Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
OK Harry, perhaps I took his comment the wrong way. I value your ideas and hope that you keep spreading them my direction. There is no place on this list for personal insults. Dave -Original Message- From: Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 1:46 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory dave, I am not offended. I find his reaction kinda funny. On this list we are allowed to think outside our respective disciplines... or self-disciplines ;-) harry On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 1:29 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Harry, please do not be offended by that guy. Remember, I was not able to teach him elementary electronic theory. Dave -Original Message- From: Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 1:19 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory Please read what I write. I drew an analogy between the two types of circuits diagrams. Harry On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 1:13 AM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: I think you are ridiculously irrational. Look at the circuit diagram. What precisely is wrong with you? That you are not an EE and cannot interpret the funny symbols? Good grief. There sure are some ripe steamers on this list. Roberson was bad enough. Then there's ...ah fergeddit. Andrew - Original Message - From: Harry Veeder To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory I think you are bluffing. harry On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: It's a capacitor in parallel with a resistor. I am underwhelmed. Andrew - Original Message - From: Harry Veeder To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory The diagram reminds me of constructions consisting of springs and dashpots in series and parallel which are used to model viscoelastic materials. see e.g. http://gertrude-old.case.edu/276/materials/5.fig/05.htm6.gif http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0023643808000790-gr1.jpg His circuit diagram could be considered an electric model of force interaction at the atomic scale within the Ecat's fuel. harry On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: Let's make sure I understand these 4 plots. I understand your diagram thus: The blue square wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green double exponential. The blue triangular wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green curve that looks very like the power curve in the report. The toy model describes a thermal simulation which translates electrical input to the device to radiant power output. OK so far? Assuming yes, here's what I think you've shown. The control box consumes power as a square wave (which is what the report measures on the input side), and outputs a triangular wave to the device. The device's output power profile (radiant heat) comes out as per the report. Bazinga. The only problem is that the cable between the control box and the device contains secrets. That's your next reverse-engineering mission :) Andrew - Original Message - From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory From: Andrew andrew...@att.net Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:53:45 PM That's a nice piece of reverse engineering - Kudos. My only issue with it is the plot in the report, which definitely shows square waves. Mind you, these were measured on the input side of the control box. So it's possible you've uncovered a secret about the actual drive waveform. The square waves are the INPUT stimulus. The wavy line (eg plot 8) is the OUTPUT power. But the general shape will be similar. (I displayed voltage
RE: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
Harry/Dave: Andrew is borderline pathological skeptic. when challenged by Dave to do a Spice model so they could compare them to see if they get the same results, and if not, why, what does Andrew do? He starts with the insults and name calling. Typical for a pathoskep who is called out on the carpet and has no place to hide, so he attacks the opponent personally. tries to propagate the perception that his opponent is not competent. Fortunately, postings on this forum cannot be deleted/edited, and forum members can make up their own minds as to who is right/wrong; as will history. -Mark Iverson From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 11:06 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory OK Harry, perhaps I took his comment the wrong way. I value your ideas and hope that you keep spreading them my direction. There is no place on this list for personal insults. Dave -Original Message- From: Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 1:46 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory dave, I am not offended. I find his reaction kinda funny. On this list we are allowed to think outside our respective disciplines... or self-disciplines ;-) harry On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 1:29 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Harry, please do not be offended by that guy. Remember, I was not able to teach him elementary electronic theory. Dave -Original Message- From: Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 1:19 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory Please read what I write. I drew an analogy between the two types of circuits diagrams. Harry On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 1:13 AM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: I think you are ridiculously irrational. Look at the circuit diagram. What precisely is wrong with you? That you are not an EE and cannot interpret the funny symbols? Good grief. There sure are some ripe steamers on this list. Roberson was bad enough. Then there's ...ah fergeddit. Andrew - Original Message - From: Harry Veeder mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory I think you are bluffing. harry On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: It's a capacitor in parallel with a resistor. I am underwhelmed. Andrew - Original Message - From: Harry Veeder mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory The diagram reminds me of constructions consisting of springs and dashpots in series and parallel which are used to model viscoelastic materials. see e.g. http://gertrude-old.case.edu/276/materials/5.fig/05.htm6.gif http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0023643808000790-gr1.jpg His circuit diagram could be considered an electric model of force interaction at the atomic scale within the Ecat's fuel. harry On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: Let's make sure I understand these 4 plots. I understand your diagram thus: The blue square wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green double exponential. The blue triangular wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green curve that looks very like the power curve in the report. The toy model describes a thermal simulation which translates electrical input to the device to radiant power output. OK so far? Assuming yes, here's what I think you've shown. The control box consumes power as a square wave (which is what the report measures on the input side), and outputs a triangular wave to the device. The device's output power profile (radiant heat) comes out as per the report. Bazinga. The only problem is that the cable between the control box and the device contains secrets. That's your next reverse-engineering mission :) Andrew - Original Message - From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory From: Andrew andrew...@att.net Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:53:45 PM That's a nice piece of reverse engineering - Kudos. My only issue with it is the plot in the report, which definitely shows square waves. Mind you
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
I think the analysis of the curve shapes is gross over-interpretation. First of all, it's not clear from the paper that the square wave at the input really represents a measurement, or an artist's conception. As far as I understand, it's taken from the video, but all they really say is what the peak value is, and what the cycle timing is. They don't say it drops to zero between the peaks, and they don't say how rapidly the change is. I got the impression that they just drew a square waving using the measured cycle times and the peak voltage. Second, we don't know what other loads may be in the circuit inside the box, since there is no measurement on the output of the box. The observed cycling of the temperature is entirely consistent with a cycling on the input to the ecat between two levels very far from zero, and therefore representing much higher input power than claimed. And the cheese video shows how easy it would be to fool the meters into showing zero input during part of the cycle. It doesn't mean they used the same method, only that meters are not difficult to trick. Since it's clear the wiring was set up by Rossi, since it was already running when they came in, there is no transparency here at all. The blank run used a different power regimen. What's the use of that? It's a first class farce. Nothing more. On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: http://lenr.qumbu.com/130528_waveform_04.png The strange shape results because the eCat's heat is not a square-wave response: it's triangular. The actual shape is probably a superposition of the square-wave (resistor heating) and triangular (ecat). (My curve shows what happens when the on/off cycle is too slow.)
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 2:18 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Harry/Dave: Andrew is borderline pathological skeptic… when challenged by Dave to do a Spice model so they could compare them to see if they get the same results, and if not, why, what does Andrew do? He starts with the insults and name calling. Typical for a pathoskep who is called out on the carpet and has no place to hide, so he attacks the opponent personally… tries to propagate the perception that his opponent is not competent. Fortunately, postings on this forum cannot be deleted/edited, and forum members can make up their own minds as to who is right/wrong; as will history. It was his calling Dave's modelling efforts a toy that ticked me off. I don't think Andrew, EE, will bother us in the future. ;)
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: http://lenr.qumbu.com/130528_waveform_04.png The strange shape results because the eCat's heat is not a square-wave response: it's triangular. Do you mean the net heat output, from joule heating plus anomalous heat? Are you saying it is a highly regular triangle?!? I suppose not. Just that in general a triangular wave of heat would make this kind of wave form. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:19:10 PM Do you mean the net heat output, from joule heating plus anomalous heat? Do you mean the net heat output, from joule heating plus anomalous heat? No, the net heat INPUT, from joule heating plus anomalous heat. The capacitance represent the specific heat * volume, and the resistors to AMBIENT represent the convective and radiative OUTPUT. Are you saying it is a highly regular triangle?!? I suppose not. Just that in general a triangular wave of heat would make this kind of wave form. In this run I applied the joule heating and the anomalous heating separated in time. Now I need to combine the two by applying the two pulses (square and triangular) in an overlapping pattern before it decays. (I've previously convinced myself that the T^4 variation of radiation isn't significant in determining the shape of the pulse).. Oh ... and what happens when (as Siegel etc .. demand) you turn off the controller? Duh : it'll just decay as shown on the right !
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: Do you mean the net heat output, from joule heating plus anomalous heat? No, the net heat INPUT, from joule heating plus anomalous heat. That's what I meant to say. Input. The electric power input is presumably a square wave so I guess power + anomalous heat is an irregular triangle-like shape. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory WARNING
WARNING : the waveform in plot 8 is exagerated -- it's actually only a 10% ripple. Even a square-wave will give a non-exponential waveform. (I'm doing curve-fitting with about 10 parameters -- give me a curve and I'll fit it for you!!!) To make any real conclusions I'd need to see -- from the dummy run -- a) The temperature rise with full power, from cold, until stable, and then falling again. b) A run with full power at a duty cycle of 35% (Suggested by Cude) Given those, I could make a first-order guess at the eCat's power profile.
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory WARNING
Why issue a warning? We need to pop a bottle of Champaign and celebrate! I have been hoping for a long time that someone would come along and support the many observations that I have made. Now I have a partner in crime. Dave -Original Message- From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, May 28, 2013 4:59 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory WARNING WARNING : the waveform in plot 8 is exagerated -- it's actually only a 10% ripple. Even a square-wave will give a non-exponential waveform. (I'm doing curve-fitting with about 10 parameters -- give me a curve and I'll fit it for you!!!) To make any real conclusions I'd need to see -- from the dummy run -- a) The temperature rise with full power, from cold, until stable, and then falling again. b) A run with full power at a duty cycle of 35% (Suggested by Cude) Given those, I could make a first-order guess at the eCat's power profile.
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
That's a nice piece of reverse engineering - Kudos. My only issue with it is the plot in the report, which definitely shows square waves. Mind you, these were measured on the input side of the control box. So it's possible you've uncovered a secret about the actual drive waveform. Andrew - Original Message - From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:12 PM Subject: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory http://lenr.qumbu.com/130528_waveform_04.png The strange shape results because the eCat's heat is not a square-wave response: it's triangular. The actual shape is probably a superposition of the square-wave (resistor heating) and triangular (ecat). (My curve shows what happens when the on/off cycle is too slow.)
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
From: Andrew andrew...@att.net Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:53:45 PM That's a nice piece of reverse engineering - Kudos. My only issue with it is the plot in the report, which definitely shows square waves. Mind you, these were measured on the input side of the control box. So it's possible you've uncovered a secret about the actual drive waveform. The square waves are the INPUT stimulus. The wavy line (eg plot 8) is the OUTPUT power. But the general shape will be similar. (I displayed voltage ... equivalent to temperature. I still have lots to do.
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
Let's make sure I understand these 4 plots. I understand your diagram thus: The blue square wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green double exponential. The blue triangular wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green curve that looks very like the power curve in the report. The toy model describes a thermal simulation which translates electrical input to the device to radiant power output. OK so far? Assuming yes, here's what I think you've shown. The control box consumes power as a square wave (which is what the report measures on the input side), and outputs a triangular wave to the device. The device's output power profile (radiant heat) comes out as per the report. Bazinga. The only problem is that the cable between the control box and the device contains secrets. That's your next reverse-engineering mission :) Andrew - Original Message - From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory From: Andrew andrew...@att.net Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:53:45 PM That's a nice piece of reverse engineering - Kudos. My only issue with it is the plot in the report, which definitely shows square waves. Mind you, these were measured on the input side of the control box. So it's possible you've uncovered a secret about the actual drive waveform. The square waves are the INPUT stimulus. The wavy line (eg plot 8) is the OUTPUT power. But the general shape will be similar. (I displayed voltage ... equivalent to temperature. I still have lots to do.
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: The control box consumes power as a square wave (which is what the report measures on the input side), and outputs a triangular wave to the device. My understanding is that the triangular wave includes the anomalous heat. The heat is a combination of the two. The anomalous heat peaks just after the electric power is turned off. That is the pinnacle of the triangle. It cannot be a neat, geometric shape if it includes the anomalous power. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
So what electrical waveform would you expect to see on the cable between the control box and the device? Andrew - Original Message - From: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: The control box consumes power as a square wave (which is what the report measures on the input side), and outputs a triangular wave to the device. My understanding is that the triangular wave includes the anomalous heat. The heat is a combination of the two. The anomalous heat peaks just after the electric power is turned off. That is the pinnacle of the triangle. It cannot be a neat, geometric shape if it includes the anomalous power. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: So what electrical waveform would you expect to see on the cable between the control box and the device? I wouldn't know. I am just describing my understanding of what Alan told me. He said this includes the anomalous heat. On the other hand, if it includes that it would have to be final curve . . . Maybe I am confused. I defer to Alan. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
From: Andrew andrew...@att.net Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 6:09:36 PM Let's make sure I understand these 4 plots. I understand your diagram thus: The blue square wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green double exponential. The blue triangular wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green curve that looks very like the power curve in the report. The toy model describes a thermal simulation which translates electrical input to the device to radiant power output. OK so far? Yes. Assuming yes, here's what I think you've shown. The control box consumes power as a square wave (which is what the report measures on the input side), and outputs a triangular wave to the device. The device's output power profile (radiant heat) comes out as per the report. Bazinga. Bazingafeathers. The control box (blue and yellow) consumes a few watts (think laptop). It controls the Triacs (lets talk single phase -- the black-and-yellow boxes) which lose quite a few watts (therefore the grilled enclosure). The blue on/off square wave is just the average power run through the triac, which modulates the power by clipping the sine wave. If you really, really wanted to, you could modulate the triac with a triangular pattern and you would get the wavy line. The only problem is that the cable between the control box and the device contains secrets. That's your next reverse-engineering mission :) There are NO secrets in the cable. Rossi may have discovered that an overall wave-shape other than a square-wave or triangle wave works wonders. But what it is DOESN'T FURGING MATTER.
RE: [Vo]:Spice model explains ECat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
-Original Message- From: Alan Fletcher There are NO secrets in the cable. Rossi may have discovered that an overall wave-shape other than a square-wave or triangle wave works wonders. But what it is DOESN'T FURGING MATTER. Well - it does matter if the waveform falls into the category of superwave as claimed in Dardik's applications - System and method for producing anharmonic multi-phase currents WO 2008156979 A3 or Pulsed low energy nuclear reaction power generators WO 2005017918 A3 and others. In fact, this prior art could be the most logical reason for the secrecy... Jones
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
Jed , what you said matches my model behavior. Of course this is a low COP case. The high COP behavior is more complex. Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, May 28, 2013 9:38 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: The control box consumes power as a square wave (which is what the report measures on the input side), and outputs a triangular wave to the device. My understanding is that the triangular wave includes the anomalous heat. The heat is a combination of the two. The anomalous heat peaks just after the electric power is turned off. That is the pinnacle of the triangle. It cannot be a neat, geometric shape if it includes the anomalous power. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
Jed says the cable contains secret IP. Talk to him about it; I'm only the messenger. Just a few posts down. As for you getting pissed off at god-knows-what; enjoy it - the acid is good for you. Andrew - Original Message - From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory From: Andrew andrew...@att.net Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 6:09:36 PM Let's make sure I understand these 4 plots. I understand your diagram thus: The blue square wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green double exponential. The blue triangular wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green curve that looks very like the power curve in the report. The toy model describes a thermal simulation which translates electrical input to the device to radiant power output. OK so far? Yes. Assuming yes, here's what I think you've shown. The control box consumes power as a square wave (which is what the report measures on the input side), and outputs a triangular wave to the device. The device's output power profile (radiant heat) comes out as per the report. Bazinga. Bazingafeathers. The control box (blue and yellow) consumes a few watts (think laptop). It controls the Triacs (lets talk single phase -- the black-and-yellow boxes) which lose quite a few watts (therefore the grilled enclosure). The blue on/off square wave is just the average power run through the triac, which modulates the power by clipping the sine wave. If you really, really wanted to, you could modulate the triac with a triangular pattern and you would get the wavy line. The only problem is that the cable between the control box and the device contains secrets. That's your next reverse-engineering mission :) There are NO secrets in the cable. Rossi may have discovered that an overall wave-shape other than a square-wave or triangle wave works wonders. But what it is DOESN'T FURGING MATTER.
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
The diagram reminds me of constructions consisting of springs and dashpots in series and parallel which are used to model viscoelastic materials. see e.g. http://gertrude-old.case.edu/276/materials/5.fig/05.htm6.gif http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0023643808000790-gr1.jpg His circuit diagram could be considered an electric model of force interaction at the atomic scale within the Ecat's fuel. harry On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: ** Let's make sure I understand these 4 plots. I understand your diagram thus: The blue square wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green double exponential. The blue triangular wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green curve that looks very like the power curve in the report. The toy model describes a thermal simulation which translates electrical input to the device to radiant power output. OK so far? Assuming yes, here's what I think you've shown. The control box consumes power as a square wave (which is what the report measures on the input side), and outputs a triangular wave to the device. The device's output power profile (radiant heat) comes out as per the report. Bazinga. The only problem is that the cable between the control box and the device contains secrets. That's your next reverse-engineering mission :) Andrew - Original Message - From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory From: Andrew andrew...@att.net Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:53:45 PM That's a nice piece of reverse engineering - Kudos. My only issue with it is the plot in the report, which definitely shows square waves. Mind you, these were measured on the input side of the control box. So it's possible you've uncovered a secret about the actual drive waveform. The square waves are the INPUT stimulus. The wavy line (eg plot 8) is the OUTPUT power. But the general shape will be similar. (I displayed voltage ... equivalent to temperature. I still have lots to do.
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
It's a capacitor in parallel with a resistor. I am underwhelmed. Andrew - Original Message - From: Harry Veeder To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory The diagram reminds me of constructions consisting of springs and dashpots in series and parallel which are used to model viscoelastic materials. see e.g. http://gertrude-old.case.edu/276/materials/5.fig/05.htm6.gif http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0023643808000790-gr1.jpg His circuit diagram could be considered an electric model of force interaction at the atomic scale within the Ecat's fuel. harry On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: Let's make sure I understand these 4 plots. I understand your diagram thus: The blue square wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green double exponential. The blue triangular wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green curve that looks very like the power curve in the report. The toy model describes a thermal simulation which translates electrical input to the device to radiant power output. OK so far? Assuming yes, here's what I think you've shown. The control box consumes power as a square wave (which is what the report measures on the input side), and outputs a triangular wave to the device. The device's output power profile (radiant heat) comes out as per the report. Bazinga. The only problem is that the cable between the control box and the device contains secrets. That's your next reverse-engineering mission :) Andrew - Original Message - From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory From: Andrew andrew...@att.net Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:53:45 PM That's a nice piece of reverse engineering - Kudos. My only issue with it is the plot in the report, which definitely shows square waves. Mind you, these were measured on the input side of the control box. So it's possible you've uncovered a secret about the actual drive waveform. The square waves are the INPUT stimulus. The wavy line (eg plot 8) is the OUTPUT power. But the general shape will be similar. (I displayed voltage ... equivalent to temperature. I still have lots to do.
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
I think you are bluffing. harry On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: ** It's a capacitor in parallel with a resistor. I am underwhelmed. Andrew - Original Message - *From:* Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Tuesday, May 28, 2013 9:55 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory The diagram reminds me of constructions consisting of springs and dashpots in series and parallel which are used to model viscoelastic materials. see e.g. http://gertrude-old.case.edu/276/materials/5.fig/05.htm6.gif http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0023643808000790-gr1.jpg His circuit diagram could be considered an electric model of force interaction at the atomic scale within the Ecat's fuel. harry On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: ** Let's make sure I understand these 4 plots. I understand your diagram thus: The blue square wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green double exponential. The blue triangular wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green curve that looks very like the power curve in the report. The toy model describes a thermal simulation which translates electrical input to the device to radiant power output. OK so far? Assuming yes, here's what I think you've shown. The control box consumes power as a square wave (which is what the report measures on the input side), and outputs a triangular wave to the device. The device's output power profile (radiant heat) comes out as per the report. Bazinga. The only problem is that the cable between the control box and the device contains secrets. That's your next reverse-engineering mission :) Andrew - Original Message - From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory From: Andrew andrew...@att.net Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:53:45 PM That's a nice piece of reverse engineering - Kudos. My only issue with it is the plot in the report, which definitely shows square waves. Mind you, these were measured on the input side of the control box. So it's possible you've uncovered a secret about the actual drive waveform. The square waves are the INPUT stimulus. The wavy line (eg plot 8) is the OUTPUT power. But the general shape will be similar. (I displayed voltage ... equivalent to temperature. I still have lots to do.
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
I think you are ridiculously irrational. Look at the circuit diagram. What precisely is wrong with you? That you are not an EE and cannot interpret the funny symbols? Good grief. There sure are some ripe steamers on this list. Roberson was bad enough. Then there's ...ah fergeddit. Andrew - Original Message - From: Harry Veeder To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory I think you are bluffing. harry On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: It's a capacitor in parallel with a resistor. I am underwhelmed. Andrew - Original Message - From: Harry Veeder To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory The diagram reminds me of constructions consisting of springs and dashpots in series and parallel which are used to model viscoelastic materials. see e.g. http://gertrude-old.case.edu/276/materials/5.fig/05.htm6.gif http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0023643808000790-gr1.jpg His circuit diagram could be considered an electric model of force interaction at the atomic scale within the Ecat's fuel. harry On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: Let's make sure I understand these 4 plots. I understand your diagram thus: The blue square wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green double exponential. The blue triangular wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green curve that looks very like the power curve in the report. The toy model describes a thermal simulation which translates electrical input to the device to radiant power output. OK so far? Assuming yes, here's what I think you've shown. The control box consumes power as a square wave (which is what the report measures on the input side), and outputs a triangular wave to the device. The device's output power profile (radiant heat) comes out as per the report. Bazinga. The only problem is that the cable between the control box and the device contains secrets. That's your next reverse-engineering mission :) Andrew - Original Message - From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory From: Andrew andrew...@att.net Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:53:45 PM That's a nice piece of reverse engineering - Kudos. My only issue with it is the plot in the report, which definitely shows square waves. Mind you, these were measured on the input side of the control box. So it's possible you've uncovered a secret about the actual drive waveform. The square waves are the INPUT stimulus. The wavy line (eg plot 8) is the OUTPUT power. But the general shape will be similar. (I displayed voltage ... equivalent to temperature. I still have lots to do.
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
Please read what I write. I drew an analogy between the two types of circuits diagrams. Harry On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 1:13 AM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: ** I think you are ridiculously irrational. *Look at the circuit diagram*. What precisely is wrong with you? That you are not an EE and cannot interpret the funny symbols? Good grief. There sure are some ripe steamers on this list. Roberson was bad enough. Then there's ...ah fergeddit. Andrew - Original Message - *From:* Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:08 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory I think you are bluffing. harry On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: ** It's a capacitor in parallel with a resistor. I am underwhelmed. Andrew - Original Message - *From:* Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Tuesday, May 28, 2013 9:55 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory The diagram reminds me of constructions consisting of springs and dashpots in series and parallel which are used to model viscoelastic materials. see e.g. http://gertrude-old.case.edu/276/materials/5.fig/05.htm6.gif http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0023643808000790-gr1.jpg His circuit diagram could be considered an electric model of force interaction at the atomic scale within the Ecat's fuel. harry On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: ** Let's make sure I understand these 4 plots. I understand your diagram thus: The blue square wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green double exponential. The blue triangular wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green curve that looks very like the power curve in the report. The toy model describes a thermal simulation which translates electrical input to the device to radiant power output. OK so far? Assuming yes, here's what I think you've shown. The control box consumes power as a square wave (which is what the report measures on the input side), and outputs a triangular wave to the device. The device's output power profile (radiant heat) comes out as per the report. Bazinga. The only problem is that the cable between the control box and the device contains secrets. That's your next reverse-engineering mission :) Andrew - Original Message - From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory From: Andrew andrew...@att.net Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:53:45 PM That's a nice piece of reverse engineering - Kudos. My only issue with it is the plot in the report, which definitely shows square waves. Mind you, these were measured on the input side of the control box. So it's possible you've uncovered a secret about the actual drive waveform. The square waves are the INPUT stimulus. The wavy line (eg plot 8) is the OUTPUT power. But the general shape will be similar. (I displayed voltage ... equivalent to temperature. I still have lots to do.
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
Harry, please do not be offended by that guy. Remember, I was not able to teach him elementary electronic theory. Dave -Original Message- From: Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 1:19 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory Please read what I write. I drew an analogy between the two types of circuits diagrams. Harry On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 1:13 AM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: I think you are ridiculously irrational. Look at the circuit diagram. What precisely is wrong with you? That you are not an EE and cannot interpret the funny symbols? Good grief. There sure are some ripe steamers on this list. Roberson was bad enough. Then there's ...ah fergeddit. Andrew - Original Message - From: Harry Veeder To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory I think you are bluffing. harry On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: It's a capacitor in parallel with a resistor. I am underwhelmed. Andrew - Original Message - From: Harry Veeder To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory The diagram reminds me of constructions consisting of springs and dashpots in series and parallel which are used to model viscoelastic materials. see e.g. http://gertrude-old.case.edu/276/materials/5.fig/05.htm6.gif http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0023643808000790-gr1.jpg His circuit diagram could be considered an electric model of force interaction at the atomic scale within the Ecat's fuel. harry On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: Let's make sure I understand these 4 plots. I understand your diagram thus: The blue square wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green double exponential. The blue triangular wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green curve that looks very like the power curve in the report. The toy model describes a thermal simulation which translates electrical input to the device to radiant power output. OK so far? Assuming yes, here's what I think you've shown. The control box consumes power as a square wave (which is what the report measures on the input side), and outputs a triangular wave to the device. The device's output power profile (radiant heat) comes out as per the report. Bazinga. The only problem is that the cable between the control box and the device contains secrets. That's your next reverse-engineering mission :) Andrew - Original Message - From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory From: Andrew andrew...@att.net Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:53:45 PM That's a nice piece of reverse engineering - Kudos. My only issue with it is the plot in the report, which definitely shows square waves. Mind you, these were measured on the input side of the control box. So it's possible you've uncovered a secret about the actual drive waveform. The square waves are the INPUT stimulus. The wavy line (eg plot 8) is the OUTPUT power. But the general shape will be similar. (I displayed voltage ... equivalent to temperature. I still have lots to do.
Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory
dave, I am not offended. I find his reaction kinda funny. On this list we are allowed to think outside our respective disciplines... or self-disciplines ;-) harry On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 1:29 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Harry, please do not be offended by that guy. Remember, I was not able to teach him elementary electronic theory. Dave -Original Message- From: Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 1:19 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory Please read what I write. I drew an analogy between the two types of circuits diagrams. Harry On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 1:13 AM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: ** I think you are ridiculously irrational. *Look at the circuit diagram*. What precisely is wrong with you? That you are not an EE and cannot interpret the funny symbols? Good grief. There sure are some ripe steamers on this list. Roberson was bad enough. Then there's ...ah fergeddit. Andrew - Original Message - *From:* Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:08 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory I think you are bluffing. harry On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: ** It's a capacitor in parallel with a resistor. I am underwhelmed. Andrew - Original Message - *From:* Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Tuesday, May 28, 2013 9:55 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory The diagram reminds me of constructions consisting of springs and dashpots in series and parallel which are used to model viscoelastic materials. see e.g. http://gertrude-old.case.edu/276/materials/5.fig/05.htm6.gif http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0023643808000790-gr1.jpg His circuit diagram could be considered an electric model of force interaction at the atomic scale within the Ecat's fuel. harry On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: ** Let's make sure I understand these 4 plots. I understand your diagram thus: The blue square wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green double exponential. The blue triangular wave goes through your toy model and emerges as the green curve that looks very like the power curve in the report. The toy model describes a thermal simulation which translates electrical input to the device to radiant power output. OK so far? Assuming yes, here's what I think you've shown. The control box consumes power as a square wave (which is what the report measures on the input side), and outputs a triangular wave to the device. The device's output power profile (radiant heat) comes out as per the report. Bazinga. The only problem is that the cable between the control box and the device contains secrets. That's your next reverse-engineering mission :) Andrew - Original Message - From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spice model explains eCat non-exponential waveform, supports David Roberson's linear-response theory From: Andrew andrew...@att.net Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:53:45 PM That's a nice piece of reverse engineering - Kudos. My only issue with it is the plot in the report, which definitely shows square waves. Mind you, these were measured on the input side of the control box. So it's possible you've uncovered a secret about the actual drive waveform. The square waves are the INPUT stimulus. The wavy line (eg plot 8) is the OUTPUT power. But the general shape will be similar. (I displayed voltage ... equivalent to temperature. I still have lots to do.
