore using TiH2 to 
carry hydrogen, while retaining lithium in a much safer form is almost a 
no-brainer.

[Vo]:Titanium as hydrogen carrier in Improved experiment

[Jones Beene]

Jack Cole has made progress in his continuing effort to reach higher COP at
lower temperature in a ceramic cell of the type used by Parkhomov and Rossi.

http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/2015/02/09/excess-heating-alternative-hydroge
n-source/

The results are improved but still only slightly gainful -not far enough
above the noise level to expect others to drop everything and pay attention,
yet . but heck, look at it this way - the delta-t gain is improved by about
50% over the previous iteration - and at that rate of improvement, it will
not take long. A goal of COP=1.5 is in range with only a few more changes.

In fact, Jack held back on the hydrogen carrier (TiH2) due to the MFMP
"explosion" and therein is an obvious way to look for further improvement.

The most notable feature is that gain was seen at very modest P-in which is
due in part to thermal insulation.

Jones

PS - there is a paper in the LENR library by Dash et al where the authors
state that titanium is more active for LENR than palladium. Therefore using
TiH2 to carry hydrogen, while retaining lithium in a much safer form is
almost a no-brainer.