Hello all,
New here; first post. I'm a longtime Wikipedia user and recent first-time
editor. Had a rather discouraging incident with regard to my first article
on the site, rather an eye-opener as I've attempted to study up on how
things work -- or are supposed to work, and finding out that the
: Re: [WikiEN-l] Admin / experienced user flameout - how do we talk
people down off the ledge?
Frankly, I see that as unwarranted pessimism. The sets of people who
want to change things and people who want to cause trouble are not
identical, though there is a substantial intersection. Admins who
Jon Q wrote:
The site sounds so wonderful as you enter -- Come on in! Start writing!
Be bold! Break the rules! and you're heartened by the seeming generosity
of spirit. Until you actually encounter some experienced editors. The
problem here then becomes something I've seen over and again in
Fred Bauder wrote:
It is likely the reason he got into trouble was because he wasn't
confident that others would back him up, so he did it himself. Which is,
of course, the third rail. What is missing is the knowledge that
sometimes, even if you are right, others will not, for one reason or
Fred Bauder wrote:
It is likely the reason he got into trouble was because he wasn't
confident that others would back him up, so he did it himself. Which
is,
of course, the third rail. What is missing is the knowledge that
sometimes, even if you are right, others will not, for one reason or
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:32 PM, George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.comwrote:
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 7:58 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net
wrote:
On 14 July 2010 02:07, FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com wrote:
The expectations upon admins are the pivot point for that. See [[
User:FT2/RfA
Ryan Delaney wrote:
Somehow this thread became about RFA standards. What happened?
True. We seem to be missing the point that the trouble with the
Administrators Noticeboard is at least in part that it is a
noticeboard, i.e. not a process for which there is a charter, but an
unchartered
Fred
I failed my first try, and could have failed my second if I hadn't
made a serious effort to ameliorate a negative perception from taking
a stand earlier.
The edge of the knife that we must balance on is both being willing to
take stands, and be open to feedback from the community and
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 2:15 AM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote:
Fred
I failed my first try, and could have failed my second if I hadn't
made a serious effort to ameliorate a negative perception from taking
a stand earlier.
The edge of the knife that we must balance on is
The other side of that coin is that when there are systemic problems that
necessarily reduce in stress or even abusive treatment of administrators,
you ought to be identifying and correcting that. Right now, you have
exactly
such a situation. Working toward identifying and correcting
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote:
The other side of that coin is that when there are systemic problems that
necessarily reduce in stress or even abusive treatment of administrators,
you ought to be identifying and correcting that. Right now, you
Yes, we need to address the problems, not blame the victims and help
them
cope with nightmares.
Fred
What do you propose?
Personally, what I'm going to do is participate more on noticeboards.
Adapting that to a general solution would involve experienced
administrators paying more
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote:
Yes, we need to address the problems, not blame the victims and help
them
cope with nightmares.
Fred
What do you propose?
Personally, what I'm going to do is participate more on noticeboards.
Adapting
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 2:51 AM, Ian Woollard ian.wooll...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm pretty sure that the main solution to this is to make the wiki
experience better, not trying to specifically treat people that are
getting frustrated's experience better.
I agree. It works both ways. New editors,
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:25 AM, Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.comwrote:
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 7:48 AM, George Herbert
george.herb...@gmail.com wrote:
snip
I have had to walk away from recent changes repeatedly.
Picking up on the walking away bit.
There are, of course, those
The expectations upon admins are the pivot point for that. See [[
User:FT2/RfA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FT2/RfA]].
Any ideas how we can get somewhere like that?
FT2
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 11:55 PM, Ryan Delaney ryan.dela...@gmail.comwrote:
So to speak more generally, what I'm
On 14 July 2010 02:07, FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com wrote:
The expectations upon admins are the pivot point for that. See [[
User:FT2/RfA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FT2/RfA]].
Any ideas how we can get somewhere like that?
FT2
Well to start with you could chuck your requirements out of the
Frankly, I see that as unwarranted pessimism. The sets of people who
want to change things and people who want to cause trouble are not
identical, though there is a substantial intersection. Admins who have
the lack of judgement to try to force their desired change into policy
by using their
On 14 July 2010 02:07, FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com wrote:
The expectations upon admins are the pivot point for that. See [[
User:FT2/RfA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FT2/RfA]].
Any ideas how we can get somewhere like that?
FT2
Well to start with you could chuck your requirements out of
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 7:58 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote:
On 14 July 2010 02:07, FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com wrote:
The expectations upon admins are the pivot point for that. See [[
User:FT2/RfA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FT2/RfA]].
Any ideas how we can get somewhere like
on 7/11/10 3:29 PM, George Herbert at george.herb...@gmail.com wrote:
Admin Rodhullandemu just retired after being blocked for blocking
Malleus Fautorum to win a dispute
For reference:
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_notic
eboard#Block_review
On
On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Marc Riddell
michaeldavi...@comcast.net wrote:
Many, if not most, companies, major non-profit organizations and virtually
all government agencies have a Human Resources department...
Would this be a possibility for the Wikipedia Project?
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 12:29 PM, George Herbert
george.herb...@gmail.comwrote:
Admin Rodhullandemu just retired after being blocked for blocking
Malleus Fautorum to win a dispute
For reference:
I'm pretty sure that the main solution to this is to make the wiki
experience better, not trying to specifically treat people that are
getting frustrated's experience better.
--
-Ian Woollard
___
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To
Admin Rodhullandemu just retired after being blocked for blocking
Malleus Fautorum to win a dispute
For reference:
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#Block_review
On and off wiki I have mentioned before that we are really bad, as a
project, at
It is likely the reason he got into trouble was because he wasn't
confident that others would back him up, so he did it himself. Which is,
of course, the third rail. What is missing is the knowledge that
sometimes, even if you are right, others will not, for one reason or
another, not back you up
Yes, AN / ANI is part of the problem. The formal procedures of arb
com and the consideration by a small group of highly selected very
experienced people who devote almost their full wiki-time to it,
result after weeks or months of discussion at the most in desysop, a
one year block, and a topic
This particular situation is now the subject of a pending request for
arbitration, so I'll comment on that on-wiki (probably in the morning), but
my comments there may have some relevance to the broader issue being raised
here.
Newyorkbrad
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:50 PM, David Goodman
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