Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Dear Leila Le 02/12/2017 à 21:48, Leila Zia a écrit : [I apologize for the longish response, and I will do what I can to take the rest of this offlist as needed. I just see a couple of places where I need to add more explanation.] Then I feel somewhat bond to respond too. But too make it

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Leila Zia, 02/12/2017 22:48: ​(​Side-note. We should take this part offline but for the record: I couldn't find a place where transparency was listed as an agreed upon and shared value of our movement as a whole. There are subgroups that consider it a core value or one of the guiding

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

[I apologize for the longish response, and I will do what I can to take the rest of this offlist as needed. I just see a couple of places where I need to add more explanation.] On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 10:31 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz < psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote: > Hi Leila, > > First,

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Dear Mathieu, On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 2:28 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz wrote: > Le 30/11/2017 à 10:13, Egon Willighagen a écrit : >> On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 10:45 PM, Mathieu Stumpf Guntz >> wrote: >> As having contributed to many

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Hi Leila, First, thank you for your clear analyze and suggestions. I won't respond extensively on list about this thread anymore for now. So to your reply, I will just make a single point more clear, and take the rest in consideration off list. Le 01/12/2017 à 22:49, Leila Zia a écrit :

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

[I'm writing in my personal capacity.] Hi Mathieu, On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 2:45 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz < psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote: > > > Le 01/12/2017 à 09:34, Markus Kroetzsch a écrit : > > Dear Mathieu, > > You are in an impossible position. Either you want to be an objective >

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Le 01/12/2017 à 14:06, Federico Leva (Nemo) a écrit : mathieu stumpf guntz, 01/12/2017 03:00: Actually, as far as I know, CC-by-sa-3.0-undeed states nothing about /suis generis/ rights I don't know what's -undeed, but 3.0-it and 4.0 do, which is for instance why ISTAT data can be imported in

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

mathieu stumpf guntz, 01/12/2017 03:00: Actually, as far as I know, CC-by-sa-3.0-undeed states nothing about /suis generis/ rights I don't know what's -undeed, but 3.0-it and 4.0 do, which is for instance why ISTAT data can be imported in Wikidata despite the less than ideal license

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

2017-12-01 9:34 GMT+01:00 Markus Kroetzsch : > Dear Mathieu, > > You are in an impossible position. Either you want to be an objective > researcher who tries to reconstruct past events as they happened, or you are > pursuing an agenda to criticise and change some

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Le 01/12/2017 à 09:34, Markus Kroetzsch a écrit : Dear Mathieu, You are in an impossible position. Either you want to be an objective researcher who tries to reconstruct past events as they happened, or you are pursuing an agenda to criticise and change some aspects of Wikidata. The way

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Dear Mathieu, You are in an impossible position. Either you want to be an objective researcher who tries to reconstruct past events as they happened, or you are pursuing an agenda to criticise and change some aspects of Wikidata. The way you do it, you are making yourself part of the debate

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Le 01/12/2017 à 05:51, John Erling Blad a écrit : My reference was to in-place discussions at WMDE, not the open meetings with Markus. Each week we had an open demo where Markus usually attended. As I remember the May-discussion, it was just a discussion in the office, there was a reference to

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

My reference was to in-place discussions at WMDE, not the open meetings with Markus. Each week we had an open demo where Markus usually attended. As I remember the May-discussion, it was just a discussion in the office, there was a reference to an earlier meeting. It is although easy to mix up old

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Hello Markus, First rest assured that any feedback provided will be integrated in the research project on the topic with proper references, including this email. It might not come before beginning of next week however, as I'm already more than fully booked until then. But once again it's on a

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Google and Wikidata, Mathieu as an AI responder is really awesome ! Curious, what language is he programmed in and how long did it take you guys to code him ? :) -Thad +ThadGuidry ___ Wikidata mailing list

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Hi James, Le 30/11/2017 à 23:54, James Heald a écrit : Mathieu, You don't seem to grasp the essential legal point, though several people in this thread have already tried to tell you. Copyright protects expression and creative originality.  It does not protect merely a collation of facts.

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Dear Mathieu, Your post demands my response since I was there when CC0 was first chosen (i.e., in the April meeting). I won't discuss your other claims here -- the discussions on the Wikidata list are already doing this, and I agree with Lydia that no shouting is necessary here.

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Thanks, Luca, Scott On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Luca Martinelli wrote: > Dear Scott, > > Wiktionary is CC BY-SA 3.0 as well, as all Wikimedia project are since > around 2007. > > Wikidata too is under CC BY-SA 3.0, for its non-data part (that is, > everything

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Dear Scott, Wiktionary is CC BY-SA 3.0 as well, as all Wikimedia project are since around 2007. Wikidata too is under CC BY-SA 3.0, for its non-data part (that is, everything but ns0, that is CC0). L. Il 30 nov 2017 23:53, "Scott MacLeod" ha scritto:

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Mathieu, You don't seem to grasp the essential legal point, though several people in this thread have already tried to tell you. Copyright protects expression and creative originality. It does not protect merely a collation of facts. The CC-SA licence is based on copyright. Anything that

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Mathieu, Lydia and All, As a further clarification: I just looked up Wikipedia's license at bottom here - https://www.wikipedia.org/ - and it says it's CC-3 ((CC BY-SA 3.0)) - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ - which allows for commercial use. Wikidata.org's is CC-0 ( CC0 1.0

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Le 30/11/2017 à 18:05, Yair Rand a écrit : Wikidata is not replacing Wiktionary. We will see that in the future. At least the proposed model allow to include most things that you might find in a Wiktionary article, plus it comes with all the benefit of a relational(-like) database. See

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

+1 Wikipedia and wiktionary themselves rely upon taking "facts, not they way they're stated" from sources. Vito 2017-11-30 18:05 GMT+01:00 Yair Rand : > Wikidata is not replacing Wiktionary. Wikidata did not replace Wikipedia, > and force all articles to be under CC-0.

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Wikidata is not replacing Wiktionary. Wikidata did not replace Wikipedia, and force all articles to be under CC-0. Structured data for Commons doesn't replace all Commons media with CC-0-licensed content. They didn't even set up parallel projects to hold CC-0 articles or media. There is no reason

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

> you might enumerate the position of each occurrence of a word in Harry Potter, that's all pure facts after all. But publishing an extensive set of that kind of factual statements would let anyone rebuild this books. This is just a representation of the artwork. And the artwork is protected as a

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Le 30/11/2017 à 10:13, Egon Willighagen a écrit : Dear Mathieu, On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 10:45 PM, Mathieu Stumpf Guntz > wrote: I forward here the message I initially posted on the Meta Tremendous Wiktionary User

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

On 30 November 2017 at 09:16, John Erling Blad wrote: > Sorry for the sprelling errojs Post of the year! However, please will *everyone* trim quoted material from their replies? The OP was extremely long, and I have now received several unnecessary duplicate copies of it. --

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Le 30/11/2017 à 11:45, Luca Martinelli a écrit : Il 30 nov 2017 09:55, "John Erling Blad" > ha scritto: Please keep this civil and on topic! I was just pointing out that CC0 wasn't forced down our throat by Silicon Valley's Fifth Column

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

This was added to the wrong email, sorry for that. On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 11:45 AM, Luca Martinelli wrote: > Il 30 nov 2017 09:55, "John Erling Blad" ha scritto: > > Please keep this civil and on topic! > > I was just pointing out that CC0 wasn't

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Le 30/11/2017 à 08:57, Luca Martinelli a écrit : I basically stopped reading this email after the first attack to Denny. That's sad to read, but I guess I must mostly blame my unfortunate formulations. I was there since the beginning, and I do recall the *extensive* discussion about what

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Hoi Gerard, Le 30/11/2017 à 08:46, Gerard Meijssen a écrit : Hoi, With all due respect. The way you treat Denny Vrandečić is a personal attack. If he feels so, then I apologize to him. I'm not in a quest against any one, I don't make the problem a question of person. Also, I initially where

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Il 30 nov 2017 09:55, "John Erling Blad" ha scritto: Please keep this civil and on topic! I was just pointing out that CC0 wasn't forced down our throat by Silicon Valley's Fifth Column supposed embodiment, that we actually discussed several alternatives (ODbL included, which

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Le 30/11/2017 à 02:00, Gregor Hagedorn a écrit : I fully support CC0. The question of commercial is misleading here, all of Wikipedia can by used commercially under its CC BY-SA licence. We can all have different opinions about Google, but not that commercial use includes most universities

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Saluton Nicolas, Le 30/11/2017 à 00:23, Nicolas VIGNERON a écrit : Mathieu, I know you and like you personally, that why I can say that this mail is clearly not your best argument. Despite saying multiple times this is not a manifesto nor against Wikidata, your mail seems clearly fuelled

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Sorry for the sprelling errojs, my post was written on a cellphone set to Norwegian. On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 9:55 AM, John Erling Blad wrote: > Please keep this civil and on topic! > > Licensing was discussed in the start of the project, as in start of > developing code for

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

A single property licensing scheme would allow storage of data, it might or might not allow reuse of the licensed data together with other data. Remember that all entries in the servers might be part of an mashup with all other entries. On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 9:55 AM, John Erling Blad

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Dear Mathieu, On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 10:45 PM, Mathieu Stumpf Guntz < psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote: > I forward here the message I initially posted on the Meta Tremendous > Wiktionary User Group talk page >

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Please keep this civil and on topic! Licensing was discussed in the start of the project, as in start of developing code for the project, and as I recall it the arguments for CC0 was valid and sound. That was long before Danny started working for Google. As I recall it was mention during first

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Oh, and by the way, ODbL was considered as a potential license, but I recall that that license could have been incompatible for reuse with CC BY-SA 3.0. It was actually a point of discussion with the Italian OpenStreetMap community back in 2013, when I first presented at the OSM-IT meeting the

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

I basically stopped reading this email after the first attack to Denny. I was there since the beginning, and I do recall the *extensive* discussion about what license to use. CC0 was chosen, among other things, because of the moronic EU rule about database rights, that CC 3.0 licenses didn't

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Hoi, With all due respect. The way you treat Denny Vrandečić is a personal attack. You dismiss his work and opinion by stating that he now works for Google implying that it must have been because of his influence on the decision on the use of the CC-0. This happened several years after the

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

I fully support CC0. The question of commercial is misleading here, all of Wikipedia can by used commercially under its CC BY-SA licence. We can all have different opinions about Google, but not that commercial use includes most universities and tax-exempt NGOs which have a business model and are

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Whatever happens behind the scenes (all those conspiracies), as long as Wikidata can be useful to everyone (yes, incl. Google, etc) then it does not matter. And I believe there are still a million things we can do to make Wikidata even more useful. -fariz On Nov 30, 2017 07:05, "Andra

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Here are some reasons for other resources to switch to CC0: https://www.wikipathways.org/index.php/WikiPathways:CC0_Announcement On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 10:45 PM, Mathieu Stumpf Guntz < psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote: > Saluton ĉiuj, > > I forward here the message I initially posted on

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

On November 29, 2017 at 3:33:47 PM, Scott MacLeod ( worlduniversityandsch...@gmail.com) wrote: Dear Lydia, Mathieu, Nicolas and All, I'm seeking a clarification here to "An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0" re the implications of CC-0

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Dear Lydia, Mathieu, Nicolas and All, I'm seeking a clarification here to "An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0" re the implications of CC-0 licensing for Wikidata say in comparison with CC-4 licensing. If CC-0 licensing allows for commercial u

Re: [Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Mathieu, I know you and like you personally, that why I can say that this mail is clearly not your best argument. Despite saying multiple times this is not a manifesto nor against Wikidata, your mail seems clearly fuelled with biases and misjudgements (especially Wikidata can't be « discontinued

[Wikidata] An answer to Lydia Pintscher regarding its considerations on Wikidata and CC-0

Saluton ĉiuj, I forward here the message I initially posted on the Meta Tremendous Wiktionary User Group talk page , because I'm interested to have a wider