Re: [vos-d] development
The goals for the UI prototype is to explore how to present a highly configurable user interface based around vobjects, to consider the kinds of tasks and workflow a user might perform in the GUI, and to confront cross-platform issues (in compiling, in the operation of the GUI and in distributing binary packages) up front, so that development stays honest and as OS-neutral as possible. Wait, so, you mean, you're rendering the UI widgets in 3d now? (It sounds more and more like Blender each day.) Both academically and professionally, Reed and I have a great deal of background in agent-based simulation. It gives us a focus that is a bit more specific than simply build a game engine, and looking at it from a the standpoint of formal simulation design lets us apply a little more rigor than goes into the average game or entertainment-oriented virtual environment. Certain elements common to game engines might be helpful for more than just making games, but I can see where you're coming from. By developing the UI first, I'm also taking a more top-down design strategy. In the past, developing the backend first has led to the UI and the sample 3D worlds being an afterthought, which of course didn't impress most users. To avoid making that mistake again, I'm going to focus on UI and content creation up front, to make good presentation and usability (and usefulness) a priority, and only then develop the backend to support those requirements. With Usability as a focus, you could attempt to allow users to create their own content, which I think should be the aim of a community-oriented project such as this one. More content means more popularity means more content, etc, etc. (It also helps that I'm getting more comfortable with modeling in Blender, and can produce programmer art that is at least marginally better than colored boxes). Extrude. Rotate. Subsurface. ;) I'm hoping to have something for you all to see (UI prototype, with no network capability) in two to three weeks. Looking forward to it! -Steve ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] development
On Tue, Aug 21, 2007 at 12:28:55PM -0600, S Mattison wrote: The goals for the UI prototype is to explore how to present a highly configurable user interface based around vobjects, to consider the kinds of tasks and workflow a user might perform in the GUI, and to confront cross-platform issues (in compiling, in the operation of the GUI and in distributing binary packages) up front, so that development stays honest and as OS-neutral as possible. Wait, so, you mean, you're rendering the UI widgets in 3d now? (It sounds more and more like Blender each day.) I'm not doing 3D widgets yet. The UI is wxWidgets with 3D windows (as well as other views, such as a tree view) embedded in frames. The frames can be split, unsplit, resized and detached at will, and each displays a different view which may be presented as a 2D control or 3D rendering, depending on the viewing mode. It does have some similarities with the Blender UI, but it would be more accurate to say that the UI I am working on is more inspired by Emacs (!) Eventually I want to be able to paint 2D views onto 3D textures so that you can mix 2D windows and 3D scenes freely -- but that will require a bit more work in creating/porting a GUI toolkit that can render to texture as easily as to the screen. By developing the UI first, I'm also taking a more top-down design strategy. In the past, developing the backend first has led to the UI and the sample 3D worlds being an afterthought, which of course didn't impress most users. To avoid making that mistake again, I'm going to focus on UI and content creation up front, to make good presentation and usability (and usefulness) a priority, and only then develop the backend to support those requirements. With Usability as a focus, you could attempt to allow users to create their own content, which I think should be the aim of a community-oriented project such as this one. More content means more popularity means more content, etc, etc. Absolutely. In fact since you mention it, I think I'll see if I can get the Blender - S5 Prototype export down to one click (writes the file, loads it into VOS for you). I'm hoping to have something for you all to see (UI prototype, with no network capability) in two to three weeks. Looking forward to it! -Steve Good to hear :-) -- [ Peter Amstutz ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] [Lead Programmer][Interreality Project][Virtual Reality for the Internet] [ VOS: Next Generation Internet Communication][ http://interreality.org ] [ http://interreality.org/~tetron ][ pgpkey: pgpkeys.mit.edu 18C21DF7 ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
[vos-d] development infrastructure
VOS development (specifically the next generation s5) is officially back on track. I am now able to devote at least half of my working hours to VOS. My time so far has been spent primarily on infrastructure issues. I'm using the SCons (Software Construction) tool to develop a cross-platform build system. A lot of things that in s4 are done with shell scripts and Unix commands can be done much more portably with the Python standard library. The most useful feature for new developers will be automated downloading and compiling of dependencies, allowing one to start from scratch with only a few standard tools (Python, C++ compiler, make/nmake/vcbuild/xcodebuild as appropriate) and build VOS and all its dependencies with a single command. Most importantly, this means that there is only one set of files describing the build, so there is no need to synchronize changes across makefiles, vcproj files, xcodeproj files and so forth. However, since Visual Studio and XCode support makefile projects (which are easily configured to run SCons), you will still be able to use the IDE for development and debugging. In order to ensure cross-platform compatability I will be testing and developing constantly on several platforms. With the hardware sitting on my desk right now, I will be able to directly support Debian Linux (amd64), Windows XP (x86) and OS X 10.4 (x86). On Windows XP I am using Visual C++ Express, which is a free-beer download from Microsoft. Compiling on Windows requires only Visual Studio 8.0 and Python 2.4 -- no Unix tools required. I haven't played around much with Cygwin and Mingw yet, but adding support should be relatively easy. I intend to eventually implement a staged check-in system, where changes are run against a unit/regression test suite before being merged into the official branch. That won't catch all issues (particularly those affecting specific OSs, since the branch will be hosted on interreality.org, which is amd64 Linux), but should still provide a firewall against dumb mistakes and help ensure that the public development branch is relatively stable. It's been my experience with software development that the time invested in the software engineering process is paid back many times in time saved later, as many problems are caught before they are disruptive or can be avoided entirely. I'm planning for the hopefully not-too-distant future when we have several developers hacking on VOS and need to avoid stepping on each other's toes. -- [ Peter Amstutz ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] [Lead Programmer][Interreality Project][Virtual Reality for the Internet] [ VOS: Next Generation Internet Communication][ http://interreality.org ] [ http://interreality.org/~tetron ][ pgpkey: pgpkeys.mit.edu 18C21DF7 ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
[vos-d] development plan
Here's the big picture for VOS development over the next few months: 1) Build out development infrastructure discussed in previous mail. This is mostly done. The two main tasks are to refurbish an old computer I have to run Windows XP (waiting on parts) and to deploy or develop a staged commit system as I discussed. 2) Work on user interface prototype. In the past, the end-user browser has always gotten the least attention despite being the first thing that everyone sees. I am working on a minimal (lacking the underlying VOS structure) prototype GUI to stimulate discussion about the nature of the application -- how it will be used by newbies, developers, artists, etc. 3) Create distribution packages for the user interface prototype. This serves two purposes: to enable people to try out and comment the UI without having to compile VOS, and to have the infrastructure in place to create .msi files, app bundles, debian packages, etc. 4) Concurrently with (2) and (3), I'm going to restart discussion of the s5 backend design. I think I've got it all laid out in my head, I just need to write it down so you guys can pick over it. 5) Come up with some milestones and prioritize development. The strategy will probably be to code enough of the VOS framework to support concurrent development of higher level pieces like A3DL, and to start putting some meat on the bones of the UI prototype. This may be something like scripting + A3DL + application frontend (which could be a useful tool in its own right) without the networking, distributed computing and persistance pieces necessarily being ready yet. -- [ Peter Amstutz ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] [Lead Programmer][Interreality Project][Virtual Reality for the Internet] [ VOS: Next Generation Internet Communication][ http://interreality.org ] [ http://interreality.org/~tetron ][ pgpkey: pgpkeys.mit.edu 18C21DF7 ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] development plan
5) Come up with some milestones and prioritize development. The strategy will probably be to code enough of the VOS framework to support concurrent development of higher level pieces like A3DL, and to start putting some meat on the bones of the UI prototype. This may be something like scripting + A3DL + application frontend (which could be a useful tool in its own right) without the networking, distributed computing and persistance pieces necessarily being ready yet. Hmm... I kind of want to begin porting S4 libraries and apps (mesh, omnivos, hypervos, the metaobject libraries, etc.) over to S5. Should I just wait on that? Networking is probably needed (though maybe not). Metaobject/type API is needed. Message handling would be needed. Reed ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] development status
Peter Amstutz wrote: Fifth, I've set up a task tracking system called XPlanner at http://interreality.org/xplanner (login: guest, password: guest). You can view a detailed breakdown of our development roadmap, and see both how long we expect things to take and what progress (if any) has been made. I think that about covers it. Comments? That planner interface looks very feature-rich :) Has any more work been done behind the scenes on setting goals for the 0.24 release? It would be cool to track those in xplanner as well. -Ken ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] development status
Chris is referring here to a proposal for the X3D format/language (new version of VRML) to add the sensor nodes mentioned, by the way. Reed chris wrote: Hi, just a few comments on other status that may interest. I have been testing tcp/ip networking with an implementation of the network sensor nodes in Flux. I have been able to get the basic test examples to work with two linux servers. An example of the nodes is given below. For the mass avatar event at siggraph I will be working on modifying the communications for UDP. This raises the possibility of testing vos server with these nodes if ur inteterested. A description of the test examples and MM server is at http://www.mediamachines.com/hydra/ my experience with installing / running the server is at: http://planet-earth.org/smam/fluxServerInstallRun.html tho u would be wanting to run your own vos server. I am also running a 2 hr multisuer virtual world BOF at siggraph (August) so if you want me to demo vos let me know. I would want something that would not require old browser versions, old java etc if possible because I need to be able to demo other stuff with current tech as well. ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] development status
Hi, just a few comments on other status that may interest. I have been testing tcp/ip networking with an implementation of the network sensor nodes in Flux. I have been able to get the basic test examples to work with two linux servers. An example of the nodes is given below. For the mass avatar event at siggraph I will be working on modifying the communications for UDP. This raises the possibility of testing vos server with these nodes if ur inteterested. A description of the test examples and MM server is at http://www.mediamachines.com/hydra/ my experience with installing / running the server is at: http://planet-earth.org/smam/fluxServerInstallRun.html tho u would be wanting to run your own vos server. I am also running a 2 hr multisuer virtual world BOF at siggraph (August) so if you want me to demo vos let me know. I would want something that would not require old browser versions, old java etc if possible because I need to be able to demo other stuff with current tech as well. cheers, chris ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8? !DOCTYPE X3D PUBLIC ISO//Web3D//DTD X3D 3.0//EN http://www.web3d.org/specifications/x3d-3.0.dtd X3D profile='Immersive' Scene Group Transform DEF='CUBE_TRANSFORM' Shape containerField='children' Appearance containerField='appearance' Material DEF='Blue' containerField='material' ambientIntensity='0.200' shininess='0.200' diffuseColor='0 0 1'/ /Appearance Box containerField='geometry' size='1 1 1'/ /Shape /Transform PlaneSensor DEF='PS'/ /Group NetworkSensor DEF='ES' networkSensorId='ES' field name='translation' type='SFVec3f' accessType='inputOutput'/ Connection DEF='muserver' containerField='connection' url='swmp://84.20.147.209:13214/MM-6-12345678'/ /NetworkSensor ROUTE fromNode='PS' fromField='translation_changed' toNode='ES' toField='set_translation'/ ROUTE fromNode='ES' fromField='translation_changed' toNode='CUBE_TRANSFORM' toField='set_translation'/ /Scene /X3D On 08/06/07, Peter Amstutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, things have been a bit quiet lately, so I want to let everyone know what's going on with VOS. The first bit of news is that starting in July, I will be able to dedicate half of my time (20-30 hours a week) to VOS development. I have made an arrangement with my current employer to work part time, so this works out well for everyone. Second, I am continuing to do design work on s5, and have spent some coding time doing prototyping certain crucial features to better understand them. I've made some progress in understanding how better to structure control flow in the presence of asynchronous requests (in s5, *all* requests will be asynchronous) by using continuations and futures. I'm also investigating some ideas for a new security design, which I hope to write about to the list shortly. Third, s5 is going to use a Python-based build system called Scons, which I described in my email about build systems a little while ago. I hope that this will enable a degree of automation and cross-platform support that is impossible with autotools. I've spent some time hacking on it and I'm comfortable with it, and it is under active development so it seems like a safe bet. Fourth, my intention is that come July, I will hit the ground running with implementing s5 -- you will start seeing real progress and not just talk. My hope is that in as little as a month or two, I can have enough of the s5 kernel written that other people interested in helping can contribute. Fifth, I've set up a task tracking system called XPlanner at http://interreality.org/xplanner (login: guest, password: guest). You can view a detailed breakdown of our development roadmap, and see both how long we expect things to take and what progress (if any) has been made. I think that about covers it. Comments? -- [ Peter Amstutz ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] [Lead Programmer][Interreality Project][Virtual Reality for the Internet] [ VOS: Next Generation Internet Communication][ http://interreality.org ] [ http://interreality.org/~tetron http://interreality.org/%7Etetron ][ pgpkey: pgpkeys.mit.edu 18C21DF7 ] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGaMhzaeHUyhjCHfcRAvU7AKCPAPAnl4kSpM2ygePmufUY/A0XPgCgsNfW PoQTZ7Vcj94J7BjwAo/CKpA= =3m95 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d -- http://ping.com.au http://systemic.com.au http://planet-earth.org/Rez/RezIndex.html -- It be a great secret: there be more truth at the centre. ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] development
On Fri, Dec 08, 2006 at 11:49:05AM -0700, S Mattison wrote: I'll send you a GMail invite. All messages in your GMail inbox that share a single subject line are treated as 'extensions' onto a single email, and when there are enough of them, the mail collapses to show you only the headlines of the first and most recent one you've already seen, so you can skip to the good stuff. You might like to sign up for the mailing list using GMail. It's what I use. Thanks, but I already have a gmail account, and the problem is not a technological limitation with my mail reader. The problem is that to sit down and compose a thoughtful reply to every email would take hours out of my day that are better spent making concrete progress in coding VOS (keep in mind I have a fulltime job, and VOS is still just a hobby pursued on evenings and weekends). I just wanted to let everyone know that I'm paying attention, even if I can't weigh in on every thread. [ Peter Amstutz ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] [Lead Programmer][Interreality Project][Virtual Reality for the Internet] [ VOS: Next Generation Internet Communication][ http://interreality.org ] [ http://interreality.org/~tetron ][ pgpkey: pgpkeys.mit.edu 18C21DF7 ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
