Re: [Vo]:nanocavities
Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com viahttp://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=enctx=mailanswer=1311182 eskimo.com 11:45 AM (15 hours ago) to vortex-l Edmund Storms https://plus.google.com/u/0/112904824327993917962?prsrc=4 writes: Yes, but all of these processes you describe are done near absolute zero while using complex apparatus. This has no relationship to cold fusion. ***What about KP Sinha’s Laser experiment in LENR ? Laser stimulation of low-energy nuclear reactions in deuterated palladium http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/oct102006/907.pdf On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:33 PM, Axil Axil wrote: Experiments by Piantelli and information about early Rossi systems indicate that a cold LENR system will produce high energy radiation, but a hot system will not. Alix, this statement does not describe the evidence. All we know is what Rossi claims, i.e. that INITIALLY radiation is produced that is reduced as the process continues. Many people have detected radiation under various conditions. How can we understand the physical meaning of these experimental results? It has been shown that coherent EMF in the form of time-dependent potentials can lead to substantial cooling in Bose Einstein condensates in an open system that allows entropy to be removed. Formation of a Bose-Einstein condensate is routinely accomplished by using laser light to cool the system – in laser cooling in the form of scattered photons, in evaporative cooling in the form of discarded atoms. Energy is transferred from atoms to be cooled to atoms which are rejected from the system. In another example, this cooling technique is also used in cooling elements in the formation of clusters. Yes, but all of these processes you describe are done near absolute zero while using complex apparatus. This has no relationship to cold fusion. Ionic clusters consist of a single ion surrounded by one or more neutral molecules. They are created when a gas is cooled. Molecules in the gaseous state are widely separated and move about in continual motion. So widely separated in space are these molecules that they exert no force of attraction upon one another, and although they frequently collide, their kinetic energy is so high they will not stick together. These gas molecules must be cooled to reduce their kinetic energy and associated random motion. As the temperature in the gas drops, however, molecular motion slows and the molecules begin to gather and stick together. Eventually, the motion slows sufficiently for intermolecular forces of attraction to bind the molecules together into clusters that number from a few to a few hundred individual molecules in size. If the number of neutral molecules surrounding the ion in each cluster becomes sufficiently large, an assemblage of clusters will resemble a conventional bulk material--either a liquid or a solid. Three common ways exist to produce clusters: a) Gas aggregation sources: This is the oldest and easiest method for cluster production. Atoms or molecules are evaporated into a flow of rare gas atoms. The evaporated atoms are cooled in collision with the rare gas. When the atoms or molecules loose enough energy the cluster production is started. b) Laser-ablation sources (surface sources, sputtering): Photon or heavy particle impact on a surface leads to the desorption of atoms or molecules. The released atoms or molecules are partially ionized and form plasma. Similar like in the gas aggregation sources the plasma is cooled by present rare gas that removes kinetic energy from the system and cluster formation is achieved c) Supersonic cluster sources: A gas under high pressure is expanded adiabatically through a small nozzle. This is how noble gases are liquefied. In a LENR system where a metal lattice is present, the coherent motion of the lattice will remove kinetic energy from the active nuclear sites containing the Bose-Einstein condensates by rejecting kinetic energy produced in these structures by nuclear processes contained the metal lattice. This description has no justification in theory or in observation. Coherent motion of atoms does no occur spontaneously in a lattice. If the coherent motion of the lattice is not robust enough, the radiation produced by the nuclear reactions will be unmodified by the cold lattice and escape as gamma rays. I have no idea what you are describing by the above comment. Ed Cheers: Axil On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Lou, Any theory that proposes to use tunneling based on electrons being concentrated must at the same time show how the resulting energy is dissipated. Such energy is dissipated normally by the fusion product breaking into two parts, which go off with high energy in directions required to conserve momentum. This is
Re: [Vo]:nanocavities
I don't understand your point. Laser stimulation has been done many times and it simply adds energy to the process. Energy can be added by increased temperature and application of applied current, which also increases the power. This changes nothing basic about the process nor reveals how the process works. Ed On Feb 10, 2013, at 3:54 AM, Kevin O'Malley wrote: Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com via eskimo.com 11:45 AM (15 hours ago) to vortex-l Edmund Storms writes: Yes, but all of these processes you describe are done near absolute zero while using complex apparatus. This has no relationship to cold fusion. ***What about KP Sinha’s Laser experiment in LENR ? Laser stimulation of low-energy nuclear reactions in deuterated palladium http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/oct102006/907.pdf On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:33 PM, Axil Axil wrote: Experiments by Piantelli and information about early Rossi systems indicate that a cold LENR system will produce high energy radiation, but a hot system will not. Alix, this statement does not describe the evidence. All we know is what Rossi claims, i.e. that INITIALLY radiation is produced that is reduced as the process continues. Many people have detected radiation under various conditions. How can we understand the physical meaning of these experimental results? It has been shown that coherent EMF in the form of time-dependent potentials can lead to substantial cooling in Bose Einstein condensates in an open system that allows entropy to be removed. Formation of a Bose-Einstein condensate is routinely accomplished by using laser light to cool the system – in laser cooling in the form of scattered photons, in evaporative cooling in the form of discarded atoms. Energy is transferred from atoms to be cooled to atoms which are rejected from the system. In another example, this cooling technique is also used in cooling elements in the formation of clusters. Yes, but all of these processes you describe are done near absolute zero while using complex apparatus. This has no relationship to cold fusion. Ionic clusters consist of a single ion surrounded by one or more neutral molecules. They are created when a gas is cooled. Molecules in the gaseous state are widely separated and move about in continual motion. So widely separated in space are these molecules that they exert no force of attraction upon one another, and although they frequently collide, their kinetic energy is so high they will not stick together. These gas molecules must be cooled to reduce their kinetic energy and associated random motion. As the temperature in the gas drops, however, molecular motion slows and the molecules begin to gather and stick together. Eventually, the motion slows sufficiently for intermolecular forces of attraction to bind the molecules together into clusters that number from a few to a few hundred individual molecules in size. If the number of neutral molecules surrounding the ion in each cluster becomes sufficiently large, an assemblage of clusters will resemble a conventional bulk material--either a liquid or a solid. Three common ways exist to produce clusters: a) Gas aggregation sources: This is the oldest and easiest method for cluster production. Atoms or molecules are evaporated into a flow of rare gas atoms. The evaporated atoms are cooled in collision with the rare gas. When the atoms or molecules loose enough energy the cluster production is started. b) Laser-ablation sources (surface sources, sputtering): Photon or heavy particle impact on a surface leads to the desorption of atoms or molecules. The released atoms or molecules are partially ionized and form plasma. Similar like in the gas aggregation sources the plasma is cooled by present rare gas that removes kinetic energy from the system and cluster formation is achieved c) Supersonic cluster sources: A gas under high pressure is expanded adiabatically through a small nozzle. This is how noble gases are liquefied. In a LENR system where a metal lattice is present, the coherent motion of the lattice will remove kinetic energy from the active nuclear sites containing the Bose-Einstein condensates by rejecting kinetic energy produced in these structures by nuclear processes contained the metal lattice. This description has no justification in theory or in observation. Coherent motion of atoms does no occur spontaneously in a lattice. If the coherent motion of the lattice is not robust enough, the radiation produced by the nuclear reactions will be unmodified by the cold lattice and escape as gamma rays. I have no idea what you are describing by the above comment. Ed Cheers: Axil On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Lou, Any
RE: [Vo]:nanocavities
Kevin - I could not open that document, but it sounds similar to the Letts/Cravens effect. Can you post the abstract? The Letts/Cravens effect could end up being more important than anyone realizes if the polariton is involved. Here is a Krivit interview with D.C. on the general subject. http://newenergytimes.com/v2/views/Group1/Cravens.shtml The more important new point in this regard - which I would like to bring up now due to the circumstances relates to the several new papers on room-temperature BEC polaritons... (of a few days ago, here is one of at least 3 similar papers): http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2007/mar/27/polariton-laser-reaches -room-temperature The point is this: how could the Letts/Cravens effect NOT relate to the room-temperature BEC quasiparticle in some important way? It would be most interesting to hear from Dennis Cravens on this. BTW - it turns out that 5 years ago - another important detail in this broader niche emerged - which is the magnetic susceptibility of the host. Turns out that palladium is actually ferromagnetic when loaded with hydrogen - similar to nickel in fact. Here was my take on it back then in 2008 but this was before the polariton angle was found. http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg24020.html In reconsideration of all that we know - with an eye on the future - probably the most robust (but also the most toxic) way to move forward with this combination of Letts/Cravens laser effect in the context of the BEC-polariton - would be with a hybrid LENR/fission device. Yikes. Don't wince just yet, as this could be the lesser of two evils. Fission - despite all its baggage is far preferable to burning coal, and it produces no greenhouse gases, so if fission can be made more desirable then surely the Chinese will substitute it for coal, even if the USA is too advanced for a new and better kind of Uranium fission. This hybrid of LENR and U fission would be a concept which is massively subcritical, uses natural un-enriched metal and in small reactors which could be mass produced - but still needs plenty of shielding. LENR becomes the driving force for Uranium fission, and hydrogen in the matrix replaces of most of the neutron flux which would normally be required. The reactor could be small, but too dirty for use in an automobile; but could be shielded adequately with concrete for use as a local reactor in a factory or office building- in which hot water is free and electricity is cheap with no emissions. This concept would be far more acceptable as a replacement for normal fission or for coal, as it would be subcritical, safe and far cleaner than so-called clean coal. Of course, it comes with the assumption that normal LENR does not permit a high enough COP when scaled-up to megawatts - to ever become commercially viable. Jones From: Kevin O'Malley Yes, but all of these processes you describe are done near absolute zero while using complex apparatus. This has no relationship to cold fusion. ***What about KP Sinha's Laser experiment in LENR ? Laser stimulation of low-energy nuclear reactions in deuterated palladium http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/oct102006/907.pdf attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:nanocavities
it seems not to work, but http://repository.ias.ac.in/64627/ and public paper link http://repository.ias.ac.in/64627/1/10-pub.pdf works better 2013/2/10 Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com viahttp://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=enctx=mailanswer=1311182 eskimo.com 11:45 AM (15 hours ago) to vortex-l Edmund Storms https://plus.google.com/u/0/112904824327993917962?prsrc=4 writes: Yes, but all of these processes you describe are done near absolute zero while using complex apparatus. This has no relationship to cold fusion. ***What about KP Sinha’s Laser experiment in LENR ? Laser stimulation of low-energy nuclear reactions in deuterated palladium http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/oct102006/907.pdf On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:33 PM, Axil Axil wrote: Experiments by Piantelli and information about early Rossi systems indicate that a cold LENR system will produce high energy radiation, but a hot system will not. Alix, this statement does not describe the evidence. All we know is what Rossi claims, i.e. that INITIALLY radiation is produced that is reduced as the process continues. Many people have detected radiation under various conditions. How can we understand the physical meaning of these experimental results? It has been shown that coherent EMF in the form of time-dependent potentials can lead to substantial cooling in Bose Einstein condensates in an open system that allows entropy to be removed. Formation of a Bose-Einstein condensate is routinely accomplished by using laser light to cool the system – in laser cooling in the form of scattered photons, in evaporative cooling in the form of discarded atoms. Energy is transferred from atoms to be cooled to atoms which are rejected from the system. In another example, this cooling technique is also used in cooling elements in the formation of clusters. Yes, but all of these processes you describe are done near absolute zero while using complex apparatus. This has no relationship to cold fusion. Ionic clusters consist of a single ion surrounded by one or more neutral molecules. They are created when a gas is cooled. Molecules in the gaseous state are widely separated and move about in continual motion. So widely separated in space are these molecules that they exert no force of attraction upon one another, and although they frequently collide, their kinetic energy is so high they will not stick together. These gas molecules must be cooled to reduce their kinetic energy and associated random motion. As the temperature in the gas drops, however, molecular motion slows and the molecules begin to gather and stick together. Eventually, the motion slows sufficiently for intermolecular forces of attraction to bind the molecules together into clusters that number from a few to a few hundred individual molecules in size. If the number of neutral molecules surrounding the ion in each cluster becomes sufficiently large, an assemblage of clusters will resemble a conventional bulk material--either a liquid or a solid. Three common ways exist to produce clusters: a) Gas aggregation sources: This is the oldest and easiest method for cluster production. Atoms or molecules are evaporated into a flow of rare gas atoms. The evaporated atoms are cooled in collision with the rare gas. When the atoms or molecules loose enough energy the cluster production is started. b) Laser-ablation sources (surface sources, sputtering): Photon or heavy particle impact on a surface leads to the desorption of atoms or molecules. The released atoms or molecules are partially ionized and form plasma. Similar like in the gas aggregation sources the plasma is cooled by present rare gas that removes kinetic energy from the system and cluster formation is achieved c) Supersonic cluster sources: A gas under high pressure is expanded adiabatically through a small nozzle. This is how noble gases are liquefied. In a LENR system where a metal lattice is present, the coherent motion of the lattice will remove kinetic energy from the active nuclear sites containing the Bose-Einstein condensates by rejecting kinetic energy produced in these structures by nuclear processes contained the metal lattice. This description has no justification in theory or in observation. Coherent motion of atoms does no occur spontaneously in a lattice. If the coherent motion of the lattice is not robust enough, the radiation produced by the nuclear reactions will be unmodified by the cold lattice and escape as gamma rays. I have no idea what you are describing by the above comment. Ed Cheers: Axil On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Lou, Any theory that proposes to use tunneling based on electrons being concentrated must at the same time show how
Re: [Vo]:nanocavities
Everyone seems to have an explanation of the laser effect. I think all agree that the laser can stimulate energy states in the surface. What these states do to initiate LENR is the big question. Hagelstein proposes that the laser stimulates phonons that initiate a fusion reaction in metal atom vacancies containing extra D. He assumes that metal vacancies are present, that several D can occupy this space, that these D vibrate thereby losing energy as phonons to eventually fuse without residual energy. The laser is proposed to stimulate phonon states in the PdD lattice, which are assumed to increase this process if the laser has the correct frequency. Sinha and Meulenberg have different explanation. They propose creation of a deuteron surrounded by two electrons (D-), which is energetically impossible in PdD. They avoid this problem simply by calling the D- a boson. They propose a structure consisting of D-_D+ can exist without forming a normal D2 molecule and this structure has a lower barrier than present in D2. They propose that the laser affects the two electrons in the D-_D+ structure in ways that can lower the barrier. They do not explain why hot fusion does not result from this process, which would be expected, instead of cold fusion. The basic questions are, Why does the laser effect work when the surface is covered with gold so that the PdD was not actually exposed to the laser and why does a single laser work sometimes and a duel laser is required at other times? Neither paper answers these questions using consistent logic. Neither paper explains why the effect works just as well with or without the laser. In other words, I see no experimental need to propose that phonons or polarons play any essential role other than provide extra energy to an unknown process that is already underway. Yes, clusters must form because the D must accumulate in one spot in order to react. Yes, cracks or voids provide the only energetically favorable place where this can occur. What happens next is the big question. Simply introducing the concept of the boson provides no useful information. As Jones very completely pointed out, everything can be a boson. Ed On Feb 10, 2013, at 9:53 AM, Alain Sepeda wrote: it seems not to work, but http://repository.ias.ac.in/64627/ and public paper link http://repository.ias.ac.in/64627/1/10-pub.pdf works better 2013/2/10 Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com via eskimo.com 11:45 AM (15 hours ago) to vortex-l Edmund Storms writes: Yes, but all of these processes you describe are done near absolute zero while using complex apparatus. This has no relationship to cold fusion. ***What about KP Sinha’s Laser experiment in LENR ? Laser stimulation of low-energy nuclear reactions in deuterated palladium http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/oct102006/907.pdf On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:33 PM, Axil Axil wrote: Experiments by Piantelli and information about early Rossi systems indicate that a cold LENR system will produce high energy radiation, but a hot system will not. Alix, this statement does not describe the evidence. All we know is what Rossi claims, i.e. that INITIALLY radiation is produced that is reduced as the process continues. Many people have detected radiation under various conditions. How can we understand the physical meaning of these experimental results? It has been shown that coherent EMF in the form of time-dependent potentials can lead to substantial cooling in Bose Einstein condensates in an open system that allows entropy to be removed. Formation of a Bose-Einstein condensate is routinely accomplished by using laser light to cool the system – in laser cooling in the form of scattered photons, in evaporative cooling in the form of discarded atoms. Energy is transferred from atoms to be cooled to atoms which are rejected from the system. In another example, this cooling technique is also used in cooling elements in the formation of clusters. Yes, but all of these processes you describe are done near absolute zero while using complex apparatus. This has no relationship to cold fusion. Ionic clusters consist of a single ion surrounded by one or more neutral molecules. They are created when a gas is cooled. Molecules in the gaseous state are widely separated and move about in continual motion. So widely separated in space are these molecules that they exert no force of attraction upon one another, and although they frequently collide, their kinetic energy is so high they will not stick together. These gas molecules must be cooled to reduce their kinetic energy and associated random motion. As the temperature in the gas drops, however, molecular motion slows and the molecules begin to gather and stick
Re: [Vo]:nanocavities
*The basic questions are, Why does the laser effect work when the surface is covered with gold so that the PdD was not actually exposed to the laser and why does a single laser work sometimes and a duel laser is required at other times? * If you want to understand LENR, you must understand how clusters, cluster ionization, and cluster explosion concentrate charge separation. Laser irradiation of clusters produce high charge separation and resultant concentrations of electrons through the production of x-rays, and resultant high energy electrons via gainful cluster explosion. www.ph.utexas.edu/~tditmire/papers/TD27.pdf Solid targets, on the other hand, often exhibit very large laser energy absorption. The use of solids as targets for intense lasers has successfully produced both photons and particles with energies up to the MeV range Because of the strong absorption mechanisms in a solid density plasma, such as collisional heating, resonance absorption, and various plasma instabilities, significant fractions of the laser pulse energy ~.10% can be deposited into the plasma. The hot plasmas that result will emit copious amounts of x rays. Conversion efficiency of nearly 1% of laser light into x rays in the 1-keV photon energy range has been demonstrated. *Here is how gold coating increase LENR activity* This conversion efficiency can be increased to 10% when the surface of the target is coated with a layer of porous gold-black, which is composed of individual 100-Å clusters of gold. This gold-black was shown to be much more efficient at absorbing the incident laser energy than conventional flat gold targets due to the large surface to volume ratio of the gold clusters. Strong soft-x-ray yields have also been obtained when C60 molecules are illuminated with a short-pulse KrF laser , suggesting that the large laser energy absorption observed with gold-black targets also occurs when large molecules are the target media. High-pressure gas jets produce a unique combination of both gas and solid phase components. Solid density clusters form in the jet, resulting from the cooling associated with the adiabatic expansion of the gas into vacuum. This cooling causes the gas to supersaturate and nucleate. Under appropriate conditions, when the gas jet backing pressure exceeds a few atmospheres, the clusters formed in the expanding jet can be quite large ~10exp4 atoms per cluster! for gases such as Ar, Kr, N2 , and Xe. Cheers: Axil On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Everyone seems to have an explanation of the laser effect. I think all agree that the laser can stimulate energy states in the surface. What these states do to initiate LENR is the big question. Hagelstein proposes that the laser stimulates phonons that initiate a fusion reaction in metal atom vacancies containing extra D. He assumes that metal vacancies are present, that several D can occupy this space, that these D vibrate thereby losing energy as phonons to eventually fuse without residual energy. The laser is proposed to stimulate phonon states in the PdD lattice, which are assumed to increase this process if the laser has the correct frequency. Sinha and Meulenberg have different explanation. They propose creation of a deuteron surrounded by two electrons (D-), which is energetically impossible in PdD. They avoid this problem simply by calling the D- a boson. They propose a structure consisting of D-_D+ can exist without forming a normal D2 molecule and this structure has a lower barrier than present in D2. They propose that the laser affects the two electrons in the D-_D+ structure in ways that can lower the barrier. They do not explain why hot fusion does not result from this process, which would be expected, instead of cold fusion. The basic questions are, Why does the laser effect work when the surface is covered with gold so that the PdD was not actually exposed to the laser and why does a single laser work sometimes and a duel laser is required at other times? Neither paper answers these questions using consistent logic. Neither paper explains why the effect works just as well with or without the laser. In other words, I see no experimental need to propose that phonons or polarons play any essential role other than provide extra energy to an unknown process that is already underway. Yes, clusters must form because the D must accumulate in one spot in order to react. Yes, cracks or voids provide the only energetically favorable place where this can occur. What happens next is the big question. Simply introducing the concept of the boson provides no useful information. As Jones very completely pointed out, everything can be a boson. Ed On Feb 10, 2013, at 9:53 AM, Alain Sepeda wrote: it seems not to work, but http://repository.ias.ac.in/64627/ and public paper link http://repository.ias.ac.in/64627/1/10-pub.pdf works better
Re: [Vo]:nanocavities
. Laser stimulation has been done many times and it simply adds energy to the process. ***That was my misconception as well. But when I talked to KP Sinha on the phone, he assured me that the process he was involved in for exposing the LENR environment to lasers was a way to REMOVE energy from the system. I think that means what used to be a high energy system now becomes a low-energy system to the point that a BEC can form, because those things do not form under high energy states but rather low energy states. On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 8:07 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: I don't understand your point. Laser stimulation has been done many times and it simply adds energy to the process. Energy can be added by increased temperature and application of applied current, which also increases the power. This changes nothing basic about the process nor reveals how the process works. Ed On Feb 10, 2013, at 3:54 AM, Kevin O'Malley wrote: Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com viahttp://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=enctx=mailanswer=1311182 eskimo.com 11:45 AM (15 hours ago) to vortex-l Edmund Storms https://plus.google.com/u/0/112904824327993917962?prsrc=4 writes: Yes, but all of these processes you describe are done near absolute zero while using complex apparatus. This has no relationship to cold fusion. ***What about KP Sinha’s Laser experiment in LENR ? Laser stimulation of low-energy nuclear reactions in deuterated palladium http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/oct102006/907.pdf On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:33 PM, Axil Axil wrote: Experiments by Piantelli and information about early Rossi systems indicate that a cold LENR system will produce high energy radiation, but a hot system will not. Alix, this statement does not describe the evidence. All we know is what Rossi claims, i.e. that INITIALLY radiation is produced that is reduced as the process continues. Many people have detected radiation under various conditions. How can we understand the physical meaning of these experimental results? It has been shown that coherent EMF in the form of time-dependent potentials can lead to substantial cooling in Bose Einstein condensates in an open system that allows entropy to be removed. Formation of a Bose-Einstein condensate is routinely accomplished by using laser light to cool the system – in laser cooling in the form of scattered photons, in evaporative cooling in the form of discarded atoms. Energy is transferred from atoms to be cooled to atoms which are rejected from the system. In another example, this cooling technique is also used in cooling elements in the formation of clusters. Yes, but all of these processes you describe are done near absolute zero while using complex apparatus. This has no relationship to cold fusion. Ionic clusters consist of a single ion surrounded by one or more neutral molecules. They are created when a gas is cooled. Molecules in the gaseous state are widely separated and move about in continual motion. So widely separated in space are these molecules that they exert no force of attraction upon one another, and although they frequently collide, their kinetic energy is so high they will not stick together. These gas molecules must be cooled to reduce their kinetic energy and associated random motion. As the temperature in the gas drops, however, molecular motion slows and the molecules begin to gather and stick together. Eventually, the motion slows sufficiently for intermolecular forces of attraction to bind the molecules together into clusters that number from a few to a few hundred individual molecules in size. If the number of neutral molecules surrounding the ion in each cluster becomes sufficiently large, an assemblage of clusters will resemble a conventional bulk material--either a liquid or a solid. Three common ways exist to produce clusters: a) Gas aggregation sources: This is the oldest and easiest method for cluster production. Atoms or molecules are evaporated into a flow of rare gas atoms. The evaporated atoms are cooled in collision with the rare gas. When the atoms or molecules loose enough energy the cluster production is started. b) Laser-ablation sources (surface sources, sputtering): Photon or heavy particle impact on a surface leads to the desorption of atoms or molecules. The released atoms or molecules are partially ionized and form plasma. Similar like in the gas aggregation sources the plasma is cooled by present rare gas that removes kinetic energy from the system and cluster formation is achieved c) Supersonic cluster sources: A gas under high pressure is expanded adiabatically through a small nozzle. This is how noble gases are liquefied. In a LENR system where a metal lattice is present, the coherent motion of the lattice will remove kinetic energy from
Re: [Vo]:nanocavities
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net viahttp://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=enctx=mailanswer=1311182 eskimo.com 8:10 AM (5 hours ago) to vortex-l Kevin - I could not open that document, but it sounds similar to the Letts/Cravens effect. Can you post the abstract? I think the paper is here: http://repository.ias.ac.in/64627/1/10-pub.pdf On the Laser Stimulation of Low-Energy Nuclear Reactions in Deuterated Palladium Authors:K. P. Sinhahttp://arxiv.org/find/cond-mat/1/au:+Sinha_K/0/1/0/all/0/1, A. Meulenberghttp://arxiv.org/find/cond-mat/1/au:+Meulenberg_A/0/1/0/all/0/1 (Submitted on 8 Mar 2006 (v1 http://arxiv.org/abs/cond-mat/0603213v1), last revised 20 Oct 2006 (this version, v3)) Abstract: Models to account for the observed experimental results for low-energy nuclear reactions in palladium-deuteride systems are presented along with calculated results. The crucial idea is a mechanism of improved probability for the needed penetration of the Coulomb barrier for a D-D reaction. This facilitation occurs, in general, with the formation of D^- ions at special frequency modes (e.g. via phonons) and, specifically for the laser-stimulated case, with utilization of enhanced optical potential at a selected interface. Both mechanisms may work individually, or together, to increase the probability of barrier penetration. Comments:9 pages, 3 figures, Rev. 1, Significantly enhanced version (resulting from reviewer's comments), Rev. 2, embedded font and smaller file size. Keywords: CMNS, D--D+, LENR, optical-potential, resonance-enhancementSubjects:Other Condensed Matter (cond-mat.other); Materials Science (cond-mat.mtrl-sci); Plasma Physics (physics.plasm-ph)Journal reference:Current Science, Vol. 91, No. 7, 10 October 2006, pp.907-912Cite as:arXiv:cond-mat/0603213 http://arxiv.org/abs/cond-mat/0603213[cond-mat.other] (or arXiv:cond-mat/0603213v3 http://arxiv.org/abs/cond-mat/0603213v3[cond-mat.other]for this version) Submission historyFrom: Surajit Saha [view emailhttp://arxiv.org/auth/show-email/8ba22fe4/cond-mat/0603213 ] *[v1] http://arxiv.org/abs/cond-mat/0603213v1* Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:05:29 GMT (183kb) *[v2] http://arxiv.org/abs/cond-mat/0603213v2* Mon, 16 Oct 2006 12:31:37 GMT (343kb) On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 8:10 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Kevin - I could not open that document, but it sounds similar to the Letts/Cravens effect. Can you post the abstract? The Letts/Cravens effect could end up being more important than anyone realizes if the polariton is involved. Here is a Krivit interview with D.C. on the general subject. http://newenergytimes.com/v2/views/Group1/Cravens.shtml The more important new point in this regard - which I would like to bring up now due to the circumstances relates to the several new papers on room-temperature BEC polaritons... (of a few days ago, here is one of at least 3 similar papers): http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2007/mar/27/polariton-laser-reaches -room-temperaturehttp://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2007/mar/27/polariton-laser-reaches-room-temperature The point is this: how could the Letts/Cravens effect NOT relate to the room-temperature BEC quasiparticle in some important way? It would be most interesting to hear from Dennis Cravens on this. BTW - it turns out that 5 years ago - another important detail in this broader niche emerged - which is the magnetic susceptibility of the host. Turns out that palladium is actually ferromagnetic when loaded with hydrogen - similar to nickel in fact. Here was my take on it back then in 2008 but this was before the polariton angle was found. http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg24020.html In reconsideration of all that we know - with an eye on the future - probably the most robust (but also the most toxic) way to move forward with this combination of Letts/Cravens laser effect in the context of the BEC-polariton - would be with a hybrid LENR/fission device. Yikes. Don't wince just yet, as this could be the lesser of two evils. Fission - despite all its baggage is far preferable to burning coal, and it produces no greenhouse gases, so if fission can be made more desirable then surely the Chinese will substitute it for coal, even if the USA is too advanced for a new and better kind of Uranium fission. This hybrid of LENR and U fission would be a concept which is massively subcritical, uses natural un-enriched metal and in small reactors which could be mass produced - but still needs plenty of shielding. LENR becomes the driving force for Uranium fission, and hydrogen in the matrix replaces of most of the neutron flux which would normally be required. The reactor could be small, but too dirty for use in an automobile; but could be shielded adequately with concrete for use as a local reactor in a factory or office building- in which hot water is free and electricity is cheap with no emissions. This concept would be far more
Re: [Vo]:nanocavities
Eric, It's good to hear Ron Maimon is trying to develop this theory. But, the math is truly confusing, bewildering and intimidating - even to formulate the problem, let alone solve it. When composite particles are involved, calculating tunneling probability is almost intractable - even in free space, much less in condensed matter. A recent paper on composite particle tunneling - Tunneling of a molecule with many bound states in three dimensions http://iopscience.iop.org/0953-4075/46/4/045201 (free - with registration) - (and, the many references it cites) shows how tricky this is. There are some related papers on arxiv.org too. In the case of LENR, I think the empirical trumps the theoretical. -- Lou Pagnucco Eric Walker wrote: On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:08 AM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: While it discusses the extreme focusing of ~1 MeV proton wave-functions, perhaps particles/ions in micro-/nano-channels in zeolites, nano-crevices, nanostructures, ..., experience more wave-function focusing than expected - possibly increasing tunneling probability by dramatically increasing overlap of channel particle wave-functions. Ron Maimon was getting at a similar idea by having two deuterons meet near a palladium spectator nucleus, at the classical turning point where the strength of the positive charge of the palladium nucleus would push the positively charged deuterons back out again. With 20 keV of initial kinetic energy, the deuterons would penetrate the electron shells as far as the K shell before turning around again. At the turning point their de Broglie waves would be enhanced,, or, presumably, focused, and as a result overlap and tunneling would be more likely. Several significant difficulties with this approach were raised which have not yet been brought to Ron's attention. Presumably he would set us straight on what I misunderstood of what he was saying. Eric
Re: [Vo]:nanocavities
The problem Eric is that once the math is solved, the expected nuclear reaction is hot fusion, not cold fusion. Consequently, this effort is a waste of time. This is something the hot fusion field needs to understand to explain the effect of bombarding materials with energetic deuterons. The effort has no application to cold fusion. Ed On Feb 9, 2013, at 9:13 AM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Eric, It's good to hear Ron Maimon is trying to develop this theory. But, the math is truly confusing, bewildering and intimidating - even to formulate the problem, let alone solve it. When composite particles are involved, calculating tunneling probability is almost intractable - even in free space, much less in condensed matter. A recent paper on composite particle tunneling - Tunneling of a molecule with many bound states in three dimensions http://iopscience.iop.org/0953-4075/46/4/045201 (free - with registration) - (and, the many references it cites) shows how tricky this is. There are some related papers on arxiv.org too. In the case of LENR, I think the empirical trumps the theoretical. -- Lou Pagnucco Eric Walker wrote: On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:08 AM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: While it discusses the extreme focusing of ~1 MeV proton wave- functions, perhaps particles/ions in micro-/nano-channels in zeolites, nano-crevices, nanostructures, ..., experience more wave-function focusing than expected - possibly increasing tunneling probability by dramatically increasing overlap of channel particle wave- functions. Ron Maimon was getting at a similar idea by having two deuterons meet near a palladium spectator nucleus, at the classical turning point where the strength of the positive charge of the palladium nucleus would push the positively charged deuterons back out again. With 20 keV of initial kinetic energy, the deuterons would penetrate the electron shells as far as the K shell before turning around again. At the turning point their de Broglie waves would be enhanced,, or, presumably, focused, and as a result overlap and tunneling would be more likely. Several significant difficulties with this approach were raised which have not yet been brought to Ron's attention. Presumably he would set us straight on what I misunderstood of what he was saying. Eric
Re: [Vo]:nanocavities
Ed, I assume you are referring to Maimon's theory, which I am not familiar with. When you say the expected reaction is hot fusion, are you only referring to highly energetic collisions? Do you think the theory X.Z.Li, et al, involving resonant tunneling (at low kinetic energy), allegedly avoiding energetic byproducts, might be correct? Some references -- Deuterium (Hydrogen) Flux Permeating through Palladium and Condensed Matter Nuclear Science http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.edu.cn/LENR%20home%20page/acrobat/WeiQdeuteriumh.pdf A Chinese view on summary of condensed matter nuclear science http://166.111.26.4/JOFE2004Sept.Vol23No3P217.pdf Fusion energy without strong nuclear radiation http://www.springerlink.com/index/w4721655219541kk.pdf Multiple Scattering Theory (MST) and Condensed Matter Nuclear ScienceSuper-Absorption in a Crystal Lattice http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.edu.cn/LENR%20home%20page/acrobat/LiXZmultiplesc.pdf I am agnostic on this topic, and am very interested in your view. -- Lou Pagnucco The problem Eric is that once the math is solved, the expected nuclear reaction is hot fusion, not cold fusion. Consequently, this effort is a waste of time. This is something the hot fusion field needs to understand to explain the effect of bombarding materials with energetic deuterons. The effort has no application to cold fusion. Ed On Feb 9, 2013, at 9:13 AM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Eric, It's good to hear Ron Maimon is trying to develop this theory. But, the math is truly confusing, bewildering and intimidating - even to formulate the problem, let alone solve it. When composite particles are involved, calculating tunneling probability is almost intractable - even in free space, much less in condensed matter. A recent paper on composite particle tunneling - Tunneling of a molecule with many bound states in three dimensions http://iopscience.iop.org/0953-4075/46/4/045201 (free - with registration) - (and, the many references it cites) shows how tricky this is. There are some related papers on arxiv.org too. In the case of LENR, I think the empirical trumps the theoretical. -- Lou Pagnucco Eric Walker wrote: On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:08 AM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: While it discusses the extreme focusing of ~1 MeV proton wave- functions, perhaps particles/ions in micro-/nano-channels in zeolites, nano-crevices, nanostructures, ..., experience more wave-function focusing than expected - possibly increasing tunneling probability by dramatically increasing overlap of channel particle wave- functions. Ron Maimon was getting at a similar idea by having two deuterons meet near a palladium spectator nucleus, at the classical turning point where the strength of the positive charge of the palladium nucleus would push the positively charged deuterons back out again. With 20 keV of initial kinetic energy, the deuterons would penetrate the electron shells as far as the K shell before turning around again. At the turning point their de Broglie waves would be enhanced,, or, presumably, focused, and as a result overlap and tunneling would be more likely. Several significant difficulties with this approach were raised which have not yet been brought to Ron's attention. Presumably he would set us straight on what I misunderstood of what he was saying. Eric
Re: [Vo]:nanocavities
Lou, Any theory that proposes to use tunneling based on electrons being concentrated must at the same time show how the resulting energy is dissipated. Such energy is dissipated normally by the fusion product breaking into two parts, which go off with high energy in directions required to conserve momentum. This is called hot fusion and it is well known and understood. In contrast, during cold fusion the fusion product does not fragment. It remains as He, but without the gamma emission as is required to dissipate the energy. To be consistent with this observation, a theory MUST explain how this nuclear energy is dissipated. Simply proposing a process to overcome the barrier without showing how the next step violates normal behavior is not useful in explaining cold fusion. The Maimon theory is ok if it is used to explain hot fusion because this is what would be expected and what has been observed when tunneling conditions have been created. People have to accept that hot fusion and cold fusion are two entirely different phenomenon that play by different rules. Confusion keeps being produced by trying to mix these two different effects. Ed On Feb 9, 2013, at 10:09 AM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Ed, I assume you are referring to Maimon's theory, which I am not familiar with. When you say the expected reaction is hot fusion, are you only referring to highly energetic collisions? Do you think the theory X.Z.Li, et al, involving resonant tunneling (at low kinetic energy), allegedly avoiding energetic byproducts, might be correct? Some references -- Deuterium (Hydrogen) Flux Permeating through Palladium and Condensed Matter Nuclear Science http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.edu.cn/LENR%20home%20page/acrobat/WeiQdeuteriumh.pdf A Chinese view on summary of condensed matter nuclear science http://166.111.26.4/JOFE2004Sept.Vol23No3P217.pdf Fusion energy without strong nuclear radiation http://www.springerlink.com/index/w4721655219541kk.pdf Multiple Scattering Theory (MST) and Condensed Matter Nuclear Science—“Super-Absorption” in a Crystal Lattice— http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.edu.cn/LENR%20home%20page/acrobat/LiXZmultiplesc.pdf I am agnostic on this topic, and am very interested in your view. -- Lou Pagnucco The problem Eric is that once the math is solved, the expected nuclear reaction is hot fusion, not cold fusion. Consequently, this effort is a waste of time. This is something the hot fusion field needs to understand to explain the effect of bombarding materials with energetic deuterons. The effort has no application to cold fusion. Ed On Feb 9, 2013, at 9:13 AM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Eric, It's good to hear Ron Maimon is trying to develop this theory. But, the math is truly confusing, bewildering and intimidating - even to formulate the problem, let alone solve it. When composite particles are involved, calculating tunneling probability is almost intractable - even in free space, much less in condensed matter. A recent paper on composite particle tunneling - Tunneling of a molecule with many bound states in three dimensions http://iopscience.iop.org/0953-4075/46/4/045201 (free - with registration) - (and, the many references it cites) shows how tricky this is. There are some related papers on arxiv.org too. In the case of LENR, I think the empirical trumps the theoretical. -- Lou Pagnucco Eric Walker wrote: On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:08 AM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: While it discusses the extreme focusing of ~1 MeV proton wave- functions, perhaps particles/ions in micro-/nano-channels in zeolites, nano-crevices, nanostructures, ..., experience more wave-function focusing than expected - possibly increasing tunneling probability by dramatically increasing overlap of channel particle wave- functions. Ron Maimon was getting at a similar idea by having two deuterons meet near a palladium spectator nucleus, at the classical turning point where the strength of the positive charge of the palladium nucleus would push the positively charged deuterons back out again. With 20 keV of initial kinetic energy, the deuterons would penetrate the electron shells as far as the K shell before turning around again. At the turning point their de Broglie waves would be enhanced,, or, presumably, focused, and as a result overlap and tunneling would be more likely. Several significant difficulties with this approach were raised which have not yet been brought to Ron's attention. Presumably he would set us straight on what I misunderstood of what he was saying. Eric
Re: [Vo]:nanocavities
Experiments by Piantelli and information about early Rossi systems indicate that a cold LENR system will produce high energy radiation, but a hot system will not. How can we understand the physical meaning of these experimental results? It has been shown that coherent EMF in the form of time-dependent potentials can lead to substantial cooling in Bose Einstein condensates in an open system that allows entropy to be removed. Formation of a Bose-Einstein condensate is routinely accomplished by using laser light to cool the system – in laser cooling in the form of scattered photons, in evaporative cooling in the form of discarded atoms. Energy is transferred from atoms to be cooled to atoms which are rejected from the system. In another example, this cooling technique is also used in cooling elements in the formation of clusters. Ionic clusters consist of a single ion surrounded by one or more neutral molecules. They are created when a gas is cooled. Molecules in the gaseous state are widely separated and move about in continual motion. So widely separated in space are these molecules that they exert no force of attraction upon one another, and although they frequently collide, their kinetic energy is so high they will not stick together. These gas molecules must be cooled to reduce their kinetic energy and associated random motion. As the temperature in the gas drops, however, molecular motion slows and the molecules begin to gather and stick together. Eventually, the motion slows sufficiently for intermolecular forces of attraction to bind the molecules together into clusters that number from a few to a few hundred individual molecules in size. If the number of neutral molecules surrounding the ion in each cluster becomes sufficiently large, an assemblage of clusters will resemble a conventional bulk material--either a liquid or a solid. Three common ways exist to produce clusters: a) Gas aggregation sources: This is the oldest and easiest method for cluster production. Atoms or molecules are evaporated into a flow of rare gas atoms. The evaporated atoms are cooled in collision with the rare gas. When the atoms or molecules loose enough energy the cluster production is started. b) Laser-ablation sources (surface sources, sputtering): Photon or heavy particle impact on a surface leads to the desorption of atoms or molecules. The released atoms or molecules are partially ionized and form plasma. Similar like in the gas aggregation sources the plasma is cooled by present rare gas that removes kinetic energy from the system and cluster formation is achieved c) Supersonic cluster sources: A gas under high pressure is expanded adiabatically through a small nozzle. This is how noble gases are liquefied. In a LENR system where a metal lattice is present, the coherent motion of the lattice will remove kinetic energy from the active nuclear sites containing the Bose-Einstein condensates by rejecting kinetic energy produced in these structures by nuclear processes contained the metal lattice. If the coherent motion of the lattice is not robust enough, the radiation produced by the nuclear reactions will be unmodified by the cold lattice and escape as gamma rays. Cheers: Axil On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Lou, Any theory that proposes to use tunneling based on electrons being concentrated must at the same time show how the resulting energy is dissipated. Such energy is dissipated normally by the fusion product breaking into two parts, which go off with high energy in directions required to conserve momentum. This is called hot fusion and it is well known and understood. In contrast, during cold fusion the fusion product does not fragment. It remains as He, but without the gamma emission as is required to dissipate the energy. To be consistent with this observation, a theory MUST explain how this nuclear energy is dissipated. Simply proposing a process to overcome the barrier without showing how the next step violates normal behavior is not useful in explaining cold fusion. The Maimon theory is ok if it is used to explain hot fusion because this is what would be expected and what has been observed when tunneling conditions have been created. People have to accept that hot fusion and cold fusion are two entirely different phenomenon that play by different rules. Confusion keeps being produced by trying to mix these two different effects. Ed On Feb 9, 2013, at 10:09 AM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Ed, I assume you are referring to Maimon's theory, which I am not familiar with. When you say the expected reaction is hot fusion, are you only referring to highly energetic collisions? Do you think the theory X.Z.Li, et al, involving resonant tunneling (at low kinetic energy), allegedly avoiding energetic byproducts, might be correct? Some references -- Deuterium (Hydrogen) Flux Permeating through
Re: [Vo]:nanocavities
On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:33 PM, Axil Axil wrote: Experiments by Piantelli and information about early Rossi systems indicate that a cold LENR system will produce high energy radiation, but a hot system will not. Alix, this statement does not describe the evidence. All we know is what Rossi claims, i.e. that INITIALLY radiation is produced that is reduced as the process continues. Many people have detected radiation under various conditions. How can we understand the physical meaning of these experimental results? It has been shown that coherent EMF in the form of time-dependent potentials can lead to substantial cooling in Bose Einstein condensates in an open system that allows entropy to be removed. Formation of a Bose-Einstein condensate is routinely accomplished by using laser light to cool the system – in laser cooling in the form of scattered photons, in evaporative cooling in the form of discarded atoms. Energy is transferred from atoms to be cooled to atoms which are rejected from the system. In another example, this cooling technique is also used in cooling elements in the formation of clusters. Yes, but all of these processes you describe are done near absolute zero while using complex apparatus. This has no relationship to cold fusion. Ionic clusters consist of a single ion surrounded by one or more neutral molecules. They are created when a gas is cooled. Molecules in the gaseous state are widely separated and move about in continual motion. So widely separated in space are these molecules that they exert no force of attraction upon one another, and although they frequently collide, their kinetic energy is so high they will not stick together. These gas molecules must be cooled to reduce their kinetic energy and associated random motion. As the temperature in the gas drops, however, molecular motion slows and the molecules begin to gather and stick together. Eventually, the motion slows sufficiently for intermolecular forces of attraction to bind the molecules together into clusters that number from a few to a few hundred individual molecules in size. If the number of neutral molecules surrounding the ion in each cluster becomes sufficiently large, an assemblage of clusters will resemble a conventional bulk material--either a liquid or a solid. Three common ways exist to produce clusters: a) Gas aggregation sources: This is the oldest and easiest method for cluster production. Atoms or molecules are evaporated into a flow of rare gas atoms. The evaporated atoms are cooled in collision with the rare gas. When the atoms or molecules loose enough energy the cluster production is started. b) Laser-ablation sources (surface sources, sputtering): Photon or heavy particle impact on a surface leads to the desorption of atoms or molecules. The released atoms or molecules are partially ionized and form plasma. Similar like in the gas aggregation sources the plasma is cooled by present rare gas that removes kinetic energy from the system and cluster formation is achieved c) Supersonic cluster sources: A gas under high pressure is expanded adiabatically through a small nozzle. This is how noble gases are liquefied. In a LENR system where a metal lattice is present, the coherent motion of the lattice will remove kinetic energy from the active nuclear sites containing the Bose-Einstein condensates by rejecting kinetic energy produced in these structures by nuclear processes contained the metal lattice. This description has no justification in theory or in observation. Coherent motion of atoms does no occur spontaneously in a lattice. If the coherent motion of the lattice is not robust enough, the radiation produced by the nuclear reactions will be unmodified by the cold lattice and escape as gamma rays. I have no idea what you are describing by the above comment. Ed Cheers: Axil On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Lou, Any theory that proposes to use tunneling based on electrons being concentrated must at the same time show how the resulting energy is dissipated. Such energy is dissipated normally by the fusion product breaking into two parts, which go off with high energy in directions required to conserve momentum. This is called hot fusion and it is well known and understood. In contrast, during cold fusion the fusion product does not fragment. It remains as He, but without the gamma emission as is required to dissipate the energy. To be consistent with this observation, a theory MUST explain how this nuclear energy is dissipated. Simply proposing a process to overcome the barrier without showing how the next step violates normal behavior is not useful in explaining cold fusion. The Maimon theory is ok if it is used to explain hot fusion because this is what would be expected and
Re: [Vo]:nanocavities
*Yes, but all of these processes you describe are done near absolute zero while using complex apparatus. This has no relationship to cold fusion.* http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/02/bose-einstein-condensate-created-at-room-temperature/ From the article: Bose-Einstein condensate created at room temperature The current study embedded a very thin wire—a nanowire—in a cavity designed to produce standing waves of microwave photons. The nanowire was an alloy of aluminum, gallium, and nitrogen, but with varying amounts of aluminum. The irregular composition created a de facto trap for the polaritons. A wire of uniform composition couldn't form a BEC—fluctuations within the material would destroy the condensation, even at low temperatures. To bypass this, the researchers gradually decreased the amount of aluminum in the alloy to zero in the center of the nanowire, then bookended the aluminum-free segment with a region containing a relatively high amount of aluminum. The microwaves from the cavity interacted with the material, generating polaritons. These drifted preferentially along the wire toward the aluminum-free zone, where they collected and condensed. In other words, the electronic properties of the material itself replaced the need for cooling, allowing the quasiparticles to gather and condense into a BEC. The experimenters confirmed this effect by detecting the telltale light emission. As in your theory about cracks: topological material considerations provide the needed mechanism to form the condensate. In addition, Superconductivity has been found to exist in one dimensional topological materials at temperatures as high as 700C These topological materials can produce conditions at high temperatures that have heretofore only been studied at very low temperatures using complex apparatus. This is similar in concept to how materials can be engineered to produce high temperature superconductivity. In this respect, LENR and superconductivity are similar. Cheers: Axil On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:33 PM, Axil Axil wrote: Experiments by Piantelli and information about early Rossi systems indicate that a cold LENR system will produce high energy radiation, but a hot system will not. Alix, this statement does not describe the evidence. All we know is what Rossi claims, i.e. that INITIALLY radiation is produced that is reduced as the process continues. Many people have detected radiation under various conditions. How can we understand the physical meaning of these experimental results? It has been shown that coherent EMF in the form of time-dependent potentials can lead to substantial cooling in Bose Einstein condensates in an open system that allows entropy to be removed. Formation of a Bose-Einstein condensate is routinely accomplished by using laser light to cool the system – in laser cooling in the form of scattered photons, in evaporative cooling in the form of discarded atoms. Energy is transferred from atoms to be cooled to atoms which are rejected from the system. In another example, this cooling technique is also used in cooling elements in the formation of clusters. Yes, but all of these processes you describe are done near absolute zero while using complex apparatus. This has no relationship to cold fusion. Ionic clusters consist of a single ion surrounded by one or more neutral molecules. They are created when a gas is cooled. Molecules in the gaseous state are widely separated and move about in continual motion. So widely separated in space are these molecules that they exert no force of attraction upon one another, and although they frequently collide, their kinetic energy is so high they will not stick together. These gas molecules must be cooled to reduce their kinetic energy and associated random motion. As the temperature in the gas drops, however, molecular motion slows and the molecules begin to gather and stick together. Eventually, the motion slows sufficiently for intermolecular forces of attraction to bind the molecules together into clusters that number from a few to a few hundred individual molecules in size. If the number of neutral molecules surrounding the ion in each cluster becomes sufficiently large, an assemblage of clusters will resemble a conventional bulk material--either a liquid or a solid. Three common ways exist to produce clusters: a) Gas aggregation sources: This is the oldest and easiest method for cluster production. Atoms or molecules are evaporated into a flow of rare gas atoms. The evaporated atoms are cooled in collision with the rare gas. When the atoms or molecules loose enough energy the cluster production is started. b) Laser-ablation sources (surface sources, sputtering): Photon or heavy particle impact on a surface leads to the desorption of atoms or molecules. The released atoms or molecules
Re: [Vo]:nanocavities
*This description has no justification in theory or in observation. Coherent motion of atoms does no occur spontaneously in a lattice.* Here is where the size of the micro-particle becomes important. A 5 micron particle will resonate coherently at a temperature of about 400C, Nano particles will not work well in LENR because there thermal vibrations will not resonate at the proper temperature range. Cheers: Axil On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:33 PM, Axil Axil wrote: Experiments by Piantelli and information about early Rossi systems indicate that a cold LENR system will produce high energy radiation, but a hot system will not. Alix, this statement does not describe the evidence. All we know is what Rossi claims, i.e. that INITIALLY radiation is produced that is reduced as the process continues. Many people have detected radiation under various conditions. How can we understand the physical meaning of these experimental results? It has been shown that coherent EMF in the form of time-dependent potentials can lead to substantial cooling in Bose Einstein condensates in an open system that allows entropy to be removed. Formation of a Bose-Einstein condensate is routinely accomplished by using laser light to cool the system – in laser cooling in the form of scattered photons, in evaporative cooling in the form of discarded atoms. Energy is transferred from atoms to be cooled to atoms which are rejected from the system. In another example, this cooling technique is also used in cooling elements in the formation of clusters. Yes, but all of these processes you describe are done near absolute zero while using complex apparatus. This has no relationship to cold fusion. Ionic clusters consist of a single ion surrounded by one or more neutral molecules. They are created when a gas is cooled. Molecules in the gaseous state are widely separated and move about in continual motion. So widely separated in space are these molecules that they exert no force of attraction upon one another, and although they frequently collide, their kinetic energy is so high they will not stick together. These gas molecules must be cooled to reduce their kinetic energy and associated random motion. As the temperature in the gas drops, however, molecular motion slows and the molecules begin to gather and stick together. Eventually, the motion slows sufficiently for intermolecular forces of attraction to bind the molecules together into clusters that number from a few to a few hundred individual molecules in size. If the number of neutral molecules surrounding the ion in each cluster becomes sufficiently large, an assemblage of clusters will resemble a conventional bulk material--either a liquid or a solid. Three common ways exist to produce clusters: a) Gas aggregation sources: This is the oldest and easiest method for cluster production. Atoms or molecules are evaporated into a flow of rare gas atoms. The evaporated atoms are cooled in collision with the rare gas. When the atoms or molecules loose enough energy the cluster production is started. b) Laser-ablation sources (surface sources, sputtering): Photon or heavy particle impact on a surface leads to the desorption of atoms or molecules. The released atoms or molecules are partially ionized and form plasma. Similar like in the gas aggregation sources the plasma is cooled by present rare gas that removes kinetic energy from the system and cluster formation is achieved c) Supersonic cluster sources: A gas under high pressure is expanded adiabatically through a small nozzle. This is how noble gases are liquefied. In a LENR system where a metal lattice is present, the coherent motion of the lattice will remove kinetic energy from the active nuclear sites containing the Bose-Einstein condensates by rejecting kinetic energy produced in these structures by nuclear processes contained the metal lattice. This description has no justification in theory or in observation. Coherent motion of atoms does no occur spontaneously in a lattice. If the coherent motion of the lattice is not robust enough, the radiation produced by the nuclear reactions will be unmodified by the cold lattice and escape as gamma rays. I have no idea what you are describing by the above comment. Ed Cheers: Axil On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: Lou, Any theory that proposes to use tunneling based on electrons being concentrated must at the same time show how the resulting energy is dissipated. Such energy is dissipated normally by the fusion product breaking into two parts, which go off with high energy in directions required to conserve momentum. This is called hot fusion and it is well known and understood. In contrast, during cold fusion the fusion product does not fragment. It remains as
Re: [Vo]:nanocavities
*If the coherent motion of the lattice is not robust enough, the radiation produced by the nuclear reactions will be unmodified by the cold lattice and escape as gamma rays.* *I have no idea what you are describing by the above comment.* In my post titled “Right Sizing Nickel Particles” I address this issue. If the temperature does not reach the black body resonant temperature of the micro-particle, gamma radiation will be produced. Here is the referenced post: In physics, Planck's law describes the amount of energy emitted by a black body in radiation of a certain wavelength (i.e. the spectral radiance of a black body). The law is named after Max Planck, who originally proposed it in 1900. The law was the first to accurately describe black body radiation, and resolved the ultraviolet catastrophe. It is a pioneer result of modern physics and quantum theory. For a given black body temperature, the wavelength at the peak of the Planck curve is called maximum lambda. This value gives a fell for the minimum relative size that an radiating object must be to optimally support photons associated with a give temperature. Like and antenna, a particle of nickel will best support the photons at a given temperature if the particle size is the adjusted to the ideal size. For a temperature of 700k or about 400C, the Lambda(max) must be 4.14 microns. This is why Rossi uses very large micro sized nickel particles in his reactor. Nano sized particles will not properly support the ideal photon wavelength needed to force protons into quantum mechanical coherence. Rossi undoubtedly found this optimal size through trial and error but science is easier. For a Planck function Infrared Radiance Calculator see the following: https://www.sensiac.org/external/resources/calculators/infrared_radiance_calculator.jsf%3bjsessionid=D08873244D6904EE654DBCDF0391F95E On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:33 PM, Axil Axil wrote: Experiments by Piantelli and information about early Rossi systems indicate that a cold LENR system will produce high energy radiation, but a hot system will not. Alix, this statement does not describe the evidence. All we know is what Rossi claims, i.e. that INITIALLY radiation is produced that is reduced as the process continues. Many people have detected radiation under various conditions. How can we understand the physical meaning of these experimental results? It has been shown that coherent EMF in the form of time-dependent potentials can lead to substantial cooling in Bose Einstein condensates in an open system that allows entropy to be removed. Formation of a Bose-Einstein condensate is routinely accomplished by using laser light to cool the system – in laser cooling in the form of scattered photons, in evaporative cooling in the form of discarded atoms. Energy is transferred from atoms to be cooled to atoms which are rejected from the system. In another example, this cooling technique is also used in cooling elements in the formation of clusters. Yes, but all of these processes you describe are done near absolute zero while using complex apparatus. This has no relationship to cold fusion. Ionic clusters consist of a single ion surrounded by one or more neutral molecules. They are created when a gas is cooled. Molecules in the gaseous state are widely separated and move about in continual motion. So widely separated in space are these molecules that they exert no force of attraction upon one another, and although they frequently collide, their kinetic energy is so high they will not stick together. These gas molecules must be cooled to reduce their kinetic energy and associated random motion. As the temperature in the gas drops, however, molecular motion slows and the molecules begin to gather and stick together. Eventually, the motion slows sufficiently for intermolecular forces of attraction to bind the molecules together into clusters that number from a few to a few hundred individual molecules in size. If the number of neutral molecules surrounding the ion in each cluster becomes sufficiently large, an assemblage of clusters will resemble a conventional bulk material--either a liquid or a solid. Three common ways exist to produce clusters: a) Gas aggregation sources: This is the oldest and easiest method for cluster production. Atoms or molecules are evaporated into a flow of rare gas atoms. The evaporated atoms are cooled in collision with the rare gas. When the atoms or molecules loose enough energy the cluster production is started. b) Laser-ablation sources (surface sources, sputtering): Photon or heavy particle impact on a surface leads to the desorption of atoms or molecules. The released atoms or molecules are partially ionized and form plasma. Similar like in the gas aggregation sources the plasma is cooled by present rare gas that removes kinetic
Re: [Vo]:nanocavities
Hi Ed, On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Any theory that proposes to use tunneling based on electrons being concentrated must at the same time show how the resulting energy is dissipated. This appears to be different from what Ron Maimon is proposing. The connection between electrons and what he's describing is the Auger process, not screening, per se. Such energy is dissipated normally by the fusion product breaking into two parts, which go off with high energy in directions required to conserve momentum. This is called hot fusion and it is well known and understood. I'm agnostic with regard to any fundamental distinction between hot fusion and cold fusion, although I believe by this you mean primarily that hot fusion has certain byproducts which are different from what is seen in cold fusion. This point concerning evidence is very important and is well taken. Ron is suggesting that the deuterons, in fusing in the immediate vicinity of the palladium spectator nucleus (at a distance of the K shell), achieve two things that are not normally seen in hot fusion: 1. The resulting energy of the fusion is shared with the palladium spectator nucleus, such that there is no gamma for the d+d - 4He branch, but instead a transfer of momentum to two things -- the palladium nucleus, on one hand, and the resulting alpha, on the other. 2. The other d+d branches, namely d+d - t+p and d+d - 3He+n, are suppressed. Item (2) is something we reverse engineered as a requirement of his description in an earlier thread on Vortex, and it is possible that he explicitly addresses it somewhere, although I do not recall where this was done. He's too familiar with the math and the physics of the system to have overlooked item (2), but I am interested to know more about how he proposes to bring it about. The electrons enter into this description via the Auger process. When an x-ray interacts with a lattice atom, often an electron will be ejected via the photoelectric effect, and then you might get a follow-on Auger cascade. Ron is saying that the math also leaves open the possibility that the electron hole created by the incoming x-ray will decay by imparting energy to a nearby deuterium nucleus, creating an Auger deuteron. If an x-ray ejects a K-shell electron and creates a K-shell electron hole, the resulting transfer of energy to the deuterium nucleus would be ~20 keV. If Ron is correct and has not overlooked something important, the main byproducts will be heat, 4He, soft x-rays and a side channel of transmutations above and below the mass of palladium, which are useful for understanding the system but do not provide the main source of energy. The energy is largely dissipated in the system in the form of the momenta of the 4He and the palladium lattice atoms. There are several problems left open by this description, many or most of which are no doubt due to limitations in my own understanding, which Robin has been adept at calling out. For a layman's overview of Ron's approach, see [1]. I see that Ron has recently clarified a few points in a comment to that blog post. I appreciate that there are various theories out there of differing levels of plausibility, and it is easy for one's eyes to glaze over when reading an abstract of yet another theory, but Ron's approach seems well worth taking the additional time to understand. Personally, I have no strong investment in a mathematical description of these systems, and I am not persuaded of much in hearing that the quantum field theory equations for a given system are easy or hard to solve -- I get the distinct impression that any analytical solutions will be useful here primarily as a post hoc way of refining one's numerical model of the system, something that has been arrived at only after the basics have already been worked out qualitatively. It is the qualitative description that is most of interest to me at this point. Eric [1] http://rolling-balance.blogspot.com/2013/01/ron-maimons-theory.html
RE: [Vo]:nanocavities
This is coincidental to the BEC paper mentioned by Axil yesterday. From: Peter Gluck Can this: Nanoscopic Microcavities Offer Newfound Control in Light Filtering: Unique Nanostructure Produces Novel 'Plasmonic Halos': http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130207150907.htm?goback=%2Egde_ 1807453_member_212276134 be of any use/inspirtion for Ed Storms' LENR theory? Peter Here is the prior citation: http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/02/bose-einstein-condensate-created-at-r oom-temperature/ http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/01/29/1210842110 In fact this could be important for LENR at the theoretical level, should it be broad enough to include other boson quasiparticles, such as the magnon. The definitions are similar: polaritons are quasiparticles resulting from strong coupling of electromagnetic waves with an electric or magnetic dipole-carrying excitation. The magnon could be imagined to be the subset of that - where the coupling is only magnetic. However, it may be only a partial subset with other features included. Polaritons describe the dispersion of light (photons) with an interacting phonon resonance; while the magnon would describe the dispersion of spin current with an interacting resonance. Using the same general terms, superconductivity where the Cooper pair is the boson, would describe the dispersion of charge within an interacting phonon resonance. (the last is my interpretation, which may not be correct). Thus we have a linking of three BEC phenomena which may happen either at room temperature or close- in the case of the RTSC. From: Axil Axil http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/02/bose-einstein-condensate-created-at-r oom-temperature/ Bose-Einstein condensate created at room temperature Can those interested in LENR draw any lessons from this formulation? Cheers:Axil attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:nanocavities
Peter, You may also be interested in the following paper on nanochannels - CHANNELING, SUPERFOCUSING, AND NUCLEAR REACTIONS - Yu N. Demkov http://144.206.159.178/FT/8304/558634/11919154.pdf While it discusses the extreme focusing of ~1 MeV proton wave-functions, perhaps particles/ions in micro-/nano-channels in zeolites, nano-crevices, nanostructures, ..., experience more wave-function focusing than expected - possibly increasing tunneling probability by dramatically increasing overlap of channel particle wave-functions. Peter Hagelstein recently noted that fusion probability is directly related to wave-function overlap, and it is certainly responsible for muon-catalyzed fusion, electron-capture, etc. An excerpt from the paper: ... The radius of this focus can be in principle very small, less than 10^#8722;2 nm. This looks fantastically small and is even less than the thermal vibrational amplitude of a single atom in the lattice. Such a possibility occurs because the geometrical position of the channel relative to the lattice can be defined much better than the position of a single atom in a lattice which can be estimated by the amplitude of its thermal vibrations. This is also connected with the long-range order within the lattice and with essential coupling of this order with the channel. So we have a needle-like focusing area where the flux density of particles increases hundreds and even thousand times relative to the initial one outside of the lattice! Such an unprecedented sharpness of the focusing peak allows us to call this effect the super-focusing ... -- Lou Pagnucco Peter Gluck wrote: Can this: Nanoscopic Microcavities Offer Newfound Control in Light Filtering: Unique Nanostructure Produces Novel 'Plasmonic Halos': http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130207150907.htm?goback=%2Egde_1807453_member_212276134 be of any use/inspirtion for Ed Storms' LENR theory? Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:nanocavities
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:08 AM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: While it discusses the extreme focusing of ~1 MeV proton wave-functions, perhaps particles/ions in micro-/nano-channels in zeolites, nano-crevices, nanostructures, ..., experience more wave-function focusing than expected - possibly increasing tunneling probability by dramatically increasing overlap of channel particle wave-functions. Ron Maimon was getting at a similar idea by having two deuterons meet near a palladium spectator nucleus, at the classical turning point where the strength of the positive charge of the palladium nucleus would push the positively charged deuterons back out again. With 20 keV of initial kinetic energy, the deuterons would penetrate the electron shells as far as the K shell before turning around again. At the turning point their de Broglie waves would be enhanced,, or, presumably, focused, and as a result overlap and tunneling would be more likely. Several significant difficulties with this approach were raised which have not yet been brought to Ron's attention. Presumably he would set us straight on what I misunderstood of what he was saying. Eric
