Re: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
Hi Mark, I'm on holiday now until the 13th of April. When I get back I'll continue working on the gluon package. There is not much to document there, it's quite straightforward. If you want to help you could start with developing the setup.py file for the gluon module. You can find the setuptools manual here: http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/setuptools Regards, Dima. On Sat, 3 Apr 2010 07:01:01 -0700 (PDT), Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote: Hi Dima, I have to plan my work for the coming weeks. Because I was wondering when you could need some help. Because when there is a concrete plan, I could try to start a project at my school. Which could give this project a development boost. We could also start a document on google docs. To make it more collaborative and a good spread of the work. Regards Mark Breedveld, On Mar 23, 8:40 pm, Dima Barsky d...@debian.org wrote: On Mar 23, 6:00 pm, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: I do not have any object. I think I need more details to understand it better. I think you should give it a shot and we'll see later if we find any problem. I'm not very happy about this, I would prefer to reach an agreement before I start. I would not want to spend several evenings developing something that you eventually reject for some ideological reasons. Let's do it one step at a time. I'll package the gluon module anyway, there seem to be no problems with it. After that I'll try to write down a small document describing the structure of other web2py related packages. If you are happy with it I'll go ahead with the second part. If not, we'll just stop there. Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
Hi Dima, I have to plan my work for the coming weeks. Because I was wondering when you could need some help. Because when there is a concrete plan, I could try to start a project at my school. Which could give this project a development boost. We could also start a document on google docs. To make it more collaborative and a good spread of the work. Regards Mark Breedveld, On Mar 23, 8:40 pm, Dima Barsky d...@debian.org wrote: On Mar 23, 6:00 pm, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: I do not have any object. I think I need more details to understand it better. I think you should give it a shot and we'll see later if we find any problem. I'm not very happy about this, I would prefer to reach an agreement before I start. I would not want to spend several evenings developing something that you eventually reject for some ideological reasons. Let's do it one step at a time. I'll package the gluon module anyway, there seem to be no problems with it. After that I'll try to write down a small document describing the structure of other web2py related packages. If you are happy with it I'll go ahead with the second part. If not, we'll just stop there. Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
On Mar 23, 1:15 am, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: The main feature of web2py is that appliances are data and are treated as such. Consider a CMS app that wants to install, for example, a plugin. A plugin contains code and needs to be installable at runtime. The plugin may also modify other application files (such as replace a layout or a model). I'm afraid this approach is incompatible with production packaging. In Debian, plugins are installed via the same packaging mechanism as the applications. Take a look at trac, for example - there are several debian packages containing trac-related plugins. I would not oppose to an external mechanism to locks/unlock *.py and *.html files for a certain app so that they cannot be modified by the www-data user while in production I'm glad we agree on that. but one cannot break the internal directory structure of the apps without crippling it. All right, we could try using the same symlink approach Mark mentioned earlier. How about this: a package containing the examples application is installed in /usr/share/web2py/applications/examples. Underneath there are several real directories (views, controllers, etc) populated with read-only files, but there are also a few symlinks like this: sessions - /var/run/web2py/applications/examples/sessions databases - /var/run/web2py/applications/examples/databases Do you think this breaks the internal structure of web2py? Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
I'll see both problems and another solution to work around this. We could install web2py into /usr/ directories with apt. Then create a startup script that makes a copy of web2py and the web2py applications that are installed trough apt to the /var folder. A so called runtime version of web2py. We could let the script also take care of different users/password/ applications. Then i've one minnor question. Shall we keep the development versions of under var. Not best location, because var may get destroyed with an exception for /var/spool So Dima, do you know a place where we could put the applications imported through web2py mechanisme? regards Mark On Mar 23, 12:38 am, Dima Barsky d...@debian.org wrote: Where would you put php files? I have seen them in /var/www/ Massimo, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but any script you might've seen in /var/ www was not underDebianpackage control, it was installed there manually by the administrator. All php files are also installed under / usr. If you try to create a package with script in /var most likely it will not be accepted intoDebianfor the reasons I mentioned earlier. I don't see any other way to make a clean package rather than put the code and the runtime data into different directories. I still don't understand, what's wrong with a config file for each application? This file would say whether the application is editable, and where it's runtime files should be located. It the absense of config file, it will default to the current layout, so the backward compatibility is preserved. Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
Re: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 02:06:16 -0700 (PDT), Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote: I'll see both problems and another solution to work around this. We could install web2py into /usr/ directories with apt. Then create a startup script that makes a copy of web2py and the web2py applications that are installed trough apt to the /var folder. A so called runtime version of web2py. This will work, but why would you want to do this? It will create more problems than it solves. Imagine the following scenario: you develop a web2py application called XYZ, which is packaged and distributed via Debian. A user installs XYZ version 1.2.3 and starts playing with the runtime version in /var, adding new views and controllers and modifying the existing ones. Some time later you release XYZ 1.3.0 which gets installed on the user's computer via an automatic update. Now there are two version of XYZ on that computer - the mainstream 1.3.0 in /usr and user-modified 1.2.3 in /var. The changes that you made in 1.3.0 are incompatible with the user's changes, so there is no easy way to merge them together. The startup script can not just override the user's changes and install 1.3.0 in /var, that would be cruel. Let's assume it leaves 1.2.3 in /var intact. Now the user notices a bug in your application and decides to submit a bug report using one of the standard bug-reporting tools in Debian. The tool looks at the packaging database and reports that the user has XYZ 1.3.0 installed. Imagine your confusion when you receive this bug report, you thought you had fixed this problem, but it's still there. It's a nightmare, I would not want to maintain such an application. Let's admit that there are different roles: developers develop applications, users use them. When a user wants to become a developer he can install the application in his home dir and start working on it. There is another class of users who don't have any intention of modifying the application. They just want to use it, they want stability and predictability, and the packaging system gives them that. Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
Hi Dimo, I agree on the fact that there more roles. And I want to make a clear separation in the repo. Web2py applications for production use are put in the usr folder. And copied and protected by a startup script. For example you could take the write right from /controllers /models / views And store static and upload under var or or the user location mentioned in a email before. Web2py applications for development are put in the user location or / var Together with the application uploaded from web2py own application mechanism Those applications may never ever overwrite each other (I agree with you on that too) It is the most advance solution till now, But it's quite complex. Because of various way to run web2py. And it isn't very concrete at the moment, But it's a start. Regards Mark, -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: web2py@googlegroups.com [mailto:web...@googlegroups.com] Namens Dima Barsky Verzonden: dinsdag 23 maart 2010 11:26 Aan: web2py@googlegroups.com Onderwerp: Re: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed! On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 02:06:16 -0700 (PDT), Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote: I'll see both problems and another solution to work around this. We could install web2py into /usr/ directories with apt. Then create a startup script that makes a copy of web2py and the web2py applications that are installed trough apt to the /var folder. A so called runtime version of web2py. This will work, but why would you want to do this? It will create more problems than it solves. Imagine the following scenario: you develop a web2py application called XYZ, which is packaged and distributed via Debian. A user installs XYZ version 1.2.3 and starts playing with the runtime version in /var, adding new views and controllers and modifying the existing ones. Some time later you release XYZ 1.3.0 which gets installed on the user's computer via an automatic update. Now there are two version of XYZ on that computer - the mainstream 1.3.0 in /usr and user-modified 1.2.3 in /var. The changes that you made in 1.3.0 are incompatible with the user's changes, so there is no easy way to merge them together. The startup script can not just override the user's changes and install 1.3.0 in /var, that would be cruel. Let's assume it leaves 1.2.3 in /var intact. Now the user notices a bug in your application and decides to submit a bug report using one of the standard bug-reporting tools in Debian. The tool looks at the packaging database and reports that the user has XYZ 1.3.0 installed. Imagine your confusion when you receive this bug report, you thought you had fixed this problem, but it's still there. It's a nightmare, I would not want to maintain such an application. Let's admit that there are different roles: developers develop applications, users use them. When a user wants to become a developer he can install the application in his home dir and start working on it. There is another class of users who don't have any intention of modifying the application. They just want to use it, they want stability and predictability, and the packaging system gives them that. Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py +unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en. On Mar 23, 11:25 am, Dima Barsky d...@debian.org wrote: On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 02:06:16 -0700 (PDT), Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote: I'll see both problems and another solution to work around this. We could install web2py into /usr/ directories with apt. Then create a startup script that makes a copy of web2py and the web2py applications that are installed trough apt to the /var folder. A so called runtime version of web2py. This will work, but why would you want to do this? It will create more problems than it solves. Imagine the following scenario: you develop a web2py application called XYZ, which is packaged and distributed viaDebian. A user installs XYZ version 1.2.3 and starts playing with the runtime version in /var, adding new views and controllers and modifying the existing ones. Some time later you release XYZ 1.3.0 which gets installed on the user's computer via an automatic update. Now there are two version of XYZ on that computer - the mainstream 1.3.0 in /usr and user-modified 1.2.3 in /var. The changes that you made in 1.3.0 are incompatible with the user's changes, so there is no easy way to merge them together. The startup script can not just override the user's changes and install 1.3.0 in /var, that would be cruel. Let's assume it leaves 1.2.3 in /var intact. Now the user notices a bug in your application and decides to submit a bug report using one of the standard bug-reporting tools inDebian
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
Hi Kuba, Your indeed right that web2py is a higher application. So we could also decide not to pack any web2py applications into the apt repository. This is the most easy solution. Single user web2py server. And to make it according the guidelines, we make a startup script that create a runtime version. Might have some issues, but nothing to big. On the other side is solution descrypted in my reply to Dimo. Which is highly advanced when correctly implemented. But also very complex for us, but easy, but still advanced and secure for repository users. This is what web2py stand for. A secure, fast and advanced server. We have to come with a good plan, because it is hard to change it. regards Mark On Mar 22, 9:10 pm, Kuba Kucharski kuba.kuchar...@gmail.com wrote: web2py application are higher level. Like php scripts in www directory. They are edtable. They are apps within web2py. They are isolated and independent. They sometimes contain sqlite data inside. web2py is about user-developers. So in some way applications are user data. Applying default security policy to such project is a nonsene IMHO. My opinion is the application folder should go to the home folder of the user which runs web2py. Like in Django /home/user/mycode.. -- Kuba -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
Hi Mark, And I want to make a clear separation in the repo. Web2py applications for production use are put in the usr folder. And copied and protected by a startup script. For example you could take the write right from /controllers/models/views And store static and upload under var or or the user location mentioned in a email before. I have no problem with that. All you have to do now is to convince Massimo :-) Web2py applications for development are put in the user location or /var Debian packages are not allowed to touch users' home directories at the installation time. Also, I don't see any point in doing that, even if it was allowed. Anybody who want to develop an application can copy the production version from /usr into his home directory and run it from there. We could provide a script to simplify that task, although even doing it manually is not difficult at all. The script can create a web2py folder and populate it with specified applications taken from either production packages or plain w2p files. The script will be under package control, but the resulting web2py folder will not be. The user will decide where to store it, how to run it, how often to update it, etc. Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
I am not sure I understand. If I understand you are proposing: 1) installing web2py into /usr/ as it (it will not run there) 2) provide a script to allow users to make a copy of what is needed for runtime (inluding applications/) 3) allow the user to run from the folder where files have been copied but using the shared gluon files. If I understand I am fine with this. On Mar 23, 10:10 am, Dima Barsky d...@debian.org wrote: Hi Mark, And I want to make a clear separation in the repo. Web2py applications for production use are put in the usr folder. And copied and protected by a startup script. For example you could take the write right from /controllers/models/views And store static and upload under var or or the user location mentioned in a email before. I have no problem with that. All you have to do now is to convince Massimo :-) Web2py applications for development are put in the user location or /var Debian packages are not allowed to touch users' home directories at the installation time. Also, I don't see any point in doing that, even if it was allowed. Anybody who want to develop an application can copy the production version from /usr into his home directory and run it from there. We could provide a script to simplify that task, although even doing it manually is not difficult at all. The script can create a web2py folder and populate it with specified applications taken from either production packages or plain w2p files. The script will be under package control, but the resulting web2py folder will not be. The user will decide where to store it, how to run it, how often to update it, etc. Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
Re: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
I am not sure I understand. If I understand you are proposing: 1) installing web2py into /usr/ as it (it will not run there) 2) provide a script to allow users to make a copy of what is needed for runtime (inluding applications/) 3) allow the user to run from the folder where files have been copied but using the shared gluon files. If I understand I am fine with this. That's correct, but it's only part of my proposal. The most difficult bit would be to create production application. See my previous post about symlinks from /usr into /var. Do you have any objections to that? Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
I do not have any object. I think I need more details to understand it better. I think you should give it a shot and we'll see later if we find any problem. On Mar 23, 12:37 pm, Dima Barsky d...@debian.org wrote: I am not sure I understand. If I understand you are proposing: 1) installing web2py into /usr/ as it (it will not run there) 2) provide a script to allow users to make a copy of what is needed for runtime (inluding applications/) 3) allow the user to run from the folder where files have been copied but using the shared gluon files. If I understand I am fine with this. That's correct, but it's only part of my proposal. The most difficult bit would be to create production application. See my previous post about symlinks from /usr into /var. Do you have any objections to that? Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
On Mar 23, 6:00 pm, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: I do not have any object. I think I need more details to understand it better. I think you should give it a shot and we'll see later if we find any problem. I'm not very happy about this, I would prefer to reach an agreement before I start. I would not want to spend several evenings developing something that you eventually reject for some ideological reasons. Let's do it one step at a time. I'll package the gluon module anyway, there seem to be no problems with it. After that I'll try to write down a small document describing the structure of other web2py related packages. If you are happy with it I'll go ahead with the second part. If not, we'll just stop there. Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
I understand. You do not have to develop the all thing. Can you show a pseudcode example of what the script would do? On Mar 23, 1:40 pm, Dima Barsky d...@debian.org wrote: On Mar 23, 6:00 pm, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: I do not have any object. I think I need more details to understand it better. I think you should give it a shot and we'll see later if we find any problem. I'm not very happy about this, I would prefer to reach an agreement before I start. I would not want to spend several evenings developing something that you eventually reject for some ideological reasons. Let's do it one step at a time. I'll package the gluon module anyway, there seem to be no problems with it. After that I'll try to write down a small document describing the structure of other web2py related packages. If you are happy with it I'll go ahead with the second part. If not, we'll just stop there. Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
i'm looking forward to your design plan. It sounds good and i'm confident that it will. regards Mark Breedveld, On Mar 23, 7:47 pm, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: I understand. You do not have to develop the all thing. Can you show a pseudcode example of what the script would do? On Mar 23, 1:40 pm, Dima Barsky d...@debian.org wrote: On Mar 23, 6:00 pm, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: I do not have any object. I think I need more details to understand it better. I think you should give it a shot and we'll see later if we find any problem. I'm not very happy about this, I would prefer to reach an agreement before I start. I would not want to spend several evenings developing something that you eventually reject for some ideological reasons. Let's do it one step at a time. I'll package the gluon module anyway, there seem to be no problems with it. After that I'll try to write down a small document describing the structure of other web2py related packages. If you are happy with it I'll go ahead with the second part. If not, we'll just stop there. Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
On Mar 22, 12:18 am, Thadeus Burgess thade...@thadeusb.com wrote: How would you propose web2py to write sql.log, or its .table files used in migrations for that matter? The debian packaging rules are quite strict about it, the log files should go to /var/log, transient runtime files go to /var/run, variable state information - to /var/lib/. You can find more details in the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard document at http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#THEVARHIERARCHY Of course, all this applies only to prepackaged applications. When a user starts web2py from his home directory all runtime files should stay in the same home directory. Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
phppgadmin seems to in /users/share/ and it looks to me everything is in there. On Mar 22, 7:45 am, Dima Barsky d...@debian.org wrote: On Mar 22, 12:18 am, Thadeus Burgess thade...@thadeusb.com wrote: How would you propose web2py to write sql.log, or its .table files used in migrations for that matter? The debian packaging rules are quite strict about it, the log files should go to /var/log, transient runtime files go to /var/run, variable state information - to /var/lib/. You can find more details in the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard document athttp://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#THEVARHIERARCHY Of course, all this applies only to prepackaged applications. When a user starts web2py from his home directory all runtime files should stay in the same home directory. Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
On Mar 22, 2:14 pm, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: phppgadmin seems to in /users/share/ and it looks to me everything is in there. I'm not very familiar with phppgadmin, but from the first look it does not produce any log files, nor does it have any state which has to be preserved across session. Anyway, it would be impossible to keep such information under /usr/, as on many Debian installations it is mounted read-only. Quoting the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard: /usr is shareable, read-only data. That means that /usr should be shareable between various FHS-compliant hosts and must not be written to. Any information that is host- specific or varies with time is stored elsewhere. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
RE: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
Hi Dima, I agree on the fact that it is not an elegant solution. But till now we have we have two possible solutions. The First one is to create a user web2py and make it a member of www-data. And put the application in the home folder which will work. - No diskprotected multi-user system (or it has be programmed into web2py) + easy done with no modification to web2py The second solution With symlinks (see mail history) + multi-user and protected by file system - possible securite leaks through web2py application data (Massimo?) + easy to update through apt The read only problem could be fixed with the Group rights. We could grant the www-data only write rights, And the web2py user only read rights and member of www-data group. This will make sure that users can't read each other files, but still can write in the app dictory by its Group rights. I hope to starting testing a few of those things on short notice. But i'm quite busy at the moment, so it might take a few days. And there are a few things more to discuss. Coming in my following mail later this day. Regards Mark Breedveld, Ps. Massimo could you make a seperation between app and user data? -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: web2py@googlegroups.com [mailto:web...@googlegroups.com] Namens Dima Barsky Verzonden: zondag 21 maart 2010 17:32 Aan: web2py-users Onderwerp: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed! Hi Mark, The idea with symlinks might work, although it's not very elegant. Packaging individual applications is not easy either, there is another problem I forgot to mention. Currently web2py assumes that it has write permissions for the whole web2py directories (including subdirectories). It creates various files inside the application's directory - databases, error tickets, session-related files, and so on. That would never work with a debian package, all runtime files should be created under /var/run. In short, the web2py code should be able to run from a read-only directory structure. I guess it'll take a fair amount of work to achieve this, I don't feel confident enough to do this on my own. Any volunteers? Regards, Dima. On Mar 21, 3:08 pm, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote: Thank you for your reply. Aldo my first reply suggested that I wanted to seperate the admin app. This not my intention. With web2py-appname.deb was for verified user apps from web2py.com. But still your interpretation of it ain't an wrong idee. For securite and vps reasons/situations it's required to run in there own directory. So if possible, we could link the application to user directory which means that every user that is running web2py will get a web2py directory. somethink like. /home/user/web2py/ which contains a symlink to following directories /usr/local/bin/web2py/gluon/ /usr/local/bin/web2py/scripts/ and the following files /usr/local/bin/web2py/web2py.py and all other user independent files /*massimo knows which files that would be create directory /home/user/web2py/application put a symlink to /usr/local/bin/web2py/application/admin/ then put under /home/user/web2py/ parameters_8000.py Then create a start up entry for that user. There are a few problems with this plan. Does every user has his own web2py? Has web2py problems with symlinks? Is the symlink a real bottleneck for web2py and should there be a hardlink? Are the directories accoording the ubuntu guidlines? I fairly interested in your opinion. regards Mark Breedveld, On Mar 21, 1:15 pm, Dima Barsky d...@debian.org wrote: On Mar 20, 5:01 pm, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote: The web2py community is searching help ondebian/ ubuntu packaging. The are concrete plans to deploy web2py as Turnkey Appliance. Mark, I'll see what I can do, although it might be not straightforward. There is no clear separation in web2py between the library code and the user code. Take, for example, the admin application: it is located under the applications directory nearby the user code, but it's really part of the core, as web2py refuses to start without it. I would say the first step should be to patch web2py to allow the user code to be located somewhere else, not in the web2py directory, which is currently not possible. I'll give it a go, but I'm not very familiar with web2py internals, so I would appreciate a bit of help from somebody more experienced. Once this is done, the actual packaging will be quite simple. Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
You can do this.
1) move web2py/*.py and web2py/gluon somewhere in PYTHONPATH (/
somewhere)
3) create a /var/web2py/
4) create a /etc/web2py/
move applications and deposit under /var/web2py
move options_std.py under /etc/web2py and EDIT as follow:
import socket
import os
ip = '127.0.0.1'
port = 8000
password = 'recycle' # ## recycle means use the previous
password
pid_filename = '/var/web2py/httpserver.pid'
log_filename = '/var/web2py/httpserver.log'
profiler_filename = None
ssl_certificate = '' # ## path to certificate
file
ssl_private_key = '' # ## path to private key
file
numthreads = 10
server_name = socket.gethostname()
request_queue_size = 5
timeout = 10
shutdown_timeout = 5
folder = os.getcwd()
extcron = None
nocron = None
create a startup script somewhere that does:
import os
import sys
### add gluon to sys.path and ...
os.chdir('/var/web2py')
import gluon.import_all
import gluon.widget
# Start Web2py and Web2py cron
service!
gluon.widget.start(cron=True)
This should be all it needs.
On Mar 22, 9:58 am, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote:
Hi Dima,
I agree on the fact that it is not an elegant solution.
But till now we have we have two possible solutions.
The First one is to create a user web2py and make it a member of www-data.
And put the application in the home folder which will work.
- No diskprotected multi-user system (or it has be programmed into web2py)
+ easy done with no modification to web2py
The second solution
With symlinks (see mail history)
+ multi-user and protected by file system
- possible securite leaks through web2py application data (Massimo?)
+ easy to update through apt
The read only problem could be fixed with the Group rights.
We could grant the www-data only write rights,
And the web2py user only read rights and member of www-data group.
This will make sure that users can't read each other files,
but still can write in the app dictory by its Group rights.
I hope to starting testing a few of those things on short notice.
But i'm quite busy at the moment, so it might take a few days.
And there are a few things more to discuss.
Coming in my following mail later this day.
Regards Mark Breedveld,
Ps. Massimo could you make a seperation between app and user data?
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: web2py@googlegroups.com [mailto:web...@googlegroups.com] Namens Dima
Barsky
Verzonden: zondag 21 maart 2010 17:32
Aan: web2py-users
Onderwerp: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
Hi Mark,
The idea with symlinks might work, although it's not very elegant.
Packaging individual applications is not easy either, there is another
problem I forgot to mention. Currently web2py assumes that it has
write permissions for the whole web2py directories (including
subdirectories). It creates various files inside the application's
directory - databases, error tickets, session-related files, and so
on. That would never work with a debian package, all runtime files
should be created under /var/run. In short, the web2py code should be
able to run from a read-only directory structure. I guess it'll take
a fair amount of work to achieve this, I don't feel confident enough
to do this on my own. Any volunteers?
Regards,
Dima.
On Mar 21, 3:08 pm, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote:
Thank you for your reply.
Aldo my first reply suggested that I wanted to seperate the admin app.
This not my intention.
With web2py-appname.deb was for verified user apps from web2py.com.
But still your interpretation of it ain't an wrong idee.
For securite and vps reasons/situations it's required to run in there
own directory.
So if possible, we could link the application to user directory
which means that every user that is running web2py will get a web2py
directory.
somethink like.
/home/user/web2py/
which contains a symlink to following directories
/usr/local/bin/web2py/gluon/
/usr/local/bin/web2py/scripts/
and the following files
/usr/local/bin/web2py/web2py.py
and all other user independent files /*massimo knows which files that
would be
create directory
/home/user/web2py/application
put a symlink to
/usr/local/bin/web2py/application/admin/
then put under
/home/user/web2py/
parameters_8000.py
Then create a start up entry for that user.
There are a few problems with this plan.
Does every user has his own web2py?
Has web2py problems with symlinks?
Is the symlink a real bottleneck for web2py and should there be a
hardlink?
Are the directories accoording the ubuntu guidlines?
I fairly interested in your opinion.
regards Mark Breedveld,
On Mar 21, 1:15 pm, Dima Barsky d...@debian.org wrote:
On Mar 20, 5:01 pm, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote:
The web2py community is searching help ondebian/ ubuntu packaging.
The are concrete plans to deploy web2py as Turnkey Appliance.
Mark,
I'll see what I can do, although
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
Hi Mark, The First one is to create a user web2py and make it a member of www-data. And put the application in the home folder which will work. No, that would not work at all. Applications are not allowed to install anything under /home. In fact, the whole /home directory does not have to exist on a debian system (although it does exist on most of them). The second solution With symlinks (see mail history) + multi-user and protected by file system - possible securite leaks through web2py application data (Massimo?) + easy to update through apt That sounds feasible, but only for those cases where the users start their own applications from their home directories. The read only problem could be fixed with the Group rights. We could grant the www-data only write rights, I'm afraid that would not work either. First of all, it violates the packaging guidelines, so this package would never be accepted in Debian. There is a reason for those guidelines - the /usr directory might be mounted via NFS in a readonly mode, so that even the local root user is not allowed to write into it. I'm sorry, but I don't see any other way forward rather than to do a clean separation between the code and the runtime data. Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
Hi Massimo,
That sounds like a plan to me. There is only one problem left: I don't
think that putting application code under /var is a good idea. I'll
have to check the packaging manual, but my gut feeling is that all
python code must go under /usr. The same logic applies as before - /
usr might be shared across several machines, /var is not shared.
How difficult would it be to allow each application to have a config
file which specifies where the runtime files should be stored? That
would be so much cleaner..
Regards,
Dima.
On Mar 22, 3:17 pm, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote:
You can do this.
1) move web2py/*.py and web2py/gluon somewhere in PYTHONPATH (/
somewhere)
3) create a /var/web2py/
4) create a /etc/web2py/
move applications and deposit under /var/web2py
move options_std.py under /etc/web2py and EDIT as follow:
import socket
import os
ip = '127.0.0.1'
port = 8000
password = 'recycle' # ## recycle means use the previous
password
pid_filename = '/var/web2py/httpserver.pid'
log_filename = '/var/web2py/httpserver.log'
profiler_filename = None
ssl_certificate = '' # ## path to certificate
file
ssl_private_key = '' # ## path to private key
file
numthreads = 10
server_name = socket.gethostname()
request_queue_size = 5
timeout = 10
shutdown_timeout = 5
folder = os.getcwd()
extcron = None
nocron = None
create a startup script somewhere that does:
import os
import sys
### add gluon to sys.path and ...
os.chdir('/var/web2py')
import gluon.import_all
import gluon.widget
# Start Web2py and Web2py cron
service!
gluon.widget.start(cron=True)
This should be all it needs.
On Mar 22, 9:58 am, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote:
Hi Dima,
I agree on the fact that it is not an elegant solution.
But till now we have we have two possible solutions.
The First one is to create a user web2py and make it a member of www-data.
And put the application in the home folder which will work.
- No diskprotected multi-user system (or it has be programmed into web2py)
+ easy done with no modification to web2py
The second solution
With symlinks (see mail history)
+ multi-user and protected by file system
- possible securite leaks through web2py application data (Massimo?)
+ easy to update through apt
The read only problem could be fixed with the Group rights.
We could grant the www-data only write rights,
And the web2py user only read rights and member of www-data group.
This will make sure that users can't read each other files,
but still can write in the app dictory by its Group rights.
I hope to starting testing a few of those things on short notice.
But i'm quite busy at the moment, so it might take a few days.
And there are a few things more to discuss.
Coming in my following mail later this day.
Regards Mark Breedveld,
Ps. Massimo could you make a seperation between app and user data?
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: web2py@googlegroups.com [mailto:web...@googlegroups.com] Namens Dima
Barsky
Verzonden: zondag 21 maart 2010 17:32
Aan: web2py-users
Onderwerp: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
Hi Mark,
The idea with symlinks might work, although it's not very elegant.
Packaging individual applications is not easy either, there is another
problem I forgot to mention. Currently web2py assumes that it has
write permissions for the whole web2py directories (including
subdirectories). It creates various files inside the application's
directory - databases, error tickets, session-related files, and so
on. That would never work with a debian package, all runtime files
should be created under /var/run. In short, the web2py code should be
able to run from a read-only directory structure. I guess it'll take
a fair amount of work to achieve this, I don't feel confident enough
to do this on my own. Any volunteers?
Regards,
Dima.
On Mar 21, 3:08 pm, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote:
Thank you for your reply.
Aldo my first reply suggested that I wanted to seperate the admin app.
This not my intention.
With web2py-appname.deb was for verified user apps from web2py.com.
But still your interpretation of it ain't an wrong idee.
For securite and vps reasons/situations it's required to run in there
own directory.
So if possible, we could link the application to user directory
which means that every user that is running web2py will get a web2py
directory.
somethink like.
/home/user/web2py/
which contains a symlink to following directories
/usr/local/bin/web2py/gluon/
/usr/local/bin/web2py/scripts/
and the following files
/usr/local/bin/web2py/web2py.py
and all other user independent files /*massimo knows which files that
would be
create directory
/home/user/web2py/application
put a symlink to
/usr/local/bin/web2py/application/admin/
then put under
/home/user/web2py
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
But the web2py app have to be modified via admin therefore I do not
think we can avoid putting them in var.
On Mar 22, 11:49 am, Dima Barsky d...@debian.org wrote:
Hi Massimo,
That sounds like a plan to me. There is only one problem left: I don't
think that putting application code under /var is a good idea. I'll
have to check the packaging manual, but my gut feeling is that all
python code must go under /usr. The same logic applies as before - /
usr might be shared across several machines, /var is not shared.
How difficult would it be to allow each application to have a config
file which specifies where the runtime files should be stored? That
would be so much cleaner..
Regards,
Dima.
On Mar 22, 3:17 pm, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote:
You can do this.
1) move web2py/*.py and web2py/gluon somewhere in PYTHONPATH (/
somewhere)
3) create a /var/web2py/
4) create a /etc/web2py/
move applications and deposit under /var/web2py
move options_std.py under /etc/web2py and EDIT as follow:
import socket
import os
ip = '127.0.0.1'
port = 8000
password = 'recycle' # ## recycle means use the previous
password
pid_filename = '/var/web2py/httpserver.pid'
log_filename = '/var/web2py/httpserver.log'
profiler_filename = None
ssl_certificate = '' # ## path to certificate
file
ssl_private_key = '' # ## path to private key
file
numthreads = 10
server_name = socket.gethostname()
request_queue_size = 5
timeout = 10
shutdown_timeout = 5
folder = os.getcwd()
extcron = None
nocron = None
create a startup script somewhere that does:
import os
import sys
### add gluon to sys.path and ...
os.chdir('/var/web2py')
import gluon.import_all
import gluon.widget
# Start Web2py and Web2py cron
service!
gluon.widget.start(cron=True)
This should be all it needs.
On Mar 22, 9:58 am, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote:
Hi Dima,
I agree on the fact that it is not an elegant solution.
But till now we have we have two possible solutions.
The First one is to create a user web2py and make it a member of www-data.
And put the application in the home folder which will work.
- No diskprotected multi-user system (or it has be programmed into web2py)
+ easy done with no modification to web2py
The second solution
With symlinks (see mail history)
+ multi-user and protected by file system
- possible securite leaks through web2py application data (Massimo?)
+ easy to update through apt
The read only problem could be fixed with the Group rights.
We could grant the www-data only write rights,
And the web2py user only read rights and member of www-data group.
This will make sure that users can't read each other files,
but still can write in the app dictory by its Group rights.
I hope to starting testing a few of those things on short notice.
But i'm quite busy at the moment, so it might take a few days.
And there are a few things more to discuss.
Coming in my following mail later this day.
Regards Mark Breedveld,
Ps. Massimo could you make a seperation between app and user data?
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: web2py@googlegroups.com [mailto:web...@googlegroups.com] Namens Dima
Barsky
Verzonden: zondag 21 maart 2010 17:32
Aan: web2py-users
Onderwerp: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
Hi Mark,
The idea with symlinks might work, although it's not very elegant.
Packaging individual applications is not easy either, there is another
problem I forgot to mention. Currently web2py assumes that it has
write permissions for the whole web2py directories (including
subdirectories). It creates various files inside the application's
directory - databases, error tickets, session-related files, and so
on. That would never work with a debian package, all runtime files
should be created under /var/run. In short, the web2py code should be
able to run from a read-only directory structure. I guess it'll take
a fair amount of work to achieve this, I don't feel confident enough
to do this on my own. Any volunteers?
Regards,
Dima.
On Mar 21, 3:08 pm, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote:
Thank you for your reply.
Aldo my first reply suggested that I wanted to seperate the admin app.
This not my intention.
With web2py-appname.deb was for verified user apps from web2py.com.
But still your interpretation of it ain't an wrong idee.
For securite and vps reasons/situations it's required to run in there
own directory.
So if possible, we could link the application to user directory
which means that every user that is running web2py will get a web2py
directory.
somethink like.
/home/user/web2py/
which contains a symlink to following directories
/usr/local/bin/web2py/gluon/
/usr/local/bin/web2py/scripts/
and the following
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
But the web2py app have to be modified via admin therefore I do not think we can avoid putting them in var. I think we would have to disable this feature for pre-packaged applications. That makes sense to me - only the package manager should be allowed to change the content of a debian package. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
Re: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
There are two type of apps: the core, web2py itself applications that runs in the web2py environment. Those have to be editable. This is a hard case, since web2py is kind of an OS itself, this should be solved with /var. -- Kuba -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
On Mar 22, 5:33 pm, Kuba Kucharski kuba.kuchar...@gmail.com wrote: There are two type of apps: the core, web2py itself applications that runs in the web2py environment. Those have to be editable. This is a hard case, since web2py is kind of an OS itself, this should be solved with /var. Kuba, could you clarify please? Why do you think pre-packaged applications have to be editable? Debian is not unique in this respect, it is generally not a good idea to modify applications after they have been deployed. It makes bug reporting and investigation much more difficult, it makes the intrusion detection impossible.. should I continue? Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
RE: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
Hi everyone, Thought that it was possible to pre-compile applications in web2py. Never used it before, but I found it out on the website. We could consider pre-compiled applications as production applications. Which means they may not and cannot be edited. All non compiled application could be considers as source/development applications. Which may exist in the apt repo. All pre-compiled application should be in the /opt/ directory, If you define a web2py application as an extention of web2py. But there is also a say for a web2py app as indepent application, build on the os web2py. Which means it should be in the /usr dictory. The non pre-compiled applications, Should all be under /var/, because they change. Well I'm not an expert on this topic, but this is my first interpretation of the guidelines. Because we should design it prefect and then create work arounds. My excuse for putting things in a hurry. Regards, Mark Breedveld, -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: web2py@googlegroups.com [mailto:web...@googlegroups.com] Namens Dima Barsky Verzonden: maandag 22 maart 2010 18:55 Aan: web2py-users Onderwerp: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed! On Mar 22, 5:33 pm, Kuba Kucharski mailto:kuba.kuchar...@gmail.com kuba.kuchar...@gmail.com wrote: There are two type of apps: the core, web2py itself applications that runs in the web2py environment. Those have to be editable. This is a hard case, since web2py is kind of an OS itself, this should be solved with /var. Kuba, could you clarify please? Why do you think pre-packaged applications have to be editable? Debian is not unique in this respect, it is generally not a good idea to modify applications after they have been deployed. It makes bug reporting and investigation much more difficult, it makes the intrusion detection impossible.. should I continue? Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to mailto:web2py@googlegroups.com web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to mailto:web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
You can bytecode compile hem but you cannot break the deplyment mechanism. Even bytecode compiled apps must be under a writable applications, therefore under /vars/ On Mar 22, 1:20 pm, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote: Hi everyone, Thought that it was possible to pre-compile applications in web2py. Never used it before, but I found it out on the website. We could consider pre-compiled applications as production applications. Which means they may not and cannot be edited. All non compiled application could be considers as source/development applications. Which may exist in the apt repo. All pre-compiled application should be in the /opt/ directory, If you define a web2py application as an extention of web2py. But there is also a say for a web2py app as indepent application, build on the os web2py. Which means it should be in the /usr dictory. The non pre-compiled applications, Should all be under /var/, because they change. Well I'm not an expert on this topic, but this is my first interpretation of the guidelines. Because we should design it prefect and then create work arounds. My excuse for putting things in a hurry. Regards, Mark Breedveld, -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: web2py@googlegroups.com [mailto:web...@googlegroups.com] Namens Dima Barsky Verzonden: maandag 22 maart 2010 18:55 Aan: web2py-users Onderwerp: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed! On Mar 22, 5:33 pm, Kuba Kucharski mailto:kuba.kuchar...@gmail.com kuba.kuchar...@gmail.com wrote: There are two type of apps: the core, web2py itself applications that runs in the web2py environment. Those have to be editable. This is a hard case, since web2py is kind of an OS itself, this should be solved with /var. Kuba, could you clarify please? Why do you think pre-packaged applications have to be editable? Debian is not unique in this respect, it is generally not a good idea to modify applications after they have been deployed. It makes bug reporting and investigation much more difficult, it makes the intrusion detection impossible.. should I continue? Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to mailto:web2py@googlegroups.com web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to mailto:web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=enhttp://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
On Mar 22, 6:28 pm, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: You can bytecode compile hem but you cannot break the deplyment mechanism. Even bytecode compiled apps must be under a writable applications, therefore under /vars/ The *.pyc file are not treated as runtime data in Debian. All python packages are compiled at the installation time, the resulting files are stored in /usr/lib/pymodules/ and never change until the package is reinstalled. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
RE: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
Hi Massimo, I thought that would be. Because of the cache and sessions dir for example. But in order to stay close to the guidelines, (which is required for repo) We need to define the purpose of web2py application folder structure. But controllers/models/modules/views/cron are the core of a web2py application. And should formal be under /opt/or /usr/, right? (See the point of view in an earlier mail : extension/application) The /cache, /errors/,sessions, tests are true /var directories and are even created instantly when missing. Doubtful for me are /databases /static /languages, I believe that these should belong in the /var directory. Because language ain't static and database contains files which are create on database connection. Static could contain files which are dynamic from the app view, so I think a doubtful /var file. If Massimo or someone else can confirm this. Then I believe that Dima is able to define a directory structure for non compiled apps. With or without links. I suggest we first do the non compiled apps. So we can consider that as done. Before we continue to discuss the compiled apps, Regards Mark Breedveld, P.s. we could create our own apt-repo (like moovidia in its early day), but this should our last option... -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: web2py@googlegroups.com [mailto:web...@googlegroups.com] Namens mdipierro Verzonden: maandag 22 maart 2010 19:29 Aan: web2py-users Onderwerp: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed! You can bytecode compile hem but you cannot break the deplyment mechanism. Even bytecode compiled apps must be under a writable applications, therefore under /vars/ On Mar 22, 1:20 pm, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote: Hi everyone, Thought that it was possible to pre-compile applications in web2py. Never used it before, but I found it out on the website. We could consider pre-compiled applications as production applications. Which means they may not and cannot be edited. All non compiled application could be considers as source/development applications. Which may exist in the apt repo. All pre-compiled application should be in the /opt/ directory, If you define a web2py application as an extention of web2py. But there is also a say for a web2py app as indepent application, build on the os web2py. Which means it should be in the /usr dictory. The non pre-compiled applications, Should all be under /var/, because they change. Well I'm not an expert on this topic, but this is my first interpretation of the guidelines. Because we should design it prefect and then create work arounds. My excuse for putting things in a hurry. Regards, Mark Breedveld, -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: web2py@googlegroups.com [mailto:web...@googlegroups.com] Namens Dima Barsky Verzonden: maandag 22 maart 2010 18:55 Aan: web2py-users Onderwerp: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed! On Mar 22, 5:33 pm, Kuba Kucharski mailto:kuba.kuchar...@gmail.com kuba.kuchar...@gmail.com wrote: There are two type of apps: the core, web2py itself applications that runs in the web2py environment. Those have to be editable. This is a hard case, since web2py is kind of an OS itself, this should be solved with /var. Kuba, could you clarify please? Why do you think pre-packaged applications have to be editable? Debian is not unique in this respect, it is generally not a good idea to modify applications after they have been deployed. It makes bug reporting and investigation much more difficult, it makes the intrusion detection impossible.. should I continue? Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to mailto:web2py@googlegroups.com web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to mailto:web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=enhttp://groups.google.com/group/ web2py?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
Re: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
web2py application are higher level. Like php scripts in www directory. They are edtable. They are apps within web2py. They are isolated and independent. They sometimes contain sqlite data inside. web2py is about user-developers. So in some way applications are user data. Applying default security policy to such project is a nonsene IMHO. My opinion is the application folder should go to the home folder of the user which runs web2py. Like in Django /home/user/mycode.. -- Kuba -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
Any solutions that breaks the subfolder structure of a web2py app will break the mechanism for installing and packaging new applications. I do not see a way around it. Where would you put php files? I have seen them in /var/www/ Massimo On Mar 22, 2:31 pm, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote: Hi Massimo, I thought that would be. Because of the cache and sessions dir for example. But in order to stay close to the guidelines, (which is required for repo) We need to define the purpose of web2py application folder structure. But controllers/models/modules/views/cron are the core of a web2py application. And should formal be under /opt/or /usr/, right? (See the point of view in an earlier mail : extension/application) The /cache, /errors/,sessions, tests are true /var directories and are even created instantly when missing. Doubtful for me are /databases /static /languages, I believe that these should belong in the /var directory. Because language ain't static and database contains files which are create on database connection. Static could contain files which are dynamic from the app view, so I think a doubtful /var file. If Massimo or someone else can confirm this. Then I believe that Dima is able to define a directory structure for non compiled apps. With or without links. I suggest we first do the non compiled apps. So we can consider that as done. Before we continue to discuss the compiled apps, Regards Mark Breedveld, P.s. we could create our own apt-repo (like moovidia in its early day), but this should our last option... -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: web2py@googlegroups.com [mailto:web...@googlegroups.com] Namens mdipierro Verzonden: maandag 22 maart 2010 19:29 Aan: web2py-users Onderwerp: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed! You can bytecode compile hem but you cannot break the deplyment mechanism. Even bytecode compiled apps must be under a writable applications, therefore under /vars/ On Mar 22, 1:20 pm, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote: Hi everyone, Thought that it was possible to pre-compile applications in web2py. Never used it before, but I found it out on the website. We could consider pre-compiled applications as production applications. Which means they may not and cannot be edited. All non compiled application could be considers as source/development applications. Which may exist in the apt repo. All pre-compiled application should be in the /opt/ directory, If you define a web2py application as an extention of web2py. But there is also a say for a web2py app as indepent application, build on the os web2py. Which means it should be in the /usr dictory. The non pre-compiled applications, Should all be under /var/, because they change. Well I'm not an expert on this topic, but this is my first interpretation of the guidelines. Because we should design it prefect and then create work arounds. My excuse for putting things in a hurry. Regards, Mark Breedveld, -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: web2py@googlegroups.com [mailto:web...@googlegroups.com] Namens Dima Barsky Verzonden: maandag 22 maart 2010 18:55 Aan: web2py-users Onderwerp: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed! On Mar 22, 5:33 pm, Kuba Kucharski mailto:kuba.kuchar...@gmail.com kuba.kuchar...@gmail.com wrote: There are two type of apps: the core, web2py itself applications that runs in the web2py environment. Those have to be editable. This is a hard case, since web2py is kind of an OS itself, this should be solved with /var. Kuba, could you clarify please? Why do you think pre-packaged applications have to be editable? Debian is not unique in this respect, it is generally not a good idea to modify applications after they have been deployed. It makes bug reporting and investigation much more difficult, it makes the intrusion detection impossible.. should I continue? Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to mailto:web2py@googlegroups.com web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to mailto:web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=enhttp://groups.google.com/group/ web2py?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web
Re: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
yes, there may be no home in Debian, but the proper user always have some directory assigned in /etc/passwd mysql:x:116:122:MySQL Server,,,:/var/lib/mysql:/bin/false -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
web2py should run as www-data it is most likely to be used with apache. On Mar 22, 3:15 pm, Kuba Kucharski kuba.kuchar...@gmail.com wrote: yes, there may be no home in Debian, but the proper user always have some directory assigned in /etc/passwd mysql:x:116:122:MySQL Server,,,:/var/lib/mysql:/bin/false -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
Re: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
So /var/www.. -- Kuba -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
/var/www/web2py/applications/ ? On Mar 22, 3:24 pm, Kuba Kucharski kuba.kuchar...@gmail.com wrote: So /var/www.. -- Kuba -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
RE: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
Hi everyone, I agree that it must become /var/web2py/applications, because the hole application is dynamic, except for the gluon folder. Which could be under the py path. I heard that is possible to cluster web2py by putting it on a central server. And start it through a share on another server. To keep this easily be possible it recommended to keep the data of a web2py application together. So it keep possible to mount applications from anywhere, but also to install them locally. This would become I also tested what happens when you remove the rights of the web2py user on one application. This will not prevent webserver to run, but it cannot execute that app. So we could separate web2py applications from several user by their rights. In order to run those applications we execute a instance under group www-data, But as the application owner. This is possible for wsgi, but it has some difficulties for a standalone execution. Because every user will need its own port. Summary - The application under /var/web2py - Except for gluon which comes in the python path (if possible) - Except for /etc/web2py/options_std.py - Applications are by default owned by www-data user and group - except user depend applications which have themselves as owner - There is an deamon/start up entry for www-data on port 8000 Definitions - Web2py applications are for debian interpretation user data Which is allowed in the var directory. Open issue - Where to put web2py.py? //Because this aint user data, but the application/webserver - Who decides which package is allowed in the repo? We might contact them. I hope this is a right conclusion from all those mails Regards Mark Breedveld, -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: web2py@googlegroups.com [mailto:web...@googlegroups.com] Namens Kuba Kucharski Verzonden: maandag 22 maart 2010 21:24 Aan: web2py@googlegroups.com Onderwerp: Re: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed! So /var/www.. -- Kuba -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
- Where to put web2py.py? //Because this aint user data, but the application/webserver Do not know but web2py.py should be called by something like /etc/ init.d/web2py Why all your emails get blocked pending moderation? It only happens with your emails and I cannot figure out why. According to google gruous you are allowed to post yet your messages get stuck. If no manager is online your messages will not be posted. If the problem persists I will make you manager and we see how that works. Massimo On Mar 22, 4:33 pm, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote: Hi everyone, I agree that it must become /var/web2py/applications, because the hole application is dynamic, except for the gluon folder. Which could be under the py path. I heard that is possible to cluster web2py by putting it on a central server. And start it through a share on another server. To keep this easily be possible it recommended to keep the data of a web2py application together. So it keep possible to mount applications from anywhere, but also to install them locally. This would become I also tested what happens when you remove the rights of the web2py user on one application. This will not prevent webserver to run, but it cannot execute that app. So we could separate web2py applications from several user by their rights. In order to run those applications we execute a instance under group www-data, But as the application owner. This is possible for wsgi, but it has some difficulties for a standalone execution. Because every user will need its own port. Summary - The application under /var/web2py - Except for gluon which comes in the python path (if possible) - Except for /etc/web2py/options_std.py - Applications are by default owned by www-data user and group - except user depend applications which have themselves as owner - There is an deamon/start up entry for www-data on port 8000 Definitions - Web2py applications are for debian interpretation user data Which is allowed in the var directory. Open issue - Where to put web2py.py? //Because this aint user data, but the application/webserver - Who decides which package is allowed in the repo? We might contact them. I hope this is a right conclusion from all those mails Regards Mark Breedveld, -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: web2py@googlegroups.com [mailto:web...@googlegroups.com] Namens Kuba Kucharski Verzonden: maandag 22 maart 2010 21:24 Aan: web2py@googlegroups.com Onderwerp: Re: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed! So /var/www.. -- Kuba -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
RE: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
Ill used ms outlook as mailer, but I could return to webmail. If that is the problem. Mark -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: web2py@googlegroups.com [mailto:web...@googlegroups.com] Namens mdipierro Verzonden: maandag 22 maart 2010 22:54 Aan: web2py-users Onderwerp: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed! - Where to put web2py.py? //Because this aint user data, but the application/webserver Do not know but web2py.py should be called by something like /etc/ init.d/web2py Why all your emails get blocked pending moderation? It only happens with your emails and I cannot figure out why. According to google gruous you are allowed to post yet your messages get stuck. If no manager is online your messages will not be posted. If the problem persists I will make you manager and we see how that works. Massimo On Mar 22, 4:33 pm, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote: Hi everyone, I agree that it must become /var/web2py/applications, because the hole application is dynamic, except for the gluon folder. Which could be under the py path. I heard that is possible to cluster web2py by putting it on a central server. And start it through a share on another server. To keep this easily be possible it recommended to keep the data of a web2py application together. So it keep possible to mount applications from anywhere, but also to install them locally. This would become I also tested what happens when you remove the rights of the web2py user on one application. This will not prevent webserver to run, but it cannot execute that app. So we could separate web2py applications from several user by their rights. In order to run those applications we execute a instance under group www-data, But as the application owner. This is possible for wsgi, but it has some difficulties for a standalone execution. Because every user will need its own port. Summary - The application under /var/web2py - Except for gluon which comes in the python path (if possible) - Except for /etc/web2py/options_std.py - Applications are by default owned by www-data user and group - except user depend applications which have themselves as owner - There is an deamon/start up entry for www-data on port 8000 Definitions - Web2py applications are for debian interpretation user data Which is allowed in the var directory. Open issue - Where to put web2py.py? //Because this aint user data, but the application/webserver - Who decides which package is allowed in the repo? We might contact them. I hope this is a right conclusion from all those mails Regards Mark Breedveld, -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: web2py@googlegroups.com [mailto:web...@googlegroups.com] Namens Kuba Kucharski Verzonden: maandag 22 maart 2010 21:24 Aan: web2py@googlegroups.com Onderwerp: Re: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed! So /var/www.. -- Kuba -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
This one was blocked too. google somehow thinks this is spam even if you are not moderated. On Mar 22, 5:02 pm, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote: Ill used ms outlook as mailer, but I could return to webmail. If that is the problem. Mark -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: web2py@googlegroups.com [mailto:web...@googlegroups.com] Namens mdipierro Verzonden: maandag 22 maart 2010 22:54 Aan: web2py-users Onderwerp: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed! - Where to put web2py.py? //Because this aint user data, but the application/webserver Do not know but web2py.py should be called by something like /etc/ init.d/web2py Why all your emails get blocked pending moderation? It only happens with your emails and I cannot figure out why. According to google gruous you are allowed to post yet your messages get stuck. If no manager is online your messages will not be posted. If the problem persists I will make you manager and we see how that works. Massimo On Mar 22, 4:33 pm, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote: Hi everyone, I agree that it must become /var/web2py/applications, because the hole application is dynamic, except for the gluon folder. Which could be under the py path. I heard that is possible to cluster web2py by putting it on a central server. And start it through a share on another server. To keep this easily be possible it recommended to keep the data of a web2py application together. So it keep possible to mount applications from anywhere, but also to install them locally. This would become I also tested what happens when you remove the rights of the web2py user on one application. This will not prevent webserver to run, but it cannot execute that app. So we could separate web2py applications from several user by their rights. In order to run those applications we execute a instance under group www-data, But as the application owner. This is possible for wsgi, but it has some difficulties for a standalone execution. Because every user will need its own port. Summary - The application under /var/web2py - Except for gluon which comes in the python path (if possible) - Except for /etc/web2py/options_std.py - Applications are by default owned by www-data user and group - except user depend applications which have themselves as owner - There is an deamon/start up entry for www-data on port 8000 Definitions - Web2py applications are for debian interpretation user data Which is allowed in the var directory. Open issue - Where to put web2py.py? //Because this aint user data, but the application/webserver - Who decides which package is allowed in the repo? We might contact them. I hope this is a right conclusion from all those mails Regards Mark Breedveld, -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: web2py@googlegroups.com [mailto:web...@googlegroups.com] Namens Kuba Kucharski Verzonden: maandag 22 maart 2010 21:24 Aan: web2py@googlegroups.com Onderwerp: Re: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed! So /var/www.. -- Kuba -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
Where would you put php files? I have seen them in /var/www/ Massimo, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but any script you might've seen in /var/ www was not under Debian package control, it was installed there manually by the administrator. All php files are also installed under / usr. If you try to create a package with script in /var most likely it will not be accepted into Debian for the reasons I mentioned earlier. I don't see any other way to make a clean package rather than put the code and the runtime data into different directories. I still don't understand, what's wrong with a config file for each application? This file would say whether the application is editable, and where it's runtime files should be located. It the absense of config file, it will default to the current layout, so the backward compatibility is preserved. Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
Hi Mark, Summary - The application under /var/web2py I disagree. Only the runtime data should go to /var, the code should stay under /usr (and it should be immutable). I presume we are still talking about pre-packaged applications, right? Nothing will stop individual users from starting their own web2py instances with any directory layout they want. I'm not the final authority on this matter, and I might be wrong with my interpretation of the packaging guidelines. You can try asking for advice on the debian-devel mailing list, but I think you'll hear the same arguments from other debian developers as you've heard from me. You could try convincing the debian community that this package is important enough to make an exception from the rules. Good luck with that. Again, I don't think this problem is specific to Debian. All distributions try to separate code from runtime data, only some of them are stricter than the others. Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
The main feature of web2py is that appliances are data and are treated as such. Consider a CMS app that wants to install, for example, a plugin. A plugin contains code and needs to be installable at runtime. The plugin may also modify other application files (such as replace a layout or a model). This is the main distinctive feature of web2py vs other framework. This is what makes is work smoothly. I would not oppose to an external mechanism to locks/unlock *.py and *.html files for a certain app so that they cannot be modified by the www-data user while in production but one cannot break the internal directory structure of the apps without crippling it. Massimo On Mar 22, 6:55 pm, Dima Barsky d...@debian.org wrote: Hi Mark, Summary - The application under /var/web2py I disagree. Only the runtime data should go to /var, the code should stay under /usr (and it should be immutable). I presume we are still talking about pre-packaged applications, right? Nothing will stop individual users from starting their own web2py instances with any directory layout they want. I'm not the final authority on this matter, and I might be wrong with my interpretation of the packaging guidelines. You can try asking for advice on the debian-devel mailing list, but I think you'll hear the same arguments from other debian developers as you've heard from me. You could try convincing the debian community that this package is important enough to make an exception from the rules. Good luck with that. Again, I don't think this problem is specific to Debian. All distributions try to separate code from runtime data, only some of them are stricter than the others. Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 10:01:43AM -0700, Mark Breedveld wrote: The web2py community is searching help on debian / ubuntu packaging. Mark, I'll see what I can do, but it's not that straightforward. There is no clear separation in web2py between the user code and the library code. Take, for example, the admin app: it is located under te applications directory (where the user code resides), but it is essentially part of the core, as web2py refuses to start without it. I would say the first step should be to patch web2py to move the applications dir out of the main dir. I'm not sure what's the best way to do this, maybe we can put the list of application directories into an environment variable (something like WEB2PY_APPS_PATH). When web2py receives a request for application X it should look for dir/X for every dir in WEB2PY_APPS_PATH. This would allow us to keep applications/admin in the core package, but give the users the possibility to have their own application directories. I'll give it a go, but I'm not very familiar with web2py internals, so I would appreciate a bit of help from somebody more experienced. Once this is done, the actual packaging will be quite simple. Regards, Dima. P.S. I tried to post this messages via the Google groups web interface, but it did not come through for some reason. Don't be surprised if you get two copies. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
On Mar 20, 5:01 pm, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote: The web2py community is searching help on debian / ubuntu packaging. The are concrete plans to deploy web2py as Turnkey Appliance. Mark, I'll see what I can do, although it might be not straightforward. There is no clear separation in web2py between the library code and the user code. Take, for example, the admin application: it is located under the applications directory nearby the user code, but it's really part of the core, as web2py refuses to start without it. I would say the first step should be to patch web2py to allow the user code to be located somewhere else, not in the web2py directory, which is currently not possible. I'll give it a go, but I'm not very familiar with web2py internals, so I would appreciate a bit of help from somebody more experienced. Once this is done, the actual packaging will be quite simple. Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
Thank you for your reply. Aldo my first reply suggested that I wanted to seperate the admin app. This not my intention. With web2py-appname.deb was for verified user apps from web2py.com. But still your interpretation of it ain't an wrong idee. For securite and vps reasons/situations it's required to run in there own directory. So if possible, we could link the application to user directory which means that every user that is running web2py will get a web2py directory. somethink like. /home/user/web2py/ which contains a symlink to following directories /usr/local/bin/web2py/gluon/ /usr/local/bin/web2py/scripts/ and the following files /usr/local/bin/web2py/web2py.py and all other user independent files /*massimo knows which files that would be create directory /home/user/web2py/application put a symlink to /usr/local/bin/web2py/application/admin/ then put under /home/user/web2py/ parameters_8000.py Then create a start up entry for that user. There are a few problems with this plan. Does every user has his own web2py? Has web2py problems with symlinks? Is the symlink a real bottleneck for web2py and should there be a hardlink? Are the directories accoording the ubuntu guidlines? I fairly interested in your opinion. regards Mark Breedveld, On Mar 21, 1:15 pm, Dima Barsky d...@debian.org wrote: On Mar 20, 5:01 pm, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote: The web2py community is searching help ondebian/ ubuntu packaging. The are concrete plans to deploy web2py as Turnkey Appliance. Mark, I'll see what I can do, although it might be not straightforward. There is no clear separation in web2py between the library code and the user code. Take, for example, the admin application: it is located under the applications directory nearby the user code, but it's really part of the core, as web2py refuses to start without it. I would say the first step should be to patch web2py to allow the user code to be located somewhere else, not in the web2py directory, which is currently not possible. I'll give it a go, but I'm not very familiar with web2py internals, so I would appreciate a bit of help from somebody more experienced. Once this is done, the actual packaging will be quite simple. Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
On Mar 21, 2:46 pm, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: This would break automatic updates Of course it will. The only way to update a debian package is through the debian packaging mechanism, i.e, apt-get, aptitude, synaptic, etc. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
Hi Mark, The idea with symlinks might work, although it's not very elegant. Packaging individual applications is not easy either, there is another problem I forgot to mention. Currently web2py assumes that it has write permissions for the whole web2py directories (including subdirectories). It creates various files inside the application's directory - databases, error tickets, session-related files, and so on. That would never work with a debian package, all runtime files should be created under /var/run. In short, the web2py code should be able to run from a read-only directory structure. I guess it'll take a fair amount of work to achieve this, I don't feel confident enough to do this on my own. Any volunteers? Regards, Dima. On Mar 21, 3:08 pm, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote: Thank you for your reply. Aldo my first reply suggested that I wanted to seperate the admin app. This not my intention. With web2py-appname.deb was for verified user apps from web2py.com. But still your interpretation of it ain't an wrong idee. For securite and vps reasons/situations it's required to run in there own directory. So if possible, we could link the application to user directory which means that every user that is running web2py will get a web2py directory. somethink like. /home/user/web2py/ which contains a symlink to following directories /usr/local/bin/web2py/gluon/ /usr/local/bin/web2py/scripts/ and the following files /usr/local/bin/web2py/web2py.py and all other user independent files /*massimo knows which files that would be create directory /home/user/web2py/application put a symlink to /usr/local/bin/web2py/application/admin/ then put under /home/user/web2py/ parameters_8000.py Then create a start up entry for that user. There are a few problems with this plan. Does every user has his own web2py? Has web2py problems with symlinks? Is the symlink a real bottleneck for web2py and should there be a hardlink? Are the directories accoording the ubuntu guidlines? I fairly interested in your opinion. regards Mark Breedveld, On Mar 21, 1:15 pm, Dima Barsky d...@debian.org wrote: On Mar 20, 5:01 pm, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote: The web2py community is searching help ondebian/ ubuntu packaging. The are concrete plans to deploy web2py as Turnkey Appliance. Mark, I'll see what I can do, although it might be not straightforward. There is no clear separation in web2py between the library code and the user code. Take, for example, the admin application: it is located under the applications directory nearby the user code, but it's really part of the core, as web2py refuses to start without it. I would say the first step should be to patch web2py to allow the user code to be located somewhere else, not in the web2py directory, which is currently not possible. I'll give it a go, but I'm not very familiar with web2py internals, so I would appreciate a bit of help from somebody more experienced. Once this is done, the actual packaging will be quite simple. Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
Re: [web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
How would you propose web2py to write sql.log, or its .table files used in migrations for that matter? -Thadeus On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Dima Barsky d...@debian.org wrote: kaging individual applications is not easy either, there is another problem I forgot to mention. Currently web2py assu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
[web2py] Re: Debian / Ubuntu packager needed!
Is there anything in the debian packaging mechanism that is inconsistent with the current web2py folder structure? As I see it, this just a matter of choosing where to put the files (I say /home/www-data/web2py). In principle it is possible to separate applications. This cannot cohexist with automatic updates. If we have a debian distribution mechanism users are likely to update using that. All you need to separate applications is: 1) install gluon in python site-packahes 2) install applications somewhere else (/somewhere/ 3) write a startup script (like web2py.py) that runs from /somewhere/ and has pytho site-packages in path. Massimo On Mar 21, 11:32 am, Dima Barsky d...@debian.org wrote: Hi Mark, The idea with symlinks might work, although it's not very elegant. Packaging individual applications is not easy either, there is another problem I forgot to mention. Currently web2py assumes that it has write permissions for the whole web2py directories (including subdirectories). It creates various files inside the application's directory - databases, error tickets, session-related files, and so on. That would never work with a debian package, all runtime files should be created under /var/run. In short, the web2py code should be able to run from a read-only directory structure. I guess it'll take a fair amount of work to achieve this, I don't feel confident enough to do this on my own. Any volunteers? Regards, Dima. On Mar 21, 3:08 pm, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote: Thank you for your reply. Aldo my first reply suggested that I wanted to seperate the admin app. This not my intention. With web2py-appname.deb was for verified user apps from web2py.com. But still your interpretation of it ain't an wrong idee. For securite and vps reasons/situations it's required to run in there own directory. So if possible, we could link the application to user directory which means that every user that is running web2py will get a web2py directory. somethink like. /home/user/web2py/ which contains a symlink to following directories /usr/local/bin/web2py/gluon/ /usr/local/bin/web2py/scripts/ and the following files /usr/local/bin/web2py/web2py.py and all other user independent files /*massimo knows which files that would be create directory /home/user/web2py/application put a symlink to /usr/local/bin/web2py/application/admin/ then put under /home/user/web2py/ parameters_8000.py Then create a start up entry for that user. There are a few problems with this plan. Does every user has his own web2py? Has web2py problems with symlinks? Is the symlink a real bottleneck for web2py and should there be a hardlink? Are the directories accoording the ubuntu guidlines? I fairly interested in your opinion. regards Mark Breedveld, On Mar 21, 1:15 pm, Dima Barsky d...@debian.org wrote: On Mar 20, 5:01 pm, Mark Breedveld m.breedv...@solcon.nl wrote: The web2py community is searching help ondebian/ ubuntu packaging. The are concrete plans to deploy web2py as Turnkey Appliance. Mark, I'll see what I can do, although it might be not straightforward. There is no clear separation in web2py between the library code and the user code. Take, for example, the admin application: it is located under the applications directory nearby the user code, but it's really part of the core, as web2py refuses to start without it. I would say the first step should be to patch web2py to allow the user code to be located somewhere else, not in the web2py directory, which is currently not possible. I'll give it a go, but I'm not very familiar with web2py internals, so I would appreciate a bit of help from somebody more experienced. Once this is done, the actual packaging will be quite simple. Regards, Dima. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups web2py-users group. To post to this group, send email to web...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to web2py+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en.
