I agree too.
Also note that property IDs are language-neutral, unlike english names
of templates, magic words, etc.
Il 13/07/2015 11:45, Jane Darnell ha scritto:
Me too. On the point of Wikipedia templates, I would like to remind
you that templates are a dramatically confusing mess on
Me too. On the point of Wikipedia templates, I would like to remind you
that templates are a dramatically confusing mess on Wikipedia, and lots of
those unique, localized names do not lend themselves to reuse, which is
why we have so many doubles and why the translation extension hasn't been
able
No we should not make the aliases unique, the reason aliases are
useful is because they are _not_ unique.
Add versioning to labels, that is the only real solution.
There are books on the topic, and also some dr thesis. I don't think
we should create anything ad hoc for this. Go for a proven
On 13.07.2015 16:01, John Erling Blad wrote:
No we should not make the aliases unique, the reason aliases are
useful is because they are _not_ unique.
Add versioning to labels, that is the only real solution.
Following this thread for a while, I still have no idea what this
solution is. Could
No we should not make the aliases unique, the reason aliases are
useful is because they are _not_ unique.
They are still usefil if they are not unique because search is fuzzy : if
you search “whatever” you'll see both “wathever one” AND “whatever2” in the
results …
2015-07-13 16:01 GMT+02:00
Am 13.07.2015 um 16:01 schrieb John Erling Blad:
No we should not make the aliases unique, the reason aliases are
useful is because they are _not_ unique.
Add versioning to labels, that is the only real solution.
We can do this once we have a mechanism in mediawiki that allows us to do this
2015-07-13 15:24 GMT+02:00 Daniel Kinzler daniel.kinz...@wikimedia.de:
Am 13.07.2015 um 13:00 schrieb Ricordisamoa:
I agree too.
Also note that property IDs are language-neutral, unlike english names of
templates, magic words, etc.
As I said: if there is broad conseus to only use P-numbers
Am 13.07.2015 um 13:00 schrieb Ricordisamoa:
I agree too.
Also note that property IDs are language-neutral, unlike english names of
templates, magic words, etc.
As I said: if there is broad conseus to only use P-numbers to refer to
properties, fine with me (note however that Lydia disagrees,
Hehe, to be fair with this argument you would have to provide a concensus
that people want aliases in templates :) That's also probably five people
on a bugtracker :)
2015-07-13 17:38 GMT+02:00 Daniel Kinzler daniel.kinz...@wikimedia.de:
Am 13.07.2015 um 17:22 schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
Hoi,
Am 13.07.2015 um 18:34 schrieb John Erling Blad:
You have versioning for templates, it is the last timestamp your
labels should refer to. You don't have to regenerate a previous
template, you just have to figure out which labels were valid at the
time the template was last saved. That
I agree and find the whole idea to be just ridiculously overly ambitious
for all the reasons Gerard has mentioned. In fact, I have to always click
on both QIDs and the PIDs in Wikidata just to make sure I have the proper
one, so why would I not do that from Wikipedia while developing a template?
Hoi,
You do not get it. There are many properties. Consequently the scale of
things is substantially different. It has been demonstrated that languages
will have homonyms and consequently it is NOT a good idea to use labels or
whatever you call them for properties. You can use them as long as
This is at the cost of renaming properties becoming a burden, si this
overall increase the maintenance cost. Understanding the comment part on
the other band is a matter of reading the d'oc, which is the l'East we can
wait for coming from a template editor. If web think of users using for
example
OT: French spelling checker?
Il 10/07/2015 16:56, Thomas Douillard ha scritto:
This is at the cost of renaming properties becoming a burden, si this
overall increase the maintenance cost. Understanding the comment part
on the other band is a matter of reading the d'oc, which is the l'East
Yep /o\ Getting used to my new phone
Not a problem was corrected into our problem in French, which is pretty
bad.
Le 10 juil. 2015 17:56, Ricordisamoa ricordisa...@openmailbox.org a
écrit :
OT: French spelling checker?
Il 10/07/2015 16:56, Thomas Douillard ha scritto:
This is at the
Hoi,
My understanding is that it is machines that need to uniquely know what a
property stands for. People are quite capable understanding what a
combination of a P and a Q mean. At that time there is no disambiguation.
With proper descriptions it is not hard at all to choose the right property
Am 09.07.2015 um 11:21 schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
Hoi,
If that is the use case, not much changes. We are talking software. When a
property is selected, the software does not need to show the property number
and
still store it. Nothing new here. It does not need to change the label either
when
Hoi,
If that is the use case, not much changes. We are talking software. When a
property is selected, the software does not need to show the property
number and still store it. Nothing new here. It does not need to change the
label either when Wikidata decides to change the label. A report may be
Daniel, Gerard, Lydia, and Wikidatans,
Long interested here in a Creative Commons' licensed Universal Translator
for all 7929+ languages (that is significantly CC Wikidata/Wikipedia-
informed between all its 288 languages) and that is extensible, and
especially with developing machine learning
On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 12:00 AM, Innovimax SARL innovi...@gmail.com wrote:
Lydia,
If I'm not wront the substituion scenario covers your requirements
{{#property:Pxxx}} ==SUBST BY
=={{#property:Pxxx|label=main label at the time of substitution}}
Am 08.07.2015 um 13:11 schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
Technically there is no problem disambiguating. People are really good
understanding what a property means based on context. Machines do not care for
labels (really)..
For items, that is exactly hgow it is. For properties however, that is not the
Another way to formulate this is that The labels are our name for the
property and we can force them to be unique, while the aliases are
other peoples names for similar properties and as we can't control
them they won't be unique.
On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 1:43 PM, John Erling Blad jeb...@gmail.com
Hoi,
I did appreciate that we are talking per language. When properties are to
be unique and you do this for computing reasons and do not accept that
languages are not their for your convenience, you will hit problems.
My question, you have always known that Wikidata is multi language.. What
We will get clashes between different ontologies, can't see how we can
avoid that. Our label should be unique, but not aliases. We use
aliases as a way to access something that we later must disambiguate.
We should not have a uniqueness constraint on aliases, it simply makes
no sense.
On Wed, Jul
Am 08.07.2015 um 09:45 schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
Hoi,
Given that we only support 280+ languages, I am fairly certain that this
restriction will bite us. I strongly urge you to allow for it but monitor for
it
and see what can be done.
Property labels are unique per language, not globally.
On 8 July 2015 at 00:27, Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de wrote:
Those need to be fixed before we can enable the feature.
There is a bug.
I have tried to make some changes to en aliases, but cannot save
them, because there is a duplicate alias in some other language, which
I cannot
Hoi,
Given that we only support 280+ languages, I am fairly certain that this
restriction will bite us. I strongly urge you to allow for it but monitor
for it and see what can be done.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 8 July 2015 at 03:42, Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de
wrote:
On Wed, Jul
On 8 July 2015 at 09:05, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
we can add parenthetical disambiguators
It also seems that some of these properties should be merged.
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
___
Wikidata
On 07/08/2015 03:42 AM, Lydia Pintscher wrote:
On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 3:07 AM, Gerard Meijssen
gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi,
It is not realistic from a language perspective to ask for labels to be
unique.
For items I totally agree. And that's not happening. But for
properties I'd hope
Am 08.07.2015 um 14:13 schrieb John Erling Blad:
What you want is closer to a redirect than an alias, while an alias is
closer to a disambiguation page.
Yes. The semantics of labels on properties is indeed different from labels on
items, and always has been. Property labels are defined to be
Am 08.07.2015 um 14:32 schrieb Magnus Manske:
Silly question: Why not leave the system as it is (allowing for non-unique
aliases), but do some (reasonable) cleanup, then warn Wikipedia editors when
they use a non-unique alias? Like using references without the {{reflist}}?
If aliases are not
I already said that on project chat, but the discussion is going on here as
well, so ...
Is it possible to give to the parser function a substitution semantics ? If
a name or an alias is replaced by a Pid on the first expansion, maybe be a
html comment on the original string used to find the
Daniel Kinzler says Consider {{#property:date of birth}}. That's much
more readable than
{{#property:P569}}, right?
Yes, it is more readable, but is it really all worth the effort ?
Perhaps allow input with the {{#property:P569}}
but then after page is saved... Computer Magic Happens Here ...
Am 08.07.2015 um 17:34 schrieb John Erling Blad:
You asked for an example, end those are valid examples. It is even an
example that use one of the most used ontologies on the net. Other
examples from DCterms is coverage, which can be both temporal and
spatial. We have a bunch of properties
Am 08.07.2015 um 16:57 schrieb Magnus Manske:
If aliases are not unique, you cannot use them to refer to properties.
You can, if they are unique.
That's exactly what I said :)
For the few that would conflict, the user would see
an error, prompting him to chose a different alias.
You asked for an example, end those are valid examples. It is even an
example that use one of the most used ontologies on the net. Other
examples from DCterms is coverage, which can be both temporal and
spatial. We have a bunch of properties that can have an alias DCterms
coverage, a country for
2015-07-08 17:34 GMT+02:00 Daniel Kinzler daniel.kinz...@wikimedia.de:
I think it might be possible, but not easy, and potentially very
confusing. Why
would you prefer that solution?
Because of the property renaming problem. If unfortunately a property is
renamed and someone used the label
Am 08.07.2015 um 18:45 schrieb Thomas Douillard:
2015-07-08 17:34 GMT+02:00 Daniel Kinzler daniel.kinz...@wikimedia.de
mailto:daniel.kinz...@wikimedia.de:
I think it might be possible, but not easy, and potentially very
confusing. Why
would you prefer that solution?
Because of
The idea was readability and internationalization.
This is achievable by keeping as a comment the label or alias the user used
in the first place. I think for intl it's better to be able to share
templates beetween projects ;)
2015-07-08 22:00 GMT+02:00 Daniel Kinzler
Hey folks :)
Right now the property parser function on Wikipedia and other clients
only works with the label of the property. People are asking us to
make it also work with aliases. In order to do that labels and aliases
need to be unique across properties. There are unfortunately a number
of
Fixed for many items. Seems time to update that pages.
Also I tried to fix it for these two, but it seems that as multiple
languages have an issue of double aliases/labels, the software prevents me
from saving both pages.
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1451
Hoi,
It is not realistic from a language perspective to ask for labels to be
unique.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 8 July 2015 at 01:27, Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de
wrote:
Hey folks :)
Right now the property parser function on Wikipedia and other clients
only works with the label
On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 2:39 AM, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com wrote:
Fixed for many items. Seems time to update that pages.
It should be updating regularly.
Bene: Can you check if it still does?
Cheers
Lydia
--
Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
Product Manager for
Will there be a warning when critical aliases are being removed?
On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 09:28 Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de
wrote:
Hey folks :)
Right now the property parser function on Wikipedia and other clients
only works with the label of the property. People are asking us to
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